Burgh Heath Help Please

[Anthony Blackman]

A little help over pronunciation/history please.

I recently had the misfortune to attend a dinner and found myself surrounded
by pretentious prats. I'm sure you know the sort. The whole evening was
spent discussing how fast one had driven over the speed limit without being
stopped by the police, whether or not one lived on chalk and the merits of
water softeners.....yawn!

There is not a lot one can add to these sorts of conversations except the
obviously banal or the confrontational, "How totally irresponsible......"
etc. which really doesn't go down frightfully well. So I kept my thoughts
and comments to myself until a Margaret Thatcher look-a-like/sound-a-like
suddenly asked if I knew anything of a proposed local housing project
starting in Borough Heath.

I had to admit that I knew of Borough Green but not Borough Heath. Surely,
if I had lived all life in the Epsom area, I must know Borough Heath? I said
I'd never heard of it and asked where it was. She astounded me by saying
that it was near Tadworth and Banstead. "Oh, you mean Burgh Heath", I said
pronouncing it Burr as most locals do. "I can never understand why everyone
who lives around here uses the wrong pronunciation", she said, "Burgh should
be pronounced Borough as they do in Edinburgh".

I asked how she had come by this startling information that had been kept
secret from us local peasants for centuries? She indignantly claimed that
she had always known it and her neighbour in Tadworth, who used to work for
Surrey County Council had agreed. With tongue very firmly in cheek I
suggested that a Johnny-come-lately should do a little research before
assuming that everyone else was wrong. I said that as far as I knew Burgh
Heath had some connection with the De Burgh family (pronounced De Burr)
possibly from Tudor times. I seem to remember, from my dim and distant
school days, that Thomas(?) De Burgh was regent for Henry viii's son
Edward(?) who was too young to rule the country. I believe he died, could
have been murdered, near what is now called Burgh Heath.

I would be most grateful if anyone can confirm my pronunciation of Burgh
Heath and my memory of it's origins. I would love to be proved correct
especially as a vote taken around the table considered that I was wrong!

TIA
Regards,
Anthony

[Mark & Ana Jones]

Peter wrote:
> On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 23:37:50 +0000, Anthony Blackman
> <tbea...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> <snip>

>
>> I would be most grateful if anyone can confirm my pronunciation of
>> Burgh Heath and my memory of it's origins. I would love to be proved
>> correct especially as a vote taken around the table considered that
>> I was wrong!
>

> No idea about the history, though your version certainly sounds
> plausible.
>
> As for pronunciation, well, I've lived in East Surrey almost all my
> life (well over forty years, missing only about three or four years in
> my early twenties), and have always pronounced it as you do, ie
> 'burr'. I also work near there, in an office served by the Burgh Heath
> telephone exchange. I've always heard colleagues (about two thousand
> of them, which no doubt tells you exactly where I work) pronounce it
> the same way. Most of those colleagues come from the general area
> bounded by Leatherhead, Epsom, Dorking, Horley, Oxted, Croydon and
> Sutton.
>
> Peter.

I'd agree - burr and not borough.

Which reminds me of Row Town, a small hamlet betwixt Addlestone, Ottershaw &
New Haw. I find myself calling it both Row and "Roe" depending on how the
rest of the sentence is constructed - anyone got any history on Row Town?

Anyone for scones?

Mark

[Peter]

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 23:37:50 +0000, Anthony Blackman
<tbea...@dircon.co.uk> wrote:

<snip>

>I would be most grateful if anyone can confirm my pronunciation of Burgh

>Heath and my memory of it's origins. I would love to be proved correct
>especially as a vote taken around the table considered that I was wrong!

