Re: dog fouling pavement - peeing included?
Ret.
> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>
> We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
> public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
> are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>
> The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road while
> they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the flowers.
> Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up saying nothing.
> And the adults don't half know it.
>
> I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
> course they don't.
>
> Thank you. Have a nice day.
Yes - we've had the same problem. Anti-social pet owners are as bad as
litterers.
--
Kev
tim....
"dave" <da...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
news:tcivs6ltmld1givs5...@4ax.com...
> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
Thinking about this logically, I don't think that it's possible for the law
to insist that an owner stop an animal doing what it needs to do.
All it can do is expect the owner to clear up afterwards.
Can urine be cleaned up afterwards?
tim
Maria
What do you suggest? A nappy? The offence surely is not allowing a dog
to foul the pavement - it's the offence of not cleaning it up. If a dog
decides to go to the toilet, it's difficult to stop them. Mine is
trained to only poo on grass so he waits to get to the park, but
urination is difficult to prevent and impossible to clear up.
I'm not saying it's not a problem - just that it is not a matter of
being anti-social as a dog-owner.
Mrcheerful
> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>
> We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
> public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
> are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>
> The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road while
> they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the flowers.
> Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up saying nothing.
> And the adults don't half know it.
>
> I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
> course they don't.
>
> Thank you. Have a nice day.
There is no reason not to tell the child, the parent obviously has not.
Contact your local council as do fouling would be under a bye-law I would
imagine.
Many years ago I ran a shop on a corner, the doorway was at the corner, a
dog owner with a dog on a lead let his dog pee straight into the shop! I
leapt over the counter and collared the owner (pun intended) he denied the
dog had done anything!! I put him in fear of a good kicking if it recurred,
it never did, so the message got through.
Maria
> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>
> We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
> public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
> are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>
> The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road while
> they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the flowers.
> Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up saying nothing.
> And the adults don't half know it.
>
> I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
> course they don't.
Mine wouldn't move. He has selected that spot for a reason - usually
because another dog has peed there.
>
> Thank you. Have a nice day.
http://www.gardeningknowhow.com/organic/natural-homemade-dog-repellent.htm
Mrcheerful
Dogs can be made to move, I used to have to walk a very bolshy elderly Boxer
dog, but I was always able to drag it into the kerb to go both wee and poo,
after a while it got the message.
Jeff
> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>
> We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
> public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
> are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
If this is happening on your property then no offence is being committed
even if was classified as dog fouling. (Unless of course you have
illegally started to cultivate council land which does not belong to you).
The only recourse you have is a civil action for any expense or loss
that you have incurred.
Jeff
Ophelia
"Maria" <old...@theshoe.org> wrote in message
news:Hv-dnZj7JYTNTFLQ...@bt.com...
I agree with Maria. My dog is trained to wait until we get to the nature
reserve. The answer is having enough trips so the dog is not so desparate
it can't wait.
--
--
sid
Bottle of water would soon clear it up
sid
Of course it can, what do people do when a puppy urinates in the house,
leave it there?
Maria
> On Sun, 15 May 2011 14:12:41 +0100, Maria<old...@theshoe.org> wrote:
>
>> On 15/05/2011 14:08, Ret. wrote:
>>> dave wrote:
>>>> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>>>>
>>>> We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
>>>> public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
>>>> are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>>>>
>>>> The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road while
>>>> they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the flowers.
>>>> Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up saying nothing.
>>>> And the adults don't half know it.
>>>>
>>>> I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
>>>> course they don't.
>>>>
>>>> Thank you. Have a nice day.
>>>
>>> Yes - we've had the same problem. Anti-social pet owners are as bad as
>>> litterers.
>>>
>>
>> What do you suggest?
>
> kerbside. No priblem with that.
>> A nappy?
> Please read what I actually wrote and not ignore the bits you don't
> like.
>
The response was to Kev not you - I responded to you elsewhere.
>> The offence surely is not allowing a dog
>> to foul the pavement - it's the offence of not cleaning it up.
> I don't know the legal position. Saying "surely" doesn't make it so.
> You may be right you may be wrong.
I say 'surely' because the dog is an animal and has a mind of its own.
It's impossible to stop them if they do it.
>> If a dog
>> decides to go to the toilet, it's difficult to stop them. Mine is
>> trained to only poo on grass so he waits to get to the park, but
>> urination is difficult to prevent and impossible to clear up.
> Yes.
>
>> I'm not saying it's not a problem
> agreed.
>
>> just that it is not a matter of
>> being anti-social as a dog-owner.
>
> Well it is - for the reason I've re-stated. Use the kerbside - not MY
> garden. Thank you.
The dog is choosing the location, not the owner.
Maria
It depends - mine has two kinds of wee - one which it has which it needs
to do to empty its bladder, and one kind of wee which is to mark his
scent to other dogs. The first kind is easier to train. I will try it
though - he has dodgy legs, so if I pull him, he falls over and smashes
his face on the pavement.
Ret.
"tim...." <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:93a1pn...@mid.individual.net...
