Insane Private Road Charges
Nexmilitis
I hope someone can advise me on how to respond to a bill I have
received.
We live on a private road that we share with around 12 households and 2
businesses - a garden centre and a golf centre. Today we received a
bill for nearly �1000 for the past two years in maintenance yet little
other that cutting the grass verges has happened in that time.
To make matters worse, they seem to be charging the private residents
based on some caculation on distance from the main road. This has left
one household with a bill of �7000!
In our deeds it states we have a:
"right of way with or without vehicles at all times and for all
purposes over and along the private driveway leading from <the main
road> to the property upon the Purchaser being responsible for paying a
contribution towards the maintenance and repair of the road including
the grass verges adjacent thereto and the hedges bordering the
same..."
Now the fact it simply states, "paying a contribution towards the
maintenance and repair" and does not state how it is calculated either
leaves us in a position of power or weakness and I do not know which!
Could we simply pay what we think is a 'fair' amount or show how we
think the charge should be calculated?
We know that 2 years ago we were asked to pay �300 for retrospective
maintenance (we should not have paid as there had been none!), and at
this time the garden centre which must have several hundred cars pass
along the road during the summer especially was only asked to pay
�1,000 - hardly fair to those of us with one or two family cars.
To add insult to injury the 'invoice' states that if we do not pay
within 30 days interest at 8% will be charged!
The private road and verges are owned by one of our neighbours who have
been carrying out a campaign of harassment in one form or another
against all households for the past two years so the bill really sticks
in the throat.
Sorry about the long post but I hope you can help us (and our poor
neighbours!).
--
Nexmilitis
peterwn
wrote:
It would appear that the owner of the road which seems to have 11
easements over it is entitled to levy a reasonable charge for
maintenance. If it is not paid, he or she can sue for it but would
need to convince the court on the balance of probabilities that the
quantum of maintenance is reasonable and the apportionment of the
charges is reasonable. Unless the easements specifically interest is
payable on overdue accounts, the only interest payable would be
ordered by a court at the statutory rate and not compounded.
The owner should have consulted with the 11 others before committing
any significant work, although failing to consult may not be 'lethal'
to any claim. You are going to have to pay something, but not what the
owner unilaterally demands with inadequate justification.
David Hearn
> I hope someone can advise me on how to respond to a bill I have
> received.
>
> We live on a private road that we share with around 12 households and 2
> businesses - a garden centre and a golf centre. Today we received a
> other that cutting the grass verges has happened in that time.
>
> To make matters worse, they seem to be charging the private residents
> based on some caculation on distance from the main road. This has left
> In our deeds it states we have a:
>
> "right of way with or without vehicles at all times and for all
> purposes over and along the private driveway leading from <the main
> road> to the property upon the Purchaser being responsible for paying a
> contribution towards the maintenance and repair of the road including
> the grass verges adjacent thereto and the hedges bordering the
> same..."
>
> Now the fact it simply states, "paying a contribution towards the
> maintenance and repair" and does not state how it is calculated either
> leaves us in a position of power or weakness and I do not know which!
> Could we simply pay what we think is a 'fair' amount or show how we
> think the charge should be calculated?
>
> maintenance (we should not have paid as there had been none!), and at
> this time the garden centre which must have several hundred cars pass
> along the road during the summer especially was only asked to pay
>
> To add insult to injury the 'invoice' states that if we do not pay
> within 30 days interest at 8% will be charged!
>
> The private road and verges are owned by one of our neighbours who have
> been carrying out a campaign of harassment in one form or another
> against all households for the past two years so the bill really sticks
> in the throat.
>
> Sorry about the long post but I hope you can help us (and our poor
> neighbours!).
Are they charging a regular amount (e.g. �ｿｽ500 per year) in anticipation
of future maintenance works required - e.g. resurfacing etc. It could
be seen as better to do that, than for each property to be hit for a
bill of �ｿｽ10k when it's due. Or is this just for a spot of gardening etc?
It may seem fair to charge people based on usage. The person who drives
up 10m of road uses less of it than the one at the far end. However, I
would also suggest that the businesses get far more use than any of the
residential properties.
D
Usenet Nutter
wrote:
>On Sep 2, 2:25�ｿｽpm, Nexmilitis <Nexmilitis.4e38...@legalbanter.co.uk>
>wrote:
>> I hope someone can advise me on how to respond to a bill I have
>> received.
