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Didn't cancel a standing order for a gym
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Matt Bentley
Jan 24, 2012, 12:00:06 PM1/24/12
to
When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
payments of £44(£1054 total)in error.
Having contacted the gym they say it is my error and are refusing to
give the money back.
Does any know what my legal rights are?
standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
payments of £44(£1054 total)in error.
Having contacted the gym they say it is my error and are refusing to
give the money back.
Does any know what my legal rights are?
Jon Ribbens
Jan 24, 2012, 1:05:09 PM1/24/12
to
during that period, then you are entitled to the money back, and
you should theoretically win in court if you were to sue.
Hugh - Was Invisible
Jan 24, 2012, 12:50:03 PM1/24/12
to
until now. In the circumstances I rather doubt whether there is anything
you can do about it unless you gave the gym notice of cancellation at the
appropriate time. In that event you could you could claim they were not
entitled to money after the cancellation was effective.
Gyms are notorious for encouraging people into contracts and rigidly
enforcing them.
Mark Goodge
Jan 24, 2012, 1:10:02 PM1/24/12
to
On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:00:06 +0000, Matt Bentley put finger to keyboard and
typed:
You have a right to get the money back, less a reasonable[1] deduction to
cover their costs in processing the refund. The fact that you paid the
money by mistake doesn't mean it's theirs, any more than if you left a
tenner on their reception desk by mistake means it's theirs. If they refuse
to return the money, in the knowledge that it was paid by mistake (ie, they
aren't trying to claim that you were actually paying for a membership) then
they are committing theft.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=money+paid+by+mistake will give plenty of
pointers to the current state of the law.
[1] And I mean reasonable in the usual sense of the word, not the
exaggerated meaning often applied by companies in this situation.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
typed:
cover their costs in processing the refund. The fact that you paid the
money by mistake doesn't mean it's theirs, any more than if you left a
tenner on their reception desk by mistake means it's theirs. If they refuse
to return the money, in the knowledge that it was paid by mistake (ie, they
aren't trying to claim that you were actually paying for a membership) then
they are committing theft.
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=money+paid+by+mistake will give plenty of
pointers to the current state of the law.
[1] And I mean reasonable in the usual sense of the word, not the
exaggerated meaning often applied by companies in this situation.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Roland Perry
Jan 24, 2012, 1:20:02 PM1/24/12
to
In message <slrnjhtsi3.7...@snowy.squish.net>, at 18:05:09 on
Tue, 24 Jan 2012, Jon Ribbens <jon+u...@unequivocal.co.uk> remarked:
membership. Sending money to someone who shouldn't be receiving it
sounds like it should be recoverable.
The gym (despite their industry's appalling reputation on such matters)
should not hang on to money on the grounds that they thought the
payments rescinded the cancellation. Especially if the OP has not
visited the place since.
--
Roland Perry
Tue, 24 Jan 2012, Jon Ribbens <jon+u...@unequivocal.co.uk> remarked:
>> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
>> payments of £44(£1054 total)in error.
>> Having contacted the gym they say it is my error and are refusing to
>> give the money back.
>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
>
>If the contract was indeed ended, i.e. you had no gym membership
>during that period, then you are entitled to the money back, and
>you should theoretically win in court if you were to sue.
Perhaps the OP can say in what tangible form he cancelled the
>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
>> payments of £44(£1054 total)in error.
>> Having contacted the gym they say it is my error and are refusing to
>> give the money back.
>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
>
>If the contract was indeed ended, i.e. you had no gym membership
>during that period, then you are entitled to the money back, and
>you should theoretically win in court if you were to sue.
membership. Sending money to someone who shouldn't be receiving it
sounds like it should be recoverable.
The gym (despite their industry's appalling reputation on such matters)
should not hang on to money on the grounds that they thought the
payments rescinded the cancellation. Especially if the OP has not
visited the place since.
--
Roland Perry
Hugh - Was Invisible
Jan 24, 2012, 1:25:02 PM1/24/12
to
ago. If the cancellation was in order I cannot see how they can keep money
paid in error any more than you can keep money paid to you by a bank in
error (generally).
Theodore
Jan 24, 2012, 1:25:02 PM1/24/12
to
notice £44 leaving your bank account every month.
I can't see how they can hold on to the money if you haven't actually
been a member for 24 months. I suspect they simply never cancelled
your membership in which case unless you can prove otherwise I don't
see you being able to recover the money.
