Home recording: -6db level for tracking?
bruce phipps
Normally, I aim for about -6dB as measured on n-Track's recording
level meter. My Windows Line In recording volume is set to 90%.
This gives me a bit of headroom if required. (16 bit recording).
But I noticed elsewhere that someone suggested miking up an unplugged
electric guitar to get an acoustic rhythm sound. I tried this with an
SM58 mic but could only manage -20dB peak even when turning the
channel preamp trim all the way up on my Yamaha MG10/2 mixer. This
level was therefore unusable.
Am I recording too hot or is -6dB a good ball park figure?
On a related point. When mixing, what is a good "ball park" level for
just the drums + bass mixed together to provide a "bed" for the song.
Again, -6dB, seems a good figure. The rest of the instruments & vocals
can then be piled on top of that.
Bruce
Adrian Clark
> What is a good recording level to aim for when tracking?
> Normally, I aim for about -6dB as measured on n-Track's recording
> level meter. My Windows Line In recording volume is set to 90%.
> This gives me a bit of headroom if required. (16 bit recording).
The headroom is important, as with digital recording, sneaking into the
red will introduce horrible digital clipping. Always use your ears,
though; the peak markers on your DAW's UI may err on the side of
caution. I use Pro Tools Lite, and that's definitely the case - I can
quite safely push the meters momentarily into the red without hearing
any ill effects.
On the other hand, you don't want the overall track level to be too low,
otherwise you won't be making full use of the available bits.
>
> But I noticed elsewhere that someone suggested miking up an unplugged
> electric guitar to get an acoustic rhythm sound. I tried this with an
> SM58 mic but could only manage -20dB peak even when turning the
> channel preamp trim all the way up on my Yamaha MG10/2 mixer.
Well, the SM58 is a dynamic mic, and they're designed to deal with high
volume signals. For the low volume of an unplugged electric, a condenser
mic might be a better choice.
> On a related point. When mixing, what is a good "ball park" level for
> just the drums + bass mixed together to provide a "bed" for the song.
> Again, -6dB, seems a good figure. The rest of the instruments & vocals
> can then be piled on top of that.
As long as you're not overloading the converters or underusing the bit
depth, any relative "...dB" level figures are pretty meaningless.
Concentrate on getting each track recorded with the best fidelity
possible... after all, you'll be adjusting the level, panning and eq for
every track when you mix the song.
If two hot tracks overload the mix buss when they're combined, reduce
the level of both of them (and, therefore, the level of the other
tracks, to preserve the relative levels in the mix).
Adrian
--
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Mich (at work)
"bruce phipps" <bruce_...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:27351d26.0307...@posting.google.com...
Hi,
I aim to hit peaks of -3db. But it's better to be safe than sorry.
It's almost, if not impossible to satisfactorily remove the digital noise
caused by clipping during that perfect take. A limiter in the recording
chain is obviously an option, but not one I use. Careful setting of you gain
structures should be sufficient.
My two pennies worth..
M.
--
Michael Peel
pe...@NOSPAMaccuread.com
pe...@NOSPAMbtinternet.co.uk
http://www.peelm.btinternet.co.uk
bruce phipps
> >
> > But I noticed elsewhere that someone suggested miking up an unplugged
> > electric guitar to get an acoustic rhythm sound. I tried this with an
> > SM58 mic but could only manage -20dB peak even when turning the
> > channel preamp trim all the way up on my Yamaha MG10/2 mixer.
>
> Well, the SM58 is a dynamic mic, and they're designed to deal with high
> volume signals. For the low volume of an unplugged electric, a condenser
> mic might be a better choice.
>
>
Even recording an acoustic via the SM58 gives very low recording
levels. Maybe I need to buy a condenser mic...
Bruce
David Morton
bruce_...@my-deja.com (bruce phipps) wrote:
> Even recording an acoustic via the SM58 gives very low recording
> levels. Maybe I need to buy a condenser mic...
While the SM58 isn't a particularly good choice for an acoustic guitar
(and a decent SD condenser would be better), lack of level should
definitely *not* be a problem. There's something else wrong here.