>>
>> We live on a private road that we share with around 12 households and 2
>> businesses - a garden centre and a golf centre. �ｿｽToday we received a
>> bill for nearly �ｿｽ1000 for the past two years in maintenance yet little
>> other that cutting the grass verges has happened in that time. �ｿｽ
>>
>> To make matters worse, they seem to be charging the private residents
>> based on some caculation on distance from the main road. �ｿｽThis has left
>> one household with a bill of �ｿｽ7000! �ｿｽ
>>
>> In our deeds it states we have a:
>>
>> "right of way with or without vehicles at all times and for all
>> purposes over and along the private driveway leading from <the main
>> road> to the property upon the Purchaser being responsible for paying a
>> contribution towards the maintenance and repair of the road including
>> the grass verges adjacent thereto and the hedges bordering the
>> same..."
>>
>> Now the fact it simply states, "paying a contribution towards the
>> maintenance and repair" and does not state how it is calculated either
>> leaves us in a position of power or weakness and I do not know which!
>> Could we simply pay what we think is a 'fair' amount or show how we
>> think the charge should be calculated?
>>
>> We know that 2 years ago we were asked to pay �ｿｽ300 for retrospective
>> maintenance (we should not have paid as there had been none!), and at
>> this time the garden centre which must have several hundred cars pass
>> along the road during the summer especially was only asked to pay
>> �ｿｽ1,000 - hardly fair to those of us with one or two family cars.
>>
>> To add insult to injury the 'invoice' states that if we do not pay
>> within 30 days interest at 8% will be charged!
>>
>> The private road and verges are owned by one of our neighbours who have
>> been carrying out a campaign of harassment in one form or another
>> against all households for the past two years so the bill really sticks
>> in the throat.
>>
>> Sorry about the long post but I hope you can help us (and our poor
>> neighbours!).
>>
>> --
>> Nexmilitis
>
>It would appear that the owner of the road which seems to have 11
>easements over it is entitled to levy a reasonable charge for
>maintenance. If it is not paid, he or she can sue for it but would
>need to convince the court on the balance of probabilities that the
>quantum of maintenance is reasonable and the apportionment of the
>charges is reasonable. Unless the easements specifically interest is
>payable on overdue accounts, the only interest payable would be
>ordered by a court at the statutory rate and not compounded.
Is interest payable between a business and an individual or
individuals .I thought it was only allowed between businesses.
Neil Williams
<individual...@takeoutmyteethgmail.com> wrote:
> Is interest payable between a business and an individual or
> individuals .I thought it was only allowed between businesses.
I'd have thought individuals may negotiate with one another any terms
they wished?
Neil
peterwn
> Nexmilitis wrote:
> > I hope someone can advise me on how to respond to a bill I have
> > received.
>
> > We live on a private road that we share with around 12 households and 2
> > businesses - a garden centre and a golf centre. Today we received a
> > other that cutting the grass verges has happened in that time.
>
> > To make matters worse, they seem to be charging the private residents
> > based on some caculation on distance from the main road. This has left
>
> > In our deeds it states we have a:
>
> > "right of way with or without vehicles at all times and for all
> > purposes over and along the private driveway leading from <the main
> > road> to the property upon the Purchaser being responsible for paying a
> > contribution towards the maintenance and repair of the road including
> > the grass verges adjacent thereto and the hedges bordering the
> > same..."
>
> > Now the fact it simply states, "paying a contribution towards the
> > maintenance and repair" and does not state how it is calculated either
> > leaves us in a position of power or weakness and I do not know which!
> > Could we simply pay what we think is a 'fair' amount or show how we
> > think the charge should be calculated?
>
> > maintenance (we should not have paid as there had been none!), and at
> > this time the garden centre which must have several hundred cars pass
> > along the road during the summer especially was only asked to pay
>
> > To add insult to injury the 'invoice' states that if we do not pay
> > within 30 days interest at 8% will be charged!
>
> > The private road and verges are owned by one of our neighbours who have
> > been carrying out a campaign of harassment in one form or another
> > against all households for the past two years so the bill really sticks
> > in the throat.
>
> > Sorry about the long post but I hope you can help us (and our poor
> > neighbours!).
>
> of future maintenance works required - e.g. resurfacing etc. It could
> be seen as better to do that, than for each property to be hit for a
>
> It may seem fair to charge people based on usage. The person who drives
> up 10m of road uses less of it than the one at the far end. However, I
> would also suggest that the businesses get far more use than any of the
> residential properties.
>
I would doubt that an owner can charge in anticipation, unless there
was a specific mandate in the easement documentation and even then the
money would need to be held by an independent trustee.
