A55 'Special Road' speed limits
THAT Alec
think I've gone just about as far as Google's going to get me with this so I
wondered if anybody has further information. Here's where I've got to so
far:
Sections of the A55 are designated as a 'Special Road'.
According to www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si1990/Uksi_19901586_en_5.htm obviously
published in 1990:
"It is necessary to impose a specific speed limit on the special road
because it is not a motorway and the provisions of the Motorways Traffic
(Speed Limit) Regulations 1974 (S.I. 1974/502) only apply to special roads
which are motorways. The provisions of the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per
hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977 as continued
indefinitely by the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per
hour (Temporary Speed Limit) (Continuation) Order 1978 (S.I. 1978/1548) do
not apply to special roads."
Here's my first problem: I've never heard of "the 70 miles per hour, 60
miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977"
which apparently doesn't apply to 'special roads' anyway. I infer from the
name that it probably brought the National Speed Limit into being - is that
correct?
This brings me to my main question. The page mentioned above was obviously
current in 1990, yet I thought that speed limits were laid down by vehicle
and road type in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which I would have
assumed replaced the provisions of the 70 miles per hour, etc. Orders
1977/78. Is this the case or does this 70 miles per hour, etc still exist.
More importantly, are 'special roads' subject to the vehicle/road speed
limits laid down in the RTRA 1984?
As many will know, some sections of the A55 North Wales Expressway, have
speed limit signs showing 70mph in red roundels. I assume that these are the
sections which are designated as 'special roads', which I had assumed, if
the NSL didn't apply, would have some sort of Order or Regulation enacted to
mirror the NSL for all vehicles. However the current legislation concerning
at least one stretch of this road seems to me to apply a blanket 70mph speed
limit to all vehicles. That's the A55 Trunk Road (Glan Conwy - Conwy Morfa,
Conwy County Borough) (Temporary 70 mph Speed Limit) Order 2007 at
http://wales.gov.uk/legislationcs/inforce/localsi/temptraffic/2007/40382313/1329116/EnglishOrderA55GlanConwytoC1.doc?lang=en
That's a Word document, so for the wary the important part is:
"2. No person shall cause or permit any vehicle to proceed at a speed
exceeding 70 miles per hour in that length of the trunk road between Glan
Conwy and Conwy Morfa in the County of Conwy which extends from a point 80
metres east of the centrepoint of Glan Conwy Interchange Roundabout to a
point 200 metres west of the centreline of the bridge to Conwy Morfa at
Conwy Morfa Interchange
3. The provisions of article 13 of the Special Road (Glan Conwy-Conwy Morfa)
Regulations 1990(3) are hereby suspended."
So, in short, do the speed limits in the RTRA 1984 apply to 'special roads'
or not, if they do then what's the purpose of the A55 Trunk Road etc Order
above, if not then where is the speed limit on these 'special' sections of
the A55 for vehicles other than cars laid down?
The way I read this, it seems that NSL doesn't apply on these roads and the
only speed limit is a 70mph limit for all vehicles including vans and
trucks. That can't be right can it?
Alec
** Posted from http://www.teranews.com **
Road_Hog
"THAT Alec" <myname...@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
news:39493$48e1312f$52...@news.teranews.com..
Snipped, a load of waffle.
What are you talking about, the A55 is a dual carriageway and the NSL for
dual carriageways is 70MPH.
Airmax
"Road_Hog" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:gbsi0l$1n95$1...@energise.enta.net...
carriageway ahead signs"
Chris Lewis
(black stripe on white background) is displayed and the limits is as you
correctly say 70mph i.e. a normal A road.
On other sections however the road has almost motorway like regulations
where no learners/animals/pedestrians etc are allowed and the speed limit is
displayed as a black '70' in a red roundel i.e. a normal road spped.
I was stuck in traffic along this stretch of road on sunday evening and was
wondering what the difference was.
Chris
p.s. uk.rec.driving removed as its not carried on our works news-server.
THAT Alec
You didn't think to actually read the 'waffle' before making your
contribution then?