>
> "dave" <da...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
> news:tcivs6ltmld1givs5...@4ax.com...
>> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>
> Thinking about this logically, I don't think that it's possible for the
> law to insist that an owner stop an animal doing what it needs to do.
No-one is suggesting that an owner can stop his dog from peeing. What he
*can* do (assuming the dog is on a lead) is control *where* the dog pees.
If it starts to pee on someone's garden - then you pull it away. Simples...
--
Kev
Ret.
Unless the dog is bigger than you - of course it isn't. You just drag it
away...
>
>>> If a dog
>>> decides to go to the toilet, it's difficult to stop them. Mine is
>>> trained to only poo on grass so he waits to get to the park, but
>>> urination is difficult to prevent and impossible to clear up.
>> Yes.
>>
>>> I'm not saying it's not a problem
>> agreed.
>>
>>> just that it is not a matter of
>>> being anti-social as a dog-owner.
>>
>> Well it is - for the reason I've re-stated. Use the kerbside - not MY
>> garden. Thank you.
>
> The dog is choosing the location, not the owner.
Seems to me that your dog controls you - not the other way around... Have
you ever thought of dog-training classes?
--
Kev
Ret.
--
Kev
Mentalguy2k8
>
> We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
> public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
> are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>
> The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road while
> they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the flowers.
> Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up saying nothing.
> And the adults don't half know it.
>
> I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
> course they don't.
>
You could try an ultrasonic repellent, I put one in my garden to stop cats
shitting in my borders, it seems to work as I haven't found any lately. You
could set it up at right-angles to your gate so it "aims" (movement sensor)
along the entire border and some of the pavement. As soon as it detects
movement, it sets off a very high-pitched sound for a few seconds and seems
to scare the animals off.
Beauty of it is, it works on kids too. I think if you're over the age of
about 30 you won't hear it as hearing declines with age.
Or put a little wall up. You don't have to "tell the child off", maybe you
could politely show him/her the damage it is doing, or you could speak to
the parent if they're waiting further up the road.
Michael Swift
<old...@theshoe.org> writes
>What do you suggest? A nappy? The offence surely is not allowing a dog to
>foul the pavement - it's the offence of not cleaning it up. If a dog decides to
>go to the toilet, it's difficult to stop them. Mine is trained to only poo on grass
>so he waits to get to the park, but urination is difficult to prevent and
>impossible to clear up.
One wonders how you clean it up after a wet sloppy one, I'm afraid
letting your dog crap in the park is *very* anti social.
>I'm not saying it's not a problem - just that it is not a matter of being anti-
>social as a dog-owner.
I'm afraid it is, two of my sons own dogs and if they need to pee they
do it in the gutter, preferably near a drain, they've been trained that
way.
Mike
--
Michael Swift We do not regard Englishmen as foreigners.
Kirkheaton We look on them only as rather mad Norwegians.
Yorkshire Halvard Lange
RastaMouse
>>> just that it is not a matter of
>>> being anti-social as a dog-owner.
>>
>> Well it is - for the reason I've re-stated. Use the kerbside - not MY
>> garden. Thank you.
>
> The dog is choosing the location, not the owner.
It's marking territory. Put strong bleach down for a few days and it
should stop it.
johannes
Out of interest. What do they do with sniffer dogs working in e.g. airports?
harry
You need a rolled up newspaper. A whack doesn't hurt but makes noise.
Mr Pounder
"Ret." <kev...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4dcfd0dd$0$19653$882e...@usenet-news.net...
We dog owners are not all like that. I take poop bags with me and my dog is
not allowed on anybody's lawn or anybody's driveway or path.
For what it is worth my dog don't shit or wee outside her own back garden.
She don't even shit or wee when taken on the field.
The OP really should have a word with the owner of the dog.
Dogs can be controlled, their owners can be spoken to.
Cats on the other hand are a law to themselves. Next time you find your
garden full of stinking cat shit and your plants destroyed try to have a
word with their owner and see what response you get.
>
>
Joe Lee
That's when you find that attempting to be a "good" dog owner will lead to
some curtain twitcher reporting you to the RSPCA.
You & I might think that we're simply going out for a dog walk - but it's
actually like going into a minefield, such is the state of our society
nowadays.
So hey hey let's just be careful out there.
--
Joe Lee
Mrcheerful
they are taught to only wee/pee on command
Percy Picacity
news:iqomv5$fn9$1...@dont-email.me:
I find a male dog urinates too suddenly and quickly to control it
after they have started. However, I do not allow the dog to walk
close enough to such borders as the OP describes for it to offend,
and this should work unless the pavement is very narrow. I regular
do this when passing next door's garden: I wish they would
reciprocate by allowing me to shoot their cats when they enter my
garden.
--
Percy Picacity
sid
a water pistol full of vinegar is good for unwanted cats
sid
> We dog owners are not all like that. I take poop bags with me and my dog is
> not allowed on anybody's lawn or anybody's driveway or path.
> For what it is worth my dog don't shit or wee outside her own back garden.
> She don't even shit or wee when taken on the field.
> The OP really should have a word with the owner of the dog.
