Sodium Chlorate weedkiller
Retired
unable to obtain any from local garden centres.
Does anyone know if this is true, or is it just a ploy to sell the higher
priced products?
B.E.
Mr Benn
"Retired" <ret...@bprivacy.com> wrote in message
news:7v2dnbVWkZNNQ-fX...@brightview.co.uk...
It's still widely-available although these days it's sold with a high
proportion of fire-retardant after some nasty incidents in the past of it
being used in explosive preparations. Killjoys! The retardant doesn't stop
it working as a weedkiller however.
Brimstone
lorries to make very nasty loud noises in public places. Hence the
restrictions.
November 5
It is as I predicted. People are being disarmed in every possible way
so that we will have no means of opposing the Communist Big Brother
autocracy in the works. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant - all
they want is your taxes and obedient compliance.
Next up, petrol will be banned under the guise of "environmentally
friendly" electric cars.
Run while you can!
N5
Robbie
I have two containers of it in my shed. Thank God I'm not dark skinned,
I'd be getting raided at dawn!
Judith M Smith
wrote:
it is alive and well and on sale in Wilkinsons
--
Show your non-acceptance of Ian Jackson as the proposed chief moderator of URCM and the use of his chiark system.
Vote against the formation of the group.
Sam
"November 5" <november...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:c9f36308-0704-4cef...@c29g2000yqd.googlegroups.com...
Shouldn't that be "drive while you can" ?
November 5
No. Run (from the UK) while you can!
N5
fred
<ret...@bprivacy.com> writes
To be withdrawn from sale by 30th Sept.
http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/prc.asp?id=2623
The non-inclusion Decision, 2008/865/EC (pdf, 2 pages), for sodium
chlorate was published on 10 November 2008.
The UK has 14 professional products and 41 amateur products containing
sodium chlorate which must now be revoked in order to withdraw these
products from the market and comply with the EC Decision. The Revocation
Notices for professional and amateur products can be viewed on the PSD
website. The dates for withdrawal of plant protection products
containing sodium chlorate are also given below.
Professional Products:
Given approval until 10 May 2009 for the advertisement, sale and supply
by persons holding an approval for professional pesticide products.
Given approval until 30 September 2009 for the advertisement, sale and
supply by persons other than the approval holder.
Given approval until 10 May 2010 for storage and use by any persons.
Amateur Products:
Given approval until 10 May 2009 for the advertisement, sale and supply
by persons holding an approval for amateur pesticide products.
Given approval until 30 September 2009 for the advertisement, sale and
supply by persons other than the approval holder.
Given approval until 10 May 2010 for storage and use by any persons.
Keeping up-to-date
You can keep up-to-date with EC issues, including the result of voting
at the EC Standing Committee on the Food Chain and Animal Health by
checking the EC news page of the European section of our website.
--
fred
BBC3, ITV2/3/4, channels going to the DOGs
Sam
Where to though?
November 5
Sam wrote:
> > No. Run (from the UK) while you can!
>
> Where to though?
Obviously, that depends on your personal beliefs and personal
circumstance.
Most people will not have the mobility that they had before the credit
crunch simply because they can't sell their home and leave, especially
with it being in negative equity.
The usual Anglo destinations like the USA, Canada and Australia are
quickly turning into countries with governments that obsessively
meddle and legislate. The UK's rush to become a Communist police state
is the quickest of all, though.
N5
Ian Jackson
<32ff0137-1112-4af5...@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
November 5 <november...@googlemail.com> writes
--
Ian
Retired
"Judith M Smith" <judith...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:udsl75ljpgh99m8jc...@4ax.com...
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:46:55 +0100, "Retired" <ret...@bprivacy.com>
> wrote:
>
>>I'm told that the use of this has now been banned; certainly I've been
>>unable to obtain any from local garden centres.
>>Does anyone know if this is true, or is it just a ploy to sell the higher
>>priced products?
>>
>>B.E.
