Charing Cross Road guitar shop quest - Resurrection
Angus Manwaring
Some months back a few of you kindly gave me some help trying to establish
which shop in Charing Cross Road (or thereabouts) I bought my Les Paul
from, back in 1980.
To recap, all I remember is that heading North, it was on the right (East)
side, and on the Northern corner of a turning or alley.
And, the door was right on the corner, taking you into the shop at a
diagonal angle (North East). This entrance was like a short glass corridor
with guitars (including mine!!!) displayed on the left and right.
The Shop
| | grubby but cool shops
| \ |
| \ |
|______________\|
-------------------------------------------
Charing Cross Road
NORTH T.Square SOUTH
-------------------------------------------- down this way
And, the shop was not like the cooler shops to the South which were
scruffy with lots of secondhand stuff - this shop seemed to be new stock
and the decor was quite respectable and shiny, and well lit, more like a
mature ladies clothes shop.
When I initially asked this question it was generally thought that the
shop I was talking about was Turnkey/Soho Soundhouse/Selmers
....or possibly the Internet Cafe which I gather used to be Francis, Day &
Hunter.
......Anyway, I finally got up to London and spent some time trying to
satisfy myself for sure which shop it was.
I walked up Charing Cross Road, heading North with Charing Cross behind
me.
I got to Turnkey (formerly Soho Soundhouse/Selmers) and was disappointed
to see that it was closed down and boarded up. At first I thought this
probably wasn't the shop.
I headed North again and came to Chris Bryant's guitar shop. This was the
right basic configuration, but I was sure it wasn't the shop, and on
speaking to Chris (who has worked in local guitar shops since 1972 and has
an almost unbelieveable ability to multitask) he felt I was definitely
talking about Turnkey. I kept going though, and came to another possible
match, the aforementioned internet cafe, opposite a Nero coffee bar.
Apparently The Internet place used to be a book shop, but before that it
sold musical instruments. It could be the place, but the door was all
wrong and the structure looked decades old (and Chris Bryant thought the door
had always been in the middle, not the diagonal, corner door that I was
looking for.
And I think that's what it comes down to.
Did The Internet Cafe (Francis, Day and Hunter) ever have (well, in 1980)
a diagonal, corner door with a "glass corridor"?
Sorry to ramble on about this, but its clearly become a bit of a quest for
me.
Here is a picture of Turnkey yesterday
http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/Temp/images/turnkey.jpg
And here is one of the Internet cafe
http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/Temp/images/hunter.jpg
A lady in a nearby bookshop told me that in Turnkey's last few days the
staff had on offer a dead mouse on a record deck, for one penny.
Apparently credit terms were also available. At least they kept their
sense of humour.
All the best,
Angus Manwaring. (for e-mail remove ANTISPEM)
I need your memories for the Amiga Games Database: A collection of Amiga
Game reviews by Amiga players http://www.angusm.demon.co.uk/AGDB/AGDB.html
George Weston
"Angus Manwaring" <angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3377.289T2263T12165394angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk...
IIRC, Turnkey/Soho Soundhouse was the same firm as Sound Control/Academy of
Sound, who unfortunately went belly-up a few months back.
That may well have been the place.
George
umpston
wrote:
>
> IIRC, Turnkey/Soho Soundhouse was the same firm as Sound Control/Academy of
> Sound, who unfortunately went belly-up a few months back.
> That may well have been the place.
>
> George
The internet cafe was definitely a musical instrument shop around that
time but I don't remember it being FD&H - might it have been Rose-
Morris for a while before they moved to Denmark St.?
JNugent
> Some months back a few of you kindly gave me some help trying to establish
> which shop in Charing Cross Road (or thereabouts) I bought my Les Paul
> from, back in 1980.
[ ... ]
> Did The Internet Cafe (Francis, Day and Hunter) ever have (well, in 1980)
> a diagonal, corner door with a "glass corridor"?
Possibly (it's a long time ago), but that also sounds like Selmer's (the
building one block farther south which later became Turnkey and was
refurbished so as to remove the "corridor").
