Why is Portsmouth called "Pompey"?
Barry Ward
"Pompey" like everyone else- but now I realise that I don't know why it is
called that.
Barry
Tiddy Ogg
ejaculated:
On Radio Solent many years ago they had an "Expert" who gave the his
opinion. I can't remember what it was, but these are equally valid:
First, it is named after Pompeii, city of sin and sexula delight.
Secondly, and more PC is this:
Portsmouth was one of the first places in England to have a fire
brigade, and they had regular practice sessions on Southsea common.
This was a source of great entertainment to the townsfolk, and the
crews of visiting ships, the French in particular, who would turn up
to watch them spraying water madly in all directions using
hand-operated pumps. It was a joy to come and laugh at "les
pompiers."
- Tiddy.
Dubious ditties, perverted poetry, diabolical doggerel...
http://www.btinternet.com/~tiddyogg
Tweetie Pooh
Dec 2002 07:03:47a with news:at1ets$414$1...@lust.ihug.co.nz:
Itn't because it looks like it has been covered with volcanic ash?
Charlie Farlie
smells" so i took her for a romantic day out in portsmouth.
chaz
Martyn
There are many theories, and I very much doubt there's any chance of
finding an absolute and definitive answer, but there are a number of
theories listed here:
n cook
Can't help here but have you heard of the phrase (naval slang)
Getting off at Fratton
I do know about that one
I have heard there is an Australian equivalent expression
of something like
Getting off at Woy Woy
Woy Woy being a part of Sydney,Oz
Paranoid Pearl
It is quite ironic these days that I have to tell friends travelling to
Pompey by train to do just that, living just yards from that particular
station.
I may as well be the one to explain the phrase.....so here goes.
Fratton is the last station on the line into Pompey before you get to the
main station.
So if you get off at Fratton you are getting off the train before the end of
the journey.
Now, liken this to the withdrawal method!
Pearl xx
nigel cook
"Paranoid Pearl" <pearl....@nospamtl.com> wrote in message
news:LNiJ9.1527$vh7....@newsfep1-win.server.ntli.net...
train at Pompey harbour station.
Someone
got on and enquired of the
people on the carriage
"Can I get off at Fratton ?"
I also cracked up laughing
but no reaction from the 40
or so people on the carriage.
I had to explain to mainly
rush hour Pompey bods about
coitus interuptus.
I recently heard that Southamptonites
are called mushes because of the
huge Huguenot influx of refuges
in 17 century so that 1/3 of the
city was French. The natives
in their own dialect their
pronounciation of these messieurs
was musheurs.
Nigel,Southampton
em dive...@tcp.co.u.....k (remove 5 dots)
Some local alternative Southampton
street culture on
http://www.divdev.fsnet.co.uk/graff.htm
Roger T.
--
"nigel cook"
Now let's see. Last time I was in the UK and in Pompey was in August, 1968.
> > Fratton is the last station on the line into Pompey before you get to
the
> > main station.
At that time, Fratton was the third station from the end of the line.
Stations in Portsmouth were Hilsea Halt (As is was then known), Fratton,
Portsmouth and Southsea (Known locally the as "The Town" station) and
Portsmouth Harbour.
So, kinda shoots down the "coitus interuptus" idea, doesn't it?
Cheers
Roger T.
Paranoid Pearl
>
> > > Fratton is the last station on the line into Pompey before you get to
> the
> > > main station.
>
> At that time, Fratton was the third station from the end of the line.
>
> Stations in Portsmouth were Hilsea Halt (As is was then known), Fratton,
> Portsmouth and Southsea (Known locally the as "The Town" station) and
> Portsmouth Harbour.
>
> So, kinda shoots down the "coitus interuptus" idea, doesn't it?
>
> Cheers
> Roger T.
Well, to mind Portsmouth and Southsea is the main station, so no it doesn't!
Of course, others may disagree. Which is their prerogative, no less.
And, I did say Fratton is the last station on the line INTO Pompey.....not
the last station on the line!
So no, it doesn't kinda shoot down the "coitus interuptus" idea, does it?
You are still getting out before going all the way.
Pearl xx
Roger T.
--
"Paranoid Pearl" <
>
> You are still getting out before going all the way.
Well, OK, I'll concede the point.
Cheers
Roger T.
http://www.highspeedplus.com/~rogertra/
Paranoid Pearl
>
> Well, OK, I'll concede the point.
>
> Cheers
> Roger T.
:)
Martyn
Anyway "Getting off at Portsmouth and Southsea" doesn't have the same
ring to it.
Mal
news:3DF70352...@bigfoot.com...
"Getting off at Portsmouth and Southsea" is slang for the back door is it?
nigel cook
news:at7713$h9o$1...@rdel.co.uk...
Nigel
Barry Ward
Getting off at WOY WOY in relation to Sydney doesn't quite fit -- first of
all, there is no train between WOY WOY and Sydney -- and WOY WOY is about
as close to Sydney as Southhampton is to Pompey!! :) Oh dear -- You
Poms!!
