Ask EU - recovering deleted text

[Marjorie]

This is a bit of a long shot, but here goes:

My husband was working on a long Word document containing many hours of
work. He did something on the keyboard by accident (at least we think
that's what happened) and suddenly all there was on the screen was a
blank page. In a panic, he tried to close down the document (which still
had the title of the one he was working on) and when asked if he wanted
to save changes, said yes. Two big mistakes ...

Then he called, "Marj, help, what's happened?" The document now consists
of a blank page and all his work has been lost. A weekly backup takes
place on a Monday morning, so losing work on a Sunday night is the worst
time - the backup document has only a little of his work on it. It is
not "autosaved", as Word has no idea that it wasn't a legitimate change.

I have searched all over the place for asd files and backup files (there
are none) and tmp files, but I think I probably need to find a temporary
file which has now been deleted. From what I can gather, I'd need to
download and pay for some undeleting software, which has to be put onto
a different hard drive and then transferred via a data stick, which
sounds tricky, and I'm not sure whether I'd ever find what I'm looking
for anyway.

We're using Win Vista and Word 2007. Can anyone suggest anything else I
can try (not too techie, please, I'm floundering here!) We'd also be
interested to know how the deletion of many pages of work could have
happened accidentally in this way.

--
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

[Nick Odell]

I'm sure someone competent will come along shortly but in the
meantime, my advice - and please don't run away before I've explained
it - would be:

Use Linux.

In my opinion, the last thing you want to do is keep Windows running
because it may well tidy up and overwrite the temporary files that you
are hoping to retrieve but if you boot up the computer from one of
those free Linux CDs you will get a live, working version of Linux
running in the memory without disturbing the Windows file system. From
Linux you can then view all the Windows files, move to the appropriate
temporary directory, used by Word and, using the Open Office or Libre
Office program on the disk, inspect them in the hopes of finding the
right ones. Open/Libre Office will read Word 2007 files and allow you
to save these files somewhere you consider safe and from where you can
piece the bits back together again.

That's what I'd do - I'll be interested in other people's approaches.

Nick

[Marjorie]

I should've known someone would say that.

>
> In my opinion, the last thing you want to do is keep Windows running
> because it may well tidy up and overwrite the temporary files that you
> are hoping to retrieve but if you boot up the computer from one of
> those free Linux CDs you will get a live, working version of Linux
> running in the memory without disturbing the Windows file system. From
> Linux you can then view all the Windows files, move to the appropriate
> temporary directory, used by Word and, using the Open Office or Libre
> Office program on the disk, inspect them in the hopes of finding the
> right ones. Open/Libre Office will read Word 2007 files and allow you
> to save these files somewhere you consider safe and from where you can
> piece the bits back together again.

Even if I could do this (and I'm not sure I could), I'm not sure it
would work because I think the file I'm looking for will now be deleted
from the temp directory. I also need to act quickly, as husbad needs to
get a move on with the project and will soon resort to re-writing the
whole thing.

>
> That's what I'd do - I'll be interested in other people's approaches.
>

Me too :-)

[Jane Vernon]

I'm afraid I don't have anything encouraging to offer but I can tell you
I have heard of something similar. Someone I know had this happen with
Excel. She had about 8 sheets with data on, did something, she knows
not what, and ended up with a blank document. She took the computer to
her local computer shop and they could neither find anything with the
data on nor explain what had happened. Two object lessons to the rest
of us but sorry no help to you :(


--
Jane
The potter in the purple socks
email jane at cloth and clay dot co dot uk
http://twitter.com/purplepotter for Twitter and
http://clothandclay.blogspot.com/ for blog

http://www.clothandclay.co.uk/umra/cookbook.htm for recipes supplied by
umrats

[Marjorie]

I think if he hadn't closed the document and saved the changes, it might
have been OK, because then we could (perhaps) have clicked "Undo" and
recovered the text. But what you say makes me wonder if there is
something else going on here. I don't know of any key-combination you
can press to delete all the content of a multi-page document.

[Flop]

On 05/12/2011 14:20, Jane Vernon wrote:

I know it sounds stupid but in the past I have rested on the Return key
without realising.

Look up and there are blank pages everywhere.

First reaction is that I have deleted everything.

Second and third reactions are deleted.

Eventually found it but the only sign was a scroll bar halfway down and
that was not too obvious.


Flop

[Marjorie]

I don't think it could be this, as it was a long document with many
pages, and it happened in an instant, while he was typing.

[Derek Turner]

On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:05:26 +0000, Marjorie wrote:

> I don't think it could be this, as it was a long document with many
> pages, and it happened in an instant, while he was typing.

Easy: type Ctrl-A in mistake for Shift-A. Then hit the Back-Space or
Delete key. Ctel is right next to Shift on both sides of the keyboard.
This 'bug' is known as a PEBKAC.



--
"Capitalisation is the difference between helping
your Uncle Jack off a horse and helping your uncle jack off a horse."

[Kate Brown]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011, Marjorie wrote

FatFingers hitting [Control], [A], [spacebar], instead of [Shift] [A]
[spacebar]. That's what did it for me. Several times, in fact. Once you
realise that's what you've done, 'undo' will work. But not if you've
saved it :(

I've saved the Linux tip for the inevitable next occurrence. Can you
really boot from a Linux disc just like that and look at file
directories without setting up or installing anything? And then if you
take out the Linux and reboot will it all come back as before? Is there
any special flavour of Linux to use - I gather there are several...?





--
Kate B

PS nospam means nospam. But umra at cockaigne dot org dot uk will get through!

[a l l y]

This is no help for the present problem, but in future I'd set the backup on
Word to every 5 or 10 minutes, not weekly! On some of my graphics and music
programs I've actually got backups set for 2 minute intervals. You can do
(and lose!) a lot of work in two minutes.

ally

[Nick Odell]

On Mon, 5 Dec 2011 18:28:06 +0000, Kate Brown
<elv...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

>I've saved the Linux tip for the inevitable next occurrence. Can you

>really boot from a Linux disc just like that...

Yes you can.
Provided of course your machine has the facility to boot from the
requisite drive (I have the boot sequence on one set to
USB>CD>Floppy>HDD and the other one can be selected by pressing an 'f'
key at the right time) you can boot up Linux from a live CD/DVD and
have it run entirely in memory. It's not as fast as running it from a
HDD since it swaps bits of the program in and out of the memory as it
works but it doesn't use any of the HDD for its own purposes.

> ...and look at file

>directories without setting up or installing anything?

Yes you can.
My favourite flavour of Linux at the moment is Mint and I know from
experience that running a live CD of Mint, Ubuntu or Suse (other users
will vouch for other 'distros' I'm sure) that one of the items on the
new desktop will be called 'file system.' Thats your hard disk drive
and you can click through to any part of it. Windows hides files from
users and refuses you access to others but Linux isn't Windows and
will go where you tell it and show you what you want to see. (That
makes it powerful but also quite dangerous since there's nothing
stopping you hacking out whatever you want.) You can't launch Windows
programs but you can use Windows data files in the Linux equivalent
programs and you can modify them and save them back on the HDD again.
So a Word .doc or an Excel .xls can be modified by, say, Open Office,
then put back on the HDD to be opened again by Windows next time.

>And then if you
>take out the Linux and reboot will it all come back as before?

Yes it does.
Plus any changes you have deliberately introduced. One obvious use
might be to get rid of a pesky virus that boots itself into memory
each time you launch Windows and then replicates itself. A bit of
googling will tell you where to find the virus files so deleting them
when Windows (and the virus) is not in memory can get rid of the virus
once and for all.

>Is there
>any special flavour of Linux to use - I gather there are several...?

Horses for courses and all that. If your sole interest is Windows
rescue then choose the cheapest magazine in WH Smith with a bootable
Linux disk on the cover. If you fancy playing about with it then pick
a disk with several versions. All live CDs allow the option of putting
Linux on your hard drive alongside Windows (dual boot) but you don't
have to do this.

Nick

[Sebastian Lisken]

I haven't got much to add to the remarks made before, only that there
are free unerase programs for NTFS (the type of file system that a Windows
computer will mostly likely use). But I don't think you'd find the files
you need. PC Inspector File Recovery is one, I've also used the simplistic
"Restoration". Maybe there are better ones that I don't know of.

http://pcinspector.de/default.htm?language=1
(They sell disk forensics services)

http://www.snapfiles.com/get/restoration.html
(As I said, simplistic)

http://alternativeto.net/software/minitool-power-data-recovery-free-edition/
(maybe interesting ones here)

But as I said, don't get your hopes up - especially if you've kept on
using the drive. Sometimes a rewrite is a good thing ...

Sebastian

[Sebastian Lisken]

"a l l y" <al...@situponTAKETHEDOGGIEOUTseats.co.uk> wrote:
> This is no help for the present problem, but in future I'd set the backup on
> Word to every 5 or 10 minutes, not weekly!

