Arcam Av50 vs Cyrus
mac...@vtech.demon.co.uk
Just a follow up to my earlier post. On Saturday I auditioned the Arcam
Av50 and the Cyrus AV Master with 2 XPAs Power Amps. 1st up was the
Av50, which sounded OK, to be honest I was expecting more - perhaps my
expectations were too high. Onto the Av Master, very nice sound - seemed
to seperate individual sounds more than the Arcam. This wasn't
supprising considering the AV50 was 700UKP and the Cyrus combo was
1300UKP. Straight stereo was more of the same, with the Cyrus again
sounding less muddled than the AV50. So which one did I buy? Neither! I
felt that for 700UKP I should expect a better sound than the AV50
delivered, however once I've listened to a few more amps in the 700UKP
price band perhaps this view will change. The Cryus was very nice, but
for the money was missing a few key features, namely no inputs for a
Dolby Digital decoder and only 4 source inputs available. The salesman
explained that to get enough inputs for my existing kit I would need to
replace one of the XPA's with a Cyrus integrated amp (and before I know
it I've spent twice the cost of the AV50). So I walked out the shop
empty handed, a very hard thing to do. On Sunday I went down to Hyper
Hifi in Barking, the salesman there was very dimissive of the AV50 and
steered me into the direction of an AMC AV81+ Pro- logic decoder and a
couple of AMC power amps. The cost of this weighed in at 700UKP,
unfortunatly they didn't have any facilities to demo the kit - so again I
left empty handed. I've not heard of AMC before, anyone got any views?
He also had a display THX version of the AMC gear, for only 100UKP more -
would the THX be wasted if I ran it through non THX speakers? So the
search goes on, I'm planning to go to a different shop soon that has a
decent demo room to pit tht AV50 against one or two other amps in that
price range - any suggestions? One important point is that I want good
stereo performance as well as the surround sound. Any help would be
greatly appricated as I want to spend some cash!!!
TIA
Mark Mac
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jo...@arcam.co.uk
This is a follow up to Mark Maciver's post of 22/12/97.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with us so far. It isn't always easy
to find out everything you want to know, especially when auditioning
complex AV systems that also have to double as top rate stereo systems.
When checking out the AV 50 next time, please also check it out with an
added power amplifier in bi-amp mode. Hearing is believing - we've done
literally dozens of public demos of this and the audience always hears
what is happening. The 8P at £250 makes the overall sound obviously
better and the 9P at £400 is better still. Of course that puts up the
price and compexity of the system but, if funds are tight , the power amp
can always be added a bit later as a plug and play upgrade. At least you
know where you can go in the future to improve things.
If you get the opportunity, try also to audition our new Alpha 10 amp.
About half of our dealers have this now. It costs around £799 and is damn
good. I am using it at home with the Xeta 2 A/V processor/amplifier (one
of the pleasures of being in the business is you get to try out all the
latest stuff) and the combination does everything you need in for a
combined stereo/home cinema sysytem. If that amp seems a bit expensive
try the Alpha 9 / Xeta 2 combo. BTW both these amps have a special AV
input mode which presets the gain of the integrated amp (used for the
front L and R speakers) when using an AV source. It can be very
irritating if your system doesn't do this.
Contact Steve Reichert (our UK sales manager - ste...@arcam.co.uk)or me
and we'll try to put anyone interested in such demos in touch with a
local dealer carrying all the necessary equipment. Comparative AV demos
can be quite complex to organise so it is well worth doing this. BTW
Christmas is not the best time for full demos either as the dealers tend
to get a bit rushed. So be patient - we definitely want your money, but
for the right reasons :-)
It is not appropriate for me to comment on the performance of the AMC
equipment your were offered . However you should know that in the UK this
is a "house" brand imported directly and sold by a small number of
dealers, including the one you visited.
Good luck in your search.
John Dawson (MD, Arcam)
G D FRASER
Dont dismiss the AV50 on the basis of one audition. Try and hear it at another
dealer. Particularily one that doesn't stock any similair priced amps. This may
seem strange but when a shop has one 700 pound av amp it stands or falls on
it's ability to get the very best performance from the product.
