Puddle on public road flooding my driveway

[WeeBob]

There is a large puddle on the public road outside my house.

OK, there is a lot of rain at the moment, but this puddle is becoming
near permanent and I suspect it is because the drainage on the road is
insufficient. i.e. there is no generalised flooding here.

Recently, the puddle has started overflowing into my driveway, which is
lower than the height of the road. It's like a channel has been washed
away and so the puddle drains into my driveway.

Do the local council have any responsibility in this regard?

(Or do I just dig up the driveway and put a soak-away in?

Thanks & regards

[Stephen Wolstenholme]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 13:55:05 +0000, WeeBob <use...@null.invalid>
wrote:

You need Highway Drainage in your local council. In my last house I
was dependent on the road drainage keeping my drive drained as well.
The responsibility got a bit complicated as there is some rule about
shared drainage for more than one property. One only and you may get a
bill, two or more and it's free!

Steve

--
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[David L. Martel]

Bob,

It's impossible to tell from your description where the responsibility
lies. Give the local government a call and see if they'll do anything. If
they tell you it's not their problem, then hire an engineer to suggest a
solution and give an opinion on responsibilty.

Good luck,
Dave M.

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <lbb5m3$lu5$1...@dont-email.me>, use...@null.invalid says...

Ignoring the legal aspects.

Is there a blocked drain somewhere under (or upstream of) that puddle?

If so, a couple of minutes spent unblocking it would be a lot less
hassle than chasing the LA.

--
Sam

[Nightjar]

On 17/01/2014 20:28, Sam Plusnet wrote:
....

> Ignoring the legal aspects.
>
> Is there a blocked drain somewhere under (or upstream of) that puddle?
>
> If so, a couple of minutes spent unblocking it would be a lot less
> hassle than chasing the LA.

While it won't do any harm to look, street drains are designed to be
difficult to block and, when they do, it usually needs a gulley cleaning
lorry to vacuum them out.

Colin Bignell

[Tim Watts]

Street drains usually have a large (large bucket or even half a water
butt sized) bottle trap to catch the vast quantity of stones, grit and
leaves that go down them - being preferable to hoover a few drains out
periodically rather than bugger up the sewer or overload the sewerage
plant (where applicable) with junk or discharge excessive solid matter
into open waterways (that are much more effort to dredge).

You could probably make an impact on a blocked road drain with some sort
of long large ladel, eg. a metal paint can bolted to a broomstick. It
does depend on the design of the particular drain.

Personally, I'd call the council first - chances are they could easily
send a drain vacuuming lorry out and they'd probably prefer people
didn't fiddle with the drains.

--
Tim Watts Personal Blog: http://squiddy.blog.dionic.net/

http://www.sensorly.com/ Crowd mapping of 2G/3G/4G mobile signal
coverage

[Sam Plusnet]

In article <dr8qqa-...@squidward.local.dionic.net>,
tw+u...@dionic.net says...

The drain just uphill from our house blocks every year - leaf litter
plus assorted detritus.
5 minutes spent clearing this muck away from the surface of the drain
makes a significant reduction in the surface water which floods over my
property.

--
Sam

[Tim Watts]

On Saturday 18 January 2014 16:01 Sam Plusnet wrote in
uk.legal.moderated:

> The drain just uphill from our house blocks every year - leaf litter
> plus assorted detritus.
> 5 minutes spent clearing this muck away from the surface of the drain
> makes a significant reduction in the surface water which floods over
> my property.

If that's the main problem, I agree. I clear the silt out from the
gratings outside my house occasionally.

[Judith]

I wonder what equipment you think will be needed to clear the blockage - and
whether you would be responsible if you caused damage to the drainage system or
caused an accident on the public Highway whilst being the Good Samaritan.

I would suggest informing the local authority - perhaps the local councillors
as well - reminding them of their statutory obligations.

[Judith]

On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 16:51:48 +0000, "David L. Martel" <mart...@frontier.com>
wrote:

>Bob,
>
> It's impossible to tell from your description where the responsibility
>lies. Give the local government a call and see if they'll do anything. If
>they tell you it's not their problem, then hire an engineer

If they tell you it's not their problem - I would not just accept that at face
value.

