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VAT on software from America
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Graham Harrison
Apr 9, 2013, 5:00:05 PM4/9/13
to
Is this a legal issue? I've looked for an accountancy group and found one
which seems to be UK related but dead.
I'm looking at buying some software from a US based company based in Ohio.
Delivery will be via download; no physical media of any kind. I've
purchased from this company before and the issue I'm about to describe has
not occurred previously. Billing is in USD.
On their checkout page there is a field:- "VAT ID Number (EU only)". I am
not VAT registered (but I am a limited company, so to speak) therefore I
have no VAT registration number. Leaving the field blank means I get a
message:
"Please note that the United Kingdom is a member of the European Union, but
no VAT ID was entered. The appropriate VAT charge will be added to your
order."
Somehow that doesn't feel right. How does a US company pay VAT collected
to HM Customs (or whatever they're called today)? Then again, if I import
a physical "goods" from the USA then, if it is vatable (like software), I
have to pay VAT except that it's collected by HM Customs on entry from me,
not by the exporter.
Having written that last paragraph I looked for another, similar, piece of
software. The company appears to be Australian but the charging is in USD.
There is no overt mention of VAT. Found another, this time in Canada with
billing in $ (probably Canadian but not sure) and again no mention of VAT.
So, I'm confused. I feel I should be paying VAT (not that I want to!) and
I know and like the software that started me off but what is the legal
position before I commit myself? If I buy one of the non-VAT-charging
alternatives is HMC permitted to bill me at a later date?
which seems to be UK related but dead.
I'm looking at buying some software from a US based company based in Ohio.
Delivery will be via download; no physical media of any kind. I've
purchased from this company before and the issue I'm about to describe has
not occurred previously. Billing is in USD.
On their checkout page there is a field:- "VAT ID Number (EU only)". I am
not VAT registered (but I am a limited company, so to speak) therefore I
have no VAT registration number. Leaving the field blank means I get a
message:
"Please note that the United Kingdom is a member of the European Union, but
no VAT ID was entered. The appropriate VAT charge will be added to your
order."
Somehow that doesn't feel right. How does a US company pay VAT collected
to HM Customs (or whatever they're called today)? Then again, if I import
a physical "goods" from the USA then, if it is vatable (like software), I
have to pay VAT except that it's collected by HM Customs on entry from me,
not by the exporter.
Having written that last paragraph I looked for another, similar, piece of
software. The company appears to be Australian but the charging is in USD.
There is no overt mention of VAT. Found another, this time in Canada with
billing in $ (probably Canadian but not sure) and again no mention of VAT.
So, I'm confused. I feel I should be paying VAT (not that I want to!) and
I know and like the software that started me off but what is the legal
position before I commit myself? If I buy one of the non-VAT-charging
alternatives is HMC permitted to bill me at a later date?
GB
Apr 9, 2013, 5:25:02 PM4/9/13
to
On 09/04/2013 22:00, Graham Harrison wrote:
>
> So, I'm confused. I feel I should be paying VAT (not that I want to!)
> and I know and like the software that started me off but what is the
> legal position before I commit myself? If I buy one of the
> non-VAT-charging alternatives is HMC permitted to bill me at a later date?
You are not the only confused one, it appears. Have a look here.
>
> So, I'm confused. I feel I should be paying VAT (not that I want to!)
> and I know and like the software that started me off but what is the
> legal position before I commit myself? If I buy one of the
> non-VAT-charging alternatives is HMC permitted to bill me at a later date?
http://successfulsoftware.net/2012/11/12/vat-for-software-vendors/
"Even if your business is not based in the EU, the EU still expect you
to pay VAT on any sales inside the EU once you reach a threshold. This
is controversial and it isn’t clear to me exactly what the EU can do to
enforce this if you are based outside the EU. "
Anyway, it appears illogical to me also. Hope it helps that you are not
the only one surprised.
What does the US website do if you put in a made-up VAT number?
Bernard Peek
Apr 9, 2013, 5:40:02 PM4/9/13
to
that includes electronic downloads. Some US companies have set up a
presence in a low-VAT area and that becomes the nominal point of entry
into the EU. If this supplier hasn't then VAT will be payable at the
rate in the country where the bill is paid, presumably the UK in this
case. All of the information you put on the form will be handed over to
the revenue. Putting a fake number on the form would I think be risky.
--
Bernard Peek
b...@shrdlu.com
Nightjar
Apr 9, 2013, 6:45:02 PM4/9/13
to
On 09/04/2013 22:40, Bernard Peek wrote:
....
been issued.
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/
Colin Bignell
....
> The law changed a few years back. VAT is now payable on all imports and
> that includes electronic downloads. Some US companies have set up a
> presence in a low-VAT area and that becomes the nominal point of entry
> into the EU. If this supplier hasn't then VAT will be payable at the
> rate in the country where the bill is paid, presumably the UK in this
> case. All of the information you put on the form will be handed over to
> the revenue. Putting a fake number on the form would I think be risky.
It is very easy to check a number is valid and to confirm to whom it has
> that includes electronic downloads. Some US companies have set up a
> presence in a low-VAT area and that becomes the nominal point of entry
> into the EU. If this supplier hasn't then VAT will be payable at the
> rate in the country where the bill is paid, presumably the UK in this
> case. All of the information you put on the form will be handed over to
> the revenue. Putting a fake number on the form would I think be risky.
been issued.
http://ec.europa.eu/taxation_customs/vies/
Colin Bignell
GB
Apr 9, 2013, 6:25:02 PM4/9/13
to
On 09/04/2013 22:40, Bernard Peek wrote:
That's probably been the case since downloads were invented, but for
years Customs just didn't manage to collect it.
What is surprising here is the suggestion that a company based in the
USA has any obligation to collect the VAT and remit it. Obviously, if
they have an EU subsidiary, that's different.
I can't see why a US software company would provide any info to HMRC,
but in any case what I was interested in was the behaviour of the USA
website, ie whether it only charged VAT if no VAT number was given?
Chris R
Apr 9, 2013, 6:50:01 PM4/9/13
to
>
>
> "Graham Harrison" wrote in message
> news:Zs6dnZRwPbIOHfnM...@bt.com...
threshold they have to register and charge VAT like anyone else - which
isn't really surprising. It's also not surprising that many foreign
businesses will be unaware of this, or will make insufficient taxable
supplies to be required to register. If you are not required to register for
VAT I don't think you can be required to pay it if the supplier doesn't
charge it - unlike in the case of import of physical goods. If you are not
VAT registered it can be valuable to find suppliers who are not VAT
registered.
