Obtaining criminal records for deceased individual
Tristan Miller
I'm writing a short biography of a recently deceased individual. According
to interviews with his friends and colleagues, he was convicted on some
sort of child molestation charge in the late 1970s, and spent several years
in prison. Is there any way I can get official records relating to his
trial or conviction? I have the gentleman's name, date of birth (and
death), and last address. I am interested in learning, at the least, the
exact charge and the dates of his trial and imprisonment. Would such
information be published anywhere, or available from any government office?
Regards,
Tristan
--
_
_V.-o Tristan Miller >< Space is limited
/ |`-' -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- <> In a haiku, so it's hard
(7_\\ http://www.nothingisreal.com/ >< To finish what you
Owain
> I'm writing a short biography of a recently deceased individual. According
> to interviews with his friends and colleagues, he was convicted on some
> sort of child molestation charge in the late 1970s, and spent several years
> in prison. Is there any way I can get official records relating to his
> trial or conviction? I have the gentleman's name, date of birth (and
> death), and last address. I am interested in learning, at the least, the
> exact charge and the dates of his trial and imprisonment. Would such
> information be published anywhere, or available from any government office?
Such a trial would probably have been covered in the local press, so
if you know the area he was living in at the time then a newspaper
search might be useful. There are probably specialist agencies who
search for such things.
Owain
Tristan Miller
In article <70af830b-8c29-4765-
a88f-92a...@b7g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>, Owain wrote:
Yes, that had occurred to me. However, searching through months' or years'
worth of local papers could be much more costly and/or time-consuming than
simply writing to the appropriate court/criminal records bureau, who
probably have their files indexed by the convict's name. Nonetheless, if
that's the only option, then I'd be happy to take recommendations for
agencies who do this sort of thing.
chrisj...@proemail.co.uk
> Greetings.
>
> In article <70af830b-8c29-4765-
I suggest you'll get more practical assistance on a genealogy NG, such
as soc.genealogy.britain.
You could start by contacting the Local Studies Library/Archives of
the area in question. You'll find it via the local authority website,
or Google "Sometown Local Studies". They may well have a newspaper
index, and most do quick lookups free, or longer searches for around
£25 per hour.
If you want to do the search yourself, it only takes an hour or two to
skim through a year's newspapers on microfilm. To be of any use,
you'll be looking for a major article which will stand out.
If it was a big enough case to make the nationals, several of them are
available online, often free via your local library subscription.
Chris
Steve Walker
> Greetings.
>
> I'm writing a short biography of a recently deceased individual.
> According to interviews with his friends and colleagues, he was
> convicted on some sort of child molestation charge in the late 1970s,
> and spent several years in prison. Is there any way I can get official
> records relating to his trial or conviction? I have the gentleman's
> name, date of birth (and death), and last address. I am interested in
> learning, at the least, the exact charge and the dates of his trial and
> imprisonment. Would such information be published anywhere, or
> available from any government office?
>
> Regards,
> Tristan
If you have the co-operation of his family, next of kin or executor, you
might find it worthwhile to ask them to write to the Prison Service
requesting details of his detention.
Tristan Miller
In article <7usp4c...@mid.individual.net>, Steve Walker wrote:
>> I'm writing a short biography of a recently deceased individual.
>> According to interviews with his friends and colleagues, he was
>> convicted on some sort of child molestation charge in the late 1970s,
>> and spent several years in prison. Is there any way I can get official
>> records relating to his trial or conviction? I have the gentleman's
>> name, date of birth (and death), and last address. I am interested in
>> learning, at the least, the exact charge and the dates of his trial and
>> imprisonment. Would such information be published anywhere, or
>> available from any government office?
>
> If you have the co-operation of his family, next of kin or executor, you
> might find it worthwhile to ask them to write to the Prison Service
> requesting details of his detention.
Unfortunately, I do not. Is it legal for the Prison Service to release
such records to a third-party enquirer such as myself?
