OT: Ping Umra's bread makers

[Jenny M Benson]

I've just bought a new bread machine (Morphy Richards) and the recipe
for wholemeal bread includes "100 mg vitamin C tablet, crushed."

I am having a spectacular failure finding such a thing as 100 mg Vitamin
C tablets. The nearest I can find is 100mg Vitamin C with Zinc. Will
these do? Or can I omit the Vitamin C? Ir if you have sourced these,
where?
--
Jenny M Benson

[Kate B]

The vitamin C is a flour improver, supposed to make it rise better. I
add a squish of lemon juice, though only to white bread, as the
wholemeal seems to be OK without.

--
Kate B
London

[Jim Easterbrook]

The zinc won't hurt. It's naturally present in Canadian flour and is
supposed to help stave off Alzheimer's.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

[Mike]

Boots used to sell them; they are to accelerate the rise.

--
Toodle Pip

[Mike Ruddock]

No, I think the Vit C is to give a boost to the yeast. Certainly that
was what I was told by our DomSci teacher when she got the pupils making
bread. The time available in lessons is too short for proper rising etc
to taker place and the Vit C helps.

I have a Morphy Richards bread maker and I am not happy with it. I find
the recipes absurd: for white bread they require you to use over 2
tablespoons of sugar, which makes the bread taste like cake. My previous
machine (Panasonic) used 1 teaspoonful of sugar and produced excellent
bread.

For the Vit C I use the 1000mg Vit C available from Boots and crack the
tablets into eights. OK so it isn't a tenth, but with recipes like
theirs who gives a damn?

Mike Ruddock

[Jenny M Benson]

On 21-Aug-17 02:58 PM, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> The zinc won't hurt. It's naturally present in Canadian flour and is
> supposed to help stave off Alzheimer's.

Many thanks, Kate & Jim. I've started a loaf without Vit C but with
hope, and ordered some with Zinc for future use. (I doubt the amount of
bread I eat will affect my brain much, unfortunately! A friend of mine
has told me at least twice what is particularly good for the memory, but
I need to remember to ask her again what it is because I've forgotten!)

--
Jenny M Benson

[BrritSki]

On 21/08/2017 15:58, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> Jenny M Benson wrote:
>
>> I've just bought a new bread machine (Morphy Richards) and the recipe
>> for wholemeal bread includes "100 mg vitamin C tablet, crushed."
>>
>> I am having a spectacular failure finding such a thing as 100 mg Vitamin
>> C tablets. The nearest I can find is 100mg Vitamin C with Zinc. Will
>> these do? Or can I omit the Vitamin C? Ir if you have sourced these,
>> where?
>
> The zinc won't hurt. It's naturally present in Canadian flour and is
> supposed to help stave off Alzheimer's.
>

Hello dear, do you know who I am and where I left my loaf ?

[Peter Percival]

Mike Ruddock wrote:

> I have a Morphy Richards bread maker and I am not happy with it. I
> find the recipes absurd: for white bread they require you to use over
> 2 tablespoons of sugar, which makes the bread taste like cake. My
> previous machine (Panasonic) used 1 teaspoonful of sugar and produced
> excellent bread.

Have you tried using the Panasonic recipes in the Morphy Richards machine?

> For the Vit C I use the 1000mg Vit C available from Boots and crack
> the tablets into eights. OK so it isn't a tenth, but with recipes
> like theirs who gives a damn?

Frankly my dear I don't.

--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

[Jenny M Benson]

On 21-Aug-17 03:37 PM, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>
> I have a Morphy Richards bread maker and I am not happy with it. I find
> the recipes absurd: for white bread they require you to use over 2
> tablespoons of sugar, which makes the bread taste like cake. My previous
> machine (Panasonic) used 1 teaspoonful of sugar and produced excellent
> bread.

I knew Umrats favoured the Panasonic but their models seemed to be more
expensive than many others. My sister had recently bought a MR
(slightly cheaper model than mine) and was delighted with it, which
partly swayed me, but I was also influenced by a review by the Good
Housekeeping Institute.

I wonder if one can use recipes from other machines, provided the basics
are much the same - ie the amount of flour fits with the size of loaf
the machine is designed for. One of the reasons for choosing my model
is that it does 4 different sizes and I mostly want the smallest. My
previous machine, a Prima, made big loaves with less sugar but although
I think it must have been good when I first got it about 20 years ago,
it started making inedible bread!

--
Jenny M Benson

[Flop]

On 21/08/2017 14:35, Jenny M Benson wrote:

Vitamin C works wonders. It makes the loaf significantly lighter.

I would not advise crushed tablets as these tend to produce large air
bubbles.
My suggestion would be to buy pharmaceutical grade powder from either
Holland & Barrett or eBay. [The latter is cheaper by far and we have
never had a poor loaf using it].

Do not use too much ( a tiny pinch suffices) or the loaf will spill over
the side of the pan.


--

Flop
General Norman Schwarzkopf was asked if he thought there was room for
forgiveness toward terrorists.
The General said, "I believe that forgiving them is God's function...
OUR job is to arrange the meeting."

[Flop]

A word of caution to those planning to buy a breadmaker.

For some reason, most manufacturers quote the size of loaf produced as a
final weight (2lb loaf) whereas Panasonic quote theirs as flour weight.

