Twelve Bar Blues Aching
Gary
playing even only the first 5 or 6 bars my wrist starts to really ache. I've
got my first finger on the 5th string 2nd fret and 3rd finger alternating
open/closed on the 5th string 4th fret. In order to achieve this stretch I
find I have to have my thumb positioned down behind the 4th fret. i.e. hold
up your left hand and then move the thumb 90 degrees to see the sort of
positioning I mean.
Is this simply a case of the more I play the more the hand will strengthen
and the aching will go away, or am I positioning my thumb incorrectly to
stretch to the 4th fret?
Thanks in advance
Gary
Tony Meloche
Yuo've got to be doing something wrong. First of all, your *wrist*
aching is always a bad sign that you're doing something you
shouldn't be. Your very clear description of your problem made me wince
- alternating 1st and 3rd finger on frets 2 and 4 - with the thumb
behind the 4th fret - is baaaad news. I can't visualize what your wrist
position must be, but I grabbed my guitar and tried it. I have
"normal-large" hands for a man, and I found this passage most
comfortable with my thumb about midway between second and third fret -
very uncomfortable with my thumb behind the fourth fret.
I'm guessing your fingers need to get used to stretching a bit, and they
will in time (you might also be fighting small hands too, I realize).
Remember, NORMALLY there should be a straight line from your forearm,
through your wrist, through the back of your hand in regular playing
position. Your wrist does have to bend a bit for this passage - as it
does for barre chords - and that will make it ache a bit, yes. Work up
to playing the whole song *a little at a time* with no wrist ache. And
avoid 2 or 3 songs in a row that have to have a lot of runs like that or
barre chords. When your wrist starts screaming at you "Stop!", that's
exactly what it means!
The Old Guy
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Justin Otto
Pain is bad, mmmkay?
I've tried what you've described and you're quite right, that hurts.
Now, I'm not a expert you understand, and how you want to do it is up
to you, but you might find that it's a lot easier to play with your
third (or even fourth finger), with your thumb behind the second fret.
I was always advised to use one finger per fret, where possible, so if
your first is playing the second fret, the fourth fret is the
responsibility of your third finger, unless otherwise occupied. :-)
Your milage may vary, but please don't hurt yourself.
J.
--
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Fat Sam
"Gary" <m...@email.com> wrote in message
news:ae307b$r6t$1...@knossos.btinternet.com...
Seems to me that your fingering is a bit crazy.....I play a lot of
blues...In fact it's my main style, and for me, a standard shuffle is based
around an 'E' shape barre chord.....I use 3 fingers spanning 4 frets, and it
really isn't a stretch at all......Just shuffle between these two
shapes......
EŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
BŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
GŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
DŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
AŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś-2 Ś---Ś---Ś---
EŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś-1-Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
EŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
BŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
GŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
DŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
AŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś-2 Ś---Ś-3 Ś---
EŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś-1-Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---
And when you want to add a bit of interest just throw in the seventh note
EŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś
BŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś
GŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś
DŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś
AŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś-2 Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś-4 Ś
EŚŚ---Ś---Ś---Ś-1-Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś---Ś
Of course, to get the traditional 12 bar pattern you will need to play this
in the 1/4/5 positions, but this is easilly done by sliding up and sown the
fretboard, or even easier, just moving the root note (finger 1) onto the A
string instead of the E string......
Lastly, to add extra depth, thry alternating this with ringing open chords
with 7ths and 6ths, and little pentatonic runs......
Remember, the secret to playing successfull blues is to leave lots of space
in your playing.....
Fat Sam
> blues...In fact it's my main style, and for me, a standard shuffle is
based
> around an 'E' shape barre chord.....I use 3 fingers spanning 4 frets, and
it
> really isn't a stretch at all......Just shuffle between these two
> shapes......
Oops, I should have added....You should really only be hitting the two
strings that are being fretted....Try to avoid the other strings or mute
them.....
Daniel
way there wouldn't really be much pressure in your thumb at all. And
you could use your pinky to help make up for any hard stretching. I
know some people frown on wrapping the thumb around but it's always
worked for me. However you will need that thumb when you start making
your way up the neck, but I've never liked using it so far down the
neck....always felt wierd. Anyway hope all these view points help,
you'll find your way. have fun!
