compaq dlp projector
Mark Rushton
of these or know if they are any good for home cinema?
--
Mark Rushton
Nigel Ince
scan, very queit & lamps last fro 5000 hours.
Nige
"Mark Rushton" <Mark.R...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Mark Rushton
sony lcd a while back and was disappointed with the grey looking blacks and
it had a green tinge on part of the screen.
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Mark Rushton
"Nigel Ince" <nigel.inceSHITS...@btinternet.com> wrote in
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Nigel Ince
spectrum patterns, also DLP uses the same way of getting an image onto the
screen i believe so the blacks may just be the same, they where on the ones
i saw.
Also i wouldnt buy anything from PC World - they are a bunch of bastards,
any probs, dont want to know & no demo facility.
Nige
"Mark Rushton" <Mark.R...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Mark Rushton
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Mark Rushton
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Nigel Ince
don't like 4:3 in the middle
Nige
"Mark Rushton" <Mark.R...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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Gary Lightfoot
"Mark Rushton" <Mark.R...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
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> have one of these or know if they are any good for home cinema?
What's the model?
I've got an old Davis DLS8 (DLP) projector which is 4:3 and SVGA (800
x 600). I use a computer to with a DVD player built in (Radeon
graphics card) and the picture is excellent if you go this route. You
don't need to worry about widescreen as the computer does all
the scaling for you.
Most pjs have crap internal scalers and don't look particularly good
when fed via a standard DVD player. Even progressive scan players
costing much more cannot compete with a computer which will produce a
progressive inmage via the vga output and will scale it to the size
and ratio you want. You can build one for round £300+
The advantage of a stand alone player is ease of use. If you don't
like messing with computers then forget this method. Computers can be
a pain until you get a good working setup. You don't have this problem
with an out of the box player.
The advantages of DLP over LCD (IIRC) are:
Better black levels.
Less screen door
no green push or fog (not all LCDs have this)
No dead pixels, though rarely you may get a dodgy mirror.
Disadvantages:
Rainbow effect (if you're able to see it that is, many aren't).
Having said that, I don't think that black level is really an
issue, as most cinemas don't have very good black levels either. My
projector produces better blacks than my local Warner cinema, so I
don't worry about it. I don't notice that the blacks are actualy dark
grey as it seems to relative anyway. I watch a lot of sci fi and never
think that space is anything other than black.
Screen door is only noticable if you sit too close. This is more of an
issue with LCD, but if the screen isn't too big, and you don't sit too
close, that doesn't become an issue either.
The Panasonic has widescreen ratio of 848 to 480 which is perfect for
NTSC anamorphic derived sources, and will downscale Pal stuff as well,
albeit at a loss of resolution. not a major factor to be honest
though.
All in all, most of these 'issues' arent really that obvious on a good
machine. Side by side you'll hardly notice a lot of difference, and
the best advice is to demo the machine before you buy. Particularly,
demo the machine you do buy so that you can see any dead pixels or
other problems, and this prevents a return. Only you know what is good
to your eyes.
Go to: www.avsforum.com and do lots of reading in the DLP/LCD/DILA
forum, and the HTPC forum. do a search for the Panasonic as there has
been a lot of talk about it there recently. Conclusion was that its a
good machine but needs an HTPC for best results. see the thread here:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114257
What size and kind of screen will you be using? I built an 84" x
47.25" screen for £28 and it has a gain of about 1 to 1.3. Perfect for
my pj which only has about 800lumens. see my home page to see what it
looks like. The screen images are old now, and I have a far better
image now that I've upgraded the computer to a Radeon. I'm hoping to
update the pics soon now that I seem to be getting a bit more time to
do these things.
HTH
Gary.
Stewart Pinkerton
>yep seen the web site. But would the contrast be better on the dlp. I had a
>sony lcd a while back and was disappointed with the grey looking blacks and
>it had a green tinge on part of the screen.
Contrast will be *much* better with a DLP projector, but try it first
to see if you are sensitive to the 'rainbow' effect on high-contrast
edges in fast-moving scenes. Unless of course you have the income to
support a three-chip DLP! :-)
--
Stewart Pinkerton | Music is art, audio is engineering
Stewart Pinkerton
>The panny is bloody superb matey, I dont like DLP as i suffer probs with
>spectrum patterns, also DLP uses the same way of getting an image onto the
>screen i believe so the blacks may just be the same, they where on the ones
>i saw.
