Easement for neighbour to put a soakaway on my land?

[George Miles (dicegeorge)]

A neighbour wants to dig a soakaway pit and pipe on my land for his rainwater, as it is now going into the sewage pipe (where a previous owner diverted it) and overflowing the septic tank with brown mess spilling onto the farmers' land.

Should I change the deeds, or get some kind of an easement?

Can I charge him a fee per year, £10, 100 or £1000 per year?

Advice Please

George

[GB]

I fed your entire post into ChatGPT, and here's the response:

"Dear George,

It sounds like your neighbor is having issues with rainwater and sewage
overflow, and is looking to resolve the issue by diverting the rainwater
onto your land through a soakaway pit and pipe.

Before making any decisions, it is important to understand the legal
implications of allowing your neighbor to use your land for this
purpose. You may want to consult a lawyer or a property surveyor to
determine the best course of action. However, here are some general
considerations to keep in mind:

Changing Deeds vs. Easement:
If your neighbor is going to use your land to dig a soakaway pit and
pipe, it is advisable to have an agreement in writing to protect your
interests. This agreement could take the form of a change to the deeds
or an easement. A change to the deeds would transfer ownership of the
land to your neighbor, while an easement would grant your neighbor a
right to use your land for a specific purpose. An easement may be a
better option, as it would allow you to retain ownership of the land
while giving your neighbor the right to use it for the soakaway.

Charging a fee:
If you agree to allow your neighbor to use your land, you may be able to
charge a fee for the use of the land. The amount you can charge will
depend on various factors, such as the amount of land being used, the
market value of the land, and the local rates for similar agreements.
However, it is important to note that charging a fee may complicate the
legal arrangements and may affect the terms of the agreement.

Consider the environmental impact:
Before granting permission for the soakaway, it is important to ensure
that the design and construction of the system will not have any adverse
environmental impact. You may want to consult with local authorities to
ensure that the project complies with any applicable environmental
regulations.

In conclusion, it is advisable to seek professional advice to ensure
that your interests are protected. You should also consider the
environmental impact of the proposed soakaway and any potential fees for
the use of your land.

I hope this helps.

Best regards,
ChatGPT"


I'm inclined to think that few solicitors would hope to get away with
such anodyne advice.

It's hard to tell how much you can charge. What alternatives does your
neighbour have?

[Mark Goodge]

On Sat, 1 Apr 2023 01:37:39 -0700 (PDT), "George Miles (dicegeorge)"
<diceg...@gmail.com> wrote:

>A neighbour wants to dig a soakaway pit and pipe on my land for his
>rainwater, as it is now going into the sewage pipe (where a previous
>owner diverted it) and overflowing the septic tank with brown mess
>spilling onto the farmers' land.
>
>Should I change the deeds, or get some kind of an easement?

It would certainly be advisable to get a written agreement, yes.

>Can I charge him a fee per year, £10, 100 or £1000 per year?

You can charge him whatever he's willing to pay. Although how much you feel
inclined to sting him for depends a lot on your relationship with him and
whether you want to risk any kind of dispute.

What's more important, at this stage, is to ensure that the agreement is
properly drafted. That will need professional work; I really wouldn't
recommend trying to DIY it. A badly worded agreement could have long term
issues for both of you, it could make both properties harder to sell if and
when either of you wants to and if there was a subsequent disagreement as to
the wording then that could end up being very costly to resolve.

I would suggest, therefore, that you agree in principle, subject to a
suitable agreement being drafted by a lawyer specialising in property and
for your neighbour to pay all the costs - yours as well as his own - of
getting the agreement drafted. Your lawyer can also advise you on what would
be a reasonable fee to charge for permitting the soakaway on your land.

Mark

[Roland Perry]

In message <k4rj2i9gh444f0j78...@4ax.com>, at 22:11:21 on
Sun, 2 Apr 2023, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:

> Your lawyer can also advise you on what would be a reasonable fee to
>charge for permitting the soakaway on your land.

I'd be more inclined to ask a chartered surveyor.
--
Roland Perry

[Robert]

On 01/04/2023 09:37, George Miles (dicegeorge) wrote:

> Without knowing the land layout, I would think carefully about possible
future issues:
Will the soakaway and connecting pipes and future access to them for
maintenance restrict future development?
What problems might arise if/when the soakaway get blocked or clogged up ?

[Simon Parker]

On 01/04/2023 09:37, George Miles (dicegeorge) wrote:

With respect, the stakes are far too high for any advice proffered here
to be useful.

As it is your neighbour that wants the soak-away on your land, my
advice, (such as it is), is that you should suggest to your neighbour
that he should pay for you to take independent legal advice from a
solicitor of your choosing without binding you to any decision of any kind.

Once you have the advice, you will be best placed to decide whether or
not to proceed, and if you proceed whether this should be done by
changing the deeds, or giving an easement and whether you should charge
for the change or easement and how much.

I know that isn't really helpful but, as I said at the outset, I
consider the stakes to be too high to proffer anything beyond this.

Regards

S.P.

[Robert]

+1 One with experience or access to expertise on drainage issues

[George Miles (dicegeorge)]

Thanks for the replies,
I've read all 6 comments , what I need to know for now is what questions to ask, and what legal words to research and use, before paying for lawyers!

If I propose to them that they pay for my legal fees I would need a lawyer to check this proposal before I sent it!