So, a Morphy Richards 2lb (900g) loaf will contain (very approximately)
600g flour and 300g water.

A 600g Panasonic loaf will contain 600g flour and 300g water to make a
900g loaf.

Confusing.



--

Flop

[Mike]

Jenny M Benson <nemo...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Interchangeability of recipes should be fine as long as overall quantities
don't exceed settings or capacity of the BM. We are on our third or fourth
Panasonic BM and though 'spensive, they are good and I still use receipts
that came with our first chamine some 20 years or more ago. I do take
liberties and usually get away with them never had to use ground up tablets
at all; I use one tsp. Sugar with 500 grams of flour total, often a mixture
of flours and I add bran, sesame seeds and poppy seeds on many occasions.

--
Toodle Pip

[LFS]

On 21/08/2017 14:35, Jenny M Benson wrote:

I used to bake bread a lot when the children were home but these days I
resist the temptation because I would eat too much. But why use a
machine? Making bread is the most therapeutic type of cookery that I
know, although these days my wonky fingers don't let me knead like I
used to and I rely on my Kenwood for that. I leave the dough to rise in
the fridge overnight and can then decide how I want to shape it before
baking it the next morning. What are the advantages of a machine?

--
Laura (emulate St George for email)

[Mike]

I know what you mean about therapy Laura but, laziness and convenience mean
I resort to the BM almost every time. We don't have enough airing cupboard
space so am otherwise reliant on ambient temperature or overnight fridge
job. The machine is loaded and four or five hours later, I don oven gloves
and remove another beautifully aromatic wonder from the BM. At one time, we
only had an oven capable of 200 o C. And so this made for difficulties; I
enjoy making bread and I also have Mr. Ken Wood with his dough hook to
help. There is something special about hand made and home baked I know....
but Mr. Panasonic still does most of ours for me.

--
Toodle Pip

[LFS]

<like>

[Penny]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 14:35:57 +0100, Jenny M Benson <nemo...@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

Boots used to sell plain vit C tablets, I may still have some my brewing
days and think I did try them (dissolved in water) when making bread. I use
vit C powder (from Boots usually but supplies do run low in summer) when
making cordials - can't remember why the recipe suggests it. I gather it
became difficult to get in some urban areas - shops wouldn't stock it
because of use by drug dealers. Around here it may be more common to make
lemonade - I couldn't say one way or the other.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

[Jim Easterbrook]

Penny wrote:
>
> Boots used to sell plain vit C tablets, I may still have some my brewing
> days and think I did try them (dissolved in water) when making bread. I
> use vit C powder (from Boots usually but supplies do run low in summer)
> when making cordials - can't remember why the recipe suggests it.

Anti-oxidant I expect. Same as using lemon juice to stop apples
discolouring.

[Btms]

Jim Easterbrook <ne...@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> wrote:
> Penny wrote:
>>
>> Boots used to sell plain vit C tablets, I may still have some my brewing
>> days and think I did try them (dissolved in water) when making bread. I
>> use vit C powder (from Boots usually but supplies do run low in summer)
>> when making cordials - can't remember why the recipe suggests it.
>
> Anti-oxidant I expect. Same as using lemon juice to stop apples
> discolouring.

Just to sat how much I appreciate the science knowledge shared here. I
have very little of my own.

--
BTMS - Equine Advisor Extraordinaire.

[Sally Thompson]

Jenny M Benson <nemo...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

You can buy Vitamin C powder specially for bread making. I bought some at
one time when I used a bread maker but I found it didn't make a difference.
I could meet you in Shrewsbury and give you what I have left!! You can buy
it in a whole food shop.

--
Sally in Shropshire, UK

[Sally Thompson]

I tried a machine and didn't get on with it. I make mine very very slowly
with fresh yeast and no sugar, but I do use the dough hook on my Kenwood
Chef to help with the kneading process. Fresh yeast and taking time makes
the best bread ever.

[Jim Easterbrook]

Sally Thompson wrote:
>
> I tried a machine and didn't get on with it. I make mine very very slowly
> with fresh yeast and no sugar, but I do use the dough hook on my Kenwood
> Chef to help with the kneading process. Fresh yeast and taking time makes
> the best bread ever.

I disagree. I'm doing nothing but sourdough these days, which is much slower
than using fresh yeast, but really does make the best bread ever. (-:

[Sally Thompson]

Jim Easterbrook <ne...@jim-easterbrook.me.uk> wrote:
> Sally Thompson wrote:
>>
>> I tried a machine and didn't get on with it. I make mine very very slowly
>> with fresh yeast and no sugar, but I do use the dough hook on my Kenwood
>> Chef to help with the kneading process. Fresh yeast and taking time makes
>> the best bread ever.
>
> I disagree. I'm doing nothing but sourdough these days, which is much slower
> than using fresh yeast, but really does make the best bread ever. (-:

Sadly I don't much like sourdough bread, but I did at one time make a lot
of sponge dough bread where you make the sponge and leave it overnight. I
had to be even more organised than the all day method I use, though, and it
wasn't always successful. What I do now works 100%. By the way, to whoever
mentioned an airing cupboard up there ^^ , I just leave the dough in the
ambient temperature in the kitchen. The slower the rise the better the
bread.

