dulcimers vs. Scots music
Jack Campin
d...@kerrera.dcs.gla.ac.uk (The Nit Nurse) writes:
> dyna...@interport.net wrote:
>> Are dulcimers an instrument that Scots would play or would have played in
>> old times?
> No. I understood that the dulcimer is an American instrument - Appalachian
> or hammered dulcimers - probably derived from eastern European, Balkan,
> possibly Turkish (Jack?) stringed instruments brought over by emigres.
The Appalachian dulcimer is a variant of the Central European zither; as
far as I know it has never been played as a folk instrument in Scotland
except as an import from America in the early 70s, and I have never seen
anybody playing one outside the US.
The hammered dulcimer is a Middle Eastern instrument which spread as far as
Hungary and North India before the Americans picked it up. There is a
society in Glasgow devoted to it, the rationale for which seems to be that
nobody else wants to play with them so they better stick together - the
things sound FUCKING HORRIBLE in Scottish dance music, with this vast cloud
of dissonance, like something out of the Polish avant-garde, crawling all
over the music and making the harmony totally inaudible. (They play in the
People's Palace glasshouse once a month, where the acoustic makes them sound
like the inside of an industrial boiler under construction with five rivet
guns going at once). The Turkish variant Dave is talking about is the kanun,
played with the fingers, making it a lot softer and easier to blend with
other instruments, like the flute and lute; it's used for very quiet and
meditative chamber music.
A related thing I'm curious about: the strohfidel, a xylophone laid out
rather like a hammered dulcimer, with the bars connected in a lattice by
strings and balanced on bundles of straw at the nodes. I've got one,
bought in Prague a few years ago; potentially much better for Scottish
dance music than the hammered dulcimer since it has almost no sustain.
I'm sure I've seen a reference to these being used in Scots music in the
18th or early 19th century. Anybody know more? Does it have a Scots name?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Jack Campin ja...@purr.demon.co.uk
T/L, 2 Haddington Place, Edinburgh EH7 4AE, Scotland (+44) 131 556 5272
--------------------- Save Scunthorpe from Censorship ---------------------
Pete McClelland
While it is true that the Appalachian Dulcimer is an American
instrument, the closest European ancestors are the French Epinette des
Vosges, and the Dutch/Flemish Hummel. Both of which are basically the
same as the dulcimer but without the hourglass shape, and with extra
drone strings. The modern Zither would be a parrallel development I
should think from much earlier forms of the instrument, rather than a
direct ancestor of the Dulcimer..
There are quite a lot of players and makers of the instrument in
Britain, and Appalachian Dulcimers still sell well in our shops,
although as you say the original interest was first noticed over here in
the 70s.
The Hammered Dulcimer on the other hand has no claim as far as I know to
being American. The version the Americans use is exactly the same as
ones which were popular in this country in the last century, and which
must have been taken there by Scottish, Irish and English emigrants.
It has a definite Scottish link, with Glasgow being reported to have
many players. I have heard from several sources of Shipyard workers
making their own instruments out of the heavy planks of wood available
to them in the yards. Other areas with a good Hammered Dulcimer
tradition are East Anglia and Northern Ireland.
The Historical bit from Jack Campin sounds correct about this
instrument, but there is a long standing association of this instrument
with Scotland too.
In article <10...@purr.demon.co.uk>, Jack Campin <ja...@purr.demon.co.uk>
writes
>
>d...@kerrera.dcs.gla.ac.uk (The Nit Nurse) writes:
>> dyna...@interport.net wrote:
>>> Are dulcimers an instrument that Scots would play or would have played in
>>> old times?
>> No. I understood that the dulcimer is an American instrument - Appalachian
>> or hammered dulcimers - probably derived from eastern European, Balkan,
>> possibly Turkish (Jack?) stringed instruments brought over by emigres.
>
>The Appalachian dulcimer is a variant of the Central European zither; as
>far as I know it has never been played as a folk instrument in Scotland
>except as an import from America in the early 70s, and I have never seen
>anybody playing one outside the US.