> Dogs can be controlled, their owners can be spoken to.
> Cats on the other hand are a law to themselves. Next time you find your
> garden full of stinking cat shit and your plants destroyed try to have a
> word with their owner and see what response you get.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>
>
I have a cat raised with my dogs, and it craps the same place they do
(they have a metal run outside). It eats from their dish and sleeps in
their kennel as well.
I would be happy with this cat other than it kills shrews and birds. I
have to have a cat or two because otherwise every autumn we are infested
with mice. I think I may put a bell on the cat in the summer and take it
off around the end of August.
I agree generally cats are a pest, but I live so far from anyone else
there is no chance of my cat annoying anyone else or theirs annoying me.
Kim Bolton
dave wrote:
>Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>
>We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
>public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
>are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>
>The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road while
>they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the flowers.
>Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up saying nothing.
>And the adults don't half know it.
>
>I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
>course they don't.
>
>Thank you. Have a nice day.
Not legal solution, but a chemical warfare one...
Do this at the start of a dry spell:
Get a couple of kilos of cheap onions, chop them into 1cm cubes, and
spread them along your borders by the footpath.
Get a large tub or two of cheap pepper/chili pepper from your local
supermarket, spread that over where you put the chopped onions.
Get a pet-repellant spray, there's one that uses an aluminium
compound, spray that on the leaves of your flowers, it's harmless to
them.
After a couple of weeks, repeat the process using onions and spray.
This will give a month for the dog(s) to break the connection between
your flowers and their peeing/pooing, because it/they don't like the
pong and go somewhere else; being creatures of habit they'll carry on
'going' at the new site.
An occasional top-up with the spray, or the garlic-loaded type of
deterrent will in all probability end the problem for you - it did for
us, in similar circumstances.
--
from
Kim Bolton
mogga
<mike....@yeton.co.uk> wrote:
>In article <Hv-dnZj7JYTNTFLQ...@bt.com>, Maria
><old...@theshoe.org> writes
>>What do you suggest? A nappy? The offence surely is not allowing a dog to
>>foul the pavement - it's the offence of not cleaning it up. If a dog decides to
>>go to the toilet, it's difficult to stop them. Mine is trained to only poo on grass
>>so he waits to get to the park, but urination is difficult to prevent and
>>impossible to clear up.
>
>One wonders how you clean it up after a wet sloppy one, I'm afraid
>letting your dog crap in the park is *very* anti social.
>
Bacon fat apparently.
>>I'm not saying it's not a problem - just that it is not a matter of being anti-
>>social as a dog-owner.
>
>I'm afraid it is, two of my sons own dogs and if they need to pee they
>do it in the gutter, preferably near a drain, they've been trained that
>way.
>
>Mike
--
http://www.bra-and-pants.com -*- http://www.voucherfreebies.co.uk -*- http://www.holidayunder100.co.uk
Mike Tomlinson
<da...@127.0.0.1> writes
>I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
>course they don't.
There are dog repellents - some are pepper-based I think.
A single-wire electric fence? A couple of shocks during a piddle would
soon put them off.
--
Mike Tomlinson
Mike Tomlinson
<m...@privacy.net> writes
>It's marking territory. Put strong bleach down for a few days and it
>should stop it.
That'll do the OP's flowers a lot of good :o)
--
Mike Tomlinson
Jeff
>
> dave wrote:
>
>> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>>
>> We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
>> public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
>> are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>>
>> The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road while
>> they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the flowers.
>> Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up saying nothing.
>> And the adults don't half know it.
>>
>> I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
>> course they don't.
>>
>> Thank you. Have a nice day.
>
> Not legal solution, but a chemical warfare one...
>
> Do this at the start of a dry spell:
>
> Get a couple of kilos of cheap onions, chop them into 1cm cubes, and
> spread them along your borders by the footpath.
>
> Get a large tub or two of cheap pepper/chili pepper from your local
> supermarket, spread that over where you put the chopped onions.
>
> Get a pet-repellant spray, there's one that uses an aluminium
> compound, spray that on the leaves of your flowers, it's harmless to
> them.
>
Not sure that will work, our dog eats raw onion, and I am sure garlic
given the chance!!
Jeff
The Other Mike
>Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>
>We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders the
>public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog owners
>are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>
>The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road while
>they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the flowers.
>Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up saying nothing.
>And the adults don't half know it.
>
>I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
>course they don't.
A couple of options
1) Rub the owners nose in the piss and make them lick it up - all of
it.
2 ) Follow the owner home and piss and shit through their letterbox.
There is also option 3 that makes the problem disappear forever but I
can't mention details of that here :)
--
Mr Pounder
"The Other Mike" <rootpa...@somewhereorother.com> wrote in message
news:oe92t695nspsrlia4...@4ax.com...
Nothing to drastic of course.
>
Kim Bolton
Jeff wrote:
I'll bet a pound to a pinch of dog poo that he doesn't eat onions
laced with chili pepper...
--
from
Kim Bolton
Jeff
He likes hot curry, but I don't like the 'end' result.
