"Twangy" guitar sound - how?
Cyril
Just had a swift google (ah! that's better!) but I couldn't find what I was
looking for, hence this question - I hope someone can help.
It should be an easy one to answer - but does anyone know how to get that
sort of "twangy" guitar sound from late 1950s / early 1960s records -
typically used by Hank Marvin on the Shadows' early hits (Apache, Man of
Mystery, Wonderful Land, etc.)?
I have a Zoom GFX707 so if anyone can point me to a patch that gives this
sound, I'd be grateful. I found a site that had various GFX707 patches on it
but there wasn't one for this sound, that I could find, anyway. I assume
that in those pre-FX box days they just used to use reverb etc. on their
amps. Any suggestions?
(Told you it was a simple question!)
TIA
Cyril
T N Nurse
<cy...@noSPAMfixedabode.com> wrote:
Strat. Very clean tone. Some reverb and a little delay.
Stewart Ward gets a pretty good take on that tone with his Sessionette amp
a Squier Strat plus a Zoom505, so it can be done without expensive effects.
steve_cobham
Very clean sound, a touch of reverb - in Hank's case some tape delay -
and rather heavier strings than most of us are used to these days.
I'm sure people have some other suggestions.
Steve.
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JNugent
> <cy...@noSPAMfixedabode.com> wrote:
>> ...does anyone know how to get
>> that sort of "twangy" guitar sound from late 1950s / early 1960s
>> records - typically used by Hank Marvin on the Shadows' early hits
>> (Apache, Man of Mystery, Wonderful Land, etc.)?
>> I have a Zoom GFX707 so if anyone can point me to a patch that gives
>> this sound, I'd be grateful. I found a site that had various GFX707
>> patches on it but there wasn't one for this sound, that I could
>> find, anyway. I assume that in those pre-FX box days they just used
>> to use reverb etc. on their amps. Any suggestions?
>
> Very clean sound, a touch of reverb - in Hank's case some tape delay -
> and rather heavier strings than most of us are used to these days.
> I'm sure people have some other suggestions.
Indeed...
I think the OP was concerned with a general "early sixties" sound, rather
then necessarily wishing to exactly reproduce Hank's early sound (no easy or
even cheap task). But even though other well-known early sixties
instrumental groups used a variety of other guitars (eg, Gibson, Gretsch,
Hofner and Guild, as well as the Shadows-influenced Fender), most of them
were attempting to get the Shadows sound to some extent.
The classic "live" Shadows sound is not dependent upon reverb. In their
heyday, convincing reverb (other than the sort produced by a Hammond spring
built into the amp - and they didn't use amps with built-in reverb) was
simply not available for live work. Instead, Hank's live sound was
characterised by being drenched in repeat echo - and more precisely, in the
sound of the early Meazzi (and later Binson) drum echo units, which
definitely give a sound which is very difficult to replicate by any other
means, mainly due to the very distinctive distortion on the repeats, as well
as the precise arrangement of the replay heads. Listen to the middle eight
of "Wonderful Land" - that is THE sound of the Meazzi. Though some current
digital units (notably the Alesis Q2 or 20, programmed with "Echoes from the
Past") are claimed to come close, only the real thing really does it
properly.
I don't know much about the Zoom GFX707 (in fact, I know next to nothing
about it), but if it will provide a reasonable Copicat-type repeat echo (and
I expect it will), it should be easy to get close to the generic early
sixties retro-instrumental guitar sound (I manage to do it with a Zoom 505,
though I also have have other, bulkier, delay equipment).
After that, you need a reasonably clean-sounding amp. I wouldn't worry to
much about the make - I have a genuine Vox AC30, but usually prefer to use
my more-versatile and much-louder Peavey 200 watt combo.
As for the guitar... well... many classic records were made using
semi-acoustics (eg, the Dakotas' "The Cruel Sea" or the KrewKats'
"Trambone"), or arch-top acoustics outfitted with an add-on DeArmond pickup
(eg, "Move It" or "The James Bond Theme"), or even a solid Hofner (eg, the
Cougars' "Saturday Nite At The Duckpond"). It doesn't *have* to be a
Stratocaster!
As long as the guitar is fitted with newish strings, and preferably has a
vibrato unit of some sort - whether a Strat type or a Bigsby - you are most
of the way there.
If you really want the full, zipped-up, anorak version, try reading the
message board at
http://groups.msn.com/shadowmusic/frequentlyasked.msnw?all_topics=1&pgmarket
=en-gb
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George Weston
"Cyril" <cy...@noSPAMfixedabode.com> wrote in message
news:10275243...@ernani.logica.co.uk...
You'll need a strat, of course, an amp that gives a good clean sound, plus
an effects unit that gives some good delay settings. Zoom used to do one -
the 508 (delay) unit but you'll have to look for a second-hand one because
for some silly reason, Zoom discontinued them a couple of years ago. A firm
called Shadowsland even had some 508s specially pre-programmed with Shadows
echoes. However, on checking their website,
http://www.shadowsland.freeserve.co.uk/zoom508.html even those are sold out
too. You might be lucky if you scan the "for sale" section of the MSN group
"Shadowmusic" http://www.shadowmusic.co.uk/ from time to time.
Happy hunting!
George
Cyril
> It should be an easy one to answer - but does anyone know how to get that
> sort of "twangy" guitar sound from late 1950s / early 1960s records -
> typically used by Hank Marvin on the Shadows' early hits (Apache, Man of
> Mystery, Wonderful Land, etc.)?
>
> I have a Zoom GFX707 so if anyone can point me to a patch that gives this
> sound, I'd be grateful. I found a site that had various GFX707 patches on
it
> but there wasn't one for this sound, that I could find, anyway. I assume
> that in those pre-FX box days they just used to use reverb etc. on their
> amps. Any suggestions?
>
Guys - thanks to all for your replies so far. Well, I don't expect to be
able to copy ol' HM exactly, especially as I don't have a Strat or even a
guitar with a vibrato unit (mine's actually an Epi LP). But I'm not
intending to do Shadows covers, I was just using that as an example of the
sort of sound I was aiming for.
So I guess I'll try the "Strat" setting on the '707 and experiment by
programming a bit of extra reverb and /or delay, and see how I get on - I'll
let you know if you're interested. Meanwhile, if anyone *does* find a 707
patch for the sound, please let me know!
Thanks again.
Cyril
icarusi
> But I'm not
> intending to do Shadows covers, I was just using that as an example of
the
> sort of sound I was aiming for.
There are quite a few twangy sounds to try such as Eddie Cochran's
'Summertime Blues', most of Buddy Holly's tunes, Brian Setzer's stuff with
Stray Cats and his own Orchestra, Duane Eddie etc. Most of the guitars
differ apart from clean treble-ish sound new-ish strings and a bit of
slap-back echo. I usually find just the clean trebly sound and a bit of
slap-back echo is enough (with some trem bar 'wobble' if you have one),
especially when compared to most OD current guitar sounds, although it
might not convince an old time rocker.
Icarusi
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Stewart Ward
<cy...@noSPAMfixedabode.com> writes
>Meanwhile, if anyone *does* find a 707
>patch for the sound, please let me know!
That's not likely, as few of the delay units around have four separate
repeats, which are essential for this kind of sound. Not even original
CopyCat echoes do it that well.
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George Geddes
(Zoom 508 programmed by Geoff Strachan or Alan Jackson/Alesis Q20 with
Echoes from the Past - as used by Hank nowadays -
or Amtech) plus Vox or similar 'clean' amp.
Plenty more advice at http://groups.msn.com/ShadowMusic
George
Cyril <cy...@noSPAMfixedabode.com> wrote in message
news:10275243...@ernani.logica.co.uk...
JNugent
> Fender Strat/ Burns Marvin/Legend (or Marquee if on a budget), echo
> box (Zoom 508 programmed by Geoff Strachan or Alan Jackson/Alesis Q20
> with Echoes from the Past - as used by Hank nowadays -
> or Amtech) plus Vox or similar 'clean' amp.
>
> Plenty more advice at http://groups.msn.com/ShadowMusic
Bloomin' 'eck, George!
Long time no see in UKMG...
Peter Barlow
At one time, people got the sound by using a fender strat connected up to
either a Wem copycat or Binson Echorec which were echo machines thet worked
by recoding the notes on a continuous loop of magnetic tape and playeing
them back at a pre defined interval. You should be able to mimc the effect
on the Zoom by just creating a dela of somewher between 200 & 450
milliseconds. Try mixing in a littel reverb. Them yankeed like Dick Dale did
it differently though, tending to have heavy stings on the strat ( or fender
jaguar) and having it totally awash with reverb.
Get plucking
Pete
"Cyril" <cy...@noSPAMfixedabode.com> wrote in message
news:10275243...@ernani.logica.co.uk...
Steve Dix
<Peter....@ukgateway.net> wrote:
>Eezy Peezy
>At one time, people got the sound by using a fender strat connected up to
>either a Wem copycat or Binson Echorec which were echo machines thet worked
>by recoding the notes on a continuous loop of magnetic tape and playeing
>them back at a pre defined interval. You should be able to mimc the effect
>on the Zoom by just creating a dela of somewher between 200 & 450
>milliseconds.
If you really want to mimic a tape reverb, you'll have to program in a
little attenuation of the bass and treble, to mimic the effect of
repeated recording/playback by the tape. Alternatively it's fairly
easy to adapt a cheap tape player to act as an echo. Robert Fripp
took the effect to extreme with "frippertronics" which was done with
two reel-to-reel tape recorders, one recording, and one playing. He
varied the delay by the distance between the two tape recorders. He
could then record himself playing, and by the time the playback came
up he could play over it. Nowadays you can do the same thing with one
pedal.
>Try mixing in a littel reverb. Them yankeed like Dick Dale did
>it differently though, tending to have heavy stings on the strat ( or fender
>jaguar) and having it totally awash with reverb.
>
The American sound usually relied on spring reverb - a metal spring
with a transducer and a pickup on opposite ends. This gives more of a
wash of reverb, compared to the repeat echoes that tape machines are
capable of.
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George Weston
"Cyril" <cy...@noSPAMfixedabode.com> wrote in message
news:10275243...@ernani.logica.co.uk...
There's a Zoom 508 pre-programmed with Shadows echoes for sale right now.
Go to
http://groups.msn.com/ShadowMusic/general.msnw?action=get_message&mview=0&ID
_Message=47843&LastModified=4675382866122844045
Stewart Ward
<icar...@hotmail.com> writes
>> That's not likely, as few of the delay units around have four
>separate
>> repeats, which are essential for this kind of sound. Not even
>original
>> CopyCat echoes do it that well.
>
>delays, but Adrian can proabably tell us more?
>
>Icarusi
I've just heard from Geoff Strachan that he's working on Shads programs
for this very machine. It's a tad more expensive than the 508, but
should be a lot better. Price is not everything!
Incidently, we have just started shipping Stockton (Shads) combos again,
after a six month rest. Contact Geoff for availability details - 01763
271 921.