Great Expectations - SPOILERS
Luke Croll
What did people think of the BBC's latest adaption of 'Great
Expectations'?
It wasn't quite as good as I had hoped. The person chosen to play Orlick
seemed to be the wrong person for the job, with the long ginger hair,
and whenever I looked at Magwitch, I always imagined him playing Bottom
in 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'.
I didn't like the way that they portrayed the death of Miss Havisham. To
me, it seemed to imply that she had comitted suicide, when in the book,
this is not the case at all. This was only my feeling, but I'd be
interested to see what other people thought of this scene.
The other bit I didn't like was the ending. In the book, Pip returns to
the forge to see that Joe and Biddy have a son, named Pip. He then goes
to Satis House, which has been razed to the ground. He finds a widowed
Estella in the garden, Drummle having been killed in a riding accent and
they walk off into the sunset, leaving you to assume that they go to get
married.
I don't like it at all when they change the endings. Dickens had written
a perfectly good ending and the BBC changed it for unknown reasons.
However, compared to what they did to 'The Woman In White', 'Great
Expectations' got off lightly.
Other opinions?
--
Luke Croll
Duncan
Luke Croll wrote:
> I thought I'd better put a spoiler warning in the header, just in case.
> What did people think of the BBC's latest adaption of 'Great
> Expectations'?
Thought I'd get bored but didn't at all. Had a few faults but generally
very good. Kept me glued to the screen.
>
>
> It wasn't quite as good as I had hoped. The person chosen to play Orlick
> seemed to be the wrong person for the job, with the long ginger hair,
...and what happened to him?
> and whenever I looked at Magwitch, I always imagined him playing Bottom
> in 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'.
>
> I didn't like the way that they portrayed the death of Miss Havisham. To
> me, it seemed to imply that she had comitted suicide, when in the book,
> this is not the case at all. This was only my feeling, but I'd be
> interested to see what other people thought of this scene.
Um... bit perfunctory, yeah. Trouble is, the way I tremember it from the
book, this was one of the key scenes: Pip wasn't actually present, he'd
already said his bit and left and he saw and heard her through a window
(like I said, that's just how I remember it). Also, why did he have a
premonition of her hanging herself?
>
>
> The other bit I didn't like was the ending. In the book, Pip returns to
> the forge to see that Joe and Biddy have a son, named Pip.
That's OK. They had to cut something & that wasn't essential.
> He then goes
> to Satis House, which has been razed to the ground. He finds a widowed
> Estella in the garden, Drummle having been killed in a riding accent and
> they walk off into the sunset, leaving you to assume that they go to get
> married.
That *is* weird. That sounds like a modern fear of a happy ending - surfeit
of irony 'n all that and frankly, a copout. They should've stuck to the
text, although they must've left satis House standing (he did say he'd
raize it in the TVprog - an in-joke?) so they could set up the card game at
the end. that scene was nicked from a movie, btw, buggered if I can
remember which.
>
>
> I don't like it at all when they change the endings. Dickens had written
> a perfectly good ending and the BBC changed it for unknown reasons.
> However, compared to what they did to 'The Woman In White', 'Great
> Expectations' got off lightly.
>
> Other opinions?
I liked it, all in all. Orlick's fate was a loose end - was it in the book
too? Of course, the book relies on a ridiculous coincidence anyway, so you
can't expect too much realism. Magwitch wasn't scary enough (cf David
Lean). What I noticed was the modern body language everybody had - women
wouldn't have exhibited that much confidence in 'company' and neither would
Pip, being working class. (I missed the scene of Pip's embarrasement with
Joe - a key scenee. Pip is much more of a snotty social climber than
portrayed, more jealous of the middle classes - but then, it was only three
hours long.) At one point Pip says he feels "screwed up" - it fitted the
script but I couldn't help feeling this had been deliberately modernised
(for the US audience too?)
And why do they always adapt the same half dozen Dickens stories? Lat's
have something else...
>
Chris
<Lu...@mills1.demon.co.uk>
>I thought I'd better put a spoiler warning in the header, just in case.
>What did people think of the BBC's latest adaption of 'Great
>Expectations'?
(snip)
>
>Other opinions?
Having neither read the book nor seen the original film (where have I
been!) I am judging this as a standalone drama. I don't usually watch
costume/period dramas but this had me captivated from the opening scene.
The sets and photography were excellent, the exteriors were beautifully
captured, the marsh scenes were suitably atmospheric and the London
scenes (filmed in Edinburgh, I believe) were moody and...er..Dickensian.