Jeff
Ophelia
"Percy Picacity" <k...@under.the.invalid> wrote in message
news:Xns9EE6EEAAA97...@208.90.168.18...
> I find a male dog urinates too suddenly and quickly to control it
> after they have started. However, I do not allow the dog to walk
> close enough to such borders as the OP describes for it to offend,
> and this should work unless the pavement is very narrow. I regular
> do this when passing next door's garden: I wish they would
> reciprocate by allowing me to shoot their cats when they enter my
> garden.
A water pistol will see the off. it worked for me.
--
--
Ophelia
"sid" <bl...@blank.com> wrote in message
news:4dd05eda$0$2516$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Vinegar???
Why vinegar?
--
--
Ophelia
"Kim Bolton" <nos...@all.invalid> wrote in message
news:t3c2t6lr17iihdkb4...@4ax.com...
Onions are poisonous to dogs.
--
--
Jeff
> Onions are poisonous to dogs
So is chocolate, but it doesn't stop them eating it!!
Jeff
Ophelia
"Jeff" <je...@jsystems.com> wrote in message
news:iqrfa2$fqc$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
> On 16/05/2011 16:05, Ophelia wrote:
>> Onions are poisonous to dogs
>
> So is chocolate, but it doesn't stop them eating it!!
I know but my dog eats what I want her to eat unless she gets a *very* rare
chance to steal some.
--
--
Kim Bolton
Ophelia wrote:
Really? I didn't know that....
In that case I suggest the OP uses garlic-laden granule-based pet
repeller instead.
--
from
Kim Bolton
Ophelia
"Kim Bolton" <nos...@all.invalid> wrote in message
news:tpk2t6ltki7l1a0fd...@4ax.com...
I wonder if those high pitched sound things work. I don't allow my dog to
go anywhere on private land, but I can understand the problems should dogs
be allowed. At least the sound things wouldn't physically harm a dog... I
hope. Perhaps the owners need some kind of repellent!
--
--
Mr Pounder
"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
news:93csia...@mid.individual.net...
It smells and cats are not supposed to like it.
Ever tried to squirt a cat with anything?
Antifreeze works.
>
> --
> --
>
> >
Mr Pounder
>
>
> "Kim Bolton" <nos...@all.invalid> wrote in message
> news:tpk2t6ltki7l1a0fd...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Ophelia wrote:
>>
>>>"Kim Bolton" <nos...@all.invalid> wrote in message
>>>news:t3c2t6lr17iihdkb4...@4ax.com...
>>>>
>>>> Jeff wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>On 16/05/2011 08:36, Kim Bolton wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>> Get a couple of kilos of cheap onions, chop them into 1cm cubes, and
>>>>>> spread them along your borders by the footpath.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get a large tub or two of cheap pepper/chili pepper from your local
>>>>>> supermarket, spread that over where you put the chopped onions.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Get a pet-repellant spray, there's one that uses an aluminium
>>>>>> compound, spray that on the leaves of your flowers, it's harmless to
>>>>>> them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Not sure that will work, our dog eats raw onion, and I am sure garlic
>>>>>given the chance!!
>>>>
>>>> I'll bet a pound to a pinch of dog poo that he doesn't eat onions
>>>> laced with chili pepper...
>>>
>>>Onions are poisonous to dogs.
>>
>> Really? I didn't know that....
>>
>> In that case I suggest the OP uses garlic-laden granule-based pet
>> repeller instead.
>
> I wonder if those high pitched sound things work.
They don't work on cats.
Ophelia
"Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
news:aHcAp.544$t41...@newsfe25.ams2...
Ouch!!! I am not a 'cat person' but i would never hurt an animal unless it
were necessary.
--
--
Mr Pounder
After nearly 3 years of having my hands full of stinking cat shit, my plants
being dug up and the cat's owner laughing in my face it was necessary.
>
>
> --
> --
>
> https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
Norman Wells
> They don't work on cats.
Nothing works on cats. The only language they understand is GBH.
Mr Pounder
"Norman Wells" <stib...@unseen.ac.am> wrote in message
news:nnfAp.1387$f95...@newsfe02.ams2...
> Mr Pounder wrote:
>
>> They don't work on cats.
>
> Nothing works on cats. The only language they understand is GBH.
Antifreeze.
I have had no shit in my garden for two months now.
Halfords.
>
sid
They don't like it and hate licking themselves clean afterwards, the
smell stays on them ages too, they don't like even a water filled water
pistol but soon get over that. Vinegar gives them something to think
about for quite a while.
sid
You can legally shoot cats on your own land if they are a pest, as long
as they don't suffer. An FAC rated air rifle is quite powerful enough to
kill them legally without them suffering.
I have a relative who had a big problem with cats crapping all over the
garden, which is used for food produce as well as flowers. Being a cat
person (but not owning a cat!) they have resorted to chicken wire
everywhere. It works quite well, the cats don't try climbing it twice,
it won't support them, they can't sit on it either so it's made a nice
little oasis where birds are safe among all the other gardens full of
cat crap.