M.I.5¾
"Chris Lewis" <nos...@forme.thanks> wrote in message
news:48e1d0d0$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
I believe the difference affects the drivers of vans and lorries. On a
standard bit of dual carriageway (identified by NSL speed limit signs)
although cars can drive at 70 mph, lorries and vans are limited to 50 mph.
On special roads (which generally include motorways), lorries and vans may
drive at up to 70 mph. This is marked by actually displaying a 70 mph speed
limit sign.
Cynic
<nos...@forme.thanks> wrote:
>On other sections however the road has almost motorway like regulations
>where no learners/animals/pedestrians etc are allowed and the speed limit is
>displayed as a black '70' in a red roundel i.e. a normal road spped.
>
>I was stuck in traffic along this stretch of road on sunday evening and was
>wondering what the difference was.
The difference is that the national speed limit could be changed some
day. The speed limit on all roads governed by the NSL will then
change, but the road you speak of will remain a 70MPH limit.
I have sometimes wondered whether it would be legal for a speed limit
greater than 70MPH to be posted on a road?
--
Cynic
Rooney
> "Road_Hog" <nos...@nospam.com> wrote in message
>
> news:gbsi0l$1n95$1...@energise.enta.net...
>
>
>
> >news:39493$48e1312f$52...@news.teranews.com..
>
> > Snipped, a load of waffle.
>
> > What are you talking about, the A55 is a dual carriageway and the NSL for
> > dual carriageways is 70MPH.
>
> You didn't think to actually read the 'waffle' before making your
> contribution then?
>
> ** Posted fromhttp://www.teranews.com**
My guess is that no right-minded person would read the waffle.
What's your question? What's your point? What's your opinion on
caravans? Skodas? Speed cameras? Vauxhalls?
Mike Barnes
But on this part of the A55 there are signs indicating 70, not NSL. Like
this:
http://www.health-safety-signs.uk.com/productimages/670---Maximum-70.gif
I've not come across such signs anywhere else in the UK, and like the
OP, I'd be interested to know why they indicate 70 rather than NSL, and
what this means. I'm not as interested as *he* obviously is, but mildly
interested.
--
Mike Barnes
nightjar
"THAT Alec" <myname...@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
> I'm curious about the 70mph speed limit signs on the A55 in North Wales. I
> think I've gone just about as far as Google's going to get me with this so
> I wondered if anybody has further information. Here's where I've got to so
> far:
>
> Sections of the A55 are designated as a 'Special Road'.
A special road is one that is not a public right of way and is restricted to
motorised traffic. The legislation dates back to 1948, although it was not
used for a number of years. SFAIK, the A55 Colwyn Bay section is the only
length of special road that is not a motorway.
...
> Here's my first problem: I've never heard of "the 70 miles per hour, 60
> miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977"
> which apparently doesn't apply to 'special roads' anyway. I infer from the
> name that it probably brought the National Speed Limit into being - is
> that correct?
It modified the existing national speed limit. The national speed limit was
introduced in 1965 in two stages. Previously unrestricted non-motorway roads
had a 70mph limit applied in time for August Bank Holiday. Special Roads
needed a 70mph limit sign at every entry point, which took longer to
implement, but they had the limit on in time for Christmas.
....
> The way I read this, it seems that NSL doesn't apply on these roads and
> the only speed limit is a 70mph limit for all vehicles including vans and
> trucks. That can't be right can it?
I can't be bothered to wade my way through the various enactments to work
that out. However, this section of road is a bit of a Cinderella, so it may
well have different provisions from other roads, whether intentionally or
not
Colin Bignell
Hugo Nebula
> I'm curious about the 70mph speed limit signs on the A55 in North Wales. I
> think I've gone just about as far as Google's going to get me with this so I
> wondered if anybody has further information. Here's where I've got to so
> far:
>
> Sections of the A55 are designated as a 'Special Road'.
> The way I read this, it seems that NSL doesn't apply on these roads and the
> only speed limit is a 70mph limit for all vehicles including vans and
> trucks. That can't be right can it?
http://www.cbrd.co.uk/motorway/a55/
--
Hugo Nebula
"If no-one on the internet wants a piece of this,
just how far from the pack have you strayed"?