OK, it wasn't true to the book, somewhat dissapointing to purists and
afficianados, I suspect, but in this case of no consequence to me.
The casting was good, Rampling was exceptional, Justine Waddell was
gorgeous, if not beguiling. Clive Russell played Joe Gargery with
wonderful rustic naivete. Grufudd was fairly average.
My only criticism would be the inexplicable and total change of Pip's
accent/dialect after only a few months in London - although it did
resurface after a few sherrys at the party! Perhaps his 'posh' accent
was deliberately 'put on' in the book, I don't know.
I enjoyed it.
--
Chris-S
critic
I found the camera-work incredibly intrusive. For instance, near the
beginning during the meal, we got some great shots up the men's noses.
During the following scene, I realised that I had no idea what they'd
been talking about. I'm all for innovative, experimental use of modern
technology, but when it detracts from the entertainment, I would
consider the experiment a failure.
On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:41:41 +0100, Duncan <dun...@airstream.co.uk>
wrote:
>And why do they always adapt the same half dozen Dickens stories? Lat's
>have something else...
>
You'll be pleased to know that ITV are producing a new version of
Oliver Twist, with a screenplay by Alan Bleasdale, with Lindsay (or is
it Lesley) Duncan and Robert Lindsay.
-----
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Luke Croll
<dun...@airstream.co.uk> writes
>
>
>Luke Croll wrote:
>> It wasn't quite as good as I had hoped. The person chosen to play Orlick
>> seemed to be the wrong person for the job, with the long ginger hair,
>
>...and what happened to him?
>
long since I've read it.
>> and whenever I looked at Magwitch, I always imagined him playing Bottom
>> in 'A Midsummer Night's Dream'.
>>
>> I didn't like the way that they portrayed the death of Miss Havisham. To
>> me, it seemed to imply that she had comitted suicide, when in the book,
>> this is not the case at all. This was only my feeling, but I'd be
>> interested to see what other people thought of this scene.
>
>Um... bit perfunctory, yeah. Trouble is, the way I tremember it from the
>book, this was one of the key scenes: Pip wasn't actually present, he'd
>already said his bit and left and he saw and heard her through a window
>(like I said, that's just how I remember it). Also, why did he have a
>premonition of her hanging herself?
>
The premonition was something that was in the book. If I remember
correctly he had it more than once as well. I think Pip was just walking
away when Havisham got burnt. He burnt his hands badly trying to save
her but that was glossed over very quickly in the show as well.
>> The other bit I didn't like was the ending. In the book, Pip returns to
>> the forge to see that Joe and Biddy have a son, named Pip.
>
>That's OK. They had to cut something & that wasn't essential.
>
Yeah, but it was such a lovely scene - he walks in and everything is
happy again and suchlike.
>> He then goes
>> to Satis House, which has been razed to the ground. He finds a widowed
>> Estella in the garden, Drummle having been killed in a riding accent and
>> they walk off into the sunset, leaving you to assume that they go to get
>> married.
>
>That *is* weird. That sounds like a modern fear of a happy ending - surfeit
>of irony 'n all that and frankly, a copout. They should've stuck to the
>text, although they must've left satis House standing (he did say he'd
>raize it in the TVprog - an in-joke?) so they could set up the card game at
>the end. that scene was nicked from a movie, btw, buggered if I can
>remember which.
>
I don't think it was an injoke. To me, it just ruined the ending.
>> I don't like it at all when they change the endings. Dickens had written
>> a perfectly good ending and the BBC changed it for unknown reasons.
>> However, compared to what they did to 'The Woman In White', 'Great
>> Expectations' got off lightly.
>>
>> Other opinions?
>
>I liked it, all in all. Orlick's fate was a loose end - was it in the book
>too? Of course, the book relies on a ridiculous coincidence anyway, so you
>can't expect too much realism. Magwitch wasn't scary enough (cf David
>Lean). What I noticed was the modern body language everybody had - women
>wouldn't have exhibited that much confidence in 'company' and neither would
>Pip, being working class. (I missed the scene of Pip's embarrasement with
>Joe - a key scenee. Pip is much more of a snotty social climber than
>portrayed, more jealous of the middle classes - but then, it was only three
>hours long.) At one point Pip says he feels "screwed up" - it fitted the
>script but I couldn't help feeling this had been deliberately modernised
>(for the US audience too?)
