Lottery Tickets Risky On Shopping Till Receipts

[Turk182]

On two or three occasions I have bought a Lotto ticket, and instead of
being printed on the thick, pink, familiar ticket, the numbers have
been printed on a scruffy white standard shopping till receipt.

In one WH Smiths, even though they have a proper lottery machine, they
have told their staff only to issue standard till receipts.

You have to be particulalry careful with the white till receipt, as
they can easily got lost among other receipts, and it is all too easy
to forget how the lottery numbers were handed to you.

Another issue; a Tesco receipt purchaed last week, already had the
lottery numbers badly faded from the outset.

My guess is, that Camelot, will have made a few million more out of
lost tickets as a result of the scruffy version now more widely being
issued.

Turk182

[Mrcheerful]

buy them online

[Turk182]

> buy them online- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

Yes .... logical I suppose!

Turk182

[Graham.]

I stopped buying petrol at my local Tesco for a while because the
receipts were so badly printed.
It became a damn nuisance at the end of the month when I came to do my
expenses.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Turk182]

> %Profound_observation%- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

One Shell Station I go to must use invisible ink ...it fades! Before
you get home you have to photo copy the receipt or the next day ... it
will be too late!

I like the B&Q orange coloured receipts .... dead easy if you have to
take something back!

Turk182

[Theodore]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Turk182

Are you always this thick or is today special? Who the fuck cares if
you're too stupid to lose your lottery ticket just because it's on a
plain white till receipt? Honestly, you're clearly too thick to know
what to do with the winnings anyway.

[Peter Johnson]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:28:04 -0700 (PDT), Turk182
<digital...@aol.com> wrote:


>
>I like the B&Q orange coloured receipts .... dead easy if you have to
>take something back!

They haven't been orange the last several times that I've been.

[Cynic]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Turk182
<digital...@aol.com> wrote:

>On two or three occasions I have bought a Lotto ticket, and instead of
>being printed on the thick, pink, familiar ticket, the numbers have
>been printed on a scruffy white standard shopping till receipt.

>In one WH Smiths, even though they have a proper lottery machine, they
>have told their staff only to issue standard till receipts.

I find that very difficult to believe. A normal till cannot read the
lottery card that is filled in by the customer, and it cannot print
out a set of lottery numbers on its receipt. That's quite apart from
the fact that a normal till would not be able to send the numbers on
the ticket bought to the lottery computer database, so such a ticket
would be invalid.

All I can think is that the shop ran out of the rolls of
lottery-machine paper and substituted a normal till roll in its place.

--
Cynic

[Graham.]

I think it's called a "Lucky Dip" or something similar. Basically the
customer doesn't pick the numbers, the EPOS picks them at random.

--
Graham.
%Profound_observation%

[Cynic]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:22:48 +0100, Graham. <m...@privacy.net> wrote:

>>>On two or three occasions I have bought a Lotto ticket, and instead of
>>>being printed on the thick, pink, familiar ticket, the numbers have
>>>been printed on a scruffy white standard shopping till receipt.
>>
>>>In one WH Smiths, even though they have a proper lottery machine, they
>>>have told their staff only to issue standard till receipts.
>>
>>I find that very difficult to believe. A normal till cannot read the
>>lottery card that is filled in by the customer, and it cannot print
>>out a set of lottery numbers on its receipt. That's quite apart from
>>the fact that a normal till would not be able to send the numbers on
>>the ticket bought to the lottery computer database, so such a ticket
>>would be invalid.
>>
>>All I can think is that the shop ran out of the rolls of
>>lottery-machine paper and substituted a normal till roll in its place.
>
>I think it's called a "Lucky Dip" or something similar. Basically the
>customer doesn't pick the numbers, the EPOS picks them at random.

A normal till does not have the ability to make up 6 random numbers,
and nor is it connected to the national lottery computer in order to
register those numbers.

Unless there's been a development that hasn't reached my area yet, and
shop tills are being programmed and connected so that they can double
as lottery ticket terminals.

