Cheque Cashing shops
Mr X
was only vaid between the two parties on the cheque, not anyone else?
Do they act as a Bank or is there some loophole?
Paul
with the cheque - ie if stolen and presented to the cheque-shop, they
agree to refund the bank.
Lobster
Isn't there an extraordinarily high likelihood of that happening? I mean
how often do bona fide people actually avail themselves of such a
service these days?
Adam Funk
AIUI, these shops don't pay out the face value of the cheque --- they
take a cut to cover these risks as well as make a profit.
Lobster
That I understand - what I'm saying is, there can't me that many punters
who have a legit need for such a service (because they will lose a fair
proportion as commission) - just those who have no bank account, and for
some reason are unable to be paid money due to them by any other route.
In contrast, if I myself were a Dodgy Individual in possession of a
stolen cheque, then probably the first place I would try to get cash for
it would be one of these places.
R. Mark Clayton
"Lobster" <davidlobs...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:HWFso.26346$c9.2...@newsfe24.ams2...
You still have to produce ID etc.
The most common reasons are either urgency to get the cash immediately or
most often that the payee's account is overdrawn and if the cheque is paid
in their bank will keep the money to reduce the [unauthorised] overdraft and
not let the payee draw out any cash or pay bills with it.
Nightjar <"cpb"@
....
> That I understand - what I'm saying is, there can't me that many punters
> who have a legit need for such a service (because they will lose a fair
A lot of people don't consider that. They want things now, not later.
Sombody I know of has just bought a new cooker from choice, rather than
necessity. List price is about £300. Bought through the catalogue she
uses, the final cost will be nearer £900.
Colin Bignell
Just zis Guy, you know?
<"insertmysurnamehere>"@giganews.com> wrote:
>A lot of people don't consider that. They want things now, not later.
>Sombody I know of has just bought a new cooker from choice, rather than
>necessity. List price is about £300. Bought through the catalogue she
>uses, the final cost will be nearer £900.
It is a real concern to me that despite the extortionate prices paid
for credit by those who are poor credit risks, they are still in the
grip of the national consumer frenzy.
The last cooker we bought was ten years ago and it won't be replaced
until it can't be repaired any more. My mother's cooker is on its last
legs, the first lasted I think forty years, this one under twenty.
Nothing's built to last these days.
I wonder if the rules designed to ensure that people can afford
repayments, are applied in respect of catalogues?
Guy
--
http://www.chapmancentral.co.uk/
The usenet price promise: all opinions offered in newsgroups are guaranteed
to be worth the price paid.
Paul
I do, perhaps about £5,000 worth in the last three years...
Firstly, why does it work....
1) They are very cute at identifying who YOU are cashing the cheque -
photo taken, multiple ID's looked at, - they know who you are 100% or
fuck off
2) They ensure 100% that the cheque is due to you - want to see the
correspondence that went with it - the invoice that went to get it, the
remittance advice or benefit letter
3) They are VERY hot ont the cheque writers credentials - up to date
credit rating on issuer if company, phone them if necessary to validate
the cheque and the issuer, previuos form etc etc..
4) The casher signs for full liabity if it goes pear shaped
5) they get 10% for a cheque up to £300, 5% for £1000 - so they get good
money for the privilege...
Why does it work for the consumer...
1) As a business with a shit bank.... I get a £1000 cheque in today, it
can take 5 days to hit my bank account (postal banking), in that time I
could incur a fortune in charges if at my overdraft limit - for £50 I
can bank £950 cash into the account same day and save a few £32 a DD....
2) In principle, £1000 cashed thru one of these places 'never existed' -
you delete the invoice from your records - HMRC won't see it on your
bank statements, and you've made £950 tax free...your slight chance of
getting caught is if they investigate the co you got the cheque
from...minimal...
3) Place I go to is always full of people cashing benefit cheques - they
need food/beer/fags/drugs NOW and are happy to pay 10% to get them...
peterwn
>
> Isn't there an extraordinarily high likelihood of that happening? I mean
> how often do bona fide people actually avail themselves of such a
> service these days?
Presumably they change money and cash travellers cheques as well.
Paul
and do 'cash till payday' and international money transfers and a bit of
pawnbroking as well...
tim....
"Paul" <paul...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8hhmpi...@mid.individual.net...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
I assume by "casher" you mean employee. I doubt that that would stand up in
an ET if challenged
tim
Roland Perry
2010, tim.... <tims_n...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked
>4) The casher signs for full liabity if it goes pear shaped
>
>-------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>I assume by "casher" you mean employee. I doubt that that would stand up in
>an ET if challenged
The customer, surely?
