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The Duchess - Was Jimmy Saville Was The One She Kept for Herself?
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Turk182
Oct 11, 2012, 3:42:10 PM10/11/12
to
You won’t find this on Woman’s Hour!
I am having an early look at this subject, as the news media will not
allow you into the mind’s of abusers, except to say that they are evil
- that’s it! The media are only looking for a hate reaction. Such
analysis of lives does not generate hatred so it would be rejected.
Today, the media want to sell Jimmy as a monster - they can't afford
you to have two or more views. A good man who also did bad things
does not sell papers - they will only be happy when he is portrayed as
the anti-Christ.
Meanwhile the queue for compensation gets longer - as all have been
told by the BBC that they all MUST be believed. No matter how many
opportunists appear, anyone who challenges their version will be
castrated by Jane Garvey and her butch minders.
So: Early thoughts.
Jimmy Saville's devout Roman Catholic mother, brought him up alone
from when he was still a small boy following the death of his father.
(Saville almost died of pneumonia at the age of five months).
From interviews seen and heard so far, it appears the Jim, being the
youngest of 7 children, was to be the one who remained bonded to
mother, even though originally he put himself at about 5th in her list
of favourites.
The Duchess was described as so naive that, although she had 7 babies,
she didn't have any idea how she had got pregnant. Jim was constantly
worried about her and the dangers’ that could befall her. That worry
didn't lift from him until she died. He said that nothing could harm
her now and listed a number of contemporary dangers. Feelings seems to
have been a no go area between The Duchess and Jim, but he was a
steadfast soldier and protector. Her covert sexuality could only be
accessed by accident. In later life he grew to be amused by her
(there was something psychologically unreal about her). She seems to
have invented or misread situations. Jimmy grew attached in a way
that people now regard as unhealthy.
Jim kept a full wardrobe of her clothes following her quick death.
Saville chose young girls and seems to have had no evident emotional
language or expression in his relationships with them In not seeking
women, Saville seems to have selected replica relationships to his
mum. Naive, unknowing, vulnerable girls - people who were so young
that they emulated the girlish naivety and frailty of mum. He formed
no attachment to these people as far as we know - there was only truly
one woman in Saville's life - the Duchess. Every girl Saville
'tested' seems not have come up to her - and really never would. He
would snatch or grab an overly intimate kiss or touch as if hungry for
a contact no matter how fleeting or grubby it may appear. This could
have been an element of how mother related - denying sexuality - but
spilling over in occasionally inappropriate gestures (not confirmed).
Whatever she did or didn’t do, it would have been more about
unconscious needs rather than anything done deliberately. I do not
apportion blame; I only look for reasons of how these things happen in
the growth of child’s mind.
Something was nagginf the Duchess - she seems to have known that the
police would come knocking at the door one day, and kept reminding Jim
by saying, "You have been up to something". The Duchess said that she
thought it may be linked to stealing money, but in reality - perhaps
her unconscious perception had told her that Jim might be in trouble
about stealing kisses, stealing sex and living a life which had become
so distorted due to his need to let mum remain in a premier position
in his life. Where was the evidence of his sexuality? Catholicism is
full of disaster stories of children’s arrested sexual development and
guilt.
Jim seems not have had a male role model. As with his words, Jim made
up life as he went along. Although he possessed a keen methodical
mind, he had no access to emotions - a Yorkshireman; a fighter -
tough, sturdy and emotionally illiterate. Without male influence, he
grew into a figure that would look very out of place and unwelcome (to
some but not all!) in a coal mine. He didn't really belong anywhere
except on a stage or screen - a figure of fun (and now it seems
misery), who's sheer front, and denial of negatives and disadvantage
carried him through.
The libido forces sexual expression when objects are put in it's way.
If this happens during adolescence it can forever shape the direction
of one's sexuality. Jim’s developing sexuality, amid the supposed
guilt and judgement of parental Catholicism, seems to have gone
hurtling off course. As much as people may now hate him - be thankful
it didn’t happen to you. It is only by living a person’s precise life
(something you can never do) that you find out if you are better or
worse than them.
Jim blamed The Yorkshire Ripper’s wife for the way Sutcliffe behaved.
Jim may also have been aware at some level, that the explanation for
his own sexuality being heavily off course (and I explanation but
never the blame), may lay in the (often absent) arms of the mum that
simply would not, or could not let him go - I suggest she emitted a
neediness, and he was hooked.
This is only an early theory, but there is much more to research. I
hope you find parts useful, but please don’t blame me for doing what
the media will almost entirely svoid doing. They do not not want you
to know this sort of information. The 'Woman’s Hour' feminists would
NEVER associate mother with a damaged child. Mums only make well-
adjusted babies and adults - OK! If anyone screwd up the kids, it
must have been dad! (Only this one was very dead).
Turk182
I am having an early look at this subject, as the news media will not
allow you into the mind’s of abusers, except to say that they are evil
- that’s it! The media are only looking for a hate reaction. Such
analysis of lives does not generate hatred so it would be rejected.
Today, the media want to sell Jimmy as a monster - they can't afford
you to have two or more views. A good man who also did bad things
does not sell papers - they will only be happy when he is portrayed as
the anti-Christ.
Meanwhile the queue for compensation gets longer - as all have been
told by the BBC that they all MUST be believed. No matter how many
opportunists appear, anyone who challenges their version will be
castrated by Jane Garvey and her butch minders.