No idea about the history, though your version certainly sounds

[Anthony Blackman]

in article d1on5v$36m$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk, Jim & Debbie at
j...@sewell01.fsnet.co.uk wrote on 22/3/05 9:06 am:

>
> Hubert de Burgh (c.1170-1243)
> Right-hand man of King John. Made Chief Justiciar, carried out duties as
> politician, treasurer, Chancellor and armed forces commander. Signatory of
> Magna Carta, 1215. In 1216/7 withstood siege of Dover Castle by Prince Louis
> of France. During infancy of Henry III ran administration of the country
> along with the Archbishop of Canterbury. After that was member of the King's
> Council. Made Earl of Kent and married Princess Margaret of Scotland.
> Dismissed in 1239, retired to Banstead, of which he was Lord of the Manor
> from 1217 and died there in 1243.
>
>
Many thanks to all who replied. I'm pleased to see that you all agree with
me over the pronunciation. However, I see that I was a bit short of the mark
re the history. Still, what's a few hundred years between friends? According
to Jim & Debbie I was, at least, correct about the De Burgh family
connection. I suppose being able to dredge up that fact forty years after
leaving school when I have trouble remembering what I did a week ago must be
considered pretty amazing!

Once again my thanks to you all.
Anthony

[Dave (Sgt. Pepper)]

"Anthony Blackman" <tbea...@dircon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BE650B4E.5631%tbea...@dircon.co.uk...

> A little help over pronunciation/history please.
>

> TIA
> Regards,
> Anthony

I don't know the official answer Anthony, although when I came to live in
Epsom over 30 years ago, I was told to pronounce it "Burr" and have done so
ever since. Perhaps one of the worthies in this association would be
willing to shed some light on the matter ...
http://www.walkintadworth.com/burghheath/residents/contact/index.htm

--
Dave (Sgt. Pepper) Epsom, England
Nikon D2H / D100 / Coolpix 5700 / Canon Ixus 400 / Paintshop Pro 8
My photo galleries at http://www.pbase.com/davecq
"I will not tolerate intolerance ... Doh!!"

[Vernon]

"BrianE" <br...@earp1954nojunkplease.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d1oome$745$3...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...

> Anthony Blackman <tbea...@dircon.co.uk> wrote in

> news:BE650B4E.5631%tbea...@dircon.co.uk:

>
> > A little help over pronunciation/history please.
>

> Where's Mike Pellatt when you need him?
>
> :-)
>
> Surely its all down to local custom. Edinburgh is more of an Edinbruh..
> We have friends who live in New Costessy in near Norwich, Costessy is
> pronounced 'Cossy' but you'd never know it not being a local.
>

And in Kent - Trottiscliffe pronounced, if I remember rightly, Trozley.

[Jim & Debbie]

[BrianE]

Anthony Blackman <tbea...@dircon.co.uk> wrote in
news:BE650B4E.5631%tbea...@dircon.co.uk:

> A little help over pronunciation/history please.

Where's Mike Pellatt when you need him?

:-)

Surely its all down to local custom. Edinburgh is more of an Edinbruh..
We have friends who live in New Costessy in near Norwich, Costessy is
pronounced 'Cossy' but you'd never know it not being a local.

De Burr it surely is - and your acquaintances are pretentious tossers..

:-)

B.

[joanc...@gmail.com]

I was born in Burgh Heath in 1936 and lived there throughout the war years. The local telephone operator always pronounced the place as Borough Heath, as I have always known it.

[John Hall]

In message <af02db8d-c79c-4723...@googlegroups.com>,
joanc...@gmail.com writes

>On Monday, March 21, 2005 at 11:37:50 PM UTC, Anthony Blackman wrote:
>> A little help over pronunciation/history please.

<snip>

>I was born in Burgh Heath in 1936 and lived there throughout the war
>years. The local telephone operator always pronounced the place as
>Borough Heath, as I have always known it.

You've responded to a post from almost eleven years ago, so hopefully
Anthony hasn't had to wait until now for the answer to his question!
--
John Hall
"Honest criticism is hard to take,
particularly from a relative, a friend,
an acquaintance, or a stranger." Franklin P Jones

[Phil Aypee]

Hi,

Sn!pe wrote on Thu, 11 Feb :-

> All the same, it's nice to see some activity in here.

What bothers me is that the occasional poster who replies to an
ancient post (ancient in UseNet terms) never seems to post again. As
for the pronunciation of 'Burgh', the pronunciation of Edinburgh is a
major clue.

