Lampshades

[Andrew May]

When I have bought lampshades in the past I have always been careful to
check the recommended bulb power in the belief that to exceed it is a
potential fire hazard.

However on a recent foray I noticed that a certain large retailer does
not provide this information on many of the lampshades that they sell.

Is there any legal requirement to do so? It seems the sort of thing that
the product labelling regulation would provide for.

Andrew

[Mark Goodge]

On Thu, 16 Aug 2012 15:10:03 +0100, Andrew May put finger to keyboard and
typed:

I suspect that it's no longer relevant, because the fire risk is from the
heat of the bulb and it is no longer possible to buy incadescent bulbs of
sufficient power for that to be an issue.

Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk

[steve robinson]

Its pointless labelling them now because you can no longer buy the old
style incandesance fillament lamps from retail outlets , the
replacement lamps do not emit as much heat and are usally lower rated
for power consumption

[Owain]

On Aug 16, 5:45 pm, Mark Goodge wrote:
> I suspect that it's no longer relevant, because the fire risk is from the
> heat of the bulb and it is no longer possible to buy incadescent bulbs of
> sufficient power for that to be an issue.

But it is.

They're just called "rough service" now and sold for "specialised use"
so exempt from the regulation.

Here's a nice 200W BC one for you.
http://www.pennylaneelectrical.co.uk/200w-light-bulbs-bc-pearl-light-bulbs-200w-bc-lamps-p-1542.html

Owain

[Norman Wells]

It's probably because you're not allowed to buy bulbs any more that you
could even warm your hands on, let alone set fire to the universe.

[Lordgnome]

It might be a bit difficult to be precise. How do you evaluate the
wonderful new lamps which we are all now forced to buy in order to save
the planet? In theory at least, they give an equivalent light for less
power, so does the lampshade man specify on the purported light
equivalence, or the actual power consumed by the device? Also given that
the heat can either come from the lamp or the bit of electronics used to
energise the lamp, and as these come in many differing shapes and
configurations, I can understand them giving up the plot!

Les.

[Nightjar]

It is the manufacture of such lamps that is banned, not the sale, and a
lot of retailers still have large stocks of lamps up to 200W.

Colin Bignell

[steve robinson]

They are not usally available from high street retailers though and
when sold are not sold as suitable for domestic use

[Flop]

Robert Dyas will sell 100W bulbs:

http://www.robertdyas.co.uk/P~148523_bundle~Osram-R80-Reflector-Spot-100W-ES-Twin-Pack


Flop

[rogerbl...@googlemail.com]

It would be very unusual to use these reflector type spotlights with a lampshade . . .

[Martin Bonner]

On Thursday, 16 August 2012 17:25:02 UTC+1, Lordgnome wrote:
> On 16/08/2012 15:10, Andrew May wrote:
>
> > When I have bought lampshades in the past I have always been careful
> > to check the recommended bulb power in the belief that to exceed it is
> > a potential fire hazard.
>
> > However on a recent foray I noticed that a certain large retailer does
> > not provide this information on many of the lampshades that they sell.
>
> > Is there any legal requirement to do so? It seems the sort of thing
> > that the product labelling regulation would provide for.
>

> It might be a bit difficult to be precise. How do you evaluate the
> wonderful new lamps which we are all now forced to buy in order to save
> the planet? In theory at least, they give an equivalent light for less
> power, so does the lampshade man specify on the purported light
> equivalence, or the actual power consumed by the device?

Actual power consumed (as that is what is turned into heat).

> Also given that
> the heat can either come from the lamp or the bit of electronics used to
> energise the lamp, and as these come in many differing shapes and
> configurations, I can understand them giving up the plot!

Doesn't really matter. They will assume that all the power consumed will come out as heat in the bulb.

Unless you use incandescent lightbulbs, there won't be a problem.

[Scion]

Flop spake thus:

The Pound Shop still sells 60W and 100W standard BC lamps.

[Scion]

steve robinson spake thus:

Argos label their lampshades with different wattages for incandescent and
CFL. E.g. 60W incandescent / 12W CFL.

[Andrew May]

On 16/08/2012 17:45, Mark Goodge wrote:

Not Tungstan maybe but this:

http://www.johnlewis.com/151394/Product.aspx

would be just as capable of causing a fire if the wrong shade was used.
And, not exactly something you can only buy from a dodgy retailer
flouting the law.

