Amp not loud enough?

[JJ]

Hi guys. I'd appreciate some advice. I've recently got into a band with
a couple of mates and everything was going well -- until we got a
drummer. The trouble is, I have to put the volume of my amp (a 22-watt
1x12 Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb) so high to be heard over him that it
starts to break up so I no longer have a clean sound (before I was using
a Fulltone OCD pedal to switch between clean/distored sounds). I've
never been in a band before, or played with a drummer, so I'm not sure
what to do. Is the amp just not loud enough? Or is the drummer too loud?
Would getting a separate cab solve the problem? Is there some other way
to enable the amp to go louder before it breaks up?

[robertm...@gmail.com]

Hi, some ideas: -

I assume the amp is already off the floor (on a chair ect)?

Tried moving away from drummer?

Using another speaker cabinet which has multiple speakers (hence more cone area) will produce much more sound from the same amp.

I am not sure how efficient the speaker is in your amp is but I would expect there are other, more efficient, speakers that could be used as a replacement which will provide some increase in sound level but the change will be earth shattering.

When all lse fails mike up the amp and go back to using your pedal.

Robert

[robertm...@gmail.com]

Whoops I meant that the change will NOT be earth shattering, sorry

[George Weston]

Or get your drummer to watch this:
http://www.videojug.com/film/how-to-muffle-drums
The plastic rings are good. Our drummer uses them and he's a lot less
deafening than he was before he bought them!

George

[JNugent]

Another speaker (in an extra cab, natch) might well help, JJ. A similar
solution used to increase the apparent clean volume of the Carvin Nomad (1x12).

I've now given up using my Deluxe Reverb at jams - it's the Twin or nothing.

[ic]

"JJ" <j...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:j9b3ac$lua$1...@dont-email.me...

The trouble is, I have to put the volume of my amp (a 22-watt
> 1x12 Fender '65 Deluxe Reverb) so high to be heard over him that it starts
> to break up so I no longer have a clean sound (before I was using a
> Fulltone OCD pedal to switch between clean/distored sounds).

Low wattage amps are designed *not* to be particularly clean at lower volume
levels, so you're not deafened when getting satisfactory driven power stage
distortion at higher volume levels. OTOH to be twice as loud with the same
cab (assuming it could take the power, which it probably wouldn't for long)
would take 220w.

It's always a tricky one to get a good loud enough clean and dirty sounds
from one amp. My old band managed with a less powerful 2nd guitar amp
because the chord playing was acoustically louder than the single line 1st
guitar playing, but if you need loud clean single line sound you'll probably
need more amp power or more efficient speakers which can deliver more sound
level from your available watts.

You could always try an added extension speaker (or twin cab, depending on
your amp's available output sockets and impedences) and check the dB/w of
the speakers you use.
--

icarusi

[ic]

"JJ" <j...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:j9b3ac$lua$1...@dont-email.me...

> Or is the drummer too loud?

Not knowing the drummer, and giving hime the benefit of the doubt, I'd say
yes, but I may be wrong. IMO most bands are too loud. You can still *sound*
loud enough without actually being loud, some folk just have a preset idea
of how 'loud' should sound, and it does give a certain 'buzz' doing it, but
if you and/or the audience need to wear ear plugs to hear everything
adequately it's somewhat purpose defeating.
--

icarusi

[Roger Moss]

"JJ" <j...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:j9b3ac$lua$1...@dont-email.me...

Our own Trevor Ridney knows how to clean up Fender amps, but there are
limits.

Much depends on *how* loud the drummer is, but you've maybe reached that
stage where it makes sense to mic-up the backline into the PA (even a modest
one) and get used to working off some onstage monitoring. It takes a while,
and feels odd at first, but once you adjust you won't want to go back...

I once played to around 6000 people in 'a certain arena' with an 18-watt
Superchamp, so it's possible. And to further prove the point, before that I
had a 6w Champ modded with with a DI send from the pre-amp into the
frontline. You wouldn't believe the looks I got when I walked in with this
tucked under my arm, but it sounded jaw-droppingly mighty through the rig...
a fun game to play :0)

Plan B: you could suggest the drummer damps his kit. Which, of course, he
won't.

RM

[Stan Barr]

Seconded. Although my Cube 60 does fine at reasonable levels and I
can carry it! Us clean guitarists have a harder time than others,
few major amp manufacturers seem to cater for us. Anyone tried the
new Fender Steel King yet? I've read enthusiistic reviews.

--
Cheers,
Stan Barr plan.b .at. dsl .dot. pipex .dot. com

The future was never like this!

[Grant]

Sounds like the amp doesn't have clean headroom for your situation. More
efficient speaker or extension cab might give a noticeable improvement, but
you'll probably need a bigger amp or a second amp & stereo setup to cut
through. Alternative is mike it up & get monitors so you can hear it over
the drummer.

[JJ]

Hi JNugent. Is the twin just a higher powered version of the Deluxe
Reverb? If so, I'd consider selling my amp and getting a twin instead.
Really, I don't need crunch at low volume since I can use a pedal for
that. However, it seems I need clean at a higher volume than the Deluxe
Reverb can deliver (I'd also prefer not to buy a cab as it's something
else to lug around).