And, OT, if Sgt Pepper is still about I wonder if he still has the
Emin picture I seem to recall him investing in?

Take care,
Phil ;-) .

"Minimize your therbligs until it becomes automatic;
this doubles your effective lifetime -
and thereby gives time to enjoy butterflies
and kittens and rainbows."

[John Hall]

In message <almarsoft.5607...@news.aioe.org>, Phil Aypee
<railwa...@gmail.com.invalid> writes

>"Minimize your therbligs until it becomes automatic;
>this doubles your effective lifetime -
>and thereby gives time to enjoy butterflies
>and kittens and rainbows."

Do what? :)

[Peter]

On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 10:46:05 +0000, John Hall
<john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:

>In message <almarsoft.5607...@news.aioe.org>, Phil Aypee
><railwa...@gmail.com.invalid> writes
>>"Minimize your therbligs until it becomes automatic;
>>this doubles your effective lifetime -
>>and thereby gives time to enjoy butterflies
>>and kittens and rainbows."
>
>Do what? :)

If memory serves, it's a quote from Heinlein. Time Enough for Love, I
think.

Peter.

[John Hall]

In message <cfiicb5ou3o5inpbi...@4ax.com>, Peter
<REPLACEWIT...@allblue.f9.co.uk> writes

Thanks.

[Peter]

On Sun, 21 Feb 2016 09:02:52 +0000, snip...@gmail.com (Sn!pe) wrote:

>John Hall <john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <cfiicb5ou3o5inpbi...@4ax.com>, Peter
>> <REPLACEWIT...@allblue.f9.co.uk> writes
>> >On Sat, 20 Feb 2016 10:46:05 +0000, John Hall
>> ><john_...@jhall.co.uk> wrote:
>> >
>> >>In message <almarsoft.5607...@news.aioe.org>, Phil Aypee
>> >><railwa...@gmail.com.invalid> writes
>> >>>"Minimize your therbligs until it becomes automatic;
>> >>>this doubles your effective lifetime -
>> >>>and thereby gives time to enjoy butterflies
>> >>>and kittens and rainbows."
>> >>
>> >>Do what? :)
>> >
>> >If memory serves, it's a quote from Heinlein. Time Enough for Love, I
>> >think.
>> >
>> >Peter.
>>
>> Thanks.
>

>I've just looked up 'therbligs': apparently it's a time and motion study
>term and is the reverse of the name Gilbreth, the researchers who
>invented it.
>
><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Therblig>

Thanks. I never knew that. I first came across the word about forty
years ago (long before we had the Internet) and interpreted it as
"useless things". That still seems consistent with the philosophical
intention, if not the exact meaning. Incidentally, that quote's pretty
typical of the philosophy that Heinlein scattered through his novels.

Peter.

[Phil Aypee]

Hi Sn!pe & John,

I appended this quote after my signature:-

> "Minimize your therbligs until it becomes automatic;
> this doubles your effective lifetime -
> and thereby gives time to enjoy butterflies
> and kittens and rainbows."

The quote is from Robert A. Heinlein's book /Time Enough For Love/
and a therblig is a unit devised by Lilian and Frank Gilbreth who
pioneered modern work study techniques. It is basically a unit of
movement or effort or a wasted movement (or lack thereof).

Heinlein's idea is that you should conserve your energy used for
chores so that you have more energy for fun. It's a good idea. The
hero, Lazarus Long, makes the comment in his notebook.

If you want to know more about therbligs try Google or Wikipedia (I
think that the latter may be more useful) but therblig is Gilbreth
spelt backwards phonetically.

Is there any more dross you want to know about? I'm a veritable mine
of useless information.

Incidentally I was a Production Engineer a lifetime time ago and the
concept of a therblig was useful then.

Take care,
Phil ;-) .

"I know you believe you understand what
you thought I said but I'm not sure you realise
that what you heard is not what I meant."
(not Heinlein!)

[Phil Aypee]

Hi Peter /et al./,

> Thanks. I never knew that. I first came across the word about forty
> years ago (long before we had the Internet) and interpreted it as
> "useless things". That still seems consistent with the philosophical
> intention, if not the exact meaning. Incidentally, that quote's
pretty
> typical of the philosophy that Heinlein scattered through his
novels.