If there was no formal easement document (eg by usage, adverse
possession, etc) the effective terms and conditions would be discerned
from any governing legislation or the common law
Mike Arnold
residences) and am chairman of its road board. We administer the road
through our Association rather than as a Company. Irrespective of where
residences are along the road we charge (currently) £70 per annum for
the upkeep of the road, verges and trees. We will increase that to £100
next year; it has been too low. Our charges are low compared with other
private roads in the area (Surrey); some are double ours. We own about
half the length of our road; the ownership of the other half is unknown.
The road has a tarmac surface; there aren't any pavements.
My Association has joined (about £70 per year) Private Road Services
Ltd, Barnwell Farm, Station Road, Marsh Gibbon, Bicester, Bucks, OX27
0HN for legal advice. It is specifically for legal advice on private
roads and advice can even be obtained over the phone. I only advocate
it as we find it invaluable; I have no financial stake in it.
I can give you further information if you think it might help.
Mike
Ian
wrote:
> We live on a private road that we share with around 12 households and 2
> businesses - a garden centre and a golf centre. Today we received a
> bill for nearly £1000 for the past two years in maintenance yet little
> other that cutting the grass verges has happened in that time.
...
> Now the fact it simply states, "paying a contribution towards the
> maintenance and repair" and does not state how it is calculated either
> leaves us in a position of power or weakness and I do not know which!
> Could we simply pay what we think is a 'fair' amount or show how we
> think the charge should be calculated?
I think your first move should be to ask (a) for evidence of how much
has been spent on maintenance and repair over the period in question
and (b) how your share has been calculated.
It does not sound - IANAL - as if the owner has any right to do more
than recoup his costs.
Ian
Nexmilitis
peterwn;677816 Wrote:
> On Sep 2, 2:25*pm, Nexmilitis Nexmilitis.4e38...@legalbanter.co.uk
> wrote:[color=blue][i]
>
> It would appear that the owner of the road which seems to have 11
> easements over it is entitled to levy a reasonable charge for
> maintenance. If it is not paid, he or she can sue for it but would
> need to convince the court on the balance of probabilities that the
> quantum of maintenance is reasonable and the apportionment of the
> charges is reasonable. Unless the easements specifically interest is
> payable on overdue accounts, the only interest payable would be
> ordered by a court at the statutory rate and not compounded.
>
> The owner should have consulted with the 11 others before committing
> any significant work, although failing to consult may not be 'lethal'
> to any claim. You are going to have to pay something, but not what the
> owner unilaterally demands with inadequate justification.
Many thanks for your reply. We are quite happy to pay as we want the
area to look nice. Two years ago we did pay the �300 in full with no
evidence as to how this amount was levied. The current bill seems
large and the chap who cuts the grass is their 'business' partner who
we feel may be 'charging' exorbitant amounts - a case of the left hand
paying the right hand? These charges come shortly after they lost a
legal battle with a local farmer in which they have to pay �60K in
costs and then mend all the fences so it seems to the cynically minded
of us that, with little having been done other than grass cutting (no
resurfacing etc. has been carried out), that they are trying to limit
their financial exposure by getting some capital from the residents.
Is there a minimum amount we could offer to pay? Should we simply pay
�100 (or another fee) and say this is what we feel is a reasonable
amount? What evidence of justification would they need to show and how
could we challenge their claims if we feel they are unjustified?
--
Nexmilitis
Peter Crosland
"Nexmilitis" <Nexmiliti...@legalbanter.co.uk> wrote in message
news:Nexmiliti...@legalbanter.co.uk...
When you bought the house did your solicitor explain what the arrangements
were regarding this? I suggest you go back to the solicitor and ask exactly
what you are committed to. It also sounds as though you, and your neighbours
need to get together and tackle the owner on a united front.
Peter Crosland
Walt
news:Nexmiliti...@legalbanter.co.uk:
Can I suggest you also ask in the Forums to www.Gardenlaw.co.uk
They do have a number of experts there on easements for private roads
etc. (The group is NOT just about "Garden" law.)
No offence to any similar experts in this Group.
Walt
Norman Wells
> I hope someone can advise me on how to respond to a bill I have
> received.
>
> We live on a private road that we share with around 12 households and
> 2 businesses - a garden centre and a golf centre. Today we received a
> bill for nearly £1000 for the past two years in maintenance yet little
> other that cutting the grass verges has happened in that time.
>
> To make matters worse, they seem to be charging the private residents
> based on some caculation on distance from the main road. This has
> left one household with a bill of £7000!
>
> In our deeds it states we have a:
>
> "right of way with or without vehicles at all times and for all
> purposes over and along the private driveway leading from <the main
> road> to the property upon the Purchaser being responsible for paying
> a contribution towards the maintenance and repair of the road
> including the grass verges adjacent thereto and the hedges bordering
> the same..."
