Police arrest 78 at New Year celebrations and traffic will be badly delayed by today's parade.
Doug
public demonstration for a change while the similarly authorised New
Year's Day parade is likely to cause a great deal more traffic
disruption than a Critical Mass of cyclists once a month. I wonder if
it will be corked by police approved stewards?
Of course, the difference with Critical Mass is that although it is
approved in law as a customarily held procession it is not approved by
police, who lost their case against it. Consequently, the police do
not help with the CM procession as they do with other processions and
this can contribute to conflict with drivers.
BTW the December CM ride happened to coincide with Christmas Day this
year and despite a complete lack of trains 30 riders turned up.
More:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8436065.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8400331.stm
--
Critical Mass London
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"
Norman Wells
> It is interesting to see police targeting an authorised, non-political
> public demonstration for a change while the similarly authorised New
> Year's Day parade is likely to cause a great deal more traffic
> disruption than a Critical Mass of cyclists once a month. I wonder if
> it will be corked by police approved stewards?
>
> Of course, the difference with Critical Mass is that although it is
> approved in law as a customarily held procession it is not approved by
> police, who lost their case against it. Consequently, the police do
> not help with the CM procession as they do with other processions and
> this can contribute to conflict with drivers.
>
> BTW the December CM ride happened to coincide with Christmas Day this
> year and despite a complete lack of trains 30 riders turned up.
How can that be called a Mass then?
Anyway, what are you doing associating with a Mass? I thought you disowned
anything so obviously religious.
Ret.
> It is interesting to see police targeting an authorised, non-political
> public demonstration for a change while the similarly authorised New
> Year's Day parade is likely to cause a great deal more traffic
> disruption than a Critical Mass of cyclists once a month. I wonder if
> it will be corked by police approved stewards?
You really do come up with some twaddle don't you Doug? The police always
attend mass gatherings because, inevitably, there will be crime committed
there. Note the comment in your linked article:
"Those arrested were held for various offences including being drunk and
disorderly, assault, public order offences, possession of drugs and sexual
offences."
Are you suggesting that the police should *not* target law breaking?
Kev
Happi Monday
>
> How can that be called a Mass then?
>
> Anyway, what are you doing associating with a Mass? I thought you
> disowned anything so obviously religious.
Living up to your PotW award, I see.
webreader
> "Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"
Why would the police not be there to arrest those who brokhe law?
The new years parade is in no way similar to CM, nor is it similarly
authorised, but you know that don't you?
So now it's the police's fault that CM causes problems.
Only 30 turned up at CM, what should we call it, perhaps unimportant
few,
Perhaps the usual ones were not let out by their keepers, poor souls,
no trains, perhaps they should have used their bikes.
WSR
Norman Wells
At least I don't have to go back to school next week.
Ian
"Doug" <jag...@riseup.net> wrote in message
news:487d737f-41a0-46c0...@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com...
> It is interesting to see police targeting an authorised,
> non-political
> public demonstration for a change while the similarly authorised New
> Year's Day parade is likely to cause a great deal more traffic
> disruption than a Critical Mass of cyclists once a month. I wonder
> if
> it will be corked by police approved stewards?
>
> Of course, the difference with Critical Mass is that although it is
> approved in law as a customarily held procession it is not approved
> by
> police, who lost their case against it. Consequently, the police do
> not help with the CM procession as they do with other processions
> and
> this can contribute to conflict with drivers.
>
> BTW the December CM ride happened to coincide with Christmas Day
> this
> year and despite a complete lack of trains 30 riders turned up.
>
®i©ardo
> It is interesting to see police targeting an authorised, non-political
> public demonstration for a change while the similarly authorised New
> Year's Day parade is likely to cause a great deal more traffic
> disruption than a Critical Mass of cyclists once a month. I wonder if
> it will be corked by police approved stewards?
>
> Of course, the difference with Critical Mass is that although it is
> approved in law as a customarily held procession it is not approved by
> police, who lost their case against it. Consequently, the police do
> not help with the CM procession as they do with other processions and
> this can contribute to conflict with drivers.
