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Spare key for landlord?
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andym...@gmail.com
Apr 10, 2017, 7:13:58 AM4/10/17
to
Hey,
My friend is renting a house from private landlord.
Short version:
Has the landlord got the right to have spare key to rented house or tenant can give keys back after termination of contract?
Longer version
A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told him to f*off.
My friend same day immediately changes all locks and now there is a problem, because landlord says he HEED the spare key just in case something happened in his possesion (if police come etc).
Has my friend right to refuse giving a key to front doors and doing it in december (while agreement will be terminated)?
Thank you for all responses!
My friend is renting a house from private landlord.
Short version:
Has the landlord got the right to have spare key to rented house or tenant can give keys back after termination of contract?
Longer version
A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told him to f*off.
My friend same day immediately changes all locks and now there is a problem, because landlord says he HEED the spare key just in case something happened in his possesion (if police come etc).
Has my friend right to refuse giving a key to front doors and doing it in december (while agreement will be terminated)?
Thank you for all responses!
GB
Apr 10, 2017, 7:36:01 AM4/10/17
to
of what's in the tenancy agreement.
On the whole, I think landlords should have a key. That's in case of
emergency. Or to allow access for repairs with the tenant's agreement.
But not for propositioning the tenant's wife.
Mark Goodge
Apr 10, 2017, 7:58:28 AM4/10/17
to
tenancy agreement may stipulate that the tenant should supply the
landlord (or agent) with one if the tenent has reason to change the
locks. So the first thing to do is to check the agreement!
It's worth bearing in mind that the landlord does have a right to
enter the property without either notice or permission if there is a
genuine emergency, and if he needed to use force to do so due to not
having a key then he could charge the tenant for the cost of repairing
any damage which ensued. This is obviously a very unlikely scenario,
and the risk may be acceptable. But it does have to be taken into
account.
Under the circumstances, a better solution might be a security chain
on the door. This will be equally effective in preventing the
landlord, or anyone else, using a spare key to walk in uninvited when
the premises are occupied and the chain is in place, but won't prevent
him gaining emergency access when the premises are empty. And the
landlord would have no legal basis on which to object to that.
http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/2016/10/18/tenant-penalties-breaching-tenancy-rules-changing-locks/
is worth a read in this context, particularly the comments about
harassing behaviour by the landlord.
Mark
tim...
Apr 10, 2017, 8:52:31 AM4/10/17
to
"Mark Goodge" <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in message
news:92smectlnnctj51ed...@4ax.com...
my sis thinks that my keeping the chain on all the time whilst I am in the
house, is a risk because the emergency services will find it harder to get
in should they need to do so - if I have an accident for example.
Obviously in the PPs position that is probably the lesser risk, but not
always so
tim
Phi
Apr 10, 2017, 9:18:31 AM4/10/17
to
"Mark Goodge" <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in message
news:92smectlnnctj51ed...@4ax.com...
property whilst the occupiers were out and this compounded the problems for
the landlord in getting the tenants out. The tenants had claimed £45000 of
property had been taken during the landlords entry and this somehow upset
the tenancy agreement by way of a counter claim. The only way forward was
for a section 21 notice to be issued to the tenant, but first the tenant had
to be given his £1700 deposit back although he owed several thousand pounds
back rent.
Janet
Apr 10, 2017, 10:30:20 AM4/10/17
to
In article <214893a4-f316-4bd0...@googlegroups.com>,
andym...@gmail.com says...
instance, if there was a burst pipe or smell of gas while the tenat was
away). For that and other reasons it's normal practice for the LL (or
his agent) to retain a set of keys.
Other than emergencies, LL should give at least 24 hours written notice
of when they require entry for repairs, or an inspection etc.
> Longer version
> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to their house,
opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his spare key and
pretended he was trying to fix something.
Did he say what he was supposed to be fixing?
> He tried to kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash >
etc. She told him to f*off.
> My friend same day immediately changes all locks and now there is a problem,
because landlord says he HEED the spare key just in case something
happened in his possesion (if police come etc).
That's correct. Tenants who change locks must supply new keys to the
LL.
> Has my friend right to refuse giving a key to front doors
No.
However, the LL should have asked permission to enter (because the
family was at home) and what you say he did to friends wife was
harassment. Advice below
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal
_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord
Janet
andym...@gmail.com says...
>
> Hey,
> My friend is renting a house from private landlord.
>
> Short version:
> Has the landlord got the right to have spare key to rented house
or tenant can give keys back after termination of contract?
LL's have right of entry without notice, for emergency repairs etc (for
> Hey,
> My friend is renting a house from private landlord.
>
> Short version:
> Has the landlord got the right to have spare key to rented house
or tenant can give keys back after termination of contract?
instance, if there was a burst pipe or smell of gas while the tenat was
away). For that and other reasons it's normal practice for the LL (or
his agent) to retain a set of keys.
Other than emergencies, LL should give at least 24 hours written notice
of when they require entry for repairs, or an inspection etc.
> Longer version
> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to their house,
opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his spare key and
pretended he was trying to fix something.
> He tried to kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash >
etc. She told him to f*off.
> My friend same day immediately changes all locks and now there is a problem,
because landlord says he HEED the spare key just in case something
happened in his possesion (if police come etc).
LL.
> Has my friend right to refuse giving a key to front doors
However, the LL should have asked permission to enter (because the
family was at home) and what you say he did to friends wife was
harassment. Advice below
http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal
_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord
Janet
Neil Williams
Apr 10, 2017, 10:32:58 AM4/10/17
to
On 2017-04-10 07:01:15 +0000, andym...@gmail.com said:
> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
> him to f*off.
Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
> him to f*off.
assault.
Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Mark Goodge
Apr 10, 2017, 10:38:49 AM4/10/17
to
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 13:49:47 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>
>"Mark Goodge" <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:92smectlnnctj51ed...@4ax.com...
entry. A typical security chain is no defence against forced entry. It
merely prevents casual, unforced but uninvited entry, such as by
salesmen, distraction burglars and annoying landlords.
(You can get security chains that are more resistant to force, but
there's no compelling reason to fit one in these circumstances).
Mark
wrote:
>
>
>"Mark Goodge" <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:92smectlnnctj51ed...@4ax.com...
>> Under the circumstances, a better solution might be a security chain
>> on the door. This will be equally effective in preventing the
>> landlord, or anyone else, using a spare key to walk in uninvited when
>> the premises are occupied and the chain is in place, but won't prevent
>> him gaining emergency access when the premises are empty. And the
>> landlord would have no legal basis on which to object to that.
>
>OTOH
>
>my sis thinks that my keeping the chain on all the time whilst I am in the
>house, is a risk because the emergency services will find it harder to get
>in should they need to do so - if I have an accident for example.
If the emergency services need to get in they can, and will, force
>> on the door. This will be equally effective in preventing the
>> landlord, or anyone else, using a spare key to walk in uninvited when
>> the premises are occupied and the chain is in place, but won't prevent
>> him gaining emergency access when the premises are empty. And the
>> landlord would have no legal basis on which to object to that.
>
>OTOH
>
>my sis thinks that my keeping the chain on all the time whilst I am in the
>house, is a risk because the emergency services will find it harder to get
>in should they need to do so - if I have an accident for example.
entry. A typical security chain is no defence against forced entry. It
merely prevents casual, unforced but uninvited entry, such as by
salesmen, distraction burglars and annoying landlords.
(You can get security chains that are more resistant to force, but
there's no compelling reason to fit one in these circumstances).
Mark
Mark Goodge
Apr 10, 2017, 10:47:43 AM4/10/17
to
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 14:17:42 -0000, "Phi" <phi...@inbox.com> wrote:
>I saw a programme on the TV the other day
While possibly of anecdotal interest, such a response is practically
>I saw a programme on the TV the other day
never of any value when someone has asked a serious legal question
that deserves both an informed response and/or a pointer to
authoritative or expert information.
> where a landlord entered a
>property whilst the occupiers were out and this compounded the problems for
>the landlord in getting the tenants out. The tenants had claimed £45000 of
>property had been taken during the landlords entry and this somehow upset
>the tenancy agreement by way of a counter claim. The only way forward was
>for a section 21 notice to be issued to the tenant, but first the tenant had
>to be given his £1700 deposit back although he owed several thousand pounds
>back rent.
tenant is intending to leave rather than is being evicted. It's also,
on the face of it, implausible, and is either based on a
misunderstanding by the programme makers or a very condensed version
of what actually happened.
Mark
Janet
Apr 10, 2017, 10:50:32 AM4/10/17
to
In article <ocfusl$9sc$1...@dont-email.me>, tims_n...@yahoo.com says...
> my sis thinks that my keeping the chain on all the time whilst I am in the
> house, is a risk because the emergency services will find it harder to get
> in should they need to do so - if I have an accident for example.
It won't prevent a forced entry by emergency services. A door chain is
only as strong as the screws that fix it to the door and its frame.
Janet.
> my sis thinks that my keeping the chain on all the time whilst I am in the
> house, is a risk because the emergency services will find it harder to get
> in should they need to do so - if I have an accident for example.
only as strong as the screws that fix it to the door and its frame.
Janet.
tim...
Apr 10, 2017, 1:06:00 PM4/10/17
to
"Phi" <phi...@inbox.com> wrote in message
news:ocg0h4$kga$1...@dont-email.me...
and it is no surprise to anyone that a LL who ignored one rule, has ignored
another
tim
PLC
Apr 10, 2017, 3:08:04 PM4/10/17
to
On 10/04/2017 15:32, Neil Williams wrote:
> On 2017-04-10 07:01:15 +0000, andym...@gmail.com said:
>
>> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
>> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
>> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
>> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
>> him to f*off.
>
> Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
> assault.
>
> Neil
>
A pragmatic approach is sometimes better. At the very least a formal
> On 2017-04-10 07:01:15 +0000, andym...@gmail.com said:
>
>> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
>> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
>> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
>> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
>> him to f*off.
>
> Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
> assault.
