putting coloured tape on passports
Carl D
to sort them out quickly (since they all look the same on the
outside). Would it be illegal to stick electrical tape on the
outside covers?
thanks
Steve Firth
I don't know about illegal, but airlines and other carriers will not
accept defaced passports. You could find yourself losing every penny you
paid for a holiday if an airline rep refuses to let you, or any one of
the family, fly.
Ian Jackson
<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
Unless your check-in person is an absolute jobsworth, I don't think
anyone could call sticking a bit of coloured tape on the outside of a
passport 'defacing it'. In fact, during the pre-check-in checking (and
possibly at other times as you pass through the embarkation process),
some airlines actually DO stick their own coloured stickers on the back
of your passport. Mine has several (all from Virgin, I think).
--
Ian
Owain
You can get passport wallets (including the old British pre-EU) style
in a variety of colours, which you could personalise to your heart's
content. Sometimes pound shops have plasticcy ones, or Smythson's of
Bond Street will do you rather nice leather ones.
Owain
Neil Williams
Doubt it. You can't read the UK "logo" on mine any more, and it's
only been looked at "oddly" once, by a Dutch border guard who I guess
hadn't seen one in that state before. And I've got security and
cleared stickers from various airports all over the back of it.
I wouldn't stick anything inside, but I doubt a small square of it on
the back cover would be an issue, especially if it can be easily
removed.
Neil
the Omrud
Although the signs at airport immigration desks tell you to remove your
passport from such wallets before showing it.
--
David
tim....
"the Omrud" <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> wrote in message
news:JgBMm.6095$Ym4....@text.news.virginmedia.com...
Probably because it's impossible to swipe the magnetic strip with them still
inside (most passports in circulation still have the strip)
tim
Ian Jackson
<usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> writes
--
Ian
Steve Firth
> In message <1j9c0ji.ba69uebw3s1fN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
> <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
> >Carl D <5fa3...@example.com> wrote:
> >
> >> I'd like to colour-code my family's passports to make it easier
> >> to sort them out quickly (since they all look the same on the
> >> outside). Would it be illegal to stick electrical tape on the
> >> outside covers?
> >
> >I don't know about illegal, but airlines and other carriers will not
> >accept defaced passports. You could find yourself losing every penny you
> >paid for a holiday if an airline rep refuses to let you, or any one of
> >the family, fly.
>
> Unless your check-in person is an absolute jobsworth,
i.e. all of them.
> I don't think anyone could call sticking a bit of coloured tape on the
> outside of a passport 'defacing it'. In fact, during the pre-check-in
> checking (and possibly at other times as you pass through the embarkation
> process), some airlines actually DO stick their own coloured stickers on
> the back of your passport. Mine has several (all from Virgin, I think).
Well, I wouldn't have thought so, but I've seen several people turned
away for what seems like trivial defacement of a passport so I wouldn't
put it past them.
John Whitworth
"Carl D" <5fa3...@example.com> wrote in message
news:BV30ITEZ4013...@reece.net.au...
Probably depends what voltage of electrical tape you are intending to stick
on there! ;-)
Ste
Provided the tape can be removed easily, then I don't forsee any
problem.
Road_Hog
Don't use tape, go to a stationers and pick up a page of those small
coloured stickers, usually circles, squares stars etc. The airlines use the
circle ones themselves, that way if anyone ever did query it, you could say
that it was from a previous flight.
Roland Perry
<16f1642a-a83d-45d0...@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, at
16:30:20 on Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:
>I wouldn't stick anything inside
You won't get into Turkey or Egypt then, both insist you stick their
adhesive Visa inside before reaching the immigration desk.
--
Roland Perry
Ian Jackson
<rol...@perry.co.uk> writes
Surely the many pages inside passports are provided for the specific
purpose of being stamped, and for the attachment of visas?
--
Ian
Yellow
Defacement of the details inside certainly, but a sticker on the cover?
Mine has several, put on there by airlines.
Steve Firth
[snip]
> > Well, I wouldn't have thought so, but I've seen several people turned
> > away for what seems like trivial defacement of a passport so I wouldn't
> > put it past them.
>
> Defacement of the details inside certainly, but a sticker on the cover?
> Mine has several, put on there by airlines.
THe bloke in front of me in an Easyjet Queue was given hassle over felt
tip pen marks. Ryanair kicked off with someone else over a dog-eared
corner.
I'm not definitively stating that a sticker on a passport will see one
refused travel. You will not that I used the word "if".
The OP may be willing to take the risk, you may be, I'm not.
I've never had a sticker put on my passport by an airline BTW, and I'm a
frequent flyer with budgets and scheduled airlines.
bin me
back cover or holder of your passport. (Shows you have passed basic
airport security).
--
Alan
the Omrud
It's not magnetic - it's just two rows of printed characters which are
easily read by an optical reader.
--
David
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Subject: Re: putting coloured tape on passports
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It's not magnetic - it's just two rows of printed characters which are
easily read by an optical reader.
--
David
the Omrud
Yes, I started noticing them at Manchester Airport a few months ago.
I've not seen any at ferry ports.
--
David
Jo Lonergan
>Yellow <ye...@please.no.spam.com> wrote:
>
>[snip]
>
>> > Well, I wouldn't have thought so, but I've seen several people turned
>> > away for what seems like trivial defacement of a passport so I wouldn't
>> > put it past them.
>>
>> Defacement of the details inside certainly, but a sticker on the cover?
>> Mine has several, put on there by airlines.
>
>THe bloke in front of me in an Easyjet Queue was given hassle over felt
>tip pen marks. Ryanair kicked off with someone else over a dog-eared
>corner.
It's not unknown for an airline to deny passengers boarding on the grounds that
their passport is damaged, even when official passport control at the airport in
question has no problem with it. Oddly, the plane then takes off with every seat
filled.
I've never heard of Easy Jet doing this, however.
--
Jo
Ian Jackson
<jolon...@hotmail.com> writes
passport which is not in absolutely mint condition. The important thing
is that the two pages containing your details and photo are adequately
legible, and don't appear to have been tampered with in any way. I also
expect that no pages should have been removed (in case that there has
been an official notice placed there, such as 'Not valid for travel to
Scotland').