I understand that criminal and prison records of living individuals are
normally off-limits to the public, but I have no idea what the rules are
for records of deceased individuals.
Steve Walker
> Greetings.
>
> In article <7usp4c...@mid.individual.net>, Steve Walker wrote:
>>> I'm writing a short biography of a recently deceased individual.
>>> According to interviews with his friends and colleagues, he was
>>> convicted on some sort of child molestation charge in the late 1970s,
>>> and spent several years in prison. Is there any way I can get official
>>> records relating to his trial or conviction? I have the gentleman's
>>> name, date of birth (and death), and last address. I am interested in
>>> learning, at the least, the exact charge and the dates of his trial and
>>> imprisonment. Would such information be published anywhere, or
>>> available from any government office?
>>
>> If you have the co-operation of his family, next of kin or executor, you
>> might find it worthwhile to ask them to write to the Prison Service
>> requesting details of his detention.
>
> Unfortunately, I do not. Is it legal for the Prison Service to release
> such records to a third-party enquirer such as myself?
I'm sure they could find a lawful basis upon which to assist your research
if they wished to do so. However it is vanishingly unlikely that they will
wish to do so, unless you have senior connections who can support your bona
fides.
Mr X
"Steve Walker" <spam...@beeb.net> wrote in message
news:7utoji...@mid.individual.net...
organisations take this as a license to give out what was once confidential
information to unconnected people, although things may be different to the
family of the deceased.
Tristan Miller
If there is no Data Protection, then wouldn't such information be available
on request to anyone under the Freedom of Information Act?
Steve Walker
> Greetings.
Mmm, it's not quite that simple. Certain *rights* under the Data Protection
Act can only be exercised by living persons, but most of the protections and
principles contained in that Act do not expire upon death. An application
for another person's sensitive personal data under Freedom of Information
Act would undoubtedly fail.
As I said above, without help from the subject's next-of-kin your best hope
is to be recognised by the Prison Service as a responsible professional
historian/researcher. Such people are often given access to state
archives, under a non-disclosure agreement. Academics do this all the
time, but they have the reputation of a university behind them.
Tristan Miller
In article <7uvaaf...@mid.individual.net>, Steve Walker wrote:
>> If there is no Data Protection, then wouldn't such information be
>> available on request to anyone under the Freedom of Information Act?
>
> Mmm, it's not quite that simple. Certain *rights* under the Data
> Protection Act can only be exercised by living persons, but most of the
> protections and
> principles contained in that Act do not expire upon death. An
> application for another person's sensitive personal data under Freedom of
> Information Act would undoubtedly fail.
>
> As I said above, without help from the subject's next-of-kin your best
> hope is to be recognised by the Prison Service as a responsible
> professional
> historian/researcher. Such people are often given access to state
> archives, under a non-disclosure agreement. Academics do this all the
> time, but they have the reputation of a university behind them.
Academics cite their sources when publishing, which purpose is defeated by
a non-disclosure agreement. What good is access to records for a historian
if he can't disclose their contents in his published works?
At any rate, through further interviews with his colleagues I've discovered
the name of the prison in which the gentleman in question was incarcerated,
and have written to them on the off chance that they can give me any
details.
Steve Walker
> Academics cite their sources when publishing, which purpose is defeated
> by a non-disclosure agreement. What good is access to records for a
> historian if he can't disclose their contents in his published works?
The NDA usually gives the source a right of approval over what is published.
Kevin Ashley
> Tristan Miller wrote:
>> Greetings.
>>
>> In article <hmd8d5$3tc$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>, Mr X wrote:
>
>>> I thought there was no Data Protection after death, but very few
>>> organisations take this as a license to give out what was once
>>> confidential information to unconnected people, although things may be
>>> different to the family of the deceased.
>> If there is no Data Protection, then wouldn't such information be
>> available on request to anyone under the Freedom of Information Act?
>
> Mmm, it's not quite that simple. Certain *rights* under the Data Protection
> Act can only be exercised by living persons, but most of the protections and
> principles contained in that Act do not expire upon death. An application
> for another person's sensitive personal data under Freedom of Information
> Act would undoubtedly fail.