>
> Neil
>
written complaint to the landlord sent by signed for delivery stating
that any similar behaviour will be treated as harassment and reported to
the police. Send a copy to the Police as well. Legally the landlord may
be entitled to a key but if he wants to take the tenant to court he will
have to explain his reasons in view of his behaviour. Chances are he
will not do so.
--
Peter
Reply address is valid
steve robinson
Apr 10, 2017, 3:54:37 PM4/10/17
to
get the landlords permission otherwise they can argue that you have
damaged the door and frame and charge you to fix it, not to much of
an issue on a timber door but on a upvc it would require new door
and frame
steve robinson
Apr 10, 2017, 4:02:09 PM4/10/17
to
On Mon, 10 Apr 2017 15:32:48 +0100, Neil Williams
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2017-04-10 07:01:15 +0000, andym...@gmail.com said:
>
>> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
>> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
>> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
>> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
>> him to f*off.
>
>Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
>assault.
>
>Neil
The issue is proving it, the Landlord will deny any such event took
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2017-04-10 07:01:15 +0000, andym...@gmail.com said:
>
>> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
>> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
>> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
>> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
>> him to f*off.
>
>Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
>assault.
>
>Neil
place , may be even suggest the tenants wife propositioned him (im
not for one moment suggesting she did) . Police will file it in te NFA
file .
Trouble then each accuse the other , the tenant looks for a new home
and the potential new landlord asks for a reference off the previous
landlord .
steve robinson
Apr 10, 2017, 4:08:31 PM4/10/17
to
option if they are looking to move out shortly is not antagonize the
situation. The tenants have to prove the allegations which is not
going to be easy. If he appears again record the event on a mobile
phone.
Unfortunately some landlords think female tenants are theirs for the
taking
Mr Pounder Esquire
Apr 10, 2017, 5:38:31 PM4/10/17
to
According to the Housing Act 1988, as a landlord, you're obligated to
provide your tenants with at least 24 hours' notice before entering the
property.
As a contractor I have been given a bunch of keys and asked to just go and
do it. Sometimes the tenants have not been notified, sometimes they have.
I always banged on the doors and shouted before entering.
In one instance I was doing my job and a young girl came out of the bedroom
half naked. I said "please don't scream". She did not scream.
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 2:21:51 AM4/11/17
to
In message <MPG.3355a73...@news.individual.net>, at 15:29:54 on
Mon, 10 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
that the tenant would normally be given permission to change the locks
(for example if a key had been lost or stolen), BUT should give a new
key to the landlord/agent.
> Other than emergencies, LL should give at least 24 hours written notice
>of when they require entry for repairs, or an inspection etc.
Yes, although landlords (especially IME ones with a small portfolio -
rather than just one house, or a large portfolio) will often enter
during daytime whenever they feel like it. The worst part is when they
don't knock/ring the door because they wrongly assume the house is
empty.
This has actually happened twice to my young daughter in recent years -
once while alone in our rented family house and the other time in a
shared student rental in the holidays when all the other students were
back home.
>> He tried to kiss my friend's wife (she is 20),
That's an assault, and in theory could be reported to the police. It's
worth doing, even with uncorroborated evidence, because he may already
have form for that, and the police might wat to make a note even they
say they have no inclination to investigate that particular occasion.
>>proposed her a cash >
>etc. She told him to f*off.
>
>> My friend same day immediately changes all locks and now there is a problem,
> because landlord says he HEED the spare key just in case something
>happened in his possesion (if police come etc).
>
> That's correct. Tenants who change locks must supply new keys to the
>LL.
>
>> Has my friend right to refuse giving a key to front doors
>
> No.
>
> However, the LL should have asked permission to enter (because the
>family was at home) and what you say he did to friends wife was
>harassment.
It's only harassment if he does it twice or more. Much better to pursue
the (sexual) assault angle.
>Advice below
>
>http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal
>_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord
Which unfortunately is about a completely different scenario.
--
Roland Perry
Mon, 10 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>In article <214893a4-f316-4bd0...@googlegroups.com>,
>andym...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> Hey,
>> My friend is renting a house from private landlord.
>>
>> Short version:
>> Has the landlord got the right to have spare key to rented house
> or tenant can give keys back after termination of contract?
>
> LL's have right of entry without notice, for emergency repairs etc (for
>instance, if there was a burst pipe or smell of gas while the tenat was
>away). For that and other reasons it's normal practice for the LL (or
>his agent) to retain a set of keys.
And is indeed usually in the tenancy agreement. Which also often specify
>andym...@gmail.com says...
>>
>> Hey,
>> My friend is renting a house from private landlord.
>>
>> Short version:
>> Has the landlord got the right to have spare key to rented house
> or tenant can give keys back after termination of contract?
>
> LL's have right of entry without notice, for emergency repairs etc (for
>instance, if there was a burst pipe or smell of gas while the tenat was
>away). For that and other reasons it's normal practice for the LL (or
>his agent) to retain a set of keys.
that the tenant would normally be given permission to change the locks
(for example if a key had been lost or stolen), BUT should give a new
key to the landlord/agent.
> Other than emergencies, LL should give at least 24 hours written notice
>of when they require entry for repairs, or an inspection etc.
rather than just one house, or a large portfolio) will often enter
during daytime whenever they feel like it. The worst part is when they
don't knock/ring the door because they wrongly assume the house is
empty.
This has actually happened twice to my young daughter in recent years -
once while alone in our rented family house and the other time in a
shared student rental in the holidays when all the other students were
back home.
>> He tried to kiss my friend's wife (she is 20),
worth doing, even with uncorroborated evidence, because he may already
have form for that, and the police might wat to make a note even they
say they have no inclination to investigate that particular occasion.
>>proposed her a cash >
>etc. She told him to f*off.
>
>> My friend same day immediately changes all locks and now there is a problem,
> because landlord says he HEED the spare key just in case something
>happened in his possesion (if police come etc).
>
> That's correct. Tenants who change locks must supply new keys to the
>LL.
>
>> Has my friend right to refuse giving a key to front doors
>
> No.
>
> However, the LL should have asked permission to enter (because the
>family was at home) and what you say he did to friends wife was
>harassment.
the (sexual) assault angle.
>Advice below
>
>http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal
>_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 2:41:45 AM4/11/17
to
In message <5ronec5s1q8rco1jq...@4ax.com>, at 21:01:46 on
Mon, 10 Apr 2017, steve robinson <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk>
remarked:
may start to take action.
>Trouble then each accuse the other , the tenant looks for a new home
>and the potential new landlord asks for a reference off the previous
>landlord .
If the report was NFA then the landlord is unlikely to know about it.
--
Roland Perry
Mon, 10 Apr 2017, steve robinson <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk>
remarked:
>>Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
>>assault.
>
>>assault.
>
>The issue is proving it, the Landlord will deny any such event took
>place , may be even suggest the tenants wife propositioned him (im
>not for one moment suggesting she did) . Police will file it in te NFA
>file .
However, once the NFA file on a repeat offender gets a bit thicker, they
>place , may be even suggest the tenants wife propositioned him (im
>not for one moment suggesting she did) . Police will file it in te NFA
>file .
may start to take action.
>Trouble then each accuse the other , the tenant looks for a new home
>and the potential new landlord asks for a reference off the previous
>landlord .
--
Roland Perry
Iain
Apr 11, 2017, 3:48:17 AM4/11/17
to
Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> Wrote in message:
My understanding is that a landlord does not have an automatic
right of entry, even if this so-called 24-hour notice is given.
It has to be by mutual agreement, unless in an emergency.
The tenant is entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of the premises.
Also I believe that the landlord need not necessarily be given a
set of keys. This may be detailed in the tenancy agreement.
However, since the landlord seems to have already gained
unlawful access to the premises, it could be argued that, for
your own 'protection', he has forfeited that right.
Here is a relevant article on 'The Landlord Law Blog' -
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/137980-la
ndlords-have-a-right-to-a-copy-the-house-key/
Once, when my landlord went into my flat without my permission, or
without my initial knowledge, I threatened to change the locks
and not give him a key!
Also, several months ago, my landlord's son (fairly new to the
business) gave notice to do a 'regular check' on the premises. I
said that there had never been a 'regular check' before, and so I
did not allow him in.
IANAL
(but can be an awkward s*d!)
--
Iain
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
> On 2017-04-10 07:01:15 +0000, andym...@gmail.com said:
>
>> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
>> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
>> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
>> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
>> him to f*off.
>
> Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
> assault.
>
> Neil
Yes, 'Wow'.
>
>> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
>> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
>> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
>> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
>> him to f*off.
>
> Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
> assault.
>
> Neil
My understanding is that a landlord does not have an automatic
right of entry, even if this so-called 24-hour notice is given.
It has to be by mutual agreement, unless in an emergency.
The tenant is entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of the premises.
Also I believe that the landlord need not necessarily be given a
set of keys. This may be detailed in the tenancy agreement.
However, since the landlord seems to have already gained
unlawful access to the premises, it could be argued that, for
your own 'protection', he has forfeited that right.
Here is a relevant article on 'The Landlord Law Blog' -
http://www.housepricecrash.co.uk/forum/index.php?/topic/137980-la
ndlords-have-a-right-to-a-copy-the-house-key/
Once, when my landlord went into my flat without my permission, or
without my initial knowledge, I threatened to change the locks
and not give him a key!
Also, several months ago, my landlord's son (fairly new to the
business) gave notice to do a 'regular check' on the premises. I
said that there had never been a 'regular check' before, and so I
did not allow him in.
IANAL
(but can be an awkward s*d!)
--
Iain
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
Mark Goodge
Apr 11, 2017, 8:12:51 AM4/11/17
to
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 07:12:54 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
>In message <MPG.3355a73...@news.individual.net>, at 15:29:54 on
>Mon, 10 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
landlord can't enter unannounced, even if their belief that the house
is unoccupied is a genuinely innocent mistake.
>>> He tried to kiss my friend's wife (she is 20),
>
>That's an assault, and in theory could be reported to the police. It's
>worth doing, even with uncorroborated evidence, because he may already
>have form for that, and the police might wat to make a note even they
>say they have no inclination to investigate that particular occasion.
