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krw

unread,
Nov 15, 2023, 8:05:07 AM11/15/23
to
As already mentioned Monday was a real IT day with support from Apple,
Microsoft just trying to make life difficult and then the whole of
Usenet going awol because Plusnet's supplier stopped supplying.

And I really missed you all!

Anyway it became clear that Plusnet were asking for logon to accept news
and I think this has been an underlying problem for some time.

It looks as if the "header has arrived but cannot get the message body"
is linked in some way to the lack of logon to the news server.

Now it is not the first time that Plusnet has suddenly asked for logon
to the news server - and online reports in Plusnet forums (fora?) makes
it clear that the service is entirely outsourced to Giganews.

So instead of raising the usual support notice I decided to lodge a
formal complaint and the result of that was a phone call asking for more
information about this mysterious news.plus.net server and Usenet of
which the lady had no knowledge.

I eventually find that others have reported it in the usual online forum
and poor old Bob Pullen (who seems to be the only person who knows
anything even after all these years) (and I assume he is not the Mr
Pullen with the bladder problem) has reminded Giganews of how they are
supposed to organise their outsourced service.

He did this on Tuesday morning and the usenet service re-appeared very
late on Tuesday evening - so the outage was nearly 24 hours.

Meanwhile there is a battle going on between the good lady wife and the
latest incarnation of what passes for a doctor in this neighbourhood - a
voice on the other end of a telephone who may well have been outsourced
(that word again) to the outer reaches of the galaxy (or Bracknell).
But you do not want to know any more about that.
--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

Vicky

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Nov 15, 2023, 8:51:22 AM11/15/23
to
Wife is brave. The general fear is if you annoy them they black list
you. I argue with most orgs but fear GPs

Sam Plusnet

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Nov 15, 2023, 1:57:47 PM11/15/23
to
Talking of Wofes, NHS and outsourcing...

Wofe tried to get an appointment at the sleep clinic, and no-one would
answer any of the phone numbers she had for them, not could the hospital
switchboard do any better.

Eventually I suggested she email them - and this worked very promptly.
However...
The clinic seem to have outsourced all patient/client/customer contact
to a private company called DrDoctor.

I assume manyrats will have known all about this for some time, but what
the merry hell is going on?!?

--
Sam Plusnet

Serena Blanchflower

unread,
Nov 15, 2023, 2:17:44 PM11/15/23
to
On 15/11/2023 13:04, krw wrote:
>
> Anyway it became clear that Plusnet were asking for logon to accept news
> and I think this has been an underlying problem for some time.
>
> It looks as if the "header has arrived but cannot get the message body"
> is linked in some way to the lack of logon to the news server.
>
> Now it is not the first time that Plusnet has suddenly asked for logon
> to the news server - and online reports in Plusnet forums (fora?) makes
> it clear that the service is entirely outsourced to Giganews.
>
> So instead of raising the usual support notice I decided to lodge a
> formal complaint and the result of that was a phone call asking for more
> information about this mysterious news.plus.net server and Usenet of
> which the lady had no knowledge.
>
> I eventually find that others have reported it in the usual online forum
> and poor old Bob Pullen (who seems to be the only person who knows
> anything even after all these years) (and I assume he is not the Mr
> Pullen with the bladder problem) has reminded Giganews of how they are
> supposed to organise their outsourced service.


I switched from using the Plusnet news server a few years ago, after
similar problems, when it became very clear that usenet came even lower
down Plusnet's priority list than their email system[1]. I moved to
Eternal September and haven't had any reason to regret that decision.


[1] Which I've also moved away from depending on.

--
Best wishes, Serena
If nothing ever changed, there'd be no butterflies. (Anon)

krw

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Nov 15, 2023, 6:13:19 PM11/15/23
to
On 15.11.23 18:57, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> I assume manyrats will have known all about this for some time, but what
> the merry hell is going on?!?

Merry no

Hell yes.

No-one seems to understand that doing it in house means better quality
control and lower costs, providing you have knowledgeable management.
The consultants tell you that external resources are cheaper and can
achieve the same quality - and sometimes it is true.