>
That is completely contrary to my understanding of Data Protection. All
your rights to privacy are extinguished by death; after that time what
was once sensitive personal information about you becomes simple information
held by the state and subject to disclosure under FoI. (This is how the
records from the 1911 census were forced to be disclosed earlier than
had been planned.)
That doesn't mean that all the information held will be disclosed, though.
It's possible that other individuals - still living - are identified in
the records, and the data protection principles still apply to them.
If Y molested a member of his family, for instance, then even after
Y's death the details of the offence - and the name of the offender -
may be protected, since the victim is entitled to privacy. Had Y
been guilty of a wide range of other offences it is unlikely that
this would apply.
You are entitled to the information, if it is still held, and if you
can work out who holds the information.
Martin Bonner
> That is completely contrary to my understanding of Data Protection. All
> your rights to privacy are extinguished by death; after that time what
> was once sensitive personal information about you becomes simple information
> held by the state and subject to disclosure under FoI. (This is how the
> records from the 1911 census were forced to be disclosed earlier than
> had been planned.)
That's strange, because there are about 10,000 people still alive who
were born before 1911. Filtering their information out would be - a
challenge.
Steve Walker
> Steve Walker wrote:
>> Tristan Miller wrote:
>>> Greetings.
>>>
>>> In article <hmd8d5$3tc$1...@news.ox.ac.uk>, Mr X wrote:
>>
>>>> I thought there was no Data Protection after death, but very few
>>>> organisations take this as a license to give out what was once
>>>> confidential information to unconnected people, although things may be
>>>> different to the family of the deceased.
>>> If there is no Data Protection, then wouldn't such information be
>>> available on request to anyone under the Freedom of Information Act?
>>
>> Mmm, it's not quite that simple. Certain *rights* under the Data
>> Protection Act can only be exercised by living persons, but most of the
>> protections and principles contained in that Act do not expire upon
>> death. An application for another person's sensitive personal data
>> under Freedom of Information Act would undoubtedly fail.
>
> That is completely contrary to my understanding of Data Protection. All
> your rights to privacy are extinguished by death; after that time what
> was once sensitive personal information about you becomes simple
> information held by the state and subject to disclosure under FoI.
Really? So I could demand a copy of Princess Diana's complete NHS medical
records, and the full Police & Prison Service files relating to Reggie Kray?
I could serve a simple FOI and receive Alexander McQueen's full tax records
from the Inland Revenue?
Somehow I don't think it's that simple Kevin, but if you want to prove your
point why don't you obtain the above records under FOI and upload them to
the web - I will then gladly celebrate your achievement and/or eat my hat as
preferred... :o)
Tristan Miller
Funny you should mention Reggie Kray in this context. On page 22 of
today's Evening Standard there's an article about Ronnie Kray's criminal
record, which has recently been rediscovered by the Durham Police. The
article has a photograph of the front page of the file (which includes his
vital statistics and mug shots), and quotes from other parts of it. It
ends by indicating that the police will be putting the file in a museum.
Given what you say about the data protection accorded to the deceased, how
is it that a newspaper has been able to obtain and publish portions of
Kray's criminal record, and how is it that the criminal record in whole is
to be deposited in a museum, presumably on public display? Is the only
possibly explanation that Kray's next of kin has consented to all this?
Steve Walker
> Funny you should mention Reggie Kray in this context. On page 22 of
> today's Evening Standard there's an article about Ronnie Kray's criminal
> record, which has recently been rediscovered by the Durham Police. The
> article has a photograph of the front page of the file (which includes
> his vital statistics and mug shots), and quotes from other parts of it.
> It ends by indicating that the police will be putting the file in a
> museum.
>
> Given what you say about the data protection accorded to the deceased,
> how is it that a newspaper has been able to obtain and publish portions
> of Kray's criminal record, and how is it that the criminal record in
> whole is to be deposited in a museum, presumably on public display? Is
> the only possibly explanation that Kray's next of kin has consented to
> all this?
