Announcement: musical chord namer (with guitar interface)
jimi...@googlemail.com
I wrote this chord namer module for perl (available from CPAN if
you're interested), so then I also wrote a web interface to it that
allows you to input notes and it names the chord...
http://webu.co.uk/guitar-music/chord-namer.cgi
Excerpt of blurb:
"This musical chord namer was written using a module that I wrote
called Music::Chord::Namer and features a guitar interface to allow
you to directly input what you play and get the best name for your
chord. ... There is also a text box for you to enter the notes
manually if you play another instrument, for example a piano, and the
guitar interface is no good. Just type in the musical notes using
upper-case letters for the notes and a 'b' for flat or '#' for
sharp. ..."
Hope you like it.
Jimi
Pt
Nice program.
I like it.
Pt
dv...@altavista.com
That's awesome. Since I don't know any theory, I'm always "inventing"
chords; it's great being able to plug them in and get a name. Thanks
a million.
RF
Jack Campin - bogus address
The interface is nice, but is the output correct? I asked it first
to do the Tristan chord (F B G# D#) and then an A major triad (A E C#),
and I don't understand how either fretboard suggestion could work;
there seem to be extra notes.
How on earth could you name the Tristan chord as "Dm/F", which is one
of the options in the dropdown?
============== j-c ====== @ ====== purr . demon . co . uk ==============
Jack Campin: 11 Third St, Newtongrange EH22 4PU, Scotland | tel 0131 660 4760
<http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/> for CD-ROMs and free | fax 0870 0554 975
stuff: Scottish music, food intolerance, & Mac logic fonts | mob 07800 739 557
Dave Van
If you like that one you may also like this one:
And its companion page:
http://jguitar.com/chordsearch
The chord search page is nice because when you click on the chord
diagram it takes you to the Chord Calculator which shows you more
alternate positions and voicing than you'll ever need.
The site is also rich with helpful info such as the chord and scale
dictionaries. You can even set it up to provide chords and scales for 5
and 7 string instruments by clicking on the "Instrument" link in the
menu to the left.
Accurate info, fun interface.
Peace
DV
Hans Aberg
jimi...@googlemail.com wrote:
> I wrote this chord namer module for perl (available from CPAN if
> you're interested), so then I also wrote a web interface to it that
> allows you to input notes and it names the chord...
>
> http://webu.co.uk/guitar-music/chord-namer.cgi
There is also a script for Python, I think; net-search "chord-namer". It
would be nice with a program that could be run from the console (as on Mac
OS X and other UNIXs).
--
Hans Aberg
jimi...@googlemail.com
jimi...@googlemail.com
If you input the chord correctly the output should read [rootnote]Ø7,
eg:
INPUT: F B D# G#
(as it first appeared in "Tristan und Isolde")
OUTPUT: FØ7
which is the correct shorthand notation for that chord (half
diminished with 7th)
Hans Aberg
> I wrote this chord namer module for perl (available from CPAN if
> you're interested), so then I also wrote a web interface to it that
> allows you to input notes and it names the chord...
>
> http://webu.co.uk/guitar-music/chord-namer.cgi
Hey, here is a guy with same name as yours, also doing a Perl script :-)
http://search.cpan.org/~jimi/Music-Chord-Namer-0.01/lib/Music/Chord/Namer.pm
How is it installed and used on a UNIX computer (like Mac OS X) with Perl
installed?
--
Hans Aberg
Steve Dix
wrote:
In the standard way all CPAN stuff is used.
Download it, unpack with tar -xvzf, then
perl Makefile.PL
make
make test
make install
There's a readme file in the archive that explains it.
--
http://www.cdbaby.com/sinistrals http://sinistrals.stevedix.de/
http://www.stevedix.de/blog http://www.snorty.net/
<st...@stevedix.de>
performingchimp
> chords; it's great being able to plug them in and get a name. Thanks
> a million.
Please do NOT think that this will help you name chords if you don't
understand the theory. It will just make you look silly!!!!
For example, the first name on the list for a simple Fmaj9 chord is
Fmajb11sus2
So that's F major with a sus2 - well you can't have a MAJOR with a
SUSPENSION! That's a basic contradiction in terms.