Good point. It's always worth bearing in mind that every report of an
alleged offence to the police is data, even if it doesn't lead to an
immediate investigation.
Mark
wrote:
>In message <MPG.3355a73...@news.individual.net>, at 15:29:54 on
>Mon, 10 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>> Other than emergencies, LL should give at least 24 hours written notice
>>of when they require entry for repairs, or an inspection etc.
>
>Yes, although landlords (especially IME ones with a small portfolio -
>rather than just one house, or a large portfolio) will often enter
>during daytime whenever they feel like it. The worst part is when they
>don't knock/ring the door because they wrongly assume the house is
>empty.
>
>This has actually happened twice to my young daughter in recent years -
>once while alone in our rented family house and the other time in a
>shared student rental in the holidays when all the other students were
>back home.
That's another good reason for a security chain. It means that the
>>of when they require entry for repairs, or an inspection etc.
>
>Yes, although landlords (especially IME ones with a small portfolio -
>rather than just one house, or a large portfolio) will often enter
>during daytime whenever they feel like it. The worst part is when they
>don't knock/ring the door because they wrongly assume the house is
>empty.
>
>This has actually happened twice to my young daughter in recent years -
>once while alone in our rented family house and the other time in a
>shared student rental in the holidays when all the other students were
>back home.
landlord can't enter unannounced, even if their belief that the house
is unoccupied is a genuinely innocent mistake.
>>> He tried to kiss my friend's wife (she is 20),
>
>That's an assault, and in theory could be reported to the police. It's
>worth doing, even with uncorroborated evidence, because he may already
>have form for that, and the police might wat to make a note even they
>say they have no inclination to investigate that particular occasion.
alleged offence to the police is data, even if it doesn't lead to an
immediate investigation.
Mark
Mark Goodge
Apr 11, 2017, 8:28:49 AM4/11/17
to
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 04:31:31 +0100 (GMT+01:00), Iain <sp...@smaps.net>
wrote:
>Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> Wrote in message:
>> On 2017-04-10 07:01:15 +0000, andym...@gmail.com said:
>>
>>> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
>>> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
>>> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
>>> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
>>> him to f*off.
>>
>> Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
>> assault.
>>
>> Neil
>
>Yes, 'Wow'.
>
>My understanding is that a landlord does not have an automatic
> right of entry, even if this so-called 24-hour notice is given.
> It has to be by mutual agreement, unless in an emergency.
The landlord has a right of access in order to carry out necessary
repairs and to inspect the property. Other than in emergencies, this
must always be with at least 24 hours notice and, where possible, by
arrangement with the tenant.
However, if the tenant persists in unreasonably denying the landlord
reasonable access, the landlord is entitled to insist on it. What
would be considered reasonable in such circumstances is a question of
fact to be determined by a court if necessary.
>The tenant is entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of the premises.
>
>Also I believe that the landlord need not necessarily be given a
> set of keys. This may be detailed in the tenancy agreement.
>
>However, since the landlord seems to have already gained
> unlawful access to the premises, it could be argued that, for
> your own 'protection', he has forfeited that right.
The law doesn't generally work on the principle that "two wrongs make
a right". If the landlord is entitled, via the tenancy agreement, to a
set of keys, then his own actions will not affect that entitlement.
>Once, when my landlord went into my flat without my permission, or
> without my initial knowledge, I threatened to change the locks
> and not give him a key!
>
>Also, several months ago, my landlord's son (fairly new to the
> business) gave notice to do a 'regular check' on the premises. I
> said that there had never been a 'regular check' before, and so I
> did not allow him in.
If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
extremely remiss in his duties. How frequent such a check should be is
a matter of opinion, but every landlord (or their agent) should give
their properties a once over every now and then, if only to spot
potential maintenance issues that have not been reported by the
tenant. The RLA, for example, recommends that landlords have a
schedule for checking smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, even where the
tenancy agreement also places this responsibility on the tenant. Some
insurers will also require landlords to inspect the premises regularly
as a condition of providing landlord insurance for them.
Mark
wrote:
>Neil Williams <wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> Wrote in message:
>> On 2017-04-10 07:01:15 +0000, andym...@gmail.com said:
>>
>>> A few days ago when my friend was at work, landlord (75yo) came to
>>> their house, opened the doors (wife with kids was inside) with his
>>> spare key and pretended he was trying to fix something. He tried to
>>> kiss my friend's wife (she is 20), proposed her a cash etc. She told
>>> him to f*off.
>>
>> Wow. Have the Police been called? That is near certainly some form of
>> assault.
>>
>> Neil
>
>Yes, 'Wow'.
>
>My understanding is that a landlord does not have an automatic
> right of entry, even if this so-called 24-hour notice is given.
> It has to be by mutual agreement, unless in an emergency.
repairs and to inspect the property. Other than in emergencies, this
must always be with at least 24 hours notice and, where possible, by
arrangement with the tenant.
However, if the tenant persists in unreasonably denying the landlord
reasonable access, the landlord is entitled to insist on it. What
would be considered reasonable in such circumstances is a question of
fact to be determined by a court if necessary.
>The tenant is entitled to 'quiet enjoyment' of the premises.
>
>Also I believe that the landlord need not necessarily be given a
> set of keys. This may be detailed in the tenancy agreement.
>
>However, since the landlord seems to have already gained
> unlawful access to the premises, it could be argued that, for
> your own 'protection', he has forfeited that right.
a right". If the landlord is entitled, via the tenancy agreement, to a
set of keys, then his own actions will not affect that entitlement.
>Once, when my landlord went into my flat without my permission, or
> without my initial knowledge, I threatened to change the locks
> and not give him a key!
>
>Also, several months ago, my landlord's son (fairly new to the
> business) gave notice to do a 'regular check' on the premises. I
> said that there had never been a 'regular check' before, and so I
> did not allow him in.
extremely remiss in his duties. How frequent such a check should be is
a matter of opinion, but every landlord (or their agent) should give
their properties a once over every now and then, if only to spot
potential maintenance issues that have not been reported by the
tenant. The RLA, for example, recommends that landlords have a
schedule for checking smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, even where the
tenancy agreement also places this responsibility on the tenant. Some
insurers will also require landlords to inspect the premises regularly
as a condition of providing landlord insurance for them.
Mark
Janet
Apr 11, 2017, 8:29:01 AM4/11/17
to
In article <SBv3CLXm...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk says...
Janet wrote
> > However, the LL should have asked permission to enter (because the
> >family was at home) and what you say he did to friends wife was
> >harassment.
>
> It's only harassment if he does it twice or more.
Cite?
Much better to pursue
> the (sexual) assault angle.
>
> >Advice below
> >
> >http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal
> >_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord
>
> Which unfortunately is about a completely different scenario.
Rubbish. Perhaps you failed to read
"How landlords harass tenants"
which says "Your landlord could also be guilty of harassment if they
enter your home without your permission or send builders in without
notice or at unsocial hours. This should not happen unless there is an
emergency, for example if urgent repairs are needed."
followed by
"how to deal with LL harassment"
all of it highly relevant to the OP.
Janet
>
Janet wrote
> > However, the LL should have asked permission to enter (because the
> >family was at home) and what you say he did to friends wife was
> >harassment.
>
> It's only harassment if he does it twice or more.
Much better to pursue
> the (sexual) assault angle.
>
> >Advice below
> >
> >http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal
> >_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord
>
> Which unfortunately is about a completely different scenario.
"How landlords harass tenants"
which says "Your landlord could also be guilty of harassment if they
enter your home without your permission or send builders in without
notice or at unsocial hours. This should not happen unless there is an
emergency, for example if urgent repairs are needed."
followed by
"how to deal with LL harassment"
all of it highly relevant to the OP.
Janet
>
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 8:49:14 AM4/11/17
to
In message <6rhpecdgn3ui76ash...@4ax.com>, at 13:12:40 on
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
to turn up at some point. At best they'll unlock the door and then get a
bruised shoulder. At worst the chain won't last very long.
--
Roland Perry
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
>>Yes, although landlords (especially IME ones with a small portfolio -
>>rather than just one house, or a large portfolio) will often enter
>>during daytime whenever they feel like it. The worst part is when they
>>don't knock/ring the door because they wrongly assume the house is
>>empty.
>>
>>This has actually happened twice to my young daughter in recent years -
>>once while alone in our rented family house and the other time in a
>>shared student rental in the holidays when all the other students were
>>back home.
>
>That's another good reason for a security chain. It means that the
>landlord can't enter unannounced, even if their belief that the house
>is unoccupied is a genuinely innocent mistake.
It's not always entirely practical if you are expecting other occupants
>>rather than just one house, or a large portfolio) will often enter
>>during daytime whenever they feel like it. The worst part is when they
>>don't knock/ring the door because they wrongly assume the house is
>>empty.
>>
>>This has actually happened twice to my young daughter in recent years -
>>once while alone in our rented family house and the other time in a
>>shared student rental in the holidays when all the other students were
>>back home.
>
>That's another good reason for a security chain. It means that the
>landlord can't enter unannounced, even if their belief that the house
>is unoccupied is a genuinely innocent mistake.
to turn up at some point. At best they'll unlock the door and then get a
bruised shoulder. At worst the chain won't last very long.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 8:55:42 AM4/11/17
to
In message <e4ipecps4761ts4it...@4ax.com>, at 13:28:34 on
suitably qualified workman.
--
Roland Perry
>>Also, several months ago, my landlord's son (fairly new to the
>> business) gave notice to do a 'regular check' on the premises. I
>> said that there had never been a 'regular check' before, and so I
>> did not allow him in.
>
>If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
>extremely remiss in his duties. How frequent such a check should be is
>a matter of opinion, but every landlord (or their agent) should give
>their properties a once over every now and then, if only to spot
>potential maintenance issues that have not been reported by the
>tenant. The RLA, for example, recommends that landlords have a
>schedule for checking smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, even where the
>tenancy agreement also places this responsibility on the tenant. Some
>insurers will also require landlords to inspect the premises regularly
>as a condition of providing landlord insurance for them.