See:
http://www.wrighthassall.co.uk/articles/2010/08/13/highways-authorities-have-statutory-duty-unblock-d/

A recent Court of Appeal judgment in the case of the Department for Transport,
Environment and the Regions v Mott MacDonald Ltd, Amey Mouchel Ltd and Cornwall
County Council [2006 27th July], has confirmed that the statutory duty imposed
on highway authorities to maintain highways that are maintainable at the public
expense, does extend to repairing and maintaining drains beneath the surface of
the road.

It was further held the duty to repair is not limited to fixing defective
drains but extends to clearing blockages. This might mean clearing blocked
drains but it may also mean dealing with the consequences of inadequate
drainage.

This is quite an important decision for local authorities and their
contractors, making it clear that the law has not changed since the landmark
ruling case of Burnside v Emerson in 1968, despite the fact that the judge at
first instance (HH Judge Richard Seymour Q.C.) had been (wrongly) persuaded
that case had been overruled in Goodes v East Sussex County Council by the
House of Lords in 2000.

[Percy Picacity]

In article <1tald9pj8gm2bpabq...@4ax.com>,

I largely agree with you. But it turns out that the person who
suggested a diy approach was talking about cleaning leaves off the
surface of the grid, rather than anything more invasive. In country
districts, where the grids can get blocked by leaves every other day,
and there is not a great deal of traffic, it does seem reasonable to run
a shovel over them occasionally.

I suspect the OP's problem is more fundamental, though.

--

Percy Picacity

[Cash]

Judith wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Jan 2014 20:28:01 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>
>> In article <lbb5m3$lu5$1...@dont-email.me>, use...@null.invalid says...
>>>
>>> There is a large puddle on the public road outside my house.
>>>
>>> OK, there is a lot of rain at the moment, but this puddle is
>>> becoming near permanent and I suspect it is because the drainage on
>>> the road is insufficient. i.e. there is no generalised flooding
>>> here.
>>>
>>> Recently, the puddle has started overflowing into my driveway,
>>> which is lower than the height of the road. It's like a channel has
>>> been washed away and so the puddle drains into my driveway.
>>>
>>> Do the local council have any responsibility in this regard?
>>>
>>> (Or do I just dig up the driveway and put a soak-away in?
>>>
>>> Thanks & regards
>>
>> Ignoring the legal aspects.
>>
>> Is there a blocked drain somewhere under (or upstream of) that
>> puddle?
>>
>> If so, a couple of minutes spent unblocking it would be a lot less
>> hassle than chasing the LA.
>
>
> I wonder what equipment you think will be needed to clear the
> blockage - and whether you would be responsible if you caused damage
> to the drainage system or caused an accident on the public Highway
> whilst being the Good Samaritan.

With leaf litter and such-like on the top of the grating, a shovel will
scrape it off and resolve the problem - or you can even do it with your foot
or hands.

If that fails, then I would advise that you go no firther than that, other
than to contact the LA.

As for damaging the drainage system or causing an accident on the highway by
clearing leaf litter etc off the grating - there is no chance of that
whatsoever.

In reality, there's more chance of an 'accident' causing damage of injury
when a vehicle hits the puddle at speed - and the legal question then would
be who was to blame. Would it be the driver for careless driving (or
something similar), or the LA for not clearing the drains as soon as they
become blocked?

> I would suggest informing the local authority - perhaps the local
> councillors as well - reminding them of their statutory obligations.

In severe weather situations, you will fine that the LA would prioritise
these calls on a fairly strict basis [1] as they won't have the manpower or
equipment to cover every situation within an hour of the call (their normal
emergency response time IIRC).

[1] You can if you wish, ask your LA for a sight of the emergency plans
for such situations as these wil give the criteria for what they prioritise
(and that can be an eye-opener for the uninitiated).

Cash

[WeeBob]

Thanks for all the replies. You've given me a lot to work with.

Again, thanks.