Ophelia
"Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
news:IUeAp.5826$6K4....@newsfe14.ams2...
Fair enough! I am surprised they still come though when you have a dog.
Does it not see them off?
--
--
Ophelia
"sid" <bl...@blank.com> wrote in message
news:4dd194fc$0$12165$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>> Why vinegar?
>>
>
> They don't like it and hate licking themselves clean afterwards, the smell
> stays on them ages too, they don't like even a water filled water pistol
> but soon get over that. Vinegar gives them something to think about for
> quite a while.
But, it doesn't harm them physically?
--
--
Ophelia
"sid" <bl...@blank.com> wrote in message
news:4dd195bb$0$12160$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
In order to shoot a cat, even on your own land, you would have to be able to
prove that you had good reason to believe that it was feral i.e. not the
property of any person (remember the burden of that proof rests with you),
because whether stray or not a cat is deemed to remain the property of the
original owner and, under the Criminal Damage Act 1971, because the law
regards cats as property, on offence is commited if a person, without lawful
excuse kills or injures a cat belonging to another person.
If the cat is simply a nuisance e.g. defecating on the garden and digging
the soil to cover it, you would not have lawful excuse. If the cat was
killing domestic stock e.g. birds in an aviary, and you could prove there
was no other way to stop it, then you might be judged to have lawful excuse.
You would however have to comply with all other laws, e.g. if using a FAC
rated air rifle you would have to have permission on the FAC to allow its
use for that purpose in that location. Even if you used a non-FAC air rifle
you would have to comply with the law regarding distance from any public
right of way and ensuring that no pellet travelled beyond the boundary of
your own property.
--
--
ARWadsworth
You could keep a snake in the garden
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5999091/Pet-cat-eaten-by-13ft-python.html>
--
Adam
ARWadsworth
You could keep a snake in the garden
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/5999091/Pet-cat-eaten-by-13ft-python.html>
--
Adam
Ophelia
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iquj5m$aov$1...@dont-email.me...
Not sure about any law on that:)
--
--
ARWadsworth
The RSPCA gave a verbal warning. Is that legal? It was the owners garden and
snake. If the cat climbed into a garden with a dog and was killed would the
RSPCA issue a warning to the dog owner?
I'll just put it down to nature.
--
Adam
sid
If you have an FAC and are on your own land, you already have permission
to use it, since you are the person who gives permission, not the
certificate. They are issued either for vermin control or sporting
purposes (target shooting etc).
Cats are legally semi-domesticated, which is slightly different, they
have less protection than dogs. For example, if you hit one with a car
there is no requirement to notify the police.
Ophelia
"ARWadsworth" <adamwa...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iqul6a$p17$1...@dont-email.me...
It depends. In this case the owner of the snake was warned about its proper
housing and control, but if a dog properly confined in its owner's garden
attacked and killed a cat that entered the garden then it is unlikely any
action would be taken, provided of course the dog wasn't one classified
under the dangerous dogs act.
--
--
sid
>
>
> "sid" <bl...@blank.com> wrote in message
> news:4dd194fc$0$12165$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>>> Why vinegar?
>>>
>>
>> They don't like it and hate licking themselves clean afterwards, the
>> smell stays on them ages too, they don't like even a water filled
>> water pistol but soon get over that. Vinegar gives them something to
>> think about for quite a while.
>
> But, it doesn't harm them physically?
I doubt it, if someone is worried about ingesting too much vinegar
perhaps water the vinegar down a bit, but I doubt they swallow much of
it when cleaning themselves.
sid
Even if it was, it is allowed to be unmuzzled on private property,
assuming it is being kept in accordance with regulations (ie chipped and
neutered)
ARWadsworth
Is it illegal to keep a snake in a garden?
--
Adam
sid
>
>
Cats will take quite a range of prey, including rabbits and leverets,
I've seen them do it. My own cat brought a leveret home last week.
I think they are quite capable of taking young game birds.
Ophelia
"sid" <bl...@blank.com> wrote in message
news:4dd2dcb8$0$12155$fa0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Nonsense! the FAC will state categorically where and for what purpose you
may use any firearm (including any air rifle that is classified as such) and
ammunition listed on it. Your garden might not be judged suitable for such
use, depending on its size, surrounding land and buildings, etc. If that was
not the case you could, under your concept, equally use a .22 cartridge
rifle or for that matter a .308 deer rifle in your garden simply because it
is 'your own land'. Firearms certificates may be issued for a variety of
reasons, including game shooting, vermin control, target shooting, and
others, but where they are used and for what is always listed. e.g. unless
it is specifically stated on a FAC, you cannot lawfully shoot a rifle,
certificated for game or vermin shooting on listed land, at a target even
for the purposes of checking the sights. If you want to do that then you
have to specify it during application for the certificate and have it
included in the conditions listed on it. It is possible to specify more
general locations e.g. 'on own or other suitable land where appropriate
permission has been granted', but the police will want to check that land
and if it is not considered suitable for any reason e.g. it is crossed by or
too close to any area or right of way to which the public have access, then
the certificate will be restricted in an appropriate manner. If you used any
rifle classified as a firearm to shoot any animal, including those
specifically listed as vermin, on land where you were not certificated to do
so - and specifically with the firearm used - you would be liable to
prosecution, would certainly lose your FAC and any weapon involved in the
offence and would also be liable to a fine and imprisonment.
