Legality of carrying a disassembled weapon in the UK
November 5
firearm legally.
AFAIK UK weapons-related laws define offensive weapons in their
capacity to harm others, and not the potential to be assembled into a
device capable of harming others.
Therefore, is it legal to carry a disassembled weapon in the UK (e.g.
pepper spray divorced from the nozzle, knife separated from the hilt,
disassembled gun + ammo) on the same person or on 2+ different people?
To what extent must the weapon be disassembled to not run afoul of the
legal definitions of an offensive weapon or unlicensed firearm?
Obviously there will be a time when you run afoul of the offensive
weapons laws if you reassemble it in short order and use it on the
street in self-defence. How will a British court view a man who
reassembles a dismantled weapon on the street and uses it in self-
defence or to recover stolen property? What if the thief/mugger died
and the man swears blind that the weapon belonged to the crim (this
was the advice given to me by a police officer friend)?
Something to remember; a good man who died because gun grabbers
disarmed him of a gun with which he could have slain two robbers.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/8565737.stm
N5
tedium
wrote:
A weird sort of question..............I guess you are not aware of the
fact that here in the UK a concealed table leg is seen as being an
offensive weapon, to the extent that the person carrying it is likely
to be shot by police without any sort of prior warning!
November 5
I am a British expat, so I am well familiar with the story of Harry
Stanley. Indeed that case and the JCdM whitewash were among the
factors which made me decide to pack up and leave the Communist police
state the UK is rapidly devolving to. The Ian Tomlinson story came out
soon afterwards.
With all due respect, you demonstrate the mentality of a subservient
subject. The police, government and crims (spoken in the same breath)
should fear well armed citizens. Votes mean nothing; political power
comes out of the barrel of a gun.
N5
Mrcheerful
carrying anything with the intent to use it to harm another is the basic
definition of carrying an offensive weapon (illegal in the UK)
Dirk Bruere at NeoPax
If it can be "reassembled" sufficiently rapidly to be used in a
non-planned street fight or mugging it will definitely be considered an
offensive weapon carried for that purpose.
--
Dirk
http://www.transcendence.me.uk/ - Transcendence UK
http://www.blogtalkradio.com/onetribe - Occult Talk Show
Ste
> Where I am permanently resident, I can buy and carry a concealed
> firearm legally.
>
> AFAIK UK weapons-related laws define offensive weapons in their
> capacity to harm others, and not the potential to be assembled into a
> device capable of harming others.
>
> Therefore, is it legal to carry a disassembled weapon in the UK (e.g.
> pepper spray divorced from the nozzle, knife separated from the hilt,
> disassembled gun + ammo) on the same person or on 2+ different people?
>
> To what extent must the weapon be disassembled to not run afoul of the
> legal definitions of an offensive weapon or unlicensed firearm?
It would have to be disassembled to the point that the parts were
useless as a weapon in their own right, and also to the point that it
could not be reassembled within such a short period of time that it
would be effective as an offensive weapon if the circumstances arose
where you might want to use it as such.
In practice, you would also have to show that you had a credible non-
offensive reason for carrying around a bag of weapon parts with you.
> Obviously there will be a time when you run afoul of the offensive
> weapons laws if you reassemble it in short order and use it on the
> street in self-defence. How will a British court view a man who
> reassembles a dismantled weapon on the street and uses it in self-
> defence or to recover stolen property? What if the thief/mugger died
> and the man swears blind that the weapon belonged to the crim (this
> was the advice given to me by a police officer friend)?
Then you'd best hope the jury believe you, and the forensics are lost
in the post!
tedium
Force can easily be met by even greater force, and the use of force is
something that the establishment is extremely familiar with! Political
power is held in large part due to the almost complete apathy of the
sheeple that suffer as a result of the exercise of that power.
To suggest that force of arms is likely to be needed to enforce the
requirements of privileged elite groups, seems to indicate that there
is some sort of cohesive resistance to the increasing criminality and
corruption of those in control. This is clearly not the case, unless
you feel that various demonstrations organised by SIF groups post any
sort of threat to the established order?
UK sheeple are perhaps the most apathetic in the whole world, and seem
far more interested in a sad nutter who has killed one child, than the
former premier whose actions led directly to the deaths of 500,000,
even though the said sheeple are paying for an inquiry to ensure this
monster will be able to wriggle off the hook.............
