OT: Parcel delivery rant

[Jenny M Benson]

Yesterday afternoon I was notified that a parcel from Jacobs Douwe
Egberts had been dispatched and I was given a DHL tracking link.
Following the link, I found that the parcel had supposedly been
"delivered and signed for by Jenny" last Thursday. Utter tosh as I
wasn't at home that day. There is a photo which is supposed to support
this claim, but in fact shows the parcel outside in what I know is a
very public place, but could be anywhere in the country or beyond if you
aren't intimately acquainted with the exterior of my building. Needless
to say, the parcel was stolen.

Complaints have been made to both companies involved and await the
outcome, prepared to pursue the matter in legal channels if necessary.

In the meantime, I have learned from the Manager of a DHL depot that
proof of delivery photographs should show the person receiving the
parcel (not their face). I have received many, many parcels since the
current unpleasantness began and only once has a photo been taken while
I held the parcel. On nearly every occasion of expecting a delivery I
have been notified in advance and either been at home or made
arrangements for an alternate delivery, but on another occasion a parcel
was left outside, a completely "anonymous" photo claimed to prove
delivery and that one was also stolen. I can't remember which delivery
company that was.

Has any otherrat experienced this complete lack of honesty, common sense
and decent customer service?
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

[Vicky Ayech]

We've many times had companies say things were handed to someone when
they were left outside. We get a lot of deliveries. They are building
new storehouses near here and I think it's to accommodate all the
stuff B buys.
A few months ago I bought an iphone. I can't remember if I ranted
about that non-delivery? I won't now unless you haven't heard it :)

[Mike McMillan]

I have recently had a run-in with a company who promised to sell me 3x 8TB
hard drives; they took the payment on the day I placed the order and have
fabricated excuses for 17 days about how the goods were ‘lost’ in the hands
of the Royal Mail 24 hour service, then the second lot (so they say) was
sent via Amazon [FBA]*, the third lot, carrier unknown but no-show and a
fourth consignment was despatched via PO Special delivery by 13:00 today -
it did not arrive (surprise surprise). The order has now been cancelled and
a full refund requested - poor company must have lost over £1500 on this
deal [or they would have done, were it true] and now have to return my
payment in full! (My heart does not bleed for them at all!) An order has
been placed with a more reliable company who have previously supplied
similar goods; they will arrive tomorrow via Amazon. Rant Over - go back to
more important matters now, thank you for your time and indulgence.

*FBA Fulfilled By Amazon, ie., they supply and deliver on third party
products.
--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

[Philip Hole]

The legal position:

The responsibility for delivery lies with the sender. The courier has a
contract with the sender. You have a contract with the sender.

Communications with the courier are not helpful and they have no duty to
you. Many parcels are offloaded so you may not know who actually left
the parcel (especially from Amazon).

Focus on the sender. Give them all details and threaten to recoup your
costs by chargeback.

Was there an estimated delivery date?


A lot of parcels are going AWOL with the increased level of online
shopping due to Covid. Many couriers are trying to facilitate this by
extending drivers hours/number of packages per shift.

JDE should sort this quickly as it is costing them.

Best of luck.
--
Flop

[Penny]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 10:59:15 +0100, Philip Hole <ne...@theholefamily.org>
scrawled in the dust...

>A lot of parcels are going AWOL with the increased level of online
>shopping due to Covid.

I watched an old NCIS episode this week which starts with a couple of
thieves following a delivery van and stealing any parcels left on
doorsteps. Getting back to the car with the latest box, the wife says she
hopes the contents are better than the last one. She opens it and BOOM!

That parcel had at least been delivered to the correct address or they'd
never have figured out who sent the bomb.

--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

[Jenny M Benson]

>
> The legal position:
>
> The responsibility for delivery lies with the sender. The courier has a
> contract with the sender. You have a contract with the sender.
>
> Communications with the courier are not helpful and they have no duty to
> you. Many parcels are offloaded so you may not know who actually left
> the parcel (especially from Amazon).
>
> Focus on the sender. Give them all details and threaten to recoup your
> costs by chargeback.
>
> Was there an estimated delivery date?
>
>
> A lot of parcels are going AWOL with the increased level of online
> shopping due to Covid. Many couriers are trying to facilitate this by
> extending drivers hours/number of packages per shift.
>
> JDE should sort this quickly as it is costing them.
>
> Best of luck.