A weekly backup is not the same as the Auto Recovery funtion offered in
Word - you can't even set that to only once a week and in any case, after
saving and closing a document Auto Recovery files are discarded.

Sebastian

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <UL2dnbJub_l1QUHT...@brightview.co.uk>, Marjorie

<dontuseth...@springequinox.co.uk> writes:
>On 05/12/2011 14:20, Jane Vernon wrote:
>> On 05/12/2011 12:19, Marjorie wrote:
>>> On 05/12/2011 11:50, Nick Odell wrote:
>>>> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 10:24:59 +0000, Marjorie
>>>> <dontuseth...@springequinox.co.uk> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> This is a bit of a long shot, but here goes:
>>>>>
>>>>> My husband was working on a long Word document containing many hours of
>>>>> work. He did something on the keyboard by accident (at least we think
>>>>> that's what happened) and suddenly all there was on the screen was a
>>>>> blank page. In a panic, he tried to close down the document (which

[]

>> I'm afraid I don't have anything encouraging to offer but I can tell you
>> I have heard of something similar. Someone I know had this happen with
>> Excel. She had about 8 sheets with data on, did something, she knows not
>> what, and ended up with a blank document. She took the computer to her

[]

>I think if he hadn't closed the document and saved the changes, it
>might have been OK, because then we could (perhaps) have clicked "Undo"
>and recovered the text. But what you say makes me wonder if there is
>something else going on here. I don't know of any key-combination you
>can press to delete all the content of a multi-page document.
>

Well, as others have suggested:
1. Resting on the enter key (you don't think it was that)
2. Ctrl-A, which selects everything; it doesn't have to be followed by a
delete - _any_ key you type will, of course, replace the selected text,
which if it was all of it, can be disastrous.
3. New document. I _think_ ctrl-N will do this, but there's also an icon
for it - I think on the left of the toolbar. I've certainly hit this by
mistake, and you get a blank document; your other one is still there
within Word (or Excel), but you have to switch back to it. I _thought_
quitting Word would save it, but I'm not sure.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

A leader who keeps his ear to the ground allows his rear end to become a
target.
-Angie Papadakis

[Kate Brown]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2011, Nick Odell wrote

Thank you Nick, I shall actually print this out!

[Marjorie]

On 05/12/2011 17:01, Derek Turner wrote:
> On Mon, 05 Dec 2011 16:05:26 +0000, Marjorie wrote:
>
>> I don't think it could be this, as it was a long document with many
>> pages, and it happened in an instant, while he was typing.
>
> Easy: type Ctrl-A in mistake for Shift-A. Then hit the Back-Space or
> Delete key. Ctel is right next to Shift on both sides of the keyboard.
> This 'bug' is known as a PEBKAC.
>
>
>

I think this is what's happened. Our local computer guy has been to see
if he can help. He can't recover what's lost, but he did explain that it
was probably what you suggest. It would be easily done if you're typing
"a" with a space before or after it and you accidentally lean on the
Ctrl (or as you say in mistake for Shift) and then hit the spacebar or
delete. Of course, simply clicking "Undo" would have undone it, but it's
too late now. A lesson has been learned.

[a l l y]

"Sebastian Lisken" <lis...@math.Uni-Bielefeld-deletethis.de> wrote in
message news:9k58fd...@mid.dfncis.de...

Don't know much about Word, to thell the truth. I only have a copy so that I
can read things that other people send me. So "Auto Recovery" means nothing
to me, and could well be a competitor for the AA or the RAC for all I know.
But very regular backups have saved my sanity several times, when using
other software.

ally

[Kate Brown]

On Tue, 6 Dec 2011, a l l y wrote

Ditto, though I have also mistyped [Control] [S] as [Control] [A],
leading to mass deletion as above and other hilarious consequences.

[Anne Burgess]

>> I'm sure someone competent will come along shortly but in the
>> meantime, my advice - and please don't run away before I've
>> explained
>> it - would be:
>>
>> Use Linux.
>
> I should've known someone would say that.

It was inevitable.

It is undoubtedly good and worthy advice for future action, but
it is as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the case in hand.
Really Useful and Helpful. Not.

It's also the reason I will never ask UMRA for help or advice on
any computer problems. The answer is always the same, so there
is no point asking the question in the first place. I've learned
that lesson too.

Anne B

[Jo Lonergan]

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:29:30 -0000, "Anne Burgess"
<anne.a...@btinternet.com> wrote:

>>> I'm sure someone competent will come along shortly but in the
>>> meantime, my advice - and please don't run away before I've
>>> explained
>>> it - would be:
>>>
>>> Use Linux.
>>
>> I should've known someone would say that.
>
>It was inevitable.
>
>It is undoubtedly good and worthy advice for future action, but
>it is as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the case in hand.
>Really Useful and Helpful. Not.
>

That's why I didn't advise learning to touch type, since if you're looking at
the screen as you type, rather than at the keyboard, you tend to see if the
whole document is suddenly highlighted, and suspect something not intended is
going on.

This from the person who went into the office on a Sunday in an emergency, spent
hours on a document, and then turned off the computer without saving it. Having
turned off the regular Word saves, as they were slowing things down :(

Luckily I had printed it out and was able to nip off to Australia leaving the
typing pool to try out their new OCR software on it :)

>It's also the reason I will never ask UMRA for help or advice on
>any computer problems. The answer is always the same, so there
>is no point asking the question in the first place. I've learned
>that lesson too.
>

But, but, this week has been full of helpful advice about quite disparate
computer problems. And Nick did give cogent reasons, unlike those who say that
Linux is the answer to any problem or Macs are just better.

--
Jo

[Nick Odell]

Actually, it's not _Linux_ that is the answer to the problem: it's the
fact of having a non-windows operating system functioning completely
independent of the hard drive yet able to access the hard drive when
you want it to. It just happens that nipping round to your local
newsagent and picking the latest Linux magazine off the shelf is
probably a darn sight easier than any other way of achieving the same
end.

Nick

[Sebastian Lisken]

Previously on UMRA:

> >> Use Linux.
> >
> > I should've known someone would say that.

"Anne Burgess" <anne.a...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> It is undoubtedly good and worthy advice for future action, but
> it is as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the case in hand.
> Really Useful and Helpful. Not.
>
> It's also the reason I will never ask UMRA for help or advice on
> any computer problems. The answer is always the same

I follow most "ask for computer advice" threads here and contribute
to them if I can. And I can assure you Anne, you have got quite the
wrong picture about computer advice on UMRA in general, or about
this thread, or indeed about this particular Linux recommendation
from Nick - which is quite different to the kind of "use Linux"
posts you are digging up from memory. And digging these up, I think,
is also quite a misrepresentation - because this is mainly a very
distant memory of postings mostly written by Derek, who has made a
remarkable change of tone since and given Windows advice too.

Sebastian

[Anne Burgess]

> I follow most "ask for computer advice" threads here and
> contribute
> to them if I can. And I can assure you Anne, you have got
> quite the
> wrong picture about computer advice on UMRA in general, or
> about
> this thread, or indeed about this particular Linux
> recommendation
> from Nick - which is quite different to the kind of "use
> Linux"
> posts you are digging up from memory. And digging these up, I
> think,
> is also quite a misrepresentation - because this is mainly a
> very
> distant memory of postings mostly written by Derek, who has
> made a
> remarkable change of tone since and given Windows advice too.
> Sebastian

You are undoubtedly right, Sebastian. I have not looked at any
of
the threads asking for computer advice recently for the reasons
stated.

Quite apart from the tedium of the repetition of 'use Linux'
like the chorus croaking from the wings in a Greek tragedy
regardless of what the actual question was, it isn't helpful to
tell people how they could have avoided a particular situation
arising when what they want to know is how to resolve it once it
has happened.

It's like telling people they should have bolted the stable door
when
what they want is help to find the horse, really. Very helpful,
and undoubtedly said with the very best of intentions, but not
really what is actually needed.

Anne B

[Nick Leverton]

In article <zbmdnUYsN93j0HjT...@bt.com>,

Anne Burgess <anne.a...@btinternet.com> wrote:
>> to them if I can. And I can assure you Anne, you have got
>> quite the
>> wrong picture about computer advice on UMRA in general, or
>> about
>> this thread, or indeed about this particular Linux
>> recommendation
>> from Nick - which is quite different to the kind of "use
>> Linux"
>> posts you are digging up from memory.

>Quite apart from the tedium of the repetition of 'use Linux'
>like the chorus croaking from the wings in a Greek tragedy
>regardless of what the actual question was, it isn't helpful to
>tell people how they could have avoided a particular situation
>arising when what they want to know is how to resolve it once it
>has happened.

But this is exactly what a non-Windows recovery disc could have done.

The text was almost certainly still in the swapfile and could have
been recovered from there. Fragments of it might still be, and might
be recoverable using Linux, or BSD, or Minix, or any operating system
that lets you boot from a live CD, as t'other Nick suggested.