Never mind - I forgive your ignorance and ineptitude.
But you do live in a beautiful part of the world -- I would instantly
exchange our 30C temperature, blue skies, sandy beaches , huge prawns,
bikini clad Aussie beauties, cheap T-bone steaks for the barbie for a log
fire and a pint of Gales HSB in the Bat and Ball at Hambledon. Sigh!
You know - there is a reason why (except for the past 200 years) , the only
people to live in Australia for the last 40,000+ years have been the
Australian Aborigines . The Asian peoples to our north must have known the
continent was here . It has to do with rain , water -- and the lack
thereof!!
Bazza
sage
nigel cook <div...@tcp.co.uk> wrote in message
news:atydnQiqSfE...@tcp.co.uk...
origins. When I first heard it, I thought I was being insulted (maybe I was)
and the guy to whom I objected was very puzzled that I should think he was
being rude, and he apologised.
Cheers, Sage
Paranoid Pearl
Which can be taken to mean a ladette or a lesbian!
Pearl xx
quokka
>
> Barry Ward wrote:
> >
> > As an old Aussie Navy man who trained in Portsmouth, I have always called it
> > "Pompey" like everyone else- but now I realise that I don't know why it is
> > called that.
>
>
> Getting off at Fratton
>
> I do know about that one
> I have heard there is an Australian equivalent expression
> of something like
> Getting off at Woy Woy
> Woy Woy being a part of Sydney,Oz
"Getting off at Redfern" would be the Sydney equivalent. Redfern is the
last station on the main railway line before you get to Central, which
is the major railway station in Sydney.
HTH
Pamela Lee
--
_ __,----,,,
// \.-' `,
/ ,--- `, Manager: Are you the wife?
| 9 ) ,, / | Dana Scully: Not even close!
'--'--'|/\(_( / --- The X Files - 'The Pine Bluff Variant'
(( (( \ /
__\_) / ',__________ Pamela Lee - quo...@speednet.com.au
pll '--------'`--------------' EAS #5
sage
quokka <quo...@speednet.com.au> wrote in message
news:3E4CFEE7...@speednet.com.au...
> n cook wrote:
> >
> > Barry Ward wrote:
> > >
> > > As an old Aussie Navy man who trained in Portsmouth, I have always
called it
> > > "Pompey" like everyone else- but now I realise that I don't know why
it is
> > > called that.
> >
http://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/379.html
Also known as RN Covey-Crump. Lots of definitions.
"Pompey: The sailors' name for Portsmouth. Said to have originated from the
inarticulate pronunciation of "Portsmouth Point" by inebriated sailors.
Portsmouth Point was the place at which ships' boats landed and embarked
libertymen before the dockyard was a going concern.
"To Dodge Pompey: To evade doing a job of work."
Of course, the origin is doubtful. Who ever heard of an inebriated sailor?
Cheers, Sage
sage
> >
> > Barry Ward wrote:
> > >
> > > As an old Aussie Navy man who trained in Portsmouth, I have always
called it
> > > "Pompey" like everyone else- but now I realise that I don't know why
it is
> > > called that.
Meanwhile: here's another raft of info. about how it was derived. Who knows?
I regret I cannot remember where I found this originally. Apologies to
whoever put it together in the first place.
Cheers, Sage
Origin of the Term "Pompey" for Portsmouth
The exact derivation of the word Pompey is not known, but several theories
have been advanced, of which the following are examples:
"When the Portuguese took possession of what is known as Bombay, they
called it Bom Bahia, two words meaning good harbour. On the marriage of
Charles II to Catherine of Braganza, Bom Bahia was given to Charles as a
wedding present." When the Portuguese seamen, who has most probably been to
Bombay, brought the Princess to Portsmouth to be married, they may have
noticed a few points where Bom Bahia and Portsmouth resemble each other and
naturally being obsessed with the idea of Bom Bahia as the wedding present,
they may have called Portsmouth Bom Bahia, which, to English ears would
sound like Pompey.
"The points of resemblance between Bombay and Portsmouth are: both are
islands; both have good harbours; the two cities are flat with the exception
that Bombay has a strip of high land running from Malabar Point to
Mahaluxmi, and both are only a few feet above sea level"
Evening News -- December 2nd 1933 p. 3, col. 3.
Another theory is that the Portsmouth Football Team were formed from the
team of the Royal Artillery, who were the original Pompeys.
"The name was acquired in this way: At a Queen's Birthday Review the Royal
Artillery were employed to line the parade instead of marching past. They
were chaffed a good deal at being relegated to a job which was, in those
days, done in Paris by the Fire Brigade (les Pompiers), and the next time
the team turned out they were hailed as 'Pompiers' and the name stuck.
"I was myself a gunner in the Portsmouth command at the time."
Evening News -- October 9th 1934 p. 6, col. 7.