Thank you. JDE now say they have "escalated" the matter, so I live in hope.

However, the more I think about it the more steamed up I am getting
about this business of parcels being left "on doorsteps." I suppose
it's not quite so bad if the recipient's doorstep is within their garden
or otherwise within private property. In my case, the parcel was left
in a public place. I don't call that "delivered", I call it
"abandoned." How can the delivery companies get away with that? The
Post Office (and others), if unable to deliver (in the true sense) an
item leave a card informing the recipient of the attempt and what to do.
Why is this not universal? It would avoid a lot of crime, ill will
and expense for the senders.

Anyone care to join me in a class action?

[krw]

On 15.9.21 11:34, Jenny M Benson wrote:
> Anyone care to join me in a class action?

Sounds too much like going back to school. Having suffered a wine
delivery into someone else's wheely bin for rubbish in another street
and having had wine dumped on the doorstep which (by the time we found
it) had a number of broken bottles I would have thought the senders
would be taking action against the couriers as they are the people who
are causing the losses.

Perhaps losses by couriers cost less than store pilferage?

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

[Mike McMillan]

krw <k...@whitnet.uk> wrote:
> On 15.9.21 11:34, Jenny M Benson wrote:
>> Anyone care to join me in a class action?
>
> Sounds too much like going back to school. Having suffered a wine
> delivery into someone else's wheely bin for rubbish in another street
> and having had wine dumped on the doorstep which (by the time we found
> it) had a number of broken bottles I would have thought the senders
> would be taking action against the couriers as they are the people who
> are causing the losses.
>
> Perhaps losses by couriers cost less than store pilferage?
>

Stores refer to this as ‘Shrinkage’, I wonder if the couriers should use
the word ‘Leakage’?

[Mike McMillan]

As a follow-up to my previous posting on the matter, I did see a Royal Mail
van outside about 14:30, the driver did not bring me any of the previously
promised parcels though - he was off elsewhere with a delivery. I can only
conclude that my hapless supplier of hard drives now has four consignments
to claim from various couriers for. Me - a cynic? ;-)))

[Penny]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 11:34:03 +0100, Jenny M Benson <Nemo...@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

>However, the more I think about it the more steamed up I am getting
>about this business of parcels being left "on doorsteps." I suppose
>it's not quite so bad if the recipient's doorstep is within their garden
>or otherwise within private property. In my case, the parcel was left
>in a public place. I don't call that "delivered", I call it
>"abandoned." How can the delivery companies get away with that? The
>Post Office (and others), if unable to deliver (in the true sense) an
>item leave a card informing the recipient of the attempt and what to do.
> Why is this not universal? It would avoid a lot of crime, ill will
>and expense for the senders.

I once found a soggy parcel at the end of the garden, where the postman had
chucked it over the back gate some days earlier. This would have been in
the '80s, it was from a book club - I complained to the sorting office.

[Chris J Dixon]

Penny wrote:

>I once found a soggy parcel at the end of the garden, where the postman had
>chucked it over the back gate some days earlier. This would have been in
>the '80s, it was from a book club - I complained to the sorting office.

One autumn, as the leaves dropped from a contorted hazel in my
front garden, it became clear that a sizeable telephone directory
(remember them?) had been wedged in its branches.

I wrote about this in a letter published in the Guardian. They
even used my tag line "Trunk Calls?".

Chris
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
ch...@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

[Jim Easterbrook]

On Wed, 15 Sep 2021 14:24:24 -0000 (UTC), Mike McMillan wrote:

> As a follow-up to my previous posting on the matter, I did see a Royal
> Mail van outside about 14:30, the driver did not bring me any of the
> previously promised parcels though - he was off elsewhere with a
> delivery. I can only conclude that my hapless supplier of hard drives
> now has four consignments to claim from various couriers for. Me - a
> cynic? ;-)))

I received a parcel via DPD this morning, handed to me at my door by a
polite young man called Lucas, according to a DPD email. A few minutes
later I received an email telling me that my parcel had been handed to
"Linda at 65". I live at 52.