So: Early thoughts.
Jimmy Saville's devout Roman Catholic mother, brought him up alone
from when he was still a small boy following the death of his father.
(Saville almost died of pneumonia at the age of five months).
From interviews seen and heard so far, it appears the Jim, being the
youngest of 7 children, was to be the one who remained bonded to
mother, even though originally he put himself at about 5th in her list
of favourites.
The Duchess was described as so naive that, although she had 7 babies,
she didn't have any idea how she had got pregnant. Jim was constantly
worried about her and the dangers’ that could befall her. That worry
didn't lift from him until she died. He said that nothing could harm
her now and listed a number of contemporary dangers. Feelings seems to
have been a no go area between The Duchess and Jim, but he was a
steadfast soldier and protector. Her covert sexuality could only be
accessed by accident. In later life he grew to be amused by her
(there was something psychologically unreal about her). She seems to
have invented or misread situations. Jimmy grew attached in a way
that people now regard as unhealthy.
Jim kept a full wardrobe of her clothes following her quick death.
Saville chose young girls and seems to have had no evident emotional
language or expression in his relationships with them In not seeking
women, Saville seems to have selected replica relationships to his
mum. Naive, unknowing, vulnerable girls - people who were so young
that they emulated the girlish naivety and frailty of mum. He formed
no attachment to these people as far as we know - there was only truly
one woman in Saville's life - the Duchess. Every girl Saville
'tested' seems not have come up to her - and really never would. He
would snatch or grab an overly intimate kiss or touch as if hungry for
a contact no matter how fleeting or grubby it may appear. This could
have been an element of how mother related - denying sexuality - but
spilling over in occasionally inappropriate gestures (not confirmed).
Whatever she did or didn’t do, it would have been more about
unconscious needs rather than anything done deliberately. I do not
apportion blame; I only look for reasons of how these things happen in
the growth of child’s mind.
Something was nagginf the Duchess - she seems to have known that the
police would come knocking at the door one day, and kept reminding Jim
by saying, "You have been up to something". The Duchess said that she
thought it may be linked to stealing money, but in reality - perhaps
her unconscious perception had told her that Jim might be in trouble
about stealing kisses, stealing sex and living a life which had become
so distorted due to his need to let mum remain in a premier position
in his life. Where was the evidence of his sexuality? Catholicism is
full of disaster stories of children’s arrested sexual development and
guilt.
Jim seems not have had a male role model. As with his words, Jim made
up life as he went along. Although he possessed a keen methodical
mind, he had no access to emotions - a Yorkshireman; a fighter -
tough, sturdy and emotionally illiterate. Without male influence, he
grew into a figure that would look very out of place and unwelcome (to
some but not all!) in a coal mine. He didn't really belong anywhere
except on a stage or screen - a figure of fun (and now it seems
misery), who's sheer front, and denial of negatives and disadvantage
carried him through.
The libido forces sexual expression when objects are put in it's way.
If this happens during adolescence it can forever shape the direction
of one's sexuality. Jim’s developing sexuality, amid the supposed
guilt and judgement of parental Catholicism, seems to have gone
hurtling off course. As much as people may now hate him - be thankful
it didn’t happen to you. It is only by living a person’s precise life
(something you can never do) that you find out if you are better or
worse than them.
Jim blamed The Yorkshire Ripper’s wife for the way Sutcliffe behaved.
Jim may also have been aware at some level, that the explanation for
his own sexuality being heavily off course (and I explanation but
never the blame), may lay in the (often absent) arms of the mum that
simply would not, or could not let him go - I suggest she emitted a
neediness, and he was hooked.
This is only an early theory, but there is much more to research. I
hope you find parts useful, but please don’t blame me for doing what
the media will almost entirely svoid doing. They do not not want you
to know this sort of information. The 'Woman’s Hour' feminists would
NEVER associate mother with a damaged child. Mums only make well-
adjusted babies and adults - OK! If anyone screwd up the kids, it
must have been dad! (Only this one was very dead).
Turk182
omega
Oct 11, 2012, 5:21:56 PM10/11/12
to
You're hard work at times Turk, but Roman Catholic does ring a bell indeed.
Nite
omega ......
Turk182
Oct 11, 2012, 6:05:21 PM10/11/12
to
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yep. Thanks for saying I'm hard work but thanks even more for reading
it and working with it
Repression, denial of sexual needs, contraception immoral,
brainwashed, acceptance of abuse.
I worked with a mum who recounted her childhood in Ireland. The local
Catholic priest used to come into her house every Sunday and abuse
her. The parents just let him. In later life, she had so shut out
the awfulness of her childhood, that she described her childhood as
"perfect.
Turk182
The Todal
Oct 11, 2012, 6:56:00 PM10/11/12
to
On 11/10/2012 23:05, Turk182 wrote:
>
> I worked with a mum who recounted her childhood in Ireland. The local
> Catholic priest used to come into her house every Sunday and abuse
> her. The parents just let him. In later life, she had so shut out
> the awfulness of her childhood, that she described her childhood as
> "perfect.
There are many here who would respond "surely she would have complained
>
> I worked with a mum who recounted her childhood in Ireland. The local
> Catholic priest used to come into her house every Sunday and abuse
> her. The parents just let him. In later life, she had so shut out
> the awfulness of her childhood, that she described her childhood as
> "perfect.
to the police if this was happening. So she must be lying".