>
>The hammered dulcimer is a Middle Eastern instrument which spread as far as
>Hungary and North India before the Americans picked it up. There is a
>society in Glasgow devoted to it, the rationale for which seems to be that
>nobody else wants to play with them so they better stick together
--
Pete McClelland (At Hobgoblin Music)
Dr John Barrow
Jack Campin (ja...@purr.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: d...@kerrera.dcs.gla.ac.uk (The Nit Nurse) writes:
: > dyna...@interport.net wrote:
: >> Are dulcimers an instrument that Scots would play or would have played in
: >> old times?
: > No. I understood that the dulcimer is an American instrument - Appalachian
: > or hammered dulcimers - probably derived from eastern European, Balkan,
: > possibly Turkish (Jack?) stringed instruments brought over by emigres.
I forget his name now, but there was an old hammer dulcimer player recorded
by, I think, Topic back in the 1970s, who was originally from Coatbridge but
by then living in the English west country somewhere. He came to the Kinross
Festival one year and fairly took it by storm with the quality of his
playing. He had made a living of sorts with his playing during the years
between the wars (IIRC :-)).
: The Appalachian dulcimer is a variant of the Central European zither; as
: far as I know it has never been played as a folk instrument in Scotland
: except as an import from America in the early 70s, and I have never seen
: anybody playing one outside the US.
I had wondered sometimes if the epinette du Voges was not more likely as a
candidate to be a forerunner of the Appalachian dulcimer. Very similar in
design.
jb
:-)
Jack Campin
Pete McClelland <Pe...@mcmail.demon.co.uk> writes:
[ about hammered dulcimers ]
> It has a definite Scottish link, with Glasgow being reported to have
> many players. I have heard from several sources of Shipyard workers
> making their own instruments out of the heavy planks of wood available
> to them in the yards.
And the commonest industrial disability among shipyard workers is...?
I rest my case.
(Interesting about Glasgow: I hadn't realized the instrument went back
that far. The hammered dulcimer society there was a friendly bunch of
people, and would be delighted to help anybody interested - maybe someone
has their address?).
Bill Swan
Pete McClelland <Pe...@hobgoblin.co.uk> writes:
> While it is true that the Appalachian Dulcimer is an American
> instrument, the closest European ancestors are the French Epinette des
> Vosges, and the Dutch/Flemish Hummel. Both of which are basically the
> same as the dulcimer but without the hourglass shape, and with extra
> drone strings. The modern Zither would be a parrallel development I
> should think from much earlier forms of the instrument, rather than a
> direct ancestor of the Dulcimer..
> There are quite a lot of players and makers of the instrument in
> Britain, and Appalachian Dulcimers still sell well in our shops,
> although as you say the original interest was first noticed over here in
> the 70s.
One theory says that the mountain dulcimer has its origins with
the German, Dutch, Norwegian and Swedish immigrants to America who
recreated the instrument from their memory (of the scheitholt,
hummel, langeleik and humle, respectively), under rather primitive
conditions with crude tools. The scheitholt bears the oldest
description, by Praetorius in 1618, and is apparently the progenitor
of the others.
> The Hammered Dulcimer on the other hand has no claim as far as I know to
> being American. The version the Americans use is exactly the same as
> ones which were popular in this country in the last century, and which
> must have been taken there by Scottish, Irish and English emigrants.
> It has a definite Scottish link, with Glasgow being reported to have
> many players. I have heard from several sources of Shipyard workers
> making their own instruments out of the heavy planks of wood available
> to them in the yards. Other areas with a good Hammered Dulcimer
> tradition are East Anglia and Northern Ireland.
> The Historical bit from Jack Campin sounds correct about this
> instrument, but there is a long standing association of this instrument
> with Scotland too.
>
>>>> Are dulcimers an instrument that Scots would play or would have played in
>>>> old times?
>>> No. I understood that the dulcimer is an American instrument - Appalachian
>>> or hammered dulcimers - probably derived from eastern European, Balkan,
>>> possibly Turkish (Jack?) stringed instruments brought over by emigres.
>>
>>The Appalachian dulcimer is a variant of the Central European zither; as
>>far as I know it has never been played as a folk instrument in Scotland
>>except as an import from America in the early 70s, and I have never seen
>>anybody playing one outside the US.
>>
DA Eger
Jack Campin (ja...@purr.demon.co.uk) wrote:
:
: d...@kerrera.dcs.gla.ac.uk (The Nit Nurse) writes:
: > dyna...@interport.net wrote:
: >> old times?
