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Previous owner won't clear his possessions out of house
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Sla#s
Aug 17, 2012, 8:30:02 AM8/17/12
to
What is the position when the previous owner will not clear his possessions
out of a house and one is unable to contact him?
He said he would clear them before exchange of contracts - he didn't
He said he would clear them before completion - he didn't.
Now nearly a month later neither the estate agents nor both solicitors are
able to contact him.
Can the stuff be dumped - one of the items is an old car?
Slatts
out of a house and one is unable to contact him?
He said he would clear them before exchange of contracts - he didn't
He said he would clear them before completion - he didn't.
Now nearly a month later neither the estate agents nor both solicitors are
able to contact him.
Can the stuff be dumped - one of the items is an old car?
Slatts
Ian Jackson
Aug 17, 2012, 12:10:02 PM8/17/12
to
In message <k0ld86$5jt$1...@localhost.localdomain>, Sla#s
<ph...@knot-slatts.net> writes
Shouldn't the contract mention 'vacant possession'? It looks like the
previous owner has not kept his side of the bargain, and is therefore in
breach of contract. But if he's disappeared, it might be rather
difficult to do anything about it.
However, if the old car were to somehow appear out in the road, untaxed,
un-MOTed and uninsured, I'm sure that the police might be able to help!
--
Ian
<ph...@knot-slatts.net> writes
previous owner has not kept his side of the bargain, and is therefore in
breach of contract. But if he's disappeared, it might be rather
difficult to do anything about it.
However, if the old car were to somehow appear out in the road, untaxed,
un-MOTed and uninsured, I'm sure that the police might be able to help!
--
Ian
Stephen Wolstenholme
Aug 17, 2012, 12:55:11 PM8/17/12
to
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 13:30:02 +0100, "Sla#s" <ph...@knot-slatts.net>
wrote:
That happened to me a few decades ago. In my case the house had been
rented and the last tenant left lots of items when he moved. I could
not contact him so I sold the lot to a house clearance company. If the
tenant ever returns I owe him £110
Steve
--
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
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JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
wrote:
rented and the last tenant left lots of items when he moved. I could
not contact him so I sold the lot to a house clearance company. If the
tenant ever returns I owe him £110
Steve
--
Neural Network Software. http://www.npsl1.com
EasyNN-plus. Neural Networks plus. http://www.easynn.com
SwingNN. Forecast with Neural Networks. http://www.swingnn.com
JustNN. Just Neural Networks. http://www.justnn.com
Sla#s
Aug 17, 2012, 2:45:03 PM8/17/12
to
Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <k0ld86$5jt$1...@localhost.localdomain>, Sla#s
> <ph...@knot-slatts.net> writes
>> What is the position when the previous owner will not clear his
>> possessions out of a house and one is unable to contact him?
>> He said he would clear them before exchange of contracts - he didn't
>> He said he would clear them before completion - he didn't.
>> Now nearly a month later neither the estate agents nor both
>> solicitors are able to contact him.
>>
>> Can the stuff be dumped - one of the items is an old car?
>>
> Shouldn't the contract mention 'vacant possession'? It looks like the
> previous owner has not kept his side of the bargain, and is therefore
> in breach of contract. But if he's disappeared, it might be rather
> difficult to do anything about it.
Obviously one will have to go back to solicitors first and send a couple of
> In message <k0ld86$5jt$1...@localhost.localdomain>, Sla#s
> <ph...@knot-slatts.net> writes
>> What is the position when the previous owner will not clear his
>> possessions out of a house and one is unable to contact him?
>> He said he would clear them before exchange of contracts - he didn't
>> He said he would clear them before completion - he didn't.
>> Now nearly a month later neither the estate agents nor both
>> solicitors are able to contact him.
>>
>> Can the stuff be dumped - one of the items is an old car?
>>
> Shouldn't the contract mention 'vacant possession'? It looks like the
> previous owner has not kept his side of the bargain, and is therefore
> in breach of contract. But if he's disappeared, it might be rather
> difficult to do anything about it.
warning letters but is it a case of just dumping the lot in a skip and suing
him for the costs - not that it would be worth it if one can't find him!
He's already got a CCJ for unpaid bills!
>
> However, if the old car were to somehow appear out in the road,
> untaxed, un-MOTed and uninsured, I'm sure that the police might be
> able to help!
Slatts
tim.....
Aug 17, 2012, 3:15:17 PM8/17/12
to
"Sla#s" wrote in message news:k0ld86$5jt$1...@localhost.localdomain...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Legally things left buy the previous owner at completion become yours.
