Folk Songs to Christmas Carol Tunes
Graham Dixon
fitted Christmas Carol tunes and vice versa. I can't remember what they were
(it happens when you pass 45) can anyone refresh my memory?
Graham
Marjorie Clarke
"Graham Dixon" <troubl...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9vih2o$sgc$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
I don't remember it being on this ng (but then I have also passed that
milestone you mention!) but there must be loads. Many carols are in fact
trad tunes, in very ordinary song metres, and would be interchangeable with
folk songs.
The metre of 'While Shepherds Watched', for example, is similar to "Nuttting
Girl" or "Jolly Beggarman", which could therefore be sung to any of its many
tunes. And the tune of "O Little Town of Bethlehem" fits similar words.
Or try "Pleasant and Delightful" or "Wild Rover" to the tune of "Now the
Holly Bears a Berry".
Sounds like a good idea for a quiz show. You could call it "One Song to the
Tune of Another"....
--
Marjorie Clarke
To reply, remove nospam from address
Jim Champ
>I don't remember it being on this ng (but then I have also passed that
>milestone you mention!) but there must be loads. Many carols are in fact
>trad tunes,
More to the point many of the popular Carols *are* by any reasonably
definition, folk somgs. Trad tunes, trad words, orally handed down
before they were written : what more could you want... Unless you
think that as soon as someone publishes a version of a folk song it
ceases to be folk... so much for all those broadsheet ballads then!
Jim C
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Jacey Bedford
<troubl...@btinternet.com> writes
British Grenadiers
The Can Can
Dambusters March
Doh a Deer
Pinball Wizard
erm . . . not exactly folk tunes but . . .
. . . and it fits pretty much hundreds of folk tunes including White
Cockade (which also swaps very neatly with Pinball Wizard) and Star of
the County Down.
>
>
--
jacey
Ian Dedic
tradition of massed carols in the pubs, "While Shepherds" has been recorded
to at least 7 different traditional tunes -- so there's nothing new in the
world, then...
Ian Dedic
"Jacey Bedford" <Art...@artisan-harmony.com> wrote in message
news:zRZnhHEY...@artifact.demon.co.uk...
Stephen Bamford
"Graham Dixon" <troubl...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:9vih2o$sgc$1...@paris.btinternet.com...
others with a Christmas theme, and among other things they did a couple of
traditional tunes which were originally dance tunes, but are better known as
Christmas Carols. Sorry to be vague about the details (I also suffer from
an "over 45 memory loss syndrome"), but I remember one of them was the tune
normally associated with "Deck The Hall with Boughs of Holly"
Maybe someone else can supply some more details?
Cheers,
Steve
paul draper
"Ian Dedic" <news....@dedics.co.uk> wrote in message
news:vajT7.21926$pU3.2...@news2-win.server.ntlworld.com...
> In the villages neat Sheffield where there is an almost unique
long-standing
> tradition of massed carols in the pubs, "While Shepherds" has been
recorded
> to at least 7 different traditional tunes -- so there's nothing new in the
> world, then...
Liz has just got a book of carols from the area, a lot notated from
Stannington. It has 12 different settings of "While Shepherds.." and the
"standard" one isn't in it.
Paul Draper
Dave Fawthrop
"Jacey Bedford" <Art...@artisan-harmony.com> wrote in message
news:zRZnhHEY...@artifact.demon.co.uk...
Artisan sort of throw out a While Shepherds Watched challenge at their
Christmas shows. At least they did at Penistone last Saturday.
I have been thinking about shouting out "The Hallelujah Chorus".
Perhaps next year.
BTW it was a great show.
--
Dave Fawthrop <da...@hyphenologist.co.uk>
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Please check when you reply to *any* post that the newsgroups line contains
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Marjorie Clarke
"Stephen Bamford" <Steve....@care4free.net> wrote in message
news:3c1dde5c$0$236$cc9e...@news.dial.pipex.com...
> >
> A couple of years ago I saw a live show by John Kirkpatrick and various
> others with a Christmas theme, and among other things they did a couple of
> traditional tunes which were originally dance tunes, but are better known
as
> Christmas Carols. Sorry to be vague about the details (I also suffer from
> an "over 45 memory loss syndrome"), but I remember one of them was the
tune
> normally associated with "Deck The Hall with Boughs of Holly"
I have a recording (from the radio I think, so I don't have the record
details) of John K playing a three-tune set: Deck the Halls, Ding-dong
Merrily, and Good King Wenceslas. Works very well as a session set at
Christmas.