JNugent
> The internet cafe was definitely a musical instrument shop around that
> time but I don't remember it being FD&H - might it have been Rose-
> Morris for a while before they moved to Denmark St.?
FD&H didn't sell much (if anything) in the way of musical instruments. They
were a HUGE music publishing company (later taken over by EMI).
umpston
That fits with my memory too. But I do remember that the present day
internet cafe was a musical instrument shop around that time,
therefore probably not FD&H at that time.
umpston
I agree. Turnkey's main entrance door is still on the corner of the
alleyway (concealed by the shutters in the photo). Although it
appears this corridor has been removed inside the main part of the
shop a short section of it remains further inside (on the alleyway
side) at the foot of the stairs, where there is also a side entrance
from the alley.
JNugent
I should have added that before Rose-Morris was at its present site in
Denmark Street, it had larger and more impressive double-fronted premises in
Shaftesbury Avenue, about 150 yards down on the right (north side) from
Cambridge Circus (walking toward Piccadilly Circus).
Roger Moss
"umpston" <ump...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:54618e7d-542d-43df...@q9g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
My money's on Selmer, too. That place had some history, although I don't
recall it being what you'd call friendly... :-)
Here's another departee for you: Music Piccadilly, in Denman St. Bought my
Martin in there when I was 18, having seen it advertised in MM ad pages.
Like Rose-Morris, they were (much) more focused on non-guitar stock, but had
a Fender King Jumbo on the wall - didn't even try it, as I'd come for the
Martin. Always wondered, though, what the Fender would have sounded and
played - seem to recall Keith Christmas playing one for awhile.
Happy Days...
Roger
JNugent
Worry not. The USA Fender acoustics weren't a success because they weren't
(whisper it...) all that good.
Si
FD&H and it sold loads of guitars as well as sheet music. I used to hang out
there when I was a teenager. Actually saw a guy in a very long coat steal a
guitar from there once. But, I don't think it ever had a diagonal entrance.
Turnkey/Soho Soundhouse/Fender Soundhouse used to be in Tottenham Court Road
(where Paperchase is now) and then, after a fire, for a brief time moved to
Hampstead Road which was great for me as I used to live behind it. They sold
fire damaged Strats (which were sunburst) for £6. On reflection I think that
was the 70s. Even though Turnkey has a diagonal entrance I don't ever
remember them having guitars downstairs.
Cheers
Si
"JNugent" <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
news:FLSdnesuSdi54azU...@pipex.net...
Angus Manwaring
>Angus Manwaring wrote:
>[ ... ]
Well, yeah - on the face of it - it sounds like Selmer's was the shop I
bought the Les Paul at.... and if you reckon FD&H didn't have much in the
way of instruments - and nobody remembers my diagonal NE corridor
entrance - that pretty much wraps it up as far as I can see.
Angus Manwaring
Yes, peering (rather sadly - in every respect) through the perforations in
the shutters, I could still see signs on the floor of where the corridor
walls were based.
I also turned up this webpage which is pretty interesting - and the Paul
Kossoff link only makes it more appealing as far as I'm concerned. I also
understand its where Peter Green bought his Les Paul from in the mid
sixties for 110 quid. Chris Bryant also mentioned that John Mclaughlin
used to work there.
Memories of the Selmer shop
http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/gallery/gallery3/gallery6/gallery7/shop.html
anyt...@contractorcom.com
>I live just down the road from Denmark Street. The internet cafe used to be
>FD&H and it sold loads of guitars as well as sheet music. I used to hang out
>there when I was a teenager. Actually saw a guy in a very long coat steal a
>guitar from there once. But, I don't think it ever had a diagonal entrance.
>Turnkey/Soho Soundhouse/Fender Soundhouse used to be in Tottenham Court Road
>(where Paperchase is now) and then, after a fire, for a brief time moved to
>Hampstead Road which was great for me as I used to live behind it. They sold
>fire damaged Strats (which were sunburst) for £6. On reflection I think that
>was the 70s. Even though Turnkey has a diagonal entrance I don't ever
>remember them having guitars downstairs.