Consequently you will find that not all shops are as competent as each other at
setting up their dem equipment. Then, once you have heard the best sound for
your money. Be it Arcam or not, don't go to the shop that was the cheapest and
get a deal. Go to the shop that made the best sound. After all, that is what
you are paying for, the shops expertise in setting up the system.
Merry Christmas,
Gordon
Liam McCauley
jo...@arcam.co.uk wrote:
>
> This is a follow up to Mark Maciver's post of 22/12/97.
>
> Thanks for sharing your experiences with us so far.
Yes, thanks Mark.
[snip]
>
> When checking out the AV 50 next time, please also check it out with an
> added power amplifier in bi-amp mode. Hearing is believing - we've done
> literally dozens of public demos of this and the audience always hears
> what is happening.
[snip]
I recently bought an AV50, and am considering adding an 8/9/10P at some
point in the future (unfortunately my current speakers aren't bi-wire/amp
able - unless anyone knows if Kef Coda 9's can be upgraded).
Can anyone back up John's statement about the benefit of adding a power
amp to bi-amp an AV50 (or an Arcam Alpha 8 amp)? Of course, I would
audition before buying, but I find it useful and interesting to listen
to other people's experiences.
Cheers,
Liam
--
Liam.M...@NOSPAM.Syntegra.bt.co.uk
Please remove the "NOSPAM" from my address before replying
Kieran Moore
Hi,
I'm also interested in purchasing an AV50 shortly after Xmas, along with
either an Alpha 8 or 9 CD, and an Alpha 8 Tuner. I would be using the system
in Hi-Fi mode with my Pro-Ac Studio 1 speakers, and in Home-Cinema mode with
my spare Bose Acoustimass (you know 2xSatellites & Sub-Woofer type thing)
speakers plus a.n.other centre speaker and my new JVC AW32EK
something-or-other widescreen TV. I've got a few queries here:
1) None of my speakers are bi-wirable so I guess the addition of a power amp
serves no purpose? This being the case, then what am I losing out on... This
is important because I dearly love my Pro-Acs (pretentious fart) and won't
change them for anything.
2) Is the conversion of a line-level input to a legacy phono input on the
AV50 a dealer or manufacturer fit options, and is it reversible, for the day
when my Linn gets consigned to the attic along with my old 286 & 386
computers...I don't know what happened to my Osborne Z80 'portable'... must
have got mistaken for a sewing machine and been thrown out<g>!
3) A friend of mine has an old(ish) Alpha CD - Can't remember which model
number. However, it gets very upset unless his CD's are spanking clean,
basically 'mistracking'. Is this an individual problem or an inherent
'feature'?
3) Do Arcam have any plans to get involved in DVD hardware?
Thanks for the time, and apologies for veering slightly from the home-cinema
theme! Incidentally, my existing system includes an old Cyrus II amp, so
perhaps there is some continuity after all<g>!
Regards,
Kieran
Hertford, UK
ps Why isn't the Arcam WWW site accessible?
geo...@arcam.co.uk
In article <67rj98$ops$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>,
"Kieran Moore" <kieran...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I'm also interested in purchasing an AV50 shortly after Xmas, along with
> either an Alpha 8 or 9 CD, and an Alpha 8 Tuner. I would be using the system
> in Hi-Fi mode with my Pro-Ac Studio 1 speakers, and in Home-Cinema mode with
> my spare Bose Acoustimass (you know 2xSatellites & Sub-Woofer type thing)
> speakers plus a.n.other centre speaker and my new JVC AW32EK
> something-or-other widescreen TV. I've got a few queries here:
This should sound fine! I personaly use the AV50 and Alpha 10P power amp
feeding Pro-Ac Studio 150's (Bi-amp mode front L&R) and the pro-logic
steering is wonderful (but then I am biased!).
>
> 1) None of my speakers are bi-wirable so I guess the addition of a power amp
> serves no purpose? This being the case, then what am I losing out on... This
> is important because I dearly love my Pro-Acs (pretentious fart) and won't
> change them for anything.
>
You are correct in assuming that you cannot bi-amp with non-biwirable
speakers, but adding a seperate power amp for front L&R will still
improve the pro-logic and stereo sound. This is because the power amp
stages for the front L&R are the most power hungry parts of the
intergrated amplifier. If these are not used then the power supply for
the rest of the amplifier is on idle giving a much "cleaner" supply to
the rest of the amplifier (think small car with big engine!)