Heinlein had a strange philosophy that changed dramatically
throughout his life. At one point he was seriously anti-gay but later
he was very tolerant of unusual sexual orientations. He was seriously
anti-gun-control for most of his life but his nearly right-wing
beliefs were also freedom-oriented and so were almost considered
un-American by the House Un-American Activities Committee and
communist by the fun-loving Senator McCarthy.

I think his best book was 'Stranger In A Strange Land' (which I first
read way over 40 years back) and I still enjoy it. Like the best
sci-fi writers he didn't much like ray-guns and other such silliness,
he preferred to use sci-fi as a hook for more serious thought,
/though 'Space Family Stone' is far from serious/. In literature my
hero is Jubal Harshaw, a principal character in 'Stranger In A
Strange Land', though Lord Emsworth comes a close second.

Take care,
Phil ;-) .

[Peter]

On Tue, 23 Feb 2016 18:59:12 +0000, Phil Aypee
<railwa...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>Heinlein had a strange philosophy that changed dramatically
>throughout his life. At one point he was seriously anti-gay but later
>he was very tolerant of unusual sexual orientations. He was seriously
>anti-gun-control for most of his life but his nearly right-wing
>beliefs were also freedom-oriented and so were almost considered
>un-American by the House Un-American Activities Committee and
>communist by the fun-loving Senator McCarthy.

In his early years, he once stood for the California State Assembly as
a Democrat. His politics shifted rather suddenly and strongly to the
right around the time that he married his third wife, Virginia.

Nonetheless, his later books show a very liberal attitude indeed to
sexual behaviour, including parent-child incest. However, in the same
book - To Sail Beyond the Sunset - he clearly frowned on sibling
incest. (And yes, I do remember Lazarus Long and Maureen Smith in the
earlier Time Enough for Love as well.)

>I think his best book was 'Stranger In A Strange Land' (which I first
>read way over 40 years back) and I still enjoy it. Like the best
>sci-fi writers he didn't much like ray-guns and other such silliness,
>he preferred to use sci-fi as a hook for more serious thought,
>/though 'Space Family Stone' is far from serious/. In literature my
>hero is Jubal Harshaw, a principal character in 'Stranger In A
>Strange Land', though Lord Emsworth comes a close second.

I know exactly when I first read both Stranger in a Strange Land and
Time Enough for Love: in the summer of 1975. I was supposed to be
swotting up for my O-Levels at the time.

I didn't read Heinlein's adult books until quite late because I'd
earlier read his juveniles, and thought I'd outgrown him. How wrong I
was!

In the early 90s, a longer version of Stranger was published. It added
(if memory serves) about 150 pages of words. But it didn't add any
substance. His editor for the original version did a good job.
Unfortunately, I lent my copy my copy of the original version to
someone and it was never returned. As far as I know, it's no longer
available.

Peter.

[Phil Aypee]

Hi Peter,

You wrote on Fri, 26 Feb 2016:-

> In his early years, he once stood for the California State Assembly
as
> a Democrat. His politics shifted rather suddenly and strongly to the
> right around the time that he married his third wife, Virginia.

I actually know little of Heinlein's life but he was certainly an
outspoken man. I wonder how he would react to the way people use
smartphones today. I expect he would have a FarleyFile program
written as he truly revered that idea.

> Nonetheless, his later books show a very liberal attitude indeed to
> sexual behaviour, including parent-child incest. However, in the
same
> book - To Sail Beyond the Sunset - he clearly frowned on sibling
> incest. (And yes, I do remember Lazarus Long and Maureen Smith in
the
> earlier Time Enough for Love as well.)

The sibling incest thing was a bit compromised when Lazarus Long
screwed his cloned sisters!

> >I think his best book was 'Stranger In A Strange Land' (which I
first
> >read way over 40 years back) and I still enjoy it. Like the best
> >sci-fi writers he didn't much like ray-guns and other such
silliness,
> >he preferred to use sci-fi as a hook for more serious thought,
> >/though 'Space Family Stone' is far from serious/. In literature
my
> >hero is Jubal Harshaw, a principal character in 'Stranger In A
> >Strange Land', though Lord Emsworth comes a close second.

> I know exactly when I first read both Stranger in a Strange Land and
> Time Enough for Love: in the summer of 1975. I was supposed to be
> swotting up for my O-Levels at the time.

Which makes me nearly 10 years older than you - I've just passed my
21st birthday again.

> I didn't read Heinlein's adult books until quite late because I'd
> earlier read his juveniles, and thought I'd outgrown him. How wrong
I
> was!

I've read none of his juvenile stuff but it has quite a good
reputation.

> In the early 90s, a longer version of Stranger was published. It
added
> (if memory serves) about 150 pages of words. But it didn't add any
> substance. His editor for the original version did a good job.
> Unfortunately, I lent my copy my copy of the original version to
> someone and it was never returned. As far as I know, it's no longer
> available.

Try
http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=heinlein&tag=hydrukspg-21&i
ndex=stripbooks&hvadid=34799466121&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12
291597695450138495&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=m&ref=pd_sl_u7hrlb3nd_
b
, Amazon is a good resource for this stuff. I've got lots of Heinlein
stuff on my (huge, almost tablet-like) phone.

I've also read a lot of Larry Niven as well as a fair bit of Asimov.
I really dislike the shoot-'em-up style of sci-fi, I find it boring.
I like more cerebral fare. That's why I like Pterry.

[John Hall]

In message <almarsoft.4995...@news.aioe.org>, Phil Aypee
<railwa...@gmail.com.invalid> writes
<snip>

>I've also read a lot of Larry Niven as well as a fair bit of Asimov. I
>really dislike the shoot-'em-up style of sci-fi, I find it boring. I
>like more cerebral fare. That's why I like Pterry.

I'm with you on all of those.

Regarding Heinlein, he seems to have undergone a sudden remarkable
change in his attitudes and his writing in the early 1960s, "Stranger in
a Strange Land" being the first of the "Late Heinlein" novels that came
subsequent to that. It wasn't quite a "clean" change, as the last of the
"Early Heinlein" novels was "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress", which wasn't
published till about 1965. I have to admit to much preferring Early to
Late Heinlein (even if I didn't care for all of his politics).

[Peter]

On Fri, 26 Feb 2016 14:49:37 +0000, Phil Aypee
<railwa...@gmail.com.invalid> wrote:

>

>> I know exactly when I first read both Stranger in a Strange Land and
>> Time Enough for Love: in the summer of 1975. I was supposed to be
>> swotting up for my O-Levels at the time.
>
>Which makes me nearly 10 years older than you - I've just passed my
>21st birthday again.

Many happy returns!

>> I didn't read Heinlein's adult books until quite late because I'd
>> earlier read his juveniles, and thought I'd outgrown him. How wrong
>I
>> was!
>
>I've read none of his juvenile stuff but it has quite a good
>reputation.

It's the better part of fifty years since I read them, but they were
very good. Heinlein and Andre Norton were, by courtesy of Horley
Public Library, the authors who introduced me to SF. I particularly
remember Citizen of the Galaxy and Tunnel in the Sky. As I grew up, I
moved on to the likes of Asimov and Clarke.

>Try
>http://www.amazon.co.uk/s/?ie=UTF8&keywords=heinlein&tag=hydrukspg-21&i
>ndex=stripbooks&hvadid=34799466121&hvpos=1t1&hvexid=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=12
>291597695450138495&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=b&hvdev=m&ref=pd_sl_u7hrlb3nd_
>b
>, Amazon is a good resource for this stuff. I've got lots of Heinlein
>stuff on my (huge, almost tablet-like) phone.

Thanks very much. Unfortunately, that's the long version, not the
edited one that I prefer. Still, the situation has improved. Last time
I looked, there were only about two Heinlein e-books available (one
was Time Enough for Love).

>I've also read a lot of Larry Niven as well as a fair bit of Asimov.
>I really dislike the shoot-'em-up style of sci-fi, I find it boring.
>I like more cerebral fare. That's why I like Pterry.