Gas appliances have to be checked annually, but the landlord can send a
>> business) gave notice to do a 'regular check' on the premises. I
>> said that there had never been a 'regular check' before, and so I
>> did not allow him in.
>
>If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
>extremely remiss in his duties. How frequent such a check should be is
>a matter of opinion, but every landlord (or their agent) should give
>their properties a once over every now and then, if only to spot
>potential maintenance issues that have not been reported by the
>tenant. The RLA, for example, recommends that landlords have a
>schedule for checking smoke and carbon monoxide alarms, even where the
>tenancy agreement also places this responsibility on the tenant. Some
>insurers will also require landlords to inspect the premises regularly
>as a condition of providing landlord insurance for them.
suitably qualified workman.
--
Roland Perry
Jon Ribbens
Apr 11, 2017, 9:22:26 AM4/11/17
to
On 2017-04-11, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
> If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 9:28:10 AM4/11/17
to
In message <MPG.3356dc5...@news.individual.net>, at 13:28:37 on
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
Prohibition of harassment.
s1(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-
(a) which amounts to harassment of another,
...
s7(3) A "course of conduct" must involve-
(a) in the case of conduct in relation to a single person (see
section 1(1)), conduct on at least two occasions in
relation to that person,
> Much better to pursue
>> the (sexual) assault angle.
>>
>> >Advice below
>> >
>> >http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal
>> >_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord
>>
>> Which unfortunately is about a completely different scenario.
>
> Rubbish.
Bless you.
>Perhaps you failed to read
Definitely I didn't (fail to).
> "How landlords harass tenants"
>
> which says "Your landlord could also be guilty of harassment if they
>enter your home without your permission or send builders in without
>notice or at unsocial hours. This should not happen unless there is an
>emergency, for example if urgent repairs are needed."
>
> followed by
>
> "how to deal with LL harassment"
>
> all of it highly relevant to the OP.
It's about the law specifically on harassing tenants to leave, not
general harassment.
--
Roland Perry
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>> It's only harassment if he does it twice or more.
>
>
>Cite?
Harassment Act
>
>
>Cite?
Prohibition of harassment.
s1(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-
(a) which amounts to harassment of another,
...
s7(3) A "course of conduct" must involve-
(a) in the case of conduct in relation to a single person (see
section 1(1)), conduct on at least two occasions in
relation to that person,
> Much better to pursue
>> the (sexual) assault angle.
>>
>> >Advice below
>> >
>> >http://england.shelter.org.uk/get_advice/eviction/harassment_and_illegal
>> >_eviction_by_landlord/harassment_by_a_landlord
>>
>> Which unfortunately is about a completely different scenario.
>
> Rubbish.
>Perhaps you failed to read
> "How landlords harass tenants"
>
> which says "Your landlord could also be guilty of harassment if they
>enter your home without your permission or send builders in without
>notice or at unsocial hours. This should not happen unless there is an
>emergency, for example if urgent repairs are needed."
>
> followed by
>
> "how to deal with LL harassment"
>
> all of it highly relevant to the OP.
general harassment.
--
Roland Perry
Brian Reay
Apr 11, 2017, 9:28:32 AM4/11/17
to
claim there was a 'proposition' the difference in ages rather mitigates
against this being believed. Plus such behaviour should be reported-
there may have been earlier instances with other tenants and such
behaviour is totally unacceptable.
As for the 'reference', present the landlord with the crime reference
number should they refuse a reference and ensure any letting agency is
aware of the matter.
Certainly in future, care should be taken to ensure the lady isn't alone
when the landlord 'visits'.
tim...
Apr 11, 2017, 9:44:49 AM4/11/17
to
"Jon Ribbens" <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> wrote in message
news:slrnoepm46.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu...
They interfere with the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment without conferring
any benefit to the tenant.
tim
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 9:48:34 AM4/11/17
to
In message <slrnoepm46.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>, at 13:19:09
on Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Jon Ribbens <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> remarked:
>> If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
>
>... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
I agree entirely. It would be a golden opportunity for the tenant to
point out all the things the landlord had promised to fix, and hadn't!
--
Roland Perry
on Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Jon Ribbens <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> remarked:
>> If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
>
>... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
point out all the things the landlord had promised to fix, and hadn't!
--
Roland Perry
Flop
Apr 11, 2017, 10:05:49 AM4/11/17
to
On 11/04/2017 14:08, Brian Reay wrote:
>
> While, of course, the landlord may well not only deny the event but
> claim there was a 'proposition' the difference in ages rather mitigates
> against this being believed. Plus such behaviour should be reported-
> there may have been earlier instances with other tenants and such
> behaviour is totally unacceptable.
>
> As for the 'reference', present the landlord with the crime reference
> number should they refuse a reference and ensure any letting agency is
> aware of the matter.
>
> Certainly in future, care should be taken to ensure the lady isn't alone
> when the landlord 'visits'.
>
>
Harassment is normally defined as a repeated act. If the LL visits again
>
> While, of course, the landlord may well not only deny the event but
> claim there was a 'proposition' the difference in ages rather mitigates
> against this being believed. Plus such behaviour should be reported-
> there may have been earlier instances with other tenants and such
> behaviour is totally unacceptable.
>
> As for the 'reference', present the landlord with the crime reference
> number should they refuse a reference and ensure any letting agency is
> aware of the matter.
>
> Certainly in future, care should be taken to ensure the lady isn't alone
> when the landlord 'visits'.
>
>
and abuses the wife, it will be the first occasion if you have not
already advised the police.
The police are overworked and this will not be a high priority. However
they are sensitive to 'you have already been warned about...' claims
should another tenant be assaulted.
--
Flop
General Norman Schwarzkopf was asked if he thought there was room for
forgiveness toward terrorists.
The General said, "I believe that forgiving them is God's function...
OUR job is to arrange the meeting."
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 11:36:52 AM4/11/17
to
In message <Xv2dnb1qj6ktf3HF...@brightview.co.uk>, at
15:05:33 on Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Flop <Fl...@flop.knot.me.uk> remarked:
false.
They will, however, reject any reports of connected incidents happening
more than six months previously, as that's the in-effect statute of
limitations for non-violent harassment.
--
Roland Perry
15:05:33 on Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Flop <Fl...@flop.knot.me.uk> remarked:
>On 11/04/2017 14:08, Brian Reay wrote:
>>
>> While, of course, the landlord may well not only deny the event but
>> claim there was a 'proposition' the difference in ages rather mitigates
>> against this being believed. Plus such behaviour should be reported-
>> there may have been earlier instances with other tenants and such
>> behaviour is totally unacceptable.
>>
>> As for the 'reference', present the landlord with the crime reference
>> number should they refuse a reference and ensure any letting agency is
>> aware of the matter.
>>
>> Certainly in future, care should be taken to ensure the lady isn't alone
>> when the landlord 'visits'.
>
>Harassment is normally defined as a repeated act. If the LL visits
>again and abuses the wife, it will be the first occasion if you have
>not already advised the police.
The police might like to think they could persuade you of that, but it's
>>
>> While, of course, the landlord may well not only deny the event but
>> claim there was a 'proposition' the difference in ages rather mitigates
>> against this being believed. Plus such behaviour should be reported-
>> there may have been earlier instances with other tenants and such
>> behaviour is totally unacceptable.
>>
>> As for the 'reference', present the landlord with the crime reference
>> number should they refuse a reference and ensure any letting agency is
>> aware of the matter.
>>
>> Certainly in future, care should be taken to ensure the lady isn't alone
>> when the landlord 'visits'.
>
>Harassment is normally defined as a repeated act. If the LL visits
>again and abuses the wife, it will be the first occasion if you have
>not already advised the police.
false.
They will, however, reject any reports of connected incidents happening
more than six months previously, as that's the in-effect statute of
limitations for non-violent harassment.
--
Roland Perry
Janet
Apr 11, 2017, 11:38:46 AM4/11/17
to
In article <slrnoepm46.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>,
jon+u...@unequivocal.eu says...
In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
Janet.
jon+u...@unequivocal.eu says...
part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
Janet.
Janet
Apr 11, 2017, 11:48:06 AM4/11/17
to
In article <ocim2v$a61$1...@dont-email.me>, tims_n...@yahoo.com says...
Routine checkups at reasonable intervals, conducted with proper
notice, do not qualify as interfering with tenants right to quiet
enjoyment.
The benefit to tenants is making the LL or agent aware of any care and
repair needs
Janet
notice, do not qualify as interfering with tenants right to quiet
enjoyment.
The benefit to tenants is making the LL or agent aware of any care and
repair needs
Janet
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 12:04:34 PM4/11/17
to
In message <MPG.33570b0...@news.individual.net>, at 16:47:56 on
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>do not qualify as interfering with tenants right to quiet
>enjoyment.
>
> The benefit to tenants is making the LL or agent aware of any care and
>repair needs
Which is why landlords and agents generally avoid doing such inspections
like the plague.
--
Roland Perry
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>> >> If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
>> >
>> > ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>> > rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>>
>> and there's no reason why the should.
>>
>> They interfere with the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment without conferring
>> any benefit to the tenant.
>
> Routine checkups at reasonable intervals, conducted with proper
>notice,
That's the crucial bit.
>> >
>> > ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>> > rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>>
>> and there's no reason why the should.
>>
>> They interfere with the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment without conferring
>> any benefit to the tenant.
>
> Routine checkups at reasonable intervals, conducted with proper
>notice,
>do not qualify as interfering with tenants right to quiet
>enjoyment.
>
> The benefit to tenants is making the LL or agent aware of any care and
>repair needs
like the plague.
--
Roland Perry
Janet
Apr 11, 2017, 12:06:26 PM4/11/17
to
In article <9CdMifxu...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk says...
The Protection from Eviction Act 1977 defines harassment as: any act
(s) likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential
occupier or any members of his or her family.
His sexual behaviour to the tenants wife is also sexual harassment
"The Equality Act 2010 protects you from harassment by someone like a
landlord or estate agent. Harassment is a form of unlawful
discrimination and includes things like abusive or threatening comments,
jokes or behaviour."
Janet.