[Jane Vernon]

On 21/08/2017 14:35, Jenny M Benson wrote:

I use Dove's Farm powdered vit C for baking. I bought mine at Waitrose
but I see they sell it online:
https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/products/vitamin-c-1-x-120g


--
Jane
The Potter in the Purple socks - to reply, please remove PURPLE
BTME

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm - Umrats' recipes

[John Ashby]

On 21/08/17 16:34, Mike wrote:
> Jenny M Benson <nemo...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> On 21-Aug-17 03:37 PM, Mike Ruddock wrote:
>>>
>>> I have a Morphy Richards bread maker and I am not happy with it. I find
>>> the recipes absurd: for white bread they require you to use over 2
>>> tablespoons of sugar, which makes the bread taste like cake. My previous
>>> machine (Panasonic) used 1 teaspoonful of sugar and produced excellent
>>> bread.
>>
>> I knew Umrats favoured the Panasonic but their models seemed to be more
>> expensive than many others. My sister had recently bought a MR
>> (slightly cheaper model than mine) and was delighted with it, which
>> partly swayed me, but I was also influenced by a review by the Good
>> Housekeeping Institute.
>>
>> I wonder if one can use recipes from other machines, provided the basics
>> are much the same - ie the amount of flour fits with the size of loaf
>> the machine is designed for. One of the reasons for choosing my model
>> is that it does 4 different sizes and I mostly want the smallest. My
>> previous machine, a Prima, made big loaves with less sugar but although
>> I think it must have been good when I first got it about 20 years ago,
>> it started making inedible bread!
>>
>
> Interchangeability of recipes should be fine as long as overall quantities
> don't exceed settings or capacity of the BM.

Check the order of wet and dry ingredients are the same. Some machines
allegedly reverse them.

john

[Fenny]

I use 60mg tablets and they're fine. I suppose using 2 would work,
too. Mine are tesco own brand.
--
Fenny

[Fenny]

On Mon, 21 Aug 2017 15:49:35 GMT, Mike <mke.mc...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

+1

I puts the ingredients in, sets the timer and wakes up to fresh bread.
Don't have to spend time doing anything other than the things I would
normally be doing.

Not that I make much bread these days, as I don't eat that much. But
my time is better spent kicking people, watching GoT or otherwise not
making bread.
--
Fenny

[Jenny M Benson]

On 21-Aug-17 04:39 PM, LFS wrote:
> What are the advantages of a machine?

It's saves you having to faff about in the kitcheN! I loathe cooking
and only do it because I want/need to eat the end result.
--
Jenny M Benson

[Jenny M Benson]

On 21-Aug-17 06:40 PM, Sally Thompson wrote:
> You can buy Vitamin C powder specially for bread making. I bought some at
> one time when I used a bread maker but I found it didn't make a difference.
> I could meet you in Shrewsbury and give you what I have left!!

Oh, that would be fun! Just give me a couple of weeks, by which time my
leg should have recovered from the last Umrameet in Shrewsbury!(1)

You can buy
> it in a whole food shop.

I did ask in Holland & Barrett. They only had super powerful tabs, or
she did say something about powder but indicated it would be very
expensive - perhaps because it was in an ENORMOUS jar.

(1) I am a medical mystery. No probs with leg all day in Shrewsbury,
nor when I got off the train in Ruabon, but a few minutes later my ankle
felt painful and I limped home. It got worse - leg swollen by 2 cms and
pain from ankle to top-calf whenever I tried to walk. 2 sessions of
ultra-sound revealed no DVT but none of the various grades of medic I
have seen can explain it. After several days of hardly walking at all
it seems to be on the mend. Young dog is going stir-crazy, though:-(
--
Jenny M Benson

[Jenny M Benson]

On 21-Aug-17 09:59 PM, Jane Vernon wrote:
> I use Dove's Farm powdered vit C for baking.  I bought mine at Waitrose
> but I see they sell it online:
> https://www.dovesfarm.co.uk/products/vitamin-c-1-x-120g

Duly bookmarked, thank you.

--
Jenny M Benson

[Mike Ruddock]

The Panasonic I used before it gave up the ghost wanted you to put the
yeast in first, then flour and the other bits and pieces. It also
delayed for an hour before beginning to mix. (Unless you had chosen a
"quick" recipe, in which case it got on with it straight away.)
The Morphy Richards wants the water in first (and says it should be
warmed to encourage the yeast) and the yeast goes in last. When the
button is pressed it starts mixing immediately. You can delay by up to
13 hours, so what happens to the warm water then?

Not logical Captain.

Mike Ruddock

[Marjorie]

On 21/08/2017 14:35, Jenny M Benson wrote:
> I've just bought a new bread machine (Morphy Richards) and the recipe
> for wholemeal bread includes "100 mg vitamin C tablet, crushed."
>
> I am having a spectacular failure finding such a thing as 100 mg Vitamin
> C tablets.  The nearest I can find is 100mg Vitamin C with Zinc.  Will
> these do?  Or can I omit the Vitamin C?  Ir if you have sourced these,
> where?

I use a Panasonic machine - even now I'm living alone, I still like
having my own fresh bread, so as soon as a loaf is cool I put half of it
in the freezer, so I never run out.

