The Time Wars of Doctor Who

[The Doctor]

All right going back to the 4th doctor, the Genesis of the daleks
is the Genesis of this war. The Time Lords are worried about
the Daleks rivalling even them.

Next the Deadly assassin, Harmony amongst the Time Lords are broken
as

The President is assassinated and the Master tries to
tap into the Eye of Harmony.

Later Invasion of Time, the Doctor thwarts the Sontarans in the invasion
of gallifrey.

Next the KEy to Time, the White Guardian says he needs it to restore balance
to time and hte Universe. The Doctor has to disperse in as the Balck Guardian
is on top of him for it.

Next Destiny of the Daleks, Davros revived to fight the movellans
on to see Davros tried for crimes against the universe.

Next Arc of Infinity where Omega is expelled.

3 more Black guardian and white guardian appearences.

Resurrection of the Daleks where Davros can now destroy the old Daleks.

Trial of a TimeLords is an attempt to destroy the Doctor
only to see the Master thwart that.

Remembrance of the Daleks see skaro destroyed.

And then into the Time Wars.

The Doctor time locks the dlaeks and gallifrey supposedly.

Since the 9th doctor Daleks and Davros have shown up
and the master is bac on gallifrey fighting the Time Lords.

All right what does Moffat have in mind?
--
Member - Liberal International This is doc...@nl2k.ab.ca Ici doc...@nl2k.ab.ca
God,Queen and country!Never Satan President Republic!Beware AntiChrist rising!
http://www.fullyfollow.me/rootnl2k Birthdate : 29 Jan 1969 Redhill UK

[BW]

On Jan 23, 9:30 pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
> > All right  what does Moffat have in mind?
>

But how could it mesh with the mess that RTD concocted?
He just threw in some occassional references, such as The Cruciform,
The Nightmare Child, The Genesis Ark et cetera.
Did he ever sketch out some sort of coherent synopsis for
The TIme Wars?
I had imagined the war as being one where the Time Lords and Daleks
destroyed each other across all time, so that the Doctor could never
go
back "before" the wars. But that does not make sense either.
Especially when 2 Time Lords and zillions of Daleks survived it.

[The Doctor]

In article <9d352165-d821-4c30...@xm8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
BW <bru...@topmail.co.nz> wrote:
>On Jan 23, 9:30=A0pm, doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca (The Doctor) wrote:
>> > All right =A0what does Moffat have in mind?

>>
>
>But how could it mesh with the mess that RTD concocted?
>He just threw in some occassional references, such as The Cruciform,
>The Nightmare Child, The Genesis Ark et cetera.
>Did he ever sketch out some sort of coherent synopsis for
>The TIme Wars?
>I had imagined the war as being one where the Time Lords and Daleks
>destroyed each other across all time, so that the Doctor could never
>go
>back "before" the wars. But that does not make sense either.
>Especially when 2 Time Lords and zillions of Daleks survived it.

And now the Master is back on Gallifrey looking for vengeance.

[Keith Cunningham]

"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:ke0ik2$scq$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...

> In article
> <9d352165-d821-4c30...@xm8g2000pbc.googlegroups.com>,
> BW <bru...@topmail.co.nz> wrote:
>
> And now the Master is back on Gallifrey looking for vengeance.
> --

Is he though? He was last seen frazzling Rassilon. Maybe the drumming's gone
and his personality has changed. He might be the new Lord President.

KC

[The Doctor]

In article <I_-dnSo4xKYnRZ7M...@brightview.co.uk>,

The so called 'Rassilon' might be a pretender. I doubt Omega is there.

As for the Master maybe the Guards might need
to restrain him if possible.

[FishFood]

On the idea of a time war,

I rather liked the idea which was illustrated in the story
line leading up to The Wedding of River Song. You'll recall
how the doctor stopped time to prevent a catastrophy, eg his
own death. He effectively Stopped time until he'd worked out
how to cheat time. Perception being everything.

Were it to occur, a time war might be a chaotic event, plop!
or series of events. Some alluding to human history, it
triumphs, as well as its disasters. Un-inventions of all those
peoples and ideas through which we've evolve. Un-inventions
leading to sterility, and a form of wasteful domesticity.

