Is it legal to (occasionally) carry goods on a camper van?

[Simon Ferrol]

I am thinking of buying a camper van because I want to spend part of the
year in warmer climates.

I also need to refurbish my flat (which I need to keep for
insurance/tax/DVLA/HMRC pursposes).

There are a lot of goods that I could collect for free if I had a van
and I am missing out on all of them.

As tax and insurance for a van is much higher than a camper van, I
though that I could catch two birds with one stone by using the camper
van (occasionally, not as a trade) to carry goods in/out of my flat.

But then I read this on a camper van forum:

" This vehicle needs an MOT certificate from xx/xx/20xx but goods
vehicle certificate required now if vehicle carrying goods/burden not
needed by the user for accommodation purposes on the vehicle."

How would you interpret the "goods/burden not needed by the user for
accommodation purposes on the vehicle"?

Would that be interpreted as for commercial purposes, or could the
highway/metropolitan police potentially stop me and fine me for carrying
one of these goods on the camper van?

What is involved here: just MOT or also different tax/insurance, etc? I
repeat, this would be occasional, maybe a couple of times per week at best.

I know of people who "just do it" but I want to be on the safe side.

SF

[Fredxx]

Once you go over 3.5t GVW I suspect those rules apply. Is your choice of
camper van going to be really that big?

As a general rule, carrying goods implied work related activities or
hire and reward. I would trust the words on a forum any more than here.
BICBW

[Simon Ferrol]

Is it 3.5t before of after loading? In any case I would be going for a
small camper van.

Fredxx:

[JNugent]

You say "goods", which is, to say the least, ambiguous.

Most of us carry "goods" in our cars, private vans and SUVs at least
once a week - home from the supermarket where we have purchased them.
But we rarely use the word "goods" as opposed to "shopping", whether
they consist of a loaf of bread or a 48" TV.

However, the word you use rings alarm bells.

Do you mean things for your own use (in which case, see above), or do
you mean trade goods you hope to sell?

In that latter case, you'd need the appropriate licence for the vehicle,
an operator's licence and insurance which would cover the carriage of
trade goods.

[Andy Burns]

JNugent wrote:

> You say "goods", which is, to say the least, ambiguous.
>
> Most of us carry "goods" in our cars, private vans and SUVs at least
> once a week - home from the supermarket where we have purchased them.
> But we rarely use the word "goods" as opposed to "shopping", whether
> they consist of a loaf of bread or a 48" TV.
>
> However, the word you use rings alarm bells.

Aren't cars categorised as "PLG" on the V5 form, i.e. Private/Light
Goods vehicle?

[Fredxx]

My thoughts entirely.

> However, the word you use rings alarm bells.

Yes, but the sort of words I might expect on such a forum without
justification or cite.

> Do you mean things for your own use (in which case, see above), or do
> you mean trade goods you hope to sell?
>
> In that latter case, you'd need the appropriate licence for the vehicle,
> an operator's licence and insurance which would cover the carriage of
> trade goods.

You only need an operators licence if the vehicle is over 3.5t GVW (MAM)

[Colin Bignell]

Yes, but I still need a specific clause in my insurance to allow me to
carry goods for the purposes of my business. Otherwise, it is limited to
social, domestic and pleasure use. That means shopping or visiting
family and friends. My insurer also includes commuting to a single
workplace in SD&P, but not all do.

--
Colin Bignell

[RJH]

On 12 Oct 2023 at 14:10:37 BST, Simon Ferrol wrote:

> Is it 3.5t before of after loading? In any case I would be going for a
> small camper van.
>

I've got a micro camper - converted a Berlingo by taking out the back seat and
putting in a (removable, easily) bed arrangement. It all folds up to leave a
big flat area I use for transporting bikes, and occasionally building
materials for my own use (or helping friends out). I put the back seat back in
for MOT time - although I don't know whether I need to or not.

Never occured to me to check the insurance - be inetrested to see what others
have to say.

--
Cheers, Rob, Sheffield UK

[Michael Chare]

I would have thought you would also need a specific clause just for
business use even if not carrying goods.

--
Michael Chare

[Roger Hayter]

On 12 Oct 2023 at 21:23:21 BST, "Michael Chare"

Social, domestic, pleasure and commuting to work is one of the commonest types
of insurance, but it is important to check you have it if you're going to
commute - as you say. Use at work, but not commercial travelling is also
common for those who have to visit client sites or various employer sites.
These options do not normally add much to the premiums. Commercial travelling
or the regular transport of goods for other parties do cost more, though.

--
Roger Hayter

[Colin Bignell]

My business use covers anything, apart from plying for hire or use in
connection with the motor trade, but I think there is an option,
presumably cheaper, for business travel without carrying goods.