R. Mark Clayton
"November 5" <november...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:27d43411-3082-4e89...@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> Where I am permanently resident, I can buy and carry a concealed
> firearm legally.
>
> AFAIK UK weapons-related laws define offensive weapons in their
> capacity to harm others, and not the potential to be assembled into a
> device capable of harming others.
>
> Therefore, is it legal to carry a disassembled weapon in the UK (e.g.
> pepper spray divorced from the nozzle, knife separated from the hilt,
> disassembled gun + ammo) on the same person or on 2+ different people?
>
One can carry knives or pick axe handles in ones tool box or car if one was
a workman or a baseball player. OTOH carry them in case you needed them
[even to defend oneself] in a fight would be possession of an offensive
weapon.
Similarly carrying the components of a weapon would be illegal.
Also where is relevant - my cutlery drawer has a selection of knives from
2-10" and a cleaver - fine where they are, but almost certain to lead to
arrest if I tried to take them into a football match.
Ophelia
"Dirk Bruere at NeoPax" <dirk....@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:804i51...@mid.individual.net...
The law is complex. For example any item used OFFensively against another
person, even if not designed to be so used and if the person otherwise had
good reason to be carrying it e.g. a pen, a roll of coins, a walking stick,
can be classed as an offensive weapon. Possession of such an item, or
something picked up in the street e.g. a brick or piece of scaffolding, use
DEfensively is unlikely to be cited in any charges that might be brought.
There are special rules relating to knives. Except in special areas e.g.
onboard an aircraft, you are legally allowed to be in possession of a bladed
or sharply pointed instrument, the cutting edge or penetrating length of
which does not exceed 3" and the blade of which is not fixed or capable of
being locked open. It doesn't matter whether the blade has a handle or not.
So a standard Swiss army knife is OK in most places but those designed like
a credit card, with a tiny fixed blade no longer than the one in a folding
SAK designed to go on your key ring, is not, and nor are most 'multi-tools'
with pliers and blades because the blades lock open when you fold the pliers
into the handle. You can, however, have any such instrument in a public
place if you have 'lawful or reasonable excuse.' So a multi-tool is still OK
if you are an electrician while working, but leave it in the van when you go
into a cafe where you aren't working. A fixed blade sheath knife is fine
while you are fishing or camping, or in your bag on your way home
afterwards, but don't go into town still carrying it while you buy supplies
because then you will be guilty of an offence.
With other items such as a firearm, it would not matter how far you
disassembled it. If you did not have good reason to have it with you then
you would be breaking the law. If 2 people each had parts of the same gun
both could be prosecuted. However, if a weapon was comprised of 2 everyday
chemicals, and 2 individuals were each in possession of one of those, the
prosecution would need to show that they knew of the potential of mixing
those chemicals and intended or had colluded to do so. 1 person carrying
both had better have a damn good reason to be doing so!
DVH
"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
news:804r9a...@mid.individual.net...
Excellent and informative post. Thanks!
(I'm pondering how you know so much about lethal weaponry...).
Ophelia
"DVH" <d...@vhvhvhvh.com> wrote in message
news:PWann.372986$7Q1.2...@newsfe14.ams2...
Thank you, but must I divulge all?
DVH
>>
>> (I'm pondering how you know so much about lethal weaponry...).
>
> Thank you, but must I divulge all?
Certainly not.
I'll just remember not to cross you.
Ophelia
"DVH" <d...@vhvhvhvh.com> wrote in message
news:PWann.372986$7Q1.2...@newsfe14.ams2...
>
Thank you, but must I divulge all?
November 5
Intent is difficult to prove unless the man carrying the disassembled
weapon talks.
So it is more likely that the police and courts would look for items
with the capacity to harm rather than intent.
N5
Ophelia
Mrcheerful
I would not think much of your chances if stopped carrying a disassembled
weapon in a public place. Try getting on a plane with it and see whether
intent has to be proved. If you feel the need to walk round with a weapon
then either don't go out, or move to a more salubrious area.
Mentalguy2k8
"November 5" <november...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
news:27d43411-3082-4e89...@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
> firearm legally.
So get one then and stop worrying about the situation in everyone else's
country.
November 5
Ste wrote:
> On 14 Mar, 15:24, November 5 <november.fifth...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > Where I am permanently resident, I can buy and carry a concealed
> > firearm legally.