: > No. I understood that the dulcimer is an American instrument - Appalachian
: > or hammered dulcimers - probably derived from eastern European, Balkan,
: > possibly Turkish (Jack?) stringed instruments brought over by emigres.
:
: The Appalachian dulcimer is a variant of the Central European zither; as
: far as I know it has never been played as a folk instrument in Scotland
: except as an import from America in the early 70s, and I have never seen
: anybody playing one outside the US.
Ever heard of Phill Ranson? Appalachian dulcimer player from
Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Probably a one-off.
: The hammered dulcimer is a Middle Eastern instrument.....
:..... the
: things sound FUCKING HORRIBLE in Scottish dance music,
Have you heard of Cythara - a duo of Celtic harp and hammer dulcimer, form
Scotland ...and they don't sound fucking horrible. Again, probably a one
off.
: The Turkish variant Dave is talking about is the kanun,
: played with the fingers, making it a lot softer and easier to blend with
: other instruments, like the flute and lute; it's used for very quiet and
: meditative chamber music.
I'm sure there is a Turkish form of hammer dulcimer (struck with hammers,
that is) - they seem to crop up in as far flung places as from India (the
Santoor) to Hungary (the Szimbalom - incidentally, from the same root as
'cembalo', the Italian for harpsichord, which has a keyboard and doesn't
involve hammers - probably the same as 'cymbal' as well, which doesn't even
have strings)
Sally Whytehead
>>>>> In article <4ocles$e...@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk>, u3...@cc.keele.ac.uk (DA Eger) writes:
DA> Ever heard of Phill Ranson? Appalachian dulcimer player from
DA> Newcastle-upon-Tyne. Probably a one-off.
Don't know him. Has anyone got a contact address/tel no?
DA> : The hammered dulcimer is a Middle Eastern instrument.....
DA> :..... the : things sound FUCKING HORRIBLE in Scottish dance
DA> music,
It's not a middle eastern instrument. It's thought that it originated
in the middle ages in Europe, and spread to the middle east. There are
variants in many countries throughout the world, each adapted to the
style of music in that country.
Like any instrument it can sound horrible in the wrong hands ... Also
it is important to have an instrument that stays in tune. Because of
the number of strings and the massive tension, some home made ones or
poor commercial ones are not made strong enough. Hence the racket.
There are two innovative and good quality professional makers in this
country, who make instruments that stay in tune and sound
beautiful. One is Roger Frood, Dove Workshops, near Glastonbury, the
other is Martyn Banks of Oakwood, Leeds.
DA> Have you heard of Cythara - a duo of Celtic harp and hammer
DA> dulcimer, form Scotland ...and they don't sound fucking
DA> horrible. Again, probably a one off.
Cythara have split up now after only 1 recording. They were not
Scottish, they are English. The hammered dulcimer player, Maclaine
Colston is an excellent player, and has recently joined Eliza Carthy's
band "Kings of Callicut". He also plays with his own Reading based
group "Epona". You can hear both of these groups at Warwick Folk
Festival, by the way.
Also Maclaine is not a one off. There are a lot of very creative
dulcimer players in this country - although Maclaine is in the top
handful over here. However Maclaine is one of a new generation of
players - he has learnt from the US player Jim Couza not from the
British tradition.
The Glasgow players represent a thin surviving thread in a tradition of
dulcimer players in the British Isles going back several generations
at least. There are also surviving threads in East Anglia and
Birmingham. Quite a few players in these traditions (which each have
distinctive characters of their own) were recorded in the
seventies. They include Billy Bennington, Billy Cooper (E. Anglia),
Jimmy Cooper (Scotland), John Rea (N. Ireland), Bill Fell
(Birmingham). This type of archive may not always be
classed as leisure listening - but they are precious nonetheless.
There is a club in the UK for Hammered and Mountain Dulcimer
players/makers. I can forward details to anyone interested. I also
have a contact name for the Glasgow group, and other traditional
players in the UK.
Sally Whytehead
Nonsuch Dulcimer Club
Birmingham, UK.
--
Sally Whytehead
sa...@ftel.co.uk
Paul M. Gifford
In article <960527.080956.1...@cygnus.wa.com> bi...@cygnus.wa.com (Bill Swan) writes:
>Pete McClelland <Pe...@hobgoblin.co.uk> writes:
>> The Hammered Dulcimer on the other hand has no claim as far as I know to
>> being American. The version the Americans use is exactly the same as
>> ones which were popular in this country in the last century, and which
>> must have been taken there by Scottish, Irish and English emigrants.