Steerpike
Oct 11, 2012, 7:14:01 PM10/11/12
to
Savile is dead and buried, why fall for the MSM propaganda, designed to divert attention from the abusers still working at the BBC today?
nutherpe...@yahoo.co.uk
Oct 11, 2012, 9:30:23 PM10/11/12
to
On Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:42:11 PM UTC+1, Turk182 wrote:
,,,,,,
> You won’t find this on Woman’s Hour!
>
I could imagine Jim,s ol mom having quite
a collection of clothes,, as does mine,,,
I do not see anything sinister or strangely indicative
that he still has some about the place,,
especially if he does not need the room..
More of a reflection on the specie,,
a simple food shopping trip required hours
of dressing up beforehand,,, adding hours
to the event...
Anyway,,, thas bye the bye,,,
I am more interested in your comment re
Saville and Sutty,, and Sonia,,
Snip,,
Jim blamed The Yorkshire Ripper’s wife for the way Sutcliffe behaved.
Jim may also have been aware at some level, that the explanation for
his own sexuality being heavily off course (and I explanation but
never the blame), may lay in the (often absent) arms of the mum that
simply would not, or could not let him go - I suggest she emitted a
Anyone active in selling the Smutty myth,,,
will ,, of course,, have connections in high places...
Possibly placing him above the law,,
Did he do a lot of that in the early eighties,,
some of the early books are so full of crapp
I cannot bear to read them,,,
Apparently Sonia was trying to smuggle
hack-saw blades for Pete to escape with..
(Voices from an Evil God)
Nearly 400 hundred pages of utter drivel
from Barbara Jones,,,
Her top credits..
Go to Barry Askew and Bill Frost,,,
NOTW,, and Times respectively..
And of course,, NOTW were over there in
Ireland to witness the farcical written
confession of Wiliam Tracey,,,
The YR case has a history of spoofin-the-truth
Media giving us a visible Monster is not a new thing..
While,,,
Bigger an badder,, swim unseen in tha river of Glugg
........................
nutherpe...@yahoo.co.uk
Oct 11, 2012, 10:39:33 PM10/11/12
to
On Friday, October 12, 2012 2:30:23 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
> On Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:42:11 PM UTC+1, Turk182 wrote:
>
,,,,,,,,,,
> On Thursday, October 11, 2012 8:42:11 PM UTC+1, Turk182 wrote:
>
>
> > You won’t find this on Woman’s Hour!
>
> >
>
> > Turk182
>
>
>
> I could imagine Jim,s ol mom having quite
>
> a collection of clothes,, as does mine,,,
>
> I do not see anything sinister or strangely indicative
>
> that he still has some about the place,,
>
> especially if he does not need the room..
>
> More of a reflection on the specie,,
>
> a simple food shopping trip required hours
>
> of dressing up beforehand,,, adding hours
>
> to the event...
>
>
>
> Anyway,,, thas bye the bye,,,
>
>
>
> I am more interested in your comment re
>
> Saville and Sutty,, and Sonia,,
> Turk snip,,
>
>
> I could imagine Jim,s ol mom having quite
>
> a collection of clothes,, as does mine,,,
>
> I do not see anything sinister or strangely indicative
>
> that he still has some about the place,,
>
> especially if he does not need the room..
>
> More of a reflection on the specie,,
>
> a simple food shopping trip required hours
>
> of dressing up beforehand,,, adding hours
>
> to the event...
>
>
>
> Anyway,,, thas bye the bye,,,
>
>
>
> I am more interested in your comment re
>
> Saville and Sutty,, and Sonia,,
> Jim blamed The Yorkshire Ripper’s wife for the way Sutcliffe behaved.
>
> Jim may also have been aware at some level, that the explanation for
>
> his own sexuality being heavily off course (and I explanation but
>
> never the blame), may lay in the (often absent) arms of the mum that
>
> simply would not, or could not let him go - I suggest she emitted a
>
> neediness, and he was hooked....
>
> Anyone active in selling the Smutty myth,,,
>
> will ,, of course,, have connections in high places...
>
> Possibly placing him above the law,,
>
>
>
> Did he do a lot of that in the early eighties,,
>
> some of the early books are so full of crapp
>
> I cannot bear to read them,,,
> Apparently Sonia was trying to smuggle
> hack-saw blades for Pete to escape with..
> (Voices from an Evil God)
> Nearly 400 hundred pages of utter drivel
>
> from Barbara Jones,,,
> Her top credits..
> Go to Barry Askew and Bill Frost,,,
>
> NOTW,, and Times respectively..
Sonia,,, famously,,
>
> will ,, of course,, have connections in high places...
>
> Possibly placing him above the law,,
>
>
>
> Did he do a lot of that in the early eighties,,
>
> some of the early books are so full of crapp
>
> I cannot bear to read them,,,
> Apparently Sonia was trying to smuggle
> hack-saw blades for Pete to escape with..
> (Voices from an Evil God)
> Nearly 400 hundred pages of utter drivel
>
> from Barbara Jones,,,
> Her top credits..
> Go to Barry Askew and Bill Frost,,,
>
> NOTW,, and Times respectively..
sued NOTW for loads of lolly..