Nick
--
Serendipity: http://www.leverton.org/blosxom (last update 29th March 2010)
"The Internet, a sort of ersatz counterfeit of real life"
-- Janet Street-Porter, BBC2, 19th March 1996

[Dr Nick]

"Anne Burgess" <anne.a...@btinternet.com> writes:

>>> I'm sure someone competent will come along shortly but in the
>>> meantime, my advice - and please don't run away before I've
>>> explained
>>> it - would be:
>>>
>>> Use Linux.
>>
>> I should've known someone would say that.
>
> It was inevitable.
>
> It is undoubtedly good and worthy advice for future action, but
> it is as much use as a chocolate fireguard in the case in hand.
> Really Useful and Helpful. Not.

Quite the reverse. See below.

> It's also the reason I will never ask UMRA for help or advice on
> any computer problems. The answer is always the same, so there
> is no point asking the question in the first place. I've learned
> that lesson too.

No it's not.

But this /wasn't/ stop using Windows and start using Linux.

It was - and the bit that was snipped but the lead-in to remains says
this - use a Linux CD to get directly at your hard disk.

In other words, it was no more a "use Linux" response in the traditional
sense than a "use a MegaSuperDiskRecoveryForWindows" response would be
if MSDRFW was something you put in your computer, booted it, and looked
for the data on the disk with.

It was a really, really, useful response that offered just about the
only hope of finding the data on the disk and I think people are doing a
huge disservice to whoever it was (for some reason all the attribution
lines have gone walkies) who took the trouble to explain just how it
could be done to dismiss it in this way.

Umra has innumerable threads where lots of people go to great lengths
explaining how to fix things. I might be sitting there thinking "this
wouldn't happen if they used Linux", and I might not be the only one.
But you really are giving a slap in the face to a lot of people who go
way out of their way to help others.

Rant over.
--
Online waterways route planner | http://canalplan.eu
Plan trips, see photos, check facilities | http://canalplan.org.uk

[Sebastian Lisken]

"Anne Burgess" <anne.a...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> You are undoubtedly right, Sebastian. I have not looked at any of
> the threads asking for computer advice recently for the reasons stated.
>
> Quite apart from the tedium of the repetition of 'use Linux' like the
> chorus croaking from the wings in a Greek tragedy regardless of what
> the actual question was,

Well, this is getting ridiculous. You say that you haven't looked at
the threads, you don't seem to have understood what Nick meant when he
said "use Linux" in this thread (proving that you have given this one
a very superficial glance at best) - yet you still think you can make
judgemental statements on the contents. I suppose the only thing we -
the many people offering friendly computer advice on UMRA - can do
is concentrate on those that will read and appreciate it.

Sebastian

[Sebastian Lisken]

Dr Nick <3-no...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote:
> It was a really, really, useful response that offered just about the
> only hope of finding the data on the disk and I think people are doing a
> huge disservice to whoever it was (for some reason all the attribution
> lines have gone walkies) who took the trouble to explain just how it
> could be done to dismiss it in this way.

Just to clear the confusion, it was Nick Odell, the attribution had
been cut by Anne - not that that is a crime in itself. :-)

Sebastian

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <ns8ae7h4s6s2h1oi3...@4ax.com>, Nick Odell

<gurzhfvp...@ntlworld.com.invalid> writes:
>On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 22:05:57 +0100, Jo Lonergan
><jolon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 20:29:30 -0000, "Anne Burgess"
>><anne.a...@btinternet.com> wrote:

[]

>>>It's also the reason I will never ask UMRA for help or advice on
>>>any computer problems. The answer is always the same, so there
>>>is no point asking the question in the first place. I've learned
>>>that lesson too.

There are plenty of us here who will offer helpful advice that does
_not_ involve Linux.
[]

>Actually, it's not _Linux_ that is the answer to the problem: it's the
>fact of having a non-windows operating system functioning completely
>independent of the hard drive yet able to access the hard drive when
>you want it to. It just happens that nipping round to your local
>newsagent and picking the latest Linux magazine off the shelf is
>probably a darn sight easier than any other way of achieving the same
>end.
>
>Nick

Yes. A similar result might be achievable by connecting the hard disc to
another computer (Windows, Linux, or even something else, as long as it
can read the Windows disc); the Linux-boot suggestion was just probably
the easiest, if you aren't comfortable with removing hard discs, or have
only access to the computer in question.

I hadn't thought of the possibility of it still - or fragments of it -
being in the swap file, though I suspect without a fair bit of knowledge
such fragments would be hard to use - though if just the text would be
better than nothing, they would give that.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Live Faust, die Jung.

[Marjorie]

That's OK, Nick, I did understand that it wasn't the usual Linux reply
along the lines of "Well if you had used Linux in the first place...". I
do appreciate what you're saying. It was, however, beyond my competence
and resources to act on it.

Anyway, FWIW the work has now been re-done and is safely stored along
with a back-up of the document.

[Kate Brown]

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011, Anne Burgess wrote

What's bitten you, Anne? What Marjorie actually asked was this:

>We're using Win Vista and Word 2007. Can anyone suggest anything else I
>can try (not too techie, please, I'm floundering here!) We'd also be
>interested to know how the deletion of many pages of work could have
>happened accidentally in this way.

And that's what lots of us tried to answer. Indeed, even Derek the Linux
God merely suggested what the fatal keystrokes might have been. Nick
Odell's suggestion was so extremely useful and non-techy friendly I have
printed it out for use in a real emergency, and I have no intention of
abandoning Windows.

[the Omrud]

I say, steady on. I answer quite a lot of these technical queries; I
have never, and will never, suggest that people switch operating systems.

--
David

[EllTee]

In article <9klq55...@mid.dfncis.de>,

Ooooh yes please sir! I am always quoting: "umra says" on a variety of
techy questions (not just IT ones) and husbad and I find the collective
knowledge very useful. Often not directly because we may not have the
same issue but certainly indirectly very often. Keep up the good work
people :-)
--
Btms

[Nick Odell]

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 09:24:36 +0000, Kate Brown
<elv...@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>And that's what lots of us tried to answer. Indeed, even Derek the Linux
>God merely suggested what the fatal keystrokes might have been. Nick
>Odell's suggestion was so extremely useful and non-techy friendly I have
>printed it out for use in a real emergency, and I have no intention of
>abandoning Windows.

I thought that, like; '...but their second album was rubbish' and
'..that's extra, luv,' the expression 'Use Linux' was well enough
established on umra to use as a catchphrase. Obviously I was wrong.

In which case I think I ought to steer umrats of a sensitive
disposition away from uk.d-i-y where a cry of 'Angle Grinder!' may be
offered as a solution to ANY problem - including ones where the answer
actually is an angle grinder. This has been an umra public service
announcement - or am I not allowed that catch-phrase either?

Nick

[the Omrud]

When Daughter was a toddler, she knew that her drawings could be mended
with Sellotape. My car had a faulty fuel pump which I had to replace
(that sort of thing was fairly easy for DIY in those days). On hearing
that Daddy's car was broken, she suggested that I should mend it with
Sellotape. This has been our first suggestion to any mechanical failure
in our house ever since.

--
David

[Chris J Dixon]

Nick Odell wrote:

>I thought that, like; '...but their second album was rubbish' and
>'..that's extra, luv,' the expression 'Use Linux' was well enough
>established on umra to use as a catchphrase. Obviously I was wrong.
>
>In which case I think I ought to steer umrats of a sensitive
>disposition away from uk.d-i-y where a cry of 'Angle Grinder!' may be
>offered as a solution to ANY problem - including ones where the answer
>actually is an angle grinder. This has been an umra public service
>announcement - or am I not allowed that catch-phrase either?
>

I have to say that I too was thinking of the angle-grinder reflex
response.

At least in umra there is no exposure to spirited expositions on
the iniquities of the Saniflo. (1)

(1)The curious can get some insight at:

http://www.diyfaq.org.uk/humour.html

and the saga of the expanding foam is certainly a lesson for the
unwary.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/31 M B+ G+ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar+ T+ H0 ?Q
ch...@cdixon.me.uk
Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

[Anne Burgess]

I apologise unreservedly to all those who have made helpful
suggestions for resolving Marjorie's problem. I got it wrong.

Anne B

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <phmFq.65139$E17....@newsfe22.ams2>, the Omrud

<usenet...@gmail.com> writes:
>On 12/12/2011 12:00, Nick Odell wrote:

[]

>> I thought that, like; '...but their second album was rubbish' and
>> '..that's extra, luv,' the expression 'Use Linux' was well enough
>> established on umra to use as a catchphrase. Obviously I was wrong.