In the course of their lives, passports get all sorts of 'official' bits
and pieces attached to them and inside them. Security stickers, visas
(stamped, stapled or glued), exit and entry stamps etc. Any airline
official who declared that these were 'defacements' would be behaving in
a very perverse manner indeed.
--
Ian
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Date: Wed, 18 Nov 2009 08:45:09 +0000
From: Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk>
Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated
Subject: Re: putting coloured tape on passports
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In message <n4m6g55kph3i04dii...@4ax.com>, Jo Lonergan
<jolon...@hotmail.com> writes
I can't believe that any airline 'reserves the right' to refuse any
passport which is not in absolutely mint condition. The important thing
is that the two pages containing your details and photo are adequately
legible, and don't appear to have been tampered with in any way. I also
expect that no pages should have been removed (in case that there has
been an official notice placed there, such as 'Not valid for travel to
Scotland').
In the course of their lives, passports get all sorts of 'official' bits
and pieces attached to them and inside them. Security stickers, visas
(stamped, stapled or glued), exit and entry stamps etc. Any airline
official who declared that these were 'defacements' would be behaving in
a very perverse manner indeed.
--
Ian
Neil Williams
> >I wouldn't stick anything inside
>
> You won't get into Turkey or Egypt then, both insist you stick their
> adhesive Visa inside before reaching the immigration desk.
I didn't mean that. I meant that I wouldn't stick anything inside (or
otherwise deface the inside with anything) that was not an official
document that was intended to be stuck inside a passport.
Neil
Neil Williams
> It's not magnetic - it's just two rows of printed characters which are
> easily read by an optical reader.
Though it may be difficult to line it up with the reader in a case,
and a case might well hide signs of it being a fake more effectively.
The requirement to remove it only really came in with the scanning of
every passport - prior to that, some UK immigration officers didn't
care. I guess they found that them being in cases slowed things down
too much.
Neil
Roland Perry
Tue, 17 Nov 2009, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> remarked:
>I've never had a sticker put on my passport by an airline BTW,
Pedantically, have you had stickers put on by security staff employed to
pre-screen the check-in queue? (That's where it usually happens).
>and I'm a frequent flyer with budgets and scheduled airlines.
It's getting much more common for airlines to affix the baggage reclaim
label to the back of the passport, because there's often no longer a
conventional ticket or boarding card to affix it to.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Nov 2009, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>>Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com> remarked:
>>
>>>I wouldn't stick anything inside
>>
>>You won't get into Turkey or Egypt then, both insist you stick their
>>adhesive Visa inside before reaching the immigration desk.
>
>Surely the many pages inside passports are provided for the specific
>purpose of being stamped, and for the attachment of visas?
But Neil is apparently not prepared to risk applying the stick-on kind
himself :) But the officials in Turkey and Egypt require you to do that,
they clearly don't want to spend all day doing it themselves.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Road_Hog <nos...@nospam.com> remarked:
>> I'd like to colour-code my family's passports to make it easier
>> to sort them out quickly (since they all look the same on the
>> outside). Would it be illegal to stick electrical tape on the
>> outside covers?
>>
>> thanks
>
>Don't use tape, go to a stationers and pick up a page of those small
>coloured stickers, usually circles, squares stars etc. The airlines use the
>circle ones themselves, that way if anyone ever did query it, you could say
>that it was from a previous flight.
Actually, all the ones I've seen are small rectangles (about the size of
a thumbnail).
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
on Tue, 17 Nov 2009, the Omrud <usenet...@gEXPUNGEmail.com> remarked:
>>> Although the signs at airport immigration desks tell you to remove
>>>your passport from such wallets before showing it.
>>>
>> I've never noticed such signs. Something new?
>
>Yes, I started noticing them at Manchester Airport a few months ago.
>I've not seen any at ferry ports.
They appeared at the airports I use about two years ago. Perhaps when it
became clear that they would be needing to read "chipped" passports at
the desk (rather than swiping the OCR strip), and wanted to minimise the
delay.
--
Roland Perry
Steve Firth
> It's getting much more common for airlines to affix the baggage reclaim
> label to the back of the passport, because there's often no longer a
> conventional ticket or boarding card to affix it to.
Which they do after checking your passport.
Neil Williams
> >THe bloke in front of me in an Easyjet Queue was given hassle over felt
> >tip pen marks. Ryanair kicked off with someone else over a dog-eared
> >corner.
>
> It's not unknown for an airline to deny passengers boarding on the grounds that
> their passport is damaged, even when official passport control at the airport in
> question has no problem with it. Oddly, the plane then takes off with every seat
> filled.
The Ryanair case noted wasn't about a dog-eared corner - it was that
the passport had started to delaminate at the corner. In that case, I
believe a replacement should be obtained, as such a condition could
have resulted from tampering with the photograph, for instance.
Neil
Neil Williams
> But Neil is apparently not prepared to risk applying the stick-on kind
> himself :) But the officials in Turkey and Egypt require you to do that,
> they clearly don't want to spend all day doing it themselves.
:)
That's not what I meant.
Neil
Roland Perry
on Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> remarked:
>> It's getting much more common for airlines to affix the baggage reclaim
>> label to the back of the passport, because there's often no longer a
>> conventional ticket or boarding card to affix it to.
>
>Which they do after checking your passport.
Yes, and... you said you'd never had stickers [from an airline].
And of course that's not the last time your passport is checked (the
airline will do it at the gate too). Or do the airline employees there
assume that all duff passports have been weeded out by then.
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
> And of course that's not the last time your passport is checked (the
> airline will do it at the gate too). Or do the airline employees there
> assume that all duff passports have been weeded out by then.
Probably not, as for many passengers (checking in online) it is the
only check, unless the airline is Ryanair and you don't have an EU
passport.
Neil
Steve Firth
> In message <1j9dg6r.1no2m4k1d2y07gN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, at 10:20:07
> on Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> remarked:
> >> It's getting much more common for airlines to affix the baggage reclaim
> >> label to the back of the passport, because there's often no longer a
> >> conventional ticket or boarding card to affix it to.
> >
> >Which they do after checking your passport.
>
> Yes, and... you said you'd never had stickers [from an airline].
No, I said I've never had an airline putting stickers on the cover of my
passport. They go on the boarding card. However your post that I'm
replying to mentions these stickers being affixed by the airline as a
record of checked in luggage. Even though I've never experienced this
myself, I have experienced check-in and luggage is always checked in
*after* passports have been checked.
> And of course that's not the last time your passport is checked (the
> airline will do it at the gate too). Or do the airline employees there
> assume that all duff passports have been weeded out by then.
The checks later are done by passport control (nothing to do with the
airline, security (ditto) and then finally the trolley dollys at the
gate who in my experience only check the page with a photo.
Biggest risk of rejection is at check-in where someone is going to get
an extra �5-15 in their pay packet if they stop you from flying.
Steve Firth
> I can't believe that any airline 'reserves the right' to refuse any
> passport which is not in absolutely mint condition.
Belief doesn't have much to do with it. Easyjet, for example, take an
extremely hard-line view on the condition of passports. Note that the
Home Office (now UK Borders Agency) says it has no power to compel an
airline to accept a passport as valid.
<http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/columnists/gillcharlton/2799656/Gill-
Charlton-On-the-case.html>
And here's how they ensure that as many passports as possible are
rejected, they pay staff a bonus for rejecting passports:
<http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/simon-calder-the-ma
n-who-pays-his-way-495316.html>
Neil Williams
> The checks later are done by passport control (nothing to do with the
> airline
Not in the UK, where there is no outbound passport control. In the
UK, they are checked at the gate by airline employees.
Neil
Jon Ribbens
> I've never had a sticker put on my passport by an airline BTW, and I'm a
> frequent flyer with budgets and scheduled airlines.
When I went to the USA with BA they stuck something to the outside of
my passport; the glue they used was evidently highly inappropriate as
there is still a sticky mark there now several years later.
Ian Jackson
<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
Well, I can only say that I'm extremely surprised to find that any
airline should provide financial inducements to 'encourage' their staff
to find unreasonable reasons for preventing passengers from travelling.
I can quite see their basic thinking, but this surely puts airline staff
on the same level as jobsworth traffic wardens and wheel clampers. As
well as the staff laughing all the way to the bank with their regular
quota of bonus money, I suppose that the airline simply pockets any
non-refundable fares, and re-sells the seats. This raises the concept of
'sharp practice' to a new (low) level.
--
Ian
Roland Perry
>Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <1j9dg6r.1no2m4k1d2y07gN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, at 10:20:07
>> on Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> remarked:
>> >> It's getting much more common for airlines to affix the baggage reclaim
>> >> label to the back of the passport, because there's often no longer a
>> >> conventional ticket or boarding card to affix it to.
>> >
>> >Which they do after checking your passport.
>>
>> Yes, and... you said you'd never had stickers [from an airline].
>
>No, I said I've never had an airline putting stickers on the cover of my
>passport.
Just to clarify, you've never had the small stickers that say a passport
has been checked by some sort of security check?
>They go on the boarding card. However your post that I'm
>replying to mentions these stickers being affixed by the airline as a
>record of checked in luggage. Even though I've never experienced this
>myself,
I've experienced it so often, that there are sticky patches on the back
cover of my passport!
>> And of course that's not the last time your passport is checked (the
>> airline will do it at the gate too). Or do the airline employees there
>> assume that all duff passports have been weeded out by then.
>
>The checks later are done by passport control (nothing to do with the
>airline,
Depending on the airport. It seems to be a 100% check now at Gatwick
(after several years of no checks). Whereas at EMA it's very hit and
miss.
>security (ditto)
I've not seen security people checking passports in the UK. What they
want is the boarding card.
> and then finally the trolley dollys at the gate
They are almost always ground staff.
>who in my experience only check the page with a photo.
Obviously not on the "points" scheme then :)
>Biggest risk of rejection is at check-in where someone is going to get
>an extra £5-15 in their pay packet if they stop you from flying.
A good conspiracy theory, but the newspaper article takes an
over-cynical approach to this I think.
--
Roland Perry
Steve Firth
> Just to clarify, you've never had the small stickers that say a passport
> has been checked by some sort of security check?
No, not at any of the airports that I use in the Middle East or Europe.
Path: individual.net!not-for-mail
From: %steve%@malloc.co.uk (Steve Firth)
Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated
Subject: Re: putting coloured tape on passports
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Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> Just to clarify, you've never had the small stickers that say a passport
> has been checked by some sort of security check?
No, not at any of the airports that I use in the Middle East or Europe.
Saxman
> I've never noticed such signs. Something new?
They are present at Stansted Airport as well as signs requesting
passengers not to use their mobile phones.
Adam Funk
> In message <1j9c0ji.ba69uebw3s1fN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
><%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
>>Carl D <5fa3...@example.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I'd like to colour-code my family's passports to make it easier
>>> to sort them out quickly (since they all look the same on the
>>> outside). Would it be illegal to stick electrical tape on the
>>> outside covers?
>>
>>I don't know about illegal, but airlines and other carriers will not
>>accept defaced passports. You could find yourself losing every penny you
>>paid for a holiday if an airline rep refuses to let you, or any one of
>>the family, fly.
>
> Unless your check-in person is an absolute jobsworth, I don't think
> anyone could call sticking a bit of coloured tape on the outside of a
> passport 'defacing it'. In fact, during the pre-check-in checking (and
> possibly at other times as you pass through the embarkation process),
> some airlines actually DO stick their own coloured stickers on the back
> of your passport. Mine has several (all from Virgin, I think).
Airlines often stick baggage claim tickets on passports during
check-in, but I've never had any problem removing them soon
afterwards.
The OP could test some labels in advance (I think someone else in the
thread suggested "coloured dots" or something like that) to ensure
that they can be removed in case the airline doesn't like them.
Adam Funk
I think they used to be concerned only with ensuring you could legally
enter the country, not with keeping records of your legal travels.
Now they need to swipe the passport for snooping^W security purposes.
Nobby Anderson
Do something innocuous. For example, put a small black dot on the spine,
looking like something that could have been accidental if it's even
noticed. Put the oldest nearest the edge, and the youngest nearest the
middle and space the others in between. Hold the passports in a clump,
viewing the spine, and it should be obvious immediately whose is whose.
Unless you've an extraordinarily large family, of course!
Nobby
Pete Verdon
> Ian Jackson wrote:
>>> Although the signs at airport immigration desks tell you to
>>> remove your passport from such wallets before showing it.
>> I've never noticed such signs. Something new?
> They are present at Stansted Airport as well as signs requesting
> passengers not to use their mobile phones.
Do they deign to tell you why?
The Immigration queue (remember when there wasn't a queue?) is usually
the first place after getting off the plane that you have nothing to do
but wait. A good time to phone people to let them know you've arrived.
Pete
Roland Perry
Nov 2009, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> remarked:
>I think they used to be concerned only with ensuring you could legally
>enter the country, not with keeping records of your legal travels.
>Now they need to swipe the passport for snooping^W security purposes.
There's this new e-borders "count them out and count them back in"
scheme which is in effect a "virtual landing card" for Brits, as well as
foreigners.
Meanwhile, American citizens [as well as foreigners] arriving in USA
have to fill in a customs form (which could allow tracking afterwards);
whereas there's no such concept in most (all?) of the EU.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Thu, 19 Nov 2009, Pete Verdon
<ne...@verdonet.organisation.unitedkingdom.invalid> remarked:
>> They are present at Stansted Airport as well as signs requesting
>>passengers not to use their mobile phones.
Those signs have been there much longer.
>Do they deign to tell you why?
I could tell you, but then I'd have to kill you :)
>The Immigration queue (remember when there wasn't a queue?)
Depends a lot on the time of day. The last few times I arrived at
Birmingham Airport, for example, our plane was the only one
disembarking, and you could walk straight up to a desk if you were in
the first wave of people off the plane. On the other hand, I can't
remember a time when there was *less* than a 20 minute queue at Luton in
the late evening (lots of planes coming home for the night).
>is usually the first place after getting off the plane that you have
>nothing to do but wait. A good time to phone people to let them know
>you've arrived.
Maybe it's better to tell people you've arrived *after* passport
control, if you want to give an accurate estimate of when you will be
leaving the airport.
--
Roland Perry
Maurice
> I'd like to colour-code my family's passports to make it easier
> to sort them out quickly (since they all look the same on the
> outside). Would it be illegal to stick electrical tape on the
> outside covers?
>
Why not put them in different coloured holders? Solves the problems of
"defacing" I would have thought.
--
Maurice
Steve Firth
The US has the same traveller tracking scheme as the UK. It is, after
all where the UK bought the eBorders concept and systems from.
Neil Williams
> Do they deign to tell you why?
No, but I always assumed it was because two people could collude by
phone to get someone past passport control who shouldn't.
Similarly, my understanding of why photography is not allowed in such
locations would be that someone could use a photograph to plan such a
circumvention of passport control or security.
Neil
Neil Williams
> The US has the same traveller tracking scheme as the UK. It is, after
> all where the UK bought the eBorders concept and systems from.
Didn't know that - but I did notice that the US was the same as the UK
(but different from Schengenland) in having no formal outbound
passport control, relying instead on airline staff to perform that
function.
Neil
Roland Perry
>> has been checked by some sort of security check?
>
>No, not at any of the airports that I use in the Middle East or Europe.
What about airports elsewhere - or is that extent of your travels?
[I've had a sticker like that in Paris, I'm pretty sure].
--
Roland Perry
Steve Firth
I've never had a sticker applied to my passport at any airport. If it's
a recent (within the last twelve months) change then last year my
travels were confined to EMEA. The only stickers or markings on my
passport are the stamps, visas etc placed on the appropriate pages
inside the passport.
I seem to have to keep stating the same thing over and over.
Ian Jackson
<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
You don't 'have to' keep stating it. I'm sure you're telling the truth.
The point is, it IS common practice for various airport/airline
officials to stick things on (and sometimes, in) passports. At Gatwick,
Virgin certainly DO do it.
At this very moment, I have in my hand, two passports. On the backs,
both have a load of Virgin security stickers, each date-stamped and
initialled. One has, on the front, a small round white sticker at the
top right, with the number '4' written on it, a small round green
sticker at bottom right, and a further similar sticker between (and
over) the 'DIEU' and the 'ET' of the coat of arms. Inside, both bear
various perforations remaining where the USA Visa Waiver stubs have been
stapled and later removed, and one actually still has the remains of
part of the stub still attached. Otherwise, both passports are in very
good condition.
Do you think I would have a problem if I tried to fly EasyJet? Just in
case, I think I'll stick to Virgin. ["A wise choice," do I hear you
say?]
--
Ian
Neil Williams
wrote:
> Do you think I would have a problem if I tried to fly EasyJet?
No. My passport has stickers all over the back and now a Visa Waiver
stub and you can't see the crest at all, and this has never bothered
any member of easyJet staff, or indeed any other airline. It confused
a member of Dutch (I think) immigration staff but only until he
realised what it was.
> Just in
> case, I think I'll stick to Virgin.
I don't think you'll find many routes (if any at all) where they are
in competition.
That said, I'd choose easyJet over BA for European flights, even if I
was *not* paying.
Neil
Steve Firth
> You don't 'have to' keep stating it.[snip]
Well, I am bemused by why the same question is being asked over and over
again.
> Do you think I would have a problem if I tried to fly EasyJet?
I really can't say one way or the other. I have not stated categorically
that anyone flying with any airline will find their passport being
rejected if they have stickers on the cover. Terms used included "if"
and "could". Since the policies are extra-legal and don't even conform
to Borders Agency guidelines who can say one way or the other what any
airline will do.
One can only point at what they have done and the fact that the staff
get a bonus for refusing to accept passports that *may* cause a problem.
Ian Jackson
<%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
which has got the economy into the state it's in. One of the articles
you refer to
<http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/simon-calder-the-man
-who-pays-his-way-495316.html>
dates back to May 2005. It would appear that the bankers were merely
'taking a leaf out of EasyJet's book'.
--
Ian
S
wrote:
They are at other airports, too, not just at Stansted, and they are
widely ignored by the passengers and nobody seems to care.
S
> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> > on Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Steve Firth <%ste...@malloc.co.uk> remarked:
> > >> Just to clarify, you've never had the small stickers that say a passport
> > >> has been checked by some sort of security check?
>
> > >No, not at any of the airports that I use in the Middle East or Europe.
>
> > What about airports elsewhere - or is that extent of your travels?
>
> > [I've had a sticker like that in Paris, I'm pretty sure].
>
> I've never had a sticker applied to my passport at any airport. If it's
> a recent (within the last twelve months) change then last year my
> travels were confined to EMEA. The only stickers or markings on my
> passport are the stamps, visas etc placed on the appropriate pages
> inside the passport.
Some airlines have people asking you security questions and check your
visa if appropriate while you are queuing at check-in, then put a
sticker on the outside of your passport to indicate that you have been
dealt with. I seem to remember this happening when flying to the US.
S
There are "police control" desks at the airports now, but I have
never seen any policemen there.
S
> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVETHISjack...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> > I can't believe that any airline 'reserves the right' to refuse any
> > passport which is not in absolutely mint condition.
>
> Belief doesn't have much to do with it. Easyjet, for example, take an
> extremely hard-line view on the condition of passports. Note that the
> Home Office (now UK Borders Agency) says it has no power to compel an
> airline to accept a passport as valid.
>
> <http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/columnists/gillcharlton/2799656/Gill-
> Charlton-On-the-case.html>
>
> And here's how they ensure that as many passports as possible are
> rejected, they pay staff a bonus for rejecting passports:
>
> <http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/simon-calder-the-ma
> n-who-pays-his-way-495316.html>
Of course, this is at the expense of alienating that passenger (and
his family) forever.
S
> In message <14aet6xeh5....@news.ducksburg.com>, at 23:05:08 on Wed, 18
> Nov 2009, Adam Funk <a240...@ducksburg.com> remarked:
>
> >I think they used to be concerned only with ensuring you could legally
> >enter the country, not with keeping records of your legal travels.
> >Now they need to swipe the passport for snooping^W security purposes.
>
> There's this new e-borders "count them out and count them back in"
> scheme which is in effect a "virtual landing card" for Brits, as well as
> foreigners.
>
> Meanwhile, American citizens [as well as foreigners] arriving in USA
> have to fill in a customs form (which could allow tracking afterwards);
> whereas there's no such concept in most (all?) of the EU.
It is only one form for each family travelling together, so it cannot
be used to track individuals.
Neil Williams
> Some airlines have people asking you security questions and check your
> visa if appropriate while you are queuing at check-in, then put a
> sticker on the outside of your passport to indicate that you have been
> dealt with. I seem to remember this happening when flying to the US.
US airlines tend to do this, and it's a good reason not to fly with
them...
Neil
Neil Williams
> There are "police control" desks at the airports now, but I have
> never seen any policemen there.
I did at Luton once, but they were clearly looking for a specific
individual and were not checking passports.
Neil
Adam Funk
> I can't believe that any airline 'reserves the right' to refuse any
> passport which is not in absolutely mint condition. The important thing
> is that the two pages containing your details and photo are adequately
> legible, and don't appear to have been tampered with in any way. I also
> expect that no pages should have been removed (in case that there has
> been an official notice placed there, such as 'Not valid for travel to
> Scotland').
Is that (stay out of Scotland) a real example?
Adam Funk
> In message <1j9ds9q.jrwza8i5stp1N%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, at 15:30:11 on
> Wed, 18 Nov 2009, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> remarked:
>>Biggest risk of rejection is at check-in where someone is going to get
>>an extra £5-15 in their pay packet if they stop you from flying.
>
> A good conspiracy theory, but the newspaper article takes an
> over-cynical approach to this I think.
Is it possible to be too cynical about airlines (especially "budget"
ones)?
Adam Funk
[sorry, attribution lost]
>>>> Although the signs at airport immigration desks tell you to remove
>>>>your passport from such wallets before showing it.
...
> They appeared at the airports I use about two years ago. Perhaps when it
> became clear that they would be needing to read "chipped" passports at
> the desk (rather than swiping the OCR strip), and wanted to minimise the
> delay.
AIUI, the RFIDs don't require physical contact, so they ought to be
able to read them without taking them out of the covers.
The disadvantage is that governments are making their citizens walking
targets. It's possible to build a bomb that will be triggered by the
proximity of a specific nationality's passport. There are passport
wallets available with RFID shielding.
Ian Jackson
<ccfd4fa7-b469-407f...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>, S
<s_pick...@yahoo.com> writes
I think the 'No Photos, No Phones' signs are only meant to apply to the
immediate areas where they are displayed, usually in 'sensitive' places
like passport control, baggage security examination etc. Many of these
have been there for a long time. I haven't flown for a couple of years
(certainly since the 'No Liquids' ban) so I haven't had the occasion or
opportunity to test whether these restrictions apply elsewhere.
--
Ian
Alex Heney
Why is it any sort of reason (never mind a "good" one) to not fly with
them?
Do you think it causes some sort of harm, that you wouldn't get if
flying with other airlines?
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
Life is a series of very rude awakenings.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
Jo Lonergan
To be fair, the origin of this is probably the hefty fines airlines have to pay
if they accept a passenger who on arrival proves not to have the correct
documentation (the last I heard, many years ago, was GBP 5000 per passenger). So
it makes sense for them to give staff an incentive to be careful.
Being able to check that passengers have not been substituted is a bonus.
When I first used to fly in the 1970s you could use anybody's ticket, as long as
they were of the same gender as you, as check-in and passport control were
completely separate. Passport control at departure seems now to have been
outsourced to the airlines.
--
Jo
Lobster
> Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <1j9c0ji.ba69uebw3s1fN%%steve%@malloc.co.uk>, Steve Firth
>> <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> writes
>>> Carl D <5fa3...@example.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> I'd like to colour-code my family's passports to make it easier
>>>> to sort them out quickly (since they all look the same on the
>>>> outside). Would it be illegal to stick electrical tape on the
>>>> outside covers?
>>> accept defaced passports. You could find yourself losing every penny you
>>> paid for a holiday if an airline rep refuses to let you, or any one of
>>> the family, fly.
>> Unless your check-in person is an absolute jobsworth,
>
> i.e. all of them.
>
>> I don't think anyone could call sticking a bit of coloured tape on the
>> outside of a passport 'defacing it'. In fact, during the pre-check-in
>> checking (and possibly at other times as you pass through the embarkation
>> process), some airlines actually DO stick their own coloured stickers on
>> the back of your passport. Mine has several (all from Virgin, I think).
>
> Well, I wouldn't have thought so, but I've seen several people turned
> away for what seems like trivial defacement of a passport so I wouldn't
> put it past them.
Blimey.
I had no idea about any of this, and for many years have been
identifying my families' passports using the simple expedient of having
each person's initial letter written on the top outside corner in marker
pen. Have travelled many times, as a family and me separately on
business, with many airlines (mostly the low-cost ones) and have never
had a problem.
I think I may clean them off though...
David
I think I may
Roland Perry
Thu, 19 Nov 2009, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk> remarked:
Thanks for the clarification.
>I seem to have to keep stating the same thing over and over.
Only because you keep apparently qualifying your remarks eg: "by an
airline" or "within EMEA". Now that we know it's absolutely no stickers
of any kind, at any time, we can definitely conclude that this is out of
the ordinary.
Security )pre-screening" stickers have been applied to my passport for
at least 20 years, and baggage claim stickers ever since airlines
departed from universal conventional boarding cards (which oddly enough
I *did* get this trip from Easyjet both ways - so that sticker went on
the back of the smaller 'half' of the boarding card).
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<40b59884-fd5a-4992...@d5g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, at
16:00:25 on Thu, 19 Nov 2009, S <s_pick...@yahoo.com> remarked:
>> Meanwhile, American citizens [as well as foreigners] arriving in USA
>> have to fill in a customs form (which could allow tracking afterwards);
>> whereas there's no such concept in most (all?) of the EU.
>
>It is only one form for each family travelling together, so it cannot
>be used to track individuals.
On reflection, only the Head of Household is logged that way, so I
agree. (I was in "unaccompanied traveller" mode there, being mainly a
business traveller myself). The equivalent form for Egypt (from whence I
am currently returning) has a place to list all the accompany persons,
iirc.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<097ca036-842d-4668...@37g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, at
09:40:17 on Thu, 19 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:
>> The US has the same traveller tracking scheme as the UK. It is, after
>> all where the UK bought the eBorders concept and systems from.
>
>Didn't know that - but I did notice that the US was the same as the UK
>(but different from Schengenland) in having no formal outbound
>passport control, relying instead on airline staff to perform that
>function.
Indeed, the US doesn't seem to me to have the "outbound" e-borders
system [1] that they are rolling out in the UK. Nor does it require
their *own* citizens to lodge advance information with the airline.
However the USA's advance information system for arriving aliens is
stricter than the UK's.
[1] Although the original 'excuse' for fingerprinting arriving aliens
was so they could use a kiosk to log their subsequent departure - a
scheme that was trialled, but never deployed.
--
Roland Perry
Steve Firth
[Initials on passports]
> I think I may clean them off though...
I wouldn't. If the airlines you use have been accepting them as they
are, I'd take no action. If you try to clean off marker pen you will
probably damage the cover of the passport itself and that could be taken
as defacing the passport.
Roland Perry
<502565bb-e4dd-4e44...@f16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>, at
16:00:24 on Thu, 19 Nov 2009, S <s_pick...@yahoo.com> remarked:
>There are "police control" desks at the airports now, but I have
>never seen any policemen there.
At EMA, when they are intermittently manned it's real policemen (from
Leicestershire constabulary). I regret to say I wasn't paying enough
attention to be able to say whether the folks permanently manning those
desks at Gatwick were police, or some other agency.
--
Roland Perry
Neil Williams
> Is that (stay out of Scotland) a real example?
I doubt it, as I can't see how it would be enforced.
Neil
Neil Williams
> AIUI, the RFIDs don't require physical contact, so they ought to be
> able to read them without taking them out of the covers.
They aren't reading the RFID yet, I don't think - they appear to be
using scanners to read the machine readable text. This is easier to
line up without a cover on.
> The disadvantage is that governments are making their citizens walking
> targets. It's possible to build a bomb that will be triggered by the
> proximity of a specific nationality's passport. There are passport
> wallets available with RFID shielding.
ISTR that the cover itself is shielded, and if the passport is closed
it cannot be easily read. (Though this wouldn't be perfect, and would
be vulnerable to a high-power reader).
Neil
Neil Williams
> Why is it any sort of reason (never mind a "good" one) to not fly with
> them?
>
> Do you think it causes some sort of harm, that you wouldn't get if
> flying with other airlines?
It is an added inconvenience that you don't get when flying with a
European airline. On the one occasion I've flown with a US airline
(American, who were otherwise excellent), I got an absolute grilling
on check-in, with the member of staff concerned seemingly determined
to get me to prove I shouldn't have been there, just on the basis of
having purchased my ticket the day before because the company were
being disorganised.
Neil
Neil Williams
> Security )pre-screening" stickers have been applied to my passport for
> at least 20 years, and baggage claim stickers ever since airlines
> departed from universal conventional boarding cards (which oddly enough
> I *did* get this trip from Easyjet both ways - so that sticker went on
> the back of the smaller 'half' of the boarding card).
On the rare occasion I actually check in luggage, I tend to pull them
off and stick them on the self-printed boarding card, which seems to
be a more sensible place for them.
I have wondered in the past, though, why there is any need for a
boarding card at all, and why you can't just be boarded by scanning
your passport, which will be made easier with the RFID variety.
Neil
Neil Williams
> Indeed, the US doesn't seem to me to have the "outbound" e-borders
> system [1] that they are rolling out in the UK.
And it's that part of it I really dislike. Why does the Government
have to be able to log where I'm going *to*? Why is it any of their
business?
(This can, I believe, be circumvented by anyone who wishes to by
flying to another EU country then onward on a separate ticket, though
- there'd then only be a record of that individual trip.)
> [1] Although the original 'excuse' for fingerprinting arriving aliens
> was so they could use a kiosk to log their subsequent departure - a
> scheme that was trialled, but never deployed.
I used one of those in the trial (there were signs saying you must use
them, yet airline staff had no idea about them), and was surprised to
find them *not* present when I went to NY last week.
Neil
Roland Perry
Nov 2009, Ian Jackson <ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.demon.co.uk> remarked:
>I am tempted to say that it is this sort of unhealthy 'bonus culture'
>which has got the economy into the state it's in. One of the articles
>you refer to
><
>http://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/simon-calder-the-man
>-who-pays-his-way-495316.html>
>dates back to May 2005. It would appear that the bankers were merely
>'taking a leaf out of EasyJet's book'.
Shop assistants have been given rewards for talking stolen and mis-used
credit cards out of circulation for over 30 years (to my certain
knowledge, and long before the information was available 'online' at the
point of sale).
The Easyjet passport scheme seems to be an extension of such schemes to
rogue passports (where defacement is only an issue if it means the
passport looks as if it might have been deliberately altered, such as
de-lamination of the photo). These days most modern passports have the
photo printed on the pages, rather than laminated, so that risk is
clearly being reduced at source.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<2521ec56-1722-4973...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>, at
16:50:06 on Thu, 19 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:
>> Some airlines have people asking you security questions and check your
>> visa if appropriate while you are queuing at check-in, then put a
>> sticker on the outside of your passport to indicate that you have been
>> dealt with. I seem to remember this happening when flying to the US.
>
>US airlines tend to do this, and it's a good reason not to fly with
>them...
US airlines to tend to fly to the USA, I agree. An occupational hazard I
suppose.
ps Are you sure that airlines of other nationalities do not pre-screen
passengers going to the USA - I'd be very surprised, having been
pre-screened myself when flying to the USA on BA.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Nov 2009, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> remarked:
>>>Biggest risk of rejection is at check-in where someone is going to get
>>>an extra £5-15 in their pay packet if they stop you from flying.
>>
>> A good conspiracy theory, but the newspaper article takes an
>> over-cynical approach to this I think.
>
>Is it possible to be too cynical about airlines (especially "budget"
>ones)?
Yes, I think it is. People who are infrequent fliers are not the best
judges of what's "normal", or even what's "expected of them". I fly
regularly and although I've be caught red-handed trying to "push the
envelope [1] I can't say I've ever seen an incident where the airlines
were acting wrongly.
Part of the problem is passengers who appear to think they can flout the
rules (like the lady [2] *four* carryons who nevertheless was allowed on
my outbound Easyjet flight last week).
[1] Most often by having two carry-ons, but I always make sure that if
pressed one will fit inside the other and remain within the legal size).
[2] And it is almost always a lady, I'm afraid.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Jo Lonergan <jolon...@hotmail.com> remarked:
>Passport control at departure seems now to have been
>outsourced to the airlines.
Passport checking, yes.
But that's not "control", and nor did the previous official checks
assure you that your Visas for the destination country were in order.
I don't think the airlines are involved in the e-border outbound checks,
either, because until you go airside it's not certain you've actually
gone (although that doesn't seem to worry the equivalent scheme on
leaving USA).
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<6136884c-caad-45ec...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>, at
10:10:18 on Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:
Why complicate matters by having to cross-reference databases like that,
all over the world? Not every airport is a hive of sophisticated
computer gadgetry (nor do they bother to check in great detail
especially when the plane is already late), and you may also recall that
most airlines check boarding passes a second time at the door of the
aircraft, where it might be pouring with rain in a 3rd world country
with little usable connectivity.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<2512cefc-10d6-40f6...@d10g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, at
10:15:09 on Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:
>On 20 Nov, 08:40, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Indeed, the US doesn't seem to me to have the "outbound" e-borders
>> system [1] that they are rolling out in the UK.
>
>And it's that part of it I really dislike. Why does the Government
>have to be able to log where I'm going *to*? Why is it any of their
>business?
They appear to believe that they can identify people who spend long
periods abroad at various terrorist training centres. Or some horseman
like that. There is also perhaps some utility in tracking ex-pats who
are one the margins of being considered resident in the UK - for tax
purposes.
>(This can, I believe, be circumvented by anyone who wishes to by
>flying to another EU country then onward on a separate ticket, though
>- there'd then only be a record of that individual trip.)
Many things can be circumvented, but experience shows that not all
people who break the speed limit take the precaution of driving in a car
with false numberplates (for example).
>> [1] Although the original 'excuse' for fingerprinting arriving aliens
>> was so they could use a kiosk to log their subsequent departure - a
>> scheme that was trialled, but never deployed.
>
>I used one of those in the trial (there were signs saying you must use
>them, yet airline staff had no idea about them), and was surprised to
>find them *not* present when I went to NY last week.
I have never seen one, and the trial was discontinued long ago (>3yrs if
was guessing).
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>
>[sorry, attribution lost]
>>>>> Although the signs at airport immigration desks tell you to remove
>>>>>your passport from such wallets before showing it.
>...
>> They appeared at the airports I use about two years ago. Perhaps when it
>> became clear that they would be needing to read "chipped" passports at
>> the desk (rather than swiping the OCR strip), and wanted to minimise the
>> delay.
>
>AIUI, the RFIDs don't require physical contact, so they ought to be
>able to read them without taking them out of the covers.
But as you point out below, some covers are also shielding. Rules like
this don't tend to dive into the weeds by saying "please take out of
wallet if your passport has a chip in it) - the majority of people have
no idea if they have a chip, as evidenced by the blank looks when people
are faced with the new "auto entry" gates which can only be used with a
chipped passport.
>The disadvantage is that governments are making their citizens walking
>targets. It's possible to build a bomb that will be triggered by the
>proximity of a specific nationality's passport.
Which risks re-running the "how far away can you actually read these
RFID chips" saga again :(
>There are passport wallets available with RFID shielding.
Quite.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
<8d89b895-b492-46d5...@p35g2000yqh.googlegroups.com>, at
10:05:14 on Fri, 20 Nov 2009, Neil Williams <pace...@gmail.com>
remarked:
>On 19 Nov, 17:35, Adam Funk <a240...@ducksburg.com> wrote:
>
>> AIUI, the RFIDs don't require physical contact, so they ought to be
>> able to read them without taking them out of the covers.
>
>They aren't reading the RFID yet, I don't think - they appear to be
>using scanners to read the machine readable text. This is easier to
>line up without a cover on.
Several airports now have automatic gates (somewhat like the IRIS gates,
but without requiring pre-registration) that read the chips.
>> The disadvantage is that governments are making their citizens walking
>> targets. It's possible to build a bomb that will be triggered by the
>> proximity of a specific nationality's passport. There are passport
>> wallets available with RFID shielding.
>
>ISTR that the cover itself is shielded, and if the passport is closed
>it cannot be easily read. (Though this wouldn't be perfect, and would
>be vulnerable to a high-power reader).
How high power, though? The sort of power that would dim the lights as
the scanner was turned on (I have heard of people building such scanners
experimentally).
--
Roland Perry
John Whitworth
"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:UvslSCza...@perry.co.uk...
> In message <hduk86$1dl$1...@aioe.org>, at 16:55:05 on Tue, 17 Nov 2009,
> Road_Hog <nos...@nospam.com> remarked:
>>> I'd like to colour-code my family's passports to make it easier
>>> to sort them out quickly (since they all look the same on the
>>> outside). Would it be illegal to stick electrical tape on the
>>> outside covers?
>>>
>>> thanks
>>
>>Don't use tape, go to a stationers and pick up a page of those small
>>coloured stickers, usually circles, squares stars etc. The airlines use
>>the
>>circle ones themselves, that way if anyone ever did query it, you could
>>say
>>that it was from a previous flight.
>
> Actually, all the ones I've seen are small rectangles (about the size of a
> thumbnail).
My passport came back from getting a Saudi visa on it, with a little
circular green sticker on the back. Never had any trouble with it. Though
the Saudi visa itself did prompt some questions at New York passport
control! :-)
JW
Ian Jackson
<sexyjw@g_EEEEEEEEEEE_mail.com> writes
the purpose of your visit?" "XYZ", I replied (not literally, of course).
My passport contained a Saudi visa (large, stamped, and occupying a full
page). The Israelis were OK with passports bearing evidence of Arabian
visits (not vice versa), but visa stamp caught the lady's eye. "What was
the purpose of your visit?" "XYZ", I replied again. "OK" she replied
with a smile, and whacked an Israel entry stamp on the opposite page.
This would have precluded further entry to Arab countries using that
passport. [Apparently, if you catch them quickly enough, and talk nicely
to them, the Israelis will put their entry stamp on a sheet of paper,
and staple it inside your passport. This avoids having to get two
passports.]
--
Ian
Neil Williams
> ps Are you sure that airlines of other nationalities do not pre-screen
> passengers going to the USA - I'd be very surprised, having been
> pre-screened myself when flying to the USA on BA.
KLM didn't last week, but my observations suggested the US airlines at
AMS were doing.
Neil
Nobby Anderson
> This avoids having to get two passports.
Can you get two passports? I've never thought about it, but I guess it
might be useful.
Nobby
Ian Jackson
Anderson <no...@invalid.invalid> writes
need one). Some countries won't let you in if your passport has evidence
of visiting an 'enemy' country, Israel being the most popular 'enemy'.
--
Ian
Alex Heney
Getting an absolute grilling at check in isn't anything like the same
thing as:
"Some airlines have people asking you security questions and check
your visa if appropriate while you are queuing at check-in, then put a
sticker on the outside of your passport to indicate that you have been
dealt with. I seem to remember this happening when flying to the US."
I can understand that you might object to getting such a grilling, but
what S appeared to be talking about was just somebody pre-asking the
questions that are ALWAYS asked at check in, so that the process at
the actual desk will flow more quickly.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
It works better if you plug it in.
To reply by email, my address is alexATheneyDOTplusDOTcom
Alex Heney
In general, I don't think anything on the *outside* of the passport is
likely to be a problem unless it looks likely to have affected the
inside in some way.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but writing a single letter on the
cover, or putting a small coloured sticker on it are not likely to be
among those exceptions.
--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
I tried being reasonable once. I didn't like it.
Mike Tomlinson
<ne...@verdonet.organisation.unitedkingdom.invalid> writes
>Do they deign to tell you why?
They don't, which is why I ignore them. Last time I went through
Manchester I was shouted at (not politely asked) by an official to stop
using the phone. I ignored him too.
What really gets me about Manchester arrivals is the complete lack of
"Welcome to the UK" signs. At least, I've never noticed any. And the
white baggage hall is so cold and clinical; it's going to look very
scruffy and dated in just a few years.
--
(\__/)
(='.'=) Bunny says Windows 7 is Vi$ta reloaded.
(")_(") http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/windows_7.png
Adam Funk
I thought it sounded like a joke, but you never know.
Adam Funk
> In message <mfbgt6x...@news.ducksburg.com>, at 17:35:54 on Thu, 19
> Nov 2009, Adam Funk <a24...@ducksburg.com> remarked:
>>On 2009-11-18, Roland Perry wrote:
>>
>>[sorry, attribution lost]
>>>>>> Although the signs at airport immigration desks tell you to remove
>>>>>>your passport from such wallets before showing it.
>>...
>>> They appeared at the airports I use about two years ago. Perhaps when it
>>> became clear that they would be needing to read "chipped" passports at
>>> the desk (rather than swiping the OCR strip), and wanted to minimise the
>>> delay.
>>
>>AIUI, the RFIDs don't require physical contact, so they ought to be
>>able to read them without taking them out of the covers.
>
> But as you point out below, some covers are also shielding. Rules like
> this don't tend to dive into the weeds by saying "please take out of
> wallet if your passport has a chip in it) - the majority of people have
> no idea if they have a chip, as evidenced by the blank looks when people
> are faced with the new "auto entry" gates which can only be used with a
> chipped passport.
Part of Manchester now has big signs on the way to the immigration
desks showing the symbol and explaining that you can get through
faster using the automatic gates ... all of which were closed last
time I was there.
>>The disadvantage is that governments are making their citizens walking
>>targets. It's possible to build a bomb that will be triggered by the
>>proximity of a specific nationality's passport.
>
> Which risks re-running the "how far away can you actually read these
> RFID chips" saga again :(
>
>>There are passport wallets available with RFID shielding.
>
> Quite.
I believe the built-in shielding has been shown to be insufficient.
However, even if you have your passport in a shielded wallet,
officials with the right equipment should be able to read the RFID
just by opening the wallet and passport together and getting the
latter close to the sensor.
S
> On 19 Nov, 16:00, S <s_pickle2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
> > Some airlines have people asking you security questions and check your
> > visa if appropriate while you are queuing at check-in, then put a
> > sticker on the outside of your passport to indicate that you have been
> > dealt with. I seem to remember this happening when flying to the US.
>
> them...
>
An easily removable sticker on my passport is not a major issue for me.