Adrian Clark
> Even recording an acoustic via the SM58 gives very low recording
> levels. Maybe I need to buy a condenser mic...
Hmm... that's strange. I've recorded an acoustic guitar successfully
with an SM57 (very similar to the 58), which suggests that your mic
preamp isn't pushing out enough gain. What are you using?
David Kilpatrick
Disagree - SM58 and similar mics have to be so close to acoustics, of
any type, that the sound become characterised by the mic placement. to
me, 3 inches from the strings is close and that's often too far away.
Condensor mics can be used from 2-3 feet for an entirely different
picture of acoustic guitar sound.
I don't think miking an electric with ANYTHING unplugged would work,
except for effect.
As for -6db etc, when you get to make your final CD-R cut, you find that
civilised recording levels leave you 6db short of commercial CD playing
volumes, so your home brewed CD sounds quiet in the changer. I record
acoustic solo guitar now as close to clipping as I can get on digital
systems (Roland VS-880EX and a Philips CD-RW audio CD recorder which
really attenuates the sound level - no matter what). Even then I have to
normalise UP on the Mac when mastering track levels.
David
Jose de las Heras
"David Morton" <dmo...@well.com> wrote in message
news:memo.2003072...@feynman.morton.org.uk...
I've recently used a SM57 to record my acoustic, it worked fine
level-wise...
I used it directly into an Akai DPS12 multitrack, and on another ocassion
directly into the computer's soundcard. No problem with levels.
Jose
--
Musha ring dum a doo dum a dah - www.mcnach.com
bruce phipps
> > Even recording an acoustic via the SM58 gives very low recording
> > levels. Maybe I need to buy a condenser mic...
>
> Hmm... that's strange. I've recorded an acoustic guitar successfully
> with an SM57 (very similar to the 58), which suggests that your mic
> preamp isn't pushing out enough gain. What are you using?
>
>
Mic preamps on Yamaha MG10/2 mixer, XLR input. SM58 on boom mike 1
inch away from hand-picked acoustic.
The XLR inputs on this mixer give a hot signal when I DI bass guitar.
Is the SM58 very sensitive re. direction? Maybe I need to turn the mic
around 90 degrees or something...Or use a plectrum/strum really
loudly.
Bruce
Adrian Clark
> Mic preamps on Yamaha MG10/2 mixer, XLR input. SM58 on boom mike 1
> inch away from hand-picked acoustic.
> The XLR inputs on this mixer give a hot signal when I DI bass guitar.
That's weird, then... I can't understand why you're getting such a weak
signal. As David says, the benefit of a condensor mic is that you can
get a good strong signal without being too close to the source, but if
you're putting the SM58 an inch away, you ought to be getting a
reasonable amount of signal.
Strange... anyone else suggest anything?
adrian
Steve Dix
Clark) wrote:
>bruce phipps <bruce_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
>> Mic preamps on Yamaha MG10/2 mixer, XLR input. SM58 on boom mike 1
>> inch away from hand-picked acoustic.
>> The XLR inputs on this mixer give a hot signal when I DI bass guitar.
>
>That's weird, then... I can't understand why you're getting such a weak
>signal. As David says, the benefit of a condensor mic is that you can
>get a good strong signal without being too close to the source, but if
>you're putting the SM58 an inch away, you ought to be getting a
>reasonable amount of signal.
>
>Strange... anyone else suggest anything?
>
>
>adrian
Duff capsule on the mic?
Phase cancellation due to a poor connection?
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bruce phipps
> >> inch away from hand-picked acoustic.
> >> The XLR inputs on this mixer give a hot signal when I DI bass guitar.
> >
> >That's weird, then... I can't understand why you're getting such a weak
> >signal. As David says, the benefit of a condensor mic is that you can
> >get a good strong signal without being too close to the source, but if
> >you're putting the SM58 an inch away, you ought to be getting a
> >reasonable amount of signal.
> >
> >Strange... anyone else suggest anything?
> >
> >
> >adrian
>
> Duff capsule on the mic?
>
> Phase cancellation due to a poor connection?