"Gary" <m...@email.com> wrote in message news:<ae307b$r6t$1...@knossos.btinternet.com>...
Brian Hoggard
Hi Gary,
Usually the most efficient and flexible way to position your hand and arm
(in principle) is at right angles to the guitar - so your hand would be at a
right angle to the neck and your fingers would be at a verticle right angle
with the fretboard. The best place to position your thumb (theoretically)
is on a spot behind the neck which is between the other fingers you are
using - although most people find that moving the thumb a little towards the
headstock end achieves perfection. For example, if you were using your 1st
and 3rd fingers on the 2nd and 4th frets you'd want your thumb to be behind
the 3rd fret but edging towards the 2nd. Do you get what I mean? The
important thing is to try and maintain this right angle thing - it feels
weird at first but becomes very natural and allows maximum stretching with
minimum stress.
I need to stress now that this is a broad brush description and doesn't
account for all the weird shapes and sizes that exist in people's hands. A
true 90 degree relationship with the guitar would be rather robotic and, I
fear, fairly impossible, it's just a principle to aim for. I'm self taught
and have been playing for 16 years and teaching for 6 and when the right
posture came for me it was a revelation for my playing - really liberating.
Let us know how you get on.
Good luck,
Brian.
b.ho...@btinternet.com
www.thismachinery.com (ex-band)
Gary
Gary
"Brian Hoggard" <b.ho...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:ae4avu$ejn$1...@helle.btinternet.com...
Jon Boyes
> I'm currently learning to play some twelve bar blues, however, whilst
> playing even only the first 5 or 6 bars my wrist starts to really ache. I've
> got my first finger on the 5th string 2nd fret and 3rd finger alternating
> open/closed on the 5th string 4th fret. In order to achieve this stretch I
> find I have to have my thumb positioned down behind the 4th fret. i.e. hold
> up your left hand and then move the thumb 90 degrees to see the sort of
> positioning I mean.
Ouch. A couple of things:
-If your hand/wrist/forearm is in a decent position to start with, there
is no 'stretch' involved here at all - the four fingers of the left hand
naturally fall over four frets.
-also, if your hand/wrist is in a decent potion, the thumb pretty much
takes care of itself. trying to solve positioning problems by thinking
about where you put your thumb is treating the symptom but not the cause.
(Having said that, often the easiest way to get someone out of problems
like this is to get them to move the thumb, particularly when you can't
demonstrate what to do and we're relying on description).
-How high are you holding the neck? If you sling the guitar low, any
thing that you find a stretch becomes more difficult. The lower down the
guitar neck, the more that cradling the neck with your hand becomes both
comfortable and effective (as it enables you to keep a fairly straight
wrist).
As an exercise (or demo perhaps) of positioning, try this:
Relax your left arm so it hangs down by your side, bend your elbow to
lift up your forearm so that your hand is about level with your shoulder,
hand open and palm facing inward toward your shoulder.
Gently hold a pencil between your fingers and thumb, keeping your fingers
relaxed - there should be little or no bend at your wrist. You'll find
that your fingers spread out naturally and that in order to balance and
hold the pencil, the thumb finds its optimum position, usually opposing
either the second finger or between then second and first fingers.
Nowe replicate that position - and feel - on the guitar.
> Is this simply a case of the more I play the more the hand will strengthen
> and the aching will go away,
No. Pain is a sign you are doing something wrong. The more you do it, the
more chance of injury. Very little 'strength' is required to play the
guitar. Body builders do not make good guitarists.
I tend to wince when I see guitar magazines and such talk about
developing 'strength' when what people are really talking about is things
like developing fine muscular control, finger independence and
efficient motor skills.
'Strength' is used metaphorically really, but it can be misleading.
--
Jon
www.jonboyes.co.uk
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Jon Boyes
ma...@spamsandwich.jonboyes.co.uk says...
> -also, if your hand/wrist is in a decent potion,
Ahem. I do not advocate potions.
David Morley
m...@email.com am 11.06.2002 10:55 Uhr:
> Thanks for all your views, I'll try a few of the suggestions out.