--
Cynic

[Turk182]

On Apr 12, 2:53 pm, cynic_...@yahoo.co.uk (Cynic) wrote:
> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Turk182
>

Yep .... it's true.... Tesco and Asda have been selling lottery
tickets at the tills for quite a while now - and they just get thrown
out like any other receipt on exactly the same paper - and there is
the risk! I remembered I had bought the lottery ticket, but was
looking for a pink ticket!

Both Asda and Smiths also have given me tickets from an ordinary till,
even though they have a dedicated blue lottery machine right next to
them!

Turk182

[Turk182]

On Apr 12, 1:30 pm, Peter Johnson <pe...@nospam.narrowgaugeuk.co.uk>
wrote:

> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 16:28:04 -0700 (PDT), Turk182
>

> <digitalradi...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >I like the B&Q orange coloured receipts .... dead easy if you have to
> >take something back!
>
> They haven't been orange the last several times that I've been.

Are you thinkiing of Ann Summers?

Turk182

[IanAl]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:12:17 -0700 (PDT), Turk182
<digital...@aol.com> wrote:

>On Apr 12, 2:53 pm, cynic_...@yahoo.co.uk (Cynic) wrote:
>> On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Turk182
>>
>> <digitalradi...@aol.com> wrote:
>> >On two or three occasions I have bought a Lotto ticket, and instead of
>> >being printed on the thick, pink, familiar ticket, the numbers have
>> >been printed on a scruffy white standard shopping till receipt.
>> >In one WH Smiths, even though they have a proper lottery machine, they
>> >have told their staff only to issue standard till receipts.
>>
>> I find that very difficult to believe. A normal till cannot read the
>> lottery card that is filled in by the customer, and it cannot print
>> out a set of lottery numbers on its receipt.  That's quite apart from
>> the fact that a normal till would not be able to send the numbers on
>> the ticket bought to the lottery computer database, so such a ticket
>> would be invalid.
>>
>> All I can think is that the shop ran out of the rolls of
>> lottery-machine paper and substituted a normal till roll in its place.

>Yep .... it's true.... Tesco and Asda have been selling lottery
>tickets at the tills for quite a while now - and they just get thrown
>out like any other receipt on exactly the same paper - and there is
>the risk! I remembered I had bought the lottery ticket, but was
>looking for a pink ticket!

Well they do call the Lottery the "stupidity tax."

[Turk182]

> Well they do call the Lottery the "stupidity tax."- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

John Major called it "a bit of fun". His "bit of fun" converted most
newsagents in Britain into casinos. The only difference between the
newsagent and William Hill are the dubious 'good causes' that the BBC
like to remind us about - overlooking the fact that it is gambling
pure and simple with all it's risks and pretences.

Turk182

[Andy Burns]

Cynic wrote:

> A normal till does not have the ability to make up 6 random numbers,
> and nor is it connected to the national lottery computer in order to
> register those numbers.

I would tend to assume the random numbers aren't generated in the real
lottery terminals either, just have a few decent RNGs at lottery HQ,
rather than a crappy one in each terminal.

[Mel Rowing]

On Apr 11, 10:50 pm, Turk182 <digitalradi...@aol.com> wrote:

> You have to be particulalry careful with the white till receipt, as
> they can easily got lost among other receipts, and it is all too easy
> to forget how the lottery numbers were handed to you.
>
> Another issue; a Tesco receipt purchaed last week, already had the
> lottery numbers badly faded from the outset.
>
> My guess is, that Camelot, will have made a few million more out of
> lost tickets as a result of the scruffy version now more widely being
> issued.

"What if my draw-based game ticket has not been produced at all, or
has been partly produced, by a Till-point Terminal? Or it has been
lost, stolen or destroyed?

You should send a written notice to Prize Payout Department, The
National Lottery, PO Box 287, Watford, Herts WD18 9TT. The notice
should contain as much information as possible, including the game
played, the relevant draw date, your chosen numbers and the date, time
and place of purchase.