And the coup de grace - a flattened eleventh!!!!!!!!!!! Simply comic
genius. There is no such interval. Amazing.
I will never see the point of these things. You need to learn theory,
otherwise how is it useful? It's like th old adage "if you can't spell,
how can you look up a word in the dictionary t find out how to spell
it?", except in this case it is more accurate.
jg
--
jongomm.com
Steve Cobham
<in...@jonSPAMISFORLOSERSgomm.com> wrote:
> > That's awesome. Since I don't know any theory, I'm always "inventing"
>> chords; it's great being able to plug them in and get a name. Thanks
>> a million.
>
>Please do NOT think that this will help you name chords if you don't
>understand the theory. It will just make you look silly!!!!
>
>For example, the first name on the list for a simple Fmaj9 chord is
>Fmajb11sus2
>
>So that's F major with a sus2 - well you can't have a MAJOR with a
>SUSPENSION! That's a basic contradiction in terms.
>
>And the coup de grace - a flattened eleventh!!!!!!!!!!! Simply comic
>genius. There is no such interval. Amazing.
Ah, you haven't spotted the flattened 12th yet? ;)
>
>
>I will never see the point of these things. You need to learn theory,
>otherwise how is it useful? It's like th old adage "if you can't spell,
>how can you look up a word in the dictionary t find out how to spell
>it?", except in this case it is more accurate.
Totally and unequivocally agree with you, Jon.
This stuff isn't difficult to learn as it's totally logical and
doesn't have any contradictions.
Steve.
dv...@altavista.com
wrote:
Well...for what it's worth, I'm not interested in learning theory.
I'm 43 years old and I can play almost anything I put my mind to
because I have a good ear. I can barely name the 6 strings.
Where I thought this could help me is in naming chords so I can write
out chord progressions for the kids in my youth band. If this
particular chord namer is inaccurate, that's a different story
altogether.
RF
Hans Aberg
> And the coup de grace - a flattened eleventh!!!!!!!!!!! Simply comic
> genius. There is no such interval. Amazing.
>
>
> I will never see the point of these things. You need to learn theory, ...
So why is there no 11b?
--
Hans Aberg
Tom K.
"Hans Aberg" <hab...@math.su.se> wrote in message
news:haberg-2702...@c83-250-192-69.bredband.comhem.se...
Because no enharmonic name for the major 3rd is ever used, be it 4b, 11b or
2x.
Tom K.
Charmed Snark
wrote in alt.guitar.beginner:
>> I wrote this chord namer module for perl (available from CPAN if
>> you're interested), so then I also wrote a web interface to it
>> that allows you to input notes and it names the chord...
>>
>> http://webu.co.uk/guitar-music/chord-namer.cgi
>>
>> Excerpt of blurb:
>> "This musical chord namer was written using a module that I wrote
>> called Music::Chord::Namer and features a guitar interface to
>> allow you to directly input what you play and get the best name
>> for your chord. ... There is also a text box for you to enter the
>> notes manually if you play another instrument, for example a
>> piano, and the guitar interface is no good. Just type in the
>> musical notes using upper-case letters for the notes and a 'b'
>> for flat or '#' for sharp. ..."
>
> The interface is nice, but is the output correct? I asked it
> first to do the Tristan chord (F B G# D#) and then an A major
> triad (A E C#), and I don't understand how either fretboard
> suggestion could work; there seem to be extra notes.
I found it to be sensitive to the bass note. For example,
if you leave out the open D string, but put the fretted notes
for the D7 or D chord on the high EBG strings, you get
chord names other than D or D7. As soon as you put the
root note (open D in this case) in place, it names
the chords fine. Perhaps it should name all the inversions.
Snark.
--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com
Charmed Snark
> http://webu.co.uk/guitar-music/chord-namer.cgi
Very nice indeed. If you feel like enhancing it
just a little further, it would be nice to
be able to put a standard chord in another input
box, and then modify it from there. That would
save the user from having to recreate the basic
chord, and then apply whatever modification
(sus4, add4 etc.) But that may be more work
than you want to take on.
