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Communal heating in apartment block.
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Derek F
Apr 4, 2014, 5:51:42 PM4/4/14
to
Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
for residents in a block of flats?
We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
supplies our hot water. The boilers were replaced to years ago with
shareholders and leaseholders paying a share based on number of rooms.
The majority use the communal heating. The lease states that heating
will be on from 1St November until April 1st. This had never been
enforced and it was left to the caretaker to decide when it was needed.
We formed a company to buy the freehold some years ago with 36 of us
buying a share the rest being leaseholders.
We have directors and use a management company to manage the property.
We had originally had five directors with a brilliant chairman who had
great knowledge of building and engineering and got things done and
restrained the dafter ideas of the management company.
One director moved and two found better things to do with their time and
resigned.
We were left with our chairman whose work took him away for much of the
time and our company secretary/treasurer who struggles on in his
eighties after cardiac surgery.
Last year a couple moved into a flat and wanted to improve things in
general for the mainly aging residents some of whom are not very mobile
or even housebound.
They put themselves up for election as directors. I objected to the idea
of putting to much power into the hands of inexperienced people and
giving one flat half of the votes in spite of just having one share. It
was debated in their absence and we also found that the wife was only
willing to serve if her husband was elected.
The vote saw them narrowly elected. Recently our chairman has sold his
flat as his marriage has broken up so of course he is no longer a
shareholder leaving the couple in control. They have out up various new
recommendations including that residents should replace their radiator
valves should be replaced by thermostatic ones as they believed that
residents controlled their environment by opening windows rather than
turning the heating down.Today they posted a notice that the heating
rule will be brought into effect as in the terms of the lease.
I think that they must be a couple of Greens.
Derek
for residents in a block of flats?
We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
supplies our hot water. The boilers were replaced to years ago with
shareholders and leaseholders paying a share based on number of rooms.
The majority use the communal heating. The lease states that heating
will be on from 1St November until April 1st. This had never been
enforced and it was left to the caretaker to decide when it was needed.
We formed a company to buy the freehold some years ago with 36 of us
buying a share the rest being leaseholders.
We have directors and use a management company to manage the property.
We had originally had five directors with a brilliant chairman who had
great knowledge of building and engineering and got things done and
restrained the dafter ideas of the management company.
One director moved and two found better things to do with their time and
resigned.
We were left with our chairman whose work took him away for much of the
time and our company secretary/treasurer who struggles on in his
eighties after cardiac surgery.
Last year a couple moved into a flat and wanted to improve things in
general for the mainly aging residents some of whom are not very mobile
or even housebound.
They put themselves up for election as directors. I objected to the idea
of putting to much power into the hands of inexperienced people and
giving one flat half of the votes in spite of just having one share. It
was debated in their absence and we also found that the wife was only
willing to serve if her husband was elected.
The vote saw them narrowly elected. Recently our chairman has sold his
flat as his marriage has broken up so of course he is no longer a
shareholder leaving the couple in control. They have out up various new
recommendations including that residents should replace their radiator
valves should be replaced by thermostatic ones as they believed that
residents controlled their environment by opening windows rather than
turning the heating down.Today they posted a notice that the heating
rule will be brought into effect as in the terms of the lease.
I think that they must be a couple of Greens.
Derek
David L. Martel
Apr 4, 2014, 6:55:13 PM4/4/14
to
Derek,
> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels for
> residents in a block of flats?
There are standards. When it is -1C outside, the bedrooms must be 18C and
the "living spaces" 21C.
You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
The rest of your post is not very clear. Do you have a complaint or a
question?
.
Good luck,
Dave M.
> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels for
> residents in a block of flats?
the "living spaces" 21C.
You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
The rest of your post is not very clear. Do you have a complaint or a
question?
.
Good luck,
Dave M.
Derek F
Apr 4, 2014, 9:11:01 PM4/4/14
to
On 04/04/2014 23:55, David L. Martel wrote:
> Derek,
>
>> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels for
>> residents in a block of flats?
>
> There are standards. When it is -1C outside, the bedrooms must be 18C and
> the "living spaces" 21C.
Well unfortunately it will not be -1 outside before November or after
> Derek,
>
>> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels for
>> residents in a block of flats?
>
> There are standards. When it is -1C outside, the bedrooms must be 18C and
> the "living spaces" 21C.
the end of March.
> You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
They are not badly heated when the heating is on but in September, April
> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
and May it can be cold enough late in the to need heating. Particularly
for the less mobile. We have one resident who is 98 and a few others in
their early 90's. They can't do exercises to keep warm:-)
> The rest of your post is not very clear. Do you have a complaint or a
> question?
>
It is both a question and a complaint. Very few have any other form of
> question?
>
heating so will need to purchase heaters and add to their already
considerable cost of living here by paying for extra electricity and
that is probably less green than the gas fired boiler being on.
One factor that does make the flats colder is that none have a radiator
in their hall that would help spread heat around the flats.
The building was initially a hotel built around 1960 so I presume that
the original radiators were the ones there before conversion. Mainly the
ones with their own central heating are in a later build annex, the two
added penthouses and the first two floors that was a restaurant.
We and others stayed with the communal system when the new boilers were
installed because of lack of space for a central heating boiler. The
kitchens are quite small and the pantry type cupboard would have been
lost with a boiler in it. I believe that initially most owners used the
restaurant instead of cooking.