I don't use Vit C or any other "improvers". Panasonic recipes don't
suggest them, and anyway I like my bread quite solid and not too fluffy.
For 500g flour, I only use about half a teaspoon of dried yeast, and
less than a teaspoon of salt and of sugar, plus a generous dribble of
oil. I think as long as the proportions of flour and water are about
right, you can adapt the rest to suit your taste.


--
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

[Sally Thompson]

Jenny M Benson <nemo...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

Ouch! You can buy Vitamin C powder in Lakeland too - and there's one in
Shrewsbury. <http://www.lakeland.co.uk/13122/Doves-Farm-Vitamin-C>

[Jenny M Benson]

On 22-Aug-17 08:35 AM, Mike Ruddock wrote:
> The Morphy Richards wants the water in first (and says it should be
> warmed to encourage the yeast) and the yeast goes in last. When the
> button is pressed it starts mixing immediately. You can delay by up to
> 13 hours, so what happens to the warm water then?

Your instructions may be different, but mine specify "tepid water (21-28
degrees" and elsewhere it says that all ingredients and the machine and
pan must be at "room temperature (21 deg.)

The instruction book also insists that the measuring cup must be placed
on a flat surface (1) and viewed at eye level but I find the only way to
read the markings is to hold the cup up to the light from the window and
look at it through a magnifying glass!

(1) Actually it says "a horizontal flat surface" - makes me wonder how
many people would otherwise try to use a vertical flat surface.

--
Jenny M Benson

[Nick Odell]

You certainly can use recipes for other machines or recipes from bread
maker recipe books which are designed to be cross-platform. Each machine
will have its own program version of standard, french, wholemeal etc and
it's just a matter of setting the correct program to match the recipe.

I have been buying vitamin c powder from the internet for photographic
purposes and have tried using it for bread making. With my low yeast, no
knead, long rise loaf - which is the nearest thing I do to Jim's
sourdough - it made no difference at all but with bread machine recipes,
a little does a lot.

One note of caution: if, like me, you tend to use vitamin c preparations
to ward off colds, don't bother using the vit c powder in place of
effervescent tablets of the stuff. Without all the tablet's added
ingredients, the dissolved powder tastes absolutely awful.

Nick

[Chris J Dixon]

Jenny M Benson wrote:

>The instruction book also insists that the measuring cup must be placed
>on a flat surface (1) and viewed at eye level but I find the only way to
>read the markings is to hold the cup up to the light from the window and
>look at it through a magnifying glass!

I measure all my ingredients by weight, after placing the
breadmaker bowl on a digital scale. This avoids peering at
graduations at any inclination.

I find that all liquids, to an accuracy adequate for these
purposes, can be assumed to have a density of 1 g/cc.

Similarly, recipes involving honey, syrup, treacle or molasses
are far easier to weigh than measure in spoonfuls.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
ch...@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.

[Mike]

Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
> Jenny M Benson wrote:
>
>> The instruction book also insists that the measuring cup must be placed
>> on a flat surface (1) and viewed at eye level but I find the only way to
>> read the markings is to hold the cup up to the light from the window and
>> look at it through a magnifying glass!
>
> I measure all my ingredients by weight, after placing the
> breadmaker bowl on a digital scale. This avoids peering at
> graduations at any inclination.
>
> I find that all liquids, to an accuracy adequate for these
> purposes, can be assumed to have a density of 1 g/cc.
>
> Similarly, recipes involving honey, syrup, treacle or molasses
> are far easier to weigh than measure in spoonfuls.
>
> Chris

We keep malt extract (once the jar has been opened that is), in the 'fridge
- that takes some beating in the gloopiness stakes and thus patience to
measure out a tablespoonful for 'Cotswold Crunch' bread.

--
Toodle Pip

[Peter Percival]

Wet the tablespoon with cooking oil and that will stop the malt extract
sticking to it.
>


--
Do, as a concession to my poor wits, Lord Darlington, just explain
to me what you really mean.
I think I had better not, Duchess. Nowadays to be intelligible is
to be found out. -- Oscar Wilde, Lady Windermere's Fan

[Mike]

Peter Percival <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>> Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
>>> Jenny M Benson wrote:
>>>
>>>> The instruction book also insists that the measuring cup must be
>>>> placed on a flat surface (1) and viewed at eye level but I find
>>>> the only way to read the markings is to hold the cup up to the
>>>> light from the window and look at it through a magnifying glass!
>>>
>>> I measure all my ingredients by weight, after placing the
>>> breadmaker bowl on a digital scale. This avoids peering at
>>> graduations at any inclination.
>>>
>>> I find that all liquids, to an accuracy adequate for these
>>> purposes, can be assumed to have a density of 1 g/cc.
>>>
>>> Similarly, recipes involving honey, syrup, treacle or molasses are
>>> far easier to weigh than measure in spoonfuls.
>>>
>>> Chris
>>
>> We keep malt extract (once the jar has been opened that is), in the
>> 'fridge - that takes some beating in the gloopiness stakes and thus
>> patience to measure out a tablespoonful for 'Cotswold Crunch' bread.
>
> Wet the tablespoon with cooking oil and that will stop the malt extract
> sticking to it.
>>
>
>

I'll try to remember to smear wth olive oil next time!

