Nylon-strung mandolin
Jonathan Quick
Anyone suggest suitable string gauges?
Tia,
JJ.
--
Email: jjq...@foxtrot.co.uk
Homepage: www.foxtrot.co.uk
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Nick Wagg
>
> Does anyone have any experience of putting nylon strings on a mandolin?
> Anyone suggest suitable string gauges?
No, but I wouldn't have thought that you would get much volume.
--
Nick Wagg <>< (mailto:ni...@lsl.co.uk) Laser-Scan Ltd,
Technical Project Manager Science Park, Milton Rd,
Tel: +44(0)1223 420414 (ext 213) Cambridge, CB4 0FY, UK.
Fax: +44(0)1223 420044 http://www.laser-scan.com/
Opinions expressed are attributable to me, not my employer.
Martin Banks
> Jonathan Quick wrote:
> >
> > Does anyone have any experience of putting nylon
> > strings on a mandolin?
> > Anyone suggest suitable string gauges?
>
> No, but I wouldn't have thought that you would get much
> volume.
No, and mandolins don't have the right bridge design to cope with nylon strings, which
are neither ball- or loop-ended. They have to be tied off over the bridge, and I don't
think it would be possible on a mandolin, which are normally designed for
loop-ended strings.
Unless you want something you can play in bed without waking your partner I'm not
sure you'll achieve much.
Jonathan Quick
news:memo.2000030...@banksie.compulink.co.uk...
> >
> > No, but I wouldn't have thought that you would get much
> > volume.
Hmmm.... a charango seems to kick out a reasonable volume, but then I guess
it does have a deeper body and larger soundhole. A balalaika has a very
small sound hole, but I suppose that too has at least twice the body depth &
volume... I may well have to try this out just to see what happens. It was
tone rather than volume I was trying to achieve btw, one can always amplify
if necessary after all.
> No, and mandolins don't have the right bridge design to cope with nylon
strings, which
> are neither ball- or loop-ended. They have to be tied off over the bridge,
and I don't > think it would be possible on a mandolin, which are normally
designed for
> loop-ended strings.
I'd have thought it would be possible to knot a loop end into nylon strings,
but I take the point, that's something I hadn't considered.
> Unless you want something you can play in bed without waking your partner
I'm not > sure you'll achieve much.
Perceptive comment! Personally I really can't see what's wrong with my
practising violin if I wake up in the small hours, but there you go :-)
mark.bluemel
>Martin Banks <ban...@cix.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:memo.2000030...@banksie.compulink.co.uk...
>> >
>> > No, but I wouldn't have thought that you would get much
>> > volume.
>
>Hmmm.... a charango seems to kick out a reasonable volume, but then I guess
>it does have a deeper body and larger soundhole. A balalaika has a very
>small sound hole, but I suppose that too has at least twice the body depth
&
>volume... I may well have to try this out just to see what happens. It was
>tone rather than volume I was trying to achieve btw, one can always amplify
>if necessary after all.
All the balalaikas I've seen, and the one I tried playing, had steel
strings.
--
Mark Bluemel - Unix and Oracle Consultant
Musician and Caller - web.ukonline.co.uk/mark.bluemel
Boats: Wayfarer 3205, Topper 28267, Rob Roy 2 canoe
Telephone 023 8077 1967
Martin Banks
Quick) wrote:
> Hmmm.... a charango seems to kick out a reasonable
> volume, but then I guess
> it does have a deeper body and larger soundhole. A
> balalaika has a very
> small sound hole, but I suppose that too has at least
> twice the body depth &
> volume... I may well have to try this out just to see
> what happens.
A fair point, and I have to admit it is only guesswork on my part. It might
be OK with a round-backed mandolin, but the flat-backs are, I would
guess, designed and built to cope with the stresses of steel strings, and
might well deaden out nylon strings to the point of inaudibility.
> It was
> tone rather than volume I was trying to achieve btw, one
> can always amplify
> if necessary after all.
>
Yep, but if the natural volume of the instrument is low, then the gain on a
mic (and it would need to be a mic) would be so high as to feedback
within half a mile of the speakers......I think........ Might work with a
pre-amp system, I suppose.
Jonathan Quick
news:8a0emf$n8f$1...@apple.news.easynet.net...