Derek
David D S
Apr 5, 2014, 1:43:05 AM4/5/14
to
from communal heating, and its switching on and off are determined
by date rather than temperature. It means that there are regularly
periods of a couple or three weeks at the end of Autumn or the
end of Winter when you feel you are living inside an ice-cube. I
think this couple's suggestions of fitting thermostatic valves might
be a good move, but only if there is a swift move away from turning
the central heating on or off by date: it must be done by some
monitoring of the temperature, with a bit of leeway that allows
residents to tweak any settings they individually have. This could
certainly cater for the different needs of residents, like the ones of
advanced ages you illustrated,
--
David D S: UK and PR China. (Native BrEng speaker)
Use Reply-To header for email. This email address will be
valid for at least 2 weeks from 2014/4/5 13:35:57
Judith
Apr 5, 2014, 3:30:26 AM4/5/14
to
On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 22:51:42 +0100, Derek F <lordp...@NOXgmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
> They have out up various new
>recommendations including that residents should replace their radiator
>valves should be replaced by thermostatic ones as they believed that
>residents controlled their environment by opening windows rather than
>turning the heating down.Today they posted a notice that the heating
>rule will be brought into effect as in the terms of the lease.
>I think that they must be a couple of Greens.
>Derek
>
Or perhaps just sensible
What is the point of heating a whole block - when people have your outlook?
I think that you can still buy small fan heaters in case you are cold in the
summer etc
<snip>
> They have out up various new
>recommendations including that residents should replace their radiator
>valves should be replaced by thermostatic ones as they believed that
>residents controlled their environment by opening windows rather than
>turning the heating down.Today they posted a notice that the heating
>rule will be brought into effect as in the terms of the lease.
>I think that they must be a couple of Greens.
>Derek
>
What is the point of heating a whole block - when people have your outlook?
I think that you can still buy small fan heaters in case you are cold in the
summer etc
Martin Brown
Apr 5, 2014, 4:36:22 AM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 02:11, Derek F wrote:
> On 04/04/2014 23:55, David L. Martel wrote:
>> Derek,
>>
>>> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature
>>> levels for
>>> residents in a block of flats?
>>
>> There are standards. When it is -1C outside, the bedrooms must be
>> 18C and
>> the "living spaces" 21C.
I would find that uncomfortably warm in the UK.
> On 04/04/2014 23:55, David L. Martel wrote:
>> Derek,
>>
>>> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature
>>> levels for
>>> residents in a block of flats?
>>
>> There are standards. When it is -1C outside, the bedrooms must be
>> 18C and
>> the "living spaces" 21C.
> Well unfortunately it will not be -1 outside before November or after
> the end of March.
>> You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
>> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
that people are running their heating flat out and then opening windows
when it is too hot. And you cannot expect elderly residents to adjust
manual CH valves at floor level on the grounds of grip and access. Their
suggestion to fit thermostatic valves is a good one!
> They are not badly heated when the heating is on but in September, April
> and May it can be cold enough late in the to need heating. Particularly
> for the less mobile. We have one resident who is 98 and a few others in
> their early 90's. They can't do exercises to keep warm:-)
a different spin on it. They feel the cold much more, but you may have
to accept an increased annual heating charge in future.
>> The rest of your post is not very clear. Do you have a complaint or a
>> question?
>>
> It is both a question and a complaint. Very few have any other form of
> heating so will need to purchase heaters and add to their already
> considerable cost of living here by paying for extra electricity and
> that is probably less green than the gas fired boiler being on.
company is within its rights to enforce the rules. Arguably they have a
responsibility to the management company shareholders to do so.
> One factor that does make the flats colder is that none have a radiator
> in their hall that would help spread heat around the flats.
> The building was initially a hotel built around 1960 so I presume that
> the original radiators were the ones there before conversion. Mainly the
> ones with their own central heating are in a later build annex, the two
> added penthouses and the first two floors that was a restaurant.
> We and others stayed with the communal system when the new boilers were
> installed because of lack of space for a central heating boiler. The
> kitchens are quite small and the pantry type cupboard would have been
> lost with a boiler in it. I believe that initially most owners used the
> restaurant instead of cooking.
> Derek
cost grounds) to implement the contract of heating by date. I'd say that
probably wasn't sensible for an old peoples home and you should
negotiate with them for heating on based on external temperature.
But give ground on the thermostatic valves that will save money and give
improved comfort with relatively little effort once installed.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Mrcheerful
Apr 5, 2014, 4:55:27 AM4/5/14
to
On 04/04/2014 22:51, Derek F wrote:
> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
> for residents in a block of flats?
> We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
> own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
this same thing was posted a couple of years ago, surely you have it
> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
> for residents in a block of flats?
> We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
> own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
sorted by now?
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 6:17:06 AM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 09:36, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 05/04/2014 02:11, Derek F wrote:
>> On 04/04/2014 23:55, David L. Martel wrote:
>>> Derek,
>>>
>>>> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature
>>>> levels for
>>>> residents in a block of flats?
>>>
>>> There are standards. When it is -1C outside, the bedrooms must be
>>> 18C and
>>> the "living spaces" 21C.
>
> I would find that uncomfortably warm in the UK.