>>
>
>
> it is alive and well and on sale in Wilkinsons
>
they've got some left!
For a gravel drive and a block patio its far better than all the fancy weed
killers, Any that lands on the blocks or gravel gets washed into the soil
next time it rains and stops the weeds growing. All the others just kill
existing green weeds!
I suppose it is a ploy by the manufacturers of expensive products to get the
cheap stuff off the market, just like the German Government on behalf of VW
is trying to get it made compulsory that all cars are only serviced by
manufacturer approved garages.
B.E.
November 5
Individual income tax, NI, VAT, council tax, fuel duty, congestion
charge, inheritance tax, etc.
If the tax rate is cumulatively 50% that means half of your working
life is spent working for the government. It might not be Communist in
the purest sense of the word but it is at least halfway there.
N5
Norman Wells
> "Judith M Smith" <judith...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:udsl75ljpgh99m8jc...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:46:55 +0100, "Retired" <ret...@bprivacy.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> I'm told that the use of this has now been banned; certainly I've
>>> been unable to obtain any from local garden centres.
>>> Does anyone know if this is true, or is it just a ploy to sell the
>>> higher priced products?
>>>
>>> B.E.
>>>
>>
>>
>> it is alive and well and on sale in Wilkinsons
>>
> I've ordered enough for the next few years on-line from Wilkinsons.
> Hope they've got some left!
After 30 September 2009, it should no longer be available anywhere.
From 10 May 2010, you will be acting illegally if you use it or have any
stored up.
> For a gravel drive and a block patio its far better than all the
> fancy weed killers, Any that lands on the blocks or gravel gets
> washed into the soil next time it rains and stops the weeds growing.
> All the others just kill existing green weeds!
> I suppose it is a ploy by the manufacturers of expensive products to
> get the cheap stuff off the market, just like the German Government
> on behalf of VW is trying to get it made compulsory that all cars are
> only serviced by manufacturer approved garages.
The official reason given is:
"there are clear indications that it may be expected that it has harmful
effects on human health, in particular taking into consideration the
unacceptable exposure to operators taking into account the proposed
provisional AOEL."
AlanG
wrote:
>I'm told that the use of this has now been banned; certainly I've been
Yes it has been banned from this September. I stocked up with a couple
of kilos. Should keep my yard and path clear for the next ten years
Jethro
> "Judith M Smith" <judithmsm...@live.co.uk> wrote in messagenews:udsl75ljpgh99m8jc...@4ax.com...> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:46:55 +0100, "Retired" <reti...@bprivacy.com>
> > wrote:
>
> >>I'm told that the use of this has now been banned; certainly I've been
> >>unable to obtain any from local garden centres.
> >>Does anyone know if this is true, or is it just a ploy to sell the higher
> >>priced products?
>
> >>B.E.
>
> > it is alive and well and on sale in Wilkinsons
>
> I've ordered enough for the next few years on-line from Wilkinsons. Hope
> they've got some left!
Let's hope they don't report you as a terrorist ... remember when
chemical companies were required to report large sales of fertiliser ?
AlanG
It's about as communist as E Gemany in 1974
Ian Jackson
<inv...@invalid.net> writes
I don't think that any of the 'communist' countries were very
'communist'. 'Fascist', yes, but 'communist', no.
--
Ian
Ian Jackson
<no-...@myarl.co.uk> writes
ferrous sulphate (the basic ingredient in moss killer). You can no
longer. The store told me it was EC rules, as it was poisonous (probably
as poisonous as common salt). But you can (sometimes) get 1kg boxes - at
about the same price that you used to pay for the 25kg. I can almost
hear my moss laughing when I arrive home with a 1kg box.
--
Ian
Robbie
How much moss do you have?!
Ian Jackson
<ngrob...@hotmail.com> writes
An unbelievable amount! The lawns (which are fairly large) have no real
topsoil. It's all clay and flint (with a fair number of bricks and
half-bricks thrown in for good measure). Turn your back, and moss has
sprung up everywhere, and displaced any grass which dared to grow there.