>
> BTW the December CM ride happened to coincide with Christmas Day this
> year and despite a complete lack of trains 30 riders turned up.
>
That last paragraph/sentence really sums it all up, doesn't it:
"...despite a complete lack of trains 30 riders turned up."
So most of these law-breaking dick-heads will only turn up to one of
their childish demonstrations if the the trains are running? What's
wrong with using their bikes? Presumably they find it's not worth the
effort if there aren't any other road users to harass and intimidate?
> More:
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8436065.stm
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8400331.stm
>
> --
> Critical Mass London
> http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
> "Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"
--
Moving things in still pictures
d...@telent.net
> That last paragraph/sentence really sums it all up, doesn't it:
> "...despite a complete lack of trains 30 riders turned up."
>
> So most of these law-breaking dick-heads will only turn up to one of
> their childish demonstrations if the the trains are running? What's
> wrong with using their bikes? Presumably they find it's not worth the
> effort if there aren't any other road users to harass and intimidate?
Or perhaps more reasonably, as this *is* after all the season of charity
and goodwill to all, most are cycle commuters who will only turn up to
CM if it can be incorporated into a journey they would be making anyway,
and like most of the rest of us they don't work Christmas Day.
It wouldn't surprise me to learn that there exists a number of
already-lost-the-plot troublemakers come in by train expressly for the
purpose of cycling around London at walking pace, but I can't help
hoping they're the minority
-dan
®i©ardo
Hmm, a seasonably charitable view!
--
Moving things in still pictures
FastStone - Infinitely Flexible Photographic Fixing - For Free!
Judith Smith
wrote:
<snip>
>BTW the December CM ride happened to coincide with Christmas Day this
>year and despite a complete lack of trains 30 riders turned up.
AH diddums - let's blame the nasty trains for not running. -we
couldn't have "cycled" there could we?
That sort of sums up its worth. "Critical Mass" my arse.
Thirty sad bastards with no life would be more appropriate.
Did you attend?
Doug
> On Jan 1, 7:14 am, Doug <jag...@riseup.net> wrote:
>
>
>
> > It is interesting to see police targeting an authorised, non-political
> > public demonstration for a change while the similarly authorised New
> > Year's Day parade is likely to cause a great deal more traffic
> > disruption than a Critical Mass of cyclists once a month. I wonder if
> > it will be corked by police approved stewards?
>
> > Of course, the difference with Critical Mass is that although it is
> > approved in law as a customarily held procession it is not approved by
> > police, who lost their case against it. Consequently, the police do
> > not help with the CM procession as they do with other processions and
> > this can contribute to conflict with drivers.
>
> > BTW the December CM ride happened to coincide with Christmas Day this
> > year and despite a complete lack of trains 30 riders turned up.
>
>
>
> Why would the police not be there to arrest those who brokhe law?
>
equally but they don't. They have in the past particularly cracked
down on unauthorised political protests even though such protests
embody human rights.
>
> The new years parade is in no way similar to CM, nor is it similarly
> authorised, but you know that don't you?
>
law it is not treated as such either by motorists or the police.
>
> So now it's the police's fault that CM causes problems.
>
ramming them when the police are absent.
>
> Only 30 turned up at CM, what should we call it, perhaps unimportant
> few,
> Perhaps the usual ones were not let out by their keepers, poor souls,
> no trains, perhaps they should have used their bikes.
>
which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last month.
--
Critical Mass London
Norman Wells
> And there is the problem. Although London CM is now a procession in
> law it is not treated as such either by motorists or the police.
Then perhaps it isn't.
>> So now it's the police's fault that CM causes problems.
>>
> No its the motorists' fault for not respecting corkers and instead
> ramming them when the police are absent.
Let me explain for those that don't understand the arcane language of the
unwashed and unemployable. A 'corker' in this context is a cyclist who
deliberately blocks a side road so that traffic cannot pass, his purpose
being to allow his comrades to progress at a snail's pace across the
junction, generally against red lights.
He is causing a selfish obstruction to legitimate traffic which, unlike
himself, has somewhere to go and something worthwhile to do. And yet Doug
expects motorists to respect them. It's a wonder to me that not all of them
are rammed whether the police are there or not.
>>
>> Only 30 turned up at CM, what should we call it, perhaps unimportant
>> few,
>> Perhaps the usual ones were not let out by their keepers, poor souls,
>> no trains, perhaps they should have used their bikes.
>>
> Some use trains to get there because they live/work some distance away
> which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
> to arrive in time for the start.
They could get up earlier. Or don't their convictions extend quite that
far?
Tony Dragon
Well, by anybody's reasonable sense CM is not a procession.
But they could help by doing what all other processions do.
>> So now it's the police's fault that CM causes problems.
>>
> No its the motorists' fault for not respecting corkers
They do no deserve respect if they give no respect.
> and instead
> ramming them when the police are absent.
We have all seen your evidence (or not) of ramming.
>> Only 30 turned up at CM, what should we call it, perhaps unimportant
>> few,
>> Perhaps the usual ones were not let out by their keepers, poor souls,
>> no trains, perhaps they should have used their bikes.
>>
> Some use trains to get there because they live/work some distance away
> which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
> to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last month.
>
> --
> Critical Mass London
> http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
> "Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"
>
>
>
So not real cyclists then?
--
Tony Dragon
®i©ardo
????Work???!
If they worked they wouldn't be spending their miserable lives trying to
make others as miserable as they are! They're just a bunch of idle
anti-social bastards who, if they had ANY idea about the concept of
"work" they would refrain from harassing those that actually do some.
Don't they realise that their dole money is at risk if they stop enough
honest taxpayers getting to work?
Thank heavens that their own stupidity caused them to select a day when
the only victims were themselves - nobody else around to upset and the
vast majority of them couldn't even be arsed to attend because they were
too bloody lazy to get on their bikes.
What a bunch of pansies.
some distance away
> which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
> to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last month.
>
> --
> Critical Mass London
> http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
> "Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"
>
>
>
Mrcheerful
about critical mass.
I will have to keep an eye out for the next one and polish the bull bars on
the pick up in readiness.
Doug
They do that already.
>
> >> So now it's the police's fault that CM causes problems.
>
> > No its the motorists' fault for not respecting corkers
>
> They do no deserve respect if they give no respect.
>
>
> > and instead
> > ramming them when the police are absent.
>
> We have all seen your evidence (or not) of ramming.
>
is commonplace, as a simple internet search will show even the
simple.
>
>
> >> Only 30 turned up at CM, what should we call it, perhaps unimportant
> >> few,
> >> Perhaps the usual ones were not let out by their keepers, poor souls,
> >> no trains, perhaps they should have used their bikes.
>
> > Some use trains to get there because they live/work some distance away
> > which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
> > to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last month.
>
>
>
are not letting on.
Tony Dragon
No by following the rules & acting in a reasonable manner.
>>>> So now it's the police's fault that CM causes problems.
>>> No its the motorists' fault for not respecting corkers
>> They do no deserve respect if they give no respect.
>>
> Chicken and egg. Cyclists are treated with contempt by drivers.
Probably because some cyclists treat motorists with contempt.
>>> and instead
>>> ramming them when the police are absent.
>> We have all seen your evidence (or not) of ramming.
>>
> Apart from my evidence there is little doubt that ramming of cyclists
> is commonplace, as a simple internet search will show even the
> simple.
Yes we all know that you have been 'rammed' & have seen ramming all the
time. I wonder why?
>>
>>>> Only 30 turned up at CM, what should we call it, perhaps unimportant
>>>> few,
>>>> Perhaps the usual ones were not let out by their keepers, poor souls,
>>>> no trains, perhaps they should have used their bikes.