>
>> Well unfortunately it will not be -1 outside before November or after
>> the end of March.
>>> You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
>>> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
>
> Thermostatic valves should help significantly if there is a suspicion
> that people are running their heating flat out and then opening windows
> when it is too hot. And you cannot expect elderly residents to adjust
> manual CH valves at floor level on the grounds of grip and access. Their
> suggestion to fit thermostatic valves is a good one!
>
All of the radiators originally had the valves at the top. Even people
> On 05/04/2014 02:11, Derek F wrote:
>> On 04/04/2014 23:55, David L. Martel wrote:
>>> Derek,
>>>
>>>> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature
>>>> levels for
>>>> residents in a block of flats?
>>>
>>> There are standards. When it is -1C outside, the bedrooms must be
>>> 18C and
>>> the "living spaces" 21C.
>
> I would find that uncomfortably warm in the UK.
>
>> Well unfortunately it will not be -1 outside before November or after
>> the end of March.
>>> You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
>>> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
>
> Thermostatic valves should help significantly if there is a suspicion
> that people are running their heating flat out and then opening windows
> when it is too hot. And you cannot expect elderly residents to adjust
> manual CH valves at floor level on the grounds of grip and access. Their
> suggestion to fit thermostatic valves is a good one!
>
who have replaced them with more modern ones have the valves at the top.
>> They are not badly heated when the heating is on but in September, April
>> and May it can be cold enough late in the to need heating. Particularly
>> for the less mobile. We have one resident who is 98 and a few others in
>> their early 90's. They can't do exercises to keep warm:-)
>
> OK so it is a block of flats with a geriatric population - that does put
> a different spin on it. They feel the cold much more, but you may have
> to accept an increased annual heating charge in future.
>
It would not be any greater than it is at present with the caretaker
>> and May it can be cold enough late in the to need heating. Particularly
>> for the less mobile. We have one resident who is 98 and a few others in
>> their early 90's. They can't do exercises to keep warm:-)
>
> OK so it is a block of flats with a geriatric population - that does put
> a different spin on it. They feel the cold much more, but you may have
> to accept an increased annual heating charge in future.
>
deciding when to turn it on and off for the season. Cost has been
reduced since the new gas boilers replaced the old decrepit oil ones.
This is a question that I asked on a DIY NG that was never answered
despite a lot of posting on the thread
"We live in a Block with a communal heating and hot water system.
It has been suggested that residents at their own expense have TVR's
fitted to their radiators to cut down on the communal heating bill.
Some have previously replaced their radiators and have TVR's.
To my very simple mind I'm not convinced that it will work.... but I
will soon be corrected. At the moment if I have a valve full on or turn
it down to barely on the radiators stay at the same heat"
later post:
"Now my Thicko bit again. I don't understand how the water flows between
the ones in our flat or round the building. How does an individual
thermostatic valve reduce a radiator heat when water of a certain
temperature leaves the boiler
If does it by reducing the flow would not less water be leaving the rad
to go on to the next rad as it must be continually flowing round this
huge building.
Mind you I didn't understand it when we had our own system in a house
and a flat but at least then I could hear our pump going.
Answers and diagrams n the back of a fag packet please:-)
>>> The rest of your post is not very clear. Do you have a complaint
>>> or a
>>> question?
>>>
>> It is both a question and a complaint. Very few have any other form of
>> heating so will need to purchase heaters and add to their already
>> considerable cost of living here by paying for extra electricity and
>> that is probably less green than the gas fired boiler being on.
>
> But if it is written into the terms of the lease then the management
> company is within its rights to enforce the rules. Arguably they have a
> responsibility to the management company shareholders to do so.
>
>> One factor that does make the flats colder is that none have a radiator
>> in their hall that would help spread heat around the flats.
>
> No. That just wastes heat to no useful purpose.
>
Is it?
>>> or a
>>> question?
>>>
>> It is both a question and a complaint. Very few have any other form of
>> heating so will need to purchase heaters and add to their already
>> considerable cost of living here by paying for extra electricity and
>> that is probably less green than the gas fired boiler being on.
>
> But if it is written into the terms of the lease then the management
> company is within its rights to enforce the rules. Arguably they have a
> responsibility to the management company shareholders to do so.
>
>> One factor that does make the flats colder is that none have a radiator
>> in their hall that would help spread heat around the flats.
>
> No. That just wastes heat to no useful purpose.
>
It would stop cold air going into the other three large rooms
all around 5.5 Mtr by 3.5.
The kitchen and toilet do not have a radiator and the bathroom a towel
rail heated from the hot water system.
We are on the Sussex Coast and have big windows and the sitting room and
dining room get sun most of the day. The bedroom does not get sun until
evening and the kitchen is in a shady position.
Being on the coast we can get sudden drops in temperature when Fret
comes in.
>> The building was initially a hotel built around 1960 so I presume that
>> the original radiators were the ones there before conversion. Mainly the
>> ones with their own central heating are in a later build annex, the two
>> added penthouses and the first two floors that was a restaurant.
>
> This is incomprehensible. Try again.
>
Sorry I can't phrase it in any other way. Can you define the bit that
>> the original radiators were the ones there before conversion. Mainly the
>> ones with their own central heating are in a later build annex, the two
>> added penthouses and the first two floors that was a restaurant.
>
> This is incomprehensible. Try again.
