OT: Do painkillers react to pain or vice versa?

[Jenny M Benson]

That I mean is, say a person is prone to experiencing headaches. They
have a headache, they take a painkiller or 2 and the pain goes away.
But what if they take a painkiller or 2 when they don't actually have a
headache but are/were going to have one 20 minutes later (although they
don't know it?) Would they not have the headache pain in 20 minutes
because they'd already taken the painkillers before it started?
--
Jenny M Benson
Wrexham, UK

[krw]

That would even give Shroedinger's cat a headache.

Many years ago I used to suffer bad headaches, I won't call them
migraines because few of them were "that" bad. Over the years I took to
always carrying some form of tablet and if I noticed possible symptoms
then I would both dose myself and drink water (it was linked to
dehydration in some cases).

I cannot say that it always prevented the headache but I always felt it
lessened the impact.

Interestingly I no longer suffer in the same way - and the change seemed
to happen when I was diagnosed as diabetic and had to take steps to
reduce weight and keep blood sugar levels down. I still had the off one
- but again dehydration.

Now they are so rare I do not carry tablets and have to go in search if
I am suffering.

Which probably does not answer the question.

--
Kosmo Richard W
www.travelswmw.whitnet.uk
https://tinyurl.com/KRWpics

[Kate B]

Any headache is caused by something - neck tension, squinting,
dehydration, brain tumour. A painkiller doesn't address the cause but
anaesthetises the nerve endings so you don't feel pain. If you take the
painkiller after the causal circumstances are in place but before they
have caused the headache then you won't get the headache because the
analgesic stops the nerve endings reacting. As I understand it, anyway.

I get eye injections periodically. Depending on the skill of the
injector I may get an achey pain round the eye later. If I take a couple
of paracetamol immediately after the procedure I don't get any pain
until four hours later and sometimes not at all. I don't take the pills
before the procedure because a nurse once told me paracetamol (like
aspirin) can exacerbate any bleeding from the injection. But it works
fine afterwards.

--
Kate B

[John Ashby]

On 23/11/2022 17:45, Kate B wrote:
> On 23/11/2022 16:49, Jenny M Benson wrote:
>> That I mean is, say a person is prone to experiencing headaches.  They
>> have a headache, they take a painkiller or 2 and the pain goes away.
>> But what if they take a painkiller or 2 when they don't actually have
>> a headache but are/were going to have one 20 minutes later (although
>> they don't know it?)  Would they not have the headache pain in 20
>> minutes because they'd already taken the painkillers before it started?
>
> Any headache is caused by something - neck tension, squinting,
> dehydration, brain tumour. A painkiller doesn't address the cause but
> anaesthetises the nerve endings so you don't feel pain. If you take the
> painkiller after the causal circumstances are in place but before they
> have caused the headache then you won't get the headache because the
> analgesic stops the nerve endings reacting. As I understand it, anyway.
>

True for some painkillers, but not all. if the pain is the result of an
insult (in the medical sense) to which the body is over-reacting with a
protective inflammation then a non-steroidal anti-inflamatory drug
(NSAID), of which ibuprofen is the most widely used, works by reducing
the inflamation. If the NSAID is washing around in the system before the
insult (for example a grumbling knee which can be set off by twisting it
while walking), then the painkilling effect will be there. It won't last
as long or perhaps be as strong.

john

[Sam Plusnet]

Thank you for that phrase "grumbling knee". Unfortunately, I have
reason to remember and use it in future.
Q: Should I mumble a copyright disclaimer each time I use it?

--
Sam Plusnet

[John Ashby]

I can make it public domain for you.

As opposed to pubic domain, where a knee can do more than grumble.

john

[Joe Kerr]

Pain isn't a 'thing' in the body that the painkiller attacks like an
antibody and a virus, it is the brain and nervous system responding to
something that it thinks you should know about. You can reduce the pain
by removing whatever is triggering the nerves (if appropriate) or use
painkillers to block the brain from receiving or responding to the nerve
signal. Over the counter painkillers are required to reach peak efficacy
in under 40 minutes and are generally most effective 30 - 40 minutes
after taking them. Doses of painkiller are generally not supposed to be
taken more frequently than every 4 - 6 hours to avoid the risk of the
drugs building up in the body and leading to an overdose - which can be
bad, very bad so it is reasonable to assume that the painkiller will be
effective to a reducing extent from that peak moment until a second dose
is allowed. (Some prescription versions may be double strength, so check
the label for details.)

