Unadopted Road Maintenance
Vortex4
Access to my home is via an unadopted road. In fact about 40 homes depend
on the road for access.
There is no formal neighbourhood maintenance arrangement. Potholes - as
they appear - being filled with hardcore/rubble or whatever is
available...usually by the homeowners directly affected (eg those that face
the road).
Recently, and particularly after the recent snow/ice the condition of the
road has become so bad that there is a consensus that we should invest in
having it properly surfaced. Problem is that there are a vocal minority who
are utterly opposed to any such works.
My understanding is that the road is NOT privately owned by the residents
and has at some time in the distant past been defined by the Council as a
"potentially adoptable road". That's all I know at the moment.
Q. If as a result of a transparent democratic vote a majority agree to
fund a "professional" upgrade to the road surface, can we just get on with
it? Will we be entering a legal nest of vipers?
Can anybody recommend any external resources that would be of assistance?
David
Peter Crosland
news:7ta2iq...@mid.individual.net...
As a general rule a local authority will only adopt a road if it is in good
order and to their specification along with the appropriate legalities. You
would need to look at the deeds/Land Registry entries for each property to
establish what, if any, liability they had for repair or maintenance.
Peter Crosland
Ian
> My understanding is that the road is NOT privately owned by the residents
> and has at some time in the distant past been defined by the Council as a
> "potentially adoptable road". That's all I know at the moment.
>
> Q. If as a result of a transparent democratic vote a majority agree to
> fund a "professional" upgrade to the road surface, can we just get on with
> it?
Are you allowed to stick tarmac on a piece of land belonging to
someone else?
Ian
steve robinson
Firstly check your deeds they may give you some idea who has
responsiblity to maintain the road and possibly ownership .
Its not uncommon for householders to own a section of the road in
these cases which may solve some of your problems but create more
A lot gets lost in translation over the decades
It may state that householders are responsible for the roads upkeep
might even identify the owners
If you go ahead and get the roadway done you could be laying
yourselves open to future legal action if its not done to the correct
standard and damage or injury occurs .Its not just a case of slinging
a bit of tarmac down the road will need to be dug out hardcored
graded , this isnt a cheap option , it wouldnt suprise me if it cost
5K a house or more
You also land yourself with the job of permently maintaining it too
indefinetly
I would contact your local council and see if they will take the road
on but with current financial constraints ts going to e an uphill
struggle
The other issue is getting people to cough up
steve robinson
No
tim....
"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xn0gq5b3r...@news.virginmedia.com...
It would surprise me if, done properly, it were that little, but I would
only be guessing
tim
steve robinson
Im working on the basis of single track road with houses either side
, no footpaths and the whole road done in one hit , no drains
wider road and buildings only on one side then your looking at
double or possibly treble that amount , drains then your looking at
telephone numbers
Ian Jackson
<st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> writes
What if you do? That's exactly what we have to do in the road where I
live. In fact, a few years ago, we had the whole road (serving around 35
houses) professionally completely resurfaced - maybe not to local
authority standards, but a darn sight better than just filling in the
potholes (which is what we did before).
I think that the cost was around �35k, but it was money well spent for,
so far, there have been no new potholes. Of course, getting everyone to
pay is another problem.
--
Ian
Vortex4
"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xn0gq5b3r...@news.virginmedia.com...
We're under no illusions about the cost.
The Council have had multiple approaches and definitely "won't go there".
I guess the key lies in explicitly establishing the ownership of road.
David
Usenet Nutter
So you are both sort of agreed then ...anyway I don't see how a cost
per house can be put on it if nobody knows how long this piece of road
is .I don't think the OP is actually saying 40 homes front on to the
road .
Robbie
Out of interest, why are some people strongly opposed to the road being
upgraded / improved?
Adrian
they were saying:
> Out of interest, why are some people strongly opposed to the road being
> upgraded / improved?
If it's likely to cost a grand plus per house, I think we can take a
fairly good guess...
tim....
"Robbie" <ngrob...@hotmailSPAM.com> wrote in message
news:7tb7ba...@mid.individual.net...
Because they have to pay.
Whenever you live in a self managed block of flats there will always be
people who don't want things done because it costs money, however necessary
the item is
tim
Mr X
"Adrian" <tooma...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:7tbgu7...@mid.individual.net...
Kipling
>>
>> Out of interest, why are some people strongly opposed to the road being
>> upgraded / improved?