If your ticket has not been produced at all by a Till-point Terminal,
or has been lost, stolen or destroyed, you must make sure that your
completed claim reaches Camelot by 5:00pm on the 30th day after the
date of the relevant draw. If you have provided sufficient evidence to
do so, Camelot will then inform you of your numbers (if applicable)
and will investigate and consider whether or not the prize claim is
valid. If your ticket would have covered more than one draw, Camelot
must receive your claim by 5:00pm on the 30th day after the first draw
your ticket would have been entered into.

If your ticket has been partly produced, you must make sure your
completed claim reaches Camelot by 5:00pm on the 180th day after the
date of the relevant draw. Camelot will then determine at its
discretion whether you have a valid claim. If your ticket would have
covered more than one draw for the same game, Camelot must recieve
your claim by 5:00pm on the 180th day after the first draw your ticket
would have been entered into."

http://www.national-lottery.co.uk/player/p/help/playinginstore/winners.ftl

In fact it would appear as though this type of ticket is more secure
than more familiar ticket which of lost reamins lost!

[Turk182]

> what to do with the winnings anyway.- Hide quoted text -

>
> - Show quoted text -

You found the power on switch then!

Turk182

[Nightjar]

On 12/04/2012 19:32, Cynic wrote:
> On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 17:22:48 +0100, Graham.<m...@privacy.net> wrote:

...

>> I think it's called a "Lucky Dip" or something similar. Basically the
>> customer doesn't pick the numbers, the EPOS picks them at random.
>
> A normal till does not have the ability to make up 6 random numbers,
> and nor is it connected to the national lottery computer in order to
> register those numbers.
>
> Unless there's been a development that hasn't reached my area yet, and
> shop tills are being programmed and connected so that they can double
> as lottery ticket terminals.

Lottery sales at the checkout, using the normal sales terminals, has
been available in supermarkets for quite some time. I suspect that you
simply haven't been interested enough to notice.

Colin Bignell

[Nightjar]

On 12/04/2012 21:10, inv...@invalid.invalid wrote:

> Gambling profits only the provider. Not the participant.

If the participants didn't profit sometimes, it wouldn't be a gamble.

Colin Bignell

[Alex Heney]

On Wed, 11 Apr 2012 14:50:55 -0700 (PDT), Turk182

<digital...@aol.com> wrote:


>
>My guess is, that Camelot, will have made a few million more out of
>lost tickets as a result of the scruffy version now more widely being
>issued.

It is a good thing you said it was your guess, rater than trying to
claim it as fact.

You are of course, quite wrong.

Camelot do not gain from unclaimed prizes.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
If voting changed anything, they'd make it illegal.
To reply by email, my address is alexDOTheneyATgmailDOTcom

[Alex Heney]

You obviously haven't been there for a while.

They changed the colour a good while back.

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager

Take my advice, I don't use it anyway.

[Alex Heney]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 13:53:20 GMT, cyni...@yahoo.co.uk (Cynic) wrote:

They can't do the filled in paper tickets, but people who use regular
numbers often have cards with a barcode on them.

Those *can* be read by a normal till, and if the till is connected
right, it can certainly send the numbers.

You can also buy "lucky dip" entries at normal tills in places such as
Tesco.

But if you are bothered by not having them on the normal pink slips,
then just don't buy them at the standard till, buy them only at the
actual lottery tills.

As usual, Turk182 making a mountain out of something any mole would be
ashamed to call a hill.

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager

A bad random number generator: 1, 1, 1, 4.33e+67, 1, 1, 1

[David D S]

Turk182 wrote:

> [...]

> John Major called it "a bit of fun". His "bit of fun" converted most
> newsagents in Britain into casinos. The only difference between the
> newsagent and William Hill are the dubious 'good causes' that the BBC
> like to remind us about - overlooking the fact that it is gambling
> pure and simple with all it's risks and pretences.