>
> Gary
PS: you probably HAVE to ache to play the blues ;-)
Rick Booth
> Body builders do not make good guitarists.
George Lynch, John Petrucci, Steve Vai or any of the other fine guitar
players who work out a lot might take issue with that. I have heard it
said in all seriousness that muscle development inhibits guitar playing,
which I think is ludicrous. I would certainly agree that body building
doesn't _help_ you to be a good guitarist, except in as much as being
reasonably fit helps you do everything.
> I tend to wince when I see guitar magazines and such talk about
> developing 'strength' when what people are really talking about is
> things like developing fine muscular control, finger independence and
> efficient motor skills.
Well, I think things like string bending, wide vibrato, and even barre
chords (especially with heavy strings or high actions) can cause serious
problems for beginners. It's easy to forget just how much stronger we
are, in certain motions, than people who don't play regularly.
- rfb
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Steve Dix
wrote:
>
>Well, I think things like string bending, wide vibrato, and even barre
>chords (especially with heavy strings or high actions) can cause serious
>problems for beginners. It's easy to forget just how much stronger we
>are, in certain motions, than people who don't play regularly.
>
>- rfb
Strength certainly comes in handy when you're trying to play a
12-string, as well.
--
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steve_cobham
wrote:
>In uk.music.guitar Jon Boyes <ma...@spamsandwich.jonboyes.co.uk> wrote:
>> I tend to wince when I see guitar magazines and such talk about
>> developing 'strength' when what people are really talking about is
>> things like developing fine muscular control, finger independence and
>> efficient motor skills.
>
>Well, I think things like string bending, wide vibrato, and even barre
>chords (especially with heavy strings or high actions) can cause serious
>problems for beginners. It's easy to forget just how much stronger we
>are, in certain motions, than people who don't play regularly.
I agree - there's certainly an element of strength involved, as well
as the qualities that Jon mentions.
Maybe not Superman-type strength, but when doing something like
bending a string, there's a measure of strength required for this
task.
(If you've seen a beginner try to bend a string then it's very obvious
that as well as the correct hand and finger position being necessary
for success, there's also a required level of strength needed that
isn't quite there until more practice has occurred.)
Here's the maths - there's about 7.5kg of tension on a plain third
string. That's nearly the weight of eight large bags of sugar. To push
that one string across the fingerboard, say, one centimetre *does*
require some strength.
That's why most people advocate backing up the third finger with the
first and second fingers whenever possible - it makes the process
easier without putting all the strain on the one finger.
Add to this the likelihood that most people's left hands (if they're
righthanded) are slightly less strong than their right, as most people
use their left hand for holding and steadying whilst they perform the
tasks demanding most strength and dexterity with the right, then the
left hand can be seen as a little less-developed in its musculature.
Regular practice utilising acknowledged and optimum techniques will
bring about more strength and suppleness in the fretting hand, without
recourse to those horrible hand grip devices, which have been shown to
be harmful if used to excess.
Maybe here is a good place to stress the importance of only playing
the guitar if your hands are "warmed up".
A few flexes and gentle stretches - even in summer - are important if
you want to avoid injury.
Steve.
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Jon Boyes
> In uk.music.guitar Jon Boyes <ma...@spamsandwich.jonboyes.co.uk> wrote:
> > Body builders do not make good guitarists.
>
> George Lynch, John Petrucci, Steve Vai or any of the other fine guitar
> players who work out a lot might take issue with that.
I think there's a *big* difference between body building and working out
to keep fit. I wouldn't class any of the above guitarists as body
builders. I work out but I'm hardly Arnold Schwarzennegger.
> I have heard it
> said in all seriousness that muscle development inhibits guitar playing,
> which I think is ludicrous.
Not necessarily, Rick, if the wrong muscle groups are overdeveloped it
can indeed prove a hindrance - as it can in any physical past-time where
you over develop inappropriate muscle groups, or even develop appropriate
muscle groups in the wrong way.
> I would certainly agree that body building
> doesn't _help_ you to be a good guitarist, except in as much as being
> reasonably fit helps you do everything.
Agreed - general fitness is always a plus.