>
> Because they have to pay.
>
> Whenever you live in a self managed block of flats there will always be
> people who don't want things done because it costs money, however
> necessary
> the item is
I've often wondered what happens in cases like that where the roof leaks on
a block of flats 6 stories high and the flat at the bottom won't pay.
Nogood Boyo
>
> Can anybody recommend any external resources that would be of assistance?
>
I saw a link to this site in a similar discussion here some time ago.
http://www.privateroads.co.uk/
Not in a position to recommend them, as I haven't been in touch with
them yet but I was planning to, because we have a similar situation
here.
We did our road between us 25 years ago but it needs doing again.
Because we did most of the work (inc drainage of hillside springs)
ourselves, it didn't cost much - the final tarmac layer cost the
most. I don't think we paid much more than £100 per house - probably
about 80 houses affected over about half a mile. Some didn't pay,
especially those living nearest to the public road. But I'd happily
do it again - it was a great way of getting the community together -
the young fit ones did the hard digging, a retired bricklayer
constructed proper drains, a builder helped us to get levels right,
one bloke spent months acquiring materials from various sources (inc
the Council, who were helpful as long as they didn't have to adopt the
road, which they haven't, because it doesn't meet their requirements),
WAGs kept us supplied with drinks, we all got to know everyone else on
the road and it was great. In our case we didn't know who owned the
road (it isn't on the deeds of properties along the road) so we just
got on with it and no-one has complained. If you've got a good
organiser and plenty of volunteers, it's worth a try - it brings lots
of benefits.
--
Nogood Boyo
steve robinson
They ultimately get taken to court and the property repossesed , its
just hard on the other occupants because they are jointly responsible
for the debt
steve robinson
Costs have risen a little in the last 25 years
IBy tarmacing the road yourself you take on the legal responsiblity
not a wise thing to do if it doesnt meet the required standards as
layed down by the building regulations / local authority .
Martin Bonner
wrote:
> By tarmacing the road yourself you take on the legal responsiblity
> not a wise thing to do if it doesnt meet the required standards as
> layed down by the building regulations / local authority .
This sounds rather like the "clearing the snow can get you sued" urban
legend.
If you make things better than they would otherwise have been, I don't
see what liability you would have. (Obviously, if you removed a
basically sound macadamed surface, and replaced it with a concrete one
that was crap, then after a couple of winters things might be worse
than they would otherwise have been - in that case you might be
liable.)
Nogood Boyo
wrote:
> Costs have risen a little in the last 25 years
>
> IBy tarmacing the road yourself you take on the legal responsiblity
> not a wise thing to do if it doesnt meet the required standards as
> layed down by the building regulations / local authority .
Which legal responsibility exactly? Which required standards? The
road is not going to be adopted.
In our case the Local Authority supplied lots of surplus materials
FOC, including several hundred tonnes of hot "scalpings" from local
road resurfacing for the last-but-one layer.
--
Nogood Boyo
Dr Zoidberg
"Mr X" <inv...@invalid.com> wrote in message
news:hkq3s1$i2f$1...@news.ox.ac.uk...
any real benefit , and if you haven't got the money to "spare" then a lot of
people are going to be reluctant to pay up.
--
Alex
Dr Zoidberg
"Kipling" <A...@andYouWillBeTold.com> wrote in message
news:7tblaf...@mid.individual.net...
court as a last resort , I suppose.
--
Alex
Vortex4
I agree. It's more than cost. There certainly are concenrs about traffic
safety, for example.
IMHO there is a significant element of irrationality.
D
Vortex4
>> Can anybody recommend any external resources that would be of
>> assistance?
>>
>>
>>
>> David
>
> Firstly check your deeds they may give you some idea who has
> responsiblity to maintain the road and possibly ownership .
>
> Its not uncommon for householders to own a section of the road in
> these cases which may solve some of your problems but create more
>
> A lot gets lost in translation over the decades
>
Yesterday I discovered this very interesting (and presumably well informed)
briefing document:
http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/research/briefings/snbt-00402.pdf
The key points I glean from this are (section C):
* Strictly speaking responsibility for maintenance rests with the
"frontagers".
* Even if ownership is unknown frontagers can take over management of the
road.
* The highway authority can compel frontagers to undertake repairs.