>
you don't get.
>> We and others stayed with the communal system when the new boilers were
>> installed because of lack of space for a central heating boiler. The
>> kitchens are quite small and the pantry type cupboard would have been
>> lost with a boiler in it. I believe that initially most owners used the
>> restaurant instead of cooking.
>> Derek
>
> Your gripe seems to be that the management have decided (presumably on
> cost grounds) to implement the contract of heating by date. I'd say that
> probably wasn't sensible for an old peoples home and you should
> negotiate with them for heating on based on external temperature.
>
I am about to inquire if the two new directors have their own central
>> installed because of lack of space for a central heating boiler. The
>> kitchens are quite small and the pantry type cupboard would have been
>> lost with a boiler in it. I believe that initially most owners used the
>> restaurant instead of cooking.
>> Derek
>
> Your gripe seems to be that the management have decided (presumably on
> cost grounds) to implement the contract of heating by date. I'd say that
> probably wasn't sensible for an old peoples home and you should
> negotiate with them for heating on based on external temperature.
>
heating system:-)
The chairman did in his penthouse as does the company
secretary/treasurer who lives in annex.
> But give ground on the thermostatic valves that will save money and give
> improved comfort with relatively little effort once installed.
>
Our flat had been empty for years and the valves were corroded and
> improved comfort with relatively little effort once installed.
>
barely turned.
Again from the DIY NG:
When the new boiler was installed I was going to get new radiators
installed. Only three out of eight companies contacted from the local
Checkatrade directory wanted to come to quote. They scratched their
heads and did not understand how the system worked and how they would do
it. I took them next door to a neighbour who had previously replaced her
rads replaced and had TVR's. They evidently understood the piping then.
By the way we have parquet flooring under the carpets if that makes any
difference.
Two did not want to do it after visiting. Silence from the third.
Eventually an E-Mail to him produced a quote of over £3k for three
radiators and another Grand if we wanted an additional one in the hall.I
did not bother replying and got our usual plumber to replace the turn on
valves. He unusually for a plumber does not want to do unnecessary work
and said that our existing radiators were perfectly adequate.
Derek
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 6:24:03 AM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 08:30, Judith wrote:
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 22:51:42 +0100, Derek F <lordp...@NOXgmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> They have out up various new
>> recommendations including that residents should replace their radiator
>> valves should be replaced by thermostatic ones as they believed that
>> residents controlled their environment by opening windows rather than
>> turning the heating down.Today they posted a notice that the heating
>> rule will be brought into effect as in the terms of the lease.
>> I think that they must be a couple of Greens.
>> Derek
>>
>
>
> Or perhaps just sensible
>
> What is the point of heating a whole block - when people have your outlook?
>
Every one is willing to pay for it although as in anything communal some
> On Fri, 04 Apr 2014 22:51:42 +0100, Derek F <lordp...@NOXgmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>> They have out up various new
>> recommendations including that residents should replace their radiator
>> valves should be replaced by thermostatic ones as they believed that
>> residents controlled their environment by opening windows rather than
>> turning the heating down.Today they posted a notice that the heating
>> rule will be brought into effect as in the terms of the lease.
>> I think that they must be a couple of Greens.
>> Derek
>>
>
>
> Or perhaps just sensible
>
> What is the point of heating a whole block - when people have your outlook?
>
will use more than others as with the hot water.
Charges are made on the basis of number of rooms. That is a big
variable. A one bedroom flat has two adults and a child in it. Some
three bedroom flats have just one person.
> I think that you can still buy small fan heaters in case you are cold in the
> summer etc
>
I have a three bar radiator with convection heating sitting in the
> summer etc
>
cellar plus a convector heater and a fan heater that we brought from our
last house.I am thinking of ones who have never needed additional heating.
Derek
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 6:27:24 AM4/5/14
to
may in a thread have mentioned something about our building in some way.
Derek.
Martin
Apr 5, 2014, 6:29:15 AM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 11:17, Derek F wrote:
> "Now my Thicko bit again. I don't understand how the water flows between
> the ones in our flat or round the building. How does an individual
> thermostatic valve reduce a radiator heat when water of a certain
> temperature leaves the boiler
> If does it by reducing the flow would not less water be leaving the rad
> to go on to the next rad as it must be continually flowing round this
> huge building.
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 6:30:48 AM4/5/14
to
group did.
Derek
Mrcheerful
Apr 5, 2014, 6:43:32 AM4/5/14
to
supply pipe, the thermo valve decides whether to let that hot water
enter the rad and warm the room, as the room warms up the thermo valve
closes. if the valve is open then the 'used' cooler water goes into a
return circuit back to the boiler, is then heated and sent round in a
big loop.
Martin Brown
Apr 5, 2014, 6:56:20 AM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 11:30, Derek F wrote:
-A-B-C-D-E-
and
|-A-|
|-B-|
|-C-|
|-D-|
|-E-|
Each radiator is across a main feed of hot water and a return of cold.
A thermostatic valve slows and will cut off the flow through radiators
that are in rooms that have reached temperature. When needed it will
open the flow again to maintain a steady heat and should work well.
The only annoyance is that they can tend to stick after a summer of
being hard off but otherwise are worthwhile. A room thermostat would be
better but I guess the system isn't capable of handling that.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Mrcheerful
Apr 5, 2014, 6:57:42 AM4/5/14
to
up a long while ago.