As stated above, cats are classified as the property of their owners. There
might be differences in their protection where an accident is involved but
the Criminal Damage Act 1971 applies where the action taken against them is
deliberate.
Do not talk crap when you are talking about the law! If you leave yourself
open to prosecution that is your business, but if you give other people
false information and they drop themselves in it because of you then you are
not only stupid but totally irresponsible!
--
--
Ophelia
Norman Wells
No, you never have to comply with the law. That's a complete fallacy. All
you have to do is undergo any punishment if you are detected and found
guilty. So, what you should do is weigh up the likelihood of being caught
and convicted, both of which are rather unlikely, against the benefit of
getting rid of a defecating, pissing, spraying, yowling, obnoxious nuisance
for whom the 'owners' will deny all and every responsibility going.
Seems a fair deal to me.
Norman Wells
> As stated above, cats are classified as the property of their owners.
So they're 'owned' but the 'owners' have no responsibitiy for what they do.
Don't you see some imbalance here?
ARWadsworth
It reminds me of the ex-wife.
--
Adam
sid
I used to hold an FAC, so I am not talking crap. It stated on it what I
was allowed to do with it, and vermin control is a wide term. How am I
giving false information? have you held an FAC? I still have my old FAC
here, and I can tell you quite clearly it does not restrict me to where
I can shoot, all I needed was a letter of permission from the relevant
landowner, neither do I need any variation on it to shoot on my own land
more than 50 yards from the highway. When applying for the first FAC
(not for renewals) I had to provide 3 letters showing where I would
shoot, subsequent to that I was able to shoot on other land without
informing the police as long as I held letter of permission. The police
do not go out and check the land I am shooting over, they already know
the landowners around here, they don't have to go out annoying people.
My FAC does not show the locations of where I am allowed to shoot for
that very reason, it states only how much ammunition I was allowed to
keep, what the serial number of the firearm was, and what I was allowed
to use the gun for.
If you want to call me stupid for knowing the contents of my own FAC,
and how the system works over here that's fine, but you're wrong.
Also, where I live there are certainly feral cats, that have hardly had
any contact with humans, and if I still kept ducks I would be quite
within my rights to shoot them.
sid
Incidentally, it is very stupid to not zero a scope. Otherwise you risk
causing a wound to an animal instead of a clean kill because you are not
going to necessarily hit where you think you are aiming. It's quite
normal to zero a scope on a rifle before going hunting and that involves
firing (usually) it 5 or so times. I've never heard of anyone hunting on
open sights with a rifle, I assume it might happen in the wild west, if
you mean a shotgun, there is nothing to adjust so you wouldn't fire one
to check the sights.
sid
I should add, I am not talking about someone's back garden, I said land,
as in agricultural land. Not everyone lives in the town you know.
sid
>
>
> "Kim Bolton" <nos...@all.invalid> wrote in message
> news:t3c2t6lr17iihdkb4...@4ax.com...
>>
>> Jeff wrote:
>>
>>> On 16/05/2011 08:36, Kim Bolton wrote:
>>
>>>> Get a couple of kilos of cheap onions, chop them into 1cm cubes, and
>>>> spread them along your borders by the footpath.
>>>>
>>>> Get a large tub or two of cheap pepper/chili pepper from your local
>>>> supermarket, spread that over where you put the chopped onions.
>>>>
>>>> Get a pet-repellant spray, there's one that uses an aluminium
>>>> compound, spray that on the leaves of your flowers, it's harmless to
>>>> them.
>>>
>>> Not sure that will work, our dog eats raw onion, and I am sure garlic
>>> given the chance!!
>>
>> I'll bet a pound to a pinch of dog poo that he doesn't eat onions
>> laced with chili pepper...
>
> Onions are poisonous to dogs.
So is chocolate. I still cannot fathom why some petshops sell chocolate
drops for dogs.
Jeff
>> Onions are poisonous to dogs.
>
> So is chocolate. I still cannot fathom why some petshops sell chocolate
> drops for dogs.
Read the packet, they are specially formulated not to be poisonous!!
Jeff
Norman Wells
> If you want to call me stupid for knowing the contents of my own FAC,
> and how the system works over here that's fine, but you're wrong.
>
> Also, where I live there are certainly feral cats, that have hardly
> had any contact with humans, and if I still kept ducks I would be
> quite within my rights to shoot them.
Worth getting a duck just for that then.
Ophelia
"sid" <bl...@blank.com> wrote in message
news:4dd30628$0$2511$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
I have held a FAC and SGC for over 40 years and still do. The application of
the law varies between constabularies but its application is becoming
increasingly tight. The conditions of use are listed quite specifically.