>> It has a definite Scottish link, with Glasgow being reported to have
>> many players. I have heard from several sources of Shipyard workers
>> making their own instruments out of the heavy planks of wood available
>> to them in the yards. Other areas with a good Hammered Dulcimer
>> tradition are East Anglia and Northern Ireland.
>> The Historical bit from Jack Campin sounds correct about this
>> instrument, but there is a long standing association of this instrument
>> with Scotland too.
The hammered dulcimer most certainly DOES have a claim to being "American."
It can be documented as early as 1718, and there are several traditional
styles. The Scottish and English ones I've seen are recognizably different.
For example, the traditional East Anglian design uses 10 treble and 10 bass
courses, with individual bridges, tuned basically in G. Traditional American
ones have a number of string arrangements.
I agree that the dulcimer was quite popular around Glasgow, as I have heard
several stories (and met two players), and have a dulcimer which was brought
by an immigrant about 1920.
The heaviest use of dulcimers in 19th century America was by people in western
New York, northern Ohio, Michigan, and mainly by people of early New England
descent. This would argue for a 17th-century English introduction, although
documentation is lacking. In northern West Virginia, another traditional
area, the population derives mainly from Scotch-Irish settlers who came in the
18th century, and this relates to the dulcimer's popularity around Belfast.
>>
>>>The hammered dulcimer is a Middle Eastern instrument which spread as far as
>>>Hungary and North India before the Americans picked it up. There is a
>>>society in Glasgow devoted to it, the rationale for which seems to be that
>>>nobody else wants to play with them so they better stick together
Not true. Shivkumar Sharma, a Kashmiri, introduced the Kashmiri santur (which
came from Iraq probably in the 16th century) to North Indian music in the
'60s. Yes, it reached Hungary before America. However, the dulcimer was in
general use in England in the 17th century and it may well have come then. It
was popular in Scotland (Glasgow area) as an accompanying instrument (to the
melodeon or fiddle), which puts to rest this last argument that "nobody else
wants to play with them."
Paul Gifford
Rob
In article <960526182...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> writes:
>From: Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk>
>I had wondered sometimes if the epinette du Voges was not more likely as a
>candidate to be a forerunner of the Appalachian dulcimer. Very similar in
>design.
Not too many settlers in the Appalachian region from the Vosges that I ever
heard about. To establish a dereivational relationship you need to show some
actual connection between the regions, not just a similarity in shape or
design. The dulcimer design is quite simple and similar instruments exist all
over the world - even in ancient China. There is a similar folk instrument in
Norway still in use I believe - this has been related to the Appalacian
dulcimer by some scholars. I have also seen a similar instrument in use in
Corsica.
In addition to design, another important point to consider is the
manner in which the instruments are played, and how they closely they are
related to the style of music with which they are generally associated.
Pete McClelland
Paul M Gifford wrote
>
>The hammered dulcimer most certainly DOES have a claim to being "American."
>It can be documented as early as 1718, and there are several traditional
>styles. The Scottish and English ones I've seen are recognizably different.
>For example, the traditional East Anglian design uses 10 treble and 10 bass
>courses, with individual bridges, tuned basically in G. Traditional American
>ones have a number of string arrangements.
Paul
You seem to agree with me on everything except the date of introduction
to the States from Britain & Ireland. Thanks for the extra detail.
I don't think The Americans or for that matter the British before that
can claim the instrument as their own however. It is just to similar to
other forms to merit such a claim in my book.
>
Someone else wrote this bit originally:
>>>>The hammered dulcimer is a Middle Eastern instrument which spread as far as
>>>>Hungary and North India before the Americans picked it up. There is a
>>>>society in Glasgow devoted to it, the rationale for which seems to be that
>>>>nobody else wants to play with them so they better stick together
>
>Not true. Shivkumar Sharma, a Kashmiri, introduced the Kashmiri santur (which
>came from Iraq probably in the 16th century) to North Indian music in the
>'60s.