If you were VAT registered you would enter your VAT number to be exempted
from the charge, but you would also put it on your VAT return; if you do not
reclaim all your VAT you would effectively pay it over to HMRC yourself.
--
Chris R
========legalstuff========
I post to be helpful but not claiming any expertise nor intending
anyone to rely on what I say. Nothing I post here will create a
professional relationship or duty of care. I do not provide legal
services to the public. My posts here refer only to English law except
where specified and are subject to the terms (including limitations of
liability) at http://www.clarityincorporatelaw.co.uk/legalstuff.html
======end legalstuff======
Theo Markettos
Apr 9, 2013, 6:55:02 PM4/9/13
to
Bernard Peek <b...@shrdlu.com> wrote:
> The law changed a few years back. VAT is now payable on all imports and
> that includes electronic downloads.
Are you sure about that? There's the question of Low Value Consignment
> The law changed a few years back. VAT is now payable on all imports and
> that includes electronic downloads.
Relief, which means that VAT isn't payable on goods costing less than £15.
To close a loophole, the Channel Islands aren't eligible for LVCR but other
places are.
> Some US companies have set up a presence in a low-VAT area and that
> becomes the nominal point of entry into the EU.
(and excise duty?) on behalf of HMRC at point of sale - this means that
goods are not held up in customs. The flip side of this is that VAT is
payable on all goods sent to the UK (EU?) by this method, even those not
liable for VAT under LVCR.
Theo
Mark BR
Apr 9, 2013, 11:40:02 PM4/9/13
to
"Bernard Peek" <b...@shrdlu.com> wrote in message
news:asjfrf...@mid.individual.net...
I live in Thailand and am not registered in the UK for VAT, but tend to pay
for things with a UK credit card.
Would I have to pay UK VAT to download software from the USA?
--
Mark BR
Chris R
Apr 10, 2013, 3:10:01 AM4/10/13
to
>
>
> "GB" wrote in message news:51649454$0$1133$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk...
treaties to govern it. Just because you are a foreign company doesn't
entitle you to trade in the UK and not pay tax here.
Certain export sales (including supplies f services deemed to take place
where the recipient is) are not charged to VAT in the supplier's country,
but in the buyer's. To save traders having to register for VAT in every
country of the EU, where the buyer is VAT registered, the import is dealt
with as if they had supplied it to themselves - they put the import on the
VAT return as if it were a sale, then claim back the VAT (if they can) as an
input. In most business to business sales the buyer will be reclaiming the
VAT and this saves a lot of cross-border accounting by the tax authorities
in different countries. Hence being asked for your VAT number.
GB
Apr 10, 2013, 4:30:03 AM4/10/13
to
On 10/04/2013 08:10, Chris R wrote:
> That's why international tax is complicated, and we have networks of
> treaties to govern it. Just because you are a foreign company doesn't
> entitle you to trade in the UK and not pay tax here.
It certainly is non-intuitive.
> That's why international tax is complicated, and we have networks of
> treaties to govern it. Just because you are a foreign company doesn't
> entitle you to trade in the UK and not pay tax here.
>
> Certain export sales (including supplies f services deemed to take place
> where the recipient is) are not charged to VAT in the supplier's country,
> but in the buyer's.
subject to EU VAT laws. However, what is even more unintuitive is that
the supply of a boxed piece of software is not subject to VAT collection
by that company, although it may be when it reaches the EU. However, the
same software sent electronically requires the company to account for
VAT in a convoluted manner.
Chris R
Apr 10, 2013, 5:45:02 AM4/10/13
to
>
>
> "GB" wrote in message news:5165222d$0$23478$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk...
> On 10/04/2013 08:10, Chris R wrote:
>
> > That's why international tax is complicated, and we have networks of
> > treaties to govern it. Just because you are a foreign company doesn't
> > entitle you to trade in the UK and not pay tax here.
>
> It certainly is non-intuitive.
>
I don't think so. You would expect governments to notice that if they only
>
> > That's why international tax is complicated, and we have networks of
> > treaties to govern it. Just because you are a foreign company doesn't
> > entitle you to trade in the UK and not pay tax here.
>
> It certainly is non-intuitive.
>
taxed companies incorporated in their jurisdiction, all businesses would
soon be registered in tax havens. VAT is charged depending on the place of
supply, not the nationality of the supplier.
>
> > Certain export sales (including supplies f services deemed to take place
> > where the recipient is) are not charged to VAT in the supplier's
> > country,
> > but in the buyer's.
>
> It seems extremely odd that a company trading outside the EU can be
> subject to EU VAT laws. However, what is even more unintuitive is that the
> supply of a boxed piece of software is not subject to VAT collection by
> that company, although it may be when it reaches the EU. However, the same
> software sent electronically requires the company to account for VAT in a
> convoluted manner.
>
The same tax gets levied either way, but obviously you can't tax imports of
> > Certain export sales (including supplies f services deemed to take place
> > where the recipient is) are not charged to VAT in the supplier's
> > country,
> > but in the buyer's.
>
> It seems extremely odd that a company trading outside the EU can be
> subject to EU VAT laws. However, what is even more unintuitive is that the
> supply of a boxed piece of software is not subject to VAT collection by
> that company, although it may be when it reaches the EU. However, the same
> software sent electronically requires the company to account for VAT in a
> convoluted manner.
>
services (which according to VAT definitions include everything that is not
goods, including electronic supplies) by having a man standing on the dock
at Harwich. As often with tax matters, the convoluted manner is actually
quite an efficient way of dealing with the problem. If i invoice a client in
Holland for services, as I did recently, I don't charge UK VAT on my
invoice, but the client puts the supply on his own Dutch VAT return both as
a supply and a reclaim. That way VAT gets charged at the Dutch rate on
supplies within Holland, as it should be.
steve robinson
Apr 10, 2013, 5:50:02 AM4/10/13
to
relatively easy, not so for you.
GB
Apr 10, 2013, 6:05:01 AM4/10/13
to
On 10/04/2013 10:50, steve robinson wrote:
> How would you decide where your services are supplied , for me its
> relatively easy, not so for you.
>
I'm not sure what Chris does, so that's a bit opaque.
> How would you decide where your services are supplied , for me its
> relatively easy, not so for you.