>
> In message <MPG.3356dc5...@news.individual.net>, at 13:28:37 on
> Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
> >> It's only harassment if he does it twice or more.
> >
> >
> >Cite?
>
> Harassment Act
>
> Prohibition of harassment.
>
> s1(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-
> (a) which amounts to harassment of another,
> ...
>
> s7(3) A "course of conduct" must involve-
>
> (a) in the case of conduct in relation to a single person (see
> section 1(1)), conduct on at least two occasions in
> relation to that person,
http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/harassment
> In message <MPG.3356dc5...@news.individual.net>, at 13:28:37 on
> Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
> >> It's only harassment if he does it twice or more.
> >
> >
> >Cite?
>
> Harassment Act
>
> Prohibition of harassment.
>
> s1(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-
> (a) which amounts to harassment of another,
> ...
>
> s7(3) A "course of conduct" must involve-
>
> (a) in the case of conduct in relation to a single person (see
> section 1(1)), conduct on at least two occasions in
> relation to that person,
The Protection from Eviction Act 1977 defines harassment as: any act
(s) likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential
occupier or any members of his or her family.
His sexual behaviour to the tenants wife is also sexual harassment
"The Equality Act 2010 protects you from harassment by someone like a
landlord or estate agent. Harassment is a form of unlawful
discrimination and includes things like abusive or threatening comments,
jokes or behaviour."
Janet.
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 12:16:18 PM4/11/17
to
In message <MPG.335708d...@news.individual.net>, at 16:38:35 on
hundreds of thousands a year aren't typical.
As a many-time tenant myself (and by proxy - two kids with 9yrs at Uni
under their belt so far) inspections[1] "mid term" are unknown, whatever
the agent might have promised the landlord.
[1] Other than the statutory gas-safe test by a contractor.
--
Roland Perry
>> > If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
>>
>> ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>> rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>
> In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
>part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
>landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
Can you specify what kind of lets you have in mind? Tenants paying
>>
>> ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>> rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>
> In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
>part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
>landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
hundreds of thousands a year aren't typical.
As a many-time tenant myself (and by proxy - two kids with 9yrs at Uni
under their belt so far) inspections[1] "mid term" are unknown, whatever
the agent might have promised the landlord.
[1] Other than the statutory gas-safe test by a contractor.
--
Roland Perry
Jon Ribbens
Apr 11, 2017, 12:16:47 PM4/11/17
to
Caecilius
Apr 11, 2017, 12:31:05 PM4/11/17
to
check-in/check-out. They may offer other services, like inventory
report, but invariably they just outsource this and add margin on top,
so it's best to go direct to a local firm to get the inventory report
prepared.
My experience is based on renting out a small number of properties in
SE England.
Janet
Apr 11, 2017, 12:34:13 PM4/11/17
to
In article <sTPYGH$nyP7...@perry.co.uk>, rol...@perry.co.uk says...
http://www.happylets.co.uk/landlord_service.php
Tenants paying
> hundreds of thousands a year aren't typical.
>
> As a many-time tenant myself (and by proxy - two kids with 9yrs at Uni
> under their belt so far) inspections[1] "mid term" are unknown, whatever
> the agent might have promised the landlord.
Not our family experience.
Janet.
>
> In message <MPG.335708d...@news.individual.net>, at 16:38:35 on
> Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>
> >> > If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
> >>
> >> ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
> >> rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
> >
> > In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
> >part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
> >landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
>
> Can you specify what kind of lets you have in mind?
Residential SATs.
> In message <MPG.335708d...@news.individual.net>, at 16:38:35 on
> Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>
> >> > If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
> >>
> >> ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
> >> rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
> >
> > In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
> >part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
> >landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
>
> Can you specify what kind of lets you have in mind?
http://www.happylets.co.uk/landlord_service.php
Tenants paying
> hundreds of thousands a year aren't typical.
>
> As a many-time tenant myself (and by proxy - two kids with 9yrs at Uni
> under their belt so far) inspections[1] "mid term" are unknown, whatever
> the agent might have promised the landlord.
Janet.
Janet
Apr 11, 2017, 12:44:29 PM4/11/17
to
In article <slrnoeq0ar.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>,
stable here.
Janet
jon+u...@unequivocal.eu says...
>
> On 2017-04-11, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> > In article <slrnoepm46.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>,
> > jon+u...@unequivocal.eu says...
> >> On 2017-04-11, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> >> > If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
> >>
> >> ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
> >> rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
> >
> > In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
> > part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
> > landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
>
> If so, their expectations are not generally being met.
Maybe Scotland's Landlord registration scheme has cleaned out the
>
> On 2017-04-11, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> > In article <slrnoepm46.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>,
> > jon+u...@unequivocal.eu says...
> >> On 2017-04-11, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> >> > If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
> >>
> >> ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
> >> rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
> >
> > In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
> > part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
> > landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
>
> If so, their expectations are not generally being met.
stable here.
Janet
Mark Goodge
Apr 11, 2017, 12:57:03 PM4/11/17
to
On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 16:57:52 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
Yes, and is why the RLA strongly recommends them as their absence may
render the landlord liable for the consequences of a preventable
problem that later develops into a serious one.
Although the tenant is the occupier and is responsible in the first
instance for informing the landlord of any problems or faults they
become aware of, the landlord cannot always rely on the tenant doing
so. Particularly if the landlord has reason to believe that the tenant
may be an unreliable reporter of such things. And some inspections
(such as a gas safety check) are a legal requirement that the landlord
is obliged to ensure are carried out by a suitably qualified person.
Mark
wrote:
render the landlord liable for the consequences of a preventable
problem that later develops into a serious one.
Although the tenant is the occupier and is responsible in the first
instance for informing the landlord of any problems or faults they
become aware of, the landlord cannot always rely on the tenant doing
so. Particularly if the landlord has reason to believe that the tenant
may be an unreliable reporter of such things. And some inspections
(such as a gas safety check) are a legal requirement that the landlord
is obliged to ensure are carried out by a suitably qualified person.
Mark
Jon Ribbens
Apr 11, 2017, 12:58:36 PM4/11/17
to
On 2017-04-11, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
> In article <slrnoeq0ar.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>,
> jon+u...@unequivocal.eu says...
>> On 2017-04-11, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>> > In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
>> > part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
>> > landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
>>
>> If so, their expectations are not generally being met.
>
> Maybe Scotland's Landlord registration scheme has cleaned out the
> stable here.
Oh, certainly, I would be surprised if many things weren't
> In article <slrnoeq0ar.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>,
> jon+u...@unequivocal.eu says...
>> On 2017-04-11, Janet <nob...@home.com> wrote:
>> > In my experience, visits to check the property during the tenancy form
>> > part of the service contract letting agents offer to landlords;
>> > landlords paying for such services expect them to be provided.
>>
>> If so, their expectations are not generally being met.
>
> Maybe Scotland's Landlord registration scheme has cleaned out the
> stable here.
considerably different in Scotland - although personally I wouldn't
characterise an increase in mid-tenancy checks as "cleaning out the
stables" so much as the opposite!
Janet
Apr 11, 2017, 2:07:30 PM4/11/17
to
In article <slrnoeq2pg.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>,
Letting agents in Scotland also need mandatory registration now
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/01/8389/1
"The objective of introducing letting agent regulation is to help
increase overall standards of service and professionalism within the
letting agent industry, whilst providing customers of letting agents
with an effective way to resolve complaints against letting agents for
breaches of the statutory Code of Practice through the Housing
Tribunal."
Janet.
http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2017/01/8389/1
"The objective of introducing letting agent regulation is to help
increase overall standards of service and professionalism within the
letting agent industry, whilst providing customers of letting agents
with an effective way to resolve complaints against letting agents for
breaches of the statutory Code of Practice through the Housing
Tribunal."
Janet.
Roland Perry
Apr 11, 2017, 4:25:51 PM4/11/17
to
In message <MPG.3357070...@news.individual.net>, at 16:30:54 on
> His sexual behaviour to the tenants wife is also sexual harassment
>
> "The Equality Act 2010 protects you from harassment by someone like a
>landlord or estate agent. Harassment is a form of unlawful
>discrimination and includes things like abusive or threatening comments,
>jokes or behaviour."
As far as I can see that's not a criminal offence, but something which
could trigger a civil action, if the harassment changes the "course of
history".
I'm not sure what in the OP's scenario would be engaged by this, unless
rebuffing the advances made the landlord decide to evict the family.
Do you have any caselaw about this, rather than arm-waving by a pressure
group?
--
Roland Perry
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Janet <nob...@home.com> remarked:
>> >> It's only harassment if he does it twice or more.
>> >
>> >Cite?
>>
>> Harassment Act
>>
>> Prohibition of harassment.
>>
>> s1(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-
>> (a) which amounts to harassment of another,
>> ...
>>
>> s7(3) A "course of conduct" must involve-
>>
>> (a) in the case of conduct in relation to a single person (see
>> section 1(1)), conduct on at least two occasions in
>> relation to that person,
>
>http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/harassment
>
> The Protection from Eviction Act 1977 defines harassment as: any act
>(s) likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential
The OP wasn't in danger of being evicted.
>> >> It's only harassment if he does it twice or more.
>> >
>> >Cite?
>>
>> Harassment Act
>>
>> Prohibition of harassment.
>>
>> s1(1) A person must not pursue a course of conduct-
>> (a) which amounts to harassment of another,
>> ...
>>
>> s7(3) A "course of conduct" must involve-
>>
>> (a) in the case of conduct in relation to a single person (see
>> section 1(1)), conduct on at least two occasions in
>> relation to that person,
>
>http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/content/harassment
>
> The Protection from Eviction Act 1977 defines harassment as: any act
>(s) likely to interfere with the peace or comfort of the residential
> His sexual behaviour to the tenants wife is also sexual harassment
>
> "The Equality Act 2010 protects you from harassment by someone like a
>landlord or estate agent. Harassment is a form of unlawful
>discrimination and includes things like abusive or threatening comments,
>jokes or behaviour."
could trigger a civil action, if the harassment changes the "course of
history".
I'm not sure what in the OP's scenario would be engaged by this, unless
rebuffing the advances made the landlord decide to evict the family.