And then there's the roof (cement/concrete tiles). Large lumps of moss
everywhere. Without being scraped and sprayed with ferrous sulphate
solution (not some concoction which also contains a fertiliser) every
year or two, the moss would cover it completely. [I'm seriously thinking
of having it professionally cleaned and sealed].
--
Ian
Steve Walker
> It's about as communist as E Gemany in 1974
Share the sentiment, but really there's no comparison.
- Grey, bleak joyless GDR, shoddy goods and no imports, restricted
international travel for 99% of public. Private enterprise suppressed
except for private, secret benefit of powerful elite.
- Gaudy, commercialised UK, wasteful wealth is flaunted as a fashion,
highest quality goods freely available on very high street, international
travel cheap and easy for 99% of public. Private enterprise deified,
officially better than public service.
What we have become is all the bad parts of the USA, with none of the good
bits.
duffer
...but for whatever reason most of the main suppliers seem to have
stopped stocking it..used to get mine from B & Q....only a few
(expensive) internet suppliers it seems :(
--
duffer
November 5
Communism is about redistributing wealth from those who deserve it to
those who don't. Taxation to support non-jobs and fund unwanted
government expenditure is an example of such redistribution of wealth.
Therefore we are Communist in all but name.
Even if ideal Communism was implemented and everyone was equal, is it
best that genetically superior people would have the same number of
progeny and state-allocated resources as genetically inferior people?
Eventually it would lead to a population whose gene pool is utterly
infested with maladapted genes, such as various inheritable diseases,
genetic defects, poor consitution and feeblemindedness.
N5
Fredxx
Whereas as those who are IQ deprived here in the UK have the largest
families, and start younger!
So are you suggesting a communist gene pool may have less maladapted genes
than ours?
AlanG
Mr Benn
"fred" <n...@for.mail> wrote in message news:54TuSsAWHweKFwG6@y.z...
> In article <7v2dnbVWkZNNQ-fX...@brightview.co.uk>, Retired
> <ret...@bprivacy.com> writes
>>I'm told that the use of this has now been banned; certainly I've been
>>unable to obtain any from local garden centres.
>>Does anyone know if this is true, or is it just a ploy to sell the higher
>>priced products?
>>
> Withdrawn due to EEC ruling:
>
> To be withdrawn from sale by 30th Sept.
>
> http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/prc.asp?id=2623
What is the reason for withdrawing it from sale? It is quite safe now that
it is being sold with a fire retardant.
Peter Crosland
news:h5h09g$qtv$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
It is actually very toxic to humans and wildlife which is why it is being
banned.
http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/uploadedfiles/Web_Assets/PSD/chlorate_decision_2008_865_EC.pdf
tells you more.
Peter Crosland
November 5
Quite. In fact with a child benefits culture (particularly bad in
Sweden), it is possible to become a professional parent who just
breeds and raises children. This especially occurs in Muslim families
where the man can have up to four wives as per their religious
beliefs.
> So are you suggesting a communist gene pool may have less maladapted genes
> than ours?
A communist gene pool will have more maladapted genes than one where
the parents and their offspring are left to sink or swim. If someone
is fit enough to support multiple children, let them prove it.
It may seem counterintuitive that a bit of cruelty now will spare much
more cumulative cruelty in the long run.
For example if the human rights of the first few HIV+ patients was
denied and they were summarily executed or quarantined in a legally
liberated society, the millions suffering from HIV today would never
have happened.
N5
Mr Benn
"Peter Crosland" <g6...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:iZ-dnetDl9w_lOHX...@brightview.co.uk...
Thanks Peter
I hadn't realised that it was particularly toxic but can appreciate the
problems with it contaminating groundwater.
So when NaClO3 is no longer avalable, what is the next cheapest weedkiller
to use on paths & driveways? Some of them are very expensive compared to
sodium chlorate.