As an example my employer used to run a canteen - but when the long term
staff left replacing them was hard and so we outsourced it to a catering
company and they then had the problem of making sure that people and
materials were on hand. I suspect it was more expensive but meals were
available because if someone was off sick then the catering company
would ferry in the resource - not something easy for us to achieve. So
it was more reliable.

However I have no knowledge how competent our local practice is because
the IT systems prevent anyone getting anywhere near the medical
practitioners.

krw

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Nov 15, 2023, 6:14:59 PM11/15/23
to
When Plusnet went walkabout I had a look for Eternal September but my
browser could not find it - has it followed aioe into the ether?

Vicky

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Nov 15, 2023, 11:41:45 PM11/15/23
to
I last renewed in May 23 here
https://news.individual.net/

Nick Odell

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Nov 16, 2023, 3:24:36 AM11/16/23
to
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 23:14:46 +0000, krw <k...@whitnet.uk> wrote:

I am not and never have been a Berlin server user but if you want
good, reliable usenet service then the link on Vicky's message is the
way to go. Is it still €10 per year? Bargain!

I use Eternal September and I'm happy with it but if you want
perfection then I'm afraid you won't be. If you are willing to roll
with it and be understanding about the occasional outages and hiccups
then go to https://www.eternal-september.org/ and sign up. It's free
but Ray Banana always appreciates donations. There are/used to be
several alternative ways to connect but I currently use port 119 on
news.eternal-september.org

Nick

Vicky

unread,
Nov 16, 2023, 4:26:16 AM11/16/23
to
On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 08:24:27 +0000, Nick Odell <nicko...@yahoo.ca>
wrote:

>I am not and never have been a Berlin server user but if you want
>good, reliable usenet service then the link on Vicky's message is the
>way to go. Is it still €10 per year? Bargain!

Yes 10

Serena Blanchflower

unread,
Nov 16, 2023, 4:38:48 AM11/16/23
to
On 15/11/2023 23:14, krw wrote:
>
> When Plusnet went walkabout I had a look for Eternal September but my
> browser could not find it - has it followed aioe into the ether?

No, it's still there, and you can sign up, and find directions on how to
use them, at <https://www.eternal-september.org/>.

--
Best wishes, Serena
And, while it was regarded as pretty good evidence of criminality to be
living in a slum, for some reason owning a whole street of them merely
got you invited to the very best social occasions. (Terry Pratchett)

krw

unread,
Nov 16, 2023, 4:58:44 AM11/16/23
to
On 16.11.23 09:38, Serena Blanchflower wrote:
> On 15/11/2023 23:14, krw wrote:
>>
>> When Plusnet went walkabout I had a look for Eternal September but my
>> browser could not find it - has it followed aioe into the ether?
>
> No, it's still there, and you can sign up, and find directions on how to
> use them, at <https://www.eternal-september.org/>.
>

Strange. Google cannot find it if I search for eternalseptember but
clearly it still exists. The missing hyphen seems to be problematic.

J. P. Gilliver

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Nov 16, 2023, 8:35:29 AM11/16/23
to
In message <297bli5gl1u6h0ua3...@4ax.com> at Thu, 16 Nov
2023 04:41:40, Vicky <vicky...@gmail.com> writes
>On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 23:14:46 +0000, krw <k...@whitnet.uk> wrote:
[]
>>When Plusnet went walkabout I had a look for Eternal September but my
>>browser could not find it - has it followed aioe into the ether?
>
>
>I last renewed in May 23 here
>https://news.individual.net/

That's Berlin, not E-S. As Nick and others have said, the Berlin one is
still excellent value; I use E-S some of the time, but would certainly
switch to the Berlin one should E-S disappear.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

<Squawk> Pieces of eight!
<Squawk> Pieces of eight!
<Squawk> Pieces of nine!
<SYSTEM HALTED: parroty error!>

J. P. Gilliver

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Nov 16, 2023, 8:45:29 AM11/16/23
to
In message <Iw85N.26066$Ee89...@fx17.iad> at Wed, 15 Nov 2023
18:57:44, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> writes
[]
>Wofe tried to get an appointment at the sleep clinic, and no-one would
>answer any of the phone numbers she had for them, not could the
>hospital switchboard do any better.