Sam
Jan 24, 2012, 1:25:02 PM1/24/12
to
keep any wallet that someone leaves behind because it's their error.
Stick a letter in the post giving them 14 days to refund you and warn
them that you'll start legal action if they don't. There should be
lots of template letters on the internet.
The only thing that could be a problem is if they claim that the
membership was never cancelled. You probably don't have any sort of
documentation now so try and get them to confirm in writing when your
membership was cancelled. If they won't do this you could compel them to
by using the Data Protection Act / Subject Access Request.
Percy Picacity
Jan 24, 2012, 2:00:11 PM1/24/12
to
Matt Bentley <matt.b...@guardian.co.uk> wrote in news:033649a2-1c06-
4b8c-a238-5...@1g2000yqv.googlegroups.com:
If they agree that you cancelled your membership, then you are entitled
to all your money back. If they claim they accepted your continuing
subscription as evidence you changed your mind about cancelling then
you may end up settling for a compromise (IANAL, and may be quite
wrong!).
--
Percy Picacity
4b8c-a238-5...@1g2000yqv.googlegroups.com:
to all your money back. If they claim they accepted your continuing
subscription as evidence you changed your mind about cancelling then
you may end up settling for a compromise (IANAL, and may be quite
wrong!).
--
Percy Picacity
Dr Zoidberg
Jan 25, 2012, 2:45:03 AM1/25/12
to
"Matt Bentley" <matt.b...@guardian.co.uk> wrote in message
news:033649a2-1c06-4b8c...@1g2000yqv.googlegroups.com...
If so then I agree with the other posters that you stand a good chance of
getting your money back
--
Alex
Matt Bentley
Jan 25, 2012, 5:10:02 AM1/25/12
to
On Jan 24, 6:25 pm, Theodore <noem...@naemail.com> wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:00:06 +0000, Matt Bentley
>
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:00:06 +0000, Matt Bentley
>
is a joint account and both me and my wife wrongly thourght it was for
the other.
The membership was cancelled and the gym have confirmed that.
The Todal
Jan 25, 2012, 5:20:02 AM1/25/12
to
any payments made after the membership was cancelled. For them to argue
otherwise is illogical and foolish.
Calculate the total sum, write to them requesting payment within 21 days
saying that if payment is not made you will sue them in the county court. If
they don't make payment or confirm that payment will be made shortly, sue
them using Money Claim Online. They probably won't even file a defence, in
which case you'll enter judgment.
Matt Bentley
Jan 25, 2012, 6:05:02 AM1/25/12
to
On Jan 24, 5:50 pm, "Hugh - Was Invisible" <invisi...@invalid.invalid>
wrote:
Hi,
The contract was cancelled at the time and the gym have confirmed that.
wrote:
> On Tue, 24 Jan 2012 17:00:06 -0000, Matt Bentley
>
>
The contract was cancelled at the time and the gym have confirmed that.
David McNeish
Jan 25, 2012, 6:30:03 AM1/25/12
to
On Jan 24, 5:00 pm, Matt Bentley <matt.bent...@guardian.co.uk> wrote:
> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
> standing order.
Definitely a standing order rather than a direct debit? If the latter
> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
> standing order.
then the direct debit guarantee should help you.
Matt Bentley
Jan 25, 2012, 9:10:02 AM1/25/12
to
On Jan 24, 5:00 pm, Matt Bentley <matt.bent...@guardian.co.uk> wrote:
of the contract I signed.
c) Cancellation of fully flexible monthly membership
iii. If we continue to recieve payment after your membership has been
cancelled, we will accept this as your notification of your wish to
continue your membership.
How will this effect my rights?
Mark Goodge
Jan 25, 2012, 2:00:06 PM1/25/12
to
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:10:02 +0000, Matt Bentley put finger to keyboard and
typed:
If that clause is enforcable, then it means you've lost the money. But,
previously, you've said that they have confirmed the cancellation. If they
have done so, in writing, then they can't now go back on that and claim
that you didn't cancel.
If they did confirm the cancellation, then that clause is as unenforcable
as a notice which says "any banknotes accidentally dropped in the changing
rooms become the property of the gym". If they knew, or had good reason to
believe, that the payment was made in error then they can't just rely on a
clause which, in effect, says "if you make a mistake then we get to keep
the money". And if you haven't used the gym at all since you cancelled, it
would be hard for them to claim that they didn't realise it was probably a
mistake.