{what if the titanic hadn't sunk, or the hindenburg hadn't
gone up in smoke. "oh the humanity" [these and more passing
references to serve as lessons on a forgotten history] }

The price of that Time war, we already know of as the
uninvention of gallifrey, wiped from time. Perhaps this
occured after one key moment failed to occur, as it should
have. Perhaps the doctor had a hand in that choice. Gallifrey
together with his immortal enemies, or the human race?

What would be the point of time lords without their sole
charge.

CGI would have a field day illustrating the coming and going
of timelines. The visual evidence of fashions and taste, the
appearance of developments and underdevelopments. Technologies
coming and going in an trice. Peoples and cultures turned on
their head, again serving to illustrate what we now take for
granted. All this at the wave of a time lord's wand.

The tardis would feature as the only device we know to
manipulate time, or maybe the Tardis had a mother, also
lost in the wars.


Now what does the doctor do prevent this? What could you have
done, what can you still do to prevent it. Tagline to another
time fantasy..

[The Doctor]

My point about the Key to Time is that White Guardian wants to
prevent chaos. This might wipe out the corruption of Gallifrey in the process.

[Charles E. Hardwidge]

"FishFood" <do...@home.com> wrote in message
news:ke1snb$dc0$2...@speranza.aioe.org...

> CGI would have a field day illustrating the coming and going
> of timelines. The visual evidence of fashions and taste, the
> appearance of developments and underdevelopments. Technologies
> coming and going in an trice. Peoples and cultures turned on
> their head, again serving to illustrate what we now take for
> granted. All this at the wave of a time lord's wand.

The idea is good but I'm bored rigid by the idea of what some people would
do with the idea in practice.

I was thinking earlier that a show based on the Culture novels by Ian M.
Banks would be appealing. It would be new and an opportunity to leave all
the baggage behind.

--
Charles E. Hardwidge

[The Doctor]

In article <ke24gn$cuh$1...@dont-email.me>,

RTD and Angehides caused this Time Wars / Cell problem
with wanting to wipe Gallifrey
off the map.

[FishFood]

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <ke24gn$cuh$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Charles E. Hardwidge <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>> "FishFood" <do...@home.com> wrote in message
>> news:ke1snb$dc0$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>
>>> CGI would have a field day illustrating the coming and going
>>> of timelines. The visual evidence of fashions and taste, the
>>> appearance of developments and underdevelopments. Technologies
>>> coming and going in an trice. Peoples and cultures turned on
>>> their head, again serving to illustrate what we now take for
>>> granted. All this at the wave of a time lord's wand.
>> The idea is good but I'm bored rigid by the idea of what some people would
>> do with the idea in practice.
>>
>> I was thinking earlier that a show based on the Culture novels by Ian M.
>> Banks would be appealing. It would be new and an opportunity to leave all
>> the baggage behind.
>>
>> --
>> Charles E. Hardwidge
>
> RTD and Angehides caused this Time Wars / Cell problem
> with wanting to wipe Gallifrey
> off the map.

As soon as anyone says Gallifrey, i get these flashbacks of 'Lovies'
hamming it up, Greek tragedy style. Maybe that was part of the reason
for 'dropping' Gallifrey. And yet i can see a role for this idea of
Timelords with their own intrigues, feuding and other machinations.

Once again its a shame we don't have access to the older stories, eg
looking back to spot thuse references with an historic eye.

[The Doctor]

Dropping Gallifrey is a bad idea.

Imagine Britons without a Homeland.

[Keith Cunningham]

"The Doctor" <doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote in message

news:ke4mlm$9rh$1...@gallifrey.nk.ca...

The Brirish have lots of homelands. It goes with being an island people. All
through history all sorts of things have been washed up on the shore.

KC

[jack....@gmail.com]

The Doctor wrote:


>Dropping Gallifrey is a bad idea.
>
>Imagine Britons without a Homeland.

Imagine Superman without Krypton.

--
-Jack

[The Doctor]

In article <kd-dne8J_uRX15vM...@brightview.co.uk>,

Lots? Are you doing an RTD?

[The Doctor]

In article <pamcg8hrktelsbh17...@4ax.com>,

That is a premise.

In DW Gallifrey was already existing.

[FishFood]

The question i suppose is what else is Gallifrey besides the Doctor's
home planet.