,,,
> And of course,, NOTW were over there in
> Ireland to witness the farcical written
> confession of Wiliam Tracey,,,
>
> The YR case has a history of spoofin-the-truth
> Media giving us a visible Monster is not a new thing..
>
> Meanwhile,,,
> Ireland to witness the farcical written
> confession of Wiliam Tracey,,,
>
> The YR case has a history of spoofin-the-truth
> Media giving us a visible Monster is not a new thing..
>
>
> Bigger an badder,, swim unseen in tha river of Glugg
>
>
>
> ........................
I wonder we do not see a new headline...
> Bigger an badder,, swim unseen in tha river of Glugg
>
>
>
> ........................
From the
Slytheren Citizen ....
Who's da Baddest Broadmoor Baddie,,
Saville an Smutty
punch it out,,
wi Bruno as ref..
,,,
Oh Well
it was a damm queer piccy..
http://tinyurl.com/7r8e5t4
,,,,,,,,
Perhaps this will help show
the sense of pantomime I get...
http://tinyurl.com/9lx9og6
How much money does Barbara think she'll make?
‘You can't put a sum on it.'
But the News of the World paid £80,000 for its serialisation.
‘I'm going to make a donation to the victims' trust.'
Barbara, an erstwhile Campaigning Journalist of the Year,
author and former investigative reporter with The Mail on Sunday,
is now a freelance writer.
Private Eye described her as the seamstress of Fleet Street
for her skill at stitching up people.
............
nuther..
......................................
nutherpe...@yahoo.co.uk
Oct 12, 2012, 1:51:55 AM10/12/12
to
On Friday, October 12, 2012 3:39:33 AM UTC+1, (unknown) wrote:
Smee again,,
>
> > > Turk182
Pologies for the hi-
No shortage of links today,,
Guardian and Mail
report that Jim had the keys to Broadmoor
forty years ago,,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/11/jimmy-savile-broadmoor-abuse-allegations
Snip..
Saville, who died last October,
worked at Broadmoor as a volunteer for almost 40 years,
describing himself as the "honorary assistant entertainments officer".
He had an office and living quarters at the hospital
and was given a personal set of keys to the wards,
??????
I quite like the Belfasttelegraph,,
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/jimmy-savile-why-did-nobody-stop-him-16223317.html
And The Mirror..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-savile-abuse-allegations-brian-1359118
,,,,,,,,,
Back in the 80's and early 90's
there was another disquiet in the press,,
Nuther Ripper,, uncaught Ripper..
Nuther Killer,, Smutties Pal,,cetra...
Rumour's were rife
but came to nowt,,
NOTW reported vieled sugestions
that Saville could
sneak Smutty outta tha back door..
Saville responded wi legal beagals,,
and I can find no copy of the article,,
Only wiki records it,,
here..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile
,,,,,,
Tha story was run in 1888,, oop's 1988..
in 1997,,
this was in tha news
Sunday Times,,
http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=15225
..................................
Smee again,,
>
> > > Turk182
Pologies for the hi-
No shortage of links today,,
Guardian and Mail
report that Jim had the keys to Broadmoor
forty years ago,,
http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2012/oct/11/jimmy-savile-broadmoor-abuse-allegations
Snip..
Saville, who died last October,
worked at Broadmoor as a volunteer for almost 40 years,
describing himself as the "honorary assistant entertainments officer".
He had an office and living quarters at the hospital
and was given a personal set of keys to the wards,
??????
I quite like the Belfasttelegraph,,
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/uk/jimmy-savile-why-did-nobody-stop-him-16223317.html
And The Mirror..
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/jimmy-savile-abuse-allegations-brian-1359118
,,,,,,,,,
Back in the 80's and early 90's
there was another disquiet in the press,,
Nuther Ripper,, uncaught Ripper..
Nuther Killer,, Smutties Pal,,cetra...
Rumour's were rife
but came to nowt,,
NOTW reported vieled sugestions
that Saville could
sneak Smutty outta tha back door..
Saville responded wi legal beagals,,
and I can find no copy of the article,,
Only wiki records it,,
here..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jimmy_Savile
,,,,,,
Tha story was run in 1888,, oop's 1988..
in 1997,,
this was in tha news
Sunday Times,,
http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=15225
..................................
Tiddy Ogg
Oct 12, 2012, 2:10:20 AM10/12/12
to
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 22:21:56 +0100, omega <cr...@last.com> wrote:
>
>
>Turk182 wrote:
>> You won’t find this on Woman’s Hour!
>>
>> I am having an early look at this subject, as the news media will not
>> allow you into the mind’s of abusers, except to say that they are evil
>> - that’s it! The media are only looking for a hate reaction. Such>
>
>
>Turk182 wrote:
>> You won’t find this on Woman’s Hour!
>>
>> I am having an early look at this subject, as the news media will not
>> allow you into the mind’s of abusers, except to say that they are evil
>> - that’s it! The media are only looking for a hate reaction. Such>
>You're hard work at times Turk, but Roman Catholic does ring a bell indeed.
Agreed. That's all the media can do - build 'em up so they can knock
'em down later.
I don't usually bother with Turk's psycho-babble, but he has a point
here.