If the brain detects a sufficiently severe pain it seems to take the
approach of "OK, I've got the message. I know there is a problem. You
can stop now." and switches off leaving you knowing that you are in pain
but not actually feeling it until things have subsided. That's my
experience, anyway. I don't know whether that shutdown only relates to
the original pain or whether it will block any other pains incurred
shortly afterwards. I've never been stupid enough to test it.

--
Ric

[Kate B]

That latter effect hasn't been my experience. It's true that some acute
pains - a broken wrist, post-operative pain, a stubbed toe - may not
last very long in their really acute phase. But severe pain can
certainly last long enough to drive you distracted and in need of soem
serious pain relief.

I get the thing about pain being the body's need to tell you something's
wrong. To which my answer is, yes, noted, NOTED, now kindly stop. But
this doesn't always, or even often, happen.


--
Kate B

[Joe Kerr]

Those are, in my experience, very undesirable and annoying but not
serious pain. Try ripping out a toenail. I had a very small fraction of
a second of "@#@# this hurts!", followed by about 20 minutes of, "Ok, I
know it hurts but I can't feel it.", another 20 minutes or so of
subsiding throbbing and 45 minutes of mopping blood out of the carpet. I
don't recommend it as a cure for a headache.

>
> I get the thing about pain being the body's need to tell you something's
> wrong. To which my answer is, yes, noted, NOTED, now kindly stop. But
> this doesn't always, or even often, happen.
>
>


--

Ric

[Penny]

On Wed, 23 Nov 2022 22:02:53 +0000, Joe Kerr <joe_...@cheerful.com> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

>If the brain detects a sufficiently severe pain it seems to take the
>approach of "OK, I've got the message. I know there is a problem. You
>can stop now." and switches off leaving you knowing that you are in pain
>but not actually feeling it until things have subsided. That's my
>experience, anyway. I don't know whether that shutdown only relates to
>the original pain or whether it will block any other pains incurred
>shortly afterwards. I've never been stupid enough to test it.

I have various tricks for persuading pain to shut up. Not always
successful. Some acute pain (like toothache) can be distracted, at least
for a while, by deliberately pinching another area which is not actually
inflamed or injured.

OTOH, my arthritic hips hurt a lot first thing in the morning at the
moment. They wake me up, and make it extremely painful to either stay in
bed or move around. Experience tells me the only way to stop them hurting
is to continue moving around - eventually I stop saying 'ow' at every step
and they are ok for the rest of the day.
--
Penny
Annoyed by The Archers since 1959

[Sam Plusnet]

On 23-Nov-22 21:32, John Ashby wrote:
> On 23/11/2022 20:47, Sam Plusnet wrote:
>> On 23-Nov-22 19:37, John Ashby wrote:
>>> On 23/11/2022 17:45, Kate B wrote:
>>>> On 23/11/2022 16:49, Jenny M Benson wrote:
>>>>> That I mean is, say a person is prone to experiencing headaches.

In the words of the late Lesley Phillips:

"Oh! Nasty!"

--
Sam Plusnet

[Sid Nuncius]

On 23/11/2022 20:47, Sam Plusnet wrote:

> Thank you for that phrase "grumbling knee".  Unfortunately, I have
> reason to remember and use it in future.
> Q: Should I mumble a copyright disclaimer each time I use it?

Probably wise. Grumbling Knee's second album may have been rubbish, but
it's still in copyright.

--
Sid
(Make sure Matron is away when you reply)

[Chris J Dixon]

Joe Kerr wrote:

>Pain isn't a 'thing' in the body that the painkiller attacks like an
>antibody and a virus, it is the brain and nervous system responding to
>something that it thinks you should know about. You can reduce the pain
>by removing whatever is triggering the nerves (if appropriate) or use
>painkillers to block the brain from receiving or responding to the nerve
>signal. Over the counter painkillers are required to reach peak efficacy
>in under 40 minutes and are generally most effective 30 - 40 minutes
>after taking them.

What I have found interesting, having viewed many of the
programmes about ambulance operations, is that intravenous
Paracetamol, a drug that in tablet form I would not have classed
as powerful, appears to be strong and fast acting, and often the
first choice for quite severe pain.

Chris.
--
Chris J Dixon Nottingham
'48/33 M B+ G++ A L(-) I S-- CH0(--)(p) Ar- T+ H0 ?Q
ch...@cdixon.me.uk @ChrisJDixon1
Plant amazing Acers.