> 2) Is the conversion of a line-level input to a legacy phono input on the
> AV50 a dealer or manufacturer fit options, and is it reversible, for the day
> when my Linn gets consigned to the attic along with my old 286 & 386
> computers...I don't know what happened to my Osborne Z80 'portable'... must
> have got mistaken for a sewing machine and been thrown out<g>!
>
I am not familiar with the "Legacy" phono stage mod but you can certainly
use an outboard phono stage with the AV50 (it even has a grounding post
on the back plate!).
> 3) A friend of mine has an old(ish) Alpha CD - Can't remember which model
> number. However, it gets very upset unless his CD's are spanking clean,
> basically 'mistracking'. Is this an individual problem or an inherent
> 'feature'?
>
It sounds as though the CD mechanism itself has developed a fault. If it
is a few years old then it is probably a Philips unit which was the
prefered unit at the time. We now use all Sony mechs (Alpha 7/8/8SE/9
models) which are alarmingly reliable. Anyway, we can fix it! Ask your
friend to contact us on 01223 203203 (customer services direct line) and
we wwill be pleased to look at it.
> 3) Do Arcam have any plans to get involved in DVD hardware?
>
Yes, but not yet!
The whole situation is still too fluid for us to commit to as yet but as
soon as is sensible it is likely we will launch product in some form.
> Thanks for the time, and apologies for veering slightly from the home-cinema
> theme! Incidentally, my existing system includes an old Cyrus II amp, so
> perhaps there is some continuity after all<g>!
>
> Regards,
>
> Kieran
> Hertford, UK
> ps Why isn't the Arcam WWW site accessible?
Try mid January at http://www.arcam.co.uk, it has taken longer than we
expected to get the site up and running so sorry for the delay!
Kind regards,
GEOFF MEADS
Arcam Product Specialist
Kieran Moore
geo...@arcam.co.uk wrote in message <883390241...@dejanews.com>...
>
>You are correct in assuming that you cannot bi-amp with non-biwirable
>speakers, but adding a seperate power amp for front L&R will still
>improve the pro-logic and stereo sound. This is because the power amp
>stages for the front L&R are the most power hungry parts of the
>intergrated amplifier. If these are not used then the power supply for
>the rest of the amplifier is on idle giving a much "cleaner" supply to
>the rest of the amplifier (think small car with big engine!)
>
Forgive me for being thick, but how exactly does this work? I'm interested
in getting the best
possible (within reason!) pure stereo sound from CD source, so I will
'audition' this option, but
a little more info would be greatly appreciated, particularly with regard to
socketry/connections!
>
>I am not familiar with the "Legacy" phono stage mod but you can certainly
>use an outboard phono stage with the AV50 (it even has a grounding post
>on the back plate!).
>
Ooops. I think I introduces some confusiion here! On the AV50 page of the
Arcam
brochure it mentions '...One line input can optionally be converted to a MM
phono
cartridge input...'. I just wondered whether it was dealer doable, and
whether the
line input could be reclaimed at a later stage.
>> 3) A friend of mine has an old(ish) Alpha CD - Can't remember which model
>> number. However, it gets very upset unless his CD's are spanking clean,
>> basically 'mistracking'. Is this an individual problem or an inherent
>> 'feature'?
>>
>
>It sounds as though the CD mechanism itself has developed a fault. If it
>is a few years old then it is probably a Philips unit which was the
>prefered unit at the time. We now use all Sony mechs (Alpha 7/8/8SE/9
>models) which are alarmingly reliable. Anyway, we can fix it! Ask your
>friend to contact us on 01223 203203 (customer services direct line) and
>we wwill be pleased to look at it.
>
Thanks very much for this. I've passed on the info! It's nice to know it
doesn't all
end when the dealer/Arcam gets the money from the punter, and, partly for
this reason, you'll be
getting mine shortly!
Regards,
Kieran
Hertford, UK
geo...@arcam.co.uk
In article <68aopt$lje$1...@plug.news.pipex.net>,
"Kieran Moore" <kieran...@dial.pipex.com> wrote:
>
>
> geo...@arcam.co.uk wrote in message <883390241...@dejanews.com>...