[]

>When Daughter was a toddler, she knew that her drawings could be mended
>with Sellotape. My car had a faulty fuel pump which I had to replace
>(that sort of thing was fairly easy for DIY in those days). On hearing
>that Daddy's car was broken, she suggested that I should mend it with
>Sellotape. This has been our first suggestion to any mechanical
>failure in our house ever since.
>

And, with the substitution of "duct tape" (or, as the Americans
sometimes have it "Duck tape" [they're not being higgnorant - I think
Duck is a brand of the stuff over there]), it can often be a valid
answer! (There's a set of pictures - called something like "I fixed it"
- that gets emailed round from time to time, which includes various
amazing things held together with duct tape, some more believable than
others.)

[Why it's called "duct tape" I'm not sure; I think that itself is of US
origin, and is because something we call something else is called a duct
over there.]

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

If you are afraid of being lonely, don't try to be right. - Jules Renard,
writer (1864-1910)

[Ralph B]

On Dec 12, 4:04 pm, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"
<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> In message <phmFq.65139$E17.44...@newsfe22.ams2>, the Omrud<usenet.om...@gmail.com> writes:
> >On 12/12/2011 12:00, Nick Odell wrote:
> []
> >> I thought that, like; '...but their second album was rubbish' and
> >> '..that's extra, luv,' the expression 'Use Linux' was well enough
> >> established on umra to use as a catchphrase. Obviously I was wrong.
> []
> >When Daughter was a toddler, she knew that her drawings could be mended
> >with Sellotape.  My car had a faulty fuel pump which I had to replace
> >(that sort of thing was fairly easy for DIY in those days).  On hearing
> >that Daddy's car was broken, she suggested that I should mend it with
> >Sellotape.  This has been our first suggestion to any mechanical
> >failure in our house ever since.

The three laws of American Engineering: 1. Always use the right tool
for the job. 2. A hammer is the right tool for any job. 3. Anything
can be used as a hammer.

[Kate Brown]

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote

>In message <phmFq.65139$E17....@newsfe22.ams2>, the Omrud
><usenet...@gmail.com> writes:
>>On 12/12/2011 12:00, Nick Odell wrote:
>[]
>>> I thought that, like; '...but their second album was rubbish' and
>>> '..that's extra, luv,' the expression 'Use Linux' was well enough
>>> established on umra to use as a catchphrase. Obviously I was wrong.
>[]
>>When Daughter was a toddler, she knew that her drawings could be
>>mended with Sellotape. My car had a faulty fuel pump which I had to
>>replace (that sort of thing was fairly easy for DIY in those days).
>>On hearing that Daddy's car was broken, she suggested that I should
>>mend it with Sellotape. This has been our first suggestion to any
>>mechanical failure in our house ever since.
>>
>And, with the substitution of "duct tape" (or, as the Americans
>sometimes have it "Duck tape" [they're not being higgnorant - I think
>Duck is a brand of the stuff over there]), it can often be a valid
>answer! (There's a set of pictures - called something like "I fixed it"
>- that gets emailed round from time to time, which includes various
>amazing things held together with duct tape, some more believable than
>others.)
>
>[Why it's called "duct tape" I'm not sure; I think that itself is of US
>origin, and is because something we call something else is called a
>duct over there.]

Gaffer tape is what we use, us theatrical types. You'd be amazed how
much scenery is held up solely with well-placed swathes of the stuff.

[Steve Hague]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> In message <phmFq.65139$E17....@newsfe22.ams2>, the Omrud
> <usenet...@gmail.com> writes:
>> On 12/12/2011 12:00, Nick Odell wrote:
> []
>>> I thought that, like; '...but their second album was rubbish' and
>>> '..that's extra, luv,' the expression 'Use Linux' was well enough
>>> established on umra to use as a catchphrase. Obviously I was wrong.
> []
>> When Daughter was a toddler, she knew that her drawings could be
>> mended with Sellotape. My car had a faulty fuel pump which I had to
>> replace (that sort of thing was fairly easy for DIY in those days). On
>> hearing that Daddy's car was broken, she suggested that I should
>> mend it with Sellotape. This has been our first suggestion to any
>> mechanical failure in our house ever since.
>>
> And, with the substitution of "duct tape" (or, as the Americans
> sometimes have it "Duck tape" [they're not being higgnorant - I think
> Duck is a brand of the stuff over there]), it can often be a valid
> answer! (There's a set of pictures - called something like "I fixed
> it" - that gets emailed round from time to time, which includes
> various amazing things held together with duct tape, some more
> believable than others.)
>
> [Why it's called "duct tape" I'm not sure; I think that itself is of
> US origin, and is because something we call something else is called
> a duct over there.]

I know it as gaffer tape. It's the only thing in the world more useful than
WD-40.
Steve

[Sebastian Lisken]

"Anne Burgess" <anne.a...@btinternet.com> wrote:
> I apologise unreservedly to all those who have made helpful
> suggestions for resolving Marjorie's problem. I got it wrong.

Thanks for that - and maybe I shouldn't have confronted you as directly
as I did, given that I thought it so obvious that you had got it wrong
and that we all can have such moments from time to time. :-)

Sebastian

[Rosalind Mitchell]

Nick Odell wrote:

> In which case I think I ought to steer umrats of a sensitive
> disposition away from uk.d-i-y where a cry of 'Angle Grinder!' may be
> offered as a solution to ANY problem - including ones where the answer
> actually is an angle grinder.

What? Not 'WD40!' (for things that stick and shouldn't) or "gaffer tape!" (
for things that shouldn't stick and do)? I thought those two covered all
conceivable problems.

Roskg

--
Mój poduszkowiec jest pełen węgorzy
Currently reading Headlong by Michael Frayn

[Rosalind Mitchell]

Rosalind Mitchell wrote:

> Nick Odell wrote:
>
>> In which case I think I ought to steer umrats of a sensitive
>> disposition away from uk.d-i-y where a cry of 'Angle Grinder!' may be
>> offered as a solution to ANY problem - including ones where the answer
>> actually is an angle grinder.
>
> What? Not 'WD40!' (for things that stick and shouldn't) or "gaffer tape!"
> (
> for things that shouldn't stick and do)? I thought those two covered all
> conceivable problems.

That should read ... or 'gaffer tape!' (for things that should stick and
don't).

It's been a long and exceptionally muddy day.

[Plusnet]

In article <Tuz+Wocp...@nospam.demon.co.uk>,
elv...@nospam.demon.co.uk says...

Isn't the agricultural equivalent Bailer Twine?

--
Sam

[Jack Campin]

> Why it's called "duct tape" I'm not sure; I think that itself is of
> US origin, and is because something we call something else is called
> a duct over there.

They're called ducts everywhere in the English-speaking world, as
far as I know. Big tubes used to pass air through in heating or air
conditioning systems.

I once had a summer job duct-taping when I was a student. A big new
hospital building had been put up with what was described as the
most advanced air conditioning system in the Southern Hemisphere
(a heck of a lot of things in NZ were labelled as "the most ... in
the Southern Hemisphere"). Unfortunately there was a teensy weensy
problemette with it, in that every single duct had two seams along
the top which leaked. So all ten floors of it needed to have them
sealed with tape. This was before the invention of pre-glued duct
tape, so I had to stand up on a wheeled scaffold with my head inches
from the ceiling and go round every single duct applying two lines
of ADOS solvent-based glue with a brush and then unrolling tape along
it. After 8 hours of paid glue-sniffing I was in a fairly strange
state by knocking-off time.

For a change, when that was done I got to breathe paint fumes while
painting the steel pipework.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Nick Leverton]

In article <jc58l3$jel$1...@dont-email.me>,

Definitely up there with angle grinders ...

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <bogus-ED560C....@four.schnuerpel.eu>, Jack Campin

<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> writes:
>> Why it's called "duct tape" I'm not sure; I think that itself is of
>> US origin, and is because something we call something else is called
>> a duct over there.
>
>They're called ducts everywhere in the English-speaking world, as
>far as I know. Big tubes used to pass air through in heating or air
>conditioning systems.
>
>I once had a summer job duct-taping when I was a student. A big new

[]

>it. After 8 hours of paid glue-sniffing I was in a fairly strange
>state by knocking-off time.
>
>For a change, when that was done I got to breathe paint fumes while
>painting the steel pipework.

Ah, now I - sort of - see why it's called duct tape. Or, at least, that
sounds like a potential explanation, _if_ that was its original purpose.

>
>-----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>e m a i l : j a c k @ c a m p i n . m e . u k
>Jack Campin, 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland
>mobile 07800 739 557 <http://www.campin.me.uk> Twitter: JackCampin

[Flop]

Son's theory is far more complex:

If it moves and shouldn't - use duct tape.

.

.

If it doesn't move and should - use WD40.

.

I have several impractical applications for this - but my wife disagrees
with most of them. Especially the last one.

Flop

[Plusnet]

In article <jc5pq9$oej$1...@leverton.org>, ni...@leverton.org says...

>
> In article <jc58l3$jel$1...@dont-email.me>,
> Steve Hague <steve....@virgin.net> wrote:
> >J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> >>
> >> [Why it's called "duct tape" I'm not sure; I think that itself is of
> >> US origin, and is because something we call something else is called
> >> a duct over there.]
> >
> >I know it as gaffer tape. It's the only thing in the world more useful than
> >WD-40.
>
> Definitely up there with angle grinders ...
>

From a H&S POV, using an angle grinder up a ladder sounds rather dodgy.