--
Roland Perry
Paul
Yes, I meant 'the person cashing the cheque' not 'casher' a word I made
up ;-)
Mr X
Paul
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=banking+crossed+cheque+into+different+account
“After section 81 of the Bills of Exchange Act 1882 there shall be
inserted the following section—81A—(l) Where a cheque is crossed and
bears across its lace the words "account payee" or "a/c payee", either
with or without the word "only", the cheque shall not be transferable,
but shall only be valid as between the parties thereto."
Up until 1992, there was no reason why a person could not hand over a
cheque, made payable to themselves, to someone else for them to pay into
their own bank account. You simply had to write the name of the person
on the back of the cheque and that was it – job done.
However, as you can see from the quote above, the law has since been
changed and now all cheques have to be crossed. You will notice cheques
now have crossing lines across them and the account payee printed across
the front of the cheque. This move was done as a way to decrease
instances of fraud.
So, this makes it a risk on the bank’s behalf to accept a crossed cheque
into the bank account of someone other than the name printed on the
front and as a general rule of thumb, they just do not accept them.
However, this doesn’t mean that there isn’t a way. Over the last decade
a number of agencies have set up shop on the high street that say they
will exchange a cheque for cash. Originally this was marketed as a way
of people getting instant cash from pay-day cheques without having the
wait for the standard three days.
Of course, these agencies accept the risk that the original cheque could
be fraudulent and as a way of counter acting this they tend to charge a
fee, typically a percentage of the cheque’s value.
If you do want to use one of these agencies as an alternative, then you
will no doubt be required to provide some form of identification and
also, you should find one that is registered with the British Cheque
Cashers Association (BCCA).
Stuart A. Bronstein
> However, this doesn't mean that there isn't a way. Over the last
> decade a number of agencies have set up shop on the high street
> that say they will exchange a cheque for cash. Originally this
> was marketed as a way of people getting instant cash from
> pay-day cheques without having the wait for the standard three
> days.
>
> Of course, these agencies accept the risk that the original
> cheque could be fraudulent and as a way of counter acting this
> they tend to charge a fee, typically a percentage of the
> cheque's value.
>
> If you do want to use one of these agencies as an alternative,
> then you will no doubt be required to provide some form of
> identification and also, you should find one that is registered
> with the British Cheque Cashers Association (BCCA).
At one point I represented a cheque cashing company here in the US.
What they did was to only cash cheques for people who had given
them financial and other personal information, who they knew had
work, etc. They would generally also only accept payroll cheques
or similar institutional cheques that would be unlikely to have a
problem with. So their default rate was very low.
Of course in the US most cheques are negotiable, so (while banks
generally don't like to accept them and often refuse to) it is
permissible to negotiate a check to some private party, who will
then be able to deposit it into his own account, if his bank will
allow.
Mr X
http://lmgtfy.com/?q=banking+crossed+cheque+into+different+account
OK, thanks.
However the quote includes "the cheque shall not be transferable,
but shall only be valid as between the parties thereto". Doesn't that make
the cheque invalid and so unable to be used?
Paul
been valid for the two parties involved - the issuer and the receiver
and the cashconverter has merely facilitated the transaction...
You could argue that because I use postal banking, the crossed cheque
has passed through Royal Mails hands...
I think the crux of the crossed cheque bit is to stop the cheque
becoming a 'bank note' - in that I might (used to have been able to) get
a cheque for £50 and owe you £50 so sign it over to you, you then sign
it over to someone you owe £50 and it goes around all day...then a break
in the chain claims fraud and it goes pear shaped for all...
The new law simply means it can only be used to get money from A to B -
if it involves C (which could be bank or cash convertor) its at your own
risk
nathan...@live.co.uk
Janitor of Lunacy
<nathan...@live.co.uk> wrote in message
news:72f7984a-4aea-4e0d...@googlegroups.com...
of the drawee. Whether Cash Converters & similar outlets respect this is
moot, but I think unlikely, after all it's their risk if the bank refuses to
honour the cheque, and I think it quite likely that they would.
Jon Ribbens
once in possession of a cheque which is not payable to them, manage to
turn it into money.
Phi
local pub.
Jon Ribbens
>> Clearly there must be a mechanism by which Cash Converters themselves,
>> once in possession of a cheque which is not payable to them, manage to
>> turn it into money.
>
> maning the new payee, or "in blank", rendering it a bearer cheque.