Big Les Wade
Oct 12, 2012, 5:33:47 AM10/12/12
to
The Todal <deadm...@beeb.net> posted
I doubt if anyone would conclude that straightaway. One would at least
ask "Exactly what do you mean here by 'abuse', and what were the exact
circumstances?" For all we know, "abuse" could mean making her say her
prayers.
--
Les
ask "Exactly what do you mean here by 'abuse', and what were the exact
circumstances?" For all we know, "abuse" could mean making her say her
prayers.
--
Les
The Todal
Oct 12, 2012, 5:48:34 AM10/12/12
to
silly girl! You know nothing! Faith and begorrah, you're an eejit, so
you are".
Chris
Oct 12, 2012, 5:57:18 AM10/12/12
to
On 12/10/2012 10:48, The Todal wrote:
>>
>
> It could have meant just standing nearby and shouting at her "you silly,
> silly girl! You know nothing! Faith and begorrah, you're an eejit, so
> you are".
Now then, now then ...
>>
>
> It could have meant just standing nearby and shouting at her "you silly,
> silly girl! You know nothing! Faith and begorrah, you're an eejit, so
> you are".
Gill Smith
Oct 12, 2012, 7:05:33 AM10/12/12
to
"Turk182" <digital...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:dd86adbe-5943-4835-8c41-
af75c1...@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
aha
classic Freudian analysis
I myself favour Jungianism
nestling in a bed of Reichian orgone theory
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
news:dd86adbe-5943-4835-8c41-
af75c1...@l18g2000vbv.googlegroups.com...
aha
classic Freudian analysis
I myself favour Jungianism
nestling in a bed of Reichian orgone theory
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
omega
Oct 12, 2012, 7:33:22 AM10/12/12
to
Few outside 'the faith' realise how powerful priests were in some
communities four or five decades ago, especially in Ireland but not
strictly that place always. I know men now, then altar boys. who were
abused by Brendan Smyth the then parish priest in Flint, North Wales.
They are still in denial to this day that 'father' abused them, as if
all OK because the priest is the hand of God anyway. One guy I
remember, who was abused, went on later in life to gaol for rape.
Whether his abused past had anything to do with it I will never know
though lots of evidence, abusers become abusers sometimes!
I was never abused but had I gone home and told my mother I had been
touched by father, I'm almost certain my mother would have thrashed the
living daylights out of me. Fervour for the Church was far more than
its importance to God! The Church WAS God!
I'm endlessly puzzled how anyone subscribes to any religion. A clever
template for control, a mental aberration at least and full blown
insanity at worst.
omega
...............................
Peter Turtill
Oct 12, 2012, 7:43:38 AM10/12/12
to
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 23:56:00 +0100, The Todal <deadm...@beeb.net>
wrote:
I believe there was a place in NI known as the Kincora (sp) Childrens
Home?
pete
wrote:
Home?
pete
Guy Barry
Oct 12, 2012, 1:03:23 PM10/12/12
to
I have nothing to add to this thread except to remind everyone of the
correct spelling of Jimmy Savile's name. Remember - it contains "vile".
--
Guy Barry
correct spelling of Jimmy Savile's name. Remember - it contains "vile".
--
Guy Barry
Steerpike
Oct 12, 2012, 1:46:01 PM10/12/12
to
If you read through the posts on here, you will see that the MSM is something that for many people fulfils the exact same function as religion does for others.
MSM propaganda seems to set the parameters of discussion, and anything that falls outside of these is either ignored, or seen to be conspiracy theory of some sort...............
AC
Oct 12, 2012, 5:00:05 PM10/12/12
to
Turk182 wrote:
> You won�t find this on Woman�s Hour!
> - that�s it! The media are only looking for a hate reaction. Such
Problem is, people seem to confuse reasons and explanations with excuses.
Im not going to say you hit the nail on the head, as a lot of what you
are saying seems basically made up to fill gaps, but something like you
describe is pretty par for the course.
--
AC
> You won�t find this on Woman�s Hour!
>
> I am having an early look at this subject, as the news media will not
> allow you into the mind�s of abusers, except to say that they are evil
> I am having an early look at this subject, as the news media will not
> - that�s it! The media are only looking for a hate reaction. Such
> analysis of lives does not generate hatred so it would be rejected.
> Today, the media want to sell Jimmy as a monster - they can't afford
> you to have two or more views. A good man who also did bad things
> does not sell papers - they will only be happy when he is portrayed as
> the anti-Christ.
>
> Meanwhile the queue for compensation gets longer - as all have been
> told by the BBC that they all MUST be believed. No matter how many
> opportunists appear, anyone who challenges their version will be
> castrated by Jane Garvey and her butch minders.
>
> So: Early thoughts.
>
> Jimmy Saville's devout Roman Catholic mother, brought him up alone
> from when he was still a small boy following the death of his father.
> (Saville almost died of pneumonia at the age of five months).
>
> From interviews seen and heard so far, it appears the Jim, being the
> youngest of 7 children, was to be the one who remained bonded to
> mother, even though originally he put himself at about 5th in her list
> of favourites.
>
> The Duchess was described as so naive that, although she had 7 babies,
> she didn't have any idea how she had got pregnant. Jim was constantly
> worried about her and the dangers� that could befall her. That worry
> Today, the media want to sell Jimmy as a monster - they can't afford
> you to have two or more views. A good man who also did bad things
> does not sell papers - they will only be happy when he is portrayed as
> the anti-Christ.