--
Toodle Pip

[Penny]

On Wed, 23 Aug 2017 08:53:30 +0100, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

>I find that all liquids, to an accuracy adequate for these
>purposes, can be assumed to have a density of 1 g/cc.

I guess my new (cheap) scales from Lidl which will change units at the
touch of a button - unlike the other pricier one which has to be turned off
and on again - makes the same assumption when switching between g and ml.

>
>Similarly, recipes involving honey, syrup, treacle or molasses
>are far easier to weigh than measure in spoonfuls.

I'm never sure about attempts to translate spoonfuls of syrupy stuff to
weight. If you use a hot metal measuring spoon you will probably get
closest to the volume of a tablespoon but was that what the recipe intended
or did they actually mean a tablespoonful plus all the gloop that sticks to
the underside?

When Sainsbury's sold treacle and syrup in glass or plastic jars I would
warm the whole jar in the microwave and pour it into the spoon but my
granny obviously didn't do this when she wrote the recipe down.

[Chris J Dixon]

Penny wrote:

>I'm never sure about attempts to translate spoonfuls of syrupy stuff to
>weight. If you use a hot metal measuring spoon you will probably get
>closest to the volume of a tablespoon but was that what the recipe intended
>or did they actually mean a tablespoonful plus all the gloop that sticks to
>the underside?

I simply look at my measuring spoons, which also show ml, and use
that figure in grammes. So far I have not encountered any
problems with this method.

[Serena Blanchflower]

On 23/08/2017 13:48, Penny wrote:
> I'm never sure about attempts to translate spoonfuls of syrupy stuff to
> weight. If you use a hot metal measuring spoon you will probably get
> closest to the volume of a tablespoon but was that what the recipe intended
> or did they actually mean a tablespoonful plus all the gloop that sticks to
> the underside?
>
> When Sainsbury's sold treacle and syrup in glass or plastic jars I would
> warm the whole jar in the microwave and pour it into the spoon but my
> granny obviously didn't do this when she wrote the recipe down.

The other question, of course, is whether your granny's spoons were the
same size as yours. You just have to hope that this isn't one of the
(relatively few) recipes where exact measurements are crucial but that
it's one where approximations are fine.

--
Best wishes, Serena
To be astonished is one of the surest ways of not growing old too
quickly. (Colette)

[Sally Thompson]

Serena Blanchflower <nos...@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
> On 23/08/2017 13:48, Penny wrote:
>> I'm never sure about attempts to translate spoonfuls of syrupy stuff to
>> weight. If you use a hot metal measuring spoon you will probably get
>> closest to the volume of a tablespoon but was that what the recipe intended
>> or did they actually mean a tablespoonful plus all the gloop that sticks to
>> the underside?
>>
>> When Sainsbury's sold treacle and syrup in glass or plastic jars I would
>> warm the whole jar in the microwave and pour it into the spoon but my
>> granny obviously didn't do this when she wrote the recipe down.
>
> The other question, of course, is whether your granny's spoons were the
> same size as yours. You just have to hope that this isn't one of the
> (relatively few) recipes where exact measurements are crucial but that
> it's one where approximations are fine.
>

The obvious thing when a weight of gloopy stuff is required is to stand the
whole jar/tin on the scales and remove the required amount.

[Penny]

On 26 Aug 2017 07:51:28 GMT, Sally Thompson
<sally.th...@gmail.com.invalid> scrawled in the dust...

But I've never seen a recipe which calls for a weight of
treacle/syrup/honey - always in tbsns.

[LFS]

I have a recipe for a traditional Jewish New Year honey cake which gives
the weight of the honey. I put all the other ingredients in a large
bowl, stand the bowl on my electronic scales and pour the honey from the
jar slowly until it reaches the required total weight.

When I asked my mum for her recipe for this cake she included "half a
jar of honey" - which wasn't very helpful...

--
Laura (emulate St George for email)

[carolet]

But a certain proportion of the gloopy stuff is lost onto the removal
implement. I would say that the obvious thing when a weight of gloopy
stuff is required is to stand the mixing bowl on the scales and add the
required amount. Any gloopy stuff that is stuck to the transfer device
can then be licked off/washed away, without any worry that it ought to
be in the culinary creation.

--


CaroleT

[Peter Percival]

carolet wrote:
> On 26/08/2017 08:51, Sally Thompson wrote:
>> Serena Blanchflower <nos...@blanchflower.me.uk> wrote:
>>> On 23/08/2017 13:48, Penny wrote:
>>>> I'm never sure about attempts to translate spoonfuls of syrupy
>>>> stuff to weight. If you use a hot metal measuring spoon you
>>>> will probably get closest to the volume of a tablespoon but was
>>>> that what the recipe intended or did they actually mean a
>>>> tablespoonful plus all the gloop that sticks to the underside?
>>>>
>>>> When Sainsbury's sold treacle and syrup in glass or plastic
>>>> jars I would warm the whole jar in the microwave and pour it
>>>> into the spoon but my granny obviously didn't do this when she
>>>> wrote the recipe down.
>>>
>>> The other question, of course, is whether your granny's spoons
>>> were the same size as yours. You just have to hope that this
>>> isn't one of the (relatively few) recipes where exact
>>> measurements are crucial but that it's one where approximations
>>> are fine.
>>>
>>
>> The obvious thing when a weight of gloopy stuff is required is to
>> stand the whole jar/tin on the scales and remove the required
>> amount.
>>
>
> But a certain proportion of the gloopy stuff is lost onto the
> removal implement.