Do you have any caselaw about this, rather than arm-waving by a pressure
group?
--
Roland Perry
steve robinson
Apr 11, 2017, 6:04:41 PM4/11/17
to
landlord will deny it as its her burden to prove any offence took
place . This could result in the landlord deciding to evict them at
the earliest opportunity and give them a poor reference.
I always have my phone on video record when i have to go into a
tenants house , protects me from malious allegations .
tim...
Apr 12, 2017, 3:31:13 AM4/12/17
to
"Janet" <nob...@home.com> wrote in message
news:MPG.335708d...@news.individual.net...
tenancy checks are a way that LA's have of increasing their fees to LLs by
insisting on performing (and charging for) a function that a LL doesn't
actually want provided.
tim
>
>
>
> Janet.
Iain
Apr 12, 2017, 4:59:43 AM4/12/17
to
Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> Wrote in message:
I think that it also depends upon the quality of the landlord.
This one is better than his father was. I have been in this
totally unfurnished flat for 37 years. He knows that I will
always let him know if there is a problem. However, it still took
10 years to mend a leak in the roof.
I always have let people in for checks and repairs - by mutual
arrangement. Sometimes even when I am not in. However, I believe
that his son wanted to establish his position and authority by
wanting to do his 'regular check' - the first in 37 years.
--
Iain
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
This one is better than his father was. I have been in this
totally unfurnished flat for 37 years. He knows that I will
always let him know if there is a problem. However, it still took
10 years to mend a leak in the roof.
I always have let people in for checks and repairs - by mutual
arrangement. Sometimes even when I am not in. However, I believe
that his son wanted to establish his position and authority by
wanting to do his 'regular check' - the first in 37 years.
--
Iain
----Android NewsGroup Reader----
http://usenet.sinaapp.com/
steve robinson
Apr 12, 2017, 5:01:49 AM4/12/17
to
most of the Landlords i deal with ( my self included) do a six
monthly maintenance check up . Plus any repairs are usually sorted
within 24 hours ( most get done same day) . It depends a lot on how
you view tenants , some landlords think they are vermin ad view them
purely as a cash cow , these are the ones you tend to have problems
with, i tend to look at it from would i be happy to live in the
house
steve robinson
Apr 12, 2017, 5:02:12 AM4/12/17
to
renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
precisely Ł12.00 type in details print out a new contract and post
it .
Same with any repairs they arrange , usually 40% markup
Roland Perry
Apr 12, 2017, 5:35:50 AM4/12/17
to
In message <912qec5c712qd78k5...@4ax.com>, at 17:56:51 on
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
assessment.
>Although the tenant is the occupier and is responsible in the first
>instance for informing the landlord of any problems or faults they
>become aware of, the landlord cannot always rely on the tenant doing
>so. Particularly if the landlord has reason to believe that the tenant
>may be an unreliable reporter of such things.
One of the student flats my son rented had a hole in the floorboards
just inside the front door you could easily put you foot through, had it
not been to some extent padded over by a doormat. The LL simply refused
to acknowledge let alone fix it, so tenants and visitors just knew to
watch their step literally).
The last place I rented had the back gate (on a side path) completely
rotted off its hinges/the post. The LL said he'd fix it before we moved
in. 18 mths later and numerous rolled eyes and "whatever's" from him, it
was still unrepaired when we moved out.
--
Roland Perry
Tue, 11 Apr 2017, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
>>> Routine checkups at reasonable intervals, conducted with proper
>>>notice,
>>
>>>notice,
>>
>>Which is why landlords and agents generally avoid doing such inspections
>>like the plague.
>
>Yes, and is why the RLA strongly recommends them as their absence may
>render the landlord liable for the consequences of a preventable
>problem that later develops into a serious one.
If it's a structural issue then the landlord will have an informal risk
>>like the plague.
>
>Yes, and is why the RLA strongly recommends them as their absence may
>render the landlord liable for the consequences of a preventable
>problem that later develops into a serious one.
assessment.
>Although the tenant is the occupier and is responsible in the first
>instance for informing the landlord of any problems or faults they
>become aware of, the landlord cannot always rely on the tenant doing
>so. Particularly if the landlord has reason to believe that the tenant
>may be an unreliable reporter of such things.
just inside the front door you could easily put you foot through, had it
not been to some extent padded over by a doormat. The LL simply refused
to acknowledge let alone fix it, so tenants and visitors just knew to
watch their step literally).
The last place I rented had the back gate (on a side path) completely
rotted off its hinges/the post. The LL said he'd fix it before we moved
in. 18 mths later and numerous rolled eyes and "whatever's" from him, it
was still unrepaired when we moved out.
--
Roland Perry
Chris R
Apr 12, 2017, 6:05:45 AM4/12/17
to
On 11/04/2017 23:24, steve robinson wrote:
>
> Its the agents way of making a few pounds , like the yearly tenancy
> renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
> precisely £12.00 type in details print out a new contract and post
>
> Its the agents way of making a few pounds , like the yearly tenancy
> renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
> it .
>
Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
--
Chris R
Roland Perry
Apr 12, 2017, 6:13:12 AM4/12/17
to
In message <ocktnl$rj4$1...@dont-email.me>, at 11:01:15 on Wed, 12 Apr
2017, Chris R <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> remarked:
>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
It's particularly helpful (for both parties) if they are in a market
aligned to one or other annual calendar. The most obvious being
"academic years".
Having students renting for exactly 12 months is a better proposition
than 10/11 or 13/14 months.
As it is there's sometimes a small amount of creep due to unforeseen
hiccups, and one student I know ended up couch-surfing the first week of
term because the only otherwise suitable place he could find to rent at
shortish notice was because the previous tenant had slightly overstayed.
--
Roland Perry
2017, Chris R <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> remarked:
>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
aligned to one or other annual calendar. The most obvious being
"academic years".
Having students renting for exactly 12 months is a better proposition
than 10/11 or 13/14 months.
As it is there's sometimes a small amount of creep due to unforeseen
hiccups, and one student I know ended up couch-surfing the first week of
term because the only otherwise suitable place he could find to rent at
shortish notice was because the previous tenant had slightly overstayed.
--
Roland Perry
Jon Ribbens
Apr 12, 2017, 7:14:15 AM4/12/17
to
On 2017-04-11, steve robinson <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 13:19:09 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
><jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
>>... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>>rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>
> Your legally required to have safety checks on gas every 12months ,
Well yes, legally-required gas safety checks, sure, but that's not
> On Tue, 11 Apr 2017 13:19:09 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
><jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> wrote:
>>... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>>rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>
> Your legally required to have safety checks on gas every 12months ,
what we were talking about. Those are done by someone specialising
in gas safety checks who won't so much as glance at anything else.
(Although personally I have found properties that have gas supplies
to be rare.)
> most of the Landlords i deal with ( my self included) do a six
> monthly maintenance check up . Plus any repairs are usually sorted
> within 24 hours ( most get done same day) .
Unicorn Fields by the Rainbow River during the Endless Summer
of Make-Believe, repairs usually get sorted within 24 hours.
Unfortunately, everywhere else they take months.
Ian Jackson
Apr 12, 2017, 7:34:36 AM4/12/17
to
In article <ocktnl$rj4$1...@dont-email.me>,
evict the tenant.
It does make moving awkward for the tenant, as they have to either
time their move to the 6 month tenancy schedule, or negotiate
specially with the letting agent (who are usually uncooperative), or
end up paying excess rent.
--
Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> These opinions are my own.
If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.
Chris R <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> wrote:
>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
The renewal fees at the main reason. It doesn't make it easier to
>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
evict the tenant.
It does make moving awkward for the tenant, as they have to either
time their move to the 6 month tenancy schedule, or negotiate
specially with the letting agent (who are usually uncooperative), or
end up paying excess rent.
--
Ian Jackson <ijac...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> These opinions are my own.
If I emailed you from an address @fyvzl.net or @evade.org.uk, that is
a private address which bypasses my fierce spamfilter.
Roland Perry
Apr 12, 2017, 7:45:04 AM4/12/17
to
In message <slrnoes2vl.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>, at 11:10:52
on Wed, 12 Apr 2017, Jon Ribbens <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> remarked:
>>>... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>>>rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>>
>> Your legally required to have safety checks on gas every 12months ,
>
>Well yes, legally-required gas safety checks, sure, but that's not
>what we were talking about. Those are done by someone specialising
>in gas safety checks who won't so much as glance at anything else.
>(Although personally I have found properties that have gas supplies
>to be rare.)
Apart from one out in the sticks with oil, I can't recall any rented
property that I've been associated with (from either side of the fence)
where there wasn't a gas central heating boiler.
Gas hobs/ovens and fires are quite rare though I agree.
>> most of the Landlords i deal with ( my self included) do a six
>> monthly maintenance check up . Plus any repairs are usually sorted
>> within 24 hours ( most get done same day) .
>
>Yes, in Utopiaville in the Land of Cloud Cuckoo, living in the
>Unicorn Fields by the Rainbow River during the Endless Summer
>of Make-Believe, repairs usually get sorted within 24 hours.
>Unfortunately, everywhere else they take months.
Steve gives every impression of being a conscientious and local
builder/LL and there's no reason to disbelieve him.
When I've been a LL I've fixed things ASAP - usually the biggest delay
is the commute.
But then I'm a "letting out former family home while posted elsewhere"
kind of a person. Not a commercial LL, who (with a few exceptions) have
their minds closed to the very idea of spending any money at all.
--
Roland Perry
on Wed, 12 Apr 2017, Jon Ribbens <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> remarked:
>>>... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
>>>rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>>
>> Your legally required to have safety checks on gas every 12months ,
>
>Well yes, legally-required gas safety checks, sure, but that's not
>what we were talking about. Those are done by someone specialising
>in gas safety checks who won't so much as glance at anything else.
>(Although personally I have found properties that have gas supplies
>to be rare.)
property that I've been associated with (from either side of the fence)
where there wasn't a gas central heating boiler.
Gas hobs/ovens and fires are quite rare though I agree.