--
Sam

[Dr Nick]

Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> writes:

> Nick Odell wrote:
>
>>I thought that, like; '...but their second album was rubbish' and
>>'..that's extra, luv,' the expression 'Use Linux' was well enough
>>established on umra to use as a catchphrase. Obviously I was wrong.
>>
>>In which case I think I ought to steer umrats of a sensitive
>>disposition away from uk.d-i-y where a cry of 'Angle Grinder!' may be
>>offered as a solution to ANY problem - including ones where the answer
>>actually is an angle grinder. This has been an umra public service
>>announcement - or am I not allowed that catch-phrase either?
>>
> I have to say that I too was thinking of the angle-grinder reflex
> response.
>
> At least in umra there is no exposure to spirited expositions on
> the iniquities of the Saniflo. (1)

Indeed. If you add uk.rec.waterways it appears that umra is about the
only group that doesn't revert to discussing toilets at regular
intervals.

[Jo Lonergan]

On Mon, 12 Dec 2011 15:59:37 +0000, Kate Brown <elv...@nospam.demon.co.uk>
wrote:

>Gaffer tape is what we use, us theatrical types. You'd be amazed how
>much scenery is held up solely with well-placed swathes of the stuff.

I don't suppose that has anything to do with gaffer=chief electrician? Or is
that only in the cinema?

--
Jo

[K Richard Whitbread]

Dr Nick <3-no...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote

>Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> writes:
>
>> Nick Odell wrote:
>>
>>>I thought that, like; '...but their second album was rubbish' and
>>>'..that's extra, luv,' the expression 'Use Linux' was well enough
>>>established on umra to use as a catchphrase. Obviously I was wrong.
>>>
>>>In which case I think I ought to steer umrats of a sensitive
>>>disposition away from uk.d-i-y where a cry of 'Angle Grinder!' may be
>>>offered as a solution to ANY problem - including ones where the answer
>>>actually is an angle grinder. This has been an umra public service
>>>announcement - or am I not allowed that catch-phrase either?
>>>
>> I have to say that I too was thinking of the angle-grinder reflex
>> response.
>>
>> At least in umra there is no exposure to spirited expositions on
>> the iniquities of the Saniflo. (1)
>
>Indeed. If you add uk.rec.waterways it appears that umra is about the
>only group that doesn't revert to discussing toilets at regular
>intervals.

But no-one in TA ever uses a toilet (nor in Dr Who) so they would OT if
we discussed them.
--
Kosmo Richard W
SNELLSS

[Nick Leverton]

In article <LK0gf9Aw...@local.machine>,

In other words, On Toilet = Off Topic ?

[Rosalind Mitchell]

K Richard Whitbread wrote:

> But no-one in TA ever uses a toilet (nor in Dr Who) so they would OT if
> we discussed them.

Mr Pullen does, or did. Is he still with us? He must have had his 100th by
now. Has any Ambrigian ever had the regal telegram?

Roskg


--
Mój poduszkowiec jest pełen węgorzy

Currently reading The Mission Song by John le Carré

[Dr Nick]

I've just read a book in which two people spent alternate 24 hour shifts
in barrel.

At no time where toilet facilities mentioned. Nor, for that matter, did
anyone say "it's your turn in the barrel". Still enjoying it though and
still can't work out what the swapping of the number plates was about,
despite being 80% of the way through.

[BrritSki]

On 12/12/2011 23:11, Flop wrote:
> On 12/12/2011 12:17, the Omrud wrote:
>> On 12/12/2011 12:00, Nick Odell wrote:
>
>>
>> When Daughter was a toddler, she knew that her drawings could be mended
>> with Sellotape. My car had a faulty fuel pump which I had to replace
>> (that sort of thing was fairly easy for DIY in those days). On hearing
>> that Daddy's car was broken, she suggested that I should mend it with
>> Sellotape. This has been our first suggestion to any mechanical failure
>> in our house ever since.
>>
>
> Son's theory is far more complex:
>
> If it moves and shouldn't - use duct tape.
>
> ..
>

> ..

>
> If it doesn't move and should - use WD40.
>

> ..

>
> I have several impractical applications for this - but my wife disagrees
> with most of them. Especially the last one.
>

I would suggest that if your wife doesn't move it's probably down to
technique and WD40 won't help.











Apologies in advance if this was over the mark...

[Kate Brown]

On Wed, 14 Dec 2011, BrritSki wrote

Not at all. Vintage Brittski. Thanks for a much-needed laugh.

[Robin Fairbairns]

K Richard Whitbread <richard....@tesco.net> writes:

> Dr Nick <3-no...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote
>

>>Indeed. If you add uk.rec.waterways it appears that umra is about the
>>only group that doesn't revert to discussing toilets at regular
>>intervals.
>
> But no-one in TA ever uses a toilet (nor in Dr Who) so they would OT
> if we discussed them.

didn't mr pullen regularly disrupt things by his need for toilets?

haven't heard about him for ages (he's probably so old even the beetle
can't think of anything unusually ghastly to happen to him).
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
my address is @cl.cam.ac.uk, regardless of the header. sorry about that.

[Marjorie]

For a long time my husband and I used to fill Xmas stockings for each
other. He sometimes used to put WD40 in mine, and I'd read the label
saying things like "lubricates squeaky mechanisms... extricates stuck
screws ...penetrates crevices..." causing me to remark that this wasn't
really the kind of Christmas gift I'd hoped for. Or just to hit him with
the can.


--
Marjorie

To reply, replace dontusethisaddress with marje

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <josee79fqpslipidb...@4ax.com>, Jo Lonergan

Clever! Gaffer just means the boss, local (i. e. foreman etc.) or
company, in a lot of places (especially in the north), but the
electrical connection might be the reason it is applied to tape, which
I'd often wondered about. [Since I couldn't see any particular reason
why a boss might use it, nor any reason why it might be used for
gaffing, if such a thing exists.]

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <doxfZ2wE...@nospam.demon.co.uk>, Kate Brown

<elv...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>On Wed, 14 Dec 2011, BrritSki wrote
>>On 12/12/2011 23:11, Flop wrote:

[]

>>> Son's theory is far more complex:
>>>
>>> If it moves and shouldn't - use duct tape.

[]

>>> If it doesn't move and should - use WD40.
>>>

Hmm. Variation on the old squaddies' one "if it moves, salute it; if it
doesn't, paint it", and the Mum one (possibly Delia, though I think it
predates even TBD) "if it moves, feed it, if it doesn't, clean/dust it".

>>> ..
>>>
>>> I have several impractical applications for this - but my wife disagrees
>>> with most of them. Especially the last one.
>>>
>>I would suggest that if your wife doesn't move it's probably down to
>>technique and WD40 won't help.
[]
>>Apologies in advance if this was over the mark...
>
>Not at all. Vintage Brittski. Thanks for a much-needed laugh.
>

Seconded! (Stuck at home due to a lack of sparks; I really hope they've
fixed my car this afternoon #, as getting to work by public transport
[TN27 0DD to ME1 2XX] involves getting up at the crack of dawn and
travelling for 2 hours each way.) I needed the laugh, and got it.

Serendipity or what? At "#", the 'phone rang - to say it's fixed! Now
off for a (cold!) half hour walk to get it back!

[Axlegrease]

"K Richard Whitbread" <richard....@tesco.net> wrote in message
news:LK0gf9Aw...@local.machine...

>>



> But no-one in TA ever uses a toilet (nor in Dr Who) so they would OT if we
> discussed them.
> --

But Jill Archer did, once! Can't remember why - there was a lunch party in
a restaurant and it was necessary to the storyline that she met someone else
coming out as she was going in..... or something.

Don't worry, I'm off now to get a life.

AG

[Jack Campin]

>>> Gaffer tape is what we use, us theatrical types. You'd be amazed how
>>> much scenery is held up solely with well-placed swathes of the stuff.
>> I don't suppose that has anything to do with gaffer=chief electrician?
>> Or is that only in the cinema?
> Clever! Gaffer just means the boss, local (i. e. foreman etc.) or
> company, in a lot of places (especially in the north), but the
> electrical connection might be the reason it is applied to tape,
> which I'd often wondered about.

Wikipedia agrees with the cinema explanation:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape

It's not the same as duct tape.

[Christine McMillan]

On 13/12/2011 23:29, Nick Leverton wrote:
> In article<LK0gf9Aw...@local.machine>,
> K Richard Whitbread<richard....@tesco.net> wrote:
>> Dr Nick<3-no...@temporary-address.org.uk> wrote
>>> Chris J Dixon<ch...@cdixon.me.uk> writes:
>>>>
>>>> At least in umra there is no exposure to spirited expositions on
>>>> the iniquities of the Saniflo. (1)
>>>
>>> Indeed. If you add uk.rec.waterways it appears that umra is about the
>>> only group that doesn't revert to discussing toilets at regular
>>> intervals.
>>
>> But no-one in TA ever uses a toilet (nor in Dr Who) so they would OT if
>> we discussed them.
>

Only in The Bull. But we have had a few plot lines involving shenanigans
in the toilets.