>
Selling a piece of software by download - where does the supply take
place? I'd have thought the intuitive answer is at the supplier's
address - there's a hint there in the term 'supplier'.
Chris R
Apr 10, 2013, 6:05:08 AM4/10/13
to
>
>
> "steve robinson" wrote in message
> news:xn0ignin...@reader80.eternal-september.org...
classes of services, including most legal services, are deemed supplied
where the client is.
steve robinson
Apr 10, 2013, 6:30:05 AM4/10/13
to
Chris R wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > "steve robinson" wrote in message
> > news:xn0ignin...@reader80.eternal-september.org...
> >
> > Chris R wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "GB" wrote in message
> > > > news:5165222d$0$23478$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk... On 10/04/2013
> > > > 08:10, Chris R wrote:
> > > The same tax gets levied either way, but obviously you can't tax
> > > imports of services (which according to VAT definitions include
> > > everything that is not goods, including electronic supplies) by
> > > having a man standing on the dock at Harwich. As often with tax
> > > matters, the convoluted manner is actually quite an efficient way
> > > of dealing with the problem. If i invoice a client in Holland for
> > > services, as I did recently, I don't charge UK VAT on my invoice,
> > > but the client puts the supply on his own Dutch VAT return both
> > > as a supply and a reclaim. That way VAT gets charged at the Dutch
> > > rate on supplies within Holland, as it should be.
> >
> > How would you decide where your services are supplied , for me its
> > relatively easy, not so for you.
>
> The authorities decide for you. It's all set out in regulations.
> Certain classes of services, including most legal services, are
> deemed supplied where the client is.
Thanks Chris
>
> >
> >
> > "steve robinson" wrote in message
> > news:xn0ignin...@reader80.eternal-september.org...
> >
> > Chris R wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > "GB" wrote in message
> > > > news:5165222d$0$23478$5b6a...@news.zen.co.uk... On 10/04/2013
> > > > 08:10, Chris R wrote:
> > > The same tax gets levied either way, but obviously you can't tax
> > > imports of services (which according to VAT definitions include
> > > everything that is not goods, including electronic supplies) by
> > > having a man standing on the dock at Harwich. As often with tax
> > > matters, the convoluted manner is actually quite an efficient way
> > > of dealing with the problem. If i invoice a client in Holland for
> > > services, as I did recently, I don't charge UK VAT on my invoice,
> > > but the client puts the supply on his own Dutch VAT return both
> > > as a supply and a reclaim. That way VAT gets charged at the Dutch
> > > rate on supplies within Holland, as it should be.
> >
> > How would you decide where your services are supplied , for me its
> > relatively easy, not so for you.
>
> The authorities decide for you. It's all set out in regulations.
> Certain classes of services, including most legal services, are
> deemed supplied where the client is.
steve robinson
Apr 10, 2013, 6:30:12 AM4/10/13
to
be rather difficult to put a label on it
polygonum
Apr 10, 2013, 3:45:02 AM4/10/13
to
frequently need or wish to buy from abroad, usually USA, and find it
very difficult to either keep value below £15 or make it high enough
that the customs clearing/VAT collection fee is an acceptably low
proportion of the cost. Plus the delay (as you pointed out) and costs of
going to collect the parcel from the PO depot.
We absolutely do not buy to avoid VAT (simply not worth it at this
level), but because of either the selling price, the availability or both.
--
Rod
Flop
Apr 10, 2013, 3:50:09 AM4/10/13
to
On 10/04/2013 08:10, Chris R wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>
companies'.
Usually, online sales are transacted through an agent ( eg Paypal).
So, the company collecting the funds - including the VAT - will have a
huge turnover.
I presume that thresholds etc will be based on the intermediate company.
Logically, their procedures will be correct for such volumes in order to
avoid the wrath of every tax authority in the EU.
Flop
Message has been deleted
Jon Ribbens
Apr 10, 2013, 8:35:02 AM4/10/13
to
On 2013-04-10, Anthony R. Gold <not-fo...@ahjg.co.uk> wrote:
> What does not sound right to me is their implication that no VAT will be
> collected if the buyer claims to be VAT registered. Does that bit make sense
> to anyone?
Yes, that is completely standard. When you buy things from outside the
UK, if you provide a VAT registration number then no VAT is charged.
> What does not sound right to me is their implication that no VAT will be
> collected if the buyer claims to be VAT registered. Does that bit make sense
> to anyone?
Yes, that is completely standard. When you buy things from outside the
UK, if you provide a VAT registration number then no VAT is charged.
Sara
Apr 10, 2013, 9:50:02 AM4/10/13
to
In article <sblam8prjbsv7sc8b...@4ax.com>,
> number inscribed onto the invoice such that it can be reclaimed or offset
> later, but it has nothing to do with any form of exemption. If the seller so
> misunderstands the system I suspect they may simply trouser any collections.
It's not an exemption. If you are VAT registered and buy something from
another EU country then you account for the VAT yourself through the
reverse charge mechanism. But *only* if the seller has your VAT number.
A strange system, but it does seem to work.
--
Sara
cats cats cats cats cats
> On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 22:00:05 +0100, "Graham Harrison"
> <edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Is this a legal issue? I've looked for an accountancy group and found one
> > which seems to be UK related but dead.
> >
> > I'm looking at buying some software from a US based company based in Ohio.
> > Delivery will be via download; no physical media of any kind. I've
> > purchased from this company before and the issue I'm about to describe has
> > not occurred previously. Billing is in USD.
> >
> > On their checkout page there is a field:- "VAT ID Number (EU only)". I am
> > not VAT registered (but I am a limited company, so to speak) therefore I
> > have no VAT registration number. Leaving the field blank means I get a
> > message:
> >
> > "Please note that the United Kingdom is a member of the European Union, but
> > no VAT ID was entered. The appropriate VAT charge will be added to your
> > order."
> >
> > Somehow that doesn't feel right. How does a US company pay VAT collected
> > to HM Customs (or whatever they're called today)? Then again, if I import
> > a physical "goods" from the USA then, if it is vatable (like software), I
> > have to pay VAT except that it's collected by HM Customs on entry from me,
> > not by the exporter.
>
> <edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> wrote:
>
> > Is this a legal issue? I've looked for an accountancy group and found one
> > which seems to be UK related but dead.
> >
> > I'm looking at buying some software from a US based company based in Ohio.