Anahata
>
>I have a recording (from the radio I think, so I don't have the record
>details) of John K playing a three-tune set: Deck the Halls, Ding-dong
>Merrily, and Good King Wenceslas. Works very well as a session set at
>Christmas.
The CD is called 'Wassail'. Not surprisingly, a selection of seasonal
tunes and songs which cam out abou two years ago. I'm sure it can be
found in the shops right now!
--
Anahata
ana...@treewind.co.uk -*- http://www.treewind.co.uk
+44 (0)1638 720444 (h) -*- 07976 263827 (m)
bogus address
> A couple of years ago I saw a live show by John Kirkpatrick and various
> others with a Christmas theme, and among other things they did a couple
> of traditional tunes which were originally dance tunes, but are better
> known as Christmas Carols.
"Ding D*ng Merrily on High" apparently started life as a French dance
tune quoted in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" (I haven't gone looking for it).
The asterisk? - according to something in the RISKS Digest recently,
some large company's carol-singing group was frustrated in its efforts
to arrange a practice via email by putting that song in the programme.
The corporate censorware wouldn't let them sing about d*ngs.
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
Richard Robinson
>
>> A couple of years ago I saw a live show by John Kirkpatrick and various
>> others with a Christmas theme, and among other things they did a couple
>> of traditional tunes which were originally dance tunes, but are better
>> known as Christmas Carols.
>
>"Ding D*ng Merrily on High" apparently started life as a French dance
>tune quoted in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" (I haven't gone looking for it).
>
>The asterisk? - according to something in the RISKS Digest recently,
>some large company's carol-singing group was frustrated in its efforts
>to arrange a practice via email by putting that song in the programme.
>The corporate censorware wouldn't let them sing about d*ngs.
<grin>
Sorry, luv, luminous noses is off.
--
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem
Ian Dedic
Ian
PS. Any advance on 12, anyone?
"paul draper" <pdr...@gaum.co.uk> wrote in message
news:JVlT7.19992$0A4.1...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
Pete Young
>The asterisk? - according to something in the RISKS Digest recently,
>some large company's carol-singing group was frustrated in its efforts
>to arrange a practice via email by putting that song in the programme.
>The corporate censorware wouldn't let them sing about d*ngs.
Ho ho ho. I also heard this, apparently about a Police choir. Presumably
not one based in Scunthorpe, Penistone or anywhere like that.
There are indeed some surprising tunes used for Xmas carols. Last night
we played one of the ones in the book that doesn't get played very
often, Three Kings, and it turns out to be something by Bizet. Can't
remember the name of it, but it goes Dum Dum Dum, Da Dum Da Dum Da Dee.
At least, that's the Eb bass part!
Regards
Pete
--
____________________________________________________________________
Pete Young pe...@antipope.org
"Just another crouton, floating on the bouillabaisse of life"
Marjorie Clarke
"bogus address" <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:84...@purr.demon.co.uk...
>
>
> > A couple of years ago I saw a live show by John Kirkpatrick and various
> > others with a Christmas theme, and among other things they did a couple
> > of traditional tunes which were originally dance tunes, but are better
> > known as Christmas Carols.
>
> "Ding D*ng Merrily on High" apparently started life as a French dance
> tune quoted in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" (I haven't gone looking for it).
>
> The asterisk? - according to something in the RISKS Digest recently,
> some large company's carol-singing group was frustrated in its efforts
> to arrange a practice via email by putting that song in the programme.
> The corporate censorware wouldn't let them sing about d*ngs.
Sorry for the inadvertently obscene post, then! It will obviously have to be
performed with a buzzer to delete the offending syllable.
At least the software wasn't set up to substitute another word. Apparently
in certain functions/sites of AOL, suspect syllables are replaced with
"lollipop" or "stuff"; The result is that "Scunthorpe" becomes
"Slollipophorpe" and "Cumbria" is rendered as "Stuffbria".
Faith
> we played one of the ones in the book that doesn't get played very
> often, Three Kings, and it turns out to be something by Bizet.
L'Arlesienne (sp?). I remember learning that in the 50s on Singing
Together................or was it Rhythm & Melody? :-)
"One fine day, as I went on my way,
I met three Kings and they were Eastern sages.
At break of day, as I went on my way,
I met three Kings and all their grand array.
And first of all came the guards so tall,
Then men-at-arms and their thirty little pages.
And first of all came the guards so tall,
Then men-at-arms and all their pages small."
I think that's right, but I've been to sleep several times since then!!
Faith
paul draper
"Faith" <fa...@xenopus.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1008677808.21619....@news.demon.co.uk...