Still better than UPS who, a few months ago, failed to deliver a parcel
to me. When I finally managed to register a complaint on their user-
hostile web site the result of their enquiries was that my parcel had
been delivered to "other" and they suggested I conducted a door-to-door
enquiry to find it. A week or more later a lady from a house several
doors down on the other side of the road came to my door and handed me my
parcel.
--
Jim <http://www.jim-easterbrook.me.uk/>
1959/1985? M B+ G+ A L- I- S- P-- CH0(p) Ar++ T+ H0 Q--- Sh0

[Serena Blanchflower]

On 16/09/2021 10:29, Jim Easterbrook wrote:
> Still better than UPS who, a few months ago, failed to deliver a parcel
> to me. When I finally managed to register a complaint on their user-
> hostile web site the result of their enquiries was that my parcel had
> been delivered to "other" and they suggested I conducted a door-to-door
> enquiry to find it. A week or more later a lady from a house several
> doors down on the other side of the road came to my door and handed me my
> parcel.

The local Facebook / Nextdoor pages frequently have posts from people
who are either wondering if anyone has received their parcel or from
people with parcels who don't know where they should have been delivered.
--
Best wishes, Serena
What happens if you get scared half to death - - twice?

[Penny]

On Thu, 16 Sep 2021 07:53:59 +0100, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

>Penny wrote:
>
>>I once found a soggy parcel at the end of the garden, where the postman had
>>chucked it over the back gate some days earlier. This would have been in
>>the '80s, it was from a book club - I complained to the sorting office.
>
>One autumn, as the leaves dropped from a contorted hazel in my
>front garden, it became clear that a sizeable telephone directory
>(remember them?) had been wedged in its branches.
>
>I wrote about this in a letter published in the Guardian. They
>even used my tag line "Trunk Calls?".

:))

When I had my doors and windows replaced a while back I decided not to have
a letterbox in what looks like my front door, though I retained a door
bell. It is effectively on the back of the house in relation to the road I
live on but there is also a small garden gate in the hedge onto the
parallel road below.

I was fed up with finding notes and leaflets down behind the stairlift on
the rare occasions I parked it out of the way. I did make a laminated
notice which I stuck to the door, explaining 'This is not a front door and
is often obstructed. For letterbox, follow the path around the house'.

I still find soggy, sun-bleached, leaflets and directories on the garden
doorstep.

[Min]

May I commend this to umrats?

https://tinyurl.com/uxncmhnb
--
Min

[Sid Nuncius]

On 19/09/2021 02:08, Min wrote:
> May I commend this to umrats?
>
> https://tinyurl.com/uxncmhnb

:o))

Actually, my experience of Yodel has always been good, as has that of
Royal Mail parcels round here. Doesn't spoil a good joke, though.

--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)

[steve hague]

On 19/09/2021 06:27, Sid Nuncius wrote:
> On 19/09/2021 02:08, Min wrote:
>> May I commend this to umrats?
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/uxncmhnb
>
> :o))
>
> Actually, my experience of Yodel has always been good, as has that of
> Royal Mail parcels round here.  Doesn't spoil a good joke, though.
>

A few years ago a local postman was sacked when it was discovered the
items people had reported as not turning up over a couple of weeks were
being dumped in a stream so he could go home early.

[Mike McMillan]

Min <quiz....@googlemail.com> wrote:
> May I commend this to umrats?
>
> https://tinyurl.com/uxncmhnb

Oh How True Min!;-))) [Must say however, DPD and Amazon have been better
than that to me.] (Don’t talk to me about Hermes though…)

[Penny]

On Sun, 19 Sep 2021 07:58:41 +0100, steve hague <steveh...@gmail.com>
scrawled in the dust...

>A few years ago a local postman was sacked when it was discovered the
>items people had reported as not turning up over a couple of weeks were
>being dumped in a stream so he could go home early.

The postman in the rural Essex village where I lived in my teens was also
the lengthsman for roadside verges. He was known as Nipper - we were told
he liked to nip in the pubs along his route. When he was too tired to
complete his postal round he put the remaining mail in the post box - which
at least kept it in the system.

A year or so after I moved here, I received a large envelope from the local
delivery office, containing several envelopes addressed to me and a letter
of apology from the postmaster. It seems one of the local posties had been
hoarding mail at home when he was too tired to complete his round - he had
been sacked.