> > Delivery will be via download; no physical media of any kind. I've
> > purchased from this company before and the issue I'm about to describe has
> > not occurred previously. Billing is in USD.
> >
> > On their checkout page there is a field:- "VAT ID Number (EU only)". I am
> > not VAT registered (but I am a limited company, so to speak) therefore I
> > have no VAT registration number. Leaving the field blank means I get a
> > message:
> >
> > "Please note that the United Kingdom is a member of the European Union, but
> > no VAT ID was entered. The appropriate VAT charge will be added to your
> > order."
> >
> > Somehow that doesn't feel right. How does a US company pay VAT collected
> > to HM Customs (or whatever they're called today)? Then again, if I import
> > a physical "goods" from the USA then, if it is vatable (like software), I
> > have to pay VAT except that it's collected by HM Customs on entry from me,
> > not by the exporter.
>
> What does not sound right to me is their implication that no VAT will be
> collected if the buyer claims to be VAT registered. Does that bit make sense
> to anyone? AFAIK the use of one's VAT registration is in order to have that
> collected if the buyer claims to be VAT registered. Does that bit make sense
> number inscribed onto the invoice such that it can be reclaimed or offset
> later, but it has nothing to do with any form of exemption. If the seller so
> misunderstands the system I suspect they may simply trouser any collections.
It's not an exemption. If you are VAT registered and buy something from
another EU country then you account for the VAT yourself through the
reverse charge mechanism. But *only* if the seller has your VAT number.
A strange system, but it does seem to work.
--
Sara
cats cats cats cats cats
Steve Firth
Apr 10, 2013, 11:35:02 AM4/10/13
to
prefer the process used for software downloads. We provide the company VAT
number and account for VAT ourselves as usual each quarter. Small purchases
of hardware that are shipped via couriers are a PITA. The courier (usually
Parcel
Force) demands we pay the VAT (plus their handling charge) before delivery
but refuses to
Issue a VAT receipt "because we're not VAT registered". We therefore have
no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax
they have not collected.
--
<•DarWin><|
_/ _/
Roland Perry
Apr 10, 2013, 12:15:02 PM4/10/13
to
In message
<636448890387295172.702671%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.org
>, at 16:35:02 on Wed, 10 Apr 2013, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk>
remarked:
have no hesitation in using their 'proforma invoice' as a VAT receipt,
and if HMR&C questioned it ask them to take it up with their agents.
I still have a bone to pick with Parcelforce for wrongly charging me VAT
on an overseas gift of childrens' shoes. The form for registering a
complaint says you have to get the sender to confirm in writing that
it's a gift, but that's not the issue, it's being childrens' shoes which
is the issue. Currently still in my "too difficult" box.
--
Roland Perry
<636448890387295172.702671%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.org
>, at 16:35:02 on Wed, 10 Apr 2013, Steve Firth <%steve%@malloc.co.uk>
remarked:
>Small purchases of hardware that are shipped via couriers are a PITA.
>The courier (usually Parcel Force) demands we pay the VAT (plus their
>handling charge) before delivery but refuses to Issue a VAT receipt
>"because we're not VAT registered". We therefore have no way of
>recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax they
>have not collected.
Parcelforce claim to be "agents of HMR&C" in such matters, and I would
>The courier (usually Parcel Force) demands we pay the VAT (plus their
>handling charge) before delivery but refuses to Issue a VAT receipt
>"because we're not VAT registered". We therefore have no way of
>recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax they
>have not collected.
have no hesitation in using their 'proforma invoice' as a VAT receipt,
and if HMR&C questioned it ask them to take it up with their agents.
I still have a bone to pick with Parcelforce for wrongly charging me VAT
on an overseas gift of childrens' shoes. The form for registering a
complaint says you have to get the sender to confirm in writing that
it's a gift, but that's not the issue, it's being childrens' shoes which
is the issue. Currently still in my "too difficult" box.
--
Roland Perry
Tim Jackson
Apr 10, 2013, 12:35:09 PM4/10/13
to
On Wed, 10 Apr 2013 17:15:02 +0100, Roland Perry wrote...
> I still have a bone to pick with Parcelforce for wrongly charging me VAT
> on an overseas gift of childrens' shoes. The form for registering a
> complaint says you have to get the sender to confirm in writing that
> it's a gift, but that's not the issue, it's being childrens' shoes which
> is the issue. Currently still in my "too difficult" box.
In the absence of confirmation it was a gift, presumably the complaint
is not that they charged VAT, but that that they charged it at the wrong
rate? Should have been charged at 0%, not 20%?
--
Tim Jackson
ne...@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
> I still have a bone to pick with Parcelforce for wrongly charging me VAT
> on an overseas gift of childrens' shoes. The form for registering a
> complaint says you have to get the sender to confirm in writing that
> it's a gift, but that's not the issue, it's being childrens' shoes which
> is the issue. Currently still in my "too difficult" box.
is not that they charged VAT, but that that they charged it at the wrong
rate? Should have been charged at 0%, not 20%?
--
Tim Jackson
ne...@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
Sara
Apr 10, 2013, 11:55:02 AM4/10/13
to
In article
<636448890387295172.702671%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.or
g>,
Yes, I've had that problem too. Complete pain the in thingy.
<636448890387295172.702671%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.or
g>,
Fredxx
Apr 10, 2013, 12:00:10 PM4/10/13
to
VAT is only charged in the EU where the recipient is also in the EU and
does not have a VAT number.
If the supplier is in the EU, and the customer is also in the EU, and
the customer can supply a VAT number then the supplier does not add VAT
to the exclusive price.
If the supplier is outside of the EU, then VAT may be payable, but the
responsibility is that of the importer/customer. The supplier outside
of the EU cannot charge VAT on behalf of any EU country.
I actually thought software downloads not incorporating any hardware were
exempt from duty and VAT.
Roland Perry
Apr 10, 2013, 2:30:03 PM4/10/13
to
In message <MPG.2bcfa23cd...@text.usenet.plus.net>, at
17:35:09 on Wed, 10 Apr 2013, Tim Jackson <ne...@timjackson.invalid>
remarked:
way it was wrong.
--
Roland Perry
17:35:09 on Wed, 10 Apr 2013, Tim Jackson <ne...@timjackson.invalid>
remarked:
>> I still have a bone to pick with Parcelforce for wrongly charging me VAT
>> on an overseas gift of childrens' shoes. The form for registering a
>> complaint says you have to get the sender to confirm in writing that
>> it's a gift, but that's not the issue, it's being childrens' shoes which
>> is the issue. Currently still in my "too difficult" box.