For example, I might like to start with a C
chord, and then modify the notes and then
see what it comes out as (like Cadd4 etc.).
Thanks for sharing a very nice tool.
Charmed Snark
wrote in alt.guitar.beginner:
The availability of a tool _can_ aid someone who _is_ learning the
theory. Someone who is learning this needs to have some way to
verify the correct answer. The point of these things is to assist
those beginners that need it.
If I may be so snarky to say, it is better that people not be so
quick to dis the good things that others do to help, especially
beginners in this group. And very especially, when it is free.
Hans Aberg
<tkorth...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >> And the coup de grace - a flattened eleventh!!!!!!!!!!! Simply comic
> >> genius. There is no such interval. Amazing.
> >>
> >>
> >> I will never see the point of these things. You need to learn theory, ...
> >
> > So why is there no 11b?
> >
>
> Because no enharmonic name for the major 3rd is ever used, be it 4b, 11b or
> 2x.
That is not same thing as they do not exist in theory. One might write 11b
to indicate that this arises as an alteration of 11. If you use a key
signature with six b, then it has Cb, not B, and if one has seven b, it
also has Fb, not E. So such forms seem possible, though rare. And one
might, in principle, play in a rational scale where the intervals 11b and
10 are not the same. Just some thoughts. :-)
--
Hans Aberg
jimi...@googlemail.com
Some discussion here has highlighted a few issues with my chord namer!
1) There are more 'special cases' that I haven't handled, that perhaps
I should. The system works by searching through the special cases and
if the chord is one of them it uses that name. Other wise it work it
out mathematically.
2) Terminology... essentially, an 11 is just a 4 an octave higher... a
flat 11 should really, therefore, be called a diminished 11. It's not
incorrect. The case when you'll find one of these is when the 3rd is
minor but there's also a major 10th... my interpretation was that this
shouldn't really be called a maj10 cos it disagrees with me somewhere
deep inside. If you guys think it should be called a maj10 then
that's what I'll call it. If there's a flat 12 then I've just
forgotten to call it diminished. All these problems are easily
fixed... just let me know what you think it right.
3) Somebody said that the suggested shape of the chord was all wrong.
I pointed out that this is for input only... and does not suggest a
shape for a chord you inputted textually. However, I have just
created a wee function and inserted it that figures out something easy
to play that might valuely resemble the chord you input.
C'mon, tell me what you really want, this is "community
development" ;-)
I'm not really too familiar with conventions for naming chords like
13s and stuff, a 13 has a 7,9,11 and 13 in it right? It does actually
work for this kind of chord, but if you don't have all the relevant
notes it'll call it something else.
No majors with suspensions? What planet are you on?? Besides, when I
put a Fmaj9 on the fretboard the program says "Fmaj9"... so there! If
you have what you think is a bug, or error, please write down exactly
what notes you put in so I can try to reproduce the error... otherwise
how am I supposed to fix it?
Nice idea about the dots for orientation... also, it'd be nice if the
horizontal lines ran under the radiobuttons instead of between them...
all stuff I can work on.
Cheers for your comments guys, it's all helpful.
Jimi
Tom K.
"Hans Aberg" <hab...@math.su.se> wrote in message
news:haberg-2702...@c83-250-192-69.bredband.comhem.se...
Uh Hans, the issue was chord symbols, not scales. And in my neck of the
woods, scales have a 4th degree, but not an 11th degree - flatted or
otherwise.
Tom K.
Adrian Clark
"jimi...@googlemail.com" <jimi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> No majors with suspensions? What planet are you on??
In a suspended chord, the 3rd has been "suspended", ie dragged to a
different pitch. Therefore, a suspended chord won't contain any 3rd,
major or minor.
adrian
--
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Hans Aberg
"jimi...@googlemail.com" <jimi...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> 2) Terminology... essentially, an 11 is just a 4 an octave higher... a
> flat 11 should really, therefore, be called a diminished 11.
A (Swedish) encyclopedia I have lists the following just intonation
interval values (though there are different ways to construct it):
Interval relative frequency
3 5/4
4b 32/25
3# 125/96
4 4/3
For intervals 10-11, just multiply by 2:
10 5/2
11b 64/25
10# 125/48
11 16/3
So here, the intervals 10 and 11b are different, as well as the intervals
10# and 11.