>
> All the balalaikas I've seen, and the one I tried playing, had steel
> strings.
Actually those aren't "proper" balalaikas, they're mandolin balalaikas and
in fact I have one myself. A traditionally-strung balalaika, believe it or
not, has one steel string and two nylon (or gut) ones.
Mav
wrote:
>Does anyone have any experience of putting nylon strings on a mandolin?
>Anyone suggest suitable string gauges?
>
>Tia,
>
>JJ.
>
uhh......none of my business, but: why?
-Mav
Julian Flood
> nylon strings on a mandolin
Granny Flood's Stridente had nylon strings, or the equivalent, in the 50s
and it was not very stridente at all. Tomastik sterks work well, and are not
too loud with a pleasant soft sound.
BTW, does anyone know of someone in/near East Anglia with a Sobell mando,
I'd love to try one. Will drive to plunk.
--
Julian Flood
Life, the Universe and Climbing Plants at www.argonet.co.uk/users/julesf.
Mind the diddley skiffle folk.
Jason Hill
<mark.b...@ukonline.co.uk> writes
>
>
>All the balalaikas I've seen, and the one I tried playing, had steel
>strings.
>
2nd and 3rd nylon or gut.
>
--
Jason Hill
Jonathan Quick
news:38c3f633...@news.earthlink.net...
>
> >Does anyone have any experience of putting nylon strings on a mandolin?
> >Anyone suggest suitable string gauges?
Two reasons really... firstly I have an old flat-back mandolin that would be
better without the stress of a full-tension steel set of strings, and
secondly I'd like to have a mandolin with a softer and more lute-ey sound as
great though a standard mandolin is, steel strings are a little strident for
some styles of music.
Mav
wrote:
>Mav <dm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>news:38c3f633...@news.earthlink.net...
>>
>> >Does anyone have any experience of putting nylon strings on a mandolin?
>> >Anyone suggest suitable string gauges?
>> uhh......none of my business, but: why?
>
>Two reasons really... firstly I have an old flat-back mandolin that would be
>better without the stress of a full-tension steel set of strings, and
>secondly I'd like to have a mandolin with a softer and more lute-ey sound as
>great though a standard mandolin is, steel strings are a little strident for
>some styles of music.
>
>JJ.
>
Ah. I was wondering if a mellower sound was what you were after.
The only problem I can forsee(and I could be completely wrong) is
tuning nylon up to mandolin tuning. Most nylon strings I've seen are
meant for classical guitar w/ guitar scale- I wonder if you can tune
those strings up at mandolin scale.
If a lute-y sound is what you're after, you might want to go w/ an
octave mando w/ nylon strings. Hell, an octave mando w/ *steel*
strings would sound more like a lute than a mandolin, I would think.
'Course, that requires buying another instrument, which you are
probably trying to avoid.
-Mav
Tim Willets
<dm...@earthlink.net> writes
>Ah. I was wondering if a mellower sound was what you were after.
>The only problem I can forsee(and I could be completely wrong) is
>tuning nylon up to mandolin tuning.
No problem whatsoever - what do you think "synthetic" fiddle strings are
made of (OK - usually perlon rather than nylon, but it's basically the
same stuff)?
And they usually have a ball-type ending.
I don't know if it would work regarding volume or what the tone would be
like, but I would have thought a couple of sets of cheap (say 30 quid a
set or under!) synthetic violin strings would stand mandolin tuning (a
mandolin being a similar scale length to a fiddle, and having the same
range). A fiddle played with a plectrum is fairly audible (and I'm sure
I've seen at least one magazine article from years ago describing how to
turn cheap/clapped out fiddles into mandolins by fretting them and
filing the top of the bridge flat).
As far as string tension goes, according to the literature Pirasto
synthetics have an end-to-end tension of 56lb when tuned to pitch.
--
Tim Willets
Han Speek
dm...@earthlink.net (Mav) writes:
> On Mon, 6 Mar 2000 18:57:03 -0000, "Jonathan Quick" <n...@spam.here>
> wrote:
>
>>Mav <dm...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>>news:38c3f633...@news.earthlink.net...
>>>
>>> >Does anyone have any experience of putting nylon strings on a mandolin?