You will likely have a clause in the contract that allows you to charge him
your costs of remove, but good luck enforcing it
tim
Legally things left buy the previous owner at completion become yours.
You will likely have a clause in the contract that allows you to charge him
your costs of remove, but good luck enforcing it
tim
Roland Perry
Aug 17, 2012, 3:20:10 PM8/17/12
to
In message <iurs28t04i7rf1ol1...@4ax.com>, at 17:55:11 on
Fri, 17 Aug 2012, Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@npsl1.com> remarked:
>>What is the position when the previous owner will not clear his possessions
>>out of a house and one is unable to contact him?
>>He said he would clear them before exchange of contracts - he didn't
>>He said he would clear them before completion - he didn't.
>>Now nearly a month later neither the estate agents nor both solicitors are
>>able to contact him.
>>
>>Can the stuff be dumped - one of the items is an old car?
>
perhaps 20 years. The owner was living somewhere in Africa and was very
difficult to contact.
When we moved in there was an enormous amount of extraneous material in
the house (but curiously not the one item we might have wanted - a
corner cabinet in the dining room).
But we'd bought the place understanding that a lot of work was required,
so getting the attic and house cleared wasn't that big of an issue
alongside the 30 year old kitchen, 40 years old carpets (etc).
--
Roland Perry
Fri, 17 Aug 2012, Stephen Wolstenholme <st...@npsl1.com> remarked:
>>What is the position when the previous owner will not clear his possessions
>>out of a house and one is unable to contact him?
>>He said he would clear them before exchange of contracts - he didn't
>>He said he would clear them before completion - he didn't.
>>Now nearly a month later neither the estate agents nor both solicitors are
>>able to contact him.
>>
>>Can the stuff be dumped - one of the items is an old car?
>
>That happened to me a few decades ago. In my case the house had been
>rented and the last tenant left lots of items when he moved. I could
>not contact him so I sold the lot to a house clearance company. If the
>tenant ever returns I owe him £110
I bought a house in Cambridge which had been rented to 'students' for
>rented and the last tenant left lots of items when he moved. I could
>not contact him so I sold the lot to a house clearance company. If the
>tenant ever returns I owe him £110
perhaps 20 years. The owner was living somewhere in Africa and was very
difficult to contact.
When we moved in there was an enormous amount of extraneous material in
the house (but curiously not the one item we might have wanted - a
corner cabinet in the dining room).
But we'd bought the place understanding that a lot of work was required,
so getting the attic and house cleared wasn't that big of an issue
alongside the 30 year old kitchen, 40 years old carpets (etc).
--
Roland Perry
Chris R
Aug 17, 2012, 4:05:09 PM8/17/12
to
>
>
> "tim....." wrote in message news:a97jcv...@mid.individual.net...
> Legally things left buy the previous owner at completion become yours.
>
Interesting. Do you have a cite for that?
--
Chris R
tim.....
Aug 18, 2012, 7:55:35 PM8/18/12
to
"Chris R" wrote in message
news:MbydnZTA99OPPrPN...@brightview.co.uk...
----------------------------------------------------------------------
No, but it should be inherent with the wording of a standard contract.
E.g. "house and all chattels remaining...".
It would be a nightmare to sort out if it weren't
tim
news:MbydnZTA99OPPrPN...@brightview.co.uk...
No, but it should be inherent with the wording of a standard contract.
E.g. "house and all chattels remaining...".
It would be a nightmare to sort out if it weren't
tim
Ian Smith
Aug 18, 2012, 7:56:11 PM8/18/12
to
On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 20:15:17 +0100, tim..... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Legally things left buy the previous owner at completion become yours.
When we moved in there were various things left behind (a suitcase of
>
> Legally things left buy the previous owner at completion become yours.
uncared-for tools in the shed, and a load of really hideously grim
brown crockery in the fitted kitchen cabinets). We had no contact for
the previous owners. I just stacked the stuff in boxes in the corner
of one of the sheds - we'd moved from a place with a quarter of the
space, so had room.
I planned to give the crockery to the local school for its fete
crockery-smashing stall but didn't get round to it the next summer.
About 18 months after we moved in the previous owner suddenly wrote to
us, apparently in a flap, they'd been in temporary accommodation, just
moved into their permanent place and unpacked, only to discover they
didn't have their very best dinner-service. Had they left it behind?
I didn't tell them we'd ear-marked it for the crockery-smashing stall.
They arranged for a removal company to come round, pack it up, and
take it away.