Yes but Cash Converters will cash crossed "a/c payee only" cheques.
http://www.cashconverters.co.uk/we-loan/cheque-cashing/
Roland Perry
Apr 2014, August West <aug...@kororaa.com> remarked:
>Uncrossed cheques can be negotiated by way of indorsement on the back,
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>>>Uncrossed cheques can be negotiated by way of indorsement on the back,
>>
>> When did you last see an uncrossed cheque? Must be 30+ years for me.
>
>signed a cheque).
I signed one about three weeks ago for property management charges, the
only way I think they accept the money. Although perhaps they might take
cash under protest, I haven't asked.
Prior to that, I have cheques to DVLA for personalised numberplate
transfers (again, the only way they accept payment for that transaction)
and several to local tradesmen like plumbers doing work on my house.
Local dog groomers also seem to feature highly amongst the "much prefer
to be paid by cheque" brigade, although the vet does have a C&P credit
card machine now (and much higher typical fees per visit!)
I'm sure Mark Twain could have something pithy to say about rumours
regarding the death of the chequebook.
--
Roland Perry
Judith
>My friend has given me a cheque but it is in his name and has ac/payee on the front is there a chance he could still put his signature on the back with my name and say pay to him ? So that I can cash the cheque at cashconverters or any other local shop?
Bring your third-party a/c payee cheque(s) to us, along with your
identification.
We’ll verify the cheque, check your ID, then tell you how much cash you’ll
receive against the cheque.
You’ll also be asked to provide personal details for our database, so that
next time you need a cheque cashed it will take a fraction of the time, since
you’ll only have to provide one proof of ID. We also require that you have your
photograph stored in our database.
Finally you sign a declaration on the back of the cheque, and your cash
will be presented to you immediately.
Tim Jackson
> On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 07:35:34 -0700 (PDT), nathan...@live.co.uk wrote:
>
> >My friend has given me a cheque but it is in his name and has ac/payee on the front is there a chance he could still put his signature on the back with my name and say pay to him ? So that I can cash the cheque at cashconverters or any other local shop?
>
>
> From a cheque cashing service:
>
> Bring your third-party a/c payee cheque(s) to us, along with your
> identification.
> We’ll verify the cheque, check your ID, then tell you how much cash you’ll
> receive against the cheque.
I think this is where a person A writes a cheque to person B, crossing
it 'a/c payee'. Then person B asks Cash Converters (or whoever) to cash
it. Cash Converters ask for ID to check it really is person B that they
are dealing with.
In this situation, person A is a third party since it is not just a
cheque from person B to Cash Converters (the first and second parties).
The OP's situation is one step further removed. Person A writes a
cheque to person B. Then person B endorses it to the OP, who asks Cash
Converters to cash it. I think this falls apart when Cash Converters
ask the OP for his ID, and it is apparent that he is not person B.
--
Tim Jackson
ne...@timjackson.invalid
(Change '.invalid' to '.plus.com' to reply direct)
Max Demian
news:QVmtn8$lRDU...@perry.co.uk...
crossing lines.
Maybe it depends on what's printed between the lines. My current cheque
forms have 'Account Payee' but there's plenty of space to write something
else in and sign it.
--
Max Demian
Judith
wrote:
Tim Watts
signing through the crossings that apparently used to be the done way.
Had a bugger of an argument with the bank manager to accept it - he
eventually did, grudgingly. It was only made out for <£50
I'm honestly not sure if it was a case that the process was:
1) No longer "legal" (whether that means banking regulations or in law);
2) The manager had never seen it done and just threw a fit.
R. Mark Clayton
and then pay out cash on it. They then clear the cheque as bankers.
Max Demian
news:bNudnYl5-akYnszO...@bt.com...
--
Max Demian
tim.....
"August West" <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote in message
news:871twv3...@news2.kororaa.com...
> law relating to them is still there, and still taught on commercial law
> courses.
But back in tine real work
Cash converters do, in fact, accept such cheques so there must be some
mechanism for turning them into funds.
Even at the risk of some not getting paid, the majority must or they
wouldn't do it
tim
tim.....
"Tim Jackson" <ne...@timjackson.invalid> wrote in message
news:MPG.2dba6db5d...@text.usenet.plus.net...
>>
>> On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 07:35:34 -0700 (PDT), nathan...@live.co.uk wrote:
>>
>> >My friend has given me a cheque but it is in his name and has ac/payee
>> >on the front is there a chance he could still put his signature on the
>> >back with my name and say pay to him ? So that I can cash the cheque at
>> >cashconverters or any other local shop?
>>
>>
>> From a cheque cashing service:
>>
>> Bring your third-party a/c payee cheque(s) to us, along with your
>> identification.