Nick Finnigan
> I'm curious about the 70mph speed limit signs on the A55 in North Wales. I
> think I've gone just about as far as Google's going to get me with this so I
> wondered if anybody has further information. Here's where I've got to so
> far:
>
> Here's my first problem: I've never heard of "the 70 miles per hour, 60
> miles per hour and 50 miles per hour (Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977"
> which apparently doesn't apply to 'special roads' anyway. I infer from the
> name that it probably brought the National Speed Limit into being - is that
> correct?
Sort of, see Nightjar's answer.
>
> This brings me to my main question. The page mentioned above was obviously
> current in 1990, yet I thought that speed limits were laid down by vehicle
> and road type in the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984, which I would have
For vehicles other than cars and motorcycles.
> assumed replaced the provisions of the 70 miles per hour, etc. Orders
> 1977/78. Is this the case or does this 70 miles per hour, etc still exist.
Yep, the temporary order has an indefinite extension.
> More importantly, are 'special roads' subject to the vehicle/road speed
> limits laid down in the RTRA 1984?
Not for cars and motorcycles. It is unclear for other vehicles.
Online at www.statutelaw.gov.uk
> As many will know, some sections of the A55 North Wales Expressway, have
> speed limit signs showing 70mph in red roundels. I assume that these are the
> sections which are designated as 'special roads', which I had assumed, if
> the NSL didn't apply, would have some sort of Order or Regulation enacted to
> mirror the NSL for all vehicles. However the current legislation concerning
> at least one stretch of this road seems to me to apply a blanket 70mph speed
> limit to all vehicles. That's the A55 Trunk Road (Glan Conwy - Conwy Morfa,
Correct.
> So, in short, do the speed limits in the RTRA 1984 apply to 'special roads'
> or not, if they do then what's the purpose of the A55 Trunk Road etc Order
> above, if not then where is the speed limit on these 'special' sections of
> the A55 for vehicles other than cars laid down?
Unclear, and if not then it is 70 for everything.
> The way I read this, it seems that NSL doesn't apply on these roads and the
> only speed limit is a 70mph limit for all vehicles including vans and
> trucks. That can't be right can it?
'NSL' is not as simple as the Highway Code would have you believe.
The Motorways' 70 is one reg, other roads' 70 and 60 another reg, built
up areas' 30 a third reg, limits for inferior vehicles a fourth reg.
Nick Finnigan
> "THAT Alec" <myname...@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:39493$48e1312f$52...@news.teranews.com...
>
>>I'm curious about the 70mph speed limit signs on the A55 in North Wales. I
>>think I've gone just about as far as Google's going to get me with this so
>>I wondered if anybody has further information. Here's where I've got to so
>>far:
>>
>>Sections of the A55 are designated as a 'Special Road'.
>
>
> A special road is one that is not a public right of way and is restricted to
> motorised traffic. The legislation dates back to 1948, although it was not
> used for a number of years. SFAIK, the A55 Colwyn Bay section is the only
> length of special road that is not a motorway.
The recent Special roads near Edinburgh are also not motorways (A1 and
outer ring road).
THAT Alec
"Nick Finnigan" <n...@genie.co.uk> wrote in message
news:gbtsfd$ens$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
So are you saying that this 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour etc Order
is still in force and that the RTRA 1984 introduces a further layer of
restictions on top of that? That makes sense.
Section 86 of the RTRA seems to restrict all the vehicles listed in Schedule
6 to the limits laid out, on whatever roads they're on. There's no
exceptions for 'special roads' as far as I can make out. I'm happy for
anyone to point out what I'm missing though.
So AFAICS cars, bikes and car-derived vans are restricted by the NSL limits
laid down by the 70mph, 60 mph thing, on roads other than motorways and
other special roads, when driving without trailers. RTRA 1984 adds
restrictions based on vehicle type/weight for other vehicles and for cars
etc towing trailers, whether or not the speed limit is indicated at a higher
limit.