They already have access to my land under the deeds to renew and repair a shared sewage pipe, this extra one would only be for their rainwater.

Their rainwater drain used to go in another direction, but it is blocked, and someone may have built a house on top of it, we can't be sure where it went!

I'm thinking of adding a line where if they let anything other than rainwater down it I can shut it off immediately before they poison the ancient Copper Beech !
So it would need an inspection hatch.

If I say in the easement for them to pay me £100 a year for this, and to repair any faults etc, is there a wording to increase the sum if inflation goes up hugely in ten years time?

We are slowly moving ahead with an expensive new shared septic treatment plant under legal necessity, it won't work with rainwater in it.

Thanks

George

[Mark Goodge]

On Tue, 4 Apr 2023 13:21:25 -0700 (PDT), "George Miles (dicegeorge)"
<diceg...@gmail.com> wrote:

>Thanks for the replies,
>I've read all 6 comments , what I need to know for now is what
>questions to ask, and what legal words to research and use, before
>paying for lawyers!

Take advantage of a law firm which offers a free initial consultation. That
should cover all that you need to do initially, providing your neighbour
then accepts your proposal that permission is conditional on him paying all
of your fees as well as his own.

Once you've got that agreement, you can then hire a lawyer and surveyor to
draw up all the necessary documents and send the bills to your neighbour
when you get them.

I asked a friend of mine, who is a commercial lawyer, and he said that yes,
your situation is relatively common, and he'd expect it to be entirely
cost-free to someone in your position as the only work they would need to do
for you that isn't covered by your neighbour's agreement to pay would be the
initial consultation, which is free. You might, possibly, end up out of
pocket to the tune of maybe an hour or so of their time if your neighbour
decides not to proceed with the installation after all. But that's a risk
you will need to take. If your neiighbour is serious about getting the work
done, it should be a relatively low risk.

>If I say in the easement for them to pay me £100 a year for this, and to
>repair any faults etc, is there a wording to increase the sum if inflation
>goes up hugely in ten years time?

This is what your surveyor and laywer will advise you on. So concentrate,
first, on finding one.

Mark

[David McNeish]

An easement is a permanent right, not something like a lease, so it's more common for there to be a one-off price paid, not periodic payments.

I would recommend you agree commercial terms (a surveyor can assist with pricing) before you bother involving any lawyers.

[Simon Parker]

On 04/04/2023 21:21, George Miles (dicegeorge) wrote:
> Thanks for the replies,
> I've read all 6 comments , what I need to know for now is what questions to ask, and what legal words to research and use, before paying for lawyers!

A quick Google reveals threads on MSE, Problem Neighbours (take note!),
The Lemon Fool, Just Answer and DIY Not for the phrase "neighbour
soakaway my land" (without the quotes).

> If I propose to them that they pay for my legal fees I would need a lawyer to check this proposal before I sent it!

Contact a solicitor of your choosing that specialises in these matters
[1], explain what you need advice on and asked if they can do it on a
fixed priced basis. If they can't ask for rough idea of cost up-front.

Agree with your neighbour that he will pay for this advice. Inform the
solicitor that your neighbour has agreed to pay their bill and get the
solicitor to sort the details.

Before speaking with a solicitor, I recommend preparing the facts of the
matter so they'll fit on no than a single side of A4 paper.
Additionally, prepare a list of all questions you have and issues you
want addressing. Send these to the solicitor in advance

This will maximise the time you spend with the solicitor, (be it face to
face, or virtually (via Zoom, Teams, etc.)(as they'll be doing most of
the talking and you'll be doing most of the listening) and will prevent
you thinking, "Oh no! I meant to ask <x>." or "I forget to mention <y>".
Etc. which can be important, particularly in fixed price work where
someone else is paying the bill.

> They already have access to my land under the deeds to renew and repair a shared sewage pipe, this extra one would only be for their rainwater.

There is no "only" where real estate and land is concerned. For
example, what happens if the regulations covering ground discharges
changes? Which party is responsible for paying for the upgrade works
required? Ditto for maintenance? What if the soak-away develops a
fault or problem? What if you (or a successor in title!) wants to build
on the land? Etc., etc., etc.

> Their rainwater drain used to go in another direction, but it is blocked, and someone may have built a house on top of it, we can't be sure where it went!

QED

> I'm thinking of adding a line where if they let anything other than rainwater down it I can shut it off immediately before they poison the ancient Copper Beech !
> So it would need an inspection hatch.

If they let anything other than rainwater down it, you and they may be
breaking the law. It would be wise to insert an indemnity against this
into the agreement, which is something on which a solicitor experienced
in these matters will advise.

> If I say in the easement for them to pay me £100 a year for this, and to repair any faults etc, is there a wording to increase the sum if inflation goes up hugely in ten years time?

You include a clause in the easement that the charge increases annually
by the rate of inflation as calculated by (insert whatever calculation
method you want to use here). Again, the solicitor that is advising you
should cover this.

> We are slowly moving ahead with an expensive new shared septic treatment plant under legal necessity, it won't work with rainwater in it.

Is it possible to upgrade the treatment plant so it will, with the fees
payable (both for installation and maintenance) taking this into account
as that may be a simpler solution?

Regards

S.P.

[1] I would typically hesitate to make a recommendation but I know that
Myerson Solicitors have an excellent property team and ought to be able
to assist with this. (I do not work for them.)