For some reason this reminded me of an Old Spitting Image sketch in
which
John Major and others were discussing what to do with all the disused
buildings
around the country that used to be Public Conveniences. About a number,
in turn,
his comments went like this, IIRC:

"I know, let's call it a university!"

--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2012/4/13 8:20:15

[Alex Heney]

There has, although I didn't realise you were *quite* that far out in
the sticks (note the date on the link below).

http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2004/apr/29/supermarkets.lottery

I believe they were available at all Tesco tills by the end of 2005.

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager

It's not hard to meet expenses, they're everywhere!

[Cynic]

I have no idea, but I don't see why you need a particularly good RNG
to spew out 6 lottery numbers so there is no reason why it *shouldn't*
be generated by the terminal.

In any case, even if it is Camelot's computer that generates all the
random "lucky dip" numbers, the till couldn't do it because it has no
access to Camelot's computer.

--
Cynic

[Cynic]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 20:54:53 +0100, Nightjar
<c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:

>> Unless there's been a development that hasn't reached my area yet, and
>> shop tills are being programmed and connected so that they can double
>> as lottery ticket terminals.
>
>Lottery sales at the checkout, using the normal sales terminals, has
>been available in supermarkets for quite some time. I suspect that you
>simply haven't been interested enough to notice.

All the supermarkets I visit have the same lottery ticket terminal(s)
at the tobacco kiosk that they have had for years. I've never seen
any notices saying that lottery tickets are available anywhere else,
nor have I ever been asked at a checkout whether I would like to buy
a lottery ticket, so there was really no reason why I should have
known such a thing until this thread.

Do supermarket checkouts accept bets on horseraces these days as well?

--
Cynic

[Cynic]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 01:21:54 +0100, Alex Heney <m...@privacy.net>
wrote:

>>Unless there's been a development that hasn't reached my area yet, and
>>shop tills are being programmed and connected so that they can double
>>as lottery ticket terminals.

>There has, although I didn't realise you were *quite* that far out in
>the sticks (note the date on the link below).

>http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2004/apr/29/supermarkets.lottery

>I believe they were available at all Tesco tills by the end of 2005.

Well I never! Brighton is not all *that* far out in the sticks, but I
must admit that I never knew that. It certainly has not been
advertised all that well in any of the supermarkets I frequent, and I
routinely see a queue of people at the tobacco kiosk who want only to
purchase a lottery ticket, so I guess they are similarly ignirant of
the availability at the tills.

--
Cynic

[Cynic]

On Thu, 12 Apr 2012 12:12:17 -0700 (PDT), Turk182
<digital...@aol.com> wrote:

>Yep .... it's true.... Tesco and Asda have been selling lottery
>tickets at the tills for quite a while now - and they just get thrown
>out like any other receipt on exactly the same paper - and there is
>the risk! I remembered I had bought the lottery ticket, but was
>looking for a pink ticket!
>
>Both Asda and Smiths also have given me tickets from an ordinary till,
>even though they have a dedicated blue lottery machine right next to
>them!

Yes, so other posters have told me. Well, I live & learn! I've seen
plentry of signs saying that I can do phone top-ups and insurance and
other strange things at the supermarket checkouts, but I have never
once noticed any signs telling me that I can buy a lottery ticket
except at the kiosk with the dedicated blue terminal.

--
Cynic

[Andy Burns]

Cynic wrote:

> I don't see why you need a particularly good RNG
> to spew out 6 lottery numbers so there is no reason why it *shouldn't*
> be generated by the terminal.

I was going to say ... you wouldn't want some "external" influence
causing them all to tend to generate the same 6 numbers e.g. the first
ticket generated after the clocks change or whatever ... but then again
amongst lottery players there are supposedly *lots* that pick
1-2-3-4-5-6 on the grounds that it's "obviously" far less likely to come
up and have to share the winnings, so yeah let them suck up whatever
numbers it spits out.