That one in the Kent village who had tossed my bookclub parcel over the
back gate was probably standing in for the chap who had been reprimanded
for taking too long on his rounds. It could be frustrating if you were
waiting for something to arrive - I once timed him taking over half an hour
to get from the village post office to my house 50 yards away, there were
just 6 houses in between. I'm sure he was doing a great social service in
chatting to all the pensioners in the bungalows but it didn't placate me at
the time. OTOH, one of the town posties, who delivered mail to the home of
the server in our shop before getting to the shop on his round, would bring
her bookclub parcels to her there :)

[Min]

My experience of the PO used to be precisely as written, but
we've now got a (semi) regular postie, who used to hammer
on the door as he knows I'm narcoleptic. I've now got a
doorbell (there's posh) and even if I'm not in, he tends not to
take the parcel back, but keeps an eye out until he sees me and
the Hounds mooching about and hands it over. Above & Beyond!
--
Min

[Sally Thompson]

Min <quiz....@googlemail.com> wrote:
> May I commend this to umrats?
>
> https://tinyurl.com/uxncmhnb

Oh yes, treble yes with feeling. My favourite recently was "your parcel has
been delivered to reception".

--
Sally in Shropshire, UK

[steve hague]

On 20/09/2021 09:08, Sally Thompson wrote:
> Min <quiz....@googlemail.com> wrote:
>> May I commend this to umrats?
>>
>> https://tinyurl.com/uxncmhnb
>
> Oh yes, treble yes with feeling. My favourite recently was "your parcel has
> been delivered to reception".
>

I had a card saying that at work. I didn't have a reception.

[Mike McMillan]

I can’t conceive how you hoped to perceive to receive it then!

[Sally Thompson]

I don't have one at home either:-). We eventually discovered it had been
delivered next door.

[Jenny M Benson]

The situation re my abandoned-by-DHL (and subsequently stolen) parcel
continues to be unresolved. All I am asking of DHL is that they accept
the parcel was not delivered safely and that they admit the same to JDE
so that JDE will refund or replace. I am getting lots of apologies and
promises to forward my feedback to the relevant people, etc, etc but not
the one simple thing I am asking for and which I believe I am entitled to.

Would it not be far more profitable to admit their mistake and take the
necessary action to "repair it" rather than have me spreading it as far
and wide as I can that they have cocked up?

By contrast, DPD delivered a parcel to-day. Amazon had notified me in
good time, It was delivered at the time they said by a very pleasant
young man who photographed it on my doorstep before - without being
asked - lifted it (it was *very* big and *very* heavy) into my hallway.
Well done, Ryan!

BTW, DHL's tagline is "DHL Parcel - Excellence Simply Delivered." Don't
believe a word of it.

[Mike McMillan]

Jenny M Benson <Nemo...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:

And yet, DHL in my experience have been very good at getting here on time,
delivering as per my instructions and being very polite and offering real
smiles too! This goes for DPD too - as well as Amazon’s own ‘agents’ with
their deliveries. I say ‘agents’ as I think the are sub-contracted services
from some of the great range of vehicular arrangements that turn up with
the parcels. They haven’t got ‘Amazon’ emblazoned on the vans and they vary
in size, colour and type of vehicle.

[Penny]

On Thu, 23 Sep 2021 16:39:12 +0100, Jenny M Benson <Nemo...@hotmail.co.uk>
scrawled in the dust...

>The situation re my abandoned-by-DHL (and subsequently stolen) parcel
>continues to be unresolved. All I am asking of DHL is that they accept
>the parcel was not delivered safely and that they admit the same to JDE
>so that JDE will refund or replace.

As someone else pointed out the other day, your contract is with the
vendor. You paid for something and did not receive it. It is not your job
to chase the carrier. Just ask for your money back from the company who
failed to supply what you have paid for. If they won't play ball and you
paid by card or via Paypal, get them on the case.

>By contrast, DPD delivered a parcel to-day. Amazon had notified me in
>good time, It was delivered at the time they said by a very pleasant
>young man who photographed it on my doorstep before - without being
>asked - lifted it (it was *very* big and *very* heavy) into my hallway.
> Well done, Ryan!

I had similar good service from DPD recently.

[Jenny M Benson]

On 23/09/2021 23:24, Penny wrote:
> As someone else pointed out the other day, your contract is with the
> vendor. You paid for something and did not receive it. It is not your job
> to chase the carrier. Just ask for your money back from the company who
> failed to supply what you have paid for. If they won't play ball and you
> paid by card or via Paypal, get them on the case.