>
>Cheers
>
>Si
I bet you could get quite a few bob for a fire damaged Strat on
Ebay..:-)
Pete
JNugent
<http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/gallery/gallery3/gallery6/gallery7/shop.html>
Great website - I have helped Steve out with rare-item catalogue
illustrations a couple of times.
Eric Clapton also once reported (in a 1967 "Beat Instrumental" interview)
that he got his first Les Paul (the one he used with the Bluesbreakers, which
was later stolen) at the Selmer shop.
I remember buying instruments at Pan Musical Instruments (Wardour Street),
Take Five (Shaftesbury Avenue), Sound City (ditto), Modern Sound (Charing
Cross Road, now the site of "Rockstop") and Macari's (also CX Road). I don't
remember ever buying anything at Selmer (apart from Gibson strings - they
were the best West End stockist), but I do recall having a long conversation
there with Indian jazz guitarist Amancio Da Silva, whom they employed as a
guitar salesman.
Selmer always displayed their stock very well. It was their CX Road shop
which had the original, vaguely-Mosrite-shaped Yamaha SG solids which were
reissued a few years ago, and which were to form the basis of Vinny Burns'
signature models. I fell in love with those Yamahas but couldn't stretch to
the £70+ for a spare guitar at the time (prolly the equivalent of about £900
in today's terms). I have a few of the reissues though...
Angus Manwaring
>I live just down the road from Denmark Street.
Location-dropper! :)
I gather Forbidden Planet has gone?
>The internet cafe used to be
>FD&H and it sold loads of guitars as well as sheet music. I used to hang out
>there when I was a teenager. Actually saw a guy in a very long coat steal a
>guitar from there once. But, I don't think it ever had a diagonal entrance.
Ah, okay - well that would rule it pretty much out of my quest at least.
Cool anecdote though. :)
>Turnkey/Soho Soundhouse/Fender Soundhouse used to be in Tottenham Court Road
>(where Paperchase is now) and then, after a fire, for a brief time moved to
>Hampstead Road which was great for me as I used to live behind it. They sold
>fire damaged Strats (which were sunburst) for £6. On reflection I think that
>was the 70s. Even though Turnkey has a diagonal entrance I don't ever
>remember them having guitars downstairs.
I don't recall a downstairs in the shop I'm talking about but I pretty
much just had eyes for the Sunburst loveliness I was in the eprocess of
buying.
Your sure about the Totenham Court road thing? On the Memory of the Selmer
shop webpage
http://www.vintagehofner.co.uk/gallery/gallery3/gallery6/gallery7/shop.html
it doesn't mention that as far as I can see, although it says the shop was
at one point REW and for a short time (before being Turnkey) a computer
shop. Its confusing. This is 114-116 Charing Cross Road we're talking
about?
Cheers.
Roger Moss
Amazing Selmer pages - thanks!
While we're 'up West', I'll toss in John Alvey Turner, in New Oxford Street,
where I used to go to buy their own-brand strings - the same mix n' match
gauges used for years by John Renbourn. The guy behind the counter was the
irreplaceable Max Butler, who got an old J.J Turner 5-string bajo I'd picked
up s/h back into shape, told me that their branded banjos were actually made
by Dallas, and dated mine at 1921.
Just next door was a great record shop (Colletts, maybe?), for hanging out,
picking up great imports, etc.
Next recollection contestant, please...
Roger
Si
Point end of Denmark Street and follow the road as it bends to the right,
it's just there around the corner.
The original Virgin Records was also in New Oxford Street and I think the
guitar shop was called Music City in Shaftsbury Avenue but I may be wrong
(very addled brain). I remember it being a huge shop although I was only a
kid at the time so I could be wrong.
Si
"Angus Manwaring" <angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1100.290T2767T12196006angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk...
JNugent
Remember Imhof's?
JNugent
> "Angus Manwaring" <angus@angusm_ANTISPEM_.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 28-Nov-08 23:33:37, JNugent said
>>> Angus Manwaring wrote:
>>>> Some months back a few of you kindly gave me some help trying to
>>>> establish which shop in Charing Cross Road (or thereabouts) I
>>>> bought my Les Paul from, back in 1980.