>
>In the absence of confirmation it was a gift, presumably the complaint
>is not that they charged VAT, but that that they charged it at the wrong
>rate? Should have been charged at 0%, not 20%?
It was marked as a gift, and should have been assessed at 0%, so either
>> on an overseas gift of childrens' shoes. The form for registering a
>> complaint says you have to get the sender to confirm in writing that
>> it's a gift, but that's not the issue, it's being childrens' shoes which
>> is the issue. Currently still in my "too difficult" box.
>
>In the absence of confirmation it was a gift, presumably the complaint
>is not that they charged VAT, but that that they charged it at the wrong
>rate? Should have been charged at 0%, not 20%?
way it was wrong.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Apr 10, 2013, 3:55:08 PM4/10/13
to
In message <kk41v6$sj4$1...@dont-email.me>, at 17:00:10 on Wed, 10 Apr
2013, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.com> remarked:
effect impounds it, raises a proforma invoice for the VAT, refuses to
discuss anything at all, and if you don't pay in (I think) 2 weeks sends
it back from whence it came.
--
Roland Perry
2013, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.com> remarked:
>> My company sources equipment and software from the USA and, in
>> general, I prefer the process used for software downloads. We
>> provide the company VAT number and account for VAT ourselves as usual
>> each quarter. Small purchases of hardware that are shipped via
>> couriers are a PITA. The courier (usually Parcel Force) demands we
>> pay the VAT (plus their handling charge) before delivery but refuses
>> to Issue a VAT receipt "because we're not VAT registered". We
>> therefore have no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier
>> can't invoice for a tax they have not collected.
>
>I'm now thoroughly confused. I thought:
>
>VAT is only charged in the EU where the recipient is also in the EU and
>does not have a VAT number.
>
>If the supplier is in the EU, and the customer is also in the EU, and
>the customer can supply a VAT number then the supplier does not add VAT
>to the exclusive price.
>
>If the supplier is outside of the EU, then VAT may be payable, but the
>responsibility is that of the importer/customer. The supplier outside
>of the EU cannot charge VAT on behalf of any EU country.
If something arrives from outside the EU by post, then Parcelforce in
>> general, I prefer the process used for software downloads. We
>> provide the company VAT number and account for VAT ourselves as usual
>> each quarter. Small purchases of hardware that are shipped via
>> couriers are a PITA. The courier (usually Parcel Force) demands we
>> pay the VAT (plus their handling charge) before delivery but refuses
>> to Issue a VAT receipt "because we're not VAT registered". We
>> therefore have no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier
>> can't invoice for a tax they have not collected.
>
>I'm now thoroughly confused. I thought:
>
>VAT is only charged in the EU where the recipient is also in the EU and
>does not have a VAT number.
>
>If the supplier is in the EU, and the customer is also in the EU, and
>the customer can supply a VAT number then the supplier does not add VAT
>to the exclusive price.
>
>If the supplier is outside of the EU, then VAT may be payable, but the
>responsibility is that of the importer/customer. The supplier outside
>of the EU cannot charge VAT on behalf of any EU country.
effect impounds it, raises a proforma invoice for the VAT, refuses to
discuss anything at all, and if you don't pay in (I think) 2 weeks sends
it back from whence it came.
--
Roland Perry
Graham Harrison
Apr 10, 2013, 6:25:01 PM4/10/13
to
"polygonum" <rmoud...@vrod.co.uk> wrote in message
news:askjal...@mid.individual.net...
Separate issue from the original question but I recently purchased a model
railway locomotive from a USA supplier who sent it DHL. The deliveryman
turned up and asked for VAT plus a £10 fee (which I thought wasn't that
excessive). When I've done the same with other suppliers who use the post
office one of two things has happened. In one case they sent me a note and
would only deliver after I'd paid up but in the 2nd they attached a notice
to the parcel and simply left it on my doorstep. When I tried to pay using
the web service it kept rejecting the transaction (I tried several times) so
I gave up assuming they'd chase me at some point and they never did.
Steve Firth
Apr 10, 2013, 7:10:02 PM4/10/13
to
Sara <sarame...@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote:
> In article
> <636448890387295172.702671%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.or
[snip]
>> We therefore have
>> no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax
>> they have not collected.
>
> Yes, I've had that problem too. Complete pain the in thingy.
I can't even see what Parcel Force gain from this. It hacks off people. To
Parcel Force we are not their customer, the sender is. This is very short
sighted thinking on their part because obviously we also send out parcels
and we're hardly likely to hand custom to those who treat our business
unfairly or unhelpfully.
Sorry to hear you get it too, Of course PF try to convince me that I'm the
only complainant.
--
<•DarWin><|
_/ _/
> In article
> <636448890387295172.702671%steve%-mallo...@news.eternal-september.or
[snip]
>> We therefore have
>> no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax
>> they have not collected.
>
> Yes, I've had that problem too. Complete pain the in thingy.
Parcel Force we are not their customer, the sender is. This is very short
sighted thinking on their part because obviously we also send out parcels
and we're hardly likely to hand custom to those who treat our business
unfairly or unhelpfully.
Sorry to hear you get it too, Of course PF try to convince me that I'm the
only complainant.
--
<•DarWin><|
_/ _/
Fredxx
Apr 10, 2013, 8:35:01 PM4/10/13
to
can't obtain a VAT number?
Nightjar
Apr 11, 2013, 4:30:04 AM4/11/13
to
On 10/04/2013 16:35, Steve Firth wrote:
....
> My company sources equipment and software from the USA and, in general, I
> prefer the process used for software downloads. We provide the company VAT
> number and account for VAT ourselves as usual each quarter. Small purchases
> of hardware that are shipped via couriers are a PITA. The courier (usually
> Parcel
> Force) demands we pay the VAT (plus their handling charge) before delivery
> but refuses to
> Issue a VAT receipt "because we're not VAT registered". We therefore have
> no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax
> they have not collected.