>
> Now the fact it simply states, "paying a contribution towards the
> maintenance and repair" and does not state how it is calculated either
> leaves us in a position of power or weakness and I do not know which!
> Could we simply pay what we think is a 'fair' amount or show how we
> think the charge should be calculated?
You should ask how the charge has been calculated, and ask to see a copy of
the accounts. What you should pay does not extend beyond what is
reasonable, ie a reasonable share of what has been paid for reasonable
maintenance and repair.
It is not unreasonable for those living further from the main road to pay
more, as they use more of the private road. It is unreasonable for everyone
to pay equally, however, if the vast majority of the traffic is for the two
businesses.
> We know that 2 years ago we were asked to pay £300 for retrospective
> maintenance (we should not have paid as there had been none!), and at
> this time the garden centre which must have several hundred cars pass
> along the road during the summer especially was only asked to pay
> £1,000 - hardly fair to those of us with one or two family cars.
Then put your point to the road owners, saying you are prepared to pay a
reasonable amount for your use of the private road, but not to pay for the
businesses' use of it. Say that you need to discuss and agree what a
reasonable amount is, but that you don't accept it is what you've been
billed.
Get together with your neighbours and agree a joint course of action. If
all or most of you feel the same, you should all say you will not pay until
a reasonable solution is found.
>
> To add insult to injury the 'invoice' states that if we do not pay
> within 30 days interest at 8% will be charged!
Totally unreasonable, particularly given that you have not been billed for 2
years. It's probably not legally enforceable anyway, and so shouldn't be
paid.
>
> The private road and verges are owned by one of our neighbours who
> have been carrying out a campaign of harassment in one form or another
> against all households for the past two years so the bill really
> sticks in the throat.
>
> Sorry about the long post but I hope you can help us (and our poor
> neighbours!).
What you need is self-help. Get together with all those aggrieved, decide
what you want, and sort it out jointly with the road owner.
Usenet Nutter
I was talking about adding interest on an unpaid debt. My
understanding was/is that it was allowed if the 2 parties are
businesses but not if the debtor is an individual.
I wasn't talking about negotiating terms
Nexmilitis
'Ian[_11_ Wrote:
> ;678020']On 2 Sep, 03:25, Nexmilitis
>
> I think your first move should be to ask (a) for evidence of how much
> has been spent on maintenance and repair over the period in question
> and (b) how your share has been calculated.
>
> It does not sound - IANAL - as if the owner has any right to do more
> than recoup his costs.
>
> Ian
Many thanks for your replies. No major works have been carried out to
maintain the road nor have we been told of any planned works. Some
work was carried out on behalf of the garden centre to allow
articulated lorries to turn into the garden centre but as this was an
improvement (not 'maintenance or repair), and not for the residents
(the road now looks worse for the work as a beautiful tree was cut
down), we should not be liable to pay for this. I agree and the other
residents agree that the owners are entitled to levy a reasonable
charge for the maintenance but in this case it does not seem
'reasonable' hence my question of what we should offer to pay? Would
the best course of action be to write a letter saying we are happy to
pay but ask for evidence that the calculation of maintenance is
reasonable and the apportionment of the charges is reasonable?
I mentioned that the majority of charges would be from the grass
cutting by their business partner. What if he produced some invoices
at ridiculous rates or 'council' rates? What recourse would we have?
--
Nexmilitis
John Stumbles
> I hope someone can advise me on how to respond to a bill I have
> received.
---8<--- snip ---8<---
In addition to many good contributions made by others, might I ask what
their ultimate recourse is? Can they stop you using the road, or only sue
you if you don't pay what they demand? If the latter then, ultimately, and
if you have the nerve, you could just let them do that, and let the courts
determine what would be a reasonable charge for whatever services they
have provided. IANAL but I would think you'd make your position stronger
if you paid them a "reasonable"[1] amount up front and made them decide
whether to sue you for the rest if they think their case has merit.
[1] FSVO "reasonable", but I think the court would look more
sympathetically on a "showing willing" payment to them than a refusal to
pay anything at all.
--
John Stumbles
"I used to think correlation implied causation.
Then I took a statistics course and now I don't."
"Sounds as if the statistics course helped."
"Well, maybe."
SantaUK
quotes from established companies who conduct this work on a regular basis.
If he has opted for an exaggerated contract then I don't see that he has
acted in the interest of all parties involved.
--
Regards
SantaUK
NT
wrote:
I'd probably reply asking for a full details and itemisation of the
bill, saying that if all proves to be satisfactory I would consider
the matter.
NT