Sincerely Chris

[Christine McMillan]

On 14/12/2011 06:32, Rosalind Mitchell wrote:
> K Richard Whitbread wrote:
>
>> But no-one in TA ever uses a toilet (nor in Dr Who) so they would OT if
>> we discussed them.
>
> Mr Pullen does, or did. Is he still with us? He must have had his 100th by
> now. Has any Ambrigian ever had the regal telegram?
>

Reckon they're going to let Mr Pullen get there - he's never spoken so
no fees involved.

Sincerely Chris

> Roskg
>
>

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <bogus-890A74....@four.schnuerpel.eu>, Jack Campin

<bo...@purr.demon.co.uk> writes:
>>>> Gaffer tape is what we use, us theatrical types. You'd be amazed how
>>>> much scenery is held up solely with well-placed swathes of the stuff.
>>> I don't suppose that has anything to do with gaffer=chief electrician?
>>> Or is that only in the cinema?
>> Clever! Gaffer just means the boss, local (i. e. foreman etc.) or
>> company, in a lot of places (especially in the north), but the
>> electrical connection might be the reason it is applied to tape,
>> which I'd often wondered about.
>
>Wikipedia agrees with the cinema explanation:
>
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gaffer_tape
>
>It's not the same as duct tape.

[]
Thanks for wasting a satisfying few minutes! That also links to an
article, of course, on duct tape, from which I learn:

1. What is normally referred to as duct tape should not be used for
repairing ducts (!).
2. That bit about "if it moves ..." and involving WD-40 comes from a
1995 book (see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duct_tape#In_popular_culture), or of course
earlier.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

`A device called a transistor, which has several applications in radio where a
vacuum tube ordinarily is employed, was demonstrated yesterday.' - small article
on an inside page of The New York Times, December 1947 (Computing 1999-12-16)

[Nick Leverton]

In article <jcaiq1$hbc$1...@dont-email.me>,

It's amazing what you can buy in supermarkets these days.

[Christine McMillan]

When the siblings were trying to take her to a secret lunch somewhere
and she and St S went into the ladies and met one of the grandchildren
in there who had to pretend it was a surprise. or summat like that.

Jill's 80th IIRC.

Sincerely Chris

[Axlegrease]

"Christine McMillan" <chris.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:Nh7Gq.166385$uS.1...@newsfe19.ams2...

When the siblings were trying to take her to a secret lunch somewhere
> and she and St S went into the ladies and met one of the grandchildren in
> there who had to pretend it was a surprise. or summat like that.
>
> Jill's 80th IIRC.
>

That's the incident I was thinking of; thanks for reminding me, Chris.

There was also, of course, the occasion when Lizzie was eloping with
Umbrella, the Bad Lot boyfriend. They stopped at a motorway services
somewhere and, while she went to the Ladies', he did a runner, leaving her
pregnant and stranded.

AG

[Plusnet]

In article <Yup2GdMy...@soft255.demon.co.uk>,
G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk says...

> Seconded! (Stuck at home due to a lack of sparks; I really hope they've
> fixed my car this afternoon #, as getting to work by public transport
> [TN27 0DD to ME1 2XX] involves getting up at the crack of dawn and
> travelling for 2 hours each way.) I needed the laugh, and got it.
>
> Serendipity or what? At "#", the 'phone rang - to say it's fixed! Now
> off for a (cold!) half hour walk to get it back!
>
>

I do hope you don't have the same experience as my wofe one year.

MOT due & we only have the one car. Wofe gets up at an unearthly hour
(for her) & drives me to work.

Returns to the village in order to drop car at garage, long walk home in
torrential rain.
Waits several hours, rings garage to enquire "Yes Mrs PlusNet it's all
done."
Second long walk in even heavier rain.
"Oh _that_ car! No sorry, thought you meant this one."

When Mrs Plusnet finally collected me from work she _may_ have mentioned
her displeasure.

--
Sam

[Serena Blanchflower]

* Axlegrease wrote, On 14/12/2011 16:27:
> "K Richard Whitbread"<richard....@tesco.net> wrote in message
> news:LK0gf9Aw...@local.machine...
>>>
>
>
>
>> But no-one in TA ever uses a toilet (nor in Dr Who) so they would OT if we
>> discussed them.
>> --
>
>
> But Jill Archer did, once! Can't remember why - there was a lunch party in
> a restaurant and it was necessary to the storyline that she met someone else
> coming out as she was going in..... or something.

As did Pat Archer, after John died, when she was in bed with
depression and a visitor[1] arrived wanting to cheer her up, causing
her to rush to hide in the loo.

> Don't worry, I'm off now to get a life.

Do let me know if you find anywhere that has some in stock. I could
do with one too.


[1] IIRC, it was Shula, wanting to give good advice from her own
brush with depression following her ectopic pregnancy[2].

[2] It just occurred to me - has anyone on TA managed to have a
miscarriage (I'm counting the ectopic as a form of miscarriage)
without one partner having an affair as part of their way of coping?
Mark had a brief affair with a barrister in Birmingham after he and
Shula lost their baby and Siobhan fell into Brian's arms looking for
comfort after her miscarriage.

I can't think of anyone else in Ambridge who's lost a baby, let alone
anyone who has lost one and then fallen into their partner's arms
looking for solace.


--
Cheers, Serena
If there's night - there must be day, if a tear, a smile, where
there's hardship - surely there's also a God. (Jan Twardowski)

[EllTee]

In article <jcb25e$lmh$1...@dont-email.me>,

Oh yes - the Scotsman - was his name Frazer or Cameron? What happened
to the baby - I can't recall. Enyrat?
--
Btms

[Plusnet]

In article <jcaiq1$hbc$1...@dont-email.me>, nell...@invalid.com says...

> Don't worry, I'm off now to get a life.
>
>

I had one of those.

I think it's out of warranty.

--
Sam

[Serena Blanchflower]

Cameron Fraser, IIRC.

> What happened
> to the baby - I can't recall. Enyrat?

Lizzie had an abortion - much to Shula's horror (she thought Lizzie
should have the baby and hand it over to her for adoption).

--
Cheers, Serena
The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity
(Dorothy Parker)

[EllTee]

In article <QIednRPFZspuknTT...@brightview.co.uk>,

Ah yes - thank yew.
--
Btms

[Axlegrease]

"Plusnet" <n...@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.29532017d...@news.plus.net...

>
>> Don't worry, I'm off now to get a life.
>>
>>
> I had one of those.
>
> I think it's out of warranty.
>

I found a re-conditioned one in a charity shop. It has a few dry joints but
is basically serviceable. ; )

AG

[K Richard Whitbread]

Axlegrease <nell...@invalid.com> wrote

Why and how did she ever escape from the service station?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <MPG.29531f35e...@news.plus.net>, Plusnet

<n...@home.com> writes:
>In article <Yup2GdMy...@soft255.demon.co.uk>,
>G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk says...
>> Seconded! (Stuck at home due to a lack of sparks; I really hope they've
>> fixed my car this afternoon #, as getting to work by public transport
>> [TN27 0DD to ME1 2XX] involves getting up at the crack of dawn and
>> travelling for 2 hours each way.) I needed the laugh, and got it.
>>
>> Serendipity or what? At "#", the 'phone rang - to say it's fixed! Now
>> off for a (cold!) half hour walk to get it back!
>>
>>
>I do hope you don't have the same experience as my wofe one year.

[]
>torrential rain.
[]

>When Mrs Plusnet finally collected me from work she _may_ have mentioned
>her displeasure.
>

No, fortunately it was the right one. The long walk was in sunshine,
though decidedly parky; I had a coat, but of course had left it in the
car ... Ho hum. Lots of money lighter. Wondering what's going to go
wrong next, and should I think about changing cars - but I hate doing
that (and this one _has_ been pretty reliable so far, apart from the
infuriating mysterious short about twice a year).

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <MPG.29532017d...@news.plus.net>, Plusnet

I had one, but the wheels fell off and it died.

[Chris J Dixon]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

>No, fortunately it was the right one. The long walk was in sunshine,
>though decidedly parky; I had a coat, but of course had left it in the
>car ... Ho hum. Lots of money lighter. Wondering what's going to go
>wrong next, and should I think about changing cars - but I hate doing
>that (and this one _has_ been pretty reliable so far, apart from the
>infuriating mysterious short about twice a year).

Until I changed my car earlier this year, the annual MOT
synchronised with Loughborough fair pull-on. This meant that I
could deliver the car (thus parking free), walk into town and
spend a few hours watching and snapping as the fair vehicles
threaded their way in, and fascinating construction commenced.