If they are trying to rely on that clause despite having acknowledged your
cancellation in writing, then I'd be inclined to stop trying to persuade
them and move straight to a letter before action and, if necessary,
moneyclaimonline. Given the sums involved, it's worth it even if you don't
have an absolute certainty of winning (althiough I'd say that your chances
are much better than 50/50).
typed:
previously, you've said that they have confirmed the cancellation. If they
have done so, in writing, then they can't now go back on that and claim
that you didn't cancel.
If they did confirm the cancellation, then that clause is as unenforcable
as a notice which says "any banknotes accidentally dropped in the changing
rooms become the property of the gym". If they knew, or had good reason to
believe, that the payment was made in error then they can't just rely on a
clause which, in effect, says "if you make a mistake then we get to keep
the money". And if you haven't used the gym at all since you cancelled, it
would be hard for them to claim that they didn't realise it was probably a
mistake.
If they are trying to rely on that clause despite having acknowledged your
cancellation in writing, then I'd be inclined to stop trying to persuade
them and move straight to a letter before action and, if necessary,
moneyclaimonline. Given the sums involved, it's worth it even if you don't
have an absolute certainty of winning (althiough I'd say that your chances
are much better than 50/50).
Sam
Jan 25, 2012, 2:25:02 PM1/25/12
to
On Wed, 25 Jan 2012 14:10:02 +0000, Matt Bentley wrote:
> Having spoken to the gym again this morning they are quoting a section
> of the contract I signed.
>
> c) Cancellation of fully flexible monthly membership iii. If we continue
> to recieve payment after your membership has been cancelled, we will
> accept this as your notification of your wish to continue your
> membership.
I think that wouldn't hold much weight in court personally. Just because
> Having spoken to the gym again this morning they are quoting a section
> of the contract I signed.
>
> c) Cancellation of fully flexible monthly membership iii. If we continue
> to recieve payment after your membership has been cancelled, we will
> accept this as your notification of your wish to continue your
> membership.
they accept it as continuation of a contract doesn't mean that you do
and surely it requires two people to agree to enter a contract.
I would stop wasting your time calling them. Get written proof that your
contract was cancelled and then give them 14 days notice to repay you,
then start a claim through moneyclaim.gov.uk
Ian Jackson
Jan 25, 2012, 8:05:02 PM1/25/12
to
In article <6sydnSCc0fBzyL3S...@supernews.com>,
--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
Sam <s...@yourml.cd> wrote:
>I would stop wasting your time calling them. Get written proof that your
>contract was cancelled and then give them 14 days notice to repay you,
>then start a claim through moneyclaim.gov.uk
Exactly.
>I would stop wasting your time calling them. Get written proof that your
>contract was cancelled and then give them 14 days notice to repay you,
>then start a claim through moneyclaim.gov.uk
--
Ian Jackson personal email: <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk>
These opinions are my own. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~ijackson/
PGP2 key 1024R/0x23f5addb, fingerprint 5906F687 BD03ACAD 0D8E602E FCF37657
bevo...@gmail.com
Dec 11, 2017, 2:15:58 PM12/11/17
to
I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
Mark Goodge
Dec 11, 2017, 4:18:36 PM12/11/17
to
you to keep it. Conversely, if you have sent someone else money by
mistake, they have no right to keep it.
You are, therefore, entitled to a refund of the money paid in error.
The club may have a case for retaining a reasonable administration fee
to compensate for the work it has to do to pull your nuts out of the
fire, but that would only be a relatively small amount.
Mark
Fredxx
Dec 11, 2017, 10:01:14 PM12/11/17
to
On 11/12/2017 21:18, Mark Goodge wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:11:47 -0800 (PST), bevo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 17:00:06 UTC, Matt Bentley wrote:
>>> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
>>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
>>> payments of £44(£1054 total)in error.
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:11:47 -0800 (PST), bevo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 17:00:06 UTC, Matt Bentley wrote:
>>> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
>>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
>>> Having contacted the gym they say it is my error and are refusing to
>>> give the money back.
>>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
>
> The fact that someone has sent you money by mistake does not entitle
> you to keep it. Conversely, if you have sent someone else money by
> mistake, they have no right to keep it.
>
> You are, therefore, entitled to a refund of the money paid in error.