[Mike McMillan]

Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
> Joe Kerr wrote:
>
>> Pain isn't a 'thing' in the body that the painkiller attacks like an
>> antibody and a virus, it is the brain and nervous system responding to
>> something that it thinks you should know about. You can reduce the pain
>> by removing whatever is triggering the nerves (if appropriate) or use
>> painkillers to block the brain from receiving or responding to the nerve
>> signal. Over the counter painkillers are required to reach peak efficacy
>> in under 40 minutes and are generally most effective 30 - 40 minutes
>> after taking them.
>
> What I have found interesting, having viewed many of the
> programmes about ambulance operations, is that intravenous
> Paracetamol, a drug that in tablet form I would not have classed
> as powerful, appears to be strong and fast acting, and often the
> first choice for quite severe pain.
>
> Chris.

Well, it is a lot better than using Aspirin in the jungle …. Because the
parrots eat ‘em all. [The old ones are the best ones…]

--
Toodle Pip, Mike McMillan

[Linda Fox]

Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk> wrote:
>

> What I have found interesting, having viewed many of the
> programmes about ambulance operations, is that intravenous
> Paracetamol, a drug that in tablet form I would not have classed
> as powerful, appears to be strong and fast acting, and often the
> first choice for quite severe pain.

Reading through the umra archives I found a thread all about my corneal
graft, in which I'd written:

...and really only realised
what was going on when I heard a voice saying "she's been given some
paracetamol" and I thought "paracetamol? That's what I take for
headaches. Parabloodycetamol??? I go to visit Robin whenever he's just
had an op and he's getting bloomin' _morphine_, that puts me in my
place, dunnit?"

But I agree, it's pretty powerful; we always tended to go for co-codamol
thinking the addition of the codeine would do the trick faster, but I think
the bulk of the analgesia really comes from the paracetamol.

My GP recommended taking painkillers before going for a walk, as I was
complaining that I couldn't walk far without my back hurting. I've never
really tried it.
--
Linda ff

[Nick Odell]

On Thu, 24 Nov 2022 08:39:56 +0000, Chris J Dixon <ch...@cdixon.me.uk>
wrote:

>Joe Kerr wrote:
>
>>Pain isn't a 'thing' in the body that the painkiller attacks like an
>>antibody and a virus, it is the brain and nervous system responding to
>>something that it thinks you should know about. You can reduce the pain
>>by removing whatever is triggering the nerves (if appropriate) or use
>>painkillers to block the brain from receiving or responding to the nerve
>>signal. Over the counter painkillers are required to reach peak efficacy
>>in under 40 minutes and are generally most effective 30 - 40 minutes
>>after taking them.
>
>What I have found interesting, having viewed many of the
>programmes about ambulance operations, is that intravenous
>Paracetamol, a drug that in tablet form I would not have classed
>as powerful, appears to be strong and fast acting, and often the
>first choice for quite severe pain.
>

I think it depends on the cause of the pain. For
arthritic/inflammatory type pain I tend to use different types of
NSAID depending on the intensity and duration and if I know in advance
that I'm going to punish my joints then I tend to load up my
bloodstream with the appropriate NSAID in preparation and it helps. I
find Paracetamol more effective for non-inflammatory pain - and even
more effective as the main ingredient in a black-and-white darkroom
developer - but I digress.

IMO Aspirin is good for muscle pain but makes gouty pain even worse so
Etoricoxib seems to work best for me for that. Depending on the
severity and the situation for arthritic pain I tend to go from
Ibuprofen through Naproxen to Etoricoxib.

Nick
--
Apologies for the Gillivery.
Apologies if I'm repeating remarks already made in this thread because
I confess that I haven't read to the end before posting. Sorry.

[BrritSki]

On 08/12/2022 00:30, Nick Odell wrote:
>
> IMO Aspirin is good for muscle pain but makes gouty pain even worse so
> Etoricoxib seems to work best for me for that.

Have you tried colchicine for gout ? I'm pretty sure you could just get
it at the chemist in Italy,but seems it's a prescription drug here.

I don;t suffer from gout anymore as I am on a daily allopurinol tablet..

[Penny]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 08:33:00 +0000, BrritSki <rtilbury...@gmail.com> a
gribouillé dans la poussière...

Ray found colchicine very good for his gout - it didn't stop the tophus but
did stop the pain. The GP switched him to it when other drugs weren't
helping. Apparently it's made from the bulbs of autumn crocus (saffron),
was used in ancient Egypt 3,500 years ago and is quite toxic at doses even
slightly higher than recommended.

[Mike McMillan]

Goes well in rice though;-)))

[Nick Odell]

On Thu, 8 Dec 2022 08:33:00 +0000, BrritSki

Fortunately I don't suffer from chronic gout just occasional acute
attacks and they are usually zapped within a few days with the
Etoricoxib

Nick

[BrritSki]

Really painful episodes were thankfully rare for me but I could feel it
niggling away a lot of the time. When it did flare up colchicine acted
in hours rather than days... YgoutMV