[Andrew May]

I have seen two views on this. From a strictly safety point of view
since most energy consumed by any bulb is emitted as heat then the
absolute wattage is what should be considered. However I have also seen
it stated as a rule of thumb that for a CFL the equivalent wattage
should be used in order to avoid overheating the drive electronics.

Either way if the consumer is not given the information by the retailer
then they cannot make appropriate and safe decisions.

Hence my question as to whether there was any statutory requirement for
this information to be provided and it is the legal aspects in which I
am interested.

Andrew

[Andy Burns]

Scion wrote:

> Argos label their lampshades with different wattages for incandescent and
> CFL. E.g. 60W incandescent / 12W CFL.

What's the point of that? The 12W CFL will chuck out less than 1/5th of
the heat the incandescent would.

[Ian Jackson]

In message <E_-dnZ4C277R87PN...@brightview.co.uk>, Andy
Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> writes

It's not just Argos. I've seen that in several shops.

However, the actual safe maximum wattage may not depend solely on the
heat produced by the lightbulb. Any light which the lampshade absorbs
will also be converted to heat. Although totally useless, an extreme
case would be a completely opaque, black lampshade which completely
surrounded the lightbulb. Even with a 100% efficient lightbulb, it would
get hot.
--
Ian

[Percy Picacity]

Not significantly with a CFL. They produce very little infra red, and
the energy in the visible light is not great.

--

Percy Picacity

[Lordgnome]

On 19/08/2012 00:55, Percy Picacity wrote:
>
> Not significantly with a CFL. They produce very little infra red, and
> the energy in the visible light is not great.
>

Too true - you need to light a match to see if the darned things are
switched on!

Les.

[Martin Bonner]

On Friday, 17 August 2012 20:20:02 UTC+1, Ian Jackson wrote:
> In message <E_-dnZ4C277R87PN...@brightview.co.uk>, Andy
> Burns <usenet....@adslpipe.co.uk> writes
> >Scion wrote:
> >
>
> >> Argos label their lampshades with different wattages for incandescent and
> >> CFL. E.g. 60W incandescent / 12W CFL.
>
> >What's the point of that? The 12W CFL will chuck out less than 1/5th of
> >the heat the incandescent would.
>
> It's not just Argos. I've seen that in several shops.
>
> However, the actual safe maximum wattage may not depend solely on the
> heat produced by the lightbulb. Any light which the lampshade absorbs
> will also be converted to heat.

Except that there is (to a first approximation) no energy emitted as light. I posted about this in uk.d-i-y. A good CFL is something like 10% efficient; in other words, a 12W CFL emits about 1.2W as light and 11W as heat. The 60W light bulb will emit about the same amount of light, and 59W heat.

> Although totally useless, an extreme
> case would be a completely opaque, black lampshade which completely
> surrounded the lightbulb. Even with a 100% efficient lightbulb, it would
> get hot.

Yes, but we are so far (x10) from a 100% efficient lightbulb, that that is not really relevant.

[NT]

I don't know what legal requirement there is, but its certainly a
safety issue, so I'd expect it to be legislated.

There's a whole lot of confusion on the topic in other posts. For the
safety of the lampshade, the one thing that matters is the power
consumption of the lightbulb. Halogens of firestarting power are
common, and will continue to be sold indefinitely. GLS filament lamps
are also still in widespread use.

The CFL power rating of light fittings has nothing to do with the
fitting overheating, its a question of the CFL itself overheating.
Failure rather than safety.


NT

[Roland Perry]

In message
<82fe869a-15e8-4a87...@z4g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, at
22:40:02 on Tue, 28 Aug 2012, NT <meow...@care2.com> remarked:

>The CFL power rating of light fittings has nothing to do with the
>fitting overheating, its a question of the CFL itself overheating.
>Failure rather than safety.

I always thought CFLs were 'long life' as well as 'low energy', but I've
had two burn out just over a year after being installed. I've also
noticed that the bases can get very hot.
--
Roland Perry

[NT]

On Aug 29, 7:40 am, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> In message
> <82fe869a-15e8-4a87-9ffe-bd7769d71...@z4g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, at
> 22:40:02 on Tue, 28 Aug 2012, NT <meow2...@care2.com> remarked:

>
> >The CFL power rating of light fittings has nothing to do with the
> >fitting overheating, its a question of the CFL itself overheating.
> >Failure rather than safety.
>
> I always thought CFLs were 'long life' as well as 'low energy', but I've
> had two burn out just over a year after being installed. I've also
> noticed that the bases can get very hot.

They are. They also vary a lot more in individual lifetime than
filament lamps.


NT