> The club may have a case for retaining a reasonable administration fee
> to compensate for the work it has to do to pull your nuts out of the
> fire, but that would only be a relatively small amount.
That is my thought, the important thing is they seem to admit there was
>>> give the money back.
>>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
>
> The fact that someone has sent you money by mistake does not entitle
> you to keep it. Conversely, if you have sent someone else money by
> mistake, they have no right to keep it.
>
> You are, therefore, entitled to a refund of the money paid in error.
> The club may have a case for retaining a reasonable administration fee
> to compensate for the work it has to do to pull your nuts out of the
> fire, but that would only be a relatively small amount.
an 'error'.
It would have been so easy for the gym to say the membership hadn't been
cancelled. Or even to say they believed the OP had changed his mind.
GB
Dec 12, 2017, 5:04:07 AM12/12/17
to
On 12/12/2017 01:14, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:11:47 -0800 (PST), bevo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> On Mon, 11 Dec 2017 09:11:47 -0800 (PST), bevo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> On Tuesday, 24 January 2012 17:00:06 UTC, Matt Bentley wrote:
>>> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
>>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
>>> payments of £44(£1054 total)in error.
>>> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
>>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
>>> Having contacted the gym they say it is my error and are refusing to
>>> give the money back.
>>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
>
> Does your gym agree that you were entitled to cancel and that they received
>>> give the money back.
>>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
>>
>> Hi
>>
>> I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
>
> your notice of cancellation or else can you prove those by other means? If
> yes, then their refusal to reimburse you is theft. And if not you will have
> great difficulty.
>
It makes a big difference whether it's a standing order or a direct
debit, by the way.
GB
Dec 12, 2017, 8:40:14 AM12/12/17
to
On 12/12/2017 10:29, Anthony R. Gold wrote:
> How is that big? The essential question is whether the payments were owed
> and whether that is agreed between the OP and his gym or else can be proven.
> Next to that, who instructed the payments seems almost irrelevant.
Really big, as the banks give a direct debit guarantee. You get the
money back, and the bank claws it back from the gym. Then the gym has to
sue you, rather than the other way around. That's a small difference in
law, but in practice with inertia and if there's a genuine disagreement
it's massive.
> and whether that is agreed between the OP and his gym or else can be proven.
> Next to that, who instructed the payments seems almost irrelevant.
Really big, as the banks give a direct debit guarantee. You get the
money back, and the bank claws it back from the gym. Then the gym has to
sue you, rather than the other way around. That's a small difference in
law, but in practice with inertia and if there's a genuine disagreement
it's massive.
Roland Perry
Dec 12, 2017, 9:36:40 AM12/12/17
to
In message <p0odea$rh7$1...@news.albasani.net>, at 11:10:00 on Tue, 12 Dec
2017, GB <NOTSo...@Microsoft.com> remarked:
by the merchant. Or is there evidence to the contrary?
--
Roland Perry
2017, GB <NOTSo...@Microsoft.com> remarked:
>>>>>> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
>>>>>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
>>>>>> payments of £44(£1054 total)in error.
>>>>>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
>>>>>> Having contacted the gym they say it is my error and are refusing to
>>>>>> give the money back.
>>>>>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
>>>>
>>>> Does your gym agree that you were entitled to cancel and that they received
>>>> your notice of cancellation or else can you prove those by other means? If
>>>> yes, then their refusal to reimburse you is theft. And if not you will have
>>>> great difficulty.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It makes a big difference whether it's a standing order or a direct
>>> debit, by the way.
>> How is that big? The essential question is whether the payments were
>>owed
>> and whether that is agreed between the OP and his gym or else can be proven.
>> Next to that, who instructed the payments seems almost irrelevant.
>
>Really big, as the banks give a direct debit guarantee. You get the
>money back, and the bank claws it back from the gym. Then the gym has
>to sue you, rather than the other way around. That's a small difference
>in law, but in practice with inertia and if there's a genuine
>disagreement it's massive.
The DD guarantee is only supposed to cover the consumer for errors made
>>>>>> give the money back.
>>>>>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi
>>>>>
>>>>> I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
>>>>
>>>> Does your gym agree that you were entitled to cancel and that they received
>>>> your notice of cancellation or else can you prove those by other means? If
>>>> yes, then their refusal to reimburse you is theft. And if not you will have
>>>> great difficulty.
>>>>
>>>
>>> It makes a big difference whether it's a standing order or a direct
>>> debit, by the way.
>> How is that big? The essential question is whether the payments were
>>owed
>> and whether that is agreed between the OP and his gym or else can be proven.
>> Next to that, who instructed the payments seems almost irrelevant.
>
>Really big, as the banks give a direct debit guarantee. You get the
>money back, and the bank claws it back from the gym. Then the gym has
>to sue you, rather than the other way around. That's a small difference
>in law, but in practice with inertia and if there's a genuine
>disagreement it's massive.
by the merchant. Or is there evidence to the contrary?
--
Roland Perry
Janet
Dec 12, 2017, 10:02:07 AM12/12/17
to
In article <rdbv2dl1scn5prtj4...@4ax.com>, not-for-
ma...@ahjg.co.uk says...
> How is that big?
Because (unlike a DD) the gym could not put a stop on his SO. the
only person who can cancel a standing order, is the owner of the
account it's paid from. (the OP).
https://moneyfacts.co.uk/guides/banking/what-is-a-standing-
order170611/
"Essentially, a standing order is an instruction to your bank, whereas
a direct debit gives permission to a company to take money from you. You
are the only person who can change the date or payment amount on your
standing order. This is the main difference to a direct debit, where
these details can be changed by the person or organisation you're
paying."
Janet
ma...@ahjg.co.uk says...
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 05:43:29 +0000, GB <NOTSo...@Microsoft.com> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 12 Dec 2017 05:43:29 +0000, GB <NOTSo...@Microsoft.com> wrote:
>
Because (unlike a DD) the gym could not put a stop on his SO. the
only person who can cancel a standing order, is the owner of the
account it's paid from. (the OP).
https://moneyfacts.co.uk/guides/banking/what-is-a-standing-
order170611/
"Essentially, a standing order is an instruction to your bank, whereas
a direct debit gives permission to a company to take money from you. You
are the only person who can change the date or payment amount on your
standing order. This is the main difference to a direct debit, where
these details can be changed by the person or organisation you're
paying."
Janet
Janet
Dec 12, 2017, 10:15:58 AM12/12/17
to
In article <j6+mDPBm...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk says...
> Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:26:46 +0000
> Subject: Re: Didn't cancel a standing order for a gym
> From: Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
merchant AND by the bank.
In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
bank.
Janet.
.
> Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 14:26:46 +0000
> Subject: Re: Didn't cancel a standing order for a gym
> From: Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>
> In message <p0odea$rh7$1...@news.albasani.net>, at 11:10:00 on Tue, 12 Dec
> 2017, GB <NOTSo...@Microsoft.com> remarked:
> >>>>>> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
> >>>>>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
> >>>>>> payments of £44(£1054 total)in error.
> In message <p0odea$rh7$1...@news.albasani.net>, at 11:10:00 on Tue, 12 Dec
> 2017, GB <NOTSo...@Microsoft.com> remarked:
> >>>>>> When I cancelled my gym membership 2 years ago I didn't cancel the
> >>>>>> standing order. I have now realized that I have made 24 months
> >>>>>> Having contacted the gym they say it is my error and are refusing to
> >>>>>> give the money back.
> >>>>>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
> >>>>
> >>>> Does your gym agree that you were entitled to cancel and that they received
> >>>> your notice of cancellation or else can you prove those by other means? If
> >>>> yes, then their refusal to reimburse you is theft. And if not you will have
> >>>> great difficulty.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It makes a big difference whether it's a standing order or a direct
> >>> debit, by the way.
> >> How is that big? The essential question is whether the payments were
> >>owed
> >> and whether that is agreed between the OP and his gym or else can be proven.
> >> Next to that, who instructed the payments seems almost irrelevant.
> >
> >Really big, as the banks give a direct debit guarantee. You get the
> >money back, and the bank claws it back from the gym. Then the gym has
> >to sue you, rather than the other way around. That's a small difference
> >in law, but in practice with inertia and if there's a genuine
> >disagreement it's massive.
>
> The DD guarantee is only supposed to cover the consumer for errors made
> by the merchant. Or is there evidence to the contrary?
>
The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
> >>>>>> give the money back.
> >>>>>> Does any know what my legal rights are?
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I know this post was years ago, however I am a similar position. How did you get on?
> >>>>
> >>>> Does your gym agree that you were entitled to cancel and that they received
> >>>> your notice of cancellation or else can you prove those by other means? If
> >>>> yes, then their refusal to reimburse you is theft. And if not you will have
> >>>> great difficulty.
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>> It makes a big difference whether it's a standing order or a direct
> >>> debit, by the way.
> >> How is that big? The essential question is whether the payments were
> >>owed
> >> and whether that is agreed between the OP and his gym or else can be proven.
> >> Next to that, who instructed the payments seems almost irrelevant.
> >
> >Really big, as the banks give a direct debit guarantee. You get the
> >money back, and the bank claws it back from the gym. Then the gym has
> >to sue you, rather than the other way around. That's a small difference
> >in law, but in practice with inertia and if there's a genuine
> >disagreement it's massive.
>
> The DD guarantee is only supposed to cover the consumer for errors made
> by the merchant. Or is there evidence to the contrary?
>
merchant AND by the bank.
In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
bank.
Janet.
.
Tim Woodall
Dec 12, 2017, 11:18:26 AM12/12/17
to
On 2017-12-12, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
> merchant AND by the bank.
>
> In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
> bank.
>
If it was a DD and the OP cancelled his membership then it must have
> The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
> merchant AND by the bank.
>
> In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
> bank.
>
been an error by the gym that they kept collecting it.
If it was a SO then the OP could cancel his membership without
cancelling the DD. In general I'd expect the opposite to be more common
and I'm not surprised the gym didn't notice - or may even have assumed
the membership cancellation was an error.
>
>
>
> .
>
davi...@gmail.com
Dec 12, 2017, 11:20:04 AM12/12/17
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On Tuesday, 12 December 2017 15:15:58 UTC, Janet wrote:
> The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
> merchant AND by the bank.
>
> In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
> bank.
More pertinently, there isn't even a direct debit (assuming both the OP and the poster who resurrected the thread are correct in saying it's a standing order). But if it were a direct debit then it's the merchant who requests the funds, so it would have been their error if payments continued beyond the end of the contract.
> The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
> merchant AND by the bank.
>
> In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
> bank.
Janet
Dec 12, 2017, 11:34:01 AM12/12/17
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In article <slrnp300a9....@einstein.home.woodall.me.uk>, news001
@woodall.me.uk says...
> Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:18:17 +0000 (UTC)
Janet.
@woodall.me.uk says...
> Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated
> Date: Tue, 12 Dec 2017 16:18:17 +0000 (UTC)
> Subject: Re: Didn't cancel a standing order for a gym
> From: Tim Woodall <new...@woodall.me.uk>
>
> On 2017-12-12, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> > The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
> > merchant AND by the bank.
> >
> > In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
> > bank.
> >
> If it was a DD and the OP cancelled his membership then it must have
> been an error by the gym that they kept collecting it.
It wasn't a DD. The OP already said it was a SO.
> On 2017-12-12, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> > The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
> > merchant AND by the bank.
> >
> > In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
> > bank.
> >
> If it was a DD and the OP cancelled his membership then it must have
> been an error by the gym that they kept collecting it.
Janet.
Roland Perry
Dec 12, 2017, 11:56:44 AM12/12/17
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In message <MPG.349a030...@news.individual.net>, at 15:15:51 on
Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>> The DD guarantee is only supposed to cover the consumer for errors made
>> by the merchant. Or is there evidence to the contrary?
>>
> The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
>merchant AND by the bank.
Fair enough. I was glossing over the negligible number of such errors
likely to be made by the much-regulated bank rather than the slap-happy
merchants.
> In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
>bank.
That's what I had unreliably concluded.
--
Roland Perry
Tue, 12 Dec 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>> The DD guarantee is only supposed to cover the consumer for errors made
>> by the merchant. Or is there evidence to the contrary?
>>
> The DD guarantee covers the account holder for errors made by the
>merchant AND by the bank.
likely to be made by the much-regulated bank rather than the slap-happy
merchants.
> In the OP's case, there's no third party error by the gym or the
>bank.
--
Roland Perry
Fredxx
Dec 12, 2017, 6:13:39 PM12/12/17
to
Tax, the word from the council trumps any word from the individual.
The money might get pulled, but can then be reinstated after they claim
it was due to them.
GB
Dec 14, 2017, 7:19:46 AM12/14/17
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>
>
> Janet.
>
>
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