[JNugent]

On 09/11/2011 16:43, JJ wrote:
> On 08/11/2011 20:06, JNugent wrote:
>> On 08/11/2011 11:20, JJ wrote:
>>> Hi guys. I'd appreciate some advice. I've recently got into a band with a
>>> couple of mates and everything was going well -- until we got a
>>> drummer. The
>>> trouble is, I have to put the volume of my amp (a 22-watt 1x12 Fender '65
>>> Deluxe Reverb) so high to be heard over him that it starts to break up
>>> so I
>>> no longer have a clean sound (before I was using a Fulltone OCD pedal to
>>> switch between clean/distored sounds). I've never been in a band
>>> before, or
>>> played with a drummer, so I'm not sure what to do. Is the amp just not
>>> loud
>>> enough? Or is the drummer too loud? Would getting a separate cab solve
>>> the
>>> problem? Is there some other way to enable the amp to go louder before it
>>> breaks up?
>>
>> Another speaker (in an extra cab, natch) might well help, JJ. A similar
>> solution used to increase the apparent clean volume of the Carvin Nomad
>> (1x12).
>>
>> I've now given up using my Deluxe Reverb at jams - it's the Twin or
>> nothing.
>
> Hi JNugent. Is the twin just a higher powered version of the Deluxe Reverb?

You could see it like that. The Twin has more features (at the very least, it
will a "middle" tone control and a "bright" switch per channel, not found on
the DR), but all the classic Fender valve amps are basically similar to each
other.

Once you're used to that glassy, country-clean Fender sound, nothing else
will do (except maybe a high-end boutique implementation of the same thing).

> If so, I'd consider selling my amp and getting a twin instead.

Twin Reverbs (not counting vintage tweed variants) vary between 85w and 130w,
powered by 4 6L6 valves, and depending on the model. Usually with twin JB
Lansing or Eminence speakers. Weight on a par with a Vox Ac30 (65lbs plus),
so not a soft option for transport or lugging.

But... they are available cheap (seventies "master volume" and mid-80s "evil"
versions often fetch as little as £400 on UK eBay) and they are LOUD.

> Really, I
> don't need crunch at low volume since I can use a pedal for that. However, it
> seems I need clean at a higher volume than the Deluxe Reverb can deliver (I'd
> also prefer not to buy a cab as it's something else to lug around).

A DR and a smallish 1x12" cab might actually be easier to lug than a Twin is.
But you'd still be limited by the 22w output, even if an extra speaker gives
greater apparent volume (which it will).

There is also the Pro Reverb. Looks similar to the Twin, but uses 6L6 x 2 and
isn't as powerful and is JUST as heavy!

[JNugent]

On 09/11/2011 16:17, Stan Barr wrote:

> JNugent<jenni...@fastmail.fm> wrote:
>> JJ wrote:

>>> Hi guys. I'd appreciate some advice. I've recently got into a band with a
>>> couple of mates and everything was going well -- until we got a drummer. The
>>> trouble is, I have to put the volume of my amp (a 22-watt 1x12 Fender '65
>>> Deluxe Reverb) so high to be heard over him that it starts to break up so I
>>> no longer have a clean sound (before I was using a Fulltone OCD pedal to
>>> switch between clean/distored sounds). I've never been in a band before, or
>>> played with a drummer, so I'm not sure what to do. Is the amp just not loud
>>> enough? Or is the drummer too loud? Would getting a separate cab solve the
>>> problem? Is there some other way to enable the amp to go louder before it
>>> breaks up?

>> Another speaker (in an extra cab, natch) might well help, JJ. A similar
>> solution used to increase the apparent clean volume of the Carvin Nomad
>> (1x12).
>> I've now given up using my Deluxe Reverb at jams - it's the Twin or nothing.

> Seconded. Although my Cube 60 does fine at reasonable levels and I
> can carry it! Us clean guitarists have a harder time than others,
> few major amp manufacturers seem to cater for us. Anyone tried the
> new Fender Steel King yet? I've read enthusiistic reviews.

Fender Europe remaindered out the last examples of the previous model.

How much is the new one?

The Peavey Nashville is similar and is usually a fair bit cheaper.

[fivetrees]

Totally seconded.

Took me a long time to realise this point, back in "the day"...
Eventually I wound up playing with a drummer with whom I could rehearse,
in his living room, with the kids asleep on the next floor up. That
takes some skill - it's not just a question of propensity, it's a
question of control.

And I wound up with two small (1*12) combo amps, which I could carry,
one in each hand (nicely balanced) without getting a hernia.

Rather than getting into a volume arms race with your drummer, I suggest
trying what I did: I kept my small amps, and told the rest of the band
that my amps dictated how loud I could go, and if they couldn't hear me,
*they* were too loud. It worked fine, as they were grown-ups. (Could
have gone the other way, I guess ;).)

I also agree totally that most bands, even pro bands, are too loud.
Whether it's down to the musicians or the sound engineer, the answer is
the same: if the mix is wrong, you can either turn up the quiet
instrument(s), *or turn down the loud ones*. It's staggering how many
pro FoH sound engineers don't understand this second approach. I no
longer put up with having my hearing damaged; I walk.

Sxxx

[Roger Moss]

"fivetrees" <st...@NOSPAMTAfivetress.com> wrote in message
news:9tugdl...@mid.individual.net...

To which I'd add that I'm constantly surprised that drummers will generally
accept damping, padding, EQ, etc., in the studio, yet won't even damp the
kit in a rehearsal space (sigh).

Mention no names...

RM