Tempting to say are they all asleep!
>
>Eventually I suggested she email them - and this worked very promptly.
>However...
>The clinic seem to have outsourced all patient/client/customer contact
>to a private company called DrDoctor.
>
>I assume manyrats will have known all about this for some time, but
>what the merry hell is going on?!?
>
As another has said, hell but not merry. Fortunately I've not had to
deal with the system my surgery uses (which I think is indeed some
outside system), but my dentist has also outsourced, to a system which
quite rudely emails, before your appointment, please fill out these
forms online and if you don't you may lose the appointment. I actually
would try, but it goes like this: go to the webpage (the email actually
contains a link that only works online, but I got the practice to email
me a direct link to it). There, you enter your surname and date of
birth, and it says it has sent a code for you to enter to the 'phone
number it has that is associated with those details. Of course, that is
a landline - and the code does not arrive. [I have actually had a code
to a landline - it's read out, and you can get the reading-out repeated
- but obviously few companies know how to work that.] There's no
mechanism on the website to proceed by any other means. (Such as email.)

I've explained to the practice that I don't use a mobile (I have one,
but am not going to let any company rely on it), and they let me fill in
the forms when I'm there. I don't really want to involve the practice in
sorting this out - it's not really _their_ fault. I suspect the
outsourcing company would actually be liable - under disability
legislation, if nothing else - but getting through to a person who could
understand would be Very Hard Work. (Though actually, I'm feeling like
such a tussle; maybe I'll have a go now.)

J. P. Gilliver

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Nov 16, 2023, 8:55:29 AM11/16/23
to
In message <uj35gl$1mbk5$1...@dont-email.me> at Wed, 15 Nov 2023 19:17:41,
Serena Blanchflower <nos...@blanchflower.me.uk> writes
[]
>I switched from using the Plusnet news server a few years ago, after
>similar problems, when it became very clear that usenet came even lower
>down Plusnet's priority list than their email system[1]. I moved to
>Eternal September and haven't had any reason to regret that decision.
>
I still use it for some 'groups (not least
plusnet.service.customer-feedback, which I'm not sure anyone else
carries). I switch to E-S when away from home, as I know I can't post
(not sure about read) when not on a PN connection, but usually switch
back. Not sure why I do - partly, I think, on the basis of use it or
lose it.
>
>[1] Which I've also moved away from depending on.
>
As I have my own domain, I could go direct to the hoster (Krystal)'s own
servers; at present I just have them forward all to PlusNet, but could
change that if necessary. (I set up the domain mainly so I don't have to
tell everybody a new email if I _do_ change; once [when the demon emails
stopped working] was enough.)

Random quote below is moderately appropriate for once!
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

so that the vendors can "serve you better". As if you were a tennis ball, I
guess. - Wolf K, in alt.windows7.general, 2014-7-21

Serena Blanchflower

unread,
Nov 16, 2023, 10:03:55 AM11/16/23
to
On 16/11/2023 13:31, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>
> That's Berlin, not E-S. As Nick and others have said, the Berlin one is
> still excellent value; I use E-S some of the time, but would certainly
> switch to the Berlin one should E-S disappear.

As would I. When I first switched to E-S, I was rather assuming that I
was en-route to Berlin but, as E-S has worked well, I've never felt the
need to do so.