It would be interesting to know in our case of a majority of frontagers
support improvements
D
Usenet Nutter
I think that in Scotland not so long ago there was legislation
brought in that, in certain circumstances, allowed a majority to get
the work to go ahead and iirc recover the money from the non paying
party(ies) later .This might only be where it was necessary to prevent
damage to the fabric of the building .
Usenet Nutter
Why should the property be repo'd for non payment of a maintenance
bill . The property might not even have a charge over it by a BS or
Bank.
Vortex4
>> plenty of volunteers, it's worth a try - it brings lots of benefits.
>
> Costs have risen a little in the last 25 years
>
> IBy tarmacing the road yourself you take on the legal responsiblity
> not a wise thing to do if it doesnt meet the required standards as
> layed down by the building regulations / local authority .
I posted a link earlier to this illuminating (and presumably well informed)
document, but it got lost in moderation:
tim....
"Usenet Nutter" <indivi...@takeoutmyteethgmail.com> wrote in message
news:kak2n55ql7kg1q8hl...@4ax.com...
It's not
the actual term is lease forfeiture (back to the freeholder of the block)
tim
steve robinson
The difficulty being deciding the level of repair , some may demand
tarmac , others concrete some may say gravel .All have different
costings and maintaince levels
They can also argue over improvement costs as apposed to maintainance
costs which can be significant
steve robinson
I said ultimatly .
If they dont meet thier portion of the maintainance costs as per the
lease then the lease can be forfit and the property repossesed
..unlikely if its only a few hundred pounds but in some cases it can
be thousands
It has become a major problem in some cities where people have bought
council flats and are suddenly landed with a 30k bill for
refurbishment works
Michael Chare
news:7tcmet...@mid.individual.net...
>
>
> I agree. It's more than cost. There certainly are concenrs about traffic
> safety, for example.
>
> IMHO there is a significant element of irrationality.
>
I am glad that the road to my house now has tarmac, particularly as I live
near the end.
Fortunately, in our case we knew who the owner was.
We have two road bumps to slow vehicles down. I curse the day that I did
not suggest an alternative position for one of them!
--
Michael Chare
gran...@gmail.com
What I want to know is, that my property is lease hold, so I own the apartment but not the ground underneath it. I pay to lease that, so why am I liable when I rent the ground, why isnt the lease owner who owns the ground liable for the road too?
Help would be appreciated please.
Tim Watts
unadopted road.
All the ones around here are shot and full of monsterous pits of doom.
Even if your liability is joint, you'll never get anyone else to cough
up (my personal experience with a shared private sewer (luckily a
problem that was solved for me by act of parliament)
David L. Martel
There's no law that states tht you must maintain this road. But there is
a clause in the contract. Continue looking for a new home.
Good luck,
Dave M.
newshound
point, but doesn't it really depend on how small is a small strip, and
what sort of condition is it in. I can think of a local (non tarmaced)
shared drive with a pot-hole in it which could be fixed in half a day by
a man with a wacker and a ton of Type 1, not much more than �100. That
would probably last ten years with light traffic.
Nogood Boyo
"newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote in message
news:uK6dneHgW-LCgX_O...@brightview.co.uk...
and do most repairs ourselves, a few evenings and weekends a year. There's
always someone with the skills / tools / contacts needed. About two thirds
of the residents cough up �30 a year. For major repairs we have an extra
whip round and employ someone - the local council gave us a good price last
time we needed a lot of resurfacing . It's worked OK like that for the last
35 years. In fact it's a good way of getting to know more distant
neighbours. Most people accept that it's in their interests to keep the road
repaired - car repairs and house values. Some absent landlords and their
tenants and some grumpy bastards opt out but we manage without them. In case
of mishaps we have third party insurance provided by Private Roads Services
Ltd - www.privateroads.co.uk.
Nogood Boyo
Nogood Boyo
"newshound" <news...@stevejqr.plus.com> wrote in message
news:uK6dneHgW-LCgX_O...@brightview.co.uk...
and do most repairs ourselves, a few evenings and weekends a year. There's
always someone with the skills / tools / contacts needed. About two thirds
of the residents cough up �30 a year. For major repairs we have an extra
whip round and employ someone - the local council gave us a good price last
time we needed a lot of resurfacing . It's worked OK like that for the last
35 years. In fact it's a good way of getting to know more distant
neighbours. Most people accept that it's in their interests to keep the road
repaired - car repairs and house values. Some absent landlords and their
tenants and some grumpy bastards opt out but we manage without them. In case
specialises in private roads.
Nogood Boyo