>
> Meanwhile the queue for compensation gets longer - as all have been
> told by the BBC that they all MUST be believed. No matter how many
> opportunists appear, anyone who challenges their version will be
> castrated by Jane Garvey and her butch minders.
>
> So: Early thoughts.
>
> Jimmy Saville's devout Roman Catholic mother, brought him up alone
> from when he was still a small boy following the death of his father.
> (Saville almost died of pneumonia at the age of five months).
>
> From interviews seen and heard so far, it appears the Jim, being the
> youngest of 7 children, was to be the one who remained bonded to
> mother, even though originally he put himself at about 5th in her list
> of favourites.
>
> The Duchess was described as so naive that, although she had 7 babies,
> she didn't have any idea how she had got pregnant. Jim was constantly
> didn't lift from him until she died. He said that nothing could harm
> her now and listed a number of contemporary dangers. Feelings seems to
> have been a no go area between The Duchess and Jim, but he was a
> steadfast soldier and protector. Her covert sexuality could only be
> accessed by accident. In later life he grew to be amused by her
> (there was something psychologically unreal about her). She seems to
> have invented or misread situations. Jimmy grew attached in a way
> that people now regard as unhealthy.
>
> Jim kept a full wardrobe of her clothes following her quick death.
> Saville chose young girls and seems to have had no evident emotional
> language or expression in his relationships with them In not seeking
> women, Saville seems to have selected replica relationships to his
> mum. Naive, unknowing, vulnerable girls - people who were so young
> that they emulated the girlish naivety and frailty of mum. He formed
> no attachment to these people as far as we know - there was only truly
> one woman in Saville's life - the Duchess. Every girl Saville
> 'tested' seems not have come up to her - and really never would. He
> would snatch or grab an overly intimate kiss or touch as if hungry for
> a contact no matter how fleeting or grubby it may appear. This could
> have been an element of how mother related - denying sexuality - but
> spilling over in occasionally inappropriate gestures (not confirmed).
> Whatever she did or didn�t do, it would have been more about
> her now and listed a number of contemporary dangers. Feelings seems to
> have been a no go area between The Duchess and Jim, but he was a
> steadfast soldier and protector. Her covert sexuality could only be
> accessed by accident. In later life he grew to be amused by her
> (there was something psychologically unreal about her). She seems to
> have invented or misread situations. Jimmy grew attached in a way
> that people now regard as unhealthy.
>
> Jim kept a full wardrobe of her clothes following her quick death.
> Saville chose young girls and seems to have had no evident emotional
> language or expression in his relationships with them In not seeking
> women, Saville seems to have selected replica relationships to his
> mum. Naive, unknowing, vulnerable girls - people who were so young
> that they emulated the girlish naivety and frailty of mum. He formed
> no attachment to these people as far as we know - there was only truly
> one woman in Saville's life - the Duchess. Every girl Saville
> 'tested' seems not have come up to her - and really never would. He
> would snatch or grab an overly intimate kiss or touch as if hungry for
> a contact no matter how fleeting or grubby it may appear. This could
> have been an element of how mother related - denying sexuality - but
> spilling over in occasionally inappropriate gestures (not confirmed).
> unconscious needs rather than anything done deliberately. I do not
> apportion blame; I only look for reasons of how these things happen in
> the growth of child�s mind.
> apportion blame; I only look for reasons of how these things happen in
>
> Something was nagginf the Duchess - she seems to have known that the
> police would come knocking at the door one day, and kept reminding Jim
> by saying, "You have been up to something". The Duchess said that she
> thought it may be linked to stealing money, but in reality - perhaps
> her unconscious perception had told her that Jim might be in trouble
> about stealing kisses, stealing sex and living a life which had become
> so distorted due to his need to let mum remain in a premier position
> in his life. Where was the evidence of his sexuality? Catholicism is
> full of disaster stories of children�s arrested sexual development and
> Something was nagginf the Duchess - she seems to have known that the
> police would come knocking at the door one day, and kept reminding Jim
> by saying, "You have been up to something". The Duchess said that she
> thought it may be linked to stealing money, but in reality - perhaps
> her unconscious perception had told her that Jim might be in trouble
> about stealing kisses, stealing sex and living a life which had become
> so distorted due to his need to let mum remain in a premier position
> in his life. Where was the evidence of his sexuality? Catholicism is
> guilt.
>
> Jim seems not have had a male role model. As with his words, Jim made
> up life as he went along. Although he possessed a keen methodical
> mind, he had no access to emotions - a Yorkshireman; a fighter -
> tough, sturdy and emotionally illiterate. Without male influence, he
> grew into a figure that would look very out of place and unwelcome (to
> some but not all!) in a coal mine. He didn't really belong anywhere
> except on a stage or screen - a figure of fun (and now it seems
> misery), who's sheer front, and denial of negatives and disadvantage
> carried him through.
>
> The libido forces sexual expression when objects are put in it's way.
> If this happens during adolescence it can forever shape the direction
> of one's sexuality. Jim�s developing sexuality, amid the supposed
>
> Jim seems not have had a male role model. As with his words, Jim made
> up life as he went along. Although he possessed a keen methodical
> mind, he had no access to emotions - a Yorkshireman; a fighter -
> tough, sturdy and emotionally illiterate. Without male influence, he
> grew into a figure that would look very out of place and unwelcome (to
> some but not all!) in a coal mine. He didn't really belong anywhere
> except on a stage or screen - a figure of fun (and now it seems
> misery), who's sheer front, and denial of negatives and disadvantage
> carried him through.
>
> The libido forces sexual expression when objects are put in it's way.
> If this happens during adolescence it can forever shape the direction
> guilt and judgement of parental Catholicism, seems to have gone
> hurtling off course. As much as people may now hate him - be thankful
> it didn�t happen to you. It is only by living a person�s precise life
> hurtling off course. As much as people may now hate him - be thankful
> (something you can never do) that you find out if you are better or
> worse than them.
>
> Jim blamed The Yorkshire Ripper�s wife for the way Sutcliffe behaved.
> worse than them.
>
> Jim may also have been aware at some level, that the explanation for
> his own sexuality being heavily off course (and I explanation but
> never the blame), may lay in the (often absent) arms of the mum that
> simply would not, or could not let him go - I suggest she emitted a
> neediness, and he was hooked.
>
> This is only an early theory, but there is much more to research. I
> hope you find parts useful, but please don�t blame me for doing what
> his own sexuality being heavily off course (and I explanation but
> never the blame), may lay in the (often absent) arms of the mum that
> simply would not, or could not let him go - I suggest she emitted a
> neediness, and he was hooked.
>
> This is only an early theory, but there is much more to research. I
> the media will almost entirely svoid doing. They do not not want you
> to know this sort of information. The 'Woman�s Hour' feminists would
> NEVER associate mother with a damaged child. Mums only make well-
> adjusted babies and adults - OK! If anyone screwd up the kids, it
> must have been dad! (Only this one was very dead).
>
> Turk182
>
And you could write up one of those for every aberration who surfaces.
> adjusted babies and adults - OK! If anyone screwd up the kids, it
> must have been dad! (Only this one was very dead).
>
> Turk182
>
Problem is, people seem to confuse reasons and explanations with excuses.
Im not going to say you hit the nail on the head, as a lot of what you
are saying seems basically made up to fill gaps, but something like you
describe is pretty par for the course.
--
AC
Gill Smith
Oct 14, 2012, 4:18:14 AM10/14/12
to
"Guy Barry" <guy....@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote in message
news:s3Yds.257875$KB5.1...@fx24.am4...
and notice that "therapist" spells "the rapist"
what do you think of my new tune?
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/Daddy_Was_A_Liberal/index.html
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
news:s3Yds.257875$KB5.1...@fx24.am4...
>I have nothing to add to this thread except to remind everyone of the
>correct spelling of Jimmy Savile's name. Remember - it contains "vile".
excellent point!
>correct spelling of Jimmy Savile's name. Remember - it contains "vile".
and notice that "therapist" spells "the rapist"
what do you think of my new tune?
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/Daddy_Was_A_Liberal/index.html
--
http://www.gillsmith999.plus.com/
Vince
Oct 16, 2012, 3:47:28 AM10/16/12
to
> "Guy Barry" wrote
> I have nothing to add to this thread except to remind everyone of the
> correct spelling of Jimmy Savile's name. Remember - it contains "vile".
Yours contains 'Gay Bar' - more or less.
> I have nothing to add to this thread except to remind everyone of the
> correct spelling of Jimmy Savile's name. Remember - it contains "vile".
Cynic
Oct 17, 2012, 1:31:15 PM10/17/12
to
On Thu, 11 Oct 2012 23:56:00 +0100, The Todal <deadm...@beeb.net>
But I also see no reason to accept them as being definitely true
either.
A civil court would decide whether to accept or reject any claim by
weighing the probability that it was true against the probability that
it was not true. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof,
and without any supporting evidence it is highly unlikely that a judge
would accept this claim as being fact on BoP - especially as the only
evidence presented is hearsay evidence from a party who was not a
witness to the event, and so cannot be asked questions regarding the
alleged incidents, or even assessed for credibility based on the
demeanour of the witness.
That particular claim is additionally quite unusual of itself, because
it involves the passive participation of both parents in the sexual
abuse of the daughter, which is, AFAIAA, exceedingly rare except when
one of the parents are abusers themselves or cases of one parent
having an abusive partner - which has not been claimed. Abusers will
usually ensure that the parents do *not* know of the abuse, and I am
left wondering how the priest knew that in that case it was safe for
the parents to know.
False claims of childhood sexual abuse are OTOH far more common, being
used to gain sympathy or to excuse bad or unusual behaviour.
So on the grounds purely of statistical probability, the claim as has
been reported is more likely to be false than it is to be true. Not,
as you will know from other posts of mine, do I agree that judgements
can be made purely on the basis of general statistical probability,
though without further information that is all we have to guide us in
this case.
--
Cynic
Cynic
Oct 17, 2012, 1:35:38 PM10/17/12
to
On Fri, 12 Oct 2012 12:33:22 +0100, omega <cr...@last.com> wrote:
>Few outside 'the faith' realise how powerful priests were in some
>communities four or five decades ago, especially in Ireland but not
>strictly that place always. I know men now, then altar boys. who were
>abused by Brendan Smyth the then parish priest in Flint, North Wales.
>They are still in denial to this day that 'father' abused them, as if
>all OK because the priest is the hand of God anyway.