My imports came in huge lorries, strapped to pallets, so I have no
> prefer the process used for software downloads. We provide the company VAT
> number and account for VAT ourselves as usual each quarter. Small purchases
> of hardware that are shipped via couriers are a PITA. The courier (usually
> Parcel
> Force) demands we pay the VAT (plus their handling charge) before delivery
> but refuses to
> Issue a VAT receipt "because we're not VAT registered". We therefore have
> no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax
> they have not collected.
personal experience of ParcelForce as an import agent. However, I
thought all agents were supposed to inform HMRC of VAT paid when goods
left their warehouse. Then HMRC would issue a monthly import VAT
certificate, form C79, as your proof of VAT. If they don't do that, it
might be worth raising the issue with the Customs & International team
at Southend.
Colin Bignell
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2013, 4:40:02 AM4/11/13
to
In message <I_OdnVwQq57Je_jM...@bt.com>, at 23:25:01 on
Wed, 10 Apr 2013, Graham Harrison
<edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> remarked:
received from the USA before Xmas was pretty easy. I paid the fees
online and Parcelforce delivered the next day.
--
Roland Perry
Wed, 10 Apr 2013, Graham Harrison
<edward.h...@remove.btinternet.com> remarked:
>We frequently need or wish to buy from abroad, usually USA, and find it
>very difficult to either keep value below £15 or make it high enough
>that the customs clearing/VAT collection fee is an acceptably low
>proportion of the cost. Plus the delay (as you pointed out) and costs
>of going to collect the parcel from the PO depot.
While I disagree with the charge, everything else about the parcel I
>very difficult to either keep value below £15 or make it high enough
>that the customs clearing/VAT collection fee is an acceptably low
>proportion of the cost. Plus the delay (as you pointed out) and costs
>of going to collect the parcel from the PO depot.
received from the USA before Xmas was pretty easy. I paid the fees
online and Parcelforce delivered the next day.
--
Roland Perry
polygonum
Apr 11, 2013, 4:40:02 AM4/11/13
to
On 11/04/2013 09:30, Nightjar wrote:
> On 10/04/2013 16:35, Steve Firth wrote:
> .....
> On 10/04/2013 16:35, Steve Firth wrote:
In the absence of a C79 to evidence payment of VAT, commercial
documentation may be accepted to support claims for input tax, provided
it provides all the necessary information.
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/insmanual/ins12705.htm
--
Rod
Nightjar
Apr 11, 2013, 7:50:02 AM4/11/13
to
On 11/04/2013 09:40, polygonum wrote:
> On 11/04/2013 09:30, Nightjar wrote:
....
> On 11/04/2013 09:30, Nightjar wrote:
>> My imports came in huge lorries, strapped to pallets, so I have no
>> personal experience of ParcelForce as an import agent. However, I
>> thought all agents were supposed to inform HMRC of VAT paid when goods
>> left their warehouse. Then HMRC would issue a monthly import VAT
>> certificate, form C79, as your proof of VAT. If they don't do that, it
>> might be worth raising the issue with the Customs & International team
>> at Southend.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>>
> HMRC guidance says:
>
> In the absence of a C79 to evidence payment of VAT, commercial
> documentation may be accepted to support claims for input tax, provided
> it provides all the necessary information.
>
> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/insmanual/ins12705.htm
I would have thought that 'all necessary information' would include the
>> personal experience of ParcelForce as an import agent. However, I
>> thought all agents were supposed to inform HMRC of VAT paid when goods
>> left their warehouse. Then HMRC would issue a monthly import VAT
>> certificate, form C79, as your proof of VAT. If they don't do that, it
>> might be worth raising the issue with the Customs & International team
>> at Southend.
>>
>> Colin Bignell
>>
> HMRC guidance says:
>
> In the absence of a C79 to evidence payment of VAT, commercial
> documentation may be accepted to support claims for input tax, provided
> it provides all the necessary information.
>
> http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/manuals/insmanual/ins12705.htm
amount of VAT paid.
Colin Bignell
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2013, 8:30:01 AM4/11/13
to
In message <HeOdnRnhDO6XPvvM...@giganews.com>, at 12:50:02
on Thu, 11 Apr 2013, Nightjar <c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk>
remarked:
The bill from Parcelforce has that, surely? or do they just say "pay us
£xx.yy and we refuse to tell the customer on what basis.
--
Roland Perry
on Thu, 11 Apr 2013, Nightjar <c...@insert.my.surname.here.me.uk>
remarked:
£xx.yy and we refuse to tell the customer on what basis.
--
Roland Perry
Nightjar
Apr 11, 2013, 9:20:01 AM4/11/13
to
only going by what has been posted here, which seems to suggest that it
is not possible to reclaim the VAT they charge without additional
documentation.
Colin Bignell
Man at B&Q
Apr 11, 2013, 10:25:01 AM4/11/13
to
On 11 Apr, 13:30, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message <HeOdnRnhDO6XPvvMnZ2dnUVZ_sOdn...@giganews.com>, at 12:50:02
There is a sticker on the parcel that is itemised with VAT, duty and
PFs fee (you have to return this to HMRC in the case of a dispute).
The advice letter also itemises all of the charges. So the VAT amount
is listed clearly and separately. The problem I ususally have is that
they use the wrong "official rate" for currency conversion and/or
apply the wrong duty rate. So far I am ahead of the game.
MBQ
> In message <HeOdnRnhDO6XPvvMnZ2dnUVZ_sOdn...@giganews.com>, at 12:50:02
PFs fee (you have to return this to HMRC in the case of a dispute).
The advice letter also itemises all of the charges. So the VAT amount
is listed clearly and separately. The problem I ususally have is that
they use the wrong "official rate" for currency conversion and/or
apply the wrong duty rate. So far I am ahead of the game.
MBQ
Nogood Boyo
Apr 11, 2013, 2:10:01 PM4/11/13
to
On 10 Apr, 16:35, Steve Firth <%ste...@malloc.co.uk> wrote:
> My company sources equipment and software from the USA and, in general, I
> prefer the process used for software downloads. We provide the company VAT
> number and account for VAT ourselves as usual each quarter. Small purchases
> of hardware that are shipped via couriers are a PITA. The courier (usually
> Parcel
> Force) demands we pay the VAT (plus their handling charge) before delivery
> but refuses to
> Issue a VAT receipt "because we're not VAT registered". We therefore have
> no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax
> they have not collected.
>
Don't confuse:
> My company sources equipment and software from the USA and, in general, I
> prefer the process used for software downloads. We provide the company VAT
> number and account for VAT ourselves as usual each quarter. Small purchases
> of hardware that are shipped via couriers are a PITA. The courier (usually
> Parcel
> Force) demands we pay the VAT (plus their handling charge) before delivery
> but refuses to
> Issue a VAT receipt "because we're not VAT registered". We therefore have
> no way of recovering the VAT because the supplier can't invoice for a tax
> they have not collected.