As remarked recently, if you wet said implement with oil the gloopy
stuff won't stick to it.

> I would say that the obvious thing when a weight of gloopy stuff is
> required is to stand the mixing bowl on the scales and add the
> required amount. Any gloopy stuff that is stuck to the transfer
> device can then be licked off/washed away, without any worry that it
> ought to be in the culinary creation.
>


--

[Mike]

Now come on Sally, you're being far too logical and practical in even
suggesting this solution to Umrats!!!;-)

--
Toodle Pip

[Mike]

A guest in a Highland hotel requested 'toast and honey' for breakfast; when
the order arrived, he found a very small container of honey with a tear-off
lid - he remarked to the waiter 'I see you keep a bee'.

--
Toodle Pip

[Mike]

It is a great shame that I have to lick the malt extract off the spoon....
it is not as if I enjoy it or anything - oh no.;-)

--
Toodle Pip

[Sally Thompson]

Yes, but if the removal implement is also the stirring implement, then any
gloop on the removal implement is incorporated by the stirring. I have a
recipe for sticky gingerbread involving dark treacle on which this method
works perfectly:-)

[Sally Thompson]

Lol!

[Sally Thompson]

<g>
Husgood was astonished to find out the other day that when making my
Christmas cake in a different sized tin from the original, I had
mathematically worked out the volume of the original and calculated the
volumes of other likely sizes so that I knew exactly how much to multiply
the "original" ingredients for any given size of tin. He said "only
you...".

[Penny]

On 26 Aug 2017 11:31:57 GMT, Sally Thompson

<sally.th...@gmail.com.invalid> scrawled in the dust...

>Husgood was astonished to find out the other day that when making my
>Christmas cake in a different sized tin from the original, I had
>mathematically worked out the volume of the original and calculated the
>volumes of other likely sizes so that I knew exactly how much to multiply
>the "original" ingredients for any given size of tin. He said "only
>you...".

But YANAOU and that's just the sort of thing I'd do - and write on the
recipe.

[Sally Thompson]

<beam>
Glad IANAOU.

[Chris McMillan]

On the rare occasion I'm forced into this, it's rewritten. My brain would
not retain any of it

Sincerely Chris

[Rosemary Miskin]

Mike's tale reminds me if the time - in a Highland hotel - when my Mother asked
for brown toast. The waitress brought some /very/ well-done white toast,
and asked if it was brown enough!

Rosemary

[Peter Percival]

In Scotland one should always stick to porridge and kippers (they'll
certainly stick to you).

[Mike]

Apparently my great grandmother had her own guide for 'doneness' "if it's
brown, it's cooked, if it is black, it's buggered"

--
Toodle Pip

[LFS]

YATiggerAICMpotofhoney

[LFS]

Doesn't everyone do this? I inherited cake tins from my aunt and my mum
which were still in very good condition but non-standard sizes so I had
to do some calculations. Neither of them ever used scales and the
recipes they had at some time scribbled down were full of references to
things like "a glassful of flour". I confess I had a bit of trouble
working out the volume of my mum's favourite ring tin until I realised I
could fill it with water...

[Fenny]

Hotel toast is rarely "brown" enough for me. I tend to stipulate on
the order I want it well done, not just vaguely warm bread. I will
send it back if it's not sufficiently toasted.

Plus I prefer my bread to be brown pre-toasting.
--
Fenny

[Fenny]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 16:33:13 GMT, Mike <mke.mc...@ntlworld.com>
wrote:

I like it black, but I remember my being served with toast at my
grandparents that I thought was just about right and Grandpa took it
away and scraped off the black bits. When he brought it back, I
wasn't impressed.
--
Fenny

[Fenny]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 17:59:38 +0100, LFS <lauraDRA...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>> It is a great shame that I have to lick the malt extract off the spoon....
>> it is not as if I enjoy it or anything - oh no.;-)
>>
>
>YATiggerAICMpotofhoney

Exactly!

Roo's medicine!
--
Fenny

[Penny]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 22:11:42 +0100, Fenny <um...@removethis.onetel.net>
scrawled in the dust...

I'm not a fan of the toasting machines found in hotel breakfast buffets but
far worse is the crammed-full toast rack of ready-halved triangular slices
- they just get soggy. I always remove alternate pieces straight away and
lean them against anything handy.

[Peter Percival]

Except for grilled tomatoes. I recall Philip Harben saying that toms
should be grilled until they were black, and he was right.

[Penny]

On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 22:13:09 +0100, Fenny <um...@removethis.onetel.net>
scrawled in the dust...

>I like it black, but I remember my being served with toast at my
>grandparents that I thought was just about right and Grandpa took it
>away and scraped off the black bits. When he brought it back, I
>wasn't impressed.

My mother called that 'sharpening the toast'.