--
Colin Bignell

[JNugent]

Possibly. Probably, even. It's years since I looked at the "log book"
for my car (which I bought new in 2014).

[David]

This would be a bit of a shock to camper van/motor home owners with kids
at University.

The start/end of term shuttle usually involves the camper as there is more
space for all the "useful things" offspring "need".

I noted down(up?) thread a mention of different rules for over 3.5 tonnes
which might also be a shock to some as a lot of motor homes are rated
higher.

Will be watching.

Cheers


Dave R


--
AMD FX-6300 in GA-990X-Gaming SLI-CF running Windows 10 x64

[Colin Bignell]

The Government classes motorhomes as good vehicles if they:

carry goods for exhibition and sale, or
are used as a workshop, or
are used for storage

Motorhomes over 3.05 Tonne MUW are also subject to lower speed limits on
single and dual carriageways. Both sets of information here:

https://www.gov.uk/speed-limits

Insurers may, of course, choose to set their own additional restrictions
on their use.

--
Colin Bignell

[Nick Odell]

On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 09:18:05 +0000, Simon Ferrol

Looking back at some of your other posts in other threads I could
imagine that the only reason you want to continue to live in your flat
is to have a permanent address for motor vehicle, tax and insurance
purposes - would that be a correct assumption?

If that is the case then there are plenty of other ways that people
use to meet their legal obligations and forming a company which will
own all your assets, with a registered address with your solicitor or
elsewhere is only one of them.

Lots of other people live all the year round in an appropriate motor
vehicle, traveling south for the winter and stopping wherever they
please provided it is legal. It might be worth your carrying out a
cost-benefit analysis of this way of life over your current situation.
Once you have committed to doing things very differently the figures
might surprise you.

For example, although my arrangements are a bit different from your
intended changes, I spend up to half of each year living in South
America yet my only source of income is my state pension. You'd be
amazed at how far a bit of lateral thinking can take you.


Nick

[David]

"Used for storage" is another interesting and possibly ambiguous one. :-)
I assume it is aimed at parking up a derelict MH and then using it to
store goods long term.
Much like derelict Luton vans.
Not to keep a table and chairs under cover over the winter.

Also, 3.05 Tonnes MUW is probably something an owner of a 3.5 Tonne is
unlikely to accurately know.
The Unladen Weight on the vehicle plate is quite likely to be inaccurate
if any additional features have been added post manufacture, from an extra
battery to solar panels to tow bar to.....

[JNugent]

Both classes would still need - at a minimum - a new MOT pass every
year. Not easy for "derelict" vehicles, I suggest.

But that's only if they are "stored" on the highway, of course.

If the vehicle is stored elsewhere (eg, on private land), there are no
requirements that need cause a moment's worry.

[Brian]

Over 3.5 T it will be classed as a PHGV*, at least recently. It may have a
different designation if it was registered or up plated some time ago**.
Ours was originally registered in 2018 at 3.65 as PHGV, I had it up plated
( following the required modifications and certification etc) to 3.85T.

As to carrying goods.

I have seen reports / stories of MH owners taking their vehicles for MOTs
to some VOSA sites which, I understand, do MOT tests ( getting larger
vehicles MOT’d can be problematic, not all places can accommodate them),
and having issues if they have items on board ‘not related to normal
motorhome use’ This has included have motorcycles etc in the ‘garage’ (rear
area ).

I’ve never had an issue but I don’t carry anything unusual.

That said, if I needed to move something, I probably would. I doubt it
would be illegal.

* Being a PHGV is cheaper to ‘tax’, although you do need the required
categories on your licence.

**the designations have, I believe, changed over the years.

[Brian]

It depends what you are moving.

When our eldest finished her year at a French Uni, we combined ferrying her
home with a holiday. Besides her, there were her clothes, books, etc.
Little different to what we normally carry. Other than bringing back less
wine ( due to the weight ) no different to a normal trip at the time.

>
> The start/end of term shuttle usually involves the camper as there is more
> space for all the "useful things" offspring "need".
>
> I noted down(up?) thread a mention of different rules for over 3.5 tonnes
> which might also be a shock to some as a lot of motor homes are rated
> higher.
>

Our shuttling to / from Uni days are behind us but, I don’t recall carrying
anything that would be out of place in a motorhome, if anything less so
than in a car. Certainly motorhomes have bedding, pots, pans, etc.

I agree some mh owners probably are less aware of their vehicle weight when
loaded than they should be and even more don’t inflate their tyres to the
recommended pressures in order to get a softer ride. This is a frequent
topic on the various forums. ( 80 PSI is not uncommon for many vehicles,
including mine.)

Our mh is 3.85T plus we tow a car on a trailer. Needless to say, I take
safety very seriously.