Excuse me? DLP is *fundamentally* different from LCD, it's reflective
rather than transmissive, just for starters. And the contrast ratio is
*much* better.
ViNNY
news:3c780919...@news.freeserve.net...
> "Nigel Ince" <nigel.inceSHITS...@btinternet.com> writes:
>
> >The panny is bloody superb matey, I dont like DLP as i suffer probs with
> >spectrum patterns, also DLP uses the same way of getting an image onto
the
> >screen i believe so the blacks may just be the same, they where on the
ones
> >i saw.
>
> Excuse me? DLP is *fundamentally* different from LCD, it's reflective
> rather than transmissive, just for starters. And the contrast ratio is
> *much* better.
Blacks on my mate's Plus U3-1080 (LT150 clone) are about the same as my
Panny AE100. The rainbow effect is *awful*, though, which is why I went the
LCD way.
-Vin
Nigel Ince
"Stewart Pinkerton" <ste...@pinkertons.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
news:3c780919...@news.freeserve.net...
>
> >The panny is bloody superb matey, I dont like DLP as i suffer probs with
> >spectrum patterns, also DLP uses the same way of getting an image onto
the
> >screen i believe so the blacks may just be the same, they where on the
ones
> >i saw.
>
> Excuse me? DLP is *fundamentally* different from LCD, it's reflective
> rather than transmissive, just for starters. And the contrast ratio is
> *much* better.
Calm down Stew, I said 'I believe' didn't say it was cast in stone !!!!
Still reqs a lamp though & by that fundamental fact will never produce a
true black as a CRT would ??
Nige
ViNNY
Aye... but film projection is also lamp based. So CRT owners are not seeing
a "film like" picture ;-)
-Vin
Stewart Pinkerton
>
>"Stewart Pinkerton" <ste...@pinkertons.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:3c780919...@news.freeserve.net...
>> "Nigel Ince" <nigel.inceSHITS...@btinternet.com> writes:
>>
>> >The panny is bloody superb matey, I dont like DLP as i suffer probs with
>> >spectrum patterns, also DLP uses the same way of getting an image onto the
>> >screen i believe so the blacks may just be the same, they where on the ones
>> >i saw.
>>
>> Excuse me? DLP is *fundamentally* different from LCD, it's reflective
>> rather than transmissive, just for starters. And the contrast ratio is
>> *much* better.
>
>Calm down Stew, I said 'I believe' didn't say it was cast in stone !!!!
Actually, you said that DLP *is* the same as LCD in principle, which
it isn't.
>Still reqs a lamp though & by that fundamental fact will never produce a
>true black as a CRT would ??
Not true. Professional DLP chips have greatly superior light trapping
around the micromirrors, and note that when you are not reflecting
light off a mirror, then the screen image *is* a true black. A
transmissive medium like LCD can probably not ever generate a true
black (of course, that also lets film out!), but a reflective system
like DLP certainly can, indeed the best digital cinemas are producing
pictures with higher contrast than you'll ever achieve from a
CRT-based system, simply because of the limited peak brightness
avilable from CRTs combined with back-scatter onto the screen from the
room.
Try even a domestic three-chip solution such as the Runco VX-3c on a
GreyHawk screen and you'll see that CRT is not the ultimate tool for a
real-world high-contrast image - if you have a large wedge!
As others have noted, the only real weaknes of the lower cost
single-chip DLPs is the 'rainbow' effect, to which some are
significantly more sensitive than others. The Sim2 HT200DM seems to
have overcome that for most people.
ViNNY
And is 3 times the price of a totally rainbow-free LCD :)
-Vin
Stewart Pinkerton
>"Stewart Pinkerton" <ste...@pinkertons.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:3c789eff...@news.freeserve.net...
>> As others have noted, the only real weaknes of the lower cost
>> single-chip DLPs is the 'rainbow' effect, to which some are
>> significantly more sensitive than others. The Sim2 HT200DM seems to
>> have overcome that for most people.
>
>And is 3 times the price of a totally rainbow-free LCD :)
If you like to live in a misty world of greys, LCD is just fine....
ViNNY
Have you seen an LCD projector made in the last year or so? I'll grant you
that older generations of LCD models were *awful* for black, but the latest
batch (Sanyo, Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba) of home-user aimed LCD projectors
are massively improved.
-Vin
Gary Lightfoot
"ViNNY" <vi...@vinnyworld.zzn.com> wrote in message
news:a5au46$9fr$0...@dosa.alt.net...
> Have you seen an LCD projector made in the last year or so? I'll
> grant you that older generations of LCD models were *awful*
> for black, but the latest batch (Sanyo, Sony, Panasonic,
> Toshiba) of home-user aimed LCD projectors
> are massively improved.
That's why I don't think that there's really an aweful lot in it
between DLP and LCD these days. Contrast ratio was always better with
DLP, but I don't think that's much of an issue with out-of-the-box pjs
these days.
For me, black level isn't an issue due to that being tha nature of
front projection - including the likes of proffessional cinemas. CRT
enthusiasts seem to use it as a picking point to say their pj is
better than the digital ones, but it isn't something that would make
me choose between the different types of pj. If black level was an
issue who'd pay to go to the cinema? :O)
I saw a Sony 400q and a Davis DLP when I first went to see a pj demo.
there wasn't much in it at all from the seating position, at least,
not that I could tell. Maybe after prolonged viewing I may have picked
out some differences, but the only things that made me choose were
image throw (the Sony had to be further back) and screen door - but
this was only noticeable to me if I went closer up to the image than
normal. It was more noticeable on the Sony than the Davis.
If LCD or DLP were as bad as some would make us believe due to their
own 'negative' elements, then no-one would buy them. As it is, both
types are selling well so that proves the point. You just have to be
aware of the dead pixel/screen door/green push/rainbow etc and decide
if the image you see is good for you.
Gary.
--
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Stewart Pinkerton
>"Stewart Pinkerton" <ste...@pinkertons.fsnet.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:3c78dfdf...@news.freeserve.net...
>> If you like to live in a misty world of greys, LCD is just fine....
>
>Have you seen an LCD projector made in the last year or so? I'll grant you
>that older generations of LCD models were *awful* for black, but the latest
>batch (Sanyo, Sony, Panasonic, Toshiba) of home-user aimed LCD projectors
>are massively improved.
The Sony VW10HT is very good, and has great resolution, but still
noticeably inferior in contrast to the DLP units I've seen.
ViNNY
Ultimately, it comes down to which sacrifice you're prepared to make: loss
in black level or the rainbow effect. I demo'ed both and found DLP
projectors in my price range (under Ł3k) extremely fatiguing - I get
headaches after about an hour of viewing - and the rainbows were distracting
me from actually watching the film. I'm not doubting that the top end DLP
projectors are excellent - but for the price of the Sharp 9000 or the Sim2
HT300, I could get a second hand 8" CRT professionally installed.
-Vin
Liam
The Sanyo PLV30 is a *lot* better than the Sony you mention (for contrast)
and subjectively not too far from the DLP units (Sim2 HT200) despite the
numbers (400 vs 700). The last time I saw them I also saw a Cine7 CRT and
the picture just looked gorgeous. Almost as good as the CineMax (and £20k
cheaper) to an untrained eye like mine. Both LCD & DLP are coming on in
leaps & bounds, though.
Cheers,
Liam
Stewart Pinkerton
>Ultimately, it comes down to which sacrifice you're prepared to make: loss
>in black level or the rainbow effect. I demo'ed both and found DLP
>projectors in my price range (under Ł3k) extremely fatiguing - I get
>headaches after about an hour of viewing - and the rainbows were distracting
>me from actually watching the film. I'm not doubting that the top end DLP
>projectors are excellent - but for the price of the Sharp 9000 or the Sim2
>HT300, I could get a second hand 8" CRT professionally installed.
Yup, and you'd be constrained to a totally blacked-out room. If you
can live with that, then CRTs are certainly for you. If not.......
ViNNY
> "ViNNY" <vi...@vinnyworld.zzn.com> writes:
>
> >Ultimately, it comes down to which sacrifice you're prepared to make:
loss
> >in black level or the rainbow effect. I demo'ed both and found DLP
> >headaches after about an hour of viewing - and the rainbows were
distracting
> >me from actually watching the film. I'm not doubting that the top end DLP
> >projectors are excellent - but for the price of the Sharp 9000 or the
Sim2
> >HT300, I could get a second hand 8" CRT professionally installed.
>
> Yup, and you'd be constrained to a totally blacked-out room. If you
> can live with that, then CRTs are certainly for you. If not.......
If I bought a CRT, I'd do without a living room and board up the windows.
But I'm not planning on that upgrade for a while..
-Vin