The Shure user manual states that I should be able to record holding
the mic 12 inches or so away (can't remember the exact figure). No
way can I do this. Mind you, I'm quietly spoken...but not whispering
Bob Harris.
*I'll recheck the XLR cable connection at the microphone end.
* I can't remember dropping the SM58, though they are supposeed to be
robust.
* Does phantom power zap a SM58? My DI box uses phantom power from the
mixer. Maybe I've inadvertently left it on.
Bruce
David Kilpatrick
bruce phipps wrote:
> * Does phantom power zap a SM58? My DI box uses phantom power from the
> mixer. Maybe I've inadvertently left it on.
>
Not if it's switched on after connecting - but I think if you push the
phantom button with everything up and running,
you can damage dynamic mics.
David
Steve White
<1fyjp7c.1frytaa1v2ogN%spag...@hotmail.com>...
>bruce phipps <bruce_...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>> Mic preamps on Yamaha MG10/2 mixer, XLR input. SM58 on boom mike 1
>> inch away from hand-picked acoustic.
>> The XLR inputs on this mixer give a hot signal when I DI bass guitar.
>
>That's weird, then... I can't understand why you're getting such a weak
>signal. As David says, the benefit of a condensor mic is that you can
>get a good strong signal without being too close to the source, but if
>you're putting the SM58 an inch away, you ought to be getting a
>reasonable amount of signal.
>
>Strange... anyone else suggest anything?
>adrian
You need to check each bit of kit and work out by a process of elimination
what might be wrong. If you have any level indicators on your mixer this
should quickly determine whether the mic, cable and mixer pre-amp are doing
their bit then you can work from there.
Are your soundcard settings definitely OK? Maybe you could plug something
else into the line in to check?
Cheers,
Steve W
bruce phipps
> what might be wrong. If you have any level indicators on your mixer this
> should quickly determine whether the mic, cable and mixer pre-amp are doing
> their bit then you can work from there.
Its not the XLR cable, I tried a substitute.
The mixer mic pre-amps works fine for bass/guitar DI.
Mixer channel fader at unity, master volume at unity. Preamp trim
*full on!*.
Hold 6 inches away from acoustic guitar and strum a few strings. Get a
level of -30dB max. The mic preamp should be clipping with these
settings, I would have thought.
So its either a loose connection on the SM58 or I have "zapped" the
SM58 with phantom power.
SM58 was bought brand new 3 weeks ago.
>
> Are your soundcard settings definitely OK? Maybe you could plug something
> else into the line in to check?
>
OK. I can record guitars etc. with good levels.
Bruce
Adrian Clark
> So its either a loose connection on the SM58 or I have "zapped" the
> SM58 with phantom power.
> SM58 was bought brand new 3 weeks ago.
It'll still be under guarantee - might be worth getting a replacement...
Adrian
David Morton
> The mic preamp should be clipping with these
> settings, I would have thought.
I agree. Whereabouts are you? You're welcome to the loan of a known-good
SM57 for a few days.
Mich (at work)
Hi Bruce,
You won't have damaged the mic by sticking 48v phantom through it. That's
how mixer manufacturers get away with applying phantom power globally to all
channels.
I've never know a 58 go down unless you've used it to hammer in a mail, and
even then, they usually work after.
Take it back and get the store to compare it against another 58.
cheers,
bruce phipps
> > The mic preamp should be clipping with these
> > settings, I would have thought.
>
> I agree. Whereabouts are you? You're welcome to the loan of a known-good
> SM57 for a few days.
Yorks. No problemo, though. I'll take it back to AoS in Sheffield on
Monday.
I'll either get a replacement or walk out of there with a red face
because I've been doing something fundamentally wrong.
As other people have mentioned, phantom power shouldn't blitz one of
theese mics.
Bruce
Jose de las Heras
"Mich (at work)" <pe...@NOSPAMaccuread.com> wrote in message
news:Do6Ua.88$Q6.8295@news1-hme0...
There was an advertisement showing an SM58 that used to belong to the band
Hole (Courtney Love's band), where she had kicked a 4x12" cab and fell onto
the mic. The mic look pretty bad... but they said "it still worked!". Does
anybody remember that? I might even have it in a magazine...
Jose