IKWYM about changing cars, my last three averaged 10 years use by
me, and only the first was new.

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/31 M B+ G+ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar+ T+ H0 ?Q
ch...@cdixon.me.uk
Have dancing shoes, will ceilidh.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <nb7je7d09rhgapg3d...@4ax.com>, Chris J Dixon

<ch...@cdixon.me.uk> writes:
>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]

>Until I changed my car earlier this year, the annual MOT
>synchronised with Loughborough fair pull-on. This meant that I
>could deliver the car (thus parking free), walk into town and
>spend a few hours watching and snapping as the fair vehicles
>threaded their way in, and fascinating construction commenced.

Oh, my MOT not too dissimilar - the garage is right opposite the
station, so I can leave the car and go to work by train and 'bus; not
_that_ inconvenient, though expensive. But only when the car will
actually go, to get me to the station!

>
>IKWYM about changing cars, my last three averaged 10 years use by
>me, and only the first was new.

[]
It's the hassle of choosing. (Never had a new one; apart from one at
1300 or 1600, I don't think I've paid over 1000 for any of them.)

[Serena Blanchflower]

Why, was because she had just told him she was pregnant. How, I can't
remember for certain but I think she probably phoned her father to
come and rescue her.

--
Cheers, Serena
Don't go around saying the world owes you a living. The world owes you
nothing. It was here first. (Mark Twain)

[Rosalind Mitchell]

J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

> In message <MPG.29532017d...@news.plus.net>, Plusnet
> <n...@home.com> writes:
>>In article <jcaiq1$hbc$1...@dont-email.me>, nell...@invalid.com says...
>>
>>> Don't worry, I'm off now to get a life.
>>>
>>>
>>I had one of those.
>>
>>I think it's out of warranty.
>>
> I had one, but the wheels fell off and it died.

Mine looked good when I got it but it turned out to be a couple of old
wrecks welded together.

Roskg


--
Mój poduszkowiec jest pełen węgorzy
Currently reading The Mission Song by John le Carré

[Jo Lonergan]

On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 07:23:04 +0000, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:

>J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
>>No, fortunately it was the right one. The long walk was in sunshine,
>>though decidedly parky; I had a coat, but of course had left it in the
>>car ... Ho hum. Lots of money lighter. Wondering what's going to go
>>wrong next, and should I think about changing cars - but I hate doing
>>that (and this one _has_ been pretty reliable so far, apart from the
>>infuriating mysterious short about twice a year).
>

<snip>

>IKWYM about changing cars, my last three averaged 10 years use by
>me, and only the first was new.
>

I've had three in 34 years, and intend to drive this one until it turns up its
toes and then not replace it.

--
Jo

[Ralph B]

OK, you lot are reminding me of:
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDGuPp1np4o
now.

[Robin Fairbairns]

Christine McMillan <chris.m...@ntlworld.com> writes:

> On 14/12/2011 16:27, Axlegrease wrote:

>> "K Richard Whitbread"<richard....@tesco.net> wrote...

>>
>>> But no-one in TA ever uses a toilet (nor in Dr Who) so they would OT if we
>>> discussed them.
>>

>> But Jill Archer did, once! Can't remember why - there was a lunch party in
>> a restaurant and it was necessary to the storyline that she met someone else
>> coming out as she was going in..... or something.
>>
>> Don't worry, I'm off now to get a life.
>
> When the siblings were trying to take her to a secret lunch somewhere
> and she and St S went into the ladies and met one of the grandchildren
> in there who had to pretend it was a surprise. or summat like that.
>
> Jill's 80th IIRC.

do you remember the other 79 iircs?

(indianapolis international racing circuit, perhaps?)
--
Robin Fairbairns, Cambridge
my address is @cl.cam.ac.uk, regardless of the header. sorry about that.

[Robin Fairbairns]

Serena Blanchflower <nos...@blanchflower.me.uk> writes:

> * K Richard Whitbread wrote, On 14/12/2011 23:41:
>> Axlegrease <nell...@invalid.com> wrote
>>

>>> There was also, of course, the occasion when Lizzie was eloping with
>>> Umbrella, the Bad Lot boyfriend. They stopped at a motorway services
>>> somewhere and, while she went to the Ladies', he did a runner,
>>> leaving her pregnant and stranded.
>>

>> Why and how did she ever escape from the service station?
>
> Why, was because she had just told him she was pregnant. How, I can't
> remember for certain but I think she probably phoned her father to
> come and rescue her.

we weren't told, iirc. i worked out a good technique ... she wanders
vaguely along the motorway (best to use the hard shoulder) and sooner or
later a police car comes and they treat her gently since she's obviously
a nutter. could probably swing a trip all the way home in a police car
that way.

[carolet]

Serena Blanchflower wrote:
> * K Richard Whitbread wrote, On 14/12/2011 23:41:
>> Axlegrease <nell...@invalid.com> wrote
>>>
>>> "Christine McMillan" <chris.m...@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Nh7Gq.166385$uS.1...@newsfe19.ams2...
>>>
>>> When the siblings were trying to take her to a secret lunch
>>> somewhere
>>>> and she and St S went into the ladies and met one of the
>>>> grandchildren in
>>>> there who had to pretend it was a surprise. or summat like that.
>>>>
>>>> Jill's 80th IIRC.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> That's the incident I was thinking of; thanks for reminding me,
>>> Chris. There was also, of course, the occasion when Lizzie was eloping
>>> with
>>> Umbrella, the Bad Lot boyfriend. They stopped at a motorway services
>>> somewhere and, while she went to the Ladies', he did a runner,
>>> leaving her
>>> pregnant and stranded.
>>>
>>> AG
>>>
>>>
>> Why and how did she ever escape from the service station?
>
>
> Why, was because she had just told him she was pregnant. How, I can't
> remember for certain but I think she probably phoned her father to
> come and rescue her.

When Elizabeth told Cameon Fraser that she was pregnant, his only response
was to say that he'd pay for an abortion. She was left in tears. Later he
said he'd support her is she wanted to keep the baby, but marriage was out.
Elizabeth clung on to the relationship, believing that underneath he really
cared for her. About this time his financial affairs began to go awry. He
leaned on Elizabeth for support, he admitted to her that he'd mishandled
some funds that he'd been investing for other people and they now wanted
their money back. He blamed some supposed friends who, he claimed, had given
him bad advised. Elizabeth believed this. He reaffirmed his love for her and
she agreed to go on a secret holiday with him. As the drove town the A40 in
his Jaguar, she chattered on about there love and their baby and their
future. That he didn't share this vision only became clear to her when they
stopped at a service station for some food. After waiting 15 minutes for him
to return from the toilet, she was shocked when a waiter told her he had
driven off. Abandoned and distraught she hitch hiked back to Ambridge.
Caroline and Mrs Antrobus were amongst those who lost money thanks to him.
[Information taken from TAE and TAA (The Archers Archives).]

--

CaroleT

[Chris J Dixon]

Robin Fairbairns wrote:

>we weren't told, iirc. i worked out a good technique ... she wanders
>vaguely along the motorway (best to use the hard shoulder) and sooner or
>later a police car comes and they treat her gently since she's obviously
>a nutter. could probably swing a trip all the way home in a police car
>that way.

She could well get rid of all her troubles following that
suggestion :-(

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message
<1608219828345643473.642075surprisingly.this.address.is.valid-spampot.com
@news.eternal-september.org>, Ralph B

<surprisingly.this...@spampot.com> writes:
>Jo Lonergan <jolon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 15 Dec 2011 07:23:04 +0000, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:

[]

>>>> wrong next, and should I think about changing cars - but I hate doing
>>>> that (and this one _has_ been pretty reliable so far, apart from the
>>>> infuriating mysterious short about twice a year).
>>>
>> <snip>
>>
>>> IKWYM about changing cars, my last three averaged 10 years use by
>>> me, and only the first was new.
>>>
>> I've had three in 34 years, and intend to drive this one until it
>>turns up its
>> toes and then not replace it.
>
>OK, you lot are reminding me of:
>- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDGuPp1np4o
>now.

That took me to something called "Tim Minchin - Not Perfect". If that
was what you meant to take us to, I'm a bit puzzled, as the song seemed
to have no mention of cars.

Also, and I rarely comment on such things as taste is such a personal
thing, but I feel I've been deprived of 7 minutes of my life
watching/listening to that. It struck me as reminiscent of the songs in
R4 topical comedy prog.s - OK, the odd joke in them, but always seem a
waste of effort making a whole song about them. (And in this case,
repeating the joke - a thin one - several times with tiny variations, to
take up the 7 minutes.)

But YMMV, as they say.

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

/Top Gear/ always makes me smile. Not because I have a great love of cars, but
because Jeremy Clarkson seems to be very good at annoying the people who
deserve
to be annoyed. - Sir Terry Pratchett, Radio Times 31 Jan - 6 Feb 2009.