--
Best wishes, Serena
I must have a prodigious quantity of mind; it takes me as much as a
week, sometimes, to make it up. (Mark Twain)

Serena Blanchflower

unread,
Nov 16, 2023, 10:07:46 AM11/16/23
to
On 16/11/2023 13:49, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <uj35gl$1mbk5$1...@dont-email.me> at Wed, 15 Nov 2023 19:17:41,
> Serena Blanchflower <nos...@blanchflower.me.uk> writes
> []
>> I switched from using the Plusnet news server a few years ago, after
>> similar problems, when it became very clear that usenet came even
>> lower down Plusnet's priority list than their email system[1].  I
>> moved to Eternal September and haven't had any reason to regret that
>> decision.
>>
> I still use it for some 'groups (not least
> plusnet.service.customer-feedback, which I'm not sure anyone else
> carries). I switch to E-S when away from home, as I know I can't post
> (not sure about read) when not on a PN connection, but usually switch
> back. Not sure why I do - partly, I think, on the basis of use it or
> lose it.

Yes, I still have the PN server set up in Thunderbird, largely so that I
can access plusnet.service.customer-feedback, should I need to. I don't
have it set up to download automatically though and it's a long time
since I've gone looking at it.


>> [1] Which I've also moved away from depending on.
>>
> As I have my own domain, I could go direct to the hoster (Krystal)'s own
> servers; at present I just have them forward all to PlusNet, but could
> change that if necessary. (I set up the domain mainly so I don't have to
> tell everybody a new email if I _do_ change; once [when the demon emails
> stopped working] was enough.)

I used to have my emails forwarded to PlusNet but, after a period when
they were pretty unreliable, I took advantage of having my own domain
and it was easy to switch it to forwarding everything to gmail instead.

--
Best wishes, Serena
I stayed up all night to see where the sun went, and then it dawned on me.

J. P. Gilliver

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Nov 16, 2023, 11:25:35 AM11/16/23
to
In message <uj5b7v$26it6$2...@dont-email.me> at Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:07:43,
Serena Blanchflower <nos...@blanchflower.me.uk> writes
>On 16/11/2023 13:49, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>> I still use it for some 'groups (not least
>>plusnet.service.customer-feedback, which I'm not sure anyone else
>>carries). I switch to E-S
[]
>Yes, I still have the PN server set up in Thunderbird, largely so that
>I can access plusnet.service.customer-feedback, should I need to. I
>don't have it set up to download automatically though and it's a long
>time since I've gone looking at it.
>
I take it in full - it's not very busy, and even when posts don't
directly relate to me, they (a) warn me of things that might (b) give a
feel for what the service is like.
[]
>I used to have my emails forwarded to PlusNet but, after a period when
>they were pretty unreliable, I took advantage of having my own domain

Touch wood, I've not had significant problems so far.

>and it was easy to switch it to forwarding everything to gmail instead.
>
I could do that (I have an emergency gmail address), but I've heard
tales of the configuration needing constant tweaks and/or things like
stunnel to keep the server happy. Did you have to switch to gmail
because whoever hosts blanchflower doesn't provide an SMTP/POP
interface, or did you do so for another reason?
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

The best things in life aren't things. - Bear Grylls (RT 2015/2/14-20)

Joe Kerr

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Nov 16, 2023, 12:03:06 PM11/16/23
to
On 15/11/2023 18:57, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> Talking of Wofes, NHS and outsourcing...
>
> Wofe tried to get an appointment at the sleep clinic, and no-one would
> answer any of the phone numbers she had for them, not could the hospital
> switchboard do any better.
>
> Eventually I suggested she email them - and this worked very promptly.
> However...
> The clinic seem to have outsourced all patient/client/customer contact
> to a private company called DrDoctor.
>
> I assume manyrats will have known all about this for some time, but what
> the merry hell is going on?!?
>
My whore spittle uses DrDoctor, but only to send appointment letters to
save printing and postage. They may be responsible for the SMS
reminders, too. As far as I can see it is only one way communication and
all phone numbers and email are still valid for everything else.

--
Ric

Sam Plusnet

unread,
Nov 16, 2023, 2:58:31 PM11/16/23
to
I assume the dental practice decided to use this outside service, so the
more they know about the problems it can create - the better.