> > I tend to wince when I see guitar magazines and such talk about
> > developing 'strength' when what people are really talking about is
> > things like developing fine muscular control, finger independence and
> > efficient motor skills.
>
> Well, I think things like string bending, wide vibrato, and even barre
> chords (especially with heavy strings or high actions) can cause serious
> problems for beginners.
Yes they can, but what's the solution - ignore the pain and squeeze
harder?
I still say technique is far more important than brute strength eg. with
wide vibrato and bends its more about having good leverage, supporting
the 'bending finger' and a sense of control. I refuse to believe that
barre chords are a strength issue - I can play barre chords without my
thumb touching the backing of the neck so where's the strength involved?
These things come through experimentation (guidance if you have a
teacher) and practice when you start getting it right. If you bring in
issues like high actions, heavy strings etc then you can make an argument
for more strength being necessary, but equally I could argue for lighter
strings and a lower action ;-)
> It's easy to forget just how much stronger we
> are, in certain motions, than people who don't play regularly.
Stronger, or do we just have finer control? I would say I use far less
pressure now to hold down barre chords and indeed left hand fingering in
general than I did years ago - is this because I'm stronger?
OK, I admit, I'm being far too hard on you here and probably appearing
almost blinkered by implying its not a strength issue *at all* - your
examples of vibrato and bends are the key areas where more pressure is
needed and where a degree of strength needs to be built up over time to
facilitate the technique.
..but I just think far too much emphasis is placed on strength
(particularly beginners) and that its too easy for people to use strength
to compensate for poor technique.
Justin Otto
> Seems to me that your fingering is a bit crazy.....
> strings that are being fretted....Try to avoid the other strings or mute
> them.....
Heh heh.
Sorry mate, but the fingering's not crazy, and I suspect that (muted)
open strings are the name of the game here. ;)
E ---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
B ---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
G ---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
D ---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
A ----2---2---4---2----|-2-2--4-2--5-2--4-2--|-2-4-5-2---5-2---4-2-|
E ----0---0---0---0----|-0-0--0-0--0-0--0-0--|-0-0-0-0---0-0---0-0-|
...kind of thing.
Read a great book by Jerry Hendrick (yes, I spelt that right) with a
hundred and one variations and flavours on this form, it's what got me
started playing something recognisable as a tune, rather than the
torturous twisting of yet another song into E, A and D chords (Russ
Shipton must die). Admittedly, I still fail to make some of the
suggested intros, turnarounds and outros sound anything less than
pedastrian - though I think that's my problem rather than an issue
with the book itself.
Hmm, haven't read that in a while... Well, I know what I'm doing
tonight.
Regards,
J.
Fat Sam
"Justin Otto" <justi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5ec66265.02061...@posting.google.com...
> "Fat Sam" <s...@samandjanet.fsworld.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<ae3cs8$8eg$1...@newsg1.svr.pol.co.uk>...
> > Seems to me that your fingering is a bit crazy.....
> > Oops, I should have added....You should really only be hitting the two
> > strings that are being fretted....Try to avoid the other strings or mute
> > them.....
>
> Heh heh.
>
> Sorry mate, but the fingering's not crazy, and I suspect that (muted)
> open strings are the name of the game here. ;)
>
> E ---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
> B ---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
> G ---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
> D ---------------------|---------------------|---------------------|
> A ----2---2---4---2----|-2-2--4-2--5-2--4-2--|-2-4-5-2---5-2---4-2-|
> E ----0---0---0---0----|-0-0--0-0--0-0--0-0--|-0-0-0-0---0-0---0-0-|
>
> ...kind of thing.
That's exactly the same as what I described.....The open E string being the
root.....If you want to start moving it up and down the neck in order to
change the key, you need to barre this note, and that's the only difference
between our two diagrams.....Yours is in E, whereas mine is in G, and can be
moved to anywhere you like.....
> Read a great book by Jerry Hendrick (yes, I spelt that right) with a
> hundred and one variations and flavours on this form, it's what got me
> started playing something recognisable as a tune, rather than the
> torturous twisting of yet another song into E, A and D chords (Russ
> Shipton must die). Admittedly, I still fail to make some of the
> suggested intros, turnarounds and outros sound anything less than
> pedastrian - though I think that's my problem rather than an issue
> with the book itself.