> "Pete Young"> wrote in message Last night
> > we played one of the ones in the book that doesn't get played very
> > often, Three Kings, and it turns out to be something by Bizet.
>
> L'Arlesienne (sp?). I remember learning that in the 50s on Singing
> Together................or was it Rhythm & Melody? :-)
It was Bizet but I think he used traditional Provencal tunes. Farandole was
the name of the piece and it was in the opera L'Arllesienne.
Jon
bogus address <bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > A couple of years ago I saw a live show by John Kirkpatrick and various
> > others with a Christmas theme, and among other things they did a couple
> > of traditional tunes which were originally dance tunes, but are better
> > known as Christmas Carols.
> "Ding D*ng Merrily on High" apparently started life as a French dance
> tune quoted in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" (I haven't gone looking for it).
IIRC, it was the tune to the Peasants Bransle, or maybe the Official
Bransle.
One or the other....
Jon.
--
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Home of the Fairport Convention mailing list FAQs
Pete Young
>"Faith" <fa...@xenopus.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:1008677808.21619....@news.demon.co.uk...
>> L'Arlesienne (sp?). I remember learning that in the 50s on Singing
>> Together................or was it Rhythm & Melody? :-)
>It was Bizet but I think he used traditional Provencal tunes. Farandole was
>the name of the piece and it was in the opera L'Arllesienne.
That's the one. Yet again I'm amazed and impressed by the depth
of knowledge and speed of response of many of the contributors to
this newsgroup. Long may it continue. Thank you very much.
Barry Callaghan
Dedic <news....@dedics.co.uk> writes
>Goody goody, another 5 to try out then...
>
>Ian
>
>PS. Any advance on 12, anyone?
Probably nearer 25 -30 that are reasonably current,, not counting the
'let's do it for a challenge' tunes....
The favourite thing to remind people of at this juncture is that the
tune we now sing 'Ilkley Moor' to was initially written as a setting of
While Shepherds, name of Cranbrook. (Ilkley Moor words, for those who
might not know, are by, AIR, the son of the President of the Yorkshire
Dialect Society in about 1912)
Barry
>
--
Barry Callaghan
Peter Hughes
news:4aead309...@argonet.co.uk...
>
> > "Ding D*ng Merrily on High" apparently started life as a French dance
> > tune quoted in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" (I haven't gone looking for
it).
>
> IIRC, it was the tune to the Peasants Bransle, or maybe the Official
> Bransle.
> One or the other....
It's Bransle d'Official fromThoinot Arbeau's 'Orchesographie', though I
believe it's been published in other places too. Always a nice tune to
throw into a set, whatever time of year.
Online info here:
http://users.erols.com/eacain/dance/Arbeau1.html
HTH
Peter.
Jon
Peter Hughes <peter.j...@bt.com> wrote:
> "Jon" <jgh...@argonet.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:4aead309...@argonet.co.uk...
> >
> > > "Ding D*ng Merrily on High" apparently started life as a French dance
> > > tune quoted in Arbeau's "Orchesographie" (I haven't gone looking for
> it).
> >
> > IIRC, it was the tune to the Peasants Bransle, or maybe the Official
> > Bransle.
> > One or the other....
> It's Bransle d'Official fromThoinot Arbeau's 'Orchesographie',
Yes, thanks for the confirmation. I used to teach these dances to kids
about 20 years ago!
Got all the tunes on a French vinyl recording.
Jon
Jacey Bedford
Dedic <news....@dedics.co.uk> writes
>In the villages neat Sheffield where there is an almost unique long-standing
>tradition of massed carols in the pubs, "While Shepherds" has been recorded
>to at least 7 different traditional tunes -- so there's nothing new in the
>world, then...
There are over 36 different version at the last count, I believe - not
counting our 'personal' ones. We've recorded two 'real' ones ourselves
(to Ilkley Moor and also the Hail Chime On version) We do, after all,
come from South Yorkshire, so with the Can Can etc. all we're doing is
expanding on the tradition.
:-)
Jacey
--
Jacey Bedford Art...@artisan-harmony.com
ARTISAN www.artisan-harmony.com
10 Park Head, Birdsedge, Huddersfield, UK, HD8 8XW
Ph 01484 606230 Fax: 01484 606290
From outside UK prefix with 44 and drop first zero
"Artisan - cheaper than therapy and better than beer." Rural Arts East
Jacey Bedford
Bamford <Steve....@care4free.net> writes
IIRC, the word carol apparently comes from the French word, 'caroller'
meaning to dance in a ring. I read this in the intro to the 1940s
version of the Oxford Book of Carols. Many carols (carols as opposed to
Christmas hymns) were originally dance tunes. The Holly and the Ivy, for
one, and probably I Saw Three Ships.