>>> Some use trains to get there because they live/work some distance away
>>> which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
>>> to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last month.
>>
>> So not real cyclists then?
>>
> It depends. Probably some are. Some might even be real motorists but
> are not letting on.
>
> --
> Critical Mass London
> http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
> "Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"
>
>
--
Tony Dragon
Doug
hold up traffic and go through red lights.
>
> >>>> So now it's the police's fault that CM causes problems.
> >>> No its the motorists' fault for not respecting corkers
> >> They do no deserve respect if they give no respect.
>
> > Chicken and egg. Cyclists are treated with contempt by drivers.
>
> Probably because some cyclists treat motorists with contempt.
>
put cyclists' lives in danger?
>
> >>> and instead
> >>> ramming them when the police are absent.
> >> We have all seen your evidence (or not) of ramming.
>
> > Apart from my evidence there is little doubt that ramming of cyclists
> > is commonplace, as a simple internet search will show even the
> > simple.
>
> Yes we all know that you have been 'rammed' & have seen ramming all the
> time. I wonder why?
>
it.
Tony Dragon
Cite law.
>>>>>> So now it's the police's fault that CM causes problems.
>>>>> No its the motorists' fault for not respecting corkers
>>>> They do no deserve respect if they give no respect.
>>> Chicken and egg. Cyclists are treated with contempt by drivers.
>> Probably because some cyclists treat motorists with contempt.
>>
> Even if it were true, is that any reason for motorists to deliberately
> put cyclists' lives in danger?
For a start, it is true.
Correct road users should not put other road users in danger.
Road users should also act in a legal & considerate manner.
>>>>> and instead
>>>>> ramming them when the police are absent.
>>>> We have all seen your evidence (or not) of ramming.
>>> Apart from my evidence there is little doubt that ramming of cyclists
>>> is commonplace, as a simple internet search will show even the
>>> simple.
>> Yes we all know that you have been 'rammed' & have seen ramming all the
>> time. I wonder why?
>>
> Because I happened to get in the way of drivers and they didn't like
> it.
But why is it always you?
>>
>>
>>
>>>>>> Only 30 turned up at CM, what should we call it, perhaps unimportant
>>>>>> few,
>>>>>> Perhaps the usual ones were not let out by their keepers, poor souls,
>>>>>> no trains, perhaps they should have used their bikes.
>>>>> Some use trains to get there because they live/work some distance away
>>>>> which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
>>>>> to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last month.
>>>> So not real cyclists then?
>>> It depends. Probably some are. Some might even be real motorists but
>>> are not letting on.
>>> --
>>> Critical Mass London
>>> http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
>>> "Get out of my way you f*ing cyclist"
>
>
When are you going to get it into your head that a cyclist can be a
motorist & vice versa?
--
Tony Dragon
bugbear
>>
> Some use trains to get there because they live/work some distance away
> which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
> to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last month.
Not cyclists.
BugBear
Doug
fit. You leave work at Five and must get to CM by 18.30. That's an
average speed of 20mph. Max speed 30mph? Then when you get there the
ride is, say, 10 miles, followed by your 30 mile ride home. Total
70miles after a typical working day.
--
Critical Mass London
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Whose roads? Our roads!"
Norman Wells
> On 4 Jan, 09:26, bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>
>>> Some use trains to get there because they live/work some distance
>>> away which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not
>>> be able to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last
>>> month.
>>
>> Not cyclists.
>>
> Suppose you live 30 miles from Central London and are not particularly
> fit. You leave work at Five and must get to CM by 18.30. That's an
> average speed of 20mph. Max speed 30mph? Then when you get there the
> ride is, say, 10 miles, followed by your 30 mile ride home. Total
> 70miles after a typical working day.
After a what day, Doug?
d...@telent.net
> Suppose you live 30 miles from Central London and are not particularly
> fit. You leave work at Five and must get to CM by 18.30. That's an
> average speed of 20mph. Max speed 30mph? Then when you get there the
> ride is, say, 10 miles, followed by your 30 mile ride home. Total
> 70miles after a typical working day.
If CM is an unorganised coincidence that merely happens to take place
when a bunch of cyclists decide to take the same route home from work,
its relevance to anyone living and working 30 miles away is tenuous at
best.
Is it in fact more of an organised event than you are letting on?
-dan
JNugent
> On 4 Jan, 09:26, bugbear <bugbear@trim_papermule.co.uk_trim> wrote:
>> Doug wrote:
>>
>>> Some use trains to get there because they live/work some distance away
>>> which would make for a very long ride indeed or they would not be able
>>> to arrive in time for the start. Hence the low turnout last month.
>> Not cyclists.
>>
> Suppose you live 30 miles from Central London and are not particularly
> fit. You leave work at Five and must get to CM by 18.30. That's an
> average speed of 20mph. Max speed 30mph? Then when you get there the
> ride is, say, 10 miles, followed by your 30 mile ride home. Total
> 70miles after a typical working day.
...and?
Doug
instead they happen to meet at the same place one a month and go for
an unplanned ride for which there are no organisers. How they get
there varies individually. Obviously, without trains some will be
excluded due to distance.
--
Critical Mass London
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"We aren't blocking traffic, we are traffic".
Norman Wells
> On 5 Jan, 10:58, d...@telent.net wrote:
>> Doug <jag...@riseup.net> writes:
>>> Suppose you live 30 miles from Central London and are not
>>> particularly fit. You leave work at Five and must get to CM by
>>> 18.30. That's an average speed of 20mph. Max speed 30mph? Then when
>>> you get there the ride is, say, 10 miles, followed by your 30 mile
>>> ride home. Total 70miles after a typical working day.
>>
>> If CM is an unorganised coincidence that merely happens to take place
>> when a bunch of cyclists decide to take the same route home from
>> work, its relevance to anyone living and working 30 miles away is
>> tenuous at best.
>>
>> Is it in fact more of an organised event than you are letting on?
>>
> You misunderstand. They don't take the same route home from work,
> instead they happen
How?
> to meet at the same place
How?
> one a month and go for an unplanned
How does that work then?
> ride for which there are no organisers.
Who organises it then?
d...@telent.net
> On 5 Jan, 10:58, d...@telent.net wrote:
>> Doug <jag...@riseup.net> writes:
>> > Suppose you live 30 miles from Central London and are not particularly
>> > fit. You leave work at Five and must get to CM by 18.30. That's an
>> > average speed of 20mph. Max speed 30mph? Then when you get there the
>> > ride is, say, 10 miles, followed by your 30 mile ride home. Total
>> > 70miles after a typical working day.
>>
>> If CM is an unorganised coincidence that merely happens to take place
>> when a bunch of cyclists decide to take the same route home from work,
>> its relevance to anyone living and working 30 miles away is tenuous at
>> best.
>>
>> Is it in fact more of an organised event than you are letting on?
>>
> You misunderstand. They don't take the same route home from work,
> instead they happen to meet at the same place one a month and go for
> an unplanned ride for which there are no organisers.
But how can you desctibe it as unplanned if they know in advance (and
from 30 miles away) that it will start at 18:30 and go for 10 miles?
-dan
Tony Dragon
Two sorts of planing?
--
Tony Dragon
Doug
and they don't know where. Also, riders turn up any time from about
5.30pm to after 7pm. The ride might start of its own accord at around
7pm, who can say? If you call that 'planned' or 'organsied' then maybe
your life needs seeing to.
--
Critical Mass London
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"Whose roads? Our roads!"
Norman Wells
Of course it's planned. People cycling randomly don't just coalesce into a
group at a particular time.
Doug
There are no organisers so who are there to plan?
--
Critical Mass London
http://www.criticalmasslondon.org.uk
"More bikes, fewer cars!".
JNugent
Jack and smooth (Gawd, that was dredging the memory for details of woodwork
lessons all those decades ago)?