So (if the paragraph above is correct) the only speed limit that has to be
set for each individual 'special road' is the speed limit for cars,
car-derived vans, dual-purpose vehicles and bikes?
I think this leaves me with exactly the same belief that I had before
somebody on a forum argued that the 70 mph signs were unlawful because they
were 'confusing' to lorry and large van drivers.
Alex Heney
But large trucks can't legally drive at 70mph on motorways, and any
which can are also allowed to drive at 70mph on all NSL dual
carriageways.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
The best defense against logic is stupidity.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
Nick Finnigan
>
> Section 86 of the RTRA seems to restrict all the vehicles listed in Schedule
> 6 to the limits laid out, on whatever roads they're on. There's no
> exceptions for 'special roads' as far as I can make out. I'm happy for
> anyone to point out what I'm missing though.
There is no exception mentioned, nor any specific applicability.
However, it is unlikely that the limits apply to private roads.
> So AFAICS cars, bikes and car-derived vans are restricted by the NSL limits
> laid down by the 70mph, 60 mph thing, on roads other than motorways and
> other special roads, when driving without trailers. RTRA 1984 adds
> restrictions based on vehicle type/weight for other vehicles and for cars
> etc towing trailers, whether or not the speed limit is indicated at a higher
> limit.
>
> So (if the paragraph above is correct) the only speed limit that has to be
> set for each individual 'special road' is the speed limit for cars,
> car-derived vans, dual-purpose vehicles and bikes?
No one /has/ to set a speed limit for special roads.
> I think this leaves me with exactly the same belief that I had before
> somebody on a forum argued that the 70 mph signs were unlawful because they
> were 'confusing' to lorry and large van drivers.
Any sign which the Highways Agency erects on a trunk road is legal.
Even if it is confusing, distracting, and unenforceable.
THAT Alec
> THAT Alec wrote:
>>
>>
>> So (if the paragraph above is correct) the only speed limit that has to
>> be set for each individual 'special road' is the speed limit for cars,
>> car-derived vans, dual-purpose vehicles and bikes?
>
> No one /has/ to set a speed limit for special roads.
There'd be no speed limit otherwise. Where would we be without rules?
>
>> I think this leaves me with exactly the same belief that I had before
>> somebody on a forum argued that the 70 mph signs were unlawful because
>> they were 'confusing' to lorry and large van drivers.
>
> Any sign which the Highways Agency erects on a trunk road is legal.
> Even if it is confusing, distracting, and unenforceable.
Highways Agency in Wales?
In fact it's apparently someone from the DfT claiming that the signs are
unlawful, although that may be paraphrased from 'not legally enforeceable'.
However as it's in Wales it's got sod all to do with the DfT anyway so I
can't really see why he felt the need to get involved.
M.I.5¾
"Alex Heney" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:f155e413edh3cfd6j...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:42:42 +0100, "M.I.5พ"
I can't comment for large trucks (not ever having a need to drive one), but
the position for vans* certainly used to be that they were limited to 50 mph
on standard NSL roads but were permitted to do 70 on a motorway. I believe
the same is true for large trucks because there are such trucks that drive
at 70 mph on motorways.
* a van being any vehicle that does not have side windows behind the driver.
THAT Alec
"M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:48e32332$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...>> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:42:42 +0100, "M.I.5¾"
Maximum speed limits for goods vehicles (vans and small trucks up to 7.5t)
other than car-derived vans are 50mph on SC NSL, 60 on DC NSL and 70 on
Motorways. Most vans/trucks over 3.5t are now fitted with 56mph speed
limiters.
For 'large trucks' it's SC NSL 40, DC NSL 50 and 60 on Motorways, although
again they're fitted with speed limiters.
Car-derived vans are treated as cars, although the interpretation of
car-derived van is up for debate.
And on that point, does anyone know the definition of car-derived van
provided by the 70 miles per hour, 60 miles per hour and 50 miles per hour
(Temporary Speed Limit) Order 1977?