Martin
Apr 5, 2014, 7:18:47 AM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 11:56, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 05/04/2014 11:30, Derek F wrote:
>> On 05/04/2014 11:29, Martin wrote:
>>> Radiators are connected in parallel not series
>> Told you I am thick. Can you explain the difference as no one the DIY
>> group did.
>> Derek
>
> The difference between
>
> -A-B-C-D-E-
>
> and
>
> |-A-|
> |-B-|
> |-C-|
> |-D-|
> |-E-|
tim.....
Apr 5, 2014, 9:13:00 AM4/5/14
to
"Derek F" wrote in message news:JPF%u.59084$2N5....@fx05.iad...
Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
for residents in a block of flats?
We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
supplies our hot water. The boilers were replaced to years ago with
shareholders and leaseholders paying a share based on number of rooms.
The majority use the communal heating.
Communal heating in domestic property sucks
I'm surprised that given a choice so many signed up for it, but given that
they have they are stuck with the rules.
As to whether one flat owner can have two director's positions, usually the
lease will forbid this. At the very least, if they both serve they should
only have one vote between them, not one vote each, they only represent one
flat.
tim
Judith
Apr 5, 2014, 9:36:39 AM4/5/14
to
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:24:03 +0100, Derek F <lordp...@NOXgmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
<snip>
>I have a three bar radiator with convection heating sitting in the
>cellar plus a convector heater and a fan heater that we brought from our
>last house.I am thinking of ones who have never needed additional heating.
>Derek
It seems incredible to me that you seem to be against a system which will help
>cellar plus a convector heater and a fan heater that we brought from our
>last house.I am thinking of ones who have never needed additional heating.
>Derek
to stop people opening their windows because they are too hot - and
consequently wasting the energy which you will all be billed for.
The idea of fitting TVRs seems a very sensible idea which will help save *all*
occupants on the common system having to pay for heating the streets and the
gardens.
Why do you not suggest that TVRs are fitted to all radiators in the building
with the cost being taken from the management funds?
Tariq Anees
Apr 5, 2014, 9:58:49 AM4/5/14
to
PLEASE HELP ME TO SEND ME SECURE ORDER SYSTEM FOR MY CUSTOMERS, NEEDED ON MY WEBSITE FOR COMPOSED CURES...........TOTAL SOLUTION FOR JOINTS PAIN AND MUSCLES AFFLICTIONS.
ALSO GUIDE ME WITH YOUR BEST SUGGESTIONS FOR MY WEBSITE AND FOR FREE TRAFFIC, NEED URGENTLY TO SEND TO
MY WEBSITE: tariqanees.3.dudaone.com
REGARDS,
DR.ANEES
Martin Brown
Apr 5, 2014, 11:39:27 AM4/5/14
to
seem to like the answers that he got there either.
Basically that thermostatic radiator valves will work even if he doesn't
understand them.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Mrcheerful
Apr 5, 2014, 12:20:11 PM4/5/14
to
David L. Martel
Apr 5, 2014, 12:30:41 PM4/5/14
to
Derek
>> You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
>> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
> They are not badly heated when the heating is on but in September, April
> and May it can be cold enough late in the to need heating.
You've already informed us that the caretaker does not adhere to the
buiding's November through April rule. What was the coldest temperature
inside of your flat within recent memory?
Particularly
> for the less mobile. We have one resident who is 98 and a few others in
> their early 90's. They can't do exercises to keep warm:-)
I'm sure that people of that age know what sweaters are. Are they
complaining? How cold is it?
I've no idea what is necessary to call a meeting and vote in new heating
rules. So far, you've not indicated that new rules are needed. You don't
seem to be able to organize and express your thoughts so I doubt that you
will get new rules enacted without help.
None of this has anything to do with the installation of thermostatic
radiator valves. Weren't these valves what you were complaining about? So
far it sounds as if the old chairman, who was wonderful, used the rules that
are still in place. Are you suddenly cold because he is no longer in charge?
Good luck,
Dave M.
>> You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
>> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
> They are not badly heated when the heating is on but in September, April
> and May it can be cold enough late in the to need heating.
buiding's November through April rule. What was the coldest temperature
inside of your flat within recent memory?
Particularly
> for the less mobile. We have one resident who is 98 and a few others in
> their early 90's. They can't do exercises to keep warm:-)
complaining? How cold is it?
I've no idea what is necessary to call a meeting and vote in new heating
rules. So far, you've not indicated that new rules are needed. You don't
seem to be able to organize and express your thoughts so I doubt that you
will get new rules enacted without help.
None of this has anything to do with the installation of thermostatic
radiator valves. Weren't these valves what you were complaining about? So
far it sounds as if the old chairman, who was wonderful, used the rules that
are still in place. Are you suddenly cold because he is no longer in charge?
Good luck,
Dave M.
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 1:36:46 PM4/5/14
to
thermostat is on a low setting hot water must be on its way to the
radiator so how does the required cooler get into it. There must be one
Hell of a lot of piping in our huge building. I wonder if anyone still
has the layout for it.
We stayed in a newish hotel last year and found that our toilet did not
refill after its first flush nor did several others on that floor and
the one above. They said that they had had a leak and were not sure
which valves needed to be turned off.
We had to move twice.At least e got a free breakfast for our trouble.
We have an entry phone system where several (including ours) have not
worked since July. A new company had taken over the servicing of it. The
man sent could not understand it and left after about two hours saying
it would be two day job for him to trace and check everything.
The next was no better and asked why we five wires coming into our flat
and what were all connected to.
Derek
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 1:38:29 PM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 11:56, Martin Brown wrote:
Derek
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 1:54:29 PM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 17:30, David L. Martel wrote:
> Derek
>
>>> You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
>>> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
>> They are not badly heated when the heating is on but in September, April
>> and May it can be cold enough late in the to need heating.
>
> You've already informed us that the caretaker does not adhere to the
> buiding's November through April rule. What was the coldest temperature
> inside of your flat within recent memory?
>
> Particularly
>> for the less mobile. We have one resident who is 98 and a few others in
>> their early 90's. They can't do exercises to keep warm:-)
>
> I'm sure that people of that age know what sweaters are. Are they
> complaining? How cold is it?
>
Its not cold at the moment. The 92 year old next door cannot lift her
> Derek
>
>>> You give no indication that the flats are badly heated and having
>>> thermostatic valves in each flat or room will likely be a help, anyway.
>> They are not badly heated when the heating is on but in September, April
>> and May it can be cold enough late in the to need heating.
>
> You've already informed us that the caretaker does not adhere to the
> buiding's November through April rule. What was the coldest temperature
> inside of your flat within recent memory?
>
> Particularly
>> for the less mobile. We have one resident who is 98 and a few others in
>> their early 90's. They can't do exercises to keep warm:-)
>
> I'm sure that people of that age know what sweaters are. Are they
> complaining? How cold is it?
>
arms to dress herself and has a carer come in night and morning.
> I've no idea what is necessary to call a meeting and vote in new heating
> rules. So far, you've not indicated that new rules are needed. You don't
> seem to be able to organize and express your thoughts so I doubt that you
> will get new rules enacted without help.
>
before speaking to others.
None of this has anything to do with the installation of thermostatic
> radiator valves.
Agreed but that was a suggestion from one of the new directors at our
> radiator valves.
December AGM
Weren't these valves what you were complaining about? So
> far it sounds as if the old chairman, who was wonderful, used the rules that
> are still in place.
He did not use the rules as stated in the lease agreement. I confidently
> far it sounds as if the old chairman, who was wonderful, used the rules that
> are still in place.
expect the new directors to point out the rule that all windows must be
cleaned in side and out every month.
Are you suddenly cold because he is no longer in charge?
>
If he were still here the heating would not be getting turned off on
>
Monday. It would have been left to the caretakers discretion.
Twice in the time we have been here it has snowed in mid April. in 2007
on a Sunday seven inches in just few hours.Who would have turned the
heating on in his absence?
> Good luck,
I had that today with 40/1 odds on Pineau De Re today. Happy, Happy
Happy, even more so than Mr Cheerful.
Derek
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 2:04:54 PM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 14:36, Judith wrote:
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:24:03 +0100, Derek F <lordp...@NOXgmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> I have a three bar radiator with convection heating sitting in the
>> cellar plus a convector heater and a fan heater that we brought from our
>> last house.I am thinking of ones who have never needed additional heating.
>> Derek
>
>
> It seems incredible to me that you seem to be against a system which will help
> to stop people opening their windows because they are too hot - and
> consequently wasting the energy which you will all be billed for.
>
in some council-run district heating schemes each dwelling has a device
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:24:03 +0100, Derek F <lordp...@NOXgmail.com> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> I have a three bar radiator with convection heating sitting in the
>> cellar plus a convector heater and a fan heater that we brought from our
>> last house.I am thinking of ones who have never needed additional heating.
>> Derek
>
>
> It seems incredible to me that you seem to be against a system which will help
> to stop people opening their windows because they are too hot - and
> consequently wasting the energy which you will all be billed for.
>
on the wall that measures the room temperature and this is used to
calculate the bill for that dwelling. So the residents drape bags of
frozen peas over the device.
Soon no one here will be opening a window to let coastal breezes in.
> The idea of fitting TVRs seems a very sensible idea which will help save *all*
> occupants on the common system having to pay for heating the streets and the
> gardens.
>
> Why do you not suggest that TVRs are fitted to all radiators in the building
> with the cost being taken from the management funds?
>
Because they want individuals to pay and those already with TVR's would
> with the cost being taken from the management funds?
>
think that they should not subsidise us.
Derek
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 2:07:48 PM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 11:57, Mrcheerful wrote:
DIY NG and a lot of the same background info is in this thread.
Derek
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 2:09:05 PM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 16:39, Martin Brown wrote:
I do like to know what is happening under my feet.
Derek
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 2:20:30 PM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 14:13, tim..... wrote:
>
>
> "Derek F" wrote in message news:JPF%u.59084$2N5....@fx05.iad...
>
> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
> for residents in a block of flats?
> We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
> own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
> supplies our hot water. The boilers were replaced to years ago with
> shareholders and leaseholders paying a share based on number of rooms.
> The majority use the communal heating.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Communal heating in domestic property sucks
>
> I'm surprised that given a choice so many signed up for it, but given
> that they have they are stuck with the rules.
>
As I said the building used to be a hotel so the the boilers were there.
>
>
> "Derek F" wrote in message news:JPF%u.59084$2N5....@fx05.iad...
>
> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
> for residents in a block of flats?
> We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
> own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
> supplies our hot water. The boilers were replaced to years ago with
> shareholders and leaseholders paying a share based on number of rooms.
> The majority use the communal heating.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Communal heating in domestic property sucks
>
> I'm surprised that given a choice so many signed up for it, but given
> that they have they are stuck with the rules.
>
As I also said the layout of the majority of the flats leaves no space
for a boiler.
The house our daughter bought had a similar problem and the boiler
(bigger in those days) was on her toilet wall and you had to squeeze
past it to get to the loo.
> As to whether one flat owner can have two director's positions, usually
> the lease will forbid this. At the very least, if they both serve they
> should only have one vote between them, not one vote each, they only
> represent one flat.
>
It was agreed by a majority at the AGM to allow it. They will each have
> the lease will forbid this. At the very least, if they both serve they
> should only have one vote between them, not one vote each, they only
> represent one flat.
>
a vote at directors meetings but only one for the flat at the AGM. Since
our chairman has moved we only have three directors so there is no point
in them even having a vote at a directors meeting.
Derek
Mrcheerful
Apr 5, 2014, 2:31:29 PM4/5/14
to
connection to the radiator is a tee off the feed pipe the hot water
bypasses that radiator and travels on toward the next, if that radiator
valve is open some of the water will go through the valve and warm the
radiator, until the valve says that the room has reached its required
temp. and closes down.
Judith
Apr 5, 2014, 4:13:39 PM4/5/14
to
"Judith" wrote in message
news:ee10k995ancd6srhq...@4ax.com...
Stanley Daniel de Liver
Apr 5, 2014, 4:37:09 PM4/5/14
to
On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 21:13:39 +0100, Judith <jmsmi...@hotmail.co.uk>
wrote:
irrelevant to cycling, you old troll.
--
It's a money /life balance.
wrote:
--
It's a money /life balance.
Derek F
Apr 5, 2014, 7:42:12 PM4/5/14
to
On 05/04/2014 21:13, Judith wrote:
>
>
> "Judith" wrote in message
> news:ee10k995ancd6srhq...@4ax.com...
>
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:24:03 +0100, Derek F <lordp...@NOXgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> I have a three bar radiator with convection heating sitting in the
>> cellar plus a convector heater and a fan heater that we brought from our
>> last house.I am thinking of ones who have never needed additional
>> heating.
>> Derek
>
>
> It seems incredible to me that you seem to be against a system which
> will help
> to stop people opening their windows because they are too hot - and
> consequently wasting the energy which you will all be billed for.
>
How come this topic has been spread to other. It has nowt to do with
>
>
> "Judith" wrote in message
> news:ee10k995ancd6srhq...@4ax.com...
>
> On Sat, 05 Apr 2014 11:24:03 +0100, Derek F <lordp...@NOXgmail.com>
> wrote:
>
> <snip>
>
>
>> I have a three bar radiator with convection heating sitting in the
>> cellar plus a convector heater and a fan heater that we brought from our
>> last house.I am thinking of ones who have never needed additional
>> heating.
>> Derek
>
>
> It seems incredible to me that you seem to be against a system which
> will help
> to stop people opening their windows because they are too hot - and
> consequently wasting the energy which you will all be billed for.
>
politics or cycling.
Looking back I actually said.
** As they believed that residents controlled their environment by
opening windows rather than
turning the heating down**
My next door neighbours morning carer usually opens some of her windows
to air the place and usually leaves without closing them. I then get a
visit from said neighbour saying that she is cold and can I close them
for her.
> The idea of fitting TVRs seems a very sensible idea which will help save
> *all*
> occupants on the common system having to pay for heating the streets and
> the gardens.
>
The flowering cherry tree is already looking very nice:-)
Derek
Martin Brown
Apr 6, 2014, 4:23:06 AM4/6/14
to
You have to be trolling.
The TRV valve closes when the set point is reached and stops further
ingress of hot water into the radiator until the thermostat opens again
and then hovers around the set point switching on and off. This is way
more efficient at maintaining a steady ambient in the room.
The stationary water in the radiator gradually cools giving its heat to
the room and when too cold the valve opens that cycle begins again.
> thermostat is on a low setting hot water must be on its way to the
> radiator so how does the required cooler get into it. There must be one
> Hell of a lot of piping in our huge building. I wonder if anyone still
> has the layout for it.
radiators are connected in parallel across the hot feed and cold return.
> We stayed in a newish hotel last year and found that our toilet did not
> refill after its first flush nor did several others on that floor and
> the one above. They said that they had had a leak and were not sure
> which valves needed to be turned off.
this moronic random anecdote to CH in a community block?
> We had to move twice.At least e got a free breakfast for our trouble.
> We have an entry phone system where several (including ours) have not
> worked since July. A new company had taken over the servicing of it. The
> man sent could not understand it and left after about two hours saying
> it would be two day job for him to trace and check everything.
> The next was no better and asked why we five wires coming into our flat
> and what were all connected to.
> Derek
aspects of the building. But the problem here seems to be that you want
to criticise the management for trying to do sensible things.