[Mike]

Peter Percival <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>> Rosemary Miskin <fp5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>> Mike's tale reminds me if the time - in a Highland hotel - when my
>>> Mother asked for brown toast. The waitress brought some /very/
>>> well-done white toast, and asked if it was brown enough!
>>>
>>> Rosemary
>>>
>>
>> Apparently my great grandmother had her own guide for 'doneness' "if
>> it's brown, it's cooked, if it is black, it's buggered"
>
> Except for grilled tomatoes. I recall Philip Harben saying that toms
> should be grilled until they were black, and he was right.
>>
>
>

Quite so, even though the basil leaves are done to a crisp by then...

--
Toodle Pip

[Peter Percival]

The basil is fawlty?

[BrritSki]

YAmywifeAICM5... oh hello Matron, I didn't see you there...

[Mike]

Peter Percival <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Mike wrote:
>> Peter Percival <peterxp...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Mike wrote:
>>>> Rosemary Miskin <fp5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> Mike's tale reminds me if the time - in a Highland hotel -
>>>>> when my Mother asked for brown toast. The waitress brought some
>>>>> /very/ well-done white toast, and asked if it was brown
>>>>> enough!
>>>>>
>>>>> Rosemary
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Apparently my great grandmother had her own guide for 'doneness'
>>>> "if it's brown, it's cooked, if it is black, it's buggered"
>>>
>>> Except for grilled tomatoes. I recall Philip Harben saying that
>>> toms should be grilled until they were black, and he was right.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> Quite so, even though the basil leaves are done to a crisp by
>> then...
>
> The basil is fawlty?
>
>>
>
>

No, it towers over everything else.

--
Toodle Pip

[LFS]

On 26/08/2017 22:11, Fenny wrote:
> On Sat, 26 Aug 2017 08:51:17 -0700 (PDT), Rosemary Miskin
> <fp5...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Mike's tale reminds me if the time - in a Highland hotel - when my Mother asked
>> for brown toast. The waitress brought some /very/ well-done white toast,
>> and asked if it was brown enough!
>>
> Hotel toast is rarely "brown" enough for me. I tend to stipulate on
> the order I want it well done, not just vaguely warm bread. I will
> send it back if it's not sufficiently toasted.

I did that several times in various hotels when away at conferences, to
the embarrassment of some colleagues. I have also sent tea back because
it was too weak. On one occasion, a bad-tempered waitress returned with
a fresh pot and extra tea bags, slamming it all down on the table. As
poured the tea into my cup and raised it to my lips. one of my
breakfasting companions observed drily "She has no doubt spat in the pot."

>
> Plus I prefer my bread to be brown pre-toasting.
>


--

[Mike]

Be mindful as to what the chef may add to the soup....

--
Toodle Pip

[Mike]

Could that be classed as Bad Taste?

--
Toodle Pip

[Vicky]

On Sun, 27 Aug 2017 12:54:58 +0100, LFS <lauraDRA...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>I have also sent tea back because
>it was too weak. On one occasion, a bad-tempered waitress returned with
>a fresh pot and extra tea bags, slamming it all down on the table. As
>poured the tea into my cup and raised it to my lips. one of my
>breakfasting companions observed drily "She has no doubt spat in the pot."

Ah, I drink my tea without milk and like Free Trade organic White tea,
so hotel tea is too strong and I ask for a pot of hot water to dilute
it with. The tea in hotels in Cuba was just right, very nicely
flavoured, although B, who likes strong builders' tea didn't like it.
Tea in other countries is usually better for me.


--

Vicky

[Jenny M Benson]

>>>
>>
>> Be mindful as to what the chef may add to the soup....
>>
>
> Could that be classed as Bad Taste?
>

A bad taste, no doubt, but not BT.
--
Jenny M Benson

[Rosalind Mitchell]

May I point out that a cove called Rock BASIL Hugo Feilding-Mellon (yes,
I know [rolls eyes]) was until a couple of months ago the haplessly
inept Cabinet Member for Housing in the Royal Borough of Kensington &
Chelsea and thus responsible for a faulty tower that burnt to a crisp?

Rosie

[Peter Percival]

His mum has said some sensible things about the so-called war on drugs.
(She's also said some potty thing on other topics, but credit where
credit's due.) She has another son called Cosmo Birdie!

[Rosalind Mitchell]

A broken clock tells the right time twice a day. She is also a fervent
advocate of trepanning, as was the father of her sons. This would
explain what happened to young Rock Basil Hugo's brains.

Rosie

[Nick Odell]

On 26/08/17 12:54, Penny wrote:
> On 26 Aug 2017 11:31:57 GMT, Sally Thompson
> <sally.th...@gmail.com.invalid> scrawled in the dust...
>

>> Husgood was astonished to find out the other day that when making my
>> Christmas cake in a different sized tin from the original, I had
>> mathematically worked out the volume of the original and calculated the
>> volumes of other likely sizes so that I knew exactly how much to multiply
>> the "original" ingredients for any given size of tin. He said "only
>> you...".
>

> But YANAOU and that's just the sort of thing I'd do - and write on the
> recipe.
>

I make Christmas cakes one year and puddings in the other year and I
make enough to ensure enough supply for at least the fallow year. And
they always taste better after maturing for a year or so, anyway. And
the point is? Oh yes: I worked out all the multipliers one year and they
are written down on a sheet of paper which I have folded into the recipe
book.