I told DHL that I knew their contract was with the vendor and that was
not claiming any recompense from them (DHL). As JDE had said at the
start "DHL say they delivered it so you have no claim" I just asked DHL
to admit to JDE that they had not "safely delivered" it so that I could
get reimbursement from JDE.

[Philip Hole]

>
> I had similar good service from DPD recently.
>

Until recently DPD have been zooming around the area in a golf cart :-)

There must be a mother ship somewhere to top it up but it seemed to be
incredibly fast between customers.
Drive up to the door, turn around and on to the next.

Most impressive.

--
Flop

[Mike McMillan]

AnyRat seen the little ‘drone carts’ delivering in the MK area?

[J. P. Gilliver (John)]

On Fri, 24 Sep 2021 at 08:55:38, Jenny M Benson <Nemo...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote (my responses usually follow points raised):

JDE are, IMO, wrong. Your contract is with JDE; if it isn't delivered,
that's JDE's problem. If DHL are being awkward, it's up to JDE to sort
it out with them - not you. DHL's contract is with them - not you.

(I've never heard of JDE, but that's not relevant to the above.) If
there's any sort of refund process in place (like ebay and I think
Amazon do), start it, if nothing happens soon. But don't accept any part
of it as binding.

(At worst, your credit card company - assuming you used one - are
jointly liable, and will help you if it comes to it - but they're
understandable reluctant to get involved, so will probably ask you to
pursue it with the seller first, possibly even asking you to obtain a
"deadlock letter".)

IANAL - this advice is worth less than you paid for it (-:
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"Bother," said Pooh, as he fell off the bridge with his stick.

[krw]

On 24.9.21 14:12, J. P. Gilliver (John) wrote:
> I've never heard of JDE

I assume J D Edwards a mail order company.

[Mike McMillan]

But very true nonetheless, as stated you purchased goods from a company and
paid for them; they chose the means of getting those goods to you but
failed to ensure they reached you in a timely manner (legal term that!),
thus, they have broken their contract with you and should rectify or
re-imburse, either way with profuse apologies. The company has a contract
with a carrier who failed to execute the delivery to you; not your problem
- it is a contract between supplier of goods and the supplier of services
that failed. Go get them Girl!

[Mike McMillan]

Perhaps I might take this opportunity to stand on my soap box for a few
(maybe quite a few) moments. If I am dealing with a company who behave in a
similar manner to that which you have experienced, all they manage to do is
encourage me to dig my heels in deeper - I have always ‘won’ my case.
(Drives Mrs. Toodles mad sometimes!!!) There is not only goods, a sum of
money or a contract that has failed to satisfy me, but there is a principle
at stake and it usually is dressed in day-glow colours, hovers in mid-air
and hums loudly until I get satisfaction!!!!! I recently bought some hard
discs for my NAS and there were two versions and the newer one was more
expensive but looked like it would ‘future proof’ me for longer. (It had
vibration detecting sensors built in and a few other features that I didn’t
have an absolute need for just now but could be useful one day); I opted to
pay the extra for the drives but, when they arrived, they were the previous
generation of hard disc (but still adequate for the job). I contacted the
‘fulfiller of the order’ no name, no cordless drill but you don’t have to
go far in the alphabet to find them. I explained what had happened and they
said that they were not empowered to refund more than £20, would I like to
contact the actual supplier? I did so and explained again, they could see
what had happened and refunded me £96 which was slightly more than the
difference in the price for the four drives. Incidentally, this all
followed on from a previous company who ‘seemed’ to have all four
consignments by various carriers stolen en route. I obtained a full refund
from them too. I think I have probably mentioned my various run-ins with
Grittish Bas, Lloyds Bank and a few other organisations where I experienced
that day-glow, hovering hummer.

[Chris]

Grandson Adam’s nanna by his birth father is known for her tenacity as
“Rottweiler”: meet Rottweiler No 2.

Sincerely Chris

[Tony Smith]

On Sunday, 19 September 2021 at 11:00:11 UTC+1, Penny wrote:
<snipped>

> a letter
> of apology from the postmaster.

In the Christmas Vac. 1967-8 the posts lost a letter from my then (new) girlfriend. Weeks later it arrived with an apology from the posts.