My suggestion is that the management offer anyone who fits TRVs a 5%
discount and those that don't a 10% surcharge on present fees. That way
Luddites like the OP can pay for their profligate waste of heat.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
tim.....
Apr 6, 2014, 10:01:48 AM4/6/14
to
"Derek F" wrote in message news:MPX%u.12580$RL1....@fx22.iad...
On 05/04/2014 14:13, tim..... wrote:
>
>
> "Derek F" wrote in message news:JPF%u.59084$2N5....@fx05.iad...
>
> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
> for residents in a block of flats?
> We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
> own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
> supplies our hot water. The boilers were replaced to years ago with
> shareholders and leaseholders paying a share based on number of rooms.
> The majority use the communal heating.
>
> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Communal heating in domestic property sucks
>
> I'm surprised that given a choice so many signed up for it, but given
> that they have they are stuck with the rules.
>
As I said the building used to be a hotel so the the boilers were there.
As I also said the layout of the majority of the flats leaves no space
for a boiler.
I thought you said that you had to pay for a replacement system.
Realistically this isn't going to be the pipes, so it must be the boiler?
If the flats really are so small that there isn't space for an individual
boiler (which are now much smaller than they used to be), then it doesn't
sound like radiator based central heating is the right solution in the first
place. But you are where you are
tim
Derek F
Apr 19, 2014, 12:50:01 PM4/19/14
to
On 06/04/2014 15:01, tim..... wrote:
>
>
> "Derek F" wrote in message news:MPX%u.12580$RL1....@fx22.iad...
>
> On 05/04/2014 14:13, tim..... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Derek F" wrote in message news:JPF%u.59084$2N5....@fx05.iad...
>>
>> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
>> for residents in a block of flats?
>> We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
>> own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
>> supplies our hot water. The boilers were replaced to years ago with
>> shareholders and leaseholders paying a share based on number of rooms.
>> The majority use the communal heating.
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Communal heating in domestic property sucks
>>
>> I'm surprised that given a choice so many signed up for it, but given
>> that they have they are stuck with the rules.
>>
> As I said the building used to be a hotel so the the boilers were there.
> As I also said the layout of the majority of the flats leaves no space
> for a boiler.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I thought you said that you had to pay for a replacement system.
> Realistically this isn't going to be the pipes, so it must be the boiler?
>
Yeah, we paid for a replacement system two years ago.
>
>
> "Derek F" wrote in message news:MPX%u.12580$RL1....@fx22.iad...
>
> On 05/04/2014 14:13, tim..... wrote:
>>
>>
>> "Derek F" wrote in message news:JPF%u.59084$2N5....@fx05.iad...
>>
>> Is there any law as in the factories act on minimum temperature levels
>> for residents in a block of flats?
>> We live in a block of 56 flats. People had the choice of having their
>> own central heating or having it from the communal boilers that also
>> supplies our hot water. The boilers were replaced to years ago with
>> shareholders and leaseholders paying a share based on number of rooms.
>> The majority use the communal heating.
>>
>> -------------------------------------------------------------------
>>
>> Communal heating in domestic property sucks
>>
>> I'm surprised that given a choice so many signed up for it, but given
>> that they have they are stuck with the rules.
>>
> As I said the building used to be a hotel so the the boilers were there.
> As I also said the layout of the majority of the flats leaves no space
> for a boiler.
>
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
> I thought you said that you had to pay for a replacement system.
> Realistically this isn't going to be the pipes, so it must be the boiler?
>
> If the flats really are so small that there isn't space for an
> individual boiler (which are now much smaller than they used to be),
> then it doesn't sound like radiator based central heating is the right
> solution in the first place. But you are where you are
>
As I said in another post the rooms are big but the kitchens and
> individual boiler (which are now much smaller than they used to be),
> then it doesn't sound like radiator based central heating is the right
> solution in the first place. But you are where you are
>
bathrooms are small. our only outside wall in the kitchen would be in
the Pantry that we don't want to use for that.(Very big kitchen windows)
Due to a cold snap the director couple postponed the turn off until the
14th. It has been pretty chilly at night and morning for the past two days.
Today the female director came to our door. Without asking what she
wanted I went into attack mode on the subject. I started by saying that
first time she came to our door last year to introduce herself she said
that they wanted to do things to help people and improve things in the
building and all she had done was to leave people cold. She thought that
they were saving people money. I said not if they had to buy heaters and
use expensive electricity.
After about twenty minutes I asked what she had actually come for.
Turned out she had come to sound out feelings about the turn off as she
had some complaints. As the caretaker had by then gone home I said that
her husband had been shown how to turn it on and could do so. She then
continued her round of canvassing. The heating came back on a couple of
hours later.
I reminded her that I had not voted for them and had expressed doubts
about two people from one flat having control over the rest of us.
They didn't know what they were taking on nor the buildings history nor
the changeable local climate.
Derek
steve robinson
Apr 19, 2014, 2:18:35 PM4/19/14
to
switch it on , even the most basic systems have automatic fire up
triggers wen the temperature drops
--
Derek F
Apr 19, 2014, 3:59:48 PM4/19/14
to
Derek
tim.....
Apr 20, 2014, 10:05:04 AM4/20/14
to
"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xn0j0zpy...@reader80.eternal-september.org...
heating system
my (German) LL turned my heating off at the end of March, last week she
turned it back on again ;-)
tim
>
> --
>
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