The Portsmouth Football Team is, of course, nowadays known everywhere as the
Pompey Football Team and the first use of the name Pompey in a local
newspaper which has so far been discovered is in connection with the
Portsmouth Football and Athletic Company, as it was then entitled, which was
formed in May 1898:
"Wilkie, amid tremendous cheering from the Pompey lads, won the toss, and
played with the wind in their favour."
Evening News -- December 9th 1899 p.3, col. 6.
There are theories which contend that the derivation of Pompey is of naval
origin. It has been suggested that Pompey was used for Portsmouth long
before the existence of the Portsmouth Football Club. It is possible to
trace the probable origin of the name back to 1797, at the time of the
famous Spithead mutiny. Some of the vessels implicated were: Terrible, Queen
Charlotte, Glory, Duke, Defiance, Ramilles and the Pompee. Of these the
Pompee was the most actively concerned in the whole proceedings. One story
goes that two delegates from each ship were invited to assemble on board La
Pompee at Portsmouth -- and two drunken seamen were arrested in London,
evidently delegates from the Nore.
They were capable of asserting little else than that they were going to
Pompey -- and it is probable that all mutinous seamen at that time referred
to their delegates as being at Pompey and possibly therefore the entire
nation came to think in terms of Pompee rather than of Portsmouth and
sailors, with their innate love of nicknames, were disinclined to cease the
practice. In this way the two names became synonymous.
The story has often been told, too, of how in one of her popular lectures to
bluejackets, Dame Agnes Weston, the Sailor's friend, referred to the tragedy
of Pompey's life at sea, and a sympathetic listener ejaculated "Poor old
Pompey".
The name caught on and remains. Another story connected with Dame Agnes
Weston is that when she was once conducting a revivalist campaign in
Portsmouth, she brought with her an evangelist bishop, who, in an
impassioned speech, declared that Portsmouth was a wicked town, liable to
share the fate of the old city of Pompeii. The name "tickled" his audience,
mainly bluejackets, and it has ever since clung to the town.
There is also in existence a letter written in 1762 by C.M. Rodney referring
to an armed vessel hired for the Navy, upon which some repairs had been
effected. She was called Pompey -- the spelling of the name being identical
with that still in use, so that if this ship was associated in any way with
Portsmouth it would be the earliest link between the port and the nickname.
The mere fact of there being such a ship is significant.
"Mr J.G. Hogan, a former Evening News overseer, tells me that many years
ago Mr H.A. Coombes, of The Hippodrome, sent him what might be the answer
to the mystery.
"Mr Coombes wrote to say that the name had been attributed by some to
sailors in a Portsmouth vessel enamoured of the doings of Pompey the Great.
"'Pompey is the common English form of the Roman name Pompeius,' wrote Mr
Coombs [sic] 'Pompey the Great (106 - 48 B.C.) was Gnaeus Pompeius Magnus,
the great triumvir. He had joint rule with Caesar but refused to submit to
the Senate's ruling which revoked his and Caesar's rule, and was finally
beaten by Caesar.
"'His son Sextus Pompeius Magnus (75 - 35 B.C.) carried on the struggle,
but was finally beaten at sea by Agrippa, and was murdered in 35 B.C.'
'Incidentally, Pompey's Pillar at Alexandria which has also been said to
have something to do with the origin of Portsmouth's nick-name was
mistakenly supposed to indicate the burial place of Pompey the Great, who
was assassinated in Egypt by order of Ptolemy XII. The red granite column,
dedicated to Diocletian, was erected at Alexandria in the Fourth Century
A.D.'
Evening News -- August 24th 1957 p.2, cols. 2 and 3.
N.B. The theory mentioned above is that English sailors climbed Pompey's
Pillar in 1781 and became known as the Pompey Boys.
Another theory claims that the name originates in Shakespeare's Anthony and
Cleopatra -- Act 1, scene 4, where a messenger reports to Caesar, "Pompey is
strong at sea". Again in scene 2, Anthony says, "Sextus Pompeius hath given
the dare to Caesar, and commands the empire of the sea." Portsmouth being
the premier naval port, the derivation is obvious.
Another possibility suggested by Odhams Press Ltd. (Letter 4th December
1958) is that Pompey
"is the result of the inarticulate pronunciation of inebriated sailors who
were trying to say POrtsMouth POint, the spot where they changed from ship
to shore'.
"Pompey. Portsmouth: naval: late C.19 - 20. Bowen. Perhaps ex its naval
prison: cf. Yorkshire Pompey, a house of correction (E.D.D.). … 3.
Portsmouth
Football Club: sporting: C.20. …'
Partridge, Eric. A Dictionary of slang and unconventional English. 1949.
p.
647
JM/PRMB/15/12/58
© Portsmouth City Council.
Reproduced by kind permission of Hampshire County Library Service. The
document can be found in the Local Studies Collection at the Norrish Central
Library, Portsmouth.
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