Small garden office on side garden of a corner plot on cul-de-sac (not visible from road) - permitted development?

[Homeworker]

We live in a house situated on a corner plot, at the end of a cul-de-sac, which backs on to open fields.

The property is L-shaped (the house faces the road and an attached double garage comes off at 90 degrees) with gardens to side and rear.

I'd like to build a small garden office (less than 15 sq metres, 2.5m max height) in the garden at the side of the house (which is behind the garage).

Now, even though it would be behind the attached garage and not visible from any road, the garden office would still be in front of the principle elevation of the main house.

My question is would this require planning permission or be considered permitted development?

[steve robinson]

It depends on any other works previously done , will it fall under the
remit of a temporary structure , permitted development , are you in a
conservation zone and, often, the interpretation of the local
planning officers.

Best option for you is to call your local planning department.

If its a permenant structure you may still need building regulation
approval even if planning isn't required.

Log on to your local councils web portal, you will find the details
there.

[Martin Bonner]

Suggestions:
1. Make a sketch drawing, put it on the net somewhere, and post a link.
I can't visualize what's going on.

2. The rules on permitted development have changed recently. Most
council websites have a description of the new rules. They are usually
pretty clear.

3. Make an appointment to see your friendly (yes, really) local planning
officer, and ask him what he thinks. Most (but not all) councils will
allow pre-planning enquiries from private individuals for free.

4. Even if you do need planning permission, it's not that difficult
to obtain. Draw up plans, *take them round to your neighbours and say
"this is OK, isn't it?"*, submit plans, encourage neighbours to submit
comments recommending approval. (Consulting your neighbours first is
crucial - they will find it hard to say "no, that's terrible" to your
face, and having failed to do so, will find it hard to object to
the planning application.)

[Mark Goodge]

On Tue, 15 Jul 2014 04:48:19 -0700 (PDT), Homeworker put finger to keyboard
and typed:

It could be either. As a general rule, anything in front of the principle
elevation requires permission. But that's not always the case.

I'd suggest making an appointment with a planning officer at your local
council and asking them. This isn't a question of law, it's a question of
fact, and they're in a better position to ascertain the facts than we are.

Mark
--
Please take a short survey on salary perceptions: http://meyu.eu/am
My blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk

[Homeworker]

Thanks for everyone's comments. Below is a link showing a plan of where we'd like to put the garden office.

http://i58.tinypic.com/53pfrc.jpg

I spoke to planning before posting here and they explained I could pay a �50 fee for them to give their view on whether it's permitted development or not, or apply for planning permission which costs �170 but takes 6-8 weeks.

We're quite short on time for getting this completed so I wanted to get a steer on whether there's a chance it would be permitted development as this would save time on waiting for planning permission. I don't really want to pay the �50 advice fee though if it's automatically ruled out of being permitted development due to where the office is positioned (which I actually think is the case but I'm no expert!).

We've also spoken to our neighbours and they've said they're happy with our plans but to be honest I'll probably still look for confirmation from the council that it's permitted or get planning permission as I wouldn't want them changing their minds mid-way through the build!

Thanks again for all your replies and any other thoughts or comments appreciated.

[Percy Picacity]

If the principal elevation is the one with the garage on, you could say
that the line of the principal elevation is the front of the garage
parallel with the elevation. I would have thought there was a fair
chance this was a permitted development for this reason and because of
it's relation to the road, being screened from it. I'm not an expert
though!


--

Percy Picacity

[zaax]

I'll add a me too. Will you be having toilets; cavity wall and heating, if so they might think you are building a habitable building.
Also there is business rates to consider

[RobertL]

On Tuesday, July 15, 2014 12:48:19 PM UTC+1, Homeworker wrote:

>
> My question is would this require planning permission or be considered permitted development?

As someone else has remarked, you need to be sure about whether building control need to be involved. that can be much more onerous than the planning department. My guess is that they will not need to be involved because it has no sleeping accommodation in it.

[Peter Crosland]

Take a look here that should answer your questions


http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/

Don't fall into the trap of thinking you can get away with it "because
it is a temporary structure".

--
Peter Crosland

Reply address is valid

[steve robinson]

If your wincing at paying £50 for advice you will be in floods of tears
if it goes pear shaped.

Look at the £50 as an insurance policy.

[Tim Watts]

The best guide for England and Wales is here:

http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/

That mentions BR being needed or not - 15m2 is a key area and there is
also a factor of closeness to boundary and combustibility.

But for most "normal" garden erections (sheds etc), BR is not required.

[Tim Watts]

On 17/07/14 17:44, Peter Crosland wrote:

>
> http://www.planningportal.gov.uk/permission/
>
> Don't fall into the trap of thinking you can get away with it "because
> it is a temporary structure".
>

Sound advice - "Temporary structure" is a bit of a myth. Not sure where
the term came from, but nothing in modern PP or BR really cares - at
least in a domestic setting.

To the OP:

I would say, from the POV of a "man in the street":

1) Your plot does not fit any of the ones in Planning Portal very well,
regarding placement of new erections. Mostly because you are in an
enclosed corner. Therefore making a judgement as to whether it is
permitted development or not is going to be tricky.

2) If you want to be bombproof, pay your fee to the council's planning
dept to get a certificate of lawful development or an equally valid
document of them. Someone on the phone saying "it's OK" is not good enough.


3) Or - if you are happy taking a bit of a risk: Build it.

3a) Your neighbours are happy - so they are unlikely to complain to the
council. If no one complains, the council are fairly unlikely to
investigate.

3b) If you make it past 4 years, you are pretty safe (you are not doing
a "Fidler's Castle" by deliberately concealing it).

3c) Even if the council notice, retrospective PP is a possibility;

3d) I do not think your building is "obviously taking the piss" (not a
legal term!) so I doubt you'll have a significant risk.

3e) Your biggest risk is being made to move it or dismantle it. You are
not going to be fined or risk gaol time.


Just my 2p's worth - don't base your decision entirely on it! :)

[steve robinson]

Temporary Structures usally refer to sheds, chalets,greenhouses and
playhouses. Structures that are easily moveable and have the ability to
be re-erected elseware.

[Tim Watts]

On 17/07/14 20:42, steve robinson wrote:

> Temporary Structures usally refer to sheds, chalets,greenhouses and
> playhouses. Structures that are easily moveable and have the ability to
> be re-erected elseware.

Yes - but I've never seen any reference to "temporary structures" in
domestic guides to PP.

If you put a shed or greenhouse in your front garden, you'll probably
get a visit fairly sharpish from the council planning dept.

A small (4' tall) bike store is questionable, but people do and people
seem less bothered.

[polygonum]

On 17/07/2014 21:57, Tim Watts wrote:
> If you put a shed or greenhouse in your front garden, you'll probably
> get a visit fairly sharpish from the council planning dept.

We haven't - a modest summerhouse. So far (three years, IIRC) all it has
had are appreciative comments from people passing.

--
Rod

[steve robinson]

Domestic guides are very limited in the scope they cover, terminology
over the decades has changed as has the way domestic properties are
used.

How often do you see a privi or washouse at the bottom of the garden
(the original temporary structure) ferret pen or hen house even
pidgeon lofts common sites once.

[Peter Crosland]

This a planning loophole that has long been closed in most cases but
persists as an urban myth.

[Homeworker]

Thanks again everyone. Seeing as there maybe a chance it's permitted I think we're going to try the council advice route first. If it turns out not to be permitted, we'll then go for planning permission. I'll come back and let you know how it goes for others in this situation. Best regards.