Presumably, had we not waited, they'd have had to sue us for the cost
of it and demonstrate that it was unreasonable of us not to wait years
for them to miss it?
regards, Ian SMith
--
|\ /| no .sig
|o o|
|/ \|
Peter Parry
Aug 18, 2012, 7:56:11 PM8/18/12
to
>Can the stuff be dumped - one of the items is an old car?
You need to read the wonderfully named "Torts (Interference with
Goods) Act 1977"
www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1977/32
R. Mark Clayton
Aug 18, 2012, 7:55:13 PM8/18/12
to
"Sla#s" <ph...@knot-slatts.net> wrote in message
news:k0ld86$5jt$1...@localhost.localdomain...
> What is the position when the previous owner will not clear his
> possessions
> out of a house and one is unable to contact him?
> He said he would clear them before exchange of contracts - he didn't
> He said he would clear them before completion - he didn't.
> Now nearly a month later neither the estate agents nor both solicitors are
> able to contact him.
Anything left in the house / on the land will be the buyers.
> possessions
> out of a house and one is unable to contact him?
> He said he would clear them before exchange of contracts - he didn't
> He said he would clear them before completion - he didn't.
> Now nearly a month later neither the estate agents nor both solicitors are
> able to contact him.
Chris R
Aug 19, 2012, 6:05:02 AM8/19/12
to
>
>
> "tim....." wrote in message news:a998r2...@mid.individual.net...
accidentally leave my Rembrandt in the loft, I don't think title passes to
the buyer of the house. It may be the case if the items have been abandoned,
but I'm not aware of any general rule to the effect that chattels on the
land automatically pass with it. The Standard Conditions of Sale include
only contents on a list attached to the contract:
http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/new/documents/standardconditions-specimen.pdf
My removers once did omit to empty a drawer in the kitchen containing all my
tools. I just went round the next day and collected them.
--
Chris R
========legalstuff========
I post to be helpful but not claiming any expertise nor intending
anyone to rely on what I say. Nothing I post here will create a
professional relationship or duty of care. I do not provide legal
services to the public. My posts here refer only to English law except
where specified and are subject to the terms (including limitations of
liability) at http://www.clarityincorporatelaw.co.uk/legalstuff.html
======end legalstuff======
steve robinson
Aug 19, 2012, 6:35:02 AM8/19/12
to
didnt bother collecting them for a few month then it would be
reasonable to assume that the tools had been abandoned.
Chris R
Aug 19, 2012, 8:05:02 AM8/19/12
to
>
>
> "steve robinson" wrote in message
> news:xn0i20sr...@reader80.eternal-september.org...
(sic) the previous owner at completion become yours".
--
Chris R
Mark Goodge
Aug 19, 2012, 8:55:09 AM8/19/12
to
On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:05:02 +0100, Chris R put finger to keyboard and
typed:
I suspect you'd have a very good case for arguing that anything
deliberately left by the previous owner has been abandoned into the
posession of the new owner. But that's a long way short of the proposition
as originally stated, of course.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
typed:
deliberately left by the previous owner has been abandoned into the
posession of the new owner. But that's a long way short of the proposition
as originally stated, of course.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Roland Perry
Aug 19, 2012, 11:35:01 AM8/19/12
to
In message <MbydnZTA99OPPrPN...@brightview.co.uk>, at
21:05:09 on Fri, 17 Aug 2012, Chris R <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk>
remarked:
the land and the house and everything that happens to be inside it
(having made careful enquiries about which things you *want* them to
leave behind).
My old rental agreement specifically states that anything I left behind
would be regarded as "abandoned" and belongs to the landlord, but I
reckon that's a completely different bit of law.
--
Roland Perry
21:05:09 on Fri, 17 Aug 2012, Chris R <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk>
remarked:
>> Legally things left buy the previous owner at completion become yours.
>>
>....
>Interesting. Do you have a cite for that?
I've always understood that to be the case - something to do with buying
>>
>....
>Interesting. Do you have a cite for that?
the land and the house and everything that happens to be inside it
(having made careful enquiries about which things you *want* them to
leave behind).
My old rental agreement specifically states that anything I left behind
would be regarded as "abandoned" and belongs to the landlord, but I
reckon that's a completely different bit of law.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Aug 19, 2012, 12:00:04 PM8/19/12
to
In message <FqmdncwK96gZJK3N...@brightview.co.uk>, at
11:05:02 on Sun, 19 Aug 2012, Chris R <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk>
remarked:
>
back two months later for a couple of half-full tins of paint on a shelf
in the garage, I wouldn't expect them to have been kept.
--
Roland Perry
11:05:02 on Sun, 19 Aug 2012, Chris R <inv...@invalid.munge.co.uk>
remarked:
>
>My removers once did omit to empty a drawer in the kitchen containing all my
>tools. I just went round the next day and collected them.