--
Sam Plusnet

J. P. Gilliver

unread,
Nov 16, 2023, 3:45:47 PM11/16/23
to
In message <Fvu5N.57543$svP4...@fx12.iad> at Thu, 16 Nov 2023
19:58:30, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> writes
>On 16-Nov-23 13:43, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
[]
>>fill in the forms when I'm there. I don't really want to involve the
>>practice in sorting this out - it's not really _their_ fault. I
>>suspect the outsourcing company would actually be liable - under
>>disability legislation, if nothing else - but getting through to a
>>person who could understand would be Very Hard Work. (Though
>>actually, I'm feeling like such a tussle; maybe I'll have a go now.)

The company seems to be called dentalhub, or something like that. But
googling it just produces lots of links to dentists.
>
>I assume the dental practice decided to use this outside service, so
>the more they know about the problems it can create - the better.
>
In theory, yes, but (a) they're nice people, though have said they can't
take it any further (they've even said something like "I don't know why
'they' make you do that"), and I _really_ like the dentist (very kind,
and knowledgeable, and also a beautiful little Asian lady), and (b) the
next stage in the process involves among other things threatening to
invoke disability and other access legislation, and one doesn't want to
antagonise a dental practice these days, with all the reports of it
being next to impossible to find one taking new patients. Hence wanting
to find the software company. It's like faulty equipment: one's contract
is indeed with the store (e. g. Currys/PC World) where one bought it,
but it's often _quicker_ to contact the manufacturer.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

It is important to write so that you can be understood. It is far more
important to write so that you cannot be misunderstood.

Nick Odell

unread,
Nov 16, 2023, 4:55:59 PM11/16/23
to
On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 13:49:16 +0000, "J. P. Gilliver"
<G6...@255soft.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>I still use it for some 'groups (not least
>plusnet.service.customer-feedback, which I'm not sure anyone else
>carries). I switch to E-S when away from home, as I know I can't post
>(not sure about read) when not on a PN connection, but usually switch
>back. Not sure why I do - partly, I think, on the basis of use it or
>lose it.

<snip>

Obviously, since I'm no longer a PlusNet customer I can't check this
and confirm but, I used to think as you do that I could only read and
write to the PlusNet usenet service if I were physically connected via
PlusNet. That's why I started using Eternal September whenever I went
abroad.

Then one time, years ago, I accidentally went to the PlusNet usenet
service while I was in Argentina and... it worked.

Naturally I thought I'd either broken the service or that the service
was broken anyway and that all manner of spam and other bad stuff was
going to come surging over the breach and ruin everybody's experience
of PlusNet so I wrote a panic-stricken note on one of the PlusNet
forums to warn them of impending doom.

I got a very nice, calm reply which told me that as long as I had a
live, active Plusnet account I could access anything to do with
PlusNet from anywhere regardless of whose network I was connected to
at the time.

I have no idea if that is still the case but might it be worth trying
that out the next time you are out of town?

Nick

Serena Blanchflower

unread,
Nov 17, 2023, 6:02:10 AM11/17/23
to
On 16/11/2023 16:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> I could do that (I have an emergency gmail address), but I've heard
> tales of the configuration needing constant tweaks and/or things like
> stunnel to keep the server happy. Did you have to switch to gmail
> because whoever hosts blanchflower doesn't provide an SMTP/POP
> interface, or did you do so for another reason?

I think some of my domain hosts have provided webmail (presumably
including POP3 and/or IMAP), although one at least didn't, but they were
probably paid services. My main reason for sticking with email servers
which are independent of my domain host has been that, until now, I've
had no reason to need to migrate my emails to the domain host.

At the moment, I'm using an uncomfortable hybrid of TSOHOST's email
service and gmail. The TSOHOST system really doesn't seem to work well,
or at least, not with IMAP, but I haven't yet got round to spending an
hour or two, no doubt, with their customer support to see if I can get
it working properly. If I can't either get their email system working
the way I want, or full email forwarding working (again, that means
working the way I want), plan C will be to find a new domain host who
can support either of Plan A or Plan B.