I've tried Pratchett, but am not a fan. I recognise his merit, but
just don't enjoy his books myself. Unlike you, I do enjoy space opera.
But if you enjoy more cerebral fare, I wonder if you might like Robert
J Sawyer? If you're not familiar with his work, I suggest his
Wake/Watch/Wonder trilogy, or the Neanderthal Parallax series
(Hominids/Humans/Hybrids). Flashforward is very good, and bears little
relationship to the TV series of the same name. (The book was very
good, but would have made lousy TV because it's too cerebral for that
medium.)

Peter.

[John Hall]

In message <rtn2db9lle9b55au4...@4ax.com>, Peter
<REPLACEWIT...@allblue.f9.co.uk> writes

>Flashforward is very good, and bears little relationship to the TV
>series of the same name. (The book was very good, but would have made
>lousy TV because it's too cerebral for that medium.)

I've not read the book, but quite enjoyed the TV series, even though
there were so many characters that it was hard to keep track of them
all. I was disappointed when it was cancelled after the first series.

[Gold Sellers]

HMU
CALL OR TEXT or WhatsApp ....+237682822983
Email:....... reseachch...@gmail.com

hello we are leading suppliers of pharmaceutical product meds online
we operate on a daily and retails basis and very reliable and our
product are 100% top quality am ready to supply on large and smaller
orders and I am looking in building a strong business relationship
with potential client around the world, I do worldwide delivery and
delivery is guaranteed.
see price list offer and pm me or you can get me on Whatsapp

FOR ZOPICLONE 7.5MG SMALLER ORDER
250 tabs..........................&#8206;£90
500 tabs...........................&#8206;£150
1000 tabs.........................&#8206;£250
2500 tabs.........................£350
5000 tabs.........................£500
7500 tabs.........................£700
10000 tabs........................£850
15000 tabs........................£1200
25000 tabs........................£1500
FOR DIAZEPAM SHALINA BRAND
diazepam 10mg 500pills £100
diazepam 10mg 300pills £70
diazepam 10mg 1000pills £150
diazepam 10mg 5000pills £350
diazepam 5mg 1000pills £120
diazepam 5mg 5000pills £300
diazepam 5mg 10000pills £500
diazepam 10mg 10000pills £700
FOR ROCHE DIAZEPAMS 10MG SMALLER ORDER
250 tabs..........................&#8206;£90
500 tabs...........................&#8206;£150
1000 tabs.........................&#8206;£250
2500 tabs.........................£350
5000 tabs.........................£500
7500 tabs.........................£700
10000 tabs........................£850
15000 tabs........................£1200
25000 tabs........................£1500
TEVA 10MG DIAZEPAMS SMALLER ORDER
250 tabs...........................&#8206;£90
500 tabs...........................&#8206;£150
1000 tabs.........................&#8206;£250
2500 tabs.........................£350
5000 tabs.........................£500
7500 tabs.........................£700
10000 tabs.......................£850
15000 tabs.......................£1200
25000 tabs.......................£1500
..
ketamine £20 each vial/1g
ketamine powder each gram £25
FOR TRAMADOL APPLE FLAVOUR
tramadol 50mg 250pills £80
tramadol 100mg 300pills £90
tramadol 225mg 300pills £120
tramadol 50mg 500pills £130
tramadol 100mg 500pills £140
tramadol 250mg 500pills £150
tramadol 50mg 1000pills £200
tramadol 100mg 1000pills £220
tramadol 250mg 1000pills £250
FOR TRAMADOL BULK ORDER
tramadol 50mg 5000pills £450
tramadol 100mg 5000pills £550
tramadol 250mg 5000pills £700
I also have my delivery records all around the worlds and i
provide date pictures with buyers name and my name CALL US OR TEXT
....+237682822983 email for details supply more than the quantity
listed, I give an additional discount to more larger orders look forward
in doing great business with reliable buyer thanks email for details
Research Chemicals Ltd

CALL OR TEXT or WhatsApp ....+237682822983
Email:........... reseachch...@gmail.com