>> most of the Landlords i deal with ( my self included) do a six
>> monthly maintenance check up . Plus any repairs are usually sorted
>> within 24 hours ( most get done same day) .
>
>Yes, in Utopiaville in the Land of Cloud Cuckoo, living in the
>Unicorn Fields by the Rainbow River during the Endless Summer
>of Make-Believe, repairs usually get sorted within 24 hours.
>Unfortunately, everywhere else they take months.
builder/LL and there's no reason to disbelieve him.
When I've been a LL I've fixed things ASAP - usually the biggest delay
is the commute.
But then I'm a "letting out former family home while posted elsewhere"
kind of a person. Not a commercial LL, who (with a few exceptions) have
their minds closed to the very idea of spending any money at all.
--
Roland Perry
Janet
Apr 12, 2017, 12:07:12 PM4/12/17
to
In article <el5aoi...@mid.individual.net>, sp...@smaps.net says...
> Subject: Re: Spare key for landlord?
> From: Iain <sp...@smaps.net>
> Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated
> > [quoted text muted]
perhaps the son has never actually seen inside the property he's taking
on from his father. So it seems reasonable for him to request an
inspection visit. It's also reasonable and polite to signal that as
your new LL he intends to inspect regularly. It's a requirement by some
LL insurance policies.
Janet
> Subject: Re: Spare key for landlord?
> From: Iain <sp...@smaps.net>
> Newsgroups: uk.legal.moderated
> > [quoted text muted]
> > become aware of, the landlord cannot always rely on the tenant doing
> > so. Particularly if the landlord has reason to believe that the tenant
> > may be an unreliable reporter of such things. And some inspections
> > (such as a gas safety check) are a legal requirement that the landlord
> > is obliged to ensure are carried out by a suitably qualified person.
>
> I think that it also depends upon the quality of the landlord.
> This one is better than his father was. I have been in this
> totally unfurnished flat for 37 years. He knows that I will
> always let him know if there is a problem. However, it still took
> 10 years to mend a leak in the roof.
>
> I always have let people in for checks and repairs - by mutual
> arrangement. Sometimes even when I am not in. However, I believe
> that his son wanted to establish his position and authority by
> wanting to do his 'regular check' - the first in 37 years.
>
If you lived in the property since the LL's son was a child,
> > so. Particularly if the landlord has reason to believe that the tenant
> > may be an unreliable reporter of such things. And some inspections
> > (such as a gas safety check) are a legal requirement that the landlord
> > is obliged to ensure are carried out by a suitably qualified person.
>
> I think that it also depends upon the quality of the landlord.
> This one is better than his father was. I have been in this
> totally unfurnished flat for 37 years. He knows that I will
> always let him know if there is a problem. However, it still took
> 10 years to mend a leak in the roof.
>
> I always have let people in for checks and repairs - by mutual
> arrangement. Sometimes even when I am not in. However, I believe
> that his son wanted to establish his position and authority by
> wanting to do his 'regular check' - the first in 37 years.
>
perhaps the son has never actually seen inside the property he's taking
on from his father. So it seems reasonable for him to request an
inspection visit. It's also reasonable and polite to signal that as
your new LL he intends to inspect regularly. It's a requirement by some
LL insurance policies.
Janet
Neil Williams
Apr 12, 2017, 12:48:22 PM4/12/17
to
On 2017-04-12 11:31:05 +0000, Roland Perry said:
> Apart from one out in the sticks with oil, I can't recall any rented
> property that I've been associated with (from either side of the fence)
> where there wasn't a gas central heating boiler.
Flats, certainly 1980s and 1990s ones, far more often have storage
> Apart from one out in the sticks with oil, I can't recall any rented
> property that I've been associated with (from either side of the fence)
> where there wasn't a gas central heating boiler.
heaters. Though fortunately (as storage heaters are crap) they have
more recently tended back to gas.
Neil
--
Neil Williams
Put my first name before the @ to reply.
Mr Pounder Esquire
Apr 12, 2017, 2:41:24 PM4/12/17
to
agent have simply given up on inspections.
All DHSS.
I did ask one agent to give notice to the tenants, she said "The hell with
that, just go and do it".
My visits were annual, on my first two visits I was bitten by fleas. I then
refused to go back after the agent told me that being bitten by fleas was
"part of the job".
tabb...@gmail.com
Apr 14, 2017, 3:12:20 AM4/14/17
to
On Tuesday, 11 April 2017 14:44:49 UTC+1, tim... wrote:
> "Jon Ribbens" <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> wrote in message
> news:slrnoepm46.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu...
It's common for tenants to do things that cause damage over time. Inspections pick those up, and a little friendly advice often prevents problems later. It's also a chance to organise repairs for issues the tenant has failed to report for whatever reason. And on occasion to explain how something works that the tenant has not got the hang of. So 2 or 3 benefits to tenants.
NT
> "Jon Ribbens" <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> wrote in message
> news:slrnoepm46.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu...
> > On 2017-04-11, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> >> If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
> >
> >> If a landlord is not carrying out a regular check, then he is being
> >
> > ... a completely normal landlord. In my experience it is extremely
> > rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>
> > rare that landlords (or their agents) carry out checks.
>
> and there's no reason why the should.
>
> They interfere with the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment without conferring
> any benefit to the tenant.
>
> tim
>
> They interfere with the tenant's right to quiet enjoyment without conferring
> any benefit to the tenant.
>
It's common for tenants to do things that cause damage over time. Inspections pick those up, and a little friendly advice often prevents problems later. It's also a chance to organise repairs for issues the tenant has failed to report for whatever reason. And on occasion to explain how something works that the tenant has not got the hang of. So 2 or 3 benefits to tenants.
NT
Neil Williams
Apr 14, 2017, 3:47:53 AM4/14/17
to
On 2017-04-14 04:12:43 +0000, tabb...@gmail.com said:
> It's common for tenants to do things that cause damage over time.
> Inspections pick those up, and a little friendly advice often prevents
> problems later. It's also a chance to organise repairs for issues the
> tenant has failed to report for whatever reason. And on occasion to
> explain how something works that the tenant has not got the hang of. So
> 2 or 3 benefits to tenants.
Agreed. I never had an issue with an annual inspection (they started 6
> It's common for tenants to do things that cause damage over time.
> Inspections pick those up, and a little friendly advice often prevents
> problems later. It's also a chance to organise repairs for issues the
> tenant has failed to report for whatever reason. And on occasion to
> explain how something works that the tenant has not got the hang of. So
> 2 or 3 benefits to tenants.
monthly and moved to annual once I'd been there a while), it was an
opportunity to point out things that could do with work but weren't
urgent.
steve robinson
Apr 16, 2017, 7:14:38 AM4/16/17
to
On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:10:52 -0000 (UTC), Jon Ribbens
Depends on the Landlords , most are pretty decent people
steve robinson
Apr 16, 2017, 7:15:28 AM4/16/17
to
On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 12:31:05 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:
Thanks Roland its actually nice to be appreciated
wrote:
steve robinson
Apr 16, 2017, 7:55:10 AM4/16/17
to
gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
Also helps to offload nuisance tenants quickly and cheaply under
section 21 no reason has to be given other than its the end of the
tenancy .
Tenants know when to expect a rental increase too
Roland Perry
Apr 16, 2017, 10:29:09 AM4/16/17
to
In message <hdk6fc5s6dksktefq...@4ax.com>, at 12:13:34 on
Sun, 16 Apr 2017, steve robinson <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk>
remarked:
>>> most of the Landlords i deal with ( my self included) do a six
>>> monthly maintenance check up . Plus any repairs are usually sorted
>>> within 24 hours ( most get done same day) .
>>
>>Yes, in Utopiaville in the Land of Cloud Cuckoo, living in the
>>Unicorn Fields by the Rainbow River during the Endless Summer
>>of Make-Believe, repairs usually get sorted within 24 hours.
>>Unfortunately, everywhere else they take months.
>
>Depends on the Landlords , most are pretty decent people
I suspect the anecdata is skewed because while there are lots of
one-property decent landlords, many properties are let by not such good
landlords with large portfolios.
There are of course counter-examples in both directions, good landlords
with a portfolio, and bad landlords with just one. The worst of the
latter I was tenant of, had emigrated and his instructions to the agents
managing the property were "spend no money at all, however loud the
tenant complains".
Of course, that agent was below par too, trying to charge against the
deposit for window cleaning, which were filthy when I moved in, and
perfectly acceptable when I moved out.
--
Roland Perry
Sun, 16 Apr 2017, steve robinson <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk>
remarked:
>>> most of the Landlords i deal with ( my self included) do a six
>>> monthly maintenance check up . Plus any repairs are usually sorted
>>> within 24 hours ( most get done same day) .
>>
>>Yes, in Utopiaville in the Land of Cloud Cuckoo, living in the
>>Unicorn Fields by the Rainbow River during the Endless Summer
>>of Make-Believe, repairs usually get sorted within 24 hours.
>>Unfortunately, everywhere else they take months.
>
>Depends on the Landlords , most are pretty decent people
one-property decent landlords, many properties are let by not such good
landlords with large portfolios.
There are of course counter-examples in both directions, good landlords
with a portfolio, and bad landlords with just one. The worst of the
latter I was tenant of, had emigrated and his instructions to the agents
managing the property were "spend no money at all, however loud the
tenant complains".
Of course, that agent was below par too, trying to charge against the
deposit for window cleaning, which were filthy when I moved in, and
perfectly acceptable when I moved out.
--
Roland Perry
tim...
Apr 16, 2017, 4:42:40 PM4/16/17
to
"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
news:evj6fctqtmng893qr...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:01:15 +0100, Chris R
> <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>On 11/04/2017 23:24, steve robinson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Its the agents way of making a few pounds , like the yearly tenancy
>>> renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
>>> precisely £12.00 type in details print out a new contract and post
>>> it .
>>>
>>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
>
> Yes it guarantees the tenants are staying for another 12 months so
> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
but locks them in if they don't want that
> <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> wrote:
>
>>On 11/04/2017 23:24, steve robinson wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Its the agents way of making a few pounds , like the yearly tenancy
>>> renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
>>> precisely £12.00 type in details print out a new contract and post
>>> it .