--
Best wishes, Serena
You are never too old to set another goal or to dream a new dream. (C.S.
Lewis)

J. P. Gilliver

unread,
Nov 17, 2023, 8:16:29 AM11/17/23
to
In message <uj7h7g$2nehi$1...@dont-email.me> at Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:02:08,
Serena Blanchflower <nos...@blanchflower.me.uk> writes
>On 16/11/2023 16:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>> I could do that (I have an emergency gmail address), but I've heard
>>tales of the configuration needing constant tweaks and/or things like
>>stunnel to keep the server happy. Did you have to switch to gmail
>>because whoever hosts blanchflower doesn't provide an SMTP/POP
>>interface, or did you do so for another reason?
>
>I think some of my domain hosts have provided webmail (presumably
>including POP3 and/or IMAP), although one at least didn't, but they
>were probably paid services. My main reason for sticking with email
>servers which are independent of my domain host has been that, until
>now, I've had no reason to need to migrate my emails to the domain host.

Surely they come in to the domain host anyway?
>
>At the moment, I'm using an uncomfortable hybrid of TSOHOST's email
>service and gmail. The TSOHOST system really doesn't seem to work
>well, or at least, not with IMAP, but I haven't yet got round to
>spending an hour or two, no doubt, with their customer support to see
>if I can get it working properly. If I can't either get their email

One of the main reasons I left them (for Krystal, currently) was that
they stopped telephone support. Good luck sorting that sort of thing out
via chat. (I may be being unfair - it may go swimmingly.)

>system working the way I want, or full email forwarding working (again,
>that means working the way I want), plan C will be to find a new domain
>host who can support either of Plan A or Plan B.
>
Touch wood, Krystal seem to be OK at the moment (cost more than tso by
quite a bit). If you do go to them, please mention me - I can't remember
if they have a referral scheme, but you never know.
--
J. P. Gilliver. UMRA: 1960/<1985 MB++G()AL-IS-Ch++(p)Ar@T+H+Sh0!:`)DNAf

"You _are_ Zaphod Beeblebrox? _The_ Zaphod Beeblebrox?"
"No, just _a_ Zaphod Beeblebrox. I come in six-packs." (from the link episode)

Serena Blanchflower

unread,
Nov 18, 2023, 11:47:43 AM11/18/23
to
On 17/11/2023 13:13, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
> In message <uj7h7g$2nehi$1...@dont-email.me> at Fri, 17 Nov 2023 11:02:08,
> Serena Blanchflower <nos...@blanchflower.me.uk> writes
>> On 16/11/2023 16:19, J. P. Gilliver wrote:
>>> I could do that (I have an emergency gmail address), but I've heard
>>> tales of the configuration needing constant tweaks and/or things like
>>> stunnel to keep the server happy. Did you have to switch to gmail
>>> because whoever hosts blanchflower doesn't provide an SMTP/POP
>>> interface, or did you do so for another reason?
>>
>> I think some of my domain hosts have provided webmail (presumably
>> including POP3 and/or IMAP), although one at least didn't, but they
>> were probably paid services.  My main reason for sticking with email
>> servers which are independent of my domain host has been that, until
>> now, I've had no reason to need to migrate my emails to the domain host.
>
> Surely they come in to the domain host anyway?


With most, they may well have done but, as I already had an email server
I was happy with, I never bothered to check exactly what was on offer.
I'm pretty sure that Just the Name didn't have that, they were very
stripped back just offering domain hosting and forwarding your emails to
wherever you chose.



>>
>> At the moment, I'm using an uncomfortable hybrid of TSOHOST's email
>> service and gmail.  The TSOHOST system really doesn't seem to work
>> well, or at least, not with IMAP, but I haven't yet got round to
>> spending an hour or two, no doubt, with their customer support to see
>> if I can get it working properly.  If I can't either get their email
>
> One of the main reasons I left them (for Krystal, currently) was that
> they stopped telephone support. Good luck sorting that sort of thing out
> via chat. (I may be being unfair - it may go swimmingly.)


Thanks. I certainly need to get all my thoughts straight before I start.


--
Best wishes, Serena
It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you
live near him. (J. R. R. Tolkien)

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