> >
> >You are correct in assuming that you cannot bi-amp with non-biwirable
> >speakers, but adding a seperate power amp for front L&R will still
> >improve the pro-logic and stereo sound. This is because the power amp
> >stages for the front L&R are the most power hungry parts of the
> >intergrated amplifier. If these are not used then the power supply for
> >the rest of the amplifier is on idle giving a much "cleaner" supply to
> >the rest of the amplifier (think small car with big engine!)
> >
> Forgive me for being thick, but how exactly does this work? I'm interested
> in getting the best
> possible (within reason!) pure stereo sound from CD source, so I will
> 'audition' this option, but
> a little more info would be greatly appreciated, particularly with regard to
> socketry/connections!
>
Firstly take a stereo interconnect (a good one pref. AudioQuest!) and
connect the Front L&R pre-amp outputs to the power amp inputs of the
seperate power amp.
This forms a "Y" connection with the single end connected to the pre-amp
outputs on the front L&R chanels of the AV50 and the other two ends feed
both the power amps inside the AV50 for front L&R and the seperate
External power amps.
All we need to do now is connect the speakers!
We now connect the tweeters (HF) of the speakers to the power amp outputs
(speaker connections) on the AV50 and the woofers (LF) to the external
poweramp. Now the HF signal currents are being driven by the AV50 and the
LF currents by the external poweramp. ALL this is duplicated for left and
right of course.
BTW, any local UK ARCAM dealer can install it for you if you wish!
> >
> >I am not familiar with the "Legacy" phono stage mod but you can certainly
> >use an outboard phono stage with the AV50 (it even has a grounding post
> >on the back plate!).
> >
> Ooops. I think I introduces some confusiion here! On the AV50 page of the
> Arcam
> brochure it mentions '...One line input can optionally be converted to a MM
> phono
> cartridge input...'. I just wondered whether it was dealer doable, and
> whether the
> line input could be reclaimed at a later stage.
>
Ah! now I understand!
Yes there is a connector inside the AV50 for fitting a phono board but at
this time one does not exist. At the point of design we were unsure how
many customers of this unit would require a phono stage and all
indications to this day point to there being not that many.
If enough demand is shown for a phono stage then we will do one. Either
way it will be a dealer fit and reversable!
> >> 3) A friend of mine has an old(ish) Alpha CD - Can't remember which model
> >> number. However, it gets very upset unless his CD's are spanking clean,
> >> basically 'mistracking'. Is this an individual problem or an inherent
> >> 'feature'?
> >>
> >
> >It sounds as though the CD mechanism itself has developed a fault. If it
> >is a few years old then it is probably a Philips unit which was the
> >prefered unit at the time. We now use all Sony mechs (Alpha 7/8/8SE/9
> >models) which are alarmingly reliable. Anyway, we can fix it! Ask your
> >friend to contact us on 01223 203203 (customer services direct line) and
> >we wwill be pleased to look at it.
> >
> Thanks very much for this. I've passed on the info! It's nice to know it
> doesn't all
> end when the dealer/Arcam gets the money from the punter, and, partly for
> this reason, you'll be
> getting mine shortly!
>
> Regards,
>
> Kieran
> Hertford, UK
Great to hear that our commitment to customer support is appriciated, we
can still service all our electronic products back to our very first
amplifier!
Enjoy your ARCAM!
Kieran Moore
Geoff,
Thanks for the info.
I'm going to KJ West One next weekend to hear various bits of Arcam kit,
including the 9 & 9P amps, with a view to buying a complete set up sans
speakers...
Unfortunately, when I mentioned I wanted to listen to the AV50 I got a
"there might be a problem there, but let's see how we go". - I didn't
enquire further, but is there a supply problem or whatever?
Also, given the lack of phono input on the AV50, I may be 'forced' to
partner a 9 amp with a Xeta 2. What's the sound quality like in terms of
AV50 Vs 9 on Hi-Fi? Is an AV50 better than a 9/Xeta 2?
Oh, finally, I have seen the new Alpha 10 amp, but don't know anything about
it, and it's not in the brochures I've seen. Any more info?
Regards,
Kiern