Peter Crosland
You will not find anything as cheap. The best thing is probably something
based on glyphosphate which is a systemic herbicide that is absorbed into
the plant. Now that the Monsanto patent has expired the price has come down
but is still not a cheap alternative.
Peter Crosland
November 5
Sodium chlorate is simply an oxidiser that reverts to salt once it is
spent.
In any case, surely if it is toxic it is then the user's
responsibility to use it with caution?
Do nanny state governments expect to micromanage us to the point that
they remove every possible item that might cause injury or death?
How convenient that the items which may be dangerous to us are also
what might be dangerous to them.
N5
AlanG
wrote:
>AlanG wrote:
>> It's about as communist as E Gemany in 1974
>
>Share the sentiment, but really there's no comparison.
>
>- Grey, bleak joyless GDR, shoddy goods and no imports, restricted
>international travel for 99% of public. Private enterprise suppressed
>except for private, secret benefit of powerful elite.
Grey bleak joyless UK in most towns and cities. Cheap shoddy goods for
the masses. Quality lifestyle for the masters. Creeping restrictions
on overseas travel. Control over association except in private. State
security officials permitted to hand out punishments. Voluntary and
self help groups now require state permission. Two classes of citizen.
>
>- Gaudy, commercialised UK, wasteful wealth is flaunted as a fashion,
>highest quality goods freely available on very high street, international
>travel cheap and easy for 99% of public. Private enterprise deified,
>officially better than public service.
>
>What we have become is all the bad parts of the USA, with none of the good
>bits.
>
But I have heard the USofA referred to as a fascist shithole. It might
have been Clarkson and he is rarely wholly wrong
Steve Walker
> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:17:54 +0100, "Steve Walker" <spam...@beeb.net>
> wrote:
>
>> AlanG wrote:
>>> It's about as communist as E Gemany in 1974
>>
>> Share the sentiment, but really there's no comparison.
>>
>> - Grey, bleak joyless GDR, shoddy goods and no imports, restricted
>> international travel for 99% of public. Private enterprise suppressed
>> except for private, secret benefit of powerful elite.
>
> Grey bleak joyless UK in most towns and cities. Cheap shoddy goods for
> the masses. Quality lifestyle for the masters. Creeping restrictions
> on overseas travel. Control over association except in private. State
> security officials permitted to hand out punishments. Voluntary and
> self help groups now require state permission. Two classes of citizen.
Mostly hyperbole. Let's take it point by point :
- Grey bleak joyless UK in most towns and cities -
Have you *been* in a town centre recently Alan? There's more gaudy
advertising, flashing neon and loud music than ever. You walk down row
after row of open, inviting chain restaurants & retailers, all selling goods
stacked high for relatively low prices. Horrible, banal crap, but not like
GDR in any way.
- Cheap shoddy goods for the masses -
Nonsense. Every chav wears Nikes and has a nice new polyphonic mobile.
The masses shop at Tesco, and buy thousands of iPods and iPhones every day.
Everyone can afford a healthy diet, the biggest problem is persuading them
to take it instead of gorging on junk food and lager. There are no cheap
rusty, rubbish cars (Moskvich, old Skoda, old BL), even the cheapest Kia is
a solid, reliable little runner. Basic-level electrical goods and
appliances are cheaper and better than even a decade ago.
- Quality lifestyle for the masters -
Agreed. But that's not a signifier of communism, just of wealth &
hierarchy.
- Creeping restrictions on overseas travel -
Not for the great majority, who can take �20 Ryanair flights to Riga
hen-nights any time they want. Certain minorities are being watched, and
we're all being surveilled more, but as long as you keep the party going and
show no sign of activism or rebellion they'll ignore you completely.
- State security officials permitted to hand out punishments -
Now you're completely off-piste. In GDR the Stazi could take your home, you
family or your work away with the wave of a hand, imprison and torture you,
with complete freedom. In UK today we have numerous little-hitlers giving
out their little tickets but that's nothing new, and it's always
challengeable in a court. To suggest a comparison is to demean the real
suffering of GDR people under the old regime.
- Voluntary and self help groups now require state permission -
Not true. There is a constant busybodying interference, but that's just
the English way (always has been, we must love it on some deep level or we
wouldn't allow it to continue).
- Two classes of citizen -
Actually more, but that's no different to any other nation in the world.
I agree with a lot of what you write Alan, but to suggest we are reduced to
GDR is Wolfie Smith naivety.
AlanG
wrote:
>AlanG wrote:
>> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 21:17:54 +0100, "Steve Walker" <spam...@beeb.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> AlanG wrote:
>>>> It's about as communist as E Gemany in 1974
>>>
>>> Share the sentiment, but really there's no comparison.
>>>
>>> - Grey, bleak joyless GDR, shoddy goods and no imports, restricted
>>> international travel for 99% of public. Private enterprise suppressed
>>> except for private, secret benefit of powerful elite.
>>
>> Grey bleak joyless UK in most towns and cities. Cheap shoddy goods for
>> the masses. Quality lifestyle for the masters. Creeping restrictions
>> on overseas travel. Control over association except in private. State
>> security officials permitted to hand out punishments. Voluntary and
>> self help groups now require state permission. Two classes of citizen.
>
>Mostly hyperbole. Let's take it point by point :
>
>- Grey bleak joyless UK in most towns and cities -
>Have you *been* in a town centre recently Alan?
I live in one. Mostly clone shops and many of those are shut
> There's more gaudy
>advertising, flashing neon and loud music than ever. You walk down row
>after row of open, inviting chain restaurants & retailers, all selling goods
>stacked high for relatively low prices. Horrible, banal crap, but not like
>GDR in any way.
The only difference is the crap is there
>
>- Cheap shoddy goods for the masses -
>Nonsense. Every chav wears Nikes and has a nice new polyphonic mobile.
Technology improves . Even the GDR had disposable razor blades
>The masses shop at Tesco, and buy thousands of iPods and iPhones every day.
>Everyone can afford a healthy diet, the biggest problem is persuading them
>to take it instead of gorging on junk food and lager. There are no cheap
>rusty, rubbish cars (Moskvich, old Skoda, old BL), even the cheapest Kia is
>a solid, reliable little runner. Basic-level electrical goods and
>appliances are cheaper and better than even a decade ago.
>
>- Quality lifestyle for the masters -
>Agreed. But that's not a signifier of communism, just of wealth &
>hierarchy.
I didn't call it communism. Just compared the UK to 1974 E Germany
>
>- Creeping restrictions on overseas travel -
>Not for the great majority, who can take �20 Ryanair flights to Riga
>hen-nights any time they want. Certain minorities are being watched, and
>we're all being surveilled more, but as long as you keep the party going and
>show no sign of activism or rebellion they'll ignore you completely.
For now. Travel outside the UK is a concession where it used to be a
right
>
>- State security officials permitted to hand out punishments -
>Now you're completely off-piste. In GDR the Stazi could take your home, you
>family or your work away with the wave of a hand, imprison and torture you,
>with complete freedom.
It appears to be happening today. And they can kill you with complete
freedom.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/magazine/7745773.stm
> In UK today we have numerous little-hitlers giving
>out their little tickets but that's nothing new, and it's always
>challengeable in a court. To suggest a comparison is to demean the real
>suffering of GDR people under the old regime.
It's 30 years later. The similarities are still there
>
>- Voluntary and self help groups now require state permission -
>Not true.
Yes it is. Most volunteers arfe required by law to be CRB checked.
> There is a constant busybodying interference, but that's just
>the English way (always has been, we must love it on some deep level or we
>wouldn't allow it to continue).
>
>- Two classes of citizen -
>Actually more, but that's no different to any other nation in the world.
>
>
>I agree with a lot of what you write Alan, but to suggest we are reduced to
>GDR is Wolfie Smith naivety.
>
It's only a matter of degree. The fact the touch is softer doesn't
alter the fact>
>
Mike
>
> - State security officials permitted to hand out punishments -
> Now you're completely off-piste. In GDR the Stazi could take your home, you
> family or your work away with the wave of a hand, imprison and torture you,
> with complete freedom.
Not much different from the UK police. Admittedly they have to fabricate a bit
of "evidence" to get a magistrate to take away your home (closure order IIRC),
but they can take away your work by seizing the tools of your trade in a S18
search; they can imprison you without cause ("kettling"); torture you (with a
Taser); assault you; or kill you (Harry Stanley, Jean Charles de Menezes, James
Ashley et al.) - all with almost complete impunity.
> In UK today we have numerous little-hitlers giving
> out their little tickets but that's nothing new, and it's always
> challengeable in a court.
Only by those who can afford (in both time and money) to do so.
--
Mike
Bob Ferguson
"AlanG" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:1i6m755t1mtib0tc0...@4ax.com...
Illegal to possess it from next year.
Svenne
I'm not surprised, it makes one hell of a bang when mixed with sugar.
Me and my friends used to make bombs from it that we set off on waste
ground 50 years ago. We'd probably get life in Guantanamo if we did it
today.
We also used to make rockets powered by a mixture of charcoal, sulpher
and potassium nitrate. I suppose potassium nitrate is illegal today as
well.
Svenne
Ian Jackson
<tvaer...@aol.com> writes
>On Mon, 24 Aug 2009 14:06:19 +0100, "Bob Ferguson"
><robert....@google.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"AlanG" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
>>news:1i6m755t1mtib0tc0...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:46:55 +0100, "Retired" <ret...@bprivacy.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm told that the use of this has now been banned; certainly I've been
>>>>unable to obtain any from local garden centres.
>>>>Does anyone know if this is true, or is it just a ploy to sell the higher
>>>>priced products?
>>>>
>>>>B.E.
>>>>
>>> Yes it has been banned from this September. I stocked up with a couple
>>> of kilos. Should keep my yard and path clear for the next ten years
>
>>Illegal to possess it from next year.
>
>I'm not surprised, it makes one hell of a bang when mixed with sugar.
>Me and my friends used to make bombs from it that we set off on waste
>ground 50 years ago. We'd probably get life in Guantanamo if we did it
>today.
>
it which inhibits explosion.
>We also used to make rockets powered by a mixture of charcoal, sulpher
>and potassium nitrate. I suppose potassium nitrate is illegal today as
>well.
>
I never had much success with that mixture - more of a 'smoulder' than a
'woosh' or a 'bang'. I think the formula was just something they put in
things like the Boys' Own Paper and the Eagle Annual, knowing that no
child would be likely to get seriously killed. No, sodium chlorate and
sugar was the stuff to use.
--
Ian
Cynic
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>>We also used to make rockets powered by a mixture of charcoal, sulpher
>>and potassium nitrate. I suppose potassium nitrate is illegal today as
>>well.
>>
>I never had much success with that mixture - more of a 'smoulder' than a
>'woosh' or a 'bang'.
It's gunpowder - probably the oldest explosive known.
It will not explode in the open however, but needs to be under a lot
of pressure to burn fast enough to be explosive. So you have to pack
it into a container that will withstand a fair bit of pressure before
finally exploding. The traditional container was a wooden barrel - or
tamped into a gun barrel with wadding.
All ingedients must be finely ground using e.g. a pestle & mortar.
Grind separately, not together, then mix well.
To make a "banger", make a tube of several layers of paper (masking
tape works), seal one end of the tube with a small plug of epoxy putty
or plaster of paris, tamp in the gunpowder tightly, and crimp the
other end tightly around a thin fuse. Any loosness around the fuse
will make it go off like a firework rocket instead of exploding.
--
Cynic
Svenne
wrote:
>All ingedients must be finely ground using e.g. a pestle & mortar.
>Grind separately, not together, then mix well.
I developed my own way of grinding and it made pretty good stuff.
After mixing the ingredients together I added a little water to make a
thick paste, I then ground the paste. After drying it set into a hard
block that easily crumbled into first class gunpowder. I suppose it's
even l�llegal for me to be posting this on usenet. Times have changed.
Svenne
Mr Benn
"Svenne" <tvaer...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:9i3895hqb349sdgrr...@4ax.com...
> We also used to make rockets powered by a mixture of charcoal, sulpher
> and potassium nitrate. I suppose potassium nitrate is illegal today as
> well.
You can still buy it. Apparently, it is still used for preserving meat! It
is definitely illegal to make your own explosives of course.
Mr Benn
> <robert....@google.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"AlanG" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
>>news:1i6m755t1mtib0tc0...@4ax.com...
>>> On Thu, 6 Aug 2009 14:46:55 +0100, "Retired" <ret...@bprivacy.com>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm told that the use of this has now been banned; certainly I've been
>>>>unable to obtain any from local garden centres.
>>>>Does anyone know if this is true, or is it just a ploy to sell the
>>>>higher
>>>>priced products?
>>>>
>>>>B.E.
>>>>
>>> Yes it has been banned from this September. I stocked up with a couple
>>> of kilos. Should keep my yard and path clear for the next ten years
>
>>Illegal to possess it from next year.
>
> I'm not surprised, it makes one hell of a bang when mixed with sugar.
> Me and my friends used to make bombs from it that we set off on waste
> ground 50 years ago. We'd probably get life in Guantanamo if we did it
> today.
The brother of one of my old schoolfriends killed himself when a home-made
pipe bomb using sodium chlorate and sugar exploded. It blew his arm off and
he bled to death. Since that time, fire-inhibitor has been added to sodium
chlorate to render it relatively harmless. A very wise precaution which has
probably saved many lives over the years.
I hadn't realised until recently just how toxic sodium chlorate is to humans
and animals so it sounds like a good idea to prevent its use as a
weedkiller. I don't like the idea of it leaking into groundwater.
Ian Jackson
<nos...@invalid.invalid> writes
--
Ian
®i©ardo
> In message
> <32ff0137-1112-4af5...@26g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> November 5 <november...@googlemail.com> writes
>>
>>
>> Sam wrote:
>>
>>> > No. Run (from the UK) while you can!
>>>
>>> Where to though?
>>
>> Obviously, that depends on your personal beliefs and personal
>> circumstance.
>>
>> Most people will not have the mobility that they had before the credit
>> crunch simply because they can't sell their home and leave, especially
>> with it being in negative equity.
>>
>> The usual Anglo destinations like the USA, Canada and Australia are
>> quickly turning into countries with governments that obsessively
>> meddle and legislate. The UK's rush to become a Communist police state
>> is the quickest of all, though.
>>
> I disagree completely. It's not 'Communist'.
Nothing ever is, is it? The followers of "communism" have more
apologists as to why it isn't what it claims to be than there are people
in the UK. Still, it proves that it has never worked to date and never will.
--
Moving things in still pictures
Bob Ferguson
"Ian Jackson" <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:8Gh0QEON...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk...
complex than just mixing them together. A simple mechanical mixture will
just burn. Properly made gunpowder will explode if more than the hyper
critical mass is present (actually a fairly small heap).
Sodium Chlorate and sugar was a rather sensitive mixture and many accidents
have occured while attempting to make it (including a boy at my school who
amputated all the fingers of one hand and 2 from the other when he attempted
it). Sodium Chlorate and sulphur gave just as good a bang but was a good
deal less sensitive. Modern Sodium Chlorate doesn't work with sulphur
either.
Bob Ferguson
"Cynic" <cyni...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:847895hkd22m7rl07...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 25 Aug 2009 17:31:09 +0100, Ian Jackson
> <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>We also used to make rockets powered by a mixture of charcoal, sulpher
>>>and potassium nitrate. I suppose potassium nitrate is illegal today as
>>>well.
>>>
>>I never had much success with that mixture - more of a 'smoulder' than a
>>'woosh' or a 'bang'.
>
> It's gunpowder - probably the oldest explosive known.
>
> It will not explode in the open however, but needs to be under a lot
> of pressure to burn fast enough to be explosive. So you have to pack
> it into a container that will withstand a fair bit of pressure before
> finally exploding. The traditional container was a wooden barrel - or
> tamped into a gun barrel with wadding.
>
Not correct. Whilst any explosive compound or mixture will just burn if
unconfined, every explosive has a 'hypercritical' mass where the mass of the
explosive itself will provide the necessary confinement for an explosion to
take place (its actually a function of the velocity of deflagration,
density, makeup etc.). Most explosive compounds such a Dynamite, RDX, TNT
and the like have a velocity of deflagration that is comparatively low and
thus they have a very large hypercritical mass which makes what you posted
more or less correct for those explosives.
But gunpowder has a fairly high velocity of deflagration and consequently a
very low hypercritical mass. A tablespoonful of the stuff will just burn
very rapidly singeing your moustache in the process if you stand too close.
But a heap of just half a pound of the stuff will explode doing a
significant damage. A tablespoonful of potassium chlorate and white
phosphorous mixture well exceeds the hyprcritical mass for that mixture and
it is very good at making impressions of coins in steel plate (in a way that
few explosives can better).
Modern smokeless gun powders are made from explosive compounds (usually, but
not always, nitro cellulose and nitro glycerin mixture in a carrier material
in varying proportions). The one thing you don't want them to do is explode
(i.e. detonate) as you won't have much of the gun left. The confinement
increases the velocity of deflagration (and reduces the hypercritical mass).
The trick is to get the maximum velocity of deflagration comensurate with
not exceeding the maximum barrel pressure, and maintaining that deflagration
evenly for the whole duration that the projectile is in the barrel.
Counterintuitively, under charging the gun with smokeless powder can
increase the likelihood of detonation and destruction of the gun.
Bob Ferguson
"Mr Benn" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
Under what legislation?
An explosives licence doesn't actually licence you to possess explosives.
It only licences you to *acquire* explosives. It is quite legal in
principle to possess the exlosive so acquired after the licence has expired,
but this does imply that the explosive was acquired for some legitimate
purpose.
Mr Benn
"Bob Ferguson" <robert....@google.co.uk> wrote in message
news:4a9e43f7$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "Mr Benn" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
> news:h73c3b$um6$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
>>
>> "Svenne" <tvaer...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> news:9i3895hqb349sdgrr...@4ax.com...
>>
>>> We also used to make rockets powered by a mixture of charcoal, sulpher
>>> and potassium nitrate. I suppose potassium nitrate is illegal today as
>>> well.
>>
>> You can still buy it. Apparently, it is still used for preserving meat!
>> It is definitely illegal to make your own explosives of course.
>
> Under what legislation?
I don't know, I had assumed that it would be illegal to make explosives
without a licence but I may well be wrong.
> An explosives licence doesn't actually licence you to possess explosives.
> It only licences you to *acquire* explosives. It is quite legal in
> principle to possess the exlosive so acquired after the licence has
> expired, but this does imply that the explosive was acquired for some
> legitimate purpose.
Would making explosives be the same as aquiring them?
Cynic
Interesting thanks for that.
I recall from army days that when a terrorist weapons cache was found,
instead of taking it, the engineers were called. They replaced the
powder in the AK47 rounds and mortar bombs with high-explosive and
fitted immediate detonation fuses to the grenades. Then the cache was
left for the terrorists to recover.
--
Cynic
Bob Ferguson
"Mr Benn" <nos...@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
Well chemistry teachers do it all the time. I have all the harder to source
ingredients necessary to manufacture Nitrogen Tri-iodide not to mention
Nitro-Glycerin, Nitro Cellulose and even a very passable plastic explosive
(the ingredients that I haven't got are easily sourceable in my local high
street). However, I chose not to.