--
Hans Aberg
Hans Aberg
<tkorth...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > One might write 11b
> > to indicate that this arises as an alteration of 11. If you use a key
> > signature with six b, then it has Cb, not B, and if one has seven b, it
> > also has Fb, not E. So such forms seem possible, though rare. And one
> > might, in principle, play in a rational scale where the intervals 11b and
> > 10 are not the same. Just some thoughts. :-)
> Uh Hans, the issue was chord symbols, not scales.
So do you not play the chord with respect to the scale then? Scales can be
constructed by choosing which how the chords should sound, and the later,
by adjusting the interval proportions.
> And in my neck of the
> woods, scales have a 4th degree, but not an 11th degree - flatted or
> otherwise.
Is this a guitar?
--
Hans Aberg
Steve Cobham
Agreed.
>Someone who is learning this needs to have some way to
>verify the correct answer. The point of these things is to assist
>those beginners that need it.
So, what if the tool is the wrong one or - as in this case - totally
inadequate for the job?
Using this program to check whether you've formulated a chord
correctly is the equivalent of banging a nail in a piece of wood with
a hammer made of Stilton cheese.
>
>If I may be so snarky to say, it is better that people not be so
>quick to dis the good things that others do to help, especially
>beginners in this group.
And if I may be so snarky to say, if it was any good then I'd agree.
But as it refers to nonsensical "musical" terms such as a flattened
12th then I think I have every right to criticise it.
>And very especially, when it is free.
Free isn't necessarily always good.
I mean, I have a free local newspaper here, but it's only fit to put
under the cat's litter tray, although that makes it marginally more
useful than this program.
Steve.
performingchimp
> Where I thought this could help me is in naming chords so I can write
> out chord progressions for the kids in my youth band. If this
> particular chord namer is inaccurate, that's a different story
> altogether.
>
> RF
Please don't do that! The nature of these programs means that they are
all innacurate enough that they require some knowledge on your part to
deduct the "best" answer from a shortlist of "possible" answers, some of
which "possible" answers are so unconventional as to be useless. I
really think all programs like this should have a massive disclaimer notice.
If you don't know any theory, you have to teach people in the way that
YOU understand, not with a kack-handed and ultimately blind version of
theory you have no knowledge of!
Tommy Emmanuel is the best guitarist the world, probably, and he calls
the top string the bottom string. I could mock him for it, but then he
could play something so amazing it'd be pretty clear to everyone who the
expert is.
I don't mean to sound at all patronising - I'm worried that I am
sounding that way! But I want to make it clear that I don't decry this
program from some position of superiority. It's just that I DO
understand theory well, and as such I can tell people who don't whether
this thing works or not. I don't think that knowledge makes me a better
player, teacher or communicator of music.
George Weston
"performingchimp" <in...@jonSPAMISFORLOSERSgomm.com> wrote in message
news:3K%Eh.33318$z54....@newsfe3-gui.ntli.net...
> Tommy Emmanuel is the best guitarist the world, probably, and he calls the
> top string the bottom string. I could mock him for it, but then he could
> play something so amazing it'd be pretty clear to everyone who the expert
> is.
Like my partner in musical crime, Brian, who usually refers to so many frets
"up" the fretboard, when he means "down". I think he takes into account the
angle at which the neck subtends from the level...
He knows what he means and I think I do now...
George
Tom K.
"Hans Aberg" <hab...@math.su.se> wrote in message
news:haberg-2702...@c83-250-192-69.bredband.comhem.se...
> <tkorth...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> Uh Hans, the issue was chord symbols, not scales.
>
> So do you not play the chord with respect to the scale then? Scales can be
> constructed by choosing which how the chords should sound, and the later,
> by adjusting the interval proportions.
>
Figured bass symbols are dependant on key signature, but not necessarily
scale. Lead Sheet Chord symbols are another matter, entirely and are
independant of signature, scale, time of day, etc.. They only refer to
intervals above the root. So if one calls for a C7 in an F# major context
(scale), then three tones will be chromatic and one will be enharmonic - but
it is still a C7, the same one found in F major.
>> And in my neck of the
>> woods, scales have a 4th degree, but not an 11th degree - flatted or
>> otherwise.
>
> Is this a guitar?
Is what a guitar? "My neck of the woods" is an expression meaning my
geographical neighborhood.
Tom K.
dv...@altavista.com
wrote:
I hear ya. Point well taken.
I've owned one of those portable "chord calculators" for years now.
Every once in a while it'll spit out a form that makes no sonic sense
when you play it. I don't lose too much sleep over it though, I just
experiment with the form to find something that does make sense. I
haven't cringed anybody to death so far.
The kids I'm teaching (well, more like showing them how to play, not
really teaching) are really only in the CAGED league right now; they
can't barre, so they can't even play F or B chords. I don't think
they'll be attempting any sus7aug's any time soon.
Thanks for your thoughts.
RF
RF
Hans Aberg
<tkorth...@comcast.net> wrote:
> > So do you not play the chord with respect to the scale then? Scales can be
> > constructed by choosing which how the chords should sound, and the later,
> > by adjusting the interval proportions.
> Figured bass symbols are dependant on key signature, but not necessarily
> scale.
At least notated as such. But in the past, as in regional music today, one
probably has a strong opinion which pitches to play.
> Lead Sheet Chord symbols are another matter, entirely and are
> independant of signature, scale, time of day, etc..
And the performance sounding good?
> They only refer to
> intervals above the root. So if one calls for a C7 in an F# major context
> (scale), then three tones will be chromatic and one will be enharmonic - but
> it is still a C7, the same one found in F major.
Unless one thinks of them as figured with the name written out, subsuming
the other components of the musical context.
> >> And in my neck of the
> >> woods, scales have a 4th degree, but not an 11th degree - flatted or
> >> otherwise.
> >
> > Is this a guitar?
>
> Is what a guitar? "My neck of the woods" is an expression meaning my
> geographical neighborhood.
Aha, an English idiom for "in my world where the sky is green". :-) Well,
though pitch classes based on octaves seem natural, in actuality the
partials will blend differently with other pitches in the chord. So
the musical effect is in reality different. It could be exploited. Try to
play finish a piece with a tetracord of intervals 1, 3, 5, 9 within the
scale, like in jazz, I think, and then replace it with intervals 1, 2, 3,
5. Do they sound equivalent?
--
Hans Aberg
googledawg
melodic minor scale, wherein the upper stucture of the extended
tertian system would indeed include a flatted 11th. properly named
for the sake of correct interval naming. that it sounds as a major
third gets way-whacked out when you consider the rest of the chord/
scale, with everyting flatted but the root. flat 3, 5, and 7,
followed by flat 9, 11 and 13.
but i noticed the emaddb9/g name when i stuck in a simple G13 G-F-A-
E.
seriously, jimica , i think if you did learn the theory behind this it
would answer a lot of questions for you
consider this: music theory, ESPECIALLY chord construction and
naming, is more history than theoretical physics. it's more a matter
of learning the idea behind WHY something is built the way it is, and
agreed to by centuries of musicians in the past since it - well, makes
SENSE, rather than being a hopelessly confusing mass of cosmic
mathematics that it's feared to be by those who avoid it like somehow
it will detract from their "musicianship". not that you are one
of those - i think maybe you've just been waylaid by some "this is the
ONLY way" religio-theorists in the past. what you HAVE in your chord
namer shows mostly an unnecessarily complicated system. it's really
simpler than that.
and seriously, i mean to say that in hopes that you might find a
simple good book on fundamentals that knocks a few of the looser
bricks out of the wall for you. it's what you learn after you know
it all that means the most.
after teaching for the last 40 years, i've found a teacher that's
showing me a whole new approach to a lot of stuff. it's great
old dawg
performingchimp
> Roger B's got it right - you need to look at the seventh mode of the
> melodic minor scale, wherein the upper stucture of the extended
> tertian system would indeed include a flatted 11th. properly named
> for the sake of correct interval naming.
> E.
>
Semantically, that is correct. The fourth interval of that scale is
flattened, as compared to a perfect 4th. But that doesn't make that
interval ever nameable as a a flat 4th in the real world.
You could name that scale, equally correctly, and equally as
ridiculously, as a major scale with an augmented root!!!
As I suspect you agree: it's this ridiculous obsession with semantics
which alienates people from learning theory. It's just the application
of a few very simple rules.
Trevor George
> I mean, I have a free local newspaper here, but it's only fit to put
> under the cat's litter tray, although that makes it marginally more
> useful than this program.
I once knew a guy who played a chord which he called "B flat minor major 7th 11th
sus"
He's dead now.
Not from playing that chord tho'
Just old age :-)
--
Cheers ..... Trevor George, Hotwells, Bristol, UK.
Open -Mic links around Bristol - http://www.onmydoor.co.uk
'Music and Dance on Water' - http://www.onmyboat.co.uk/dance.htm
Work - http://www.OnMyWindow.co.uk
Charmed Snark
>>If I may be so snarky to say, it is better that people not be so
>>quick to dis the good things that others do to help, especially
>>beginners in this group.
>
> And if I may be so snarky to say, if it was any good then I'd
> agree. But as it refers to nonsensical "musical" terms such as a
> flattened 12th then I think I have every right to criticise it.
Ok, but rather than say "I don't really see the point in tools like
this", let's have some useful feedback on how to improve it.
>>And very especially, when it is free.
>
> Free isn't necessarily always good.
>
> I mean, I have a free local newspaper here, but it's only fit to
> put under the cat's litter tray, although that makes it marginally
> more useful than this program.
>
> Steve.
Its one thing to just say "it's no good", but quite another to
suggest how it could be better. Finding fault is always easier, just
like destruction/chaos is easier than creating/order. That was the
crux of my point.
Charmed Snark
wrote in alt.guitar.beginner:
> Steve Cobham wrote in message ...
>> I mean, I have a free local newspaper here, but it's only fit to
>> put under the cat's litter tray, although that makes it
>> marginally more useful than this program.
>
> I once knew a guy who played a chord which he called "B flat minor
> major 7th 11th sus"
>
> He's dead now.
>
> Not from playing that chord tho'
The theory did him in ;-)
> Just old age :-)
Steve Cobham
>On 27 Feb 2007, Steve Cobham <st...@XXguitarsXX.powernet.co.uk>
>wrote in alt.guitar.beginner: ...
>>>If I may be so snarky to say, it is better that people not be so
>>>quick to dis the good things that others do to help, especially
>>>beginners in this group.
>>
>> And if I may be so snarky to say, if it was any good then I'd
>> agree. But as it refers to nonsensical "musical" terms such as a
>> flattened 12th then I think I have every right to criticise it.
>
>Ok, but rather than say "I don't really see the point in tools like
>this", let's have some useful feedback on how to improve it.
Which is not what I said.
>
>>>And very especially, when it is free.
>>
>> Free isn't necessarily always good.
>>
>> I mean, I have a free local newspaper here, but it's only fit to
>> put under the cat's litter tray, although that makes it marginally
>> more useful than this program.
>>
>> Steve.
>
>Its one thing to just say "it's no good", but quite another to
>suggest how it could be better. Finding fault is always easier, just
>like destruction/chaos is easier than creating/order. That was the
>crux of my point.
I don't really see the point of reinventing the wheel, which is what
this program seems to do, but ends up with hexagonal wheels.
There are quite a few similar utilities about which all seem to do the
same thing.
Anyway....what could improve it?
A rewrite with knowledge of correct chord names and valid intervals,
which is what most critics seem to have highlighted as lacking, would
be a start.
If it was just a gnat's away from being useful and/or better in some
way then I wouldn't have said anything, but as it incorporates so many
gross errors I had to say something.
And really, why should I point out how it could be made better?
If I get a product that fails to do what it says it should do then I
don't expect to have to join the design team.
Yes, this is available for free and I can take it or leave it, but if
it is full of errors then that needs pointing out, whether any
improvements can be suggested or not, so that someone doesn't go away
thinking a flattened 12th is a legitimate musical term
Steve.