>
(a) the VAT due on imports of goods (which is chargeable as a duty of
customs and might be collected for HMRC by a courier) with the VAT (if
any) due on a courier's own supply of services; and
(b) imports of goods with imports of services.
For imports of goods (eg boxed software) the evidence for recovery of
import VAT is not an invoice from the courier but a certificate issued
by HMRC (see VAT Notice 702). The courier's supply is probably zero-
rated and, if they only make zero-rated supplies, they needn't
register for VAT. So you shouldn't expect a VAT invoice from the
courier.
The original post was about downloaded software supplied from outside
the EC, which is a supply of services (see VAT Notice 744, para
15.12.2). The place of supply for such services depends on whether the
UK customer is a business (B2B = business to business) or a consumer
(B2C = business to consumer). For B2B supplies the basic principle is
that the place of supply is where the customer belongs. For B2C
supplies it's where the supplier belongs.
B2B supply, non-EC supplier, UK customer registered for VAT - customer
accounts for VAT under reverse charge procedure.
B2B supply, non-EC supplier, UK customer NOT registered for VAT -
supplier has to register for VAT (if over the registration limit) and
has to charge and account for VAT to HMRC.
B2C supply, non-EC supplier, UK non-business customer - place of
supply is where the supplier belongs and is therefore outside the
scope of VAT.
Simples..! :-)
--
Nogood Boyo
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2013, 5:25:02 PM4/11/13
to
In message
<a7a029fe-2d83-4d38...@a14g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, at
19:10:01 on Thu, 11 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynys...@gmail.com> remarked:
not, as I first thought, any VAT on the postage cost).
--
Roland Perry
<a7a029fe-2d83-4d38...@a14g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>, at
19:10:01 on Thu, 11 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynys...@gmail.com> remarked:
>
>B2B supply, non-EC supplier, UK customer registered for VAT - customer
>accounts for VAT under reverse charge procedure.
>
>B2B supply, non-EC supplier, UK customer NOT registered for VAT -
>supplier has to register for VAT (if over the registration limit) and
>has to charge and account for VAT to HMRC.
>
>B2C supply, non-EC supplier, UK non-business customer - place of
>supply is where the supplier belongs and is therefore outside the
>scope of VAT.
What about a C2C xmas present. Charged at 20% VAT by Parcelforce? (And
>B2B supply, non-EC supplier, UK customer registered for VAT - customer
>accounts for VAT under reverse charge procedure.
>
>B2B supply, non-EC supplier, UK customer NOT registered for VAT -
>supplier has to register for VAT (if over the registration limit) and
>has to charge and account for VAT to HMRC.
>
>B2C supply, non-EC supplier, UK non-business customer - place of
>supply is where the supplier belongs and is therefore outside the
>scope of VAT.
not, as I first thought, any VAT on the postage cost).
--
Roland Perry
Nogood Boyo
Apr 11, 2013, 5:50:02 PM4/11/13
to
On Apr 11, 10:25 pm, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> What about a C2C xmas present. Charged at 20% VAT by Parcelforce? (And
> not, as I first thought, any VAT on the postage cost).
If you think VAT was charged in error (eg, because the item should
> What about a C2C xmas present. Charged at 20% VAT by Parcelforce? (And
> not, as I first thought, any VAT on the postage cost).
have been zero-rated), I think you'll find guidance on the HMRC
website. Gifts aren't free of VAT per se.
--
Nogood Boyo
Roland Perry
Apr 12, 2013, 3:10:01 AM4/12/13
to
In message
<d3f29409-ca43-4494...@y2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, at
22:50:02 on Thu, 11 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynys...@gmail.com> remarked:
from the sender that the item is a gift, irrespective of the "wrong
rate" issue that's the real problem.
>Gifts aren't free of VAT per se.
I know. But C2C supplies didn't feature in the list I was responding to,
so was interested what rule the poster thought would apply.
--
Roland Perry
<d3f29409-ca43-4494...@y2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, at
22:50:02 on Thu, 11 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynys...@gmail.com> remarked:
>> What about a C2C xmas present. Charged at 20% VAT by Parcelforce? (And
>> not, as I first thought, any VAT on the postage cost).
>
>If you think VAT was charged in error (eg, because the item should
>have been zero-rated), I think you'll find guidance on the HMRC
>website.
Yes, there's a form to fill in, which seems to require a declaration
>> not, as I first thought, any VAT on the postage cost).
>
>If you think VAT was charged in error (eg, because the item should
>have been zero-rated), I think you'll find guidance on the HMRC
>website.
from the sender that the item is a gift, irrespective of the "wrong
rate" issue that's the real problem.
>Gifts aren't free of VAT per se.
so was interested what rule the poster thought would apply.
--
Roland Perry
David.WE.Roberts
Apr 12, 2013, 5:00:04 AM4/12/13
to
On Tue, 09 Apr 2013 23:50:01 +0100, Chris R wrote:
<snip>
>
> If you were VAT registered you would enter your VAT number to be
> exempted from the charge, but you would also put it on your VAT return;
> if you do not reclaim all your VAT you would effectively pay it over to
> HMRC yourself.
The above explanation does not seem to compute.
If you are exempted from the charge (i.e. do not pay any VAT to the
supplier) then you do not have any VAT to reclaim.
AIUI you normally pay VAT and then offset the VAT you have paid against
the VAT you have collected. If you pay more than you collect you get a
refund from HMRC.
I don't at the moment see how you can reclaim something that you have not
paid.
Cheers
Dave R
<snip>
>
> If you were VAT registered you would enter your VAT number to be
> exempted from the charge, but you would also put it on your VAT return;
> if you do not reclaim all your VAT you would effectively pay it over to
> HMRC yourself.
The above explanation does not seem to compute.
If you are exempted from the charge (i.e. do not pay any VAT to the
supplier) then you do not have any VAT to reclaim.
AIUI you normally pay VAT and then offset the VAT you have paid against
the VAT you have collected. If you pay more than you collect you get a
refund from HMRC.
I don't at the moment see how you can reclaim something that you have not
paid.