>>>
>>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
>
> Yes it guarantees the tenants are staying for another 12 months so
> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
> Also helps to offload nuisance tenants quickly and cheaply under
> section 21 no reason has to be given other than its the end of the
> tenancy .
can do this for any month not just the twelfth
> Tenants know when to expect a rental increase too
per year so there is no difference here either
tim
steve robinson
Apr 17, 2017, 5:59:56 PM4/17/17
to
On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:10:54 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>
>"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:evj6fctqtmng893qr...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:01:15 +0100, Chris R
>> <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/04/2017 23:24, steve robinson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Its the agents way of making a few pounds , like the yearly tenancy
>>>> renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
>>>> precisely £12.00 type in details print out a new contract and post
>>>> it .
>>>>
>>>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>>>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>>>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>>>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
>>
>> Yes it guarantees the tenants are staying for another 12 months so
>> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
>
>but locks them in if they don't want that
If they don't wish to be locked in for a further 12 months they don't
have to accept a 12 month contract, they can ask for a 6 month or go
periodic , no ones forcing them to stay .
certificate, energy rating certificate with all the information in
one place, stops misunderstandings and confusion further down the
line .
>tim
>
>
>
>
wrote:
>
>
>"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:evj6fctqtmng893qr...@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:01:15 +0100, Chris R
>> <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On 11/04/2017 23:24, steve robinson wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Its the agents way of making a few pounds , like the yearly tenancy
>>>> renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
>>>> precisely £12.00 type in details print out a new contract and post
>>>> it .
>>>>
>>>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>>>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>>>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>>>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
>>
>> Yes it guarantees the tenants are staying for another 12 months so
>> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
>
>but locks them in if they don't want that
have to accept a 12 month contract, they can ask for a 6 month or go
periodic , no ones forcing them to stay .
>
>> Also helps to offload nuisance tenants quickly and cheaply under
>> section 21 no reason has to be given other than its the end of the
>> tenancy .
>
>no reason has to be given for issuing a S21 during a periodic tenancy. LLs
>can do this for any month not just the twelfth
>
>> Tenants know when to expect a rental increase too
>
>using a S13 to increase the rent on a periodic tenancy can only be done once
>per year so there is no difference here either
>
i find its simpler done on renewal , new tenant pack , gas safe
>> Also helps to offload nuisance tenants quickly and cheaply under
>> section 21 no reason has to be given other than its the end of the
>> tenancy .
>
>no reason has to be given for issuing a S21 during a periodic tenancy. LLs
>can do this for any month not just the twelfth
>
>> Tenants know when to expect a rental increase too
>
>using a S13 to increase the rent on a periodic tenancy can only be done once
>per year so there is no difference here either
>
certificate, energy rating certificate with all the information in
one place, stops misunderstandings and confusion further down the
line .
>tim
>
>
>
>
Jon Ribbens
Apr 17, 2017, 6:04:13 PM4/17/17
to
On 2017-04-17, steve robinson <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote:
> On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:10:54 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:evj6fctqtmng893qr...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:10:54 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>>"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:evj6fctqtmng893qr...@4ax.com...
>>> Yes it guarantees the tenants are staying for another 12 months so
>>> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
>>
>>but locks them in if they don't want that
>
> If they don't wish to be locked in for a further 12 months they don't
> have to accept a 12 month contract, they can ask for a 6 month or go
> periodic , no ones forcing them to stay .
"No one's forcing people to need protection from the elements,
>>> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
>>
>>but locks them in if they don't want that
>
> If they don't wish to be locked in for a further 12 months they don't
> have to accept a 12 month contract, they can ask for a 6 month or go
> periodic , no ones forcing them to stay .
nobody's forcing people to need to breathe oxygen, or eat food,
people can choose to starve to death in the streets if they want
to."
Neil Williams
Apr 17, 2017, 6:07:14 PM4/17/17
to
On 2017-04-17 20:19:04 +0000, steve robinson said:
> i find its simpler done on renewal , new tenant pack , gas safe
> certificate, energy rating certificate with all the information in
> one place, stops misunderstandings and confusion further down the
> line .
As a long-term tenant (before I bought) I preferred a rolling tenancy,
> i find its simpler done on renewal , new tenant pack , gas safe
> certificate, energy rating certificate with all the information in
> one place, stops misunderstandings and confusion further down the
> line .
as it removes the admin costs. Increases were done periodically as
necessary.
Roland Perry
Apr 18, 2017, 4:29:28 AM4/18/17
to
In message <slrnofaeui.2...@sable.unequivocal.eu>, at 22:00:54
on Mon, 17 Apr 2017, Jon Ribbens <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> remarked:
leave it" basis.
--
Roland Perry
on Mon, 17 Apr 2017, Jon Ribbens <jon+u...@unequivocal.eu> remarked:
>>>> Yes it guarantees the tenants are staying for another 12 months so
>>>> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
>>>
>>>but locks them in if they don't want that
>>
>> If they don't wish to be locked in for a further 12 months they don't
>> have to accept a 12 month contract, they can ask for a 6 month or go
>> periodic , no ones forcing them to stay .
>
>"No one's forcing people to need protection from the elements,
>nobody's forcing people to need to breathe oxygen, or eat food,
>people can choose to starve to death in the streets if they want
>to."
Quite. And a lot of student rentals are on a "12 months only, take it or
>>>> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
>>>
>>>but locks them in if they don't want that
>>
>> If they don't wish to be locked in for a further 12 months they don't
>> have to accept a 12 month contract, they can ask for a 6 month or go
>> periodic , no ones forcing them to stay .
>
>"No one's forcing people to need protection from the elements,
>nobody's forcing people to need to breathe oxygen, or eat food,
>people can choose to starve to death in the streets if they want
>to."
leave it" basis.
--
Roland Perry
tim...
Apr 18, 2017, 8:10:05 AM4/18/17
to
news:j48afctnr0af6fvql...@4ax.com...
but when the process is handled by a letting agent the tone of the letters
that they send is usually to "force" tenants into accepting it, even if the
LA can't actually follow through with the consequences implied in the letter
if it isn't agreed.
Cynics like me will say that this is because the LA have sniffed the
opportunity to rake in some extra fees. We'll just have to wait and see how
the ground changes when/if such fees are abolished
tim
> On Sun, 16 Apr 2017 19:10:54 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:evj6fctqtmng893qr...@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:01:15 +0100, Chris R
>>> <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 11/04/2017 23:24, steve robinson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Its the agents way of making a few pounds , like the yearly tenancy
>>>>> renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
>>>>> precisely £12.00 type in details print out a new contract and post
>>>>> it .
>>>>>
>>>>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>>>>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>>>>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>>>>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
>>>
>>> Yes it guarantees the tenants are staying for another 12 months so
>>> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
>>
>>but locks them in if they don't want that
>
> If they don't wish to be locked in for a further 12 months they don't
> have to accept a 12 month contract, they can ask for a 6 month or go
> periodic , no ones forcing them to stay .
you may not
> wrote:
>
>>
>>
>>"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:evj6fctqtmng893qr...@4ax.com...
>>> On Wed, 12 Apr 2017 11:01:15 +0100, Chris R
>>> <invalid...@invalid.invalid.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 11/04/2017 23:24, steve robinson wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Its the agents way of making a few pounds , like the yearly tenancy
>>>>> renewel which they used to charge large silly money for , costs me
>>>>> precisely £12.00 type in details print out a new contract and post
>>>>> it .
>>>>>
>>>>Is there any good reason (apart from generating agents' charges) for
>>>>having ASTs with regular renewals, rather than say six months' fixed
>>>>term and then continuing until terminated on notice? Does it make it
>>>>easier to increase the rent, or to remove the tenant?
>>>
>>> Yes it guarantees the tenants are staying for another 12 months so
>>> gives financial stability. Also gives the tenants security
>>
>>but locks them in if they don't want that
>
> If they don't wish to be locked in for a further 12 months they don't
> have to accept a 12 month contract, they can ask for a 6 month or go
> periodic , no ones forcing them to stay .
but when the process is handled by a letting agent the tone of the letters
that they send is usually to "force" tenants into accepting it, even if the
LA can't actually follow through with the consequences implied in the letter
if it isn't agreed.
Cynics like me will say that this is because the LA have sniffed the
opportunity to rake in some extra fees. We'll just have to wait and see how
the ground changes when/if such fees are abolished
tim
steve robinson
Apr 19, 2017, 5:17:58 PM4/19/17
to
On Mon, 17 Apr 2017 23:06:28 +0100, Neil Williams
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2017-04-17 20:19:04 +0000, steve robinson said:
>
>> i find its simpler done on renewal , new tenant pack , gas safe
>> certificate, energy rating certificate with all the information in
>> one place, stops misunderstandings and confusion further down the
>> line .
>
>As a long-term tenant (before I bought) I preferred a rolling tenancy,
>as it removes the admin costs. Increases were done periodically as
>necessary.
>
>Neil
We don't charge admin fees for contract renewals , it doesn't cost us
<wensl...@pacersplace.org.uk> wrote:
>On 2017-04-17 20:19:04 +0000, steve robinson said:
>
>> i find its simpler done on renewal , new tenant pack , gas safe
>> certificate, energy rating certificate with all the information in
>> one place, stops misunderstandings and confusion further down the
>> line .
>
>As a long-term tenant (before I bought) I preferred a rolling tenancy,
>as it removes the admin costs. Increases were done periodically as
>necessary.
>
>Neil
anything so why fleece the tenant . We will charge for credit
reference checks on new lets but that's at cost .
How some agencies can have the brass neck to charge £400 fees for a
new tenancy and £200 for renewel beggars belief , once a contract is
written it costs pennies to duplicate
steve robinson
Apr 20, 2017, 2:11:39 AM4/20/17
to
On Tue, 18 Apr 2017 11:40:48 +0100, "tim..." <tims_n...@yahoo.com>
Its a cash cow for agencies and boy do they milk it. We don't use
them
them
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