Everyone thinks this way about their own playing mate.....It's human nature
to be over critical of your own art ;-)
I think I'll track that book down.....Amazon here I come....
Rick Booth
> In article <3d05...@news.umist.ac.uk>, richar...@umist.ac.uk says...
>> In uk.music.guitar Jon Boyes <ma...@spamsandwich.jonboyes.co.uk> wrote:
>> > Body builders do not make good guitarists.
>>
>> George Lynch, John Petrucci, Steve Vai or any of the other fine guitar
>> players who work out a lot might take issue with that.
>
> I think there's a *big* difference between body building and working out
> to keep fit.
There is, but then body building isn't really related to strength all
that much either.
> I wouldn't class any of the above guitarists as body
> builders.
Have you seen George Lynch recently? He's pretty big.
>> I have heard it said in all seriousness that muscle development inhibits
>> guitar playing, which I think is ludicrous.
>
> Not necessarily, Rick, if the wrong muscle groups are overdeveloped it
> can indeed prove a hindrance - as it can in any physical past-time where
> you over develop inappropriate muscle groups, or even develop appropriate
> muscle groups in the wrong way.
In what way does having big muscles hinder guitar playing? I'd love an
explanation of that.
>> Well, I think things like string bending, wide vibrato, and even barre
>> chords (especially with heavy strings or high actions) can cause serious
>> problems for beginners.
>
> I still say technique is far more important than brute strength eg. with
> wide vibrato and bends its more about having good leverage, supporting
> the 'bending finger' and a sense of control.
Agreed, of course.
> I refuse to believe that barre chords are a strength issue - I can play
> barre chords without my thumb touching the backing of the neck so
> where's the strength involved?
Well, you're certainly applying the pressure in some way. I can play
barre chords without touching the back of the neck too, but that seems to
me to require more strength than using the thumb.
>> It's easy to forget just how much stronger we
>> are, in certain motions, than people who don't play regularly.
>
> Stronger, or do we just have finer control?
Both.
> I would say I use far less pressure now to hold down barre chords and
> indeed left hand fingering in general than I did years ago - is this
> because I'm stronger?
No, that's because you have a better grasp of what's actually required.
But it doesn't mean you're _not_ stronger, and in possession of more
endurance.
> OK, I admit, I'm being far too hard on you here and probably appearing
> almost blinkered by implying its not a strength issue *at all* - your
> examples of vibrato and bends are the key areas where more pressure is
> needed and where a degree of strength needs to be built up over time to
> facilitate the technique.
I was annoyed by your "bodybuilder" comment, which I think is completely
wrong. And, as you say, strength _is_ an issue. But I agree with your
main point, that it's less of an issue that people usually think.
- rfb
--
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Did I just say that?
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Jon Boyes
groups in the wrong way.
> In what way does having big muscles hinder guitar playing? I'd love an
> explanation of that.
First of all, muscle groups work in pairs, those that move limbs in one
direction and those that can oppose that movement and move the limb in
the opposite direction should the joint allow it.
Leaving aside guitar playing for one minute, let's say you take part in
a pastime which involves making very fast flexions with your biceps,
about one per second (no laughing at the back, please...) . Lets also
assume that no heavy lifting is required for this movement, the aim is
rapid, repeated contractions against little or no resistance.
If you over developed your triceps (the antagonist muscle) through heavy
weight training you could actually be hindering the movement you need to
accomplish. Both muscle groups would need to be developed to accomplish
an efficient flexion/extension but if the movement is not continuous as
above, the flexion part is more important as the forearm can relax into
its starting position under its own weight (rather than involving active
extension and unnecessaryy build up of muscle against muscle tension).
*Or* if you developed those muscles by lifting very heavy weights -
something you can only manage 7 - 10 reps before muscle failure - then
you are developing those muscles in the wrong way for your activity. It
will be good for slow movements against resistance, but not good for
fast, light movements you need. A better way to go would probably be to
train with very light weights, doing fast reps. Yet for developing
*strength* (and building muscle mass) one tends to train in the former
way whilst the latter way is good for general tone.
I realise that a good athlete will aim for a balanced training regime,
but nevertheless those are two examples in which apparently developing
strength could hinder the performance of give activity -developing the
wrong muscles, or the right ones in the wrong way.
Getting back to the guitar, for the most part the movements required to
play are light, precise, co-ordinated and occasionally rapid -in other
words very fine muscular control is needed, against very little
resistance. (In CG circles people often talk about developing ballistic
movements - rapid contractions that are instantly relaxed to minimise
effort and avoid the build up of tension).
Most of the movements required to play guitar are generated by the
forearm flexors and extensors that control the fingers. Applying my
examples above, I would argue that its quite possible to build muscles
that would inhibit playing the guitar, mainly through a desire to build
strength in the lower forearm when strength per se is not really a
requirement.
> > OK, I admit, I'm being far too hard on you here and probably appearing
> > almost blinkered by implying its not a strength issue *at all* - your
> > examples of vibrato and bends are the key areas where more pressure is
> > needed and where a degree of strength needs to be built up over time to
> > facilitate the technique.
>
> I was annoyed by your "bodybuilder" comment, which I think is completely
> wrong.
Admittedly a tad sweeping ;-)
I do occasionally toss in a slightly controversial comment in debates
about technique/playing where I think there is a mythology that has
developed that needs to be challenged. Many beginners (and quite a lot of
more experienced players) see playing the guitar as an athletic rather
than an artistic endeavour.
steve_cobham
(Jon Boyes) wrote:
>In article <3d05...@news.umist.ac.uk>, richar...@umist.ac.uk says...
>> It's easy to forget just how much stronger we
>> are, in certain motions, than people who don't play regularly.
>
>Stronger, or do we just have finer control? I would say I use far less
>pressure now to hold down barre chords and indeed left hand fingering in
>general than I did years ago - is this because I'm stronger?
Might this lesser pressure be more of a shift in your perception
because you're stronger than you were?
Jon Boyes
says...
> >Stronger, or do we just have finer control? I would say I use far less
> >pressure now to hold down barre chords and indeed left hand fingering in
> >general than I did years ago - is this because I'm stronger?
>
> Might this lesser pressure be more of a shift in your perception
> because you're stronger than you were?
Nope. I occasionally practice scales around the neck without my thumb
touching the back of the neck at all. I don't think I would have been
able to do that years ago, I would have needed the security of the
squeezing sensation between thumb and forefingers, particularly on the
weaker fingers.
I consciously aim for a lighter touch whenever I pick up the guitar - one
of the things my last classical guitar teacher encouraged me to do was to
use *only* enough pressure (left hand fingering) for the note to sound,
as any more is wasted effort and can interfere with a smooth technique in
a variety of ways. He showed me this little exercise that enables you to
feel, and learn, just how little pressure is necessary.
It was very liberating - its freed up my left hand considerably.
Niall Tracey
news:7hsbguc4d49orhpot...@4ax.com...
> (If you've seen a beginner try to bend a string then it's very obvious
> that as well as the correct hand and finger position being necessary
> for success, there's also a required level of strength needed that
> isn't quite there until more practice has occurred.)
>
> Here's the maths - there's about 7.5kg of tension on a plain third
> string. That's nearly the weight of eight large bags of sugar. To push
> that one string across the fingerboard, say, one centimetre *does*
> require some strength.
Well, it's probably more because they're locking their hands on the neck and
thus can't move their wrists freely enough to bend without using the
fingers. It's not difficult to turn your wrist with *any* weight in it --
wrist turning is all about leverage, and with a thin string you have a good
fulcrum.
Titch.
Jose I. de las Heras
>
[...]
> I consciously aim for a lighter touch whenever I pick up the guitar - one
> of the things my last classical guitar teacher encouraged me to do was to
> use *only* enough pressure (left hand fingering) for the note to sound,
> as any more is wasted effort and can interfere with a smooth technique in
> a variety of ways. He showed me this little exercise that enables you to
> feel, and learn, just how little pressure is necessary.
>
> It was very liberating - its freed up my left hand considerably.
this thread is getting more interesting.
what was this exercise? (if it's not complicated to explain in
writing...)
Jose
Jon Boyes
> Jon Boyes wrote:
> > It was very liberating - its freed up my left hand considerably.
>
> this thread is getting more interesting.
> what was this exercise? (if it's not complicated to explain in
> writing...)
Very simple, you can do this with any scale or any sequence of notes:
Place your left hand fingers just above the third string, covering frets
7 to 10 (I'll use this position as the dip in the neck helps).
(a) Slowly place each finger in turn gently onto the string (not down to
the fret) and pick/pluck it - as if you were playing a harmonic. Ascend
then descend, placing and removing each finger in turn (Ie you should
never have more than one finger on the string at any one time).
This should be done slowly, its important to feel the tiny amount of
pressure each finger applies, the string should hardly move.
(b) Repeat, but this time fret each note 7-10 with a tiny amount of
pressure so that the string is barely in contact with the fret wire and
each note actually buzzes - not through the force of your pluck, which
should be gentle. Do this one a couple of times to try and control it -if
the note rings cleanly you are pressing too hard, if the note is dead
like before, not hard enough.
(c) When you can do (b) consistently, increase the pressure *only enough*
so that each note rings cleanly and doesn't buzz. This should be a
fraction more pressure than that applied in b.
The point of this is that it teaches you to feel just how little pressure
is needed to fret a note and its also a good exercise for finger
independence. I found it helped to free up my fingering hand to move more
smoothly and effortlessly around the fretboard, particularly when I
applied it to scales. I often use it as a warm up, particularly after a
hard days graft when the tendency is to pick up the guitar and thrash
away.
It has to be taken slowly though, as you are teaching your self to
discriminate between tiny differences in pressure, and apply only what's
needed. This will be harder for people who have played heavy handed for a
long time.
Simple, kinesthetic feedback - no racing against metronomes, and no
steroids ;-)
Rick Booth
[snip excellent exercise]
> The point of this is that it teaches you to feel just how little pressure
> is needed to fret a note and its also a good exercise for finger
> independence. I found it helped to free up my fingering hand to move more
> smoothly and effortlessly around the fretboard, particularly when I
> applied it to scales.
I did this for a while a few years ago, having seen this very exercise in
a magazine. It's amazing how much easier playing is when you're not using
more pressure than you need... especially on electrics with fairly low
actions.
It's also quite surprising how little force you need to put into
hammerons, if you have any compression or gain going on. People tend to
try to hit them really hard, but it just isn't necessary - and it makes
getting that fluid Satriani-style speed much easier.
The disadvantage of playing this way a lot is that when switching to
something more physically demanding - acoustic, say, or bass - I find my
hands get tired quite quickly if I've only been playing my electrics
recently. I used to do all my three-note-per-string scale practice and
arpeggio practice on twelve-string acoustic, for exactly this reason -
when you go back to electric, it's just _so_ easy!
- rfb
--
ri...@rfbooth.com http://www.rfbooth.com/ Don't try this at home.
When my main Inbox folder hits 2000 messages, I sit bolt upright for 16
hours and cause it to contain less than 200 messages.
-- Jamie Zawinski on time management
Steve Dix
wrote:
>Jon Boyes <ma...@spamsandwich.jonboyes.co.uk> wrote:
>
>[snip excellent exercise]
>
>
>The disadvantage of playing this way a lot is that when switching to
>something more physically demanding - acoustic, say, or bass - I find my
>hands get tired quite quickly if I've only been playing my electrics
>recently. I used to do all my three-note-per-string scale practice and
>arpeggio practice on twelve-string acoustic, for exactly this reason -
>when you go back to electric, it's just _so_ easy!
>
>- rfb
I've just gone back to practicing on the Rick 12 again and the amount
of pressure to get a nice clean note is noticably considerably more -
I've let my 12-string chops slide, unfortunately. Several people
remarked that the way to 6-string dexterity was to play a 12 on the
alt.rickenbacker group and I can well believe it. After a couple of
months on the Rick and my appalling 12-string acoustic I can crack
walnuts with my fingers... ;->
Jose I. de las Heras
Thank you Jon. I think I'm going to give it a try. It makes sense...
Jose