Nick

[Penny]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 17:40:24 +0100, Nick Odell
<ni...@themusicworkshop.plus.com> scrawled in the dust...

> I worked out all the multipliers one year and they
>are written down on a sheet of paper which I have folded into the recipe
>book.

I've mislaid too many sheets of paper left in recipe books or stuck to the
fridge. My calculations for various sizes of Christmas puds is written
beside the recipe in the pressure cooker book (although that isn't
necessarily the recipe I use - it's the timings that are important). At
least one of my grandmother's biscuit recipes is written on the fly leaf of
my Delia Smith (and is probably recorded elsewhere as well).

My problem these days is recording the actual variation of recipe I used
when consulting several recipes online and then possibly adjusting it to my
taste on subsequent makes. Perhaps Google Docs is the answer...

[Mike]

YAEccles and ICM1kgofraisins.

--
Toodle Pip

[Vicky]

On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 17:52:24 +0100, Penny <sp...@labyrinth.freeuk.com>
wrote:

I used to write recipes on the inside covers of cookery books or the
cooker instruction book. Then moving and new cooker I kept the cover
and had a file with recipes in, but can't find it now. Not that I cook
really now. It had mum's cheesecake, Polish, not American, and
flapjacks, but I can remember those.

--

Vicky

[Chris J Dixon]

carolet wrote:

>But a certain proportion of the gloopy stuff is lost onto the removal

>implement. I would say that the obvious thing when a weight of gloopy

>stuff is required is to stand the mixing bowl on the scales and add the
>required amount.

Which is precisely what I proposed way back up there ^^^

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
ch...@cdixon.me.uk
Plant amazing Acers.

[Chris J Dixon]

Sally Thompson wrote:

>Husgood was astonished to find out the other day that when making my
>Christmas cake in a different sized tin from the original, I had
>mathematically worked out the volume of the original and calculated the
>volumes of other likely sizes so that I knew exactly how much to multiply
>the "original" ingredients for any given size of tin. He said "only
>you...".

You mean you haven't let Excel work it out for you, and printed
the table to pop into the recipe folder?

[carolet]

On 30/08/2017 09:01, Chris J Dixon wrote:
> carolet wrote:
>
>> But a certain proportion of the gloopy stuff is lost onto the removal
>> implement. I would say that the obvious thing when a weight of gloopy
>> stuff is required is to stand the mixing bowl on the scales and add the
>> required amount.
>
> Which is precisely what I proposed way back up there ^^^
>
> Chris
>

Yes, but I didn't see it until some minutes after I wrote that, although
you'd written your about excellent method days earlier. I was annoyed
with myself for not reading the whole thread before posting, I do
normally do that. I did resolve to try harder in the "not posting before
reading everything" intention, but decided not to draw my lapse to
everybody's attention.

--


CaroleT

[Chris J Dixon]

carolet wrote:

>On 30/08/2017 09:01, Chris J Dixon wrote:

>> Which is precisely what I proposed way back up there ^^^
>

>Yes, but I didn't see it until some minutes after I wrote that, although
>you'd written your about excellent method days earlier. I was annoyed
>with myself for not reading the whole thread before posting, I do
>normally do that. I did resolve to try harder in the "not posting before
>reading everything" intention, but decided not to draw my lapse to
>everybody's attention.

It is easily done, I didn't want the thread to get into ever
decreasing circles. ;-)

[Sally Thompson]

Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
> Sally Thompson wrote:
>
>> Husgood was astonished to find out the other day that when making my
>> Christmas cake in a different sized tin from the original, I had
>> mathematically worked out the volume of the original and calculated the
>> volumes of other likely sizes so that I knew exactly how much to multiply
>> the "original" ingredients for any given size of tin. He said "only
>> you...".
>
> You mean you haven't let Excel work it out for you, and printed
> the table to pop into the recipe folder?
>
> Chris

Looks away, shuffles feet nonchalantly, whistling.

--
Sally in Shropshire, UK

[Chris J Dixon]

Sally Thompson wrote:

>Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
>> Sally Thompson wrote:
>>
>>> Husgood was astonished to find out the other day that when making my
>>> Christmas cake in a different sized tin from the original, I had
>>> mathematically worked out the volume of the original and calculated the
>>> volumes of other likely sizes so that I knew exactly how much to multiply
>>> the "original" ingredients for any given size of tin. He said "only
>>> you...".
>>
>> You mean you haven't let Excel work it out for you, and printed
>> the table to pop into the recipe folder?
>

>Looks away, shuffles feet nonchalantly, whistling.

I will confess that I have assumed equal heights, and not
considered variability in the Z-axis.

[Nick Odell]

On 28/08/17 17:52, Penny wrote:
> On Mon, 28 Aug 2017 17:40:24 +0100, Nick Odell
> <ni...@themusicworkshop.plus.com> scrawled in the dust...
>
>> I worked out all the multipliers one year and they
>> are written down on a sheet of paper which I have folded into the recipe
>> book.
>
> I've mislaid too many sheets of paper left in recipe books or stuck to the

> fridge....

Ah, if only I could lose some of the bits of paper I've folded into
books. The number of cookery books with broken spines doesn't bear
thinking about.

Nick