M.I.5¾
"THAT Alec" <myname...@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
>
> "M.I.5พ" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
>>
>> "Alex Heney" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>> news:f155e413edh3cfd6j...@4ax.com...
So this explains the difference in speed signage for special roads which is
along the lines I suggested.
Airmax
"M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:48e32332$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>>> On Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:42:42 +0100, "M.I.5¾"
* What about car derived vans they don't have windows behind either
R. Mark Clayton
"M.I.5¾" <no....@no.where.NO_SPAM.co.uk> wrote in message
news:48e33c4f$1...@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
>
> "THAT Alec" <myname...@gmail.invalid> wrote in message
> news:df3ee$48e33776$29...@news.teranews.com...
>>
>>>
>>> "Alex Heney" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>>> news:f155e413edh3cfd6j...@4ax.com...
Speed limits from Highway Code
Built-up areas *
Single carriage-ways
Dual carriage-ways
Motorways
Type of vehicle
mph (km/h)
mph (km/h)
mph (km/h)
mph (km/h)
Cars & motorcycles
(including car-derived vans up to 2 tonnes maximum laden weight)
30 (48)
60 (96)
70 (112)
70 (112)
Cars towing caravans or trailers
(including car-derived vans and motorcycles)
30 (48)
50 (80)
60 (96)
60 (96)
Buses, coaches and minibuses
(not exceeding 12 metres in overall length)
30 (48)
50 (80)
60 (96)
70 (112)
Goods vehicles
(not exceeding 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight)
30 (48)
50 (80)
60 (96)
70 (112) **
Goods vehicles
(exceeding 7.5 tonnes maximum laden weight)
30 (48)
40 (64)
50 (80)
60 (96)
* The 30 mph limit usually applies to all traffic on all roads with street
lighting unless signs show otherwise.
** 60 mph (96 km/h) if articulated or towing a trailer.
As you can see there is no difference for cars & bikes but it is 10mph less
for almost all other vehicles.
The 70mph may be a national thing. Motorways in England show an NSL sign on
motorways, whereas in Scotland they show 70.
The A55 is the tax scamera turnpike, and the chief constable in the area
(Brunstrom) is messianic about speeding*, so a little bit of confusion for
LGV and HGV will help swell the coffers.
* although it can take them weeks to arrest a local loony for cannibalism...
Nick Finnigan
> "Nick Finnigan" <n...@genie.co.uk> wrote in message
> news:gbu85a$g77$1...@registered.motzarella.org...
>
>>
>>Even if it is confusing, distracting, and unenforceable.
>
> Highways Agency in Wales?
They have been, but Highway Authority would be more accurate.
>
> In fact it's apparently someone from the DfT claiming that the signs are
> unlawful, although that may be paraphrased from 'not legally enforeceable'.
The 70 is certainly enforceable. I don't think anyone would bother
about trucks doing 56mph anyway.
Elder
> What are you talking about, the A55 is a dual carriageway and the NSL for
> dual carriageways is 70MPH
>
A very big difference.
--
Carl Robson
Get cashback on your purchases
Topcashback http://www.TopCashBack.co.uk/skraggy_uk/ref/index.htm
Greasypalm http://www.greasypalm.co.uk/r/?l=1006553
Mike Ross
>THAT Alec wrote:
>> assumed replaced the provisions of the 70 miles per hour, etc. Orders
>> 1977/78. Is this the case or does this 70 miles per hour, etc still exist.
>
> Yep, the temporary order has an indefinite extension.
There's nothing so permanent as a 'temporary' restriction or emergency. A point
worth bearing in mind when reviewing counter-terrorism legislation, for
instance...
Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'
M.I.5�
"R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote in message
news:iYGdnTzD3phWA37V...@bt.com...
Nope. Motorways in England show a 70 sign not a NSL.
Hugo Nebula
> There'd be no speed limit otherwise. Where would we be without rules?
Able to make our own judgements based on the prevailing conditions.
Hugo Nebula
> I've not come across such signs anywhere else in the UK, and like the
> OP, I'd be interested to know why they indicate 70 rather than NSL, and
> what this means. I'm not as interested as *he* obviously is, but mildly
> interested.