>>> >Anyone suggest suitable string gauges?
>>> uhh......none of my business, but: why?
>>
>>Two reasons really... firstly I have an old flat-back mandolin that would be
>>better without the stress of a full-tension steel set of strings, and
>>secondly I'd like to have a mandolin with a softer and more lute-ey sound as
>>great though a standard mandolin is, steel strings are a little strident for
>>some styles of music.
>>
>>JJ.
>>
> The only problem I can forsee(and I could be completely wrong) is
> meant for classical guitar w/ guitar scale- I wonder if you can tune
> those strings up at mandolin scale.
> If a lute-y sound is what you're after, you might want to go w/ an
> octave mando w/ nylon strings. Hell, an octave mando w/ *steel*
> strings would sound more like a lute than a mandolin, I would think.
> 'Course, that requires buying another instrument, which you are
> probably trying to avoid.
> -Mav
>
Interesting suggestion, but it will not work - the mandolin probably won't
work either :-( Nylon strings have a thicker diameter and a lower tension
than steel. So you would have to set up the instrument much higher (compare
typical setup of classical guitar vs. setup of a (decent) steel-string) AND
the strings within a pair would have to be placed further apart to avoid
them hitting each other. Which in turn makes fretting the pair very awkward
if not impossible (too far apart and your fretting finger will fall between
them).
Han.
--
H. Speek, B.Sc. H.S...@el.utwente.nl
MESA Research Institute http://www.ice.el.utwente.nl/~han/
Univ. of Twente, P.O. Box 217, 7500 AE, Enschede, The Netherlands
bogus address
>>> Does anyone have any experience of putting nylon strings on a mandolin?
> Two reasons really... firstly I have an old flat-back mandolin that
> would be better without the stress of a full-tension steel set of
> strings, and secondly I'd like to have a mandolin with a softer and
> more lute-ey sound as great though a standard mandolin is, steel
> strings are a little strident for some styles of music.
Have you tried the Early Music Shop in Bradford? Maybe there was
some kind of baroque mandolin that had gut strings, in which case
they'll probably stock some appropriate modern equivalent.
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
Jonathan Quick
news:8a2f03$7ej$1...@dinkel.civ.utwente.nl...
>
> Interesting suggestion, but it will not work - the mandolin probably won't
> work either :-( Nylon strings have a thicker diameter and a lower tension
> than steel. So you would have to set up the instrument much higher
(compare
> typical setup of classical guitar vs. setup of a (decent) steel-string)
AND
> the strings within a pair would have to be placed further apart to avoid
> them hitting each other. Which in turn makes fretting the pair very
awkward
> if not impossible (too far apart and your fretting finger will fall
between
> them).
Ok: I have in front of me a mandolin and a charango. The charango has nylon
strings, and the top course (i.e. pair) is tuned to the same "E" as the top
course of the mandolin, although the strings are slightly further apart. The
strings are obviously thicker, but not *that* much thicker. The scale length
of the charango is slightly longer (by about an inch), but apart from that
they're not really that different... I think this will work! I'll try it out
once I've worked out suitable string gauges (didn't someone write a program
to do this?) and post the results.
Danny Chapman
> they're not really that different... I think this will work! I'll try it out
> once I've worked out suitable string gauges (didn't someone write a program
> to do this?) and post the results.
http://www.transbay.net/~dog/StringTensionApplet.html
http://www.celticmusic.co.nz/html/StringCalc/Multistringcalc.html
http://www.cs.Helsinki.fi/~wikla/mus/Calcs/wwwscalc.html
- Danny
Peter Hughes
bogus address wrote:
>
> Have you tried the Early Music Shop in Bradford? Maybe there was
> some kind of baroque mandolin that had gut strings, in which case
> they'll probably stock some appropriate modern equivalent.
>
There is - I played one (lute backed 'neopolitan' style) at the London Early
music show last year. And very nice it was too.
You colud try Northern Renaissance Instruments, who specialize in strings for
early instruments, though a quick glance at their website doesn't reveal any
specifically for a mandolin.
http://www.nrinstruments.demon.co.uk/
HTH,
Peter.