>>> [ ... ]
>>>> Did The Internet Cafe (Francis, Day and Hunter) ever have (well, in
>>>> 1980) a diagonal, corner door with a "glass corridor"?
>>> Possibly (it's a long time ago), but that also sounds like Selmer's (the
>>> building one block farther south which later became Turnkey and was
>>> refurbished so as to remove the "corridor").
>> Well, yeah - on the face of it - it sounds like Selmer's was the shop I
>> bought the Les Paul at.... and if you reckon FD&H didn't have much in the
>> way of instruments - and nobody remembers my diagonal NE corridor
>> entrance - that pretty much wraps it up as far as I can see.
> Forbidden Planet has moved to Shaftsbury Avenue. If you go out the
> Centre Point end of Denmark Street and follow the road as it bends to
> the right, it's just there around the corner.
> The original Virgin Records was also in New Oxford Street and I think
> the guitar shop was called Music City in Shaftsbury Avenue but I may be
> wrong (very addled brain). I remember it being a huge shop although I
> was only a kid at the time so I could be wrong.
I certainly remember the "old" Virgin Records premises on the first floor
(north side) of Oxford Street W1 (circa 1970), but this was in the main part
of Oxford Street (in Westminster, about 250- 350 yards west of Centre Point)
rather than in New Oxford Street WC2(?) (in Camden).
JNugent
[ ... ]
> ... I think
> the guitar shop was called Music City in Shaftsbury Avenue but I may be
> wrong (very addled brain). I remember it being a huge shop although I
> was only a kid at the time so I could be wrong.
Dallas Arbiter ran three separate West End shops in the sixties and up to
about the mid-seventies:
(a) Sound City in Shaftesbury Avenue, on the SW corner of the junction with
Gerrard Place: <http://tinyurl.com/6xev6e> - the lorry in the pic is just
about to pass the premises.
(b) Drum City, a few doors farther along Shaftesbury Avenue, on the same side
as Sound City - maybe about five or six numbers along.
(c) Modern Sound in Charing Cross Road (easily located because the premises
are now operated as "Rockstop"
<http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1092/10057.php>.
There was no "Music City" - I think you must mean the main store, Sound City.
Si
Si
"JNugent" <J...@noparticularplacetogo.com> wrote in message
news:u5GdnV8PXtUTiq7U...@pipex.net...
Si
rather then on the corner. Hmm...........
Si
"Si" <s...@m.sucks> wrote in message
news:4933499f$0$2525$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Roger Moss
Strangely, I do <cheese>
Oh, and Clifford Essex, for banjo fans.
Roger
JNugent
>>> Si wrote:
>>> [ ... ]
>>>> ... I think the guitar shop was called Music City in Shaftsbury
>>>> Avenue but I may be wrong (very addled brain). I remember it being a
>>>> huge shop although I was only a kid at the time so I could be wrong.
>>> Dallas Arbiter ran three separate West End shops in the sixties and
>>> up to about the mid-seventies:
>>> (a) Sound City in Shaftesbury Avenue, on the SW corner of the
>>> junction with Gerrard Place: <http://tinyurl.com/6xev6e> - the lorry
>>> in the pic is just about to pass the premises.
>>> (b) Drum City, a few doors farther along Shaftesbury Avenue, on the
>>> same side as Sound City - maybe about five or six numbers along.
>>> (c) Modern Sound in Charing Cross Road (easily located because the
>>> premises are now operated as "Rockstop"
>>> <http://www.allinlondon.co.uk/directory/1092/10057.php>.
>>> There was no "Music City" - I think you must mean the main store,
>>> Sound City.
> "Si" <s...@m.sucks> wrote in message
> news:4933499f$0$2525$da0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>> Like I said, very addled brain.
>> Si
Si wrote:
> Thinking about it, the shop I'm thinking of was in the middle of the
> block rather then on the corner. Hmm...........
> Si
That sounds like the old Rose-Morris premises (north side of Shaftesbury
Avenue, between Frith Street and Dean Street).