Geraldine Legard
> >
> We do While Shepherds Watched to:
> British Grenadiers
> The Can Can
> Dambusters March
> Doh a Deer
> Pinball Wizard
> erm . . . not exactly folk tunes but . . .
>
sunday lunchtime. in the evening, an enthusiast from harrogate arranged,
with friends from the Flag and Bone Gang morris men, an evening of south
yorkshire carols in the Mother Shipton's in nearby Knaresborough. They sang
Whilst Shepherds Watched to the tune of Ghost Riders in the Sky (do you
remenber it from Uncle Mac? Think really hard, now!) Worked pretty well and
a fab time was had by all. Thanks, F&BG.
Happy Christmas all
Best wishes
Geraldine Legard
PS Mike Harding Show on at the moment. The usual mix of stuff that's been on
several times before and breathy lasses. Ho hum ...........
Jim Lawton
<troubl...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>Last year there were a few examples posted, on this NG, of folk songs that
>fitted Christmas Carol tunes and vice versa. I can't remember what they were
>(it happens when you pass 45) can anyone refresh my memory?
>
>Graham
Well, I never thought of folk songs to carol tunes before, but the
human brain is a wondeful thing, and has just delivered up to me
"Westlin' Winds" to the tune of "Little Town of Bethlehem"
Jim
>
>
>
>
Dick Gaughan
17:07:21 GMT, jla...@tabbytail.freeserve.co.ukN*O*SPAM (Jim
Lawton) wrote:
>Well, I never thought of folk songs to carol tunes before, but the
>human brain is a wondeful thing, and has just delivered up to me
>"Westlin' Winds" to the tune of "Little Town of Bethlehem"
Now that I would really like to hear. You have to sing it to me
sometime :)
--
DG
Marjorie Clarke
I can now tell you with some confidence that "Wild Rover" can be sung to
the tune of "God Rest Ye Merry".
I know this because I heard it done last night, and was partly implicated in
it. You have to be a bit creative with the last line, and leave out a couple
of syllables.
wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
marj...@theclarkes99nospam.freeserve.co.uk (Marjorie Clarke) wrote:
> An addition to the list:
>
> I can now tell you with some confidence that "Wild Rover" can be sung
> to
> the tune of "God Rest Ye Merry".
> I know this because I heard it done last night, and was partly
> implicated in
> it. You have to be a bit creative with the last line, and leave out a
> couple
> of syllables.
>
If you're looking for whacked-out Christmas songs, may I suggest "Oy to
the World!" by the Klezmonauts, which recasts the traditional carols in
total Jewish mode? It's *very* funny *and* brilliant music at the same
time.
wg
Jacey Bedford
writes
Where from?
Web site?
Sounds like something that would solve a belated Christmas present
problem for a wacky Jewish American DJ friend of mine.
:-)
wen...@cix.compulink.co.uk
Art...@artisan-harmony.com (Jacey Bedford) wrote:
> >If you're looking for whacked-out Christmas songs, may I suggest "Oy to
> >the World!" by the Klezmonauts, which recasts the traditional carols in
> >total Jewish mode? It's *very* funny *and* brilliant music at the same
> >time.
> >
> >wg
>
> Where from?
> Web site?
> Sounds like something that would solve a belated Christmas present
> problem for a wacky Jewish American DJ friend of mine.
> :-)
Order it from CDNow or Amazon.com, I think. Duty on CDs is nil (not
expensive enough). Other than that...dunno. Amazon.co.uk *might* have
it, but all the copies I've bought as gifts I've gotten in the US.
CDNow ships really fast, FWIW.
wg
mike walton
"paul draper" <pdr...@gaum.co.uk> wrote in message
news:JVlT7.19992$0A4.1...@news11-gui.server.ntli.net...
>
from
> Stannington. It has 12 different settings of "While Shepherds.." and the
> "standard" one isn't in it.
>
After listening to a CD of carols recorded at Dungworth (South Yorkshire)
with 3 settings of While Shepherds Watched in the first half, and practising
singing it to the tune Cranbrook (aka Ilkley Moor) and what I know as the
"Methodist tune" (also sung in the pubs round Sheffield I believe), neither
me nor my wife could remember the "normal" tune.