>> youā?Tll
>
> However, I don't think this is quite the situation the OP has in mind.
>
> I think this is where a person A writes a cheque to person B, crossing
> it 'a/c payee'. Then person B asks Cash Converters (or whoever) to cash
> it. Cash Converters ask for ID to check it really is person B that they
> are dealing with.
But at the end of the transaction CC are in no different position.
They have a cheque, crossed, a/c payee which they want to pay into *their*
account which is not the account the cheque is paid to.
So how do they do it?
They reason that the verify the individual's ID is to make sure that the
cheque is not stolen. It doesn't help them with the process of turning the
cheque into money into their account (if it isn't)
tim
Tim Jackson
>
> "R. Mark Clayton" <nospam...@btinternet.com> wrote ...
> > I think what they do is create a temporary account in the name of the
> > payee and then pay out cash on it.
of good accounting practice, perhaps)?
'Account payee' just means the cheque is not transferable (Cheques Act
1992) so it has to be paid to the intended payee. Despite the use of
the word 'account', does that mean it must go into an actual bank
account of the intended payee?
Or does it just mean that they have to account to the correct payee?
(Which is the reason they check his or her ID - see Judith's quote.)
If I owe you £5 and I pay you in cash, then I have accounted to you for
the debt, even though no bank account is involved.
> > They then clear the cheque as bankers.
>
> That sounds highly illegal.
A more interesting question might be how they are acting as bankers, if
that is the case. Presumably there are some regulatory requirements?
Tim Jackson
> But at the end of the transaction CC are in no different position.
>
> They have a cheque, crossed, a/c payee which they want to pay into *their*
> account which is not the account the cheque is paid to.
>
> So how do they do it?
>
> They reason that the verify the individual's ID is to make sure that the
> cheque is not stolen. It doesn't help them with the process of turning the
> cheque into money into their account (if it isn't)
would be in the same position as the payee's bank clearing the cheque,
if the payee had paid it into his/her own bank account.
I don't know whether this is actually the situation.
Mark Goodge
typed:
>On Sat, 19 Apr 2014 11:25:20 +0100, tim..... wrote...
>
>> But at the end of the transaction CC are in no different position.
>>
>> They have a cheque, crossed, a/c payee which they want to pay into *their*
>> account which is not the account the cheque is paid to.
>>
>> So how do they do it?
>>
>> They reason that the verify the individual's ID is to make sure that the
>> cheque is not stolen. It doesn't help them with the process of turning the
>> cheque into money into their account (if it isn't)
>
>See Mark Clayton's suggestion that they are acting as bankers. So they
>would be in the same position as the payee's bank clearing the cheque,
>if the payee had paid it into his/her own bank account.
>
>I don't know whether this is actually the situation.
onky be payed into the named account isn't part of legislation, it's merely
a rule set by the banks themselves. And they can, and will, disregard it
under certain circumstances. For example, when I was a child, I won first
prize in a balloon releasing competition, and my prize came in the form of
a cheque. Given that I had no bank account at the time, my father took me
to the bank, where, on production of suitable ID, the bank cashed the
cheque for me.
In the case of organisations such as Cash Converters, the banks will allow
them to pay in cheques that they have cashed for third parties provided
that they adhere strictly to guidelines set by the banks regarding ID
verification and agree to accept the risk of cashing a cheque which may
bounce or turn out to be fraudulent. And, to facilitate that, the terms and
conditions that you have to sign when cashing a cheque at CC or similar
places includes the grant of a limited power of attorney in matters related
specifically to that cheque.
Mark
--
Please take a short survey on salary perceptions: http://meyu.eu/am
My blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Mark Goodge
typed:
>
>The entity calling itself Mark Goodge wrote:
>>
>> It's slightly more prosaic than that. The stipulation crossed cheques
>> can onky be payed into the named account isn't part of legislation,
>> it's merely a rule set by the banks themselves.
>
>
>The Cheques Act 1992, s.1(1) (amending Bills of Exchange Act 1882):
>
>"Where a cheque is crossed and bears across its face the words “account
> payee�€? or “a/c payee�€?, either with or without the word “only�€?, the
> cheque shall not be transferable, but shall only be valid as between
> the parties thereto."
>
>So, while there is no requiremet the chsue be banked, there is inherent
>risk in cashing an indorsed cheque, or accepting an indorsed cheque, as
>it can be dishooured.
Yes, and that's precisely why Cash Converters et al charge a hefty fee for
cashing a cheque, as they have to bear the risk of it not being honoured.
Stuart A. Bronstein
> "August West" <aug...@kororaa.com> wrote
>>> August West <aug...@kororaