British Pakistanis convicted of sex abuse

[hab...@anony.net]

Of course the press will call them 'Asian'.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/oxford-child-paedophile-ring-case-seven-men-found-guilty-of-child-rape-trafficking-and-organising-prostitution-8616023.html


Two sets of brothers, Akhtar Dogar, 32, and Anjum Dogar, 31, and
Mohammed Karrar, 38, and Bassam Karrar, 33, along with Kamar Jamil,
27, Assad Hussain, 32, and Zeeshan Ahmed, 27, were convicted of a
string of offences including rape, trafficking and organising
prostitution over eight years involving girls as young as 11 in the
Oxford area.

[Nigel Oldfield]

Does the press say 'British British', or even 'British', when they are
British?


--
WM
http://criticalestoppel.blogspot.co.uk
http://soaptoo.blogspot.co.uk
http://therealosc.blogspot.co.uk
Truth:Humanity:Justice

[hab...@anony.net]

Muslims should ask themselves what is about Islam that causes these
problems.
Is it non existent Allah's relentless tirades against non belivers in
the holy book ?

[The Todal]

I suppose they could consult with Catholics in the UK, who could explain
why for many decades it was usual for priests, monks and nuns to treat
little children appallingly, flog them for minor misbehaviour, and
sexually molest them.

Was it something Jesus said, perhaps? Something somewhere about "let the
little children suffer when they come to me?"

[Kim Bolton]

The Todal wrote:

> On 14/5/13 22:58, hab...@anony.net wrote:
>> Muslims should ask themselves what is about Islam that causes these
>> problems.
>> Is it non existent Allah's relentless tirades against non belivers in
>> the holy book ?
>
> I suppose they could consult with Catholics in the UK, who could explain
> why for many decades it was usual for priests, monks and nuns to treat
> little children appallingly, flog them for minor misbehaviour, and
> sexually molest them.

The difference between Catholics and Muslims is that AFAIIA the
former's holy book doesn't condone such behaviour. Neither of us are
experts on the latter's holy book, but perhaps it suggests here and
there that kuffar girls are fair game?

> Was it something Jesus said, perhaps? Something somewhere about "let the
> little children suffer when they come to me?"

That's poor, even by your usual manipulative standards. The saying is
"Suffer the little children to come unto me and forbid them not,
for of such is the kingdom of God". 'Suffer' here means 'let' or
'permit', supported by the rest of the saying, but I suspect you knew
that.

I'm sure you could enjoy a game of word-twisting based on 'suffer',
but it needs to be somewhat better founded.

--
Kim Bolton

[The Todal]

On 15/5/13 10:43, Kim Bolton wrote:
> The Todal wrote:
>
>> On 14/5/13 22:58, hab...@anony.net wrote:
>>> Muslims should ask themselves what is about Islam that causes these
>>> problems.
>>> Is it non existent Allah's relentless tirades against non belivers in
>>> the holy book ?
>>
>> I suppose they could consult with Catholics in the UK, who could explain
>> why for many decades it was usual for priests, monks and nuns to treat
>> little children appallingly, flog them for minor misbehaviour, and
>> sexually molest them.
>
> The difference between Catholics and Muslims is that AFAIIA the
> former's holy book doesn't condone such behaviour. Neither of us are
> experts on the latter's holy book, but perhaps it suggests here and
> there that kuffar girls are fair game?

That's poor, even by your usual manipulative standards. "Perhaps" a holy
book condones the rape and sexual abuse of children, eh? Well, perhaps
you shouldn't offer ignorant speculation and should confine yourself to
quoting chapter and verse. Or is it taboo in your religion to open a
copy of the Koran and read from it?

I've snipped your post where you show yourself to have no sense of
humour. It is forgiveable to be an ignorant twat, but nobody can be
forgiven for being a humourless twat.

[Mentalguy2k8]

"The Todal" <deadm...@beeb.net> wrote in message
news:avgub9...@mid.individual.net...

I think it's religious *and* cultural. By definition, a religion insists
that those who "believe" are different to those who don't. Some religions
practise this by trying to convert/pray for non-believers, other religions
take the view that non-believers (or women, Jews or gays) are not chosen by
*their* God, and therefore have no value at all.

It stands to reason that countries with a majority of, let's say, Muslims
will have a higher proportion of those who believe that women, gays,
Christians, infidels, are far inferior to Muslims and therefore only exist
to be treated in whichever way the "superior" Muslim wishes to treat them.
And it stands to further reason that this will influence the *cultural*
makeup of society so that even lapsed Muslims or non-believers will grow up
in this atmosphere thinking it normal that women aren't equal, or that other
religions and kuffirs are worthless.

I expect it works in reverse too, if a white British couple went to live in
Pakistan, the husband wouldn't suddenly forget decades of societal equality
and start forcing his wife to walk behind him or forbid her to drive and
he'd probably treat all women with respect. I expect he'd face hostility
(and violence?) from the locals who don't think he should bring his own
customs to a foreign country, or not believe in Allah. They certainly
wouldn't tolerate him having a relationship with a local woman. These same
values are endemic in places like Bradford and Blackburn, the idea that
white people are not worthy, and white girls even less so. It's a fact of
life, and if there were gangs of white men grooming vulnerable black girls
purely because they thought they were "easy" and "expendable", we'd never
hear the end of it.

[Mentalguy2k8]

"The Todal" <deadm...@beeb.net> wrote in message
news:avgub9...@mid.individual.net...

> On 14/5/13 22:58, hab...@anony.net wrote:
>> Muslims should ask themselves what is about Islam that causes these
>> problems.
>> Is it non existent Allah's relentless tirades against non belivers in
>> the holy book ?
>>
>
> I suppose they could consult with Catholics in the UK, who could explain
> why for many decades it was usual for priests, monks and nuns to treat
> little children appallingly, flog them for minor misbehaviour, and
> sexually molest them.

If you can justify a belief in a ludicrous invisible mythical being, then
I'm sure you can justify whatever vile acts you commit in "his" name. If we
look on religion as a form of mental illness, then their behaviour really
isn't out of character.

[The Todal]

He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him
chasteneth him betimes.

This is the word of the Lord. Actually, anyone who went to school before
about 1975 will remember that corporal punishment was quite usual
throughout most schools. It had nothing to do with religion, but some
would say that the violence inflicted by monks and nuns was rather worse
than the violence inflicted in a typical secondary mod. There are many
even now who would say it doesn't amount to child abuse.

[Mentalguy2k8]

"The Todal" <deadm...@beeb.net> wrote in message

news:avh93s...@mid.individual.net...

> On 15/5/13 11:42, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
>>
>> "The Todal" <deadm...@beeb.net> wrote in message
>> news:avgub9...@mid.individual.net...
>>> On 14/5/13 22:58, hab...@anony.net wrote:
>>>> Muslims should ask themselves what is about Islam that causes these
>>>> problems.
>>>> Is it non existent Allah's relentless tirades against non belivers in
>>>> the holy book ?
>>>>
>>>
>>> I suppose they could consult with Catholics in the UK, who could
>>> explain why for many decades it was usual for priests, monks and nuns
>>> to treat little children appallingly, flog them for minor
>>> misbehaviour, and sexually molest them.
>>
>> If you can justify a belief in a ludicrous invisible mythical being,
>> then I'm sure you can justify whatever vile acts you commit in "his"
>> name. If we look on religion as a form of mental illness, then their
>> behaviour really isn't out of character.
>
>
> He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth
> him betimes.
>
> This is the word of the Lord. Actually, anyone who went to school before
> about 1975 will remember that corporal punishment was quite usual
> throughout most schools.

It was common in my school in the 80s!

A friend of mine's son went through a "rebel" stage a couple of years ago
when he was about 8, he used to just get up and walk out of the classroom
when he got bored. As long as he stayed in school grounds, they left him
alone but if he went out of the gate, they'd have to call his parents and
the Police because they weren't allowed to physically stop him leaving.
He'll be one of the kids his secondary school expels (or is it called
exclusion now?) just before his exams, to keep the school's statistics up.

[Ophelia]

"Mentalguy2k8" <Mental...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kmvo2q$4vp$1...@dont-email.me...

According to the police in the latest outrage, they didn't go for those
girls because of culturism (?) but because they were vulnerable! Yeah
right!
Lying bastards. They go for white girls because they are 'worthless' and
'expendable':( We don't hear about them going for their own girls if they
are 'vulnerable'!

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Mentalguy2k8]

"Ophelia" <Oph...@elsinore.me.ku.invalid> wrote in message
news:avhblh...@mid.individual.net...

I suppose we should say that migrant (and even 2nd or 3rd generation)
Pakistanis are "institutionally racist". There was a lady on the radio this
morning saying that Pakistani parents don't like their kids getting involved
with white or black kids, they only want their kids to date or marry "their
own kind".

And it seems that white girls are their "bit on the side" or pimped out
because they don't matter and don't count. Horrendous and ingrained racism,
I can't understand why the equality screamers aren't all over this.

[Phi]

"The Todal" <deadm...@beeb.net> wrote in message
news:avgub9...@mid.individual.net...

It is not necessary to believe in god, if it exists.

[Big Les Wade]

The Todal <deadm...@beeb.net> posted

>He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him
>chasteneth him betimes.
>
>This is the word of the Lord.

The Old Testament god anyway.

>Actually, anyone who went to school before about 1975 will remember
>that corporal punishment was quite usual throughout most schools. It
>had nothing to do with religion, but some would say that the violence
>inflicted by monks and nuns was rather worse than the violence
>inflicted in a typical secondary mod.

So goes the popular belief. I wouldn't know, but you are right about
corporal punishment in ordinary schools. And it is also true that it was
overused by some teachers, possibly for sadistic or even sexual reasons
(though I never noticed any evidence for the latter).

>There are many even now who would say it doesn't amount to child abuse.

I wouldn't dream of using the term these days. It is now one of the most
debased phrases in the language.

--
Les

[Ophelia]

"Mentalguy2k8" <Mental...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:kmvtk1$18a$1...@dont-email.me...

Because they are not white Brits! Only white Brits can be racist
don'tchaknow?

--
--
http://www.helpforheroes.org.uk/shop/

[Svenne]

Very good analysis, it's spot on and points out a major flaw in
multiculturalism. Unfortunately discussing these matters is frowned
upon, if not dismmissed out of hand as "racism." This will not make
problems go away. Quite the opposite.

There is going to be much grief across the whole of Europe in the
future because of the naive and irresponsible mass immigration from
retarded cultures that has taken place over the last few decades.

The racist rapes of white European girls and the fact that people with
non-European backgrounds are grossly overrepresented in crime
statistics and prison popultations in many European countries should
be cause for great concern. It would be if it were not for a misplaced
and irrational fear of "islamophobia" and "racism."

[The Todal]

I agree. The phrase "inappropriate behaviour" is also a debased phrase,
and we need to expand the range of vocabulary instead of talking in
politically correct cliches. We must roll this out going forward.

[Svenne]

It's because they are either wilfully blind to what is going on or
they are shit scared of being called "Islamophobes" and "racists" or
maybe a bit of both.

Either way it is an intellectual and moral cop-out.

[Kim Bolton]

"...perhaps you shouldn't offer ignorant speculation and should
confine yourself to quoting chapter and verse..."

Since you started off with what seems to be a deliberate misquote,
followed by selective interpretation to suit your particular agenda,
you aren't in a position to demand chapter and verse. IOW, you first.
--
Kim Bolton

[The Todal]

I don't agree. This is dangerous territory. Muslims were responsible for
9/11 and 7/7 and there was a danger that all Muslims would be regarded
as potential terrorists or (as many in Usenet kept saying) that their
agenda was to conquer the world, destroy our churches and build mosques
everywhere.

And now we have several Muslim gangs who have perpetrated very serious
child abuse, and a danger that this will be seen as typical of *all*
Muslims. People are always tempted to generalise and it is dangerous for
society if they do. The Muslim communities are as angry about these
villains as anyone else.

If the police have held back because of phoney concerns about protecting
Muslims from discrimination, the police need to be punished. It may also
have been laziness or an assumption that young girls in local authority
care are slags and that there is no need to protect them from abuse.
That is a more worthwhile area of investigation than throwing insults at
Asian men in general.

A victim's account is at
http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/14/oxford-abuse-ring-social-services

A victim of a gang of men who enslaved young girls for sex on the
backstreets of Oxford has told how she and her mother repeatedly begged
social services staff to rescue her from their clutches.

Speaking exclusively to the Guardian, the woman known in court as Girl C
accused Oxfordshire county council of continuing to lie about the
support it has offered to the victims of the gang.

She described how the gang began to abuse her when she was 13, plied her
with crack cocaine and threatened to cut off the head of her baby if she
ever tried to escape them.

Shortly after she was trafficked from Oxford to London for the first
time, Girl C said, she had tried to talk to staff at the care home but
was told the conversation was "inappropriate".

Victims turned to the police at least six times � four times in one year
� but investigations were begun and then halted when the vulnerable
girls withdrew complaints. One girl was threatened by the police that
she would be charged with wasting police time over her repeated absences
from a childrens' home.

Girl C remains unhappy with the council, criticising the single offer of
help she says she received. She said: "The council put out a press
release claiming they had offered wraparound care to all the girls and
their families, but the first we heard from them in five years was a
letter on 13 April from Jim Leivers [director for children, education
and families at the council], where he says he's been 'closely involved
in providing support' to me.

"That's a complete lie. My family have had no support or offers of help
at all from Oxfordshire. Nothing. Not at any point. Not even a phone
call. The last contact we had with the council was five whole years ago,
when my mum was begging them to help her stop me go off the rails. They
ignored her then and they've ignored us since."

[The Todal]

On 15/5/13 14:09, The Todal wrote:

>
> If the police have held back because of phoney concerns about protecting
> Muslims from discrimination, the police need to be punished. It may also
> have been laziness or an assumption that young girls in local authority
> care are slags and that there is no need to protect them from abuse.
> That is a more worthwhile area of investigation than throwing insults at
> Asian men in general.
>
> A victim's account is at
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/14/oxford-abuse-ring-social-services
>

and see also

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2013/may/14/oxford-sex-abuse-victim-princess

Girl C is reluctant to draw wider conclusions from the fact that all her
abusers were Muslim and their victims white.

"Not all the men are Asian: at least two are Egyptian," she said. "They
are, though, all Muslim � but not all Muslim men behave like that."

There did, however, appear to be a subset of Muslim men in Oxford who
targeted white girls.

Girl C said that when the men asked her to recruit younger girls, they
specified that they wanted only white girls. "But not all the punters
were Asian or North African," she added. "Although they were all foreign."

"The grooming was so clever. It takes about one year and then it's too
late: you're completely under their control," she remembered.

"It was such a smooth, planned, deliberate process.

"At first, they treat you like a princess. They make you feel wanted,
cared for and ask you about your life and your family. They buy you
gifts and make you the centre of their attention.

"That goes on for about six months, by which time you've told them so
much that they know exactly what to say to get under your skin. Slowly
they turn you against your family.

"I was so wrapped up in them that I believed what they told me without
questioning it. I thought they were so wise; that they knew everything.
I thought they were the only people I could trust.

"When you're dependent on them emotionally, they tie you even closer
with drugs and alcohol. They got me addicted to crack cocaine first,
then started giving me heroin. They once gave me a massive overdose and
I nearly died.

Girl C agreed to give evidence against the gang in court. In January,
she travelled to London and spent eight days in the witness box at the
Old Bailey.

It was, she said, such a traumatic experience that, despite Tuesday's
sentences, she would not go through it again and would advise other
victims of sexual abuse not to do so either.

[Phi]

"The Todal" <deadm...@beeb.net> wrote in message

news:avhemp...@mid.individual.net...

"Lessons have been learnt"

[Svenne]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 14:09:36 +0100, The Todal <deadm...@beeb.net>
wrote:

Unfortunately somebody though it was a very good idea to import
millions of people from backward countries who believe in a
particularly vile and retarded religion.

Now we have to live with the consequences. It won't be easy.

Not all Muslims rape white girls or set bombs off and I'm sure that
most Muslims are decent enough on the surface, but the superstition
they believe is still a pile of toxic crap.

[The Todal]

On 15/5/13 15:28, Svenne wrote:

>
> Not all Muslims rape white girls or set bombs off and I'm sure that
> most Muslims are decent enough on the surface, but the superstition
> they believe is still a pile of toxic crap.
>

All religions are a pile of toxic crap, and Islam is certainly no worse
than Catholicism.

And the plain fact is that neither muslims nor catholics run their lives
on the basis of rules set out in their ancient holy books. Only a very
small minority of extremists do.

For example, the IRA weren't planting bombs because the bible told them
to. It would be possible to select a few biblical texts to justify such
homicidal actions, but that isn't what actually motivates them. Same
with the muslims.

[pensive hamster]

On May 15, 12:16 pm, The Todal <deadmail...@beeb.net> wrote:
> On 15/5/13 11:42, Mentalguy2k8 wrote:

[...]

> > If you can justify a belief in a ludicrous invisible mythical being,
> > then I'm sure you can justify whatever vile acts you commit in "his"
> > name. If we look on religion as a form of mental illness, then their
> > behaviour really isn't out of character.
>
> He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him
> chasteneth him betimes.
>
> This is the word of the Lord. Actually, anyone who went to school before
> about 1975 will remember that corporal punishment was quite usual
> throughout most schools. It had nothing to do with religion, but some
> would say that the violence inflicted by monks and nuns was rather worse
> than the violence inflicted in a typical secondary mod. There are many
> even now who would say it doesn't amount to child abuse.

'Surely I was sinful at birth, sinful from the time my mother
conceived me.' ~ Psalm 51:5

And from a 1614 hymn:
http://www.hymntime.com/tch/htm/l/o/r/d/lordimvi.htm

Lord, I am vile, conceived in sin,
And born unholy and unclean;
Sprung from the man whose guilty fall
Corrupts the race, and taints us all.

Soon as we draw our infant breath,
The seeds of sin grow up for death;
Thy law demands a perfect heart,
But we’re defiled in every part. ...

Obviously monks and nuns are redeemed by faith, and so their sins are
forgiven them (or something like that).

You may say that was centuries ago, but the same idea is implicit in
relatively modern novels like Lord of the Flies - children are
degenerate little devils, who can only be redeemed by adult authority,
represented by the Naval Officer who rescues them.

And nowadays any non-believers (in religion, capitalism, socialism,
anti-racialism, green-ism, etc.) can to some extent, and with a little
ingenuity, be chastised as degenerate little devils.

[Big Les Wade]

The Todal <deadm...@beeb.net> posted

Who should we reach out to, in order to walk the walk as well as talk
the talk?

--
Les

[The Todal]

> But we�re defiled in every part. ...

>
> Obviously monks and nuns are redeemed by faith, and so their sins are
> forgiven them (or something like that).
>
> You may say that was centuries ago, but the same idea is implicit in
> relatively modern novels like Lord of the Flies - children are
> degenerate little devils, who can only be redeemed by adult authority,
> represented by the Naval Officer who rescues them.
>
> And nowadays any non-believers (in religion, capitalism, socialism,
> anti-racialism, green-ism, etc.) can to some extent, and with a little
> ingenuity, be chastised as degenerate little devils.
>

Yes, good points. And adults as well as children are often encouraged to
pray in language that suggests that we are miserable undeserving sinners
who hope that God will overlook our many faults and be merciful to us,
even though we've actually done nothing wrong other than have the
occasional wank.

And unfortunately there is still a residual belief in Western
democracies that it is our duty to bring civilisation to the heathens.
We may complain that Islam is trying to take over the planet but it is
more accurate to say that the USA is inflicting its culture on many
unwilling Islamic countries.

[Nigel Oldfield]

On 15/05/2013 14:09, The Todal wrote:

> A victim's account is at
> http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2013/may/14/oxford-abuse-ring-social-services

Little tartlet saving face.

There seemed to be no problem, when she was living the high life, with
her 'exotic' mates.

--
WM
http://criticalestoppel.blogspot.co.uk
http://soaptoo.blogspot.co.uk
http://therealosc.blogspot.co.uk
Truth:Humanity:Justice

[Nigel Oldfield]

We need some out-of-the-box, blue-sky-thinking - period

[Paul Cummins]

In article <kn0a1l$481$3...@dont-email.me>,
wmcritica...@googlemail.com (Nigel Oldfield) wrote:

> Little tartlet saving face.

I wish to utterly dissociate myself from, and condemn, this comment.

--
Paul Cummins - Always a NetHead
Wasting Bandwidth since 1981

---- If it's below this line, I didn't write it ----

[Theodore Pike]

On May 15, 1:19 pm, Big Les Wade <L...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> The Todal <deadmail...@beeb.net> posted

>
> >He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him
> >chasteneth him betimes.
>
> >This is the word of the Lord.
>
> The Old Testament god anyway.

LOL, yeah, it's always amusing hearing Christians saying things
like that to justify the slavery, rape, and mass murder in the OT.

Guess their sky fairy got a little nicer a bit later. Not much though.

[Nigel Oldfield]

On 15/05/2013 17:16, Paul Cummins wrote:
> In article <kn0a1l$481$3...@dont-email.me>,
> wmcritica...@googlemail.com (Nigel Oldfield) wrote:
>
>> Little tartlet saving face.
>
> I wish to utterly dissociate myself from, and condemn, this comment.

NP - not your statement, nor your affiliation.

It was shorthand, which I happy to expand upon.

[Nigel Oldfield]

On 15/05/2013 17:41, Nigel Oldfield wrote:
> On 15/05/2013 17:16, Paul Cummins wrote:
>> In article <kn0a1l$481$3...@dont-email.me>,
>> wmcritica...@googlemail.com (Nigel Oldfield) wrote:
>>
>>> Little tartlet saving face.
>>
>> I wish to utterly dissociate myself from, and condemn, this comment.
>
> NP - not your statement, nor your affiliation.
>
> It was shorthand, which I happy to expand upon.
>

"�Oxford is much more to do with money. The men exploiting the girls
were charging others �200-�600 a time and bringing eight to 10 men a day
into hotels and restrooms. It was much more organised.�"

"By contrast, in the Rochdale case some of the girls were so confused by
the nature of their abuse that during the trial they were still
insisting the men involved loved them."

http://www.independent.co.uk/voices/commentators/the-oxford-child-sex-abuse-verdict-highlights-a-cultural-problem-but-not-a-specifically-muslim-one-8616370.html

So confused - keeerchhingggg.

Do not believe the hype and lies.

[Nigel Oldfield]

On 15/05/2013 17:45, Nigel Oldfield wrote:

> Do not believe the hype and lies.

... for, if you do, the real problems will never be solved.

[Svenne]

On Wed, 15 May 2013 15:41:55 +0100, The Todal <deadm...@beeb.net>
wrote:

>On 15/5/13 15:28, Svenne wrote:
>
>>
>> Not all Muslims rape white girls or set bombs off and I'm sure that
>> most Muslims are decent enough on the surface, but the superstition
>> they believe is still a pile of toxic crap.
>>
>
>All religions are a pile of toxic crap, and Islam is certainly no worse
>than Catholicism.

Catholicism is dying. When I was a lad in Lancashire, a Catholic
hotbed in the 1950's and 60's, there were six full time priests at the
local church. The first Sunday mass started at 6am and was held every
hour until High Mass att 11am. The later masses were all packed. Now
there is one priest who looks after three decaying churches with
hardly any congregation.

Nobody believes the Catholic crap today. There is no comparison
between Islam and Catholicism.

>And the plain fact is that neither muslims nor catholics run their lives
>on the basis of rules set out in their ancient holy books. Only a very
>small minority of extremists do.

There have been a few high profile Catholics in politics, the war
criminal Tony Blair, the eccentric Ann Widdecombe and the insane self
mortifying Opus Dei fanatic Ruth Kelly. It worries me that nut jobs
like that can get anywhere near any political influence, but apart
from a few abberations I don't think that Catholics are much to worry
about.

Islam is a different bucket of rotten fish. As the numbers of Muslims
in society increase their retarded religion based values will also
have an increasing influence.

Islam is the religion to watch. I get nervous about talk of
"empowering Muslims" and "encouraging more Muslims to take part in
politics." I would never vote for a Muslim (or a Catholic) and I don't
want to see any of them them anywhere near political power and
influence.

[Fredxx]

On 15/05/2013 10:43, Kim Bolton wrote:
> The Todal wrote:
>

>> On 14/5/13 22:58, hab...@anony.net wrote:
>>> Muslims should ask themselves what is about Islam that causes these
>>> problems.
>>> Is it non existent Allah's relentless tirades against non belivers in
>>> the holy book ?
>>
>> I suppose they could consult with Catholics in the UK, who could explain
>> why for many decades it was usual for priests, monks and nuns to treat
>> little children appallingly, flog them for minor misbehaviour, and
>> sexually molest them.
>

> The difference between Catholics and Muslims is that AFAIIA the
> former's holy book doesn't condone such behaviour. Neither of us are
> experts on the latter's holy book, but perhaps it suggests here and
> there that kuffar girls are fair game?
>

Not sure about that. I suggest you read Proverbs 23:13-14 if you haven't
already.

[Kim Bolton]

Proverbs 23:13-14 New International Version (NIV)

13 Do not withhold discipline from a child;
if you punish them with the rod, they will not die.
14 Punish them with the rod
and save them from death.

Now, the question is, what does the Moslem holy book say about
the treatment of kuffar girls? Is it comparable to disciplining a
child?

--
Kim Bolton

[Fredxx]

I don't see that is any different to how each society values its
own-kind and not outsiders.

You only have to look at how the deaths associated with 911 pale into
insignificance to those deaths brought about by the US (and the UK) in Iraq.

There are a minority here who, if given half a chance, would mistreat
Muslims.

[Fredxx]

I meant to add that the 100,000s of deaths in Iraq aren't seen as
particularly important in the west when compared to 911.

[Theodore Pike]

Why would it? When the absolute vast majority of those deaths are
muslims killing
their fellow muslims? There is quite rightly a limit of sympathy for
idiotic behaviour. You
can lead a horse to water etc etc...