--
Mike and Enid Walton
Worcester (UK)
Please reply to : mikewal(notthisbit)@mail.com
Home Page : Folk Music near Worcester (UK)
http://www.worcesterfolk.org.uk
Home Page : Buses around Worcester (UK)
http://www.worcesterbus.co.uk
Molly
x.com>, mike walton (mike walton <mikew...@fish.co.uk>) wrote
>After listening to a CD of carols recorded at Dungworth (South Yorkshire)
>with 3 settings of While Shepherds Watched in the first half, and practising
>singing it to the tune Cranbrook (aka Ilkley Moor) and what I know as the
>"Methodist tune" (also sung in the pubs round Sheffield I believe), neither
>me nor my wife could remember the "normal" tune.
The (to my mind over-perky) "usual" English tune to "O Little Town of
Bethlehem" has the same upsetting effect on me of failing to remember
the (lovely sleepy) "original" tune I learned at school in Edinburgh
until at least an hour later. And, early today, the King's College
carols on TV used a totally new (to me) tune to "Tomorrow is my Dancing
Day", which upset me no end.
I guess I'm just an old traditionalist. :-(
--
Molly Mockford
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Jim Lawton
<nos...@mockfords.clara.co.uk> wrote:
snip
>. And, early today, the King's College
>carols on TV used a totally new (to me) tune to "Tomorrow is my Dancing
>Day", which upset me no end.
Watched it on TV. The running order bore no relation to that in the
R.T. This year they seem to have reverted to too many bizarre
arrangements and exotic pieces with choral squeaking and hooting, and
I cannot tell a lie, we *turned it off!!!*
JIm
Marjorie Clarke
"Molly" <nos...@mockfords.clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:WuCXMnBr...@clara.net...
>
> The (to my mind over-perky) "usual" English tune to "O Little Town of
> Bethlehem" has the same upsetting effect on me of failing to remember
> the (lovely sleepy) "original" tune I learned at school in Edinburgh
> until at least an hour later.
Oh, I'm glad you said that, I feel the same! My schooldays were in Scotland
and Ireland, so I grew up knowing the same tune as you, and only came across
the English tune much later in life. I've never liked the English tune as
much, and now you say it, I agree it's because it doesn't suit the mood of
the song so well.
> I guess I'm just an old traditionalist. :-(
Well, hardly that, because the tune favoured in Scotland is by Henry Walford
Davies, while the English one is traditional, which is why I feel bit
guilty about not liking it so much. But to make up for that, I've played it
as a morris tune for Lads a Bunchum, which it fits quite well.
Jim Lawton
<marj...@theclarkes99nospam.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
snip
>Well, hardly that, because the tune favoured in Scotland is by Henry Walford
>Davies, while the English one is traditional, which is why I feel bit
>guilty about not liking it so much. But to make up for that, I've played it
>as a morris tune for Lads a Bunchum, which it fits quite well.
>
not to mention the fact, that while fiddling around with my new
Westlin' Winds to LTOB tune, I began to get that "singer's
interference syndrome" .. you know, where you suddenly find you're in
another tune. Which was "The British Grenadier" ... some talk of
Alexander etc ...
very similar to LTOB ...
:-)
J
Marjorie Clarke
"Jim Lawton" <jla...@tabbytail.freeserve.co.ukN*O*SPAM> wrote in message
news:3c2b1fc4...@news.ntlworld.com...
Ooh yes, spookily similar! Especially at that crucial first couple of bars
of the B music. In fact, I am now getting the tunes totally muddled when I
think about it, when I never did before.
I wish you'd never said that, it's all your fault - stop it....I've got my
fingers in my ears.... Lah lah lah lah ....I'M NOT LISTENING!!!
Feel free to design a fingers-in-the-ears smiley.
Roger Simpson
Roger Simpson
J. P. Gilliver (John)
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>been singing it ever since, to myself of course.
sing a happy song to a tune I eventually realised was Auld Lang Syne;
this is the only rendering I've found -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8nzhlYGlmg&t=17s ; if anyone finds a
more professional one, please share.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
The thing about smut is it harms no one and it's rarely cruel. Besides, it's a
gleeful rejection of the dreary and the "correct".
- Alison Graham, RT 2014/10/25-31
J. P. Gilliver (John)
<G6...@255soft.uk> wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):
>>`I remember learning that in school in Scotland in the 50s and I've
>>been singing it ever since, to myself of course.
>
>Not exactly a Christmas carol, but my Grandma's over 8- club used to
stopped playing for them.)
>sing a happy song to a tune I eventually realised was Auld Lang Syne;
>this is the only rendering I've found -
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T8nzhlYGlmg&t=17s ; if anyone finds a
>more professional one, please share.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf