Passport number required for airline tickets

[D.M. Procida]

This summer when I booked a ticket (on EasyJet) a passport number was
required, and I understood this was a legal requirement.

More recently, I have booked tickets, but I can't see any mention of
this, nor anywhere to enter the information.

Has the law changed? Or was this just a policy of the airline in the
first place?

Daniele

[Nightjar]

I had to provide a passport number, along with several other bits of
information, to book with BA a couple of weeks ago. However, I
understood that they would keep the information on record, so that I
wouldn't need to enter it again for future bookings.

Colin Bignell

[Neil Williams]

It's for "e-borders" purposes. If that hasn't been rolled out for your
destination, or your flight is domestic, for which purpose I think all of
Ireland is included, there is no requirement for it. It might also be that
you haven't printed boarding passes yet - on EZY you get asked for it then
I think. If, on easyJet, you have successfully printed your boarding pass
(and if you've changed your passport recently, it has either no passport
number or the correct one on it, and not the old one), everything is in
order.

Ryanair, OTOH, use it to verify their online boarding passes and so ask for
it anyway.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

[Jake]

"Neil Williams" <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote in message
news:1846040023372450516.635163we...@news.individual.net...

****

But they don't print this info on their boarding pass so it's impossible for
the gate staff to check the passport matches the boarding pass unless it's
scanned into the computer and checked this way, which I've never seen
happen, as I imagine it takes a lot of time.

I guess they just make a cursory visual check that the names match.

[Neil Williams]

"Jake" <Ja...@jakesplaice.com> wrote:

> But they don't print this info on their boarding pass

Last time I flew with them they did, but it was in a really hidden place,
possibly down the bottom somewhere, I forget.

easyJet do, it's under the passenger name.

[Jo Lonergan]

On Sat, 20 Oct 2012 21:00:04 +0100, Neil Williams
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:

>"Jake" <Ja...@jakesplaice.com> wrote:
>
>> But they don't print this info on their boarding pass
>
>Last time I flew with them they did, but it was in a really hidden place,
>possibly down the bottom somewhere, I forget.
>
>easyJet do, it's under the passenger name.
>

I recently flew from Madrid to Zurich, and as both were in the Schengen area
only had to show my passport at check-in. I presume this was so that the airline
could check that I was the person who had done the booking. It isn't all that
long ago that they didn't do this, and you could fly on anybody of the same
gender's ticket without their noticing.

--
Jo

[Neil Williams]

Jo Lonergan <jolon...@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I recently flew from Madrid to Zurich, and as both were in the Schengen area
> only had to show my passport at check-in. I presume this was so that the airline
> could check that I was the person who had done the booking.

Yep, commercial reasons, essentially, though often not quoted as such. It's
to prevent people buying up the cheap advance tickets and flogging them on
in the manner of gig tickets.

[D.M. Procida]

Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:

> Nightjar <c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk> wrote:
> > On 20/10/2012 13:00, D.M. Procida wrote:
> >> This summer when I booked a ticket (on EasyJet) a passport number was
> >> required, and I understood this was a legal requirement.
> >>
> >> More recently, I have booked tickets, but I can't see any mention of
> >> this, nor anywhere to enter the information.
> >>
> >> Has the law changed? Or was this just a policy of the airline in the
> >> first place?
> >
> > I had to provide a passport number, along with several other bits of
> > information, to book with BA a couple of weeks ago. However, I understood
> > that they would keep the information on record, so that I wouldn't need
> > to enter it again for future bookings.
>
> It's for "e-borders" purposes. If that hasn't been rolled out for your
> destination, or your flight is domestic, for which purpose I think all of
> Ireland is included, there is no requirement for it. It might also be that
> you haven't printed boarding passes yet - on EZY you get asked for it then
> I think. If, on easyJet, you have successfully printed your boarding pass
> (and if you've changed your passport recently, it has either no passport
> number or the correct one on it, and not the old one), everything is in
> order.

Well, the passport number was required when I helped someone with a
ticket from the UK to Switzerland, but for a ticket to Germany it
doesn't seem to be.

Daniele

[zaax]

On 20/10/2012 13:00, D.M. Procida wrote:

Spain needs your passport number before you arrive.

[Phi]

I was required to enter my passport number for a flight ticket to China, in
fact I could print out my boarding pass with the passport alone from one of
those automatic machines in departures.

[Neil Williams]

D.M. Procida <real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:

> Well, the passport number was required when I helped someone with a
> ticket from the UK to Switzerland, but for a ticket to Germany it
> doesn't seem to be.

Wouldn't surprise me if the extremely strict German data protection rules
prohibited it.

[Alex Heney]

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:30:05 +0100, Neil Williams
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:

>D.M. Procida <real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Well, the passport number was required when I helped someone with a
>> ticket from the UK to Switzerland, but for a ticket to Germany it
>> doesn't seem to be.
>
>Wouldn't surprise me if the extremely strict German data protection rules
>prohibited it.
>

I would be amazed if they did.

Particularly since some carriers do require it fro flights to Germany.

Many of the modern large carriers now prefer you to check in either
online or by use of the automated kiosks, and the latter are often
(possibly always, but I've only come across a few so can't be sure)
only usable if your passport number was given on the booking, as you
need to scan your passport to get the boarding pass with those.

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager
I'm not even going to ignore that.
To reply by email, my address is alexDOTheneyATgmailDOTcom

[Nick Odell]

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 21:35:02 +0100, Alex Heney <m...@privacy.net>
wrote:

>On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:30:05 +0100, Neil Williams
><wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>D.M. Procida <real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, the passport number was required when I helped someone with a
>>> ticket from the UK to Switzerland, but for a ticket to Germany it
>>> doesn't seem to be.
>>
>>Wouldn't surprise me if the extremely strict German data protection rules
>>prohibited it.
>>
>
>I would be amazed if they did.
>
>Particularly since some carriers do require it fro flights to Germany.
>
>Many of the modern large carriers now prefer you to check in either
>online or by use of the automated kiosks, and the latter are often
>(possibly always, but I've only come across a few so can't be sure)
>only usable if your passport number was given on the booking, as you
>need to scan your passport to get the boarding pass with those.

I think it is more likely based on names. Even people who don't have
to give a passport number have to give the name of the passenger "as
it appears on your passport." There was one year when my passport
number changed three times but unless you are Mr Jones departing on an
A380 from Cardiff chartered especially for a Jones family reunion in
Jonestown, Guyana, the chances of sharing an exact name match with
your other passengers is vanishingly small.

Nick

[BartC]

"Alex Heney" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:qjm888h0hbfcmdm4p...@4ax.com...

> On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:30:05 +0100, Neil Williams
> <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
>
>>D.M. Procida <real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, the passport number was required when I helped someone with a
>>> ticket from the UK to Switzerland, but for a ticket to Germany it
>>> doesn't seem to be.
>>
>>Wouldn't surprise me if the extremely strict German data protection rules
>>prohibited it.
>>
>
> I would be amazed if they did.
>
> Particularly since some carriers do require it fro flights to Germany.
>
> Many of the modern large carriers now prefer you to check in either
> online or by use of the automated kiosks, and the latter are often
> (possibly always, but I've only come across a few so can't be sure)
> only usable if your passport number was given on the booking, as you
> need to scan your passport to get the boarding pass with those.

I now use a national ID card to travel in Europe (I'm not a UK citizen).
This paper-based card is not machine readable (no chip, no barcode, no
stripe, and none of those character-recognition codes either with loads of
>>> characters). I'd imagine there must be a way of using such machines when
you don't have hi-tech ID.

--
bartc

[Simon Finnigan]

Italian ID? :-). The machines I've used have also accepted the six or seven
digit reservation number.

[Nightjar]

On 21/10/2012 21:35, Alex Heney wrote:
> On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 19:30:05 +0100, Neil Williams
> <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
>
>> D.M. Procida <real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>>> Well, the passport number was required when I helped someone with a
>>> ticket from the UK to Switzerland, but for a ticket to Germany it
>>> doesn't seem to be.
>>
>> Wouldn't surprise me if the extremely strict German data protection rules
>> prohibited it.
>>
>
> I would be amazed if they did.
>
> Particularly since some carriers do require it fro flights to Germany.
>
> Many of the modern large carriers now prefer you to check in either
> online or by use of the automated kiosks, and the latter are often
> (possibly always, but I've only come across a few so can't be sure)
> only usable if your passport number was given on the booking, as you
> need to scan your passport to get the boarding pass with those.

I normally book in online (which really upset a chap at Venice airport a
couple of months ago, as he thought that getting there early and queuing
for ages was the only way to get checked in first), but when I have used
the machines at the airport, they identified me by the credit card I had
used to make the booking.

Colin Bignell

[Andy Walker]

On 21/10/12 21:45, Nick Odell wrote:
> [... U]nless you are Mr Jones departing on an

> A380 from Cardiff chartered especially for a Jones family reunion in
> Jonestown, Guyana, the chances of sharing an exact name match with
> your other passengers is vanishingly small.

I don't think this is true. Based on processing names of
students in a reasonably large department, I'd guess that at least
10% of the lists contained duplicates [inc middle names, if any].
That was for around 200 students, so quite comparable with the
passenger lists for a moderately large aircraft. Of course, the
individuals would then have only a 1% chance of being one of the
duplicates, so roughly a 0.1% chance of being personally affected,
but that's still not "vanishingly small".

Presumably the chance is much smaller for someone called
[eg] "Odell", so many people can be quite blase about this; but
correspondingly it's much larger for those of us called "Walker".

--
Andy Walker,
Nottingham.

[Clive Page]

On 21/10/2012 21:45, Nick Odell wrote:

> I think it is more likely based on names. Even people who don't have
> to give a passport number have to give the name of the passenger "as
> it appears on your passport." There was one year when my passport
> number changed three times but unless you are Mr Jones departing on an
> A380 from Cardiff chartered especially for a Jones family reunion in
> Jonestown, Guyana, the chances of sharing an exact name match with
> your other passengers is vanishingly small.

That reminds me of a news story from many years ago about a male voice
choir which made a visit from Wales to East Germany. The East German
immigration authorities held them up for many hours because they simply
didn't believe that half of the choir had the surname Jones, and a good
many of those were called Dai Jones.

--
Clive Page

[Recorder]

It seems that the "requirement" to show your passport in a number of domestic situations is ever-increasing. It's the "backdoor" for the introduction of an ID-Card scheme which I personally do not hold with, as I simply do not trust any future government fully to honour my privacy or anonymity.

Only the other day my bank insisted that I showed my passport when transferring a substantial sum abroad. 40 years ago such a request for identity would NOT have been made. Indeed there is no obligation I should have a passport at all in this country. And why is my photo driving licence info now linked to my passport?

[Roland Perry]

In message <b3c8c6a1-ecb2-4bbb...@googlegroups.com>, at
15:25:03 on Tue, 23 Oct 2012, Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com> remarked:

>And why is my photo driving licence info now linked to my passport?

That's so they can use the passport photo and signature to make a photo
driving licence (online, no need to go have it all verified at a Post
Office).
--
Roland Perry

[BartC]

"Recorder" <cjdro...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:b3c8c6a1-ecb2-4bbb...@googlegroups.com...

> It seems that the "requirement" to show your passport in a number of
> domestic situations is ever-increasing. It's the "backdoor" for the
> introduction of an ID-Card scheme which I personally do not hold with, as
> I simply do not trust any future government fully to honour my privacy or
> anonymity.

Sometimes there is a need to show photo ID, for which a driving licence is
handy if you don't have your passport with you.

I don't find that unreasonable (for checking into accommodation for example,
which is standard in Europe).

And future governments (in collaboration with Google and Amazon) are going
to know everything about you anyway; they don't need everyone to have an ID
card. They just need people to use the internet, drive their cars, and use
their credit cards.

--
Bartc

[Caecilius]

On Mon, 22 Oct 2012 12:15:03 +0100, Andy Walker <ne...@cuboid.co.uk>
wrote:

> I don't think this is true. Based on processing names of
>students in a reasonably large department, I'd guess that at least
>10% of the lists contained duplicates [inc middle names, if any].
>That was for around 200 students

This is called the birthday paradox. In a group of people, it's much
more common to find matching pairs of names, birthdays etc. than you
would think. That's because the number of pairs of people in a group
grows very fast as the size of the group increases.

So for birthdays, where you've got 365 possibilities, you'd expect to
need about 365/2 people to have a 50% chance of two people sharing a
birthday. In fact, it's closer to sqrt(365).

[Alex Heney]

On Tue, 23 Oct 2012 15:25:03 +0100, Recorder <cjdro...@gmail.com>
wrote:

> And why is my photo driving licence info now linked to my passport?
>

Because you *chose* to have it linked.

It isn't unless you tick the appropriate box.

--
Alex Heney, Global Villager

Inertia makes the world go round.

[John Briggs]

Our statistics lecturer went through this for our class - and couldn't
quite work out why we were rolling about laughing. We had a set of twins
in the class...
--
John Briggs

[Nightjar]

On 23/10/2012 15:25, Recorder wrote:
> It seems that the "requirement" to show your passport in a number of domestic situations is ever-increasing. It's the "backdoor" for the introduction of an ID-Card scheme which I personally do not hold with, as I simply do not trust any future government fully to honour my privacy or anonymity.
>
> Only the other day my bank insisted that I showed my passport when transferring a substantial sum abroad. 40 years ago such a request for identity would NOT have been made.

50 years ago, passports had a section in the back where you had to
record how much money you were taking abroad. The maximum limit was £10.

Colin Bignell

[Lobster]

On 20/10/2012 13:00, D.M. Procida wrote:

> Has the law changed? Or was this just a policy of the airline in the
> first place?

I thought it was just another revenue generator - ie they hope you'll
fill it in wrong on the form, so that they can charge you £50 to change
it later...

David

[Graham Harrison]

"D.M. Procida" <real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk> wrote in
message
news:1ks9l9h.14v89hm1t2odgkN%real-not-anti...@apple-juice.co.uk...

> This summer when I booked a ticket (on EasyJet) a passport number was
> required, and I understood this was a legal requirement.
>
> More recently, I have booked tickets, but I can't see any mention of
> this, nor anywhere to enter the information.
>

> Has the law changed? Or was this just a policy of the airline in the
> first place?
>

> Daniele

This all started not long after 9/11. The Americans began to insist on
full names, passport numbers date of birth and the like. I think you'll
find that on flights to the USA the airline has to submit a list of
passenger names plus passport number, dob and (can't remember) before
departure. The US authorities then return an authority to proceed after
they have undertaken a preliminary screen. Once the aircraft is in flight
further checks occur which has, once or twice, resulted in aircraft having
to turn around or land in Canada (quite how the Canadians feel about that is
something I wonder about).

The UK now has similar requirements and we aren't the only country.

[Ken]

In article <eKSdnSklbqdkTRrN...@bt.com>, Graham Harrison
<edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> writes

A person flying to the USA would need to obtain an ESTA, so I would have
guessed that all the authorities would need is sufficient information to
match the passenger to the ESTA.


--
Ken

[Martin Bonner]

On Monday, October 22, 2012 12:28:51 PM UTC+1, Andy Walker wrote:
> On 21/10/12 21:45, Nick Odell wrote:
>
> > [... U]nless you are Mr Jones departing on an
> > A380 from Cardiff chartered especially for a Jones family reunion in
> > Jonestown, Guyana, the chances of sharing an exact name match with
> > your other passengers is vanishingly small.
>
> I don't think this is true. Based on processing names of
> students in a reasonably large department, I'd guess that at least
> 10% of the lists contained duplicates [inc middle names, if any].
> That was for around 200 students, so quite comparable with the
> passenger lists for a moderately large aircraft. Of course, the
> individuals would then have only a 1% chance of being one of the
> duplicates, so roughly a 0.1% chance of being personally affected,
> but that's still not "vanishingly small".

Fascinating question whether a plane is more likely to have a name clash than a student list.

On the one hand, grandparent + grandchild with identical name is quite a common pattern and much more likely on a plane than in a student list.

On the other, students will tend to have a slightly smaller range of first names (because the popularity of first names changes over time, and students tend to all be born at roughly the same time).

[Roland Perry]

In message <o5$4G+cyy...@dasha.demon.co.uk>, at 13:30:06 on Wed, 24
Oct 2012, Ken <K...@dasha.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>A person flying to the USA would need to obtain an ESTA,

That's just the most recent way of gathering the same information. As
ever, externalising the cost to the public.
--
Roland Perry

[Graham Harrison]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message
news:6DIHCHTL...@perry.co.uk...

The ESTA data is matched against the data submitted by the airline.
Remember, not all countries have ESTA agreements with the USA so there will
almost always be some visa holders as well as ESTA passengers on board.
Furthermore, intelligence information could, theoretically, attach itself to
a name between the time of ESTA/visa issue and date of travel.

[Roland Perry]

In message <eqidnZMJgMcciBXN...@bt.com>, at 17:25:03 on
Wed, 24 Oct 2012, Graham Harrison
<edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> remarked:

>The ESTA data is matched against the data submitted by the airline.
>Remember, not all countries have ESTA agreements with the USA so there
>will almost always be some visa holders as well as ESTA passengers on
>board. Furthermore, intelligence information could, theoretically,
>attach itself to a name between the time of ESTA/visa issue and date of
>travel.

Presumably the ESTA scope is much the same as the Visa-waiver. Or
perhaps they are synonymous now? I'm sure that the extra time helps the
US authorities. What happens if you arrive on the "wrong" plane (because
of delays, cancellations, missing a connection or whatever)?
--
Roland Perry

[Ken]

In article <bGWfjUH8...@perry.co.uk>, Roland Perry
<rol...@perry.co.uk> writes

That happened to me last year when fling to Rapid City via Chicago.
Chicago airport was shut (because of weather) and I ended up fling via
Minneapolis. I am happy to say that the system was able to cope with it.
--
Ken

[Graham Harrison]

"Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in message

news:bGWfjUH8...@perry.co.uk...

ESTA has replaced filling in the old Visa Waiver form on the plane (or at
least it did when we went to Seattle in Aug 2010 and Sept 2011). It also
means that you no longer have to look after the bottom bit of the visa
waiver form and hand it in when you leave. I had no problems having NOT
handed in a form (that I didn't have) when I left in September 2010 when I
arrived in September 2011).

As for wrong plane, can't happen (famous last words!). Every plane has to
have a passenger manifest - if you get offloaded from one and put on another
your name is transferred.

[the Omrud]

ESTA is valid for two years - it doesn't ask you when you are travelling.

--
David

[Roland Perry]

In message <kt2dnQoKC_TT-xTN...@bt.com>, at 17:20:02 on
Thu, 25 Oct 2012, Graham Harrison
<edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> remarked:

>ESTA has replaced filling in the old Visa Waiver form on the plane (or
>at least it did when we went to Seattle in Aug 2010 and Sept 2011). It
>also means that you no longer have to look after the bottom bit of the
>visa waiver form and hand it in when you leave.

What people often forget is that the [stated] reason they fingerprinted
aliens on entry to the USA post 9-11 was so they could match up the
prints with those taken at a self-service kiosk at the gate when you
flew home.

When the latter turned to dust, the former carried on.
--
Roland Perry

[Neil Williams]

the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:

> ESTA is valid for two years - it doesn't ask you when you are travelling.

It does, but you can change it without reapplying.

Neil
--
Neil Williams in Milton Keynes, UK. Put first name before the at to reply.

[the Omrud]

On 25/10/2012 18:40, Neil Williams wrote:
> the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> ESTA is valid for two years - it doesn't ask you when you are travelling.
>
> It does, but you can change it without reapplying.

Hmmm, that wasn't really my point. Once you've got an ESTA, it covers
you for any number of trips to the US as it's electronically associated
with your passport. You're not obliged to do anything ESTA-wise on
subsequent trips.

--
David

[Neil Williams]

the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> wrote:

> Hmmm, that wasn't really my point. Once you've got an ESTA, it covers
> you for any number of trips to the US as it's electronically associated
> with your passport. You're not obliged to do anything ESTA-wise on subsequent trips.

They ask you to update it each trip with the details you would put on the
old green card, but I believe you aren't required to.

[Ken]

In article <Xlfis.33719$vW7....@fx19.am4>, the Omrud
<usenet...@gmail.com> writes

I recall that I had to state the airport that I was travelling through.
The question arises as to whether a subsequent trip through a different
airport requires one to amend the data. In my case I did so, as a
precautionary measure, in the absence of any clear statement that I
didn't need to do so. It didn't cost anything to make the change.
--
Ken

[Lieutenant Scott]

On Sun, 21 Oct 2012 14:20:02 +0100, Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:

> Jo Lonergan <jolon...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I recently flew from Madrid to Zurich, and as both were in the Schengen area
>> only had to show my passport at check-in. I presume this was so that the airline
>> could check that I was the person who had done the booking.
>
> Yep, commercial reasons, essentially, though often not quoted as such. It's
> to prevent people buying up the cheap advance tickets and flogging them on
> in the manner of gig tickets.

Why should they care if they do? They sell them cheap to fill the plane, which would still happen.

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

What do you call an Amish man with his arm up a horse's ass?
A mechanic.

[Roland Perry]

In message <op.wmqy2hzwytk5n5@i7-940>, at 19:35:01 on Thu, 25 Oct 2012,
Lieutenant Scott <n...@spam.com> remarked:

>>> I recently flew from Madrid to Zurich, and as both were in the Schengen area
>>> only had to show my passport at check-in. I presume this was so that the airline
>>> could check that I was the person who had done the booking.
>>
>> Yep, commercial reasons, essentially, though often not quoted as such. It's
>> to prevent people buying up the cheap advance tickets and flogging them on
>> in the manner of gig tickets.
>
>Why should they care if they do? They sell them cheap to fill the plane, which would still happen.

Yield management is a complex art, and would be disrupted if all the
very cheapest tickets were never available to public on account of being
snapped up by touts. And of course the touts will be making a profit,
and the airline could reasonably argue that if the touts are getting
more than what they paid for the tickets, so could the airline.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message
<1558420782372886304.042295we...@news.individual
.net>, at 23:05:02 on Thu, 25 Oct 2012, Neil Williams
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:

>> Hmmm, that wasn't really my point. Once you've got an ESTA, it covers
>> you for any number of trips to the US as it's electronically associated
>> with your passport. You're not obliged to do anything ESTA-wise on subsequent trips.
>
>They ask you to update it each trip with the details you would put on the
>old green card, but I believe you aren't required to.

"Green Card" has a rather specific meaning for US Immigration (it's
actually a white credit card sized thing these days). I expect you mean
the green Visa Waver form I-94W.
--
Roland Perry

[Ken]

In article <1s80JmbU...@perry.co.uk>, Roland Perry
<rol...@perry.co.uk> writes

Arbitrage is considered by economists to be a good thing because it
makes markets more efficient, reducing a suppliers ability to segment
markets and helps to prevent suppliers from making super normal profits.
When it had done its job the arbitrageur goes out of business or
arbitrages something else.

In some industries a government agency has been given a duty to promote
competition and may be interpreted as protecting the long term existence
of arbitrageurs, a situation that would never happen in the wild.

--
Ken

[Neil Williams]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:

> "Green Card" has a rather specific meaning for US Immigration (it's
> actually a white credit card sized thing these days). I expect you mean
> the green Visa Waver form I-94W.

I indeed do, that's why I referred to a green card (which it is, it is a
green piece of card) rather than a Green Card, which it isn't.

[Graham Murray]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes:

> Yield management is a complex art, and would be disrupted if all the
> very cheapest tickets were never available to public on account of
> being snapped up by touts. And of course the touts will be making a
> profit, and the airline could reasonably argue that if the touts are
> getting more than what they paid for the tickets, so could the
> airline.

One solution to that problem would be to charge more the further in
advance that you book - so that you pay more for the assurance of being
able to travel on the dates/times you want. Then reduce prices as it
comes closer to departure time. That way the traveller has the choice of
paying more and being assured of when (s)he can fly or waiting and
paying less but with the risk that your preferred flight might already
be fully booked and you have to travel on a different day/time.

[Lieutenant Scott]

Managers. [Shakes head]

--
http://petersparrots.com
http://petersphotos.com

"It was reported last week that a citizen's group is trying to remove porn channels from hotels across the country."
"The group is called the Coalition of People Who Want to Ruin Everything."

[roy.st...@gmail.com]

On Friday, October 26, 2012 3:40:07 AM UTC-4, Roland Perry wrote:
> "Green Card" has a rather specific meaning for US Immigration (it's
> actually a white credit card sized thing these days).

The very latest iteration is (mostly) green again.
--
Roy

[the Omrud]

That used to happen. In the late 70s I could go to Heathrow and ask BA
for a ticket to New York on today's flight. If they had any left, they
tended to be sold for £50, on the grounds that nobody else was likely to
buy one at that stage.

--
David

[Roland Perry]

In message <mbXBxbGi...@dasha.demon.co.uk>, at 10:00:04 on Fri, 26

Oct 2012, Ken <K...@dasha.demon.co.uk> remarked:

>>Yield management is a complex art, and would be disrupted if all the
>>very cheapest tickets were never available to public on account of
>>being snapped up by touts. And of course the touts will be making a
>>profit, and the airline could reasonably argue that if the touts are
>>getting more than what they paid for the tickets, so could the airline.
>
>Arbitrage is considered by economists to be a good thing because it
>makes markets more efficient, reducing a suppliers ability to segment
>markets and helps to prevent suppliers from making super normal profits.
>When it had done its job the arbitrageur goes out of business or
>arbitrages something else.

That's the first time I've heard ticket touts called "arbitrage". Did
LOCOG welcome this particular efficiency measure for 2012?
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <878vatn...@einstein.gmurray.org.uk>, at 17:10:10 on Fri,
26 Oct 2012, Graham Murray <news...@gmurray.org.uk> remarked:

Some airlines did have yield management like that in the past, but these
days they seem to have decided that a better strategy is to steadily
increase the prices as the plane fills up, such that the plane is
exactly full when it finally departs.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <mDDis.42333$YJ1....@fx09.am4>, at 22:55:02 on Fri, 26 Oct
2012, the Omrud <usenet...@gmail.com> remarked:

>> One solution to that problem would be to charge more the further in
>> advance that you book - so that you pay more for the assurance of being
>> able to travel on the dates/times you want. Then reduce prices as it
>> comes closer to departure time. That way the traveller has the choice of
>> paying more and being assured of when (s)he can fly or waiting and
>> paying less but with the risk that your preferred flight might already
>> be fully booked and you have to travel on a different day/time.
>
>That used to happen. In the late 70s I could go to Heathrow and ask BA
>for a ticket to New York on today's flight. If they had any left, they
>tended to be sold for £50, on the grounds that nobody else was likely
>to buy one at that stage.

"Standby" (on the day) was used by many airlines, but BA also had what
they called a "24hr fare", which iirc was purchasable the day before a
flight for the very best price.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message
<324567954372943432.065254we...@news.individual.
net>, at 12:30:04 on Fri, 26 Oct 2012, Neil Williams
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> remarked:

>> "Green Card" has a rather specific meaning for US Immigration (it's
>> actually a white credit card sized thing these days). I expect you mean
>> the green Visa Waver form I-94W.
>
>I indeed do, that's why I referred to a green card (which it is, it is a
>green piece of card) rather than a Green Card, which it isn't.

Unless everyone is up to speed on conventions such as that (and I'm not
sure they are) it's best to avoid possible confusion by using explicit
wording, especially in a legal context.
--
Roland Perry