There was some twerp on the radio the other day claiming that because
the balls machine has to pick the same 6 numbers as the terminal picked,
this made a lucky dip less likely to win than picking numbers by hand,
because the same 6 numbers had to be picked twice to win!

> In any case, even if it is Camelot's computer that generates all the
> random "lucky dip" numbers, the till couldn't do it because it has no
> access to Camelot's computer.

Except (and I didn't know either) apparently tills can nowadays.

[Cynic]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 15:25:23 +0100, Andy Burns
<usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> wrote:

>> I don't see why you need a particularly good RNG
>> to spew out 6 lottery numbers so there is no reason why it *shouldn't*
>> be generated by the terminal.

>I was going to say ... you wouldn't want some "external" influence
>causing them all to tend to generate the same 6 numbers e.g. the first
>ticket generated after the clocks change or whatever ... but then again
>amongst lottery players there are supposedly *lots* that pick
>1-2-3-4-5-6 on the grounds that it's "obviously" far less likely to come
>up and have to share the winnings, so yeah let them suck up whatever
>numbers it spits out.

Even without dedicated RNG hardware it is trivial to arrange a pseudo
RNG software algorithm that produces a different sequence of numbers
on every machine it runs on. Simply include some event that will be
different for every machine.

Personally I would probably use the total number of microseconds that
each key was held down by the till operator to derive a seed. e.g.
use the key-down time of the last 10 keystrokes in microseconds -
modulo 256 - as a 10 byte input to an MD5 algorithm, and use its
result to derive the 6 random numbers.

>There was some twerp on the radio the other day claiming that because
>the balls machine has to pick the same 6 numbers as the terminal picked,
>this made a lucky dip less likely to win than picking numbers by hand,
>because the same 6 numbers had to be picked twice to win!

Yes, obvious rubbish. The probability of any set of 6 numbers coming
up is the same no matter how those numbers were chosen. It is however
far more likely that several people will hand-select the same 6
numbers than for a machine to select the same 6 pseudo-random numbers,
even if the RNG algorithm is pretty poor. That's because people are
likely to base their choices on things that do not use the whole range
of choices for each number. Dates will use only 1-31 in the "day of
the month" position, and just 1-12 in the "month" position, for
example.

So whilst any method used to choose the numbers will result in the
same probability of winning the jackpot, some methods will have a
lower chance than others of ending up *sharing* the jackpot with
several other punters.

>> In any case, even if it is Camelot's computer that generates all the
>> random "lucky dip" numbers, the till couldn't do it because it has no
>> access to Camelot's computer.

>Except (and I didn't know either) apparently tills can nowadays.

Yes, as I have just learned, apparently so.

--
Cynic

[Alex Heney]

Very likely.

Or they prefer (like Turk182) to have the "proper" tickets that stand
out from their general receipts.

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager

FOR SALE: Iraqi rifle. Never fired. Dropped once.

[Ian Jackson]

In message
<d91c5abe-f559-45e8...@f5g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
Turk182 <digital...@aol.com> writes

>


>
>One Shell Station I go to must use invisible ink ...it fades! Before
>you get home you have to photo copy the receipt or the next day ... it
>will be too late!
>

But invisible ink is STILL ink. Luxury! One of my local garages
regularly doesn't even have any paper in the pay-at-the-pump printers.
--
Ian

[Jethro_uk]

You can also set up an online draw, completely negating the need to go
into a shop, works for us.

[Cynic]

On Fri, 13 Apr 2012 21:22:04 +0100, Alex Heney <m...@privacy.net>
wrote:

>>Well I never! Brighton is not all *that* far out in the sticks, but I
>>must admit that I never knew that. It certainly has not been
>>advertised all that well in any of the supermarkets I frequent, and I
>>routinely see a queue of people at the tobacco kiosk who want only to
>>purchase a lottery ticket, so I guess they are similarly ignirant of
>>the availability at the tills.
>
>Very likely.
>
>Or they prefer (like Turk182) to have the "proper" tickets that stand
>out from their general receipts.