I think you are getting a bit picky here! Kashmir is still a part of
India, even if unwillingly. The previous poster was surely correct when
he said it was introduced to India from the middle East? I think we all
agree on this too really. Tell me if you think otherwise. I am genuinely
interested.
--
Pete McClelland
Alyn Iorwerth
In <960526182...@folkmus.demon.co.uk>, Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> writes:
>Jack Campin (ja...@purr.demon.co.uk) wrote:
>
>I forget his name now, but there was an old hammer dulcimer player recorded
>by, I think, Topic back in the 1970s, who was originally from Coatbridge but
>by then living in the English west country somewhere. He came to the Kinross
>Festival one year and fairly took it by storm with the quality of his
>playing. He had made a living of sorts with his playing during the years
>between the wars (IIRC :-)).
>
Alyn Iorwerth
In <4ocles$e...@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk>, u3...@cc.keele.ac.uk (DA Eger) writes:
>
>Have you heard of Cythara - a duo of Celtic harp and hammer dulcimer, form
>Scotland ...and they don't sound fucking horrible. Again, probably a one
>off.
>
Not from Scotland, and sadly, no longer performing as a duo.
Paul M. Gifford
>Paul M Gifford wrote
>>
>>The hammered dulcimer most certainly DOES have a claim to being "American."
>>It can be documented as early as 1718, and there are several traditional
>>styles. The Scottish and English ones I've seen are recognizably different.
>>For example, the traditional East Anglian design uses 10 treble and 10 bass
>>courses, with individual bridges, tuned basically in G. Traditional American
>>ones have a number of string arrangements.
>Paul
>You seem to agree with me on everything except the date of introduction
>to the States from Britain & Ireland. Thanks for the extra detail.
>I don't think The Americans or for that matter the British before that
>can claim the instrument as their own however. It is just to similar to
>other forms to merit such a claim in my book.
Except that the dulcimer (and its relatives) can be identified, to the
knowledgeable person, to some degree by sound alone, but especially by details
of design, string layout, decoration, etc., to particular countries and
sometimes to particular regions. I wouldn't say, for example, that the
Ukrainian cymbaly (or dulcimer, as it's frequently called in Western Canada)
is the same as the Anglo-American dulcimer (although more in the past than
the present) in Ontario. Other variables, such as hammers and tuning vary a
great deal.
I feel that santurs (in Iran, Iraq, Kashmir) have a separate origin from other
dulcimers. European dulcimers might be divided into the following groups: 1.
dulcimer, in Britain, and obsolete instruments in France; 2. Hackbrett types
in German-speaking areas; 3. cymbal/cimbalom originally in an area stretching
from Germany to Lithuania to Romania; 4. Chinese yangqin and its offshoots.
For U.S. traditional dulcimers, there are four or five traditional types.
>Someone else wrote this bit originally:
>>>>>The hammered dulcimer is a Middle Eastern instrument which spread as far as
>>>>>Hungary and North India before the Americans picked it up. There is a
>>>>>society in Glasgow devoted to it, the rationale for which seems to be that
>>>>>nobody else wants to play with them so they better stick together
>>
>>Not true. Shivkumar Sharma, a Kashmiri, introduced the Kashmiri santur (which
>>came from Iraq probably in the 16th century) to North Indian music in the
>>'60s.
>I think you are getting a bit picky here! Kashmir is still a part of
>India, even if unwillingly. The previous poster was surely correct when
>he said it was introduced to India from the middle East? I think we all
>agree on this too really. Tell me if you think otherwise. I am genuinely
>interested.
No problems here about the origins of the Kashmiri/Indian santur, unless one
wants to defend the absurd claim that it was mentioned in the Vedic period.
I think I meant to answer "not true" to the juvenile charge that "nobody else
wants to play with them." If I didn't mention them, I should mention that I
know of or knew several emigrant Scots who played the dulcimer in the U.S. or
Canada--- in Detroit, Bill MacArthur accompanied a melodeon player at all the
Bobbie Burns parties; a duo in Boston, whose names I don't recall, recorded
melodeon/dulcimer duets on Decca in 1934; Peter Henderson and his wife Johan,
from Inverness, in Chicago; and still others. I have heard of the Murphy
brothers, melodeon/dulcimer combo in Cambuslang in the '20s; Peter Henderson's
father and a fiddler in Inverness in the 1910s, and finally Bob Smith's band
in Glasgow. There were allegedly dulcimer contests in Glasgow in the '10s,
according to Peter Henderson. Yet what is "authentic" about the dulcimer in
Scotland is precisely that it hasn't really been revived there in the sense
that, say, the "Celtic" harp has. But the dulcimer tradition must go back
several hundred years in Scotland.
Paul Gifford
Dr John Barrow
Rob (rob...@azstarnet.com) wrote:
: In article <960526182...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> writes:
: >From: Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk>
ok. I was just wondering. I ain't no scholar of epinettes etc.. You a
scholar?
jb
:-)
Rob
In article <960530014...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> writes:
>From: Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk>
>Date: Thu, 30 May 96 01:43:28 GMT
>Rob (rob...@azstarnet.com) wrote:
>: In article <960526182...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> Dr John Barrow
><j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> writes:
>: >From: Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk>
>: >I had wondered sometimes if the epinette du Voges was not more likely as a
>: >candidate to be a forerunner of the Appalachian dulcimer. Very similar in
>: >design.
>: Not too many settlers in the Appalachian region from the Vosges that I ever
>: heard about. To establish a dereivational relationship you need to show some
>: actual connection between the regions, not just a similarity in shape or
>: design.
[...blah blah blah...]
>ok. I was just wondering. I ain't no scholar of epinettes etc.. You a
>scholar?
We are all scholars, n'est-ce pas ?
I failed to notice that you had said you were just wondering :-)
I don't know much about Epinettes, I'm just a dulcimer player from way back
when. My dulcimer doesn't happen to have an hour-glass shape, by the way.
It is shaped rather plainly () like a pair of parentheses.
About hammered dulicmers in the USA - I think most of the popularity of this
instrument today can actually be traced to as recent a period as the
folk revival of the 1960's and to the work of one individual proponent of the
instrument. The instrument of course existed much earlier here, but had fallen
completely out of use until revived at that time.
Paul M. Gifford
>>: >From: Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk>
>>: >I had wondered sometimes if the epinette du Voges was not more likely as a
>>: >candidate to be a forerunner of the Appalachian dulcimer. Very similar in
>>: >design.
>>: Not too many settlers in the Appalachian region from the Vosges that I ever
>>: heard about. To establish a dereivational relationship you need to show some
>>: actual connection between the regions, not just a similarity in shape or
>>: design.
The Vosges are in Alsace, where many German-speaking emigrants came from,
before sailing to Philadelphia in the 18th century. From Pennsylvania, many
moved down the Shenandoah Valley, and established German-speaking communities
in Virginia and North Carolina.
>About hammered dulicmers in the USA - I think most of the popularity of this
>instrument today can actually be traced to as recent a period as the
>folk revival of the 1960's and to the work of one individual proponent of the
>instrument. The instrument of course existed much earlier here, but had fallen
>completely out of use until revived at that time.
Actually there are several proponents----definitely not one person, though it
may seem like that in certain areas. It hadn't fallen completely out of use.
I started playing in 1968; my uncle played it a bit in the '20s and '30s; a
club started in Michigan in 1963, of old-timers, etc. It's revival had very
little to do with the folk revival of the '60s, unlike the Appalachian
dulcimer. True, though, in the '60s, it was virtually forgotten, except by
individuals whose family members had played, etc.
Paul Gifford
Dr John Barrow
Alyn Iorwerth (iorw...@hursley.ibm.com) wrote:
: In <960526182...@folkmus.demon.co.uk>, Dr John Barrow <j...@folkmus.demon.co.uk> writes:
: >Jack Campin (ja...@purr.demon.co.uk) wrote:
: >
: >I forget his name now, but there was an old hammer dulcimer player recorded
: >by, I think, Topic back in the 1970s, who was originally from Coatbridge but
: >by then living in the English west country somewhere. He came to the Kinross
: >Festival one year and fairly took it by storm with the quality of his
: >playing. He had made a living of sorts with his playing during the years
: >between the wars (IIRC :-)).
: >
: This is probably Jimmy Cooper, who lived at Ringwood in Hampshire.
... yep, that's the boy!
jb
:-)
DA Eger
Bill Swan (bi...@cygnus.wa.com) wrote:
:
: One theory says that the mountain dulcimer has its origins with
: the German, Dutch, Norwegian and Swedish immigrants to America who
: recreated the instrument from their memory (of the scheitholt,
: hummel, langeleik and humle, respectively), under rather primitive
: conditions with crude tools. The scheitholt bears the oldest
: description, by Praetorius in 1618, and is apparently the progenitor
: of the others.
Hungary, as well as the Szimbalom (an overgrown hammer-dulcimer - almost a
piano without the machinery) has a type of zither, know simply as the
Citera (meaning 'zither') which bears a resemblance to these instruments (at
least to the langeleik and the mountain dulcimer - I haven't come across the
others) in that it has a set of drone strings (3, I think) and a melody
string (which I think may be doubled, like the strings on a mandolin).
It seems probable that instruments of this type exist, or have existed in
most parts of Europe and those areas where large numbers of Europeans have
settled. But, while in many areas they have retained their rudimentary form
as a melody + drone instrument, in a few they have advanced much further.
It is not surprising that the varieties found in Austria and Germany have
developed in the way that they have, since thes countries were, for much of
the 17th and 18th centuries at the centre of development in tonal music.
An instrument which I haven't yet seen mentioned in this thread is the
Autoharp (or Chromaharp - both of which are trade names, I think), which
seems likely to be a direct descendant of the Viennese Zither or some
similar instrument (i.e. an diatonic instrument, with some chromatic
capabilities, having a set of unfretted bass and chord strings, and a set of
fretted melody strings. For those not in the know, an autoharp is a
zither-type instrument with a partially or fully chromatic set of strings,
and a row of buttons, which operate selective dampers, leaving open only
those strings required to produce a paticular chord.
Tom Nelligan
In <4p1qga$b...@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk> u3...@cc.keele.ac.uk (DA Eger)
writes:
>An instrument which I haven't yet seen mentioned in this thread is the
>Autoharp (or Chromaharp - both of which are trade names, I think),
>which seems likely to be a direct descendant of the Viennese Zither or
>some similar instrument (i.e. an diatonic instrument, with some
>chromatic capabilities, having a set of unfretted bass and chord
>strings, and a set of fretted melody strings. For those not in the
>know, an autoharp is a zither-type instrument with a partially or
>fully chromatic set of strings, and a row of buttons, which operate
>selective dampers, leaving open only those strings required to produce
>a paticular chord.
>
I believe that the Autoharp (yes, it is or at least was a trade name)
was invented around 1875 by a German immigrant to the USA, a fellow
named Charles Zimmerman who lived in Philadelphia. Drawing on his
knowledge of German zithers, he attempted to create an easy-to-play
instrument as a complement to another project he was involved in,
simplifying musical notation to make it simple for people to read sheet
music. In the original idea, people would use numbered chord charts to
determine which autoharp buttons to hit, and when. The Chromaharp name
came about when another manufacturer started building the things and
hoped to avoid paying license fees to Zimmerman or his heirs.
The Sears Roebuck Company and other mail-order vendors sold huge
numbers of autoharps for just a few dollars, largely in the American
south and midwest, and thus another bit was added to tradition!
--Tom Nelligan
Bob Cameron
In article <4p2cv3$c...@sjx-ixn5.ix.netcom.com>, nell...@ix.netcom.com(Tom
Nelligan) wrote:
> In <4p1qga$b...@gerry.cc.keele.ac.uk> u3...@cc.keele.ac.uk (DA Eger)
> writes:
>
> >An instrument which I haven't yet seen mentioned in this thread is the
> >Autoharp (or Chromaharp - both of which are trade names, I think),
> >which seems likely to be a direct descendant of the Viennese Zither or
> >some similar instrument (snip, describes autoharp)
> >
>
> I believe that the Autoharp (yes, it is or at least was a trade name)
> was invented around 1875 by a German immigrant to the USA, a fellow
> named Charles Zimmerman who lived in Philadelphia.
(snip, history of same)
> The Sears Roebuck Company and other mail-order vendors sold huge
> numbers of autoharps for just a few dollars, largely in the American
> south and midwest, and thus another bit was added to tradition!
The autoharp used to be used around here by Elementary School Music
Teachers- it was alot easier to strum choerds than learning to play guitar
or piano. There was an excellent musician and former gunsmith in New
Hampshire who made his own Autoharp and played excellent ragtime and
old-timey fiddle tunes on it, picking out the notes as well as strumming
chords. His name was Peter Colby. He and his lady, April died tragically
in a fire. They are sorely missed.