[Ralph B]

I do apologise, jpeg. I thought I was replying to the branch of this thread
that was talking about lives/bodies in a similar manner as one normally
discusses cars (and there is such a subthread, I've checked) and i missed
that this sub-thread was actually discussing cars in a manner in which one
normally discusses cars. I wasn't expecting that.

And also sorry you you didn't like Mr Minchin. We think he's a Most
Splendid Thing but, as you say, YMMV.

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message
<1933214800345705231.511299surprisingly.this.address.is.valid-spampot.com

@news.eternal-september.org>, Ralph B
<surprisingly.this...@spampot.com> writes:
>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:

[]

>> Also, and I rarely comment on such things as taste is such a personal
>> thing, but I feel I've been deprived of 7 minutes of my life
>> watching/listening to that. It struck me as reminiscent of the songs in
>> R4 topical comedy prog.s - OK, the odd joke in them, but always seem a
>> waste of effort making a whole song about them. (And in this case,
>> repeating the joke - a thin one - several times with tiny variations, to
>> take up the 7 minutes.)
>>
>> But YMMV, as they say.
>
>I do apologise, jpeg. I thought I was replying to the branch of this thread
>that was talking about lives/bodies in a similar manner as one normally
>discusses cars (and there is such a subthread, I've checked) and i missed
>that this sub-thread was actually discussing cars in a manner in which one
>normally discusses cars. I wasn't expecting that.
>
>And also sorry you you didn't like Mr Minchin. We think he's a Most
>Splendid Thing but, as you say, YMMV.

That's OK; I felt a little guilty saying it, as such things _are_ so
subjective. (I suppose I tend to overpromote Mr. Lehrer, and the works
of Douglas Adams, myself.)

[Jenny M Benson]

On 16/12/2011 01:13, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
>
> That took me to something called "Tim Minchin - Not Perfect". If that
> was what you meant to take us to, I'm a bit puzzled, as the song seemed
> to have no mention of cars.
>
> Also, and I rarely comment on such things as taste is such a personal
> thing, but I feel I've been deprived of 7 minutes of my life
> watching/listening to that. It struck me as reminiscent of the songs in
> R4 topical comedy prog.s - OK, the odd joke in them, but always seem a
> waste of effort making a whole song about them. (And in this case,
> repeating the joke - a thin one - several times with tiny variations, to
> take up the 7 minutes.)

I think if I felt that way about something I wouldn't stick around for
the whole 7 minutes!

--
Jenny M Benson

[LFS]

Sometimes you hang on in the hope that things will improve, especially
if it's a personal recommendation. 7 minutes is nothing: I've struggled
through some books that I really didn't like because someone whose taste
usually coincides with mine has said "You'll enjoy this" and I've found
it difficult to believe that I'm not!

--
Laura
(emulate St. George for email)

[Kate Brown]

On Fri, 16 Dec 2011, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote
>In message
><1933214800345705231.511299surprisingly.this.address.is.valid-spampot.co>m

>@news.eternal-september.org>, Ralph B
><surprisingly.this...@spampot.com> writes:
>>"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>[]
>>> Also, and I rarely comment on such things as taste is such a personal
>>> thing, but I feel I've been deprived of 7 minutes of my life
>>> watching/listening to that. It struck me as reminiscent of the songs in
>>> R4 topical comedy prog.s - OK, the odd joke in them, but always seem a
>>> waste of effort making a whole song about them. (And in this case,
>>> repeating the joke - a thin one - several times with tiny variations, to
>>> take up the 7 minutes.)
>>>
>>> But YMMV, as they say.
>>
>>I do apologise, jpeg. I thought I was replying to the branch of this thread
>>that was talking about lives/bodies in a similar manner as one normally
>>discusses cars (and there is such a subthread, I've checked) and i missed
>>that this sub-thread was actually discussing cars in a manner in which one
>>normally discusses cars. I wasn't expecting that.
>>
>>And also sorry you you didn't like Mr Minchin. We think he's a Most
>>Splendid Thing but, as you say, YMMV.
>
>That's OK; I felt a little guilty saying it, as such things _are_ so
>subjective. (I suppose I tend to overpromote Mr. Lehrer, and the works
>of Douglas Adams, myself.)

Not sure whether Mr Lehrer likes the works of Mr Adams, but the reverse
was certainly true. Carol parties chez Adams often ended with this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtZR3lJobjw

--
Kate B

PS nospam means nospam. But umra at cockaigne dot org dot uk will get through!

[Nick Odell]

There's probably a point somewhere where it should be possible to cry
'enough is enough' and put the book down. Too soon, and one may wonder
about what might be missed; too late and it seems a waste not to
finish the wretched thing to justify all the energy thus far expended.

The example I come back to is The Shipping News. I didn't like Quoyle,
I had nothing in common with him, no reason to sympathise with him and
I didn't even like the sound of his name. So against my better
judgement and purely on the recommendation of a good friend, I
ploughed on. On and on. And somewhere around page forty, Proulx
suddenly made me care about him and I became totally absorbed by his
world. But it would have to be a _very_ good recommendation from a
_very_ good friend to make me do that again.

Nick

[badriya]

I quit on The Dice Man years ago and on Moving Pictures too. I watch
some films B doesn't want to see in 2 parts in the afternoon with my
coffee and bread and spread and jam treat. Sometimes I don't bother
with the second half the next day. I think Country Strong will be one
and Bad Teacher was one too. Was umbrella in both? Ah no Gwyneth
Paltrow in the former and Cameron Diaz in the latter.

OK, I pick chick flicks for afternoon viewing, but there are limits
:).

--
Vicky

[Ralph B]

On Dec 16, 8:30 am, "J. P. Gilliver (John)"

<G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <1933214800345705231.511299surprisingly.this.address.is.valid-spampot.com
> @news.eternal-september.org>, Ralph B
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> <surprisingly.this.address.is.va...@spampot.com> writes:
> >"J. P. Gilliver (John)" <G6...@soft255.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> []
> >> Also, and I rarely comment on such things as taste is such a personal
> >> thing, but I feel I've been deprived of 7 minutes of my life
> >> watching/listening to that. It struck me as reminiscent of the songs in
> >> R4 topical comedy prog.s - OK, the odd joke in them, but always seem a
> >> waste of effort making a whole song about them. (And in this case,
> >> repeating the joke - a thin one - several times with tiny variations, to
> >> take up the 7 minutes.)
>
> >> But YMMV, as they say.
>
> >I do apologise, jpeg. I thought I was replying to the branch of this thread
> >that was talking about lives/bodies in a similar manner as one normally
> >discusses cars (and there is such a subthread, I've checked) and i missed
> >that this sub-thread was actually discussing cars in a manner in which one
> >normally discusses cars. I wasn't expecting that.
>
> >And also sorry you you didn't like Mr Minchin. We think he's a Most
> >Splendid Thing but, as you say, YMMV.
>
> That's OK; I felt a little guilty saying it, as such things _are_ so
> subjective. (I suppose I tend to overpromote Mr. Lehrer, and the works
> of Douglas Adams, myself.)

If you would risk losing another 9 minutes (that you'll never get
back) in the company of Mr Minchin then you might care to hear his
beat poem "Storm":
- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UB_htqDCP-s
and perhaps find that there is a wee bit more going on there than in
the average R4 funny song.

[Jenny M Benson]

On 16/12/2011 12:18, Nick Odell wrote:
> There's probably a point somewhere where it should be possible to cry
> 'enough is enough' and put the book down. Too soon, and one may wonder
> about what might be missed; too late and it seems a waste not to
> finish the wretched thing to justify all the energy thus far expended.

I usually reckon 50 pages is enough to make a decision on. If I'm
really not sure I'll give it to 100 pages.

--
Jenny M Benson

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

In message <KOmrTmGF...@nospam.demon.co.uk>, Kate Brown

<elv...@nospam.demon.co.uk> writes:
>On Fri, 16 Dec 2011, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote

[]

>>That's OK; I felt a little guilty saying it, as such things _are_ so
>>subjective. (I suppose I tend to overpromote Mr. Lehrer, and the works
>>of Douglas Adams, myself.)
>
>Not sure whether Mr Lehrer likes the works of Mr Adams, but the reverse
>was certainly true. Carol parties chez Adams often ended with this:

We hear nothing of Mr. Lehrer these days; he is 83, after all (not that
that's a reason not to still be performing, but - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tom_Lehrer#Departure_from_the_music_scene -
he just lost interest, some decades ago).

>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DtZR3lJobjw
>
That should have far wider circulation at this time of year.

(I think the closest recent inheritor of Lehrer - not only in humour,
but in pianistic [?] style - is Dillie Keane, though she adds some
rather nice gentle stuff of her own too. But "Sew on a sequin" is, to
me, clearly influenced, including one line in particular. She has
acknowledged his influence too, I think.)

--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G.5AL-IS-P--Ch++(p)Ar@T0H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

Ask not for whom the bell tolls; let the machine get it