> >
> > AFAIK UK weapons-related laws define offensive weapons in their
> > capacity to harm others, and not the potential to be assembled into a
> > device capable of harming others.
> >
> > Therefore, is it legal to carry a disassembled weapon in the UK (e.g.
> > pepper spray divorced from the nozzle, knife separated from the hilt,
> > disassembled gun + ammo) on the same person or on 2+ different people?
> >
> > To what extent must the weapon be disassembled to not run afoul of the
> > legal definitions of an offensive weapon or unlicensed firearm?
>
> It would have to be disassembled to the point that the parts were
> useless as a weapon in their own right, and also to the point that it
> could not be reassembled within such a short period of time that it
> would be effective as an offensive weapon if the circumstances arose
> where you might want to use it as such.
Which law says that it is illegal to carry a disassembled weapon or
firearm?
>
> In practice, you would also have to show that you had a credible non-
> offensive reason for carrying around a bag of weapon parts with you.
Once you entertain the possibility of carrying a disassembled or in-
situ improvised weapon, the possibilities for covertly arming oneself
are legion and only limited by the creativity of the makers.
>
>
>
> > Obviously there will be a time when you run afoul of the offensive
> > weapons laws if you reassemble it in short order and use it on the
> > street in self-defence. How will a British court view a man who
> > reassembles a dismantled weapon on the street and uses it in self-
> > defence or to recover stolen property? What if the thief/mugger died
> > and the man swears blind that the weapon belonged to the crim (this
> > was the advice given to me by a police officer friend)?
>
> Then you'd best hope the jury believe you, and the forensics are lost
> in the post!
I kid you not. When I was speaking candidly to a police officer
friend, he told me that if I had to resort to lethal force to defend
myself or my family, always try to say the weapon belonged to the
crim. Happening to have a lethal weapon even in one's own home and
using it to such an end is a no-no.
N5
November 5
I have seen torchlights modified to act as an electric prod, cigarette
lighters modified to squirt a sticky burning gel and pre-scored metal
plates designed to be folded into a basic shiv, meant for the shoe
sole. There are many other otherwise innocent items that can be
suitably modified into a weapon - hairpins, pens, etc.
I am of course a fine, upstanding citizen so I wouldn't dream of
carrying these things where prohibited, but how much time do you think
someone with these items will be searched for and how attentive do you
think the searchers will be?
N5
November 5
Please fuck off and die.
N5
Mentalguy2k8
Please conceal your firearm up your arsehole if you can stop talking out of
it long enough, and pull the trigger.
Mrcheerful
> "November 5" <november...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
> news:d8b35d0f-3fb0-4fbc...@o30g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
>>
>>
>> Mentalguy2k8 wrote:
>>> "November 5" <november...@googlemail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:27d43411-3082-4e89...@33g2000yqj.googlegroups.com...
>>>> Where I am permanently resident, I can buy and carry a concealed
>>>> firearm legally.
>>>
>>> So get one then and stop worrying about the situation in everyone
>>> else's country.
>>
>> Please fuck off and die.
>
> Please conceal your firearm up your arsehole if you can stop talking
> out of it long enough, and pull the trigger.
Seconded.
Alex Heney
wrote:
He is, of course completely unaware of that supposed "fact" since it
is completely and utterly false in every respect.
There has been one single occasion where a person carrying a table leg
was shot and killed by the police - after they had been alerted by
somebody else to the fact they thought he was carrying a gun.
The police action on that occasion is not in any way excusable, but it
also does not fit in any way with the rubbish you posted.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
People say I'm apathetic, but I don't care.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
Ste
> Ste wrote:
> > On 14 Mar, 15:24, November 5 <november.fifth...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> > > Where I am permanently resident, I can buy and carry a concealed
> > > firearm legally.
>
> > > AFAIK UK weapons-related laws define offensive weapons in their
> > > capacity to harm others, and not the potential to be assembled into a
> > > device capable of harming others.
>
> > > Therefore, is it legal to carry a disassembled weapon in the UK (e.g.
> > > pepper spray divorced from the nozzle, knife separated from the hilt,
> > > disassembled gun + ammo) on the same person or on 2+ different people?
>
> > > To what extent must the weapon be disassembled to not run afoul of the
> > > legal definitions of an offensive weapon or unlicensed firearm?
>
> > It would have to be disassembled to the point that the parts were
> > useless as a weapon in their own right, and also to the point that it
> > could not be reassembled within such a short period of time that it
> > would be effective as an offensive weapon if the circumstances arose
> > where you might want to use it as such.
>
> Which law says that it is illegal to carry a disassembled weapon or
> firearm?
The Prevention of Crime Act 1953 says it is an offence to carry an
offensive weapon.
Various legislation and case law has established the definition of an
"offensive weapon", but briefly it is any article that is "made or
adapted for use for causing injury" or any article "carried with the
intention of causing injury".
As you can see, that quite comprehensively covers almost any offensive
object that is carried for which there is no credible justification
for possession.
> > In practice, you would also have to show that you had a credible non-
> > offensive reason for carrying around a bag of weapon parts with you.
>
> Once you entertain the possibility of carrying a disassembled or in-
> situ improvised weapon, the possibilities for covertly arming oneself
> are legion and only limited by the creativity of the makers.
Indeed. Which is why it is outlawed.
> > > Obviously there will be a time when you run afoul of the offensive
> > > weapons laws if you reassemble it in short order and use it on the
> > > street in self-defence. How will a British court view a man who
> > > reassembles a dismantled weapon on the street and uses it in self-
> > > defence or to recover stolen property? What if the thief/mugger died
> > > and the man swears blind that the weapon belonged to the crim (this
> > > was the advice given to me by a police officer friend)?
>
> > Then you'd best hope the jury believe you, and the forensics are lost
> > in the post!
>
> I kid you not. When I was speaking candidly to a police officer
> friend, he told me that if I had to resort to lethal force to defend
> myself or my family, always try to say the weapon belonged to the
> crim. Happening to have a lethal weapon even in one's own home and
> using it to such an end is a no-no.
That's untrue. You can have a variety of articles in your home that
can be used as weapons, but which have legitimate uses. For example,
decorative knifes and swords, tools of the trade, a spare set of
kitchen knives in an upstairs wardrobe, etc. The only requirement is
that you be able to offer a credible, legitimate (i.e. non-offensive)
reason for possession.
As for planting a knife, the difficulty in achieving the right
circumstances, and potentially serious consequences if the dishonesty
is discovered, almost certainly outweigh the benefit.
William Black
> So a standard Swiss army knife is OK in most places but those designed
> like
> a credit card, with a tiny fixed blade no longer than the one in a folding
> SAK designed to go on your key ring, is not, and nor are most
> 'multi-tools'
> with pliers and blades because the blades lock open when you fold the
> pliers
> into the handle. You can, however, have any such instrument in a public
> place if you have 'lawful or reasonable excuse.' So a multi-tool is still
> OK
> if you are an electrician while working, but leave it in the van when you
> go
> into a cafe where you aren't working.
And yet I carry a mulittool with a locking blade in a belt pouch just about
everywhere and have never been challenged by anyone.
Mind you, I have a reasonable excuse, I drive an elderly Land Rover and
bits keep falling off and have to be re-attached...
--
William Black
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe.
Barbeques on fire by the chalets past the castle headland
I watched the gift shops glitter in the darkness off the Newborough gate
All these moments will be lost in time, like icecream on the beach
Time for tea.
Ophelia
Australian Police Officer and an American Police Officer?
By posing the following question:
Scenario Question:
You're walking down a deserted street with your wife and two small
children. Suddenly, a dangerous looking man with a huge knife comes
around the corner, locks eyes with you, screams obscenities, raises
the knife, and charges. You are carrying a Glock .40, and you are an
expert shot. You have mere seconds before he reaches you and your
family.What do you do?
Scenario answer from a UK Police Officer:
Well, that's not really enough information to answer the question!
Does the man look poor or oppressed? Have I ever done anything to
him that would inspire him to attack? Could we run away? What does
my wife think? What about the kids? Could I possibly swing the gun
like a club and knock the knife out of his hand? What does the law
say about this situation? Does the Glock have appropriate safety
built into it? Why am I carrying a loaded gun anyway and what kind
of message does this send to society and to my children? Is it
possible he would be happy with just killing me? Does he definitely
want to kill me or would he be content just to wound me? If I were
to grab his knees and hold on, could my family get away while he was
stabbing me? Should I call 9-9-9? Why is this street so deserted? We
need to raise taxes, have a paint and weed day and make this a
happier, healthier street that would discourage such behaviour. If I
raise my gun and he turns and runs away, do I get blamed when he
falls over running away, knocks his head and kills himself? If I
shoot him, and lose the court case does his family have the
opportunity to sue me, cost me my job, my credibility, and will I
lose my family home?
Scenario answer from an Australian Police Officer:
BANG !
Scenario answer from an American Police Officer:
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG! click... (sounds of reloading) BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG!
BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! BANG! click. Daughter: "Nice
grouping dad, were those the Winchester Silver Tips?"
November 5
LOL! Even got the number of bangs about right for the American's
gun :)
Brainwashed people like Ret and Mentalguy fervently cite high American
homicide rates as why we shouldn't arm the public. I say arm the
public, blow the crims away and screw the statistics; let Russian
Roulette be the courtroom for crims.
Most British people have a subservient, prey/lemming mentality when it
comes to kowtowing for their overlords. There were no riots or public
demands for justice when police murder innocent people, unlike say the
Greek 2008 riots when Alexandros Grigoropoulos was fatally shot by a
pig. So the police get away literally with murder.
Here is what happens when police shoot an unarmed man in the US in
2009:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police_shooting_of_Oscar_Grant
...in Greece:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2008_Greek_riots
...in the UK:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jean_Charles_de_Menezes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Stanley
The politicians are just as bad but rip off the private sector
financially and line the pocket of their permanent voters, the public
sector.
N5
Victor
<november...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>
>
> Most British people have a subservient, prey/lemming mentality when it
> comes to kowtowing for their overlords. There were no riots or public
> demands for justice when police murder innocent people, unlike say the
> Greek 2008 riots when Alexandros Grigoropoulos was fatally shot by a
> pig. So the police get away literally with murder.
Not shot but the relatives of Cherry Groce hardly stood by and let the
filth get away with it.
AlanG
wrote:
>
>
>There are special rules relating to knives. Except in special areas e.g.
>onboard an aircraft, you are legally allowed to be in possession of a bladed
>or sharply pointed instrument, the cutting edge or penetrating length of
>which does not exceed 3" and the blade of which is not fixed or capable of
>being locked open. It doesn't matter whether the blade has a handle or not.
>
>So a standard Swiss army knife is OK in most places but those designed like
>a credit card, with a tiny fixed blade no longer than the one in a folding
>SAK designed to go on your key ring, is not, and nor are most 'multi-tools'
>with pliers and blades because the blades lock open when you fold the pliers
>into the handle. You can, however, have any such instrument in a public
>place if you have 'lawful or reasonable excuse.' So a multi-tool is still OK
>if you are an electrician while working, but leave it in the van when you go
>into a cafe where you aren't working. A fixed blade sheath knife is fine
>while you are fishing or camping, or in your bag on your way home
>afterwards, but don't go into town still carrying it while you buy supplies
>because then you will be guilty of an offence.
A very bad law that does little to stop the criminal and lots to
criminalise the would be law abiding
AlanG
<willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
>news:804r9a...@mid.individual.net...
>
>> So a standard Swiss army knife is OK in most places but those designed
>> like
>> a credit card, with a tiny fixed blade no longer than the one in a folding
>> SAK designed to go on your key ring, is not, and nor are most
>> 'multi-tools'
>> with pliers and blades because the blades lock open when you fold the
>> pliers
>> into the handle. You can, however, have any such instrument in a public
>> place if you have 'lawful or reasonable excuse.' So a multi-tool is still
>> OK
>> if you are an electrician while working, but leave it in the van when you
>> go
>> into a cafe where you aren't working.
>
>And yet I carry a mulittool with a locking blade in a belt pouch just about
>everywhere and have never been challenged by anyone.
What you mean is you have never been caught yet
Brian Abberation
> legal definitions of an offensive weapon or unlicensed firearm?
You just have to be able to conceal it properly; see below:
AlanG
wrote:
Quite the wrong answer.
It should be...
Turn yourself in for having an offensive weapon
See thread reason 39 to despise the police
Ophelia
"AlanG" <inv...@invalid.net> wrote in message
news:k9ksp5dibsrlnna3v...@4ax.com...
It was rather 'tongue in cheek, Alan:)
AlanG
wrote:
It or a variation been kicking about the net for at least 10 years.
Ste
> "Ophelia" <Ophe...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
>
> news:804r9a...@mid.individual.net...
>
> > So a standard Swiss army knife is OK in most places but those designed
> > like
> > a credit card, with a tiny fixed blade no longer than the one in a folding
> > SAK designed to go on your key ring, is not, and nor are most
> > 'multi-tools'
> > with pliers and blades because the blades lock open when you fold the
> > pliers
> > into the handle. You can, however, have any such instrument in a public
> > place if you have 'lawful or reasonable excuse.' So a multi-tool is still
> > OK
> > if you are an electrician while working, but leave it in the van when you
> > go
> > into a cafe where you aren't working.
>
> And yet I carry a mulittool with a locking blade in a belt pouch just about
> everywhere and have never been challenged by anyone.
>
> Mind you, I have a reasonable excuse, I drive an elderly Land Rover and
> bits keep falling off and have to be re-attached...
Multitool blades of less than 3 inches are specifically exempted, if I
remember correctly.
William Black
> On Mon, 15 Mar 2010 12:01:51 +0530, "William Black"
> <willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Ophelia" <Oph...@Elsinore.me.uk> wrote in message
>>news:804r9a...@mid.individual.net...
>>
>>> So a standard Swiss army knife is OK in most places but those designed
>>> like
>>> a credit card, with a tiny fixed blade no longer than the one in a
>>> folding
>>> SAK designed to go on your key ring, is not, and nor are most
>>> 'multi-tools'
>>> with pliers and blades because the blades lock open when you fold the
>>> pliers
>>> into the handle. You can, however, have any such instrument in a public
>>> place if you have 'lawful or reasonable excuse.' So a multi-tool is
>>> still
>>> OK
>>> if you are an electrician while working, but leave it in the van when
>>> you
>>> go
>>> into a cafe where you aren't working.
>>
>>And yet I carry a mulittool with a locking blade in a belt pouch just
>>about
>>everywhere and have never been challenged by anyone.
>
> What you mean is you have never been caught yet
I've carried it for a decade now.
Nobody actually cares.
William Black
"Ste" <ste_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:856bbf0a-7bc2-4bf0...@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
-----------------------------
I'm ok then, just...
If you remember correctly.
AlanG
<willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
You only need be stopped once and searched
http://www.nce.co.uk/foulkes-rails-over-arrest-for-possession-of-penknife/480650.article
Mrcheerful
he was silly to accept a caution over it.
William Black
That article does rather imply that the cops over-reacted and may well pay
for their over enthusiastic actions.
AlanG
wrote:
Most people are not aware of that fact.
Ophelia
"Ste" <ste_...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:856bbf0a-7bc2-4bf0...@19g2000yqu.googlegroups.com...
Much depends on the culture and environment where you live and work. If you
are in a country area most people won't give a folding knife pouch on
someone's belt a second glance. If anyone reports you it is likely to be a
townie who has moved to the country. You could get away with it for years,
until you don't, and then it only takes one person to start screaming, 'He's
got a knife!' or to make a surreptitious call to the police while you are
quietly sat minding your own business and the consequences are potentially
horrific. If you want to carry it, then out of sight in a pocket is a much
better bet. If the Land Rover is old then that is a good reason to have the
tool in the glove box but not on you after you have parked and are shopping.
Your choice; you're the one who would have to pay the price.
AlanG
<willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
I've read of similar instances so it is not uncommon. The worst
examples being that of a caterer and a gardener who both ended up in
court despite being lawfully in posession. There was also a retired
army officer arrested for having a credit card tool kit in his pocket.
AlanG
Not if the blades lock open
William Black
If the Land Rover is old then that is a good reason to have the
> tool in the glove box
Old Land Rovers don't have a glove box.
And I'm not leaving an £80 multitool in my car.
William Black
I don't think you can get a decent multitool where the blade doesn't lock
open.
Certainly all the Gerber Tools have locking blades, you know, the one the
Civil Service issues to its techs and engineers...
AlanG
<willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
Illegal to carry without 'good reason'
Cynic
<november...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>Where I am permanently resident, I can buy and carry a concealed
>firearm legally.
>AFAIK UK weapons-related laws define offensive weapons in their
>capacity to harm others, and not the potential to be assembled into a
>device capable of harming others.
Some items are prohibited whatever the intent of the person having
them or their potential for causing harm.
Handguns are one such item, and merely dissassembling a handgun does
not turn it into a non-handgun in the eyes of the law (otherwise it
would make the law trivial to circumvent). To legalise a handgun it
must be *permanently disabled* in a way that is satisfactory to the
authorities (which involves making it impossible to reactivate without
very major work).
The law on knives relates to "bladed objects" and their legality
depends (amongst other things) on the length of its blade. So to make
the knife legal you would need to break the blade into shorter
sections.
--
Cynic
Bod
AIUI, you may carry a folding pen knife legally, as long as the blade
is under 3 inches.
Perhaps Kev can confirm this?
Bod
Cynic
<willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>> What you mean is you have never been caught yet
>I've carried it for a decade now.
>Nobody actually cares.
Nobody has cared *yet*.
The usual scenario when you have all the appearance of a law abiding
citizen is that you are stopped for a completely different reason, the
police officer takes a dislike to you (for whatever reason), and
charges you for possessing the knife. Not because the policeman
seriously believes that you pose a risk, but because he wants to hurt
you and the law has provided him a simple legal way to do so.
--
Cynic
AlanG
wrote:
Why should you think Kev has any knowledge of the law? He was only an
overpaid traffic warden for 30 years.
http://www.lawgazette.co.uk/news/offensive-weapons-and-criminal-justice-act
Mike Ross
'Good reason' being a VERY movable feast. You could carry a Leatherman just
about everywhere on the thinest of reasons; you would need a bloody good reason
to carry a gravity knife or a machete just about anywhere.
Mike
--
http://www.corestore.org
'As I walk along these shores
I am the history within'
Mike Ross
>On Sun, 14 Mar 2010 08:24:52 -0700 (PDT), November 5
><november...@googlemail.com> wrote:
>
>>Where I am permanently resident, I can buy and carry a concealed
>>firearm legally.
>
>>AFAIK UK weapons-related laws define offensive weapons in their
>>capacity to harm others, and not the potential to be assembled into a
>>device capable of harming others.
>
>Some items are prohibited whatever the intent of the person having
>them or their potential for causing harm.
>
>Handguns are one such item, and merely dissassembling a handgun does
>not turn it into a non-handgun in the eyes of the law (otherwise it
>would make the law trivial to circumvent). To legalise a handgun it
>must be *permanently disabled* in a way that is satisfactory to the
>authorities (which involves making it impossible to reactivate without
>very major work).
You refer to 'a handgun'. But what in UK law is 'a handgun'? Is any part of a
handgun considered to be 'a handgun'? Or only a collection of parts capable of
being assembled into a complete handgun?
In the USA, it's easy: by law, a 'gun' is the receiver. Any other parts are just
that; parts. Lumps of metal, wood, and plastic. A barrel isn't a gun, for
instance. There's no reason anyone in the UK shouldn't possess any number of gun
parts, AFAICS, so long as they don't also possess the receiver.
Bert Hyman
<mi...@corestore.org> wrote:
> In the USA, it's easy: by law, a 'gun' is the receiver. Any other
> parts are just that; parts. Lumps of metal, wood, and plastic.
Unless you're talking about a machinegun.
16USC5845
The term "machinegun" means ... any part designed and intended solely and
exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for use
in converting a weapon into a machinegun ...
--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN be...@iphouse.com
Mike Ross
Well with machine guns it's still more specific. It's perfectly legal to possess
a semi-auto weapon which *can* be converted to a machine gun. The restricted
part (the 'any part' in the above) is the full-auto sear. That's the only part
which is exclusive to machine guns.
William Black
"Mike Ross" <mi...@corestore.org> wrote in message
news:ig23q5ldrukm768nm...@4ax.com...
What makes it a firearm is the ability to shoot bullets.
What is licenced are the proofed parts, which include the barrel and
receiver and bolt and slide and some other bits depending on the weapon.
On pistols usually the barrel and the frame.
The definition of a pistol is based on barrel length.
AlanG
wrote:
>On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 10:02:18 +0000, AlanG <inv...@invalid.net> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 16 Mar 2010 13:52:48 +0530, "William Black"
>><willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>
>>>Certainly all the Gerber Tools have locking blades, you know, the one the
>>>Civil Service issues to its techs and engineers...
>>
>>
>>Illegal to carry without 'good reason'
>
>'Good reason' being a VERY movable feast.
And will depend on magistrates deciding what is a good reason.
It's a bad law because in most cases you don't know whether you have
broken it until the court says you have
>You could carry a Leatherman just
>about everywhere on the thinest of reasons;
You couldn't. You would have to have a specific purpose in mind and be
on the way to carry it out.
> you would need a bloody good reason
>to carry a gravity knife or a machete just about anywhere.
>
I don't see why there should have to be a reason to possess anything.
"I like to do it" should be reason enough as long as you aren't
causing harm to anyone
Bert Hyman
<mi...@corestore.org> wrote:
> On 18 Mar 2010 02:21:48 GMT, Bert Hyman <be...@iphouse.com> wrote:
>
>>In news:ig23q5ldrukm768nm...@4ax.com Mike Ross
>><mi...@corestore.org> wrote:
>>
>>> In the USA, it's easy: by law, a 'gun' is the receiver. Any other
>>> parts are just that; parts. Lumps of metal, wood, and plastic.
>>
>>Unless you're talking about a machinegun.
>>
>>16USC5845
>>
>>The term "machinegun" means ... any part designed and intended solely
>>and exclusively, or combination of parts designed and intended, for
>>use in converting a weapon into a machinegun ...
>
> Well with machine guns it's still more specific. It's perfectly legal
> to possess a semi-auto weapon which *can* be converted to a machine
> gun.
Well, no. That's covered in the part I removed with the ellipsis above:
"The term "machinegun" means any weapon which shoots, is designed
to shoot, or can be readily restored to shoot, automatically more
than one shot, without manual reloading, by a single function of
the trigger."
Note the "readily restored" part; your idea of what "readily" and
"restored" means is probably quite different from the government's.
And, I made a typo in the section number; it's 26USC5845.
> The restricted part (the 'any part' in the above) is the
> full-auto sear. That's the only part which is exclusive to machine
> guns.
--
Cynic
wrote:
>You refer to 'a handgun'. But what in UK law is 'a handgun'? Is any part of a
>handgun considered to be 'a handgun'? Or only a collection of parts capable of
>being assembled into a complete handgun?
>
>In the USA, it's easy: by law, a 'gun' is the receiver. Any other parts are just
>that; parts. Lumps of metal, wood, and plastic. A barrel isn't a gun, for
>instance. There's no reason anyone in the UK shouldn't possess any number of gun
>parts, AFAICS, so long as they don't also possess the receiver.
I'm not familiar with the term "receiver" in connection with a firearm
(perhaps it's a US term?). What part is that exactly? I'm guessing
the part the cartridge fits into (which I've always known as the
"breech", though I guess it would not be called that in a revolver).
But such a definition poses a different situation, in that a person
who possesses a receiver and no other part of the weapon would be
regarded as possessing a gun, despite the fact that it would be
impossible to shoot anyone with it.
--
Cynic
AlanG
wrote:
When the latest round of anti gun laws came in there was a man
prosecuted for owning a brass tube around 18 inches long with a 1 inch
bore. When packed with black powder it was used to signal the start of
boat races. Either Whitby or Scabbyra yacht club IIRC.
I wouldn't like to be standing anywhere near it if someone was trying
to use it to propel a solid shot.
Mike Ross
<willia...@hotmail.co.uk> wrote:
>"Mike Ross" <mi...@corestore.org> wrote in message
>news:ig23q5ldrukm768nm...@4ax.com...
<snip>
>> You refer to 'a handgun'. But what in UK law is 'a handgun'? Is any part
>> of a
>> handgun considered to be 'a handgun'? Or only a collection of parts
>> capable of
>> being assembled into a complete handgun?
>>
>> In the USA, it's easy: by law, a 'gun' is the receiver. Any other parts
>> are just
>> that; parts. Lumps of metal, wood, and plastic. A barrel isn't a gun, for
>> instance. There's no reason anyone in the UK shouldn't possess any number
>> of gun
>> parts, AFAICS, so long as they don't also possess the receiver.
>
>What makes it a firearm is the ability to shoot bullets.
>
>What is licenced are the proofed parts, which include the barrel and
>receiver and bolt and slide and some other bits depending on the weapon.
>
>On pistols usually the barrel and the frame.
>
>The definition of a pistol is based on barrel length.
That's quite a bit different from the US situation; I'd forgotten about the UK
and the existence of proof houses. Thanks for the complete answer!