It has to represent more than a base, for it to figure in the plot.
If it were somehow intrinsic to the maintenance of time, then you
could have all kinds of politicing on that level. Different 'interests'
on the design of time, as an example. Time as a form of capital might
figure, if it could be worked out. Could time have a value? And if so
who would profit from this perspective.

Gallifrey and the timelords, could still be made an interesting key
concept.. but it would have to be more than a home for 'lovies',
'darlings' and 'resting' actors. :)

Reminds me of the tales of the heroes and Gods from the little i've
heard on Greek Mythology, which i suppose was the basis for the
Gallifrey we know. So why not go to the source again, and re-imagine
those myths, ie deliberately use Gallifrey to retell those tales.

[Stephen Wilson]

"Peter J Ross" <p...@example.invalid> wrote in message
news:slrnkgdda...@pjr.no-ip.org...
> Sorry for the piggyback; Yads's article has vanished from my server.
>
> In rec.arts.drwho on Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:17:30 +0000, FishFood

> <do...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> Dropping Gallifrey is a bad idea.
>

> Inventing Gallifrey was a bad idea.

>
>>> Imagine Britons without a Homeland.
>

> They're known as Americans, Canadians, etc.

Seeing as the population of Britain came from elsewhere in the first place,
you could also say we're Celtic, Roman, Anglo-Saxan, Norman, etc...

[FishFood]

and don't forget the Arabs, aka the ..... ;)

[Keith Cunningham]

"FishFood" <do...@home.com> wrote in message

news:ke6h3h$qhj$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

Some Arabic soldiers came over with the Romans and were stationed near
Hadrian's wall.

KC

[The Doctor]

Gallifrey reminds me of the old British Empire.

[The Doctor]

In article <slrnkgdda...@pjr.no-ip.org>,

Peter J Ross <peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:
>Sorry for the piggyback; Yads's article has vanished from my server.
>

>In rec.arts.drwho on Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:17:30 +0000, FishFood

><do...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> The Doctor wrote:
>>
>>> Dropping Gallifrey is a bad idea.
>

>Inventing Gallifrey was a bad idea.

Not a fan of the War Games then.

>
>>> Imagine Britons without a Homeland.
>

>They're known as Americans, Canadians, etc.
>

Oh?!

>
>--
>PJR :-) | οἵη περ φύλλων γενεὴ, τοίη δὲ καὶ ἀνδρῶν.
> | φύλλα τὰ μέν τ' ἄνεμος χαμάδις χέει, ἄλλα δέ θ' ὕλη
> | τηλεθόωσα φύει, ἔαρος δ' ἐπιγίγνεται ὥρη·
> | ὣς ἀνδρῶν γενεὴ ἡ μὲν φύει ἡ δ' ἀπολήγει. (Homer)

[The Doctor]

In article <slrnkgdhf...@pjr.no-ip.org>,

Peter J Ross <peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:

>In rec.arts.drwho on Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:52:43 -0000, Stephen Wilson

>My homeland is Scotland, where I haven't lived since the 1980s, so I
>suppose Yads has a point. If Scotland were taken out of time and
>space, I'd be at a loss for at least a few minutes.
>
>But then I'd remember that my dream is to live in Fiji, Samoa, Tonga
>or a similar rugby-playing paradise that doesn't resemble Scotland at
>all, so Yads's argument isn't entirely convincing.
>
>

What about JEws outside of Israel for thousands of years?

[FishFood]

Not quite what i had in mind. You'll need to read between the lines
of history for this point, although the conflicts which survives in
our use of language seems also to confer... says me 'dancing' around
the alt view of history.

[The Doctor]

rome was the most efficient Empire in its days.

[The Doctor]

In article <slrnkglnu...@pjr.no-ip.org>,

Peter J Ross <peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:

>In rec.arts.drwho on Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:15:21 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor

><doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnkgdda...@pjr.no-ip.org>,
>> Peter J Ross <peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>Sorry for the piggyback; Yads's article has vanished from my server.
>>>
>>>In rec.arts.drwho on Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:17:30 +0000, FishFood
>>><do...@home.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> The Doctor wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Dropping Gallifrey is a bad idea.
>>>
>>>Inventing Gallifrey was a bad idea.
>>
>> Not a fan of the War Games then.
>

>I like the first nine episodes. The tenth episode is terrible. Even
>Bernard Horsfall can't rescue it. The Time Lords exist for no other
>reason than to allow the production team to save money on sets and
>costumes next year. Loss of the TARDIS or damage to it would have had
>the same effect and been both less risible in itself and less harmful
>to future continuity.
>

Then even late half of Episode 9 you must not like.

[The Doctor]

In article <slrnkglsb...@pjr.no-ip.org>,

Peter J Ross <peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:

>In rec.arts.drwho on Thu, 31 Jan 2013 21:41:28 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor

><doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> In article <slrnkglnu...@pjr.no-ip.org>,
>> Peter J Ross <peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>In rec.arts.drwho on Mon, 28 Jan 2013 21:15:21 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor
>>><doc...@doctor.nl2k.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In article <slrnkgdda...@pjr.no-ip.org>,
>>>> Peter J Ross <peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:
>>>>>Sorry for the piggyback; Yads's article has vanished from my server.
>>>>>
>>>>>In rec.arts.drwho on Mon, 28 Jan 2013 17:17:30 +0000, FishFood
>>>>><do...@home.com> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> The Doctor wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Dropping Gallifrey is a bad idea.
>>>>>
>>>>>Inventing Gallifrey was a bad idea.
>>>>
>>>> Not a fan of the War Games then.
>>>
>>>I like the first nine episodes. The tenth episode is terrible. Even
>>>Bernard Horsfall can't rescue it. The Time Lords exist for no other
>>>reason than to allow the production team to save money on sets and
>>>costumes next year. Loss of the TARDIS or damage to it would have had
>>>the same effect and been both less risible in itself and less harmful
>>>to future continuity.
>>
>> Then even late half of Episode 9 you must not like.
>

>Unlike Episode 10, Episode 9 is enjoyably dramatic, with an excellent
>cliffhanger, but I'd be willing to lose some of the drama and all of
>the cliffhanger if they hadn't led up to the biggest disappointment in
>Doctor Who ever.
>
>Gallifrey was, and still is, the worst-realised alien planet after
>Marinus.
>
>
>

You did not like Mairun?

[Your Name]

In article <slrnkgm7h...@pjr.no-ip.org>, Peter J Ross
<peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:

> In rec.arts.drwho on Fri, 1 Feb 2013 01:17:14 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor

> Who or what is Mairun? Animal, vegetable or mineral?

None of the above - Mairun is a Gallifrian "fun" run held during the month
of Mai. ;-)

[The Doctor]

In article <slrnkgm7h...@pjr.no-ip.org>,

Peter J Ross <peadar...@gmx.com> wrote:

>In rec.arts.drwho on Fri, 1 Feb 2013 01:17:14 +0000 (UTC), The Doctor

What did you not like about MArinus?

[The Doctor]

In article <YourName-010...@203-118-187-64.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,

LOL!

[FishFood]

Or so the culture always has to remind us.

Efficient until something endemic to its nature
caused it to implode.

Maybe this idea of Rome, is a European idea for
itself. One could make the same claim of the
Mayans, or the Egyptians, or any number of other
civilization cast around the world. What of all
those eastern system we never hear of?

Anyway, what exactly do we mean by efficient.
the word itself points to the absence of waste.
Mean and lean. The straightest path between any
two points. Maybe this idea of efficiency is only
to be seen in retrospect and can't be determined
at the time. All those short cuts, might be more
wasteful in the long term, than the meandering
path favored by nature which has no idea of where
its going until it gets there.

But back to the Roman idea of empire... It was
certainly more efficient than what existed before
it. And compared to what followed immediately
after, one could say it was more efficient. It
allowed the best ideas to thrive, perhaps that
was were it succeeded, as other system gave way
to chaos. Clear sharp focused ideas of order.

If one had to summaries the Romans, i would say
it demonstrated brains as well as brawn...

[The Doctor]

WEll Roman has a vast Empire before its collapse in the 6th Century.

[Charles E. Hardwidge]

"FishFood" <do...@home.com> wrote in message

news:kek06e$7bh$1...@speranza.aioe.org...

> If one had to summaries the Romans, i would say
> it demonstrated brains as well as brawn...

The Roman's were methodical. I'm not sure they were especially clever or
even particularly nice as far as civilisations go. Their imprint can be seen
in UK structures as well.

--
Charles E. Hardwidge

[The Doctor]

In article <kekblr$uab$1...@dont-email.me>,

Charles E. Hardwidge <nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:
>

UK Politics as well.

[Your Name]

In article <kekblr$uab$1...@dont-email.me>, "Charles E. Hardwidge"
<nos...@nospam.invalid> wrote:

The "Romans" simply stole everything from everyone else: building styles,
beliefs, even their whole civilisation with it's laws, and "techology"
(aqueducts, etc.). They stole from the Greeks, the Egyptians, and from the
people who originally settled in the area now called Rome. The Romans were
basically the Microsoft of the ancient world. :-)

[The Doctor]

In article <YourName-030...@203-118-187-110.dsl.dyn.ihug.co.nz>,

There is a good way of defining M$.

[FishFood]

Perhaps what we see as methodical, is in fact evidence of a highly
bureaucratic system. It might be better to say the Romans where
control freaks, with managers and officiates at every turn, and be
done with that...

Empires, don't you just love em.

[Charles E. Hardwidge]

"FishFood" <do...@home.com> wrote in message

news:kelu49$77h$2...@speranza.aioe.org...

I've never thought about the Roman's that way before!

I've been reading up on English law and legal history and how officialdom
ticks. Ugh. I feel so overstimulated over nothing at all. It's like eating
too much jelly and ice cream when you're a kid.


--
Charles E. Hardwidge

[The Doctor]

And the mmodel continues.

[FishFood]

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <kelu49$77h$2...@speranza.aioe.org>, FishFood <do...@home.com> wrote:
>> Charles E. Hardwidge wrote:
>>> "FishFood" <do...@home.com> wrote in message
>>> news:kek06e$7bh$1...@speranza.aioe.org...
>>>
>>>> If one had to summaries the Romans, i would say
>>>> it demonstrated brains as well as brawn...
>>> The Roman's were methodical. I'm not sure they were especially clever or
>>> even particularly nice as far as civilisations go. Their imprint can be
>>> seen in UK structures as well.
>>>
>> Perhaps what we see as methodical, is in fact evidence of a highly
>> bureaucratic system. It might be better to say the Romans where
>> control freaks, with managers and officiates at every turn, and be
>> done with that...
>>
>> Empires, don't you just love em.
>
> And the mmodel continues.

Yep, except now we have machines in the place of the officiate.
Machines which are there to be obeyed, before one ever considers
their covert decrees. One can't really question a machine, its
not the done thing. Instead one does ones best to interpret the
will of the machine.

but that's a magic-realist take on the present/future... i'd
love to see the implications of this in a story. Human beings
cheating improbable machines.

BTw isn't it about time someone did a revamp on HitchHickers...
I know we had the movie a short while back, but a revamped
of the series, with its surreal take, would be a fine thing
right about now.

If fulfilled a place back in the day, created its own niche.
Whose to say that place doesn't still exist to be filled in
the same way.

[The Doctor]

Automation will kill humanity.

[FishFood]

Automated beliefs allied to a study of human flaws and bias,
will make it so that we just don't see a reason to care.

"... because the machine said so"

Behind ever clever machine there's a clever programmer,
a smart bright system of earnest well meaning en devour,
or so we have to tell ourselves, but whose to say that
clever program isn't also there to be exploited by the
spiteful hacker. Who would know or care, or bother to check.

Automated production of this and that, seeded here,
served there. Transported through a largely anonymous
industry, as the product of numbers.

Flash backs to that movie 'Eagle eye', but of course
that's only science fiction... right? Then there's that
Sandra bullock movie, 'The Net', which only hints at the
possibility. That was then, 1995, look at us now.

Automated these days also apply to our national health,
with so much potential between us and our machines for
mystery. I guess its not really about the machines, but
about man. He never changes, that potential only has to
be automated ....

but where's my manners, shouldn't we be talking about
Time wars, and clever ways to play with time.

Ah the psychology of time, and the ways time keeps us
astranged from our effects.

[The Doctor]

Think for yourself.

[FishFood]

The Doctor wrote:
> In article <kepc81$ojl$1...@speranza.aioe.org>, FishFood <do...@home.com> wrote:

>

> Think for yourself.

We, us, them, you, me, I , one.