Yes, I saw that article - initially seemed odd that Durham Police would have
a 'file' on a cockney villain, but on closer reading it seems it was just an
intel briefing. The Police spokesman only describes it as a 'document'
(but it clearly includes sensitive personal data).
I think this episode underlines my point made earlier that if the relevant
authorities wish to be helpful, or if it suits their PR agenda, then they
certainly can release historical records (I doubt that they have family
consent in this instance).
But I don't think it changes anything in respect of your right to *demand*
that the Prison Service releases sensitive personal data about your
biography subject. Ultimately the easiest and quickest way to test that is
to send in a FOI request, and see what happens.
Good luck, and keep us informed!
Tristan Miller
In article <news:7v97sh...@mid.individual.net>, Steve Walker wrote:
> Tristan Miller wrote:
>> Given what you say about the data protection accorded to the deceased,
>> how is it that a newspaper has been able to obtain and publish portions
>> of Kray's criminal record, and how is it that the criminal record in
>> whole is to be deposited in a museum, presumably on public display? Is
>> the only possibly explanation that Kray's next of kin has consented to
>> all this?
>
> Yes, I saw that article - initially seemed odd that Durham Police would
> have a 'file' on a cockney villain, but on closer reading it seems it was
> just an
> intel briefing. The Police spokesman only describes it as a 'document'
> (but it clearly includes sensitive personal data).
>
> I think this episode underlines my point made earlier that if the
> relevant authorities wish to be helpful, or if it suits their PR agenda,
> then they certainly can release historical records (I doubt that they
> have family consent in this instance).
>
> But I don't think it changes anything in respect of your right to
> *demand* that the Prison Service releases sensitive personal data about
> your
> biography subject. Ultimately the easiest and quickest way to test that
> is to send in a FOI request, and see what happens.
>
> Good luck, and keep us informed!
OK, I got a letter back from the prison. It's neither good news nor bad
news; they say simply that they don't keep records on prisoners longer than
20 years, and direct me to the National Archives in Kew.
You can see a scan of the letter at
<http://files.nothingisreal.com/tmp/hmp_brixton.png>.
the Omrud
> OK, I got a letter back from the prison. It's neither good news nor bad
> news; they say simply that they don't keep records on prisoners longer than
> 20 years, and direct me to the National Archives in Kew.
>
> You can see a scan of the letter at
So what is the actual role of a "Head of Business Change and Delivery"
in a prison?
--
David
Tristan Miller
In article <news:2201191.a...@ID-187157.News.Individual.NET>, Tristan
Miller wrote:
> In article <news:7v97sh...@mid.individual.net>, Steve Walker wrote:
>>
>> Good luck, and keep us informed!
>
> OK, I got a letter back from the prison. It's neither good news nor bad
> news; they say simply that they don't keep records on prisoners longer
> than 20 years, and direct me to the National Archives in Kew.
>
> You can see a scan of the letter at
> <http://files.nothingisreal.com/tmp/hmp_brixton.png>.
OK, for anyone still following this thread, I wrote to and received a reply
from the National Archives. You can see a scan of the letter at
<http://files.nothingisreal.com/tmp/nationalarchives1.png> and
<http://files.nothingisreal.com/tmp/nationalarchives2.png>.
They state that they do not hold prison records for the period in question,
though they do hold the Home Office Calendar of Prisoners up to 1971, which
gives basic details on cases (name, age, previous convictions, identity of
committing magistrates, date of warrant, when received into custody,
offence as charged, date of trial, before whom tried, verdict of jury, and
sentence or order of court). They also hold some court records for Assize
Courts and Crown Courts. Other archives are held by the London
Metropolitan Archives. They suggest the best thing to do is to narrow down
the date and place of the trial, as this will make searching the records
much easier.
So for me I suppose the next thing to do is to contact his colleagues again
to pinpoint the trial date, and then resume my archive enquiries.