Most buyers would probably accept that kind of activity. But if you came
>tools. I just went round the next day and collected them.
back two months later for a couple of half-full tins of paint on a shelf
in the garage, I wouldn't expect them to have been kept.
--
Roland Perry
steve robinson
Aug 19, 2012, 12:10:02 PM8/19/12
to
Roland Perry
Aug 19, 2012, 2:10:02 PM8/19/12
to
In message <xn0i20sr...@reader80.eternal-september.org>, at
11:35:02 on Sun, 19 Aug 2012, steve robinson
<st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> remarked:
have just signed the licence (which goes to great lengths to say it's
not a lease) for my daughter's student accommodation from September. It
says anything left there next June will be considered abandoned after 7
days.
And when I sold my house at the end of 2010, the buyer was very
concerned I didn't leave anything at all behind (perhaps fearing it
would be rubbish he'd have to dispose of). So a couple of items the
movers left in the garden shed by mistake, I shoved out on the pavement
and went back and collected later (I was only moving a mile or two).
--
Roland Perry
11:35:02 on Sun, 19 Aug 2012, steve robinson
<st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> remarked:
>>The
>> Standard Conditions of Sale include only contents on a list attached
>> to the contract:
>>
>http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/new/documents/standardconditions-specimen.pdf
>>
>> My removers once did omit to empty a drawer in the kitchen containing
>> all my tools. I just went round the next day and collected them.
>
>That was a genuine error, and it wouldn't really be arguable , if you
>didnt bother collecting them for a few month then it would be
>reasonable to assume that the tools had been abandoned.
A couple more data points (which may not advance our knowledge much...)
>> Standard Conditions of Sale include only contents on a list attached
>> to the contract:
>>
>http://www.lawsociety.org.uk/new/documents/standardconditions-specimen.pdf
>>
>> My removers once did omit to empty a drawer in the kitchen containing
>> all my tools. I just went round the next day and collected them.
>
>That was a genuine error, and it wouldn't really be arguable , if you
>didnt bother collecting them for a few month then it would be
>reasonable to assume that the tools had been abandoned.
have just signed the licence (which goes to great lengths to say it's
not a lease) for my daughter's student accommodation from September. It
says anything left there next June will be considered abandoned after 7
days.
And when I sold my house at the end of 2010, the buyer was very
concerned I didn't leave anything at all behind (perhaps fearing it
would be rubbish he'd have to dispose of). So a couple of items the
movers left in the garden shed by mistake, I shoved out on the pavement
and went back and collected later (I was only moving a mile or two).
--
Roland Perry
Alan Crowder
Aug 20, 2012, 3:25:02 AM8/20/12
to
car for you.
Alan
--
RobertL
Aug 20, 2012, 8:50:02 AM8/20/12
to
On Friday, August 17, 2012 9:05:09 PM UTC+1, Chris R wrote:
> > > > "tim....." wrote in message news:a97jcv...@mid.individual.net... > Legally things left buy the previous owner at completion become yours. > .... Interesting. Do you have a cite for that? -- Chris R
I seem to remember (and this may be simply a myth of course) that if you RENT a furnished house and then buy it while still a tenant then by default the contents are sold with the house. There was a case where this apparently happened and the contents were extremely valuable and the sellers expected to be able to collect them on/after completion day but ofund they had inadvertantly sold them.
> > > > "tim....." wrote in message news:a97jcv...@mid.individual.net... > Legally things left buy the previous owner at completion become yours. > .... Interesting. Do you have a cite for that? -- Chris R
Robert
Stuart A. Bronstein
Aug 21, 2012, 10:05:02 AM8/21/12
to
RobertL <rober...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I seem to remember (and this may be simply a myth of course)
> that if you RENT a furnished house and then buy it while still a
> tenant then by default the contents are sold with the house.
> There was a case where this apparently happened and the contents
> were extremely valuable and the sellers expected to be able to
> collect them on/after completion day but ofund they had
> inadvertantly sold them.
Normally the contract of sale would define exactly what is sold. If
> I seem to remember (and this may be simply a myth of course)
> that if you RENT a furnished house and then buy it while still a
> tenant then by default the contents are sold with the house.
> There was a case where this apparently happened and the contents
> were extremely valuable and the sellers expected to be able to
> collect them on/after completion day but ofund they had
> inadvertantly sold them.
neither the lease nor contract of sale gave the buyer ownership of
the furniture under the circumstances, I'd think the seller would
still own the furniture.
___
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
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