>
>And why do they always adapt the same half dozen Dickens stories? Lat's
>have something else...
The Joe embarassment scene with the hat should have been in it, I was
surprised that I didn't notice it until you just pointed it out. It was
Joe that nursed Pip through his illness.
As for the other post about his accent, I think that was because he had
had elocution lessons with Mr. Pocket but the alcohol made his voice
change back to the way it was when he was on the marshes. Note: they
should have been the Kentish marshes, but they didn't look Kentish nor
very marshy.
--
Luke Croll
Duncan
critic wrote:
> I must be old-fashioned or something, not having a wide-screen TV, but
> I found the camera-work incredibly intrusive. For instance, near the
> beginning during the meal, we got some great shots up the men's noses.
> During the following scene, I realised that I had no idea what they'd
> been talking about. I'm all for innovative, experimental use of modern
> technology, but when it detracts from the entertainment, I would
> consider the experiment a failure.
Heh. Modern filming 'vocabulary', innit.
>
>
> On Wed, 14 Apr 1999 21:41:41 +0100, Duncan <dun...@airstream.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
> >And why do they always adapt the same half dozen Dickens stories? Lat's
> >have something else...
> >
> You'll be pleased to know that ITV are producing a new version of
> Oliver Twist, with a screenplay by Alan Bleasdale, with Lindsay (or is
> it Lesley) Duncan and Robert Lindsay.
Jesus. I'm afraid that's *exactly* what I mean. Oliver bleedin' Twist. Why
is it always Oliver bleedin' Twist? If it's not him it's Great Expectations
or David flippin' Copperfield. Why can't these commissioning bastards show
a bit of originality? AND it's always the same old actors. Presumably, if
Robert Lindsay doesn't appear in every second costume drama going he gets
compensation.
>
Martin Underwood
Chris <Ch...@turmoil.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:V5zRdDAu...@turmoil.demon.co.uk...
> Whilst browsing my newsgroup messages, I found this from Luke Croll
> <Lu...@mills1.demon.co.uk>
> >I thought I'd better put a spoiler warning in the header, just in case.
> >What did people think of the BBC's latest adaption of 'Great
> >Expectations'?
>
> (snip)
> >
> >Other opinions?
>
> Having neither read the book nor seen the original film (where have I
> been!) I am judging this as a standalone drama. I don't usually watch
> costume/period dramas but this had me captivated from the opening scene.
>
> The sets and photography were excellent, the exteriors were beautifully
> captured, the marsh scenes were suitably atmospheric and the London
> scenes (filmed in Edinburgh, I believe) were moody and...er..Dickensian.
> OK, it wasn't true to the book, somewhat dissapointing to purists and
> afficianados, I suspect, but in this case of no consequence to me.
>
> The casting was good, Rampling was exceptional, Justine Waddell was
> gorgeous, if not beguiling. Clive Russell played Joe Gargery with
> wonderful rustic naivete. Grufudd was fairly average.
I was intrigued to see how very similar Clive Russell's portrayal of Joe was
to Phillip Joseph's in the BBC's production of the mid 80s (one of a series
of Dickens adaptations shown at Sunday teatimes, with Stratford Johns as
Magwitch and Joan Hickson as Miss H; another had Martin Jarvis as Uriah
Heep).
Does anyone know when these versions were made/shown and is there a cast
list for them? I'm trying to set up entries on IMDB for them (I was
surprised that they were missing).
> My only criticism would be the inexplicable and total change of Pip's
> accent/dialect after only a few months in London - although it did
> resurface after a few sherrys at the party! Perhaps his 'posh' accent
> was deliberately 'put on' in the book, I don't know.
>
> I enjoyed it.
I found that there were a few "linking passages" that needed to be expanded
a bit: it wasn't really explained _why_ Miss Haversham summoned Pip to her
house. OK, we found out later, but at the time we just saw Mrs Joe scrubbing
Pip and someone saying "You're going to see Miss Haversham" [whose name had
never been mentioned before IIRC].
Similarly, why did Abel Magwitch decide to become Pip's "sponsor" - was it
based purely on the fact that Pip had given him food right at the beginning?
Did Magwitch know the identity of his long-lost daughter (Estella) - was it
pure coincidence that lives of Pip, Miss H and Estella became intertwined?
Also, I don't think Biddy's name was mentioned when she was first teaching
Pip his letters (the letter D, to be precise!), so it wasn't immediately
obvious when we saw older Pip and older Biddy (played by different
actor/actress) that these were the same characters.