>
The SC Daresbury Expressway (A558) in Runcorn has 60mph repeaters rather
than NSLs. AFAIK, this is an ordinary road, not a 'special road'.
johannes
Hugo Nebula wrote:
>
> THAT Alec wrote:
>
> > There'd be no speed limit otherwise. Where would we be without rules?
>
> Able to make our own judgements based on the prevailing conditions.
Could do, but you would never know 'prevailing conditions' until it's too
late. You would not know how many access roads there are, residents
expectations of fast traffic, likelihood of farm animals, imperfections
of the road surface or road angles etc. You will only guess. It will be
trial and error with 99% chance of success. But not enough since 1% will
kill you or others.
Hugo Nebula
Unlike now, where a road is "safe" at xx mph, but "unsafe" at xx+10%+2
mph, irrespective of the state of the road, driver, car, weather, etc.
One could reintroduce the principle of "drive at a speed that you can
stop in the distance you can see to be clear", and leave it up to the
individual to judge that. By far the majority of people will get it right.
johannes
Hugo Nebula wrote:
>
> johannes wrote:
> >
> > Hugo Nebula wrote:
> >> THAT Alec wrote:
> >>
> >>> There'd be no speed limit otherwise. Where would we be without rules?
> >> Able to make our own judgements based on the prevailing conditions.
> >
> > Could do, but you would never know 'prevailing conditions' until it's too
> > late. You would not know how many access roads there are, residents
> > expectations of fast traffic, likelihood of farm animals, imperfections
> > of the road surface or road angles etc. You will only guess. It will be
> > trial and error with 99% chance of success. But not enough since 1% will
> > kill you or others.
>
> Unlike now, where a road is "safe" at xx mph, but "unsafe" at xx+10%+2
> mph, irrespective of the state of the road, driver, car, weather, etc.
This is your own imagination.
> One could reintroduce the principle of "drive at a speed that you can
> stop in the distance you can see to be clear", and leave it up to the
> individual to judge that. By far the majority of people will get it right.
Many drivers think they are . There is also the regard to people living in
the area; they might find fast drivers a nuisance.
Ian Dalziel
Who is it who goes round changing the speed limits to take account of
prevailing conditions, then?
--
Ian D
johannes
"Prevailing condition" is only one part of it. "Traffic calming" is
another part of the equation. Local people might find fast traffic
a nuisance. Why should you have to live in the middle of a race track
when you want to cross the road or exit from a junction?
Ian Dalziel
Why should it need a number on a stick to stop people driving like
twonks?
--
Ian D
Alex Heney
<ianda...@lineone.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:46:14 +0100, johannes
><jo...@sizefit4356533664ter.com> wrote:
>
<snip>
>>
>>"Prevailing condition" is only one part of it. "Traffic calming" is
>>another part of the equation. Local people might find fast traffic
>>a nuisance. Why should you have to live in the middle of a race track
>>when you want to cross the road or exit from a junction?
>
>Why should it need a number on a stick to stop people driving like
>twonks?
I don't think anybody has ever suggested it *should* need such a
thing.
But whether it *should* need it and whether it *does* need it are
entirely different matters.
Although TBH, I don't think the people who drive like twonks are
usually among the minority who obey speed limits anyhow.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
My inferiority complexes aren't as good as yours.
Mike Barnes
>Why should it need a number on a stick to stop people driving like
>twonks?
Because a lot of people *are* twonks?
--
Mike Barnes
Ian Dalziel
wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 21:20:09 +0100, Ian Dalziel
><ianda...@lineone.net> wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 05 Oct 2008 19:46:14 +0100, johannes
>><jo...@sizefit4356533664ter.com> wrote:
>>
><snip>
>
>>>
>>>"Prevailing condition" is only one part of it. "Traffic calming" is
>>>another part of the equation. Local people might find fast traffic
>>>a nuisance. Why should you have to live in the middle of a race track
>>>when you want to cross the road or exit from a junction?
>>
>>Why should it need a number on a stick to stop people driving like
>>twonks?