Where you shoot may allow some leeway e.g. 'on authorised ranges' covers
such ranges anywhere in the UK, 'on suitable land where authorised' is also
common, but if for example the certificate specifies that the reason for use
is for shooting vermin that does not apply to domestic cats because they are
not included in the list of vermin, nor would it apply to hares which are
also not listed because they are classed as game. What is considered
suitable land depends on the calibre and type of ammunition being used and
its intended purpose. If someone with a FAC for a .22 for vermin control was
to shoot a fox in their back garden in a suburban housing estate they might
not be prosecuted but would almost certainly lose the FAC for unsafe
practice. The firearms licencing department might well know their area well
enough to be able to judge whather the land is suitable without having to
visit it, particularly if a class of use has been allowed there previously
but there are many cases where applications are refused because the
application is not specific enough, or where it is not considered safe
because there is public access (e.g. a road or right of way) too close to
the shooting area and even because the specified land does not contain
sufficient numbers of the intended prey to justify a certificate which will
last for 5 years. There is a recent case of a landowner denied a rifle for
taking feral boar on his land because there were too few, it was considered
more suitable that he called in an already certificated pest controller to
do the job. I don't know how long it is since you held that FAC but the
laws and application of them are changing and the changes are always to make
it more difficult to get one and allow any reason to remove that permission
where possible.
And just to add, you were talking about shooting cats in your garden!
--
--
Ophelia
"Jeff" <je...@jsystems.com> wrote in message
news:iqvplq$g8v$2...@speranza.aioe.org...
Indeed, that is a given, but not all dog owners know that and might think
*all* chocolate is safe.
--
--
Ophelia
"sid" <bl...@blank.com> wrote in message
news:4dd30b0e$0$2518$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Aye, it beggars belief:(
--
--
Ophelia
"sid" <bl...@blank.com> wrote in message
news:4dd3096b$0$2518$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
Yes, of course it is stupid to hunt with a rifle if you haven't checked its
sights, and most people do each time they go out. If you do it in a suitable
area where you have permission to shoot that type of rifle and only fire a
few shots the likelyhood is it will never be reported or commented on, but
that isn't the point here. The fact is that if your certificate is not
annotated to allow that then you may be prosecuted for unauthorised use. It
isn't a matter of what you can and do get away with but of what the law
stipulates. Just because people have got away with things in the past
doesn't mean they will in the future, and the consequences can be dire. Why
do that when it is easy to add the requirement to check zero when applying
in the first place? There is currently a move being promulgated by ACPO to
require that every shooter shooting over open land notifies their local
police each time thye go out of where they will be, when, what they will be
using and the registration of any vehicle being used. That is to restrict
the number of time the police have to respond to reports from members of the
public that 'they have just seen a man with a gun'! but it is a indication
of the increasing restrictions all shooters are facing. We don't want to
make that worse by giving any examples of misuse to be quoted as supporting
the need for those extra restrictions.
Anyway, I will be off line most of the day because we are on a farm in North
Yorks... <g> A bit overcast but it looks like the weather will hold up:))
--
--
sid
So far my own cat seems to keep them away, even more effectively than
the dogs.
sid
No, I was replying to someone talking about gardens, but I was thinking
of my own situation, my garden is nowhere near anyone and surrounded by
fields. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. Of course, you can't go out
blasting cats with a shotgun in the middle of london, but then how many
people have one in the middle of london? Having said that I do know of
someone who used to shoot rats with in the garden out with a 12 gauge
sitting on the bathroom window ledge many years ago, the neighbours
didn't complain because they were glad of the rats being dealt with.
I think anyone with an FAC would be aware of what they couldn't do with
it, it's so much hassle to get one and keep one. I think in GB the law
ought to be tighter for air rifles, too many idiots get one and start
taking pot shots at cats, children and flower pots.
The law here was/is stricter than GB, we were required to notify
where/when we were planning on going and what we were wearing (as you
say is suggested to come into force in GB) but I think that was pretty
widely ignored. There are no shotgun certs. here, its all FAC, rifle,
air rifle, or shotgun. Since you hold both you will know the shotgun
cert. is much easier to get than an FAC. I had heard things were more
relaxed here than before, and 3 letters of permission are no longer
needed, 1 is enough. It would make sense here, because it was so strict
in the past. I'm sure you are right in GB it is being tightened up, but
there is a huge problem with gun crime in GB, of a completely different
kind to here.
Hares are game yes, but a licence that states "for vermin control and
sporting purposes" would cover clay shooting and game as well as vermin.
I'm glad there are no feral boar near me, very dangerous creatures.
sid
> Yes, of course it is stupid to hunt with a rifle if you haven't checked
> its sights, and most people do each time they go out. If you do it in a
> suitable area where you have permission to shoot that type of rifle and
> only fire a few shots the likelyhood is it will never be reported or
> commented on, but that isn't the point here. The fact is that if your
> certificate is not annotated to allow that then you may be prosecuted
> for unauthorised use. It isn't a matter of what you can and do get away
> with but of what the law stipulates. Just because people have got away
> with things in the past doesn't mean they will in the future, and the
> consequences can be dire. Why do that when it is easy to add the
> requirement to check zero when applying in the first place? There is
> currently a move being promulgated by ACPO to require that every shooter
> shooting over open land notifies their local police each time thye go
> out of where they will be, when, what they will be using and the
> registration of any vehicle being used.
We are supposed to do that here already, I've been buzzed by a very low
helicopter in the past when I forgot to do so. that was a moment I won't
forget in a hurry.
That is to restrict the number
> of time the police have to respond to reports from members of the public
> that 'they have just seen a man with a gun'! but it is a indication of
> the increasing restrictions all shooters are facing. We don't want to
> make that worse by giving any examples of misuse to be quoted as
> supporting the need for those extra restrictions.
I completely agree, that seems to happen a lot in GB and incidents like
Derek Bird have made the situation even worse. I think in rural areas
here it's pretty unlikely anyone would bother ringing up in a panic
because they saw someone going shooting, the only time I ever bumped
into anyone was when they came over to tell me the best place to find
rabbits, because they wanted me to get rid of them.
>
> Anyway, I will be off line most of the day because we are on a farm in
> North Yorks... <g> A bit overcast but it looks like the weather will
> hold up:))
Well I'm glad you're not getting our weather, the sun only comes out
here to trick us into thinking we don't need a coat, and once we are out
the heavens open and we have so much rain i'm suprised there is not
frogs in it.
sid
I don't think my dogs would be able to read it though...
Mr Pounder
"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
news:93eo27...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> "Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
> news:IUeAp.5826$6K4....@newsfe14.ams2...
>>
>> "Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
>> news:93d3nh...@mid.individual.net...
>>>
>>>
>>> "Mr Pounder" <MrPo...@RationalThought.com> wrote in message
>>> news:aHcAp.544$t41...@newsfe25.ams2...
>>>>
>>>> "Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
>>>> news:93csia...@mid.individual.net...>>>>> news:4dd05eda$0$2516$db0f...@news.zen.co.uk...
>>>>>> On 15/05/11 23:27, Percy Picacity wrote:
>>>>>>> "Mentalguy2k8"<Mental...@gmail.com> wrote in
>>>>>>> news:iqomv5$fn9$1...@dont-email.me:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> "dave"<da...@127.0.0.1> wrote in message
>>>>>>>> news:tcivs6ltmld1givs5...@4ax.com...
>>>>>>>>> Does the offence of fog fouling include them urinating?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> We try to grow some flowers at edge of our garden which borders
>>>>>>>>> the public pavement (well, brightens the place up a bit), but dog
>>>>>>>>> owners are happy to let their dogs pee all over them.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> The latest trick is for an adult to walk ahead down the road
>>>>>>>>> while they leave a child stay with the dog while it pees over the
>>>>>>>>> flowers. Can't bring myself to tell an 8 year old off so end up
>>>>>>>>> saying nothing. And the adults don't half know it.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> I mean they could easily pull the animal to the kerbside - but of
>>>>>>>>> course they don't.
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Thank you. Have a nice day.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> You could try an ultrasonic repellent, I put one in my garden to
>>>>>>>> stop cats shitting in my borders, it seems to work as I haven't
>>>>>>>> found any lately. You could set it up at right-angles to your gate
>>>>>>>> so it "aims" (movement sensor) along the entire border and some of
>>>>>>>> the pavement. As soon as it detects movement, it sets off a very
>>>>>>>> high-pitched sound for a few seconds and seems to scare the
>>>>>>>> animals off.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Beauty of it is, it works on kids too. I think if you're over the
>>>>>>>> age of about 30 you won't hear it as hearing declines with age.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Or put a little wall up. You don't have to "tell the child off",
>>>>>>>> maybe you could politely show him/her the damage it is doing, or
>>>>>>>> you could speak to the parent if they're waiting further up the
>>>>>>>> road.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I find a male dog urinates too suddenly and quickly to control it
>>>>>>> after they have started. However, I do not allow the dog to walk
>>>>>>> close enough to such borders as the OP describes for it to offend,
>>>>>>> and this should work unless the pavement is very narrow. I regular
>>>>>>> do this when passing next door's garden: I wish they would
>>>>>>> reciprocate by allowing me to shoot their cats when they enter my
>>>>>>> garden.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> a water pistol full of vinegar is good for unwanted cats
>>>>>
>>>>> Vinegar???
>>>>>
>>>>> Why vinegar?
>>>>
>>>> It smells and cats are not supposed to like it.
>>>> Ever tried to squirt a cat with anything?
>>>>
>>>> Antifreeze works.
>>>
>>> Ouch!!! I am not a 'cat person' but i would never hurt an animal
>>> unless
>>> it were necessary.
>>
>> plants being dug up and the cat's owner laughing in my face it was
>> necessary.
>
> Fair enough! I am surprised they still come though when you have a dog.
> Does it not see them off?
> --
> --
>
> https://www.shop.helpforheroes.org.uk/
The dog is too bloody yappy to be allowed in the front garden. I will not
having her upsetting people by barking. Plus bitches urine kills grass. She
has decimated my back lawn.
>