Michael Paterson
bcam...@it.berklee.edu (Bob Cameron) wrote:
>old-timey
You're from Appalachia, right?
Mi\cheil Rob Mac Pha\druig
Dru\idh:duine-uasal
Ian White
Tom Nelligan wrote:
>
>
>I believe that the Autoharp (yes, it is or at least was a trade name)
>was invented around 1875 by a German immigrant to the USA, a fellow
>knowledge of German zithers, he attempted to create an easy-to-play
>instrument as a complement to another project he was involved in,
>simplifying musical notation to make it simple for people to read sheet
>music. In the original idea, people would use numbered chord charts to
>determine which autoharp buttons to hit, and when. The Chromaharp name
>came about when another manufacturer started building the things and
>hoped to avoid paying license fees to Zimmerman or his heirs.
>
has a very late Autoharp - 1940s, not long before the factory closed -
which has Zimmerman's number notation on the label beneath the strings.
Zimmerman's system of notation died the death, but the instrument lives
on.
>The Sears Roebuck Company and other mail-order vendors sold huge
>numbers of autoharps for just a few dollars, largely in the American
>south and midwest, and thus another bit was added to tradition!
The autoharp was supposed to be very easy to play for accompanying hymns
etc, played zither-fashion on the table. But like any harp, it's a pig
to keep in tune without either a very good ear or a modern electronic
tuner. To make things worse, many of the Sears-type harps were cheap
plywood, which warped under the tension of the strings and the extreme
climate, so they fell into disuse.
What brought the autoharp into the American folk tradition was when
Mother Maybelle Carter picked it up off the table, cradled it upright in
her lap, and started strumming and picking the 'sharp end', up above the
chord bars. This produced a completely different repertoire and tone,
and the rest is history.
The autoharp doesn't pretend to be a concert harp or clarsach, but it's
also much easier for beginners and makes a very pleasant accompaniment
for singing - exactly as Mr Z. intended.
There don't seem to be many autoharps around the British folk scene, and
very few people even recognise them. My wife wishes she got 10p for
every time she's had to explain: "It's called an autoharp - an auto-
harp. It works like this...".
Ian White
Abingdon, England
The Shrew
Shrewsbury Renaissance Faire
14 - 15 September 1996
Philomath Oregon
July 31 application deadline for Performing Artists, Vendors, Improv
Theatre, Reenactors, and Crafters. Come display your talents in
an Elizabethan Renaissance setting. Children's games also very welcome.
Riders and horses can apply to play in the Knight's Fantasy Tournament.
Call the Shrew at
541 929 4897
or write
Shrewsbury Renaissance Faire
Post Box 604
Philomath OR 97370
sh...@pioneer.net
http://www.peak.org/~kiyose/Shrewsbury.html
Michael Paterson
u3...@cc.keele.ac.uk (DA Eger) wrote:
>I'm sure there is a Turkish form of hammer dulcimer (struck with hammers,
>that is) - they seem to crop up in as far flung places as from India (the
>Santoor) to Hungary (the Szimbalom - incidentally, from the same root as
>'cembalo', the Italian for harpsichord, which has a keyboard and doesn't
>involve hammers - probably the same as 'cymbal' as well, which doesn't even
>have strings)
A sort of refining-down-to-basics process? My wife used to enjoy
pointing out to me that the English word 'clang' and the Gaelic word
'clag' (a bell) told one all about Celtic ironworking skills...
jack....@btinternet.com
KGB
wrote:
>I know this is a very old post but it is the most ill informed load of bile I've ever read. Thankfully, other contributors have corrected some of the misinformation.
KGB
J. P. Gilliver (John)
than about three days, unless I've specifically marked them to be kept.
(Since he didn't actually quote anything other than the subject from the
post he objects to, I would have to go hunting through Google Groups or
similar, which I have no intention of doing.)
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf
"Dook, that was great but I think the line needs
awe. Can you do it again, giving it just a little awe?"
"Sure, George," said Wayne and looking up at the cross said:
"Aw, truly this man is the son of God."
(recounted in Radio Times, 30 March-5 April 2013.)