Cheers
Dave R
Nogood Boyo
Apr 12, 2013, 6:25:02 AM4/12/13
to
> <d3f29409-ca43-4494-a411-b848d9f07...@y2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, at
> 22:50:02 on Thu, 11 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynyst...@gmail.com> remarked:
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/bor286.pdf
There's a reference on the form to gifts but it doesn't seem to me to
need to provide evidence that it's a gift if you're relying on the
provisions relating to gifts. If you're just claiming that it's zero-
rated as childrens clothing, the bit about gifts can be disregarded.
--
Nogood Boyo
> 22:50:02 on Thu, 11 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynyst...@gmail.com> remarked:
>
> >> What about a C2C xmas present. Charged at 20% VAT by Parcelforce? (And
> >> not, as I first thought, any VAT on the postage cost).
>
> >If you think VAT was charged in error (eg, because the item should
> >have been zero-rated), I think you'll find guidance on the HMRC
> >website.
>
> Yes, there's a form to fill in, which seems to require a declaration
> from the sender that the item is a gift, irrespective of the "wrong
> rate" issue that's the real problem.
>
Are you looking at HMRC Notice 143 and form BOR286..?
> >> What about a C2C xmas present. Charged at 20% VAT by Parcelforce? (And
> >> not, as I first thought, any VAT on the postage cost).
>
> >If you think VAT was charged in error (eg, because the item should
> >have been zero-rated), I think you'll find guidance on the HMRC
> >website.
>
> Yes, there's a form to fill in, which seems to require a declaration
> from the sender that the item is a gift, irrespective of the "wrong
> rate" issue that's the real problem.
>
http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/bor286.pdf
There's a reference on the form to gifts but it doesn't seem to me to
"require a declaration from the sender that the item is a gift,
irrespective of the "wrong rate" issue". The way I read it, you only
need to provide evidence that it's a gift if you're relying on the
provisions relating to gifts. If you're just claiming that it's zero-
rated as childrens clothing, the bit about gifts can be disregarded.
--
Nogood Boyo
Roland Perry
Apr 12, 2013, 7:20:03 AM4/12/13
to
In message
<8708d799-9526-4b41...@m1g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, at
11:25:02 on Fri, 12 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynys...@gmail.com> remarked:
Yes.
>There's a reference on the form to gifts but it doesn't seem to me to
>"require a declaration from the sender that the item is a gift,
>irrespective of the "wrong rate" issue". The way I read it, you only
>need to provide evidence that it's a gift if you're relying on the
>provisions relating to gifts. If you're just claiming that it's zero-
>rated as childrens clothing, the bit about gifts can be disregarded.
The form clearly states "If the parcel is a gift from someone abroad
please provide written confirmation from the sender." quite distinct
from asking you what the nature of the claim is.
--
Roland Perry
<8708d799-9526-4b41...@m1g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, at
11:25:02 on Fri, 12 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynys...@gmail.com> remarked:
Yes.
>There's a reference on the form to gifts but it doesn't seem to me to
>"require a declaration from the sender that the item is a gift,
>irrespective of the "wrong rate" issue". The way I read it, you only
>need to provide evidence that it's a gift if you're relying on the
>provisions relating to gifts. If you're just claiming that it's zero-
>rated as childrens clothing, the bit about gifts can be disregarded.
please provide written confirmation from the sender." quite distinct
from asking you what the nature of the claim is.
--
Roland Perry
Chris R
Apr 12, 2013, 8:10:09 AM4/12/13
to
>
>
> "David.WE.Roberts" wrote in message
> news:asq0f8...@mid.individual.net...
you were the supplier (though in a separate box) and pay the VAT that way.
So you pay UK VAT rather than the supplier charging and paying over VAT in
their own country. You then also put down the purchase as input VAT in the
normal way. So you both pay the VAT and reclaim it on the same return. For
most businesses the supplies cancel each other out, but in some cases you
might not be able to reclaim the whole of the input VAT, leading to a net
liability.
--
Chris R
========legalstuff========
I post to be helpful but not claiming any expertise nor intending
anyone to rely on what I say. Nothing I post here will create a
professional relationship or duty of care. I do not provide legal
services to the public. My posts here refer only to English law except
where specified and are subject to the terms (including limitations of
liability) at http://www.clarityincorporatelaw.co.uk/legalstuff.html
======end legalstuff======
Nogood Boyo
Apr 12, 2013, 1:25:02 PM4/12/13
to
> <8708d799-9526-4b41-9a11-c0e139e87...@m1g2000vbe.googlegroups.com>, at
> 11:25:02 on Fri, 12 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynyst...@gmail.com> remarked:
charges are incorrect providing as much detail as possible". I
wouldn't let the gift bit stop me submitting a claim on the basis of
zero-rating.
--
Nogood Boyo
> 11:25:02 on Fri, 12 Apr 2013, Nogood Boyo <ynyst...@gmail.com> remarked:
>
> >Are you looking at HMRC Notice 143 and form BOR286..?
> >http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/bor286.pdf
>
> Yes.
>
> >There's a reference on the form to gifts but it doesn't seem to me to
> >"require a declaration from the sender that the item is a gift,
> >irrespective of the "wrong rate" issue". The way I read it, you only
> >need to provide evidence that it's a gift if you're relying on the
> >provisions relating to gifts. If you're just claiming that it's zero-
> >rated as childrens clothing, the bit about gifts can be disregarded.
>
> The form clearly states "If the parcel is a gift from someone abroad
> please provide written confirmation from the sender." quite distinct
> from asking you what the nature of the claim is.
>
Sloppy form design. Before that you get to "explain why you think the
> >Are you looking at HMRC Notice 143 and form BOR286..?
> >http://www.hmrc.gov.uk/forms/bor286.pdf
>
> Yes.
>
> >There's a reference on the form to gifts but it doesn't seem to me to
> >"require a declaration from the sender that the item is a gift,
> >irrespective of the "wrong rate" issue". The way I read it, you only
> >need to provide evidence that it's a gift if you're relying on the
> >provisions relating to gifts. If you're just claiming that it's zero-
> >rated as childrens clothing, the bit about gifts can be disregarded.
>
> The form clearly states "If the parcel is a gift from someone abroad
> please provide written confirmation from the sender." quite distinct
> from asking you what the nature of the claim is.
>
charges are incorrect providing as much detail as possible". I
wouldn't let the gift bit stop me submitting a claim on the basis of
zero-rating.
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Nogood Boyo
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