Julian Templeman
> A fiddle played with a plectrum is fairly audible (and I'm sure
>I've seen at least one magazine article from years ago describing how to
>turn cheap/clapped out fiddles into mandolins by fretting them and
>filing the top of the bridge flat).
Indeed you have. I remember that article... AFAIR it was by Stephen
Delft, a London-based luthier who used to write a column for a UK
music magazine. Too many years ago to remember what it was called! I
bought my first guitar from him during the 70s, and have often
wondered where he's got to.
The article detailed an experiment by Mr.Delft, in which he took cheap
Chinese violins and turned them into cheap archtop mandolins. I seem
to recall that it basically involved replacing the neck in order to
get space for the tuners on a headstock and a flat fingerboard. He
thought the experiment was very successful, and I've always wanted to
try it...
julian
Member of The Society for Acquiring More Instruments
Than You Can Afford Or Have Room To House
Martin Banks
jul...@groucho.demon.co.uk (Julian Templeman) wrote:
> Member of The Society for Acquiring More Instruments
> Than You Can Afford Or Have Room To House
>
Coooo....that's me.......where do I join?
Julian Templeman
>> Member of The Society for Acquiring More Instruments
>> Than You Can Afford Or Have Room To House
>>
>
>Coooo....that's me.......where do I join?
Join here! The special, one-off, lifetime membership fee is one of
your surplus instruments :-)
julian
somewhere over northern ireland
Tim Willets
<jul...@groucho.demon.co.uk> writes
>Indeed you have. I remember that article... AFAIR it was by Stephen
>Delft, a London-based luthier who used to write a column for a UK
>music magazine.
I can't remember who wrote it (we're talking 20-ish years ago) but I'm
pretty sure the article I saw advised people to go to a junk-shop and
buy a "cheap old violin" and to install machines in the tuning peg
holes, retaining the original fiddle neck. I've since wondered how many
decent (and better than decent) 19th Century German fiddles may have met
an awful end as DIY mandolins (on reflection probably not many due to
the complexities involved in fretting the things)
>Member of The Society for Acquiring More Instruments
>Than You Can Afford Or Have Room To House
You too eh?? :)
--
Tim Willets
Julian Templeman
>>Member of The Society for Acquiring More Instruments
>>Than You Can Afford Or Have Room To House
>
>You too eh?? :)
You bet... I've got a new custom guitar arriving this month from Peter
Abnett, and then I go and see a lovely, mint condition Lowden S23 in
Loot. Aaargh! That's two new expensive guitars in six weeks... I'm
getting a lot of wifely flak about *that*!
julian
somewhere over southern england...
nick odell
<jul...@groucho.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> I've got a new custom guitar arriving this month from Peter Abnett
Peter Abnett who must be seventy-ish now? Pleased to hear he is still
making nice instruments. Last heard of (by me) on the Isle of Grain,
many, many years ago. Is he still in the same locality?
Nick
--
real e-mail is (all one word) themusicworkshop at cwcom.net
Julian Templeman
(nick odell) wrote:
>Peter Abnett who must be seventy-ish now? Pleased to hear he is still
>making nice instruments. Last heard of (by me) on the Isle of Grain,
>many, many years ago. Is he still in the same locality?
Not sure about the age, but he is getting on a little :-) Now living
near Rochester, Kent. Doing some instrument building as well as
painting and sculpture, AFAIK.
nick odell
Sounds like the right chap - there can't be too many Peter Abnetts
making guitars in Kent :-) I last met him back inthe early 70's when
he was teaching (art iirc) at Hundred of Hoo School on the IOG. Do
feel free to pass on my best wishes if you see him.
Nick
>julian
>
>somewhere over southern england...
--
Julian Templeman
>Does anyone have any experience of putting nylon strings on a mandolin?
>Anyone suggest suitable string gauges?
Now here's an interesting thing...
I'm in South Wales this week, and last night I took the opportunity to
visit a luthier who lives in Merthyr Tydfil, name of Pete Howlett. He
tends to make a lot of ukeleles, which are apparently big business in
the US and Hawaii, and one thing he showed me was an eight-string,
nylon-strung uke, with the strings arranged in four courses.
So there's your nylon-strung mandolin for you...
julian
ps: he also makes storming small-body steel-string acoustics for
ragtime and blues playing. Absolutely excellent.