>
>I don't think anybody has ever suggested it *should* need such a
>thing.
>
>But whether it *should* need it and whether it *does* need it are
>entirely different matters.
>
>Although TBH, I don't think the people who drive like twonks are
>usually among the minority who obey speed limits anyhow.
Quite.
--
Ian D
Steve Firth
> I don't think the people who drive like twonks are
> usually among the minority who obey speed limits anyhow.
I beg to differ. Most of the people I see driving like Twonks are in the
"minority" who stay within the speed limit. Random application of
brakes, changing lanes without signalling or even looking, driving too
fast for the conditions (but within the speed limits), being unaware of
speed limits and driving (usually) some 15mph below the speed limit
oblivious to the rapidly developing queue of following traffic, "I know
my rights" driving by people who apparently never read the Highway Code
or who read it once then forgot it after the test.
etc. etc. etc.
I'd say the number of drivers exceeding NSL and driving like twonks is a
tiny minority of the twonk population.
Ian Dalziel
wrote:
Also true, but I was referring to the subset of twonks who make a
public road "like a race track".
I feel it would be preferable to make use of the legislation which
forbids driving like a twonk (possibly not in those exact words)
rather than hope that numbers on sticks will have some magical
de-twonking effect.
--
Ian D
Graz
wrote:
>Alex Heney <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
Exceeding the NSL makes you a twonk, you dumb wop.
Ian Dalziel
As the old saying has it: "Speak of the Twonk and he's sure to
appear".
--
Ian D
Hugo Nebula
> I'd say the number of drivers exceeding NSL and driving like twonks is a
> tiny minority of the twonk population.
US Govt. research agrees; "There is evidence that crash risk is lowest
near the average speed of traffic and increases for vehicles travelling
much faster or slower than average". And, "In general, changing speed
limits on low and moderate speed roads appears to have little or no
effect on speed and thus little or no effect on crashes. This suggests
that drivers travel at speeds they feel are reasonable and safe for the
road and traffic regardless of the posted limit".
(http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/speed/speed.htm)
Graz
And here you are!
One such twonk got seven years in jail today.
Jeff York
>Steve Firth wrote:
>
>> I'd say the number of drivers exceeding NSL and driving like twonks is a
>> tiny minority of the twonk population.
>
>US Govt. research agrees; "There is evidence that crash risk is lowest
>near the average speed of traffic and increases for vehicles travelling
>much faster or slower than average". And, "In general, changing speed
>limits on low and moderate speed roads appears to have little or no
>effect on speed and thus little or no effect on crashes. This suggests
>that drivers travel at speeds they feel are reasonable and safe for the
>road and traffic regardless of the posted limit".
>(http://www.tfhrc.gov/safety/speed/speed.htm)
... which, in the guise of the "85th percentile rule" *used* to be the
basis for setting speed limits.
johannes
Steve Firth wrote:
>
> Alex Heney <m...@privacy.net> wrote:
>
> > I don't think the people who drive like twonks are
> > usually among the minority who obey speed limits anyhow.
>
> I beg to differ. Most of the people I see driving like Twonks are in the
> "minority" who stay within the speed limit. Random application of
> brakes,
Or so it seems to some... Opposite side of the road was full of parked
cars outside a hospital, only my lane was open. Two busses were trying
to get through from opposite direction, so I stopped (gently) to let the
busses through and to ease the problem. The first bus driver was happy
and waved at me.
But... Squealing tyres behind me, a chav lady just managed to avoid
running into the back of my car: For her, I was probably a nutcase of
"Random braking" for no reason, since I had right of way over the busses!
Steve Firth
> Two busses
Only two? I think I've been kissed more often than that.
Elder
says...
> The SC Daresbury Expressway (A558) in Runcorn has 60mph repeaters rather
> than NSLs. AFAIK, this is an ordinary road, not a 'special road'.
>
it, but it is.
Hugo Nebula
> .... which, in the guise of the "85th percentile rule" *used* to be the
> basis for setting speed limits.
>
Now it's OK to criminalise half of the drivers on the road.