When you say that they are "in denial", what do you mean, exactly? Do
>Few outside 'the faith' realise how powerful priests were in some
>communities four or five decades ago, especially in Ireland but not
>strictly that place always. I know men now, then altar boys. who were
>abused by Brendan Smyth the then parish priest in Flint, North Wales.
>They are still in denial to this day that 'father' abused them, as if
>all OK because the priest is the hand of God anyway.
you mean that they deny having been abused when in fact they were
abused? If so, how is it known for certain that they *were* abused,
and why is it that so may people will readily believe someone who
claims to have been abused, whilst anyone who you think may have been
abused but who says they were not abused is "in denial"?
--
Cynic
lock.s...@gmail.com
Nov 10, 2012, 3:04:40 PM11/10/12
to
If you want to look at this from a psychological point, I suggest you start with basic attachment theory - Bowlby, Ainsworth etc. Savile suffered early ilness and spent some time away from the primary caregiver. He talks about not being the favourite, not having affection. Savile did have a father in the early years... but choses to say nothing about him - one wonders why. His relationship with his mother was perhaps one of power and control - one often misunderstood when seen in relationships of domestic abuse. Are we to beleive that this Mother of seven didnt know how babies are made? Or was he denying her as a sexual female. Paedophillia is about power and control, not being allured by innocence. Looking at Saviles early history of attachments the man was a psychopath. Not a monster, not evil, but a clinical psychopath. This is as you say sad, but dont mistake the man.
Turk182
Nov 10, 2012, 3:41:16 PM11/10/12
to
On 10 Nov, 20:04, lock.susa...@gmail.com wrote:
> If you want to look at this from a psychological point, I suggest you start with basic attachment theory - Bowlby, Ainsworth etc. Savile suffered early ilness and spent some time away from the primary caregiver. He talks about not being the favourite, not having affection. Savile did have a father in the early years... but choses to say nothing about him - one wonders why. His relationship with his mother was perhaps one of power and control - one often misunderstood when seen in relationships of domestic abuse. Are we to beleive that this Mother of seven didnt know how babies are made? Or was he denying her as a sexual female. Paedophillia is about power and control, not being allured by innocence. Looking at Saviles early history of attachments the man was a psychopath. Not a monster, not evil, but a clinical psychopath. This is as you say sad, but dont mistake the man.
I am not convinced by your assumptions, as you appear to almost turn
> If you want to look at this from a psychological point, I suggest you start with basic attachment theory - Bowlby, Ainsworth etc. Savile suffered early ilness and spent some time away from the primary caregiver. He talks about not being the favourite, not having affection. Savile did have a father in the early years... but choses to say nothing about him - one wonders why. His relationship with his mother was perhaps one of power and control - one often misunderstood when seen in relationships of domestic abuse. Are we to beleive that this Mother of seven didnt know how babies are made? Or was he denying her as a sexual female. Paedophillia is about power and control, not being allured by innocence. Looking at Saviles early history of attachments the man was a psychopath. Not a monster, not evil, but a clinical psychopath. This is as you say sad, but dont mistake the man.
attachment theory on it's head, as if the parents were somehow the
'victims' of the child. Whilst Klein would perhaps have arrived at a
simlar speculative cause, her fear- many would say, was to see
herself mirrored back from the child - not recognising her own
'madenss' and how it was damaging her offspring.
I'm reasonably satisified at this stage, that the duchees was
'touched' in some way, by a lack of reality, I shall not put it any
stronger, and the significance of the absent father is huge - while
the number of children created a huge shortage in the care that can be
distributed. Savile's clinging too his mother's robes as an old man,
suggests that he kept her on a pedestal upon which there was only room
for one. I'm really keen to find out more and will be really happy to
compare this with anything you discover.
Turk182
Jacob Von Hogflume
Nov 10, 2012, 4:01:21 PM11/10/12
to
On 10/11/2012 20:04, lock.s...@gmail.com wrote:
> If you want to look at this from a psychological point, I suggest you start with basic attachment theory - Bowlby, Ainsworth etc. Savile suffered early ilness and spent some time away from the primary caregiver. He talks about not being the favourite, not having affection. Savile did have a father in the early years... but choses to say nothing about him - one wonders why. His relationship with his mother was perhaps one of power and control - one often misunderstood when seen in relationships of domestic abuse. Are we to beleive that this Mother of seven didnt know how babies are made? Or was he denying her as a sexual female. Paedophillia is about power and control, not being allured by innocence. Looking at Saviles early history of attachments the man was a psychopath. Not a monster, not evil, but a clinical psychopath. This is as you say sad, but dont mistake the man.
>
In other words Savile psychological makeup was probably the same as any
> If you want to look at this from a psychological point, I suggest you start with basic attachment theory - Bowlby, Ainsworth etc. Savile suffered early ilness and spent some time away from the primary caregiver. He talks about not being the favourite, not having affection. Savile did have a father in the early years... but choses to say nothing about him - one wonders why. His relationship with his mother was perhaps one of power and control - one often misunderstood when seen in relationships of domestic abuse. Are we to beleive that this Mother of seven didnt know how babies are made? Or was he denying her as a sexual female. Paedophillia is about power and control, not being allured by innocence. Looking at Saviles early history of attachments the man was a psychopath. Not a monster, not evil, but a clinical psychopath. This is as you say sad, but dont mistake the man.
>
other person.
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