I'll stick with getting my tickets online. It means I don't have to
worry about losing the ticket, and don't have to remember to check the
numbers. And the lottery company can trace who bought the winning
ticket in the event that the winner has died or similar.

--
Cynic

[julia...@googlemail.com]

A WHSMITH TILL RECEIPT LOTTO CAN ONLY BE REDEEMED AT WHSMITH.

[Tom H]

On 15/06/2015 13:11, julia...@googlemail.com wrote:
> A WHSMITH TILL RECEIPT LOTTO CAN ONLY BE REDEEMED AT WHSMITH.
>

And?

[Vidcapper]

On 15/06/2015 13:11, julia...@googlemail.com wrote:

> A WHSMITH TILL RECEIPT LOTTO CAN ONLY BE REDEEMED AT WHSMITH.
>

Could be a problem redeeming it if you get 5 plus the bonus... :p

--

Paul Hyett, Cheltenham

[Owain]

On Monday, 15 June 2015 15:05:39 UTC+1, Paul Hyett wrote:
> On 15/06/2015 13:11, julia...@googlemail.com wrote:
> > A WHSMITH TILL RECEIPT LOTTO CAN ONLY BE REDEEMED AT WHSMITH.
> Could be a problem redeeming it if you get 5 plus the bonus... :p

They'd still offer you a chocolate bar at the till.

Owain

[Ophelia]

"Owain" <spuorg...@gowanhill.com> wrote in message
news:86d3f22c-8419-4b7c...@googlegroups.com...

Offer to sell you one you mean.


--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Tom H]

And short change you

[rasta....@gmail.com]

On Friday, April 13, 2012 at 3:07:17 PM UTC+1, Cynic wrote:
>
> I have no idea, but I don't see why you need a particularly good RNG
> to spew out 6 lottery numbers so there is no reason why it *shouldn't*
> be generated by the terminal.
>

I have used VBA and, more recently, SQL to generate my lottery numbers for several years.

Most I've ever won is about £25 :-(

[Norman Wells]

<rasta....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:357d420e-52e8-4836...@googlegroups.com...

Why on earth do you think the selection of lottery numbers is not
completely random?

[rasta....@gmail.com]

On Monday, June 15, 2015 at 7:01:36 PM UTC+1, Norman Wells wrote:
>
> Why on earth do you think the selection of lottery numbers is not
> completely random?

Did I say that?

[|||new...@nezumi.demon.co.uk]

On 15/06/2015 19:01, Norman Wells wrote:
>
> <rasta....@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:357d420e-52e8-4836...@googlegroups.com...
> On Friday, April 13, 2012 at 3:07:17 PM UTC+1, Cynic wrote:
>>
>> I have no idea, but I don't see why you need a particularly good RNG
>> to spew out 6 lottery numbers so there is no reason why it *shouldn't*
>> be generated by the terminal.
>>
>
> I have used VBA and, more recently, SQL to generate my lottery numbers
> for several years.
>
> Most I've ever won is about £25

That is the most common prize so no surprises there.

> Why on earth do you think the selection of lottery numbers is not
> completely random?

Sucker bets. If you want to avoid sharing a big lottery prize you should favour numbers that are not famous or appearing in dates.

The odds of any 6 matches is still the same, but the odds of someone else (perhaps several of them) having chosen exactly the same subset is greatly enhanced if you use your birthday or that of a loved one.

You can take a pretty good guess at the number of ways the prize will be shared by looking at the distribution of numbers in the draw.

The number of balls drawn >32 (excluding 36, 42 & 49) greatly increases the odds of it being a unique winner. Conversely too many balls in the 1-12 range make it very likely to be shared by thousands of people.

The balls being picked by the lotto machine probably are truly random (although tiny systematic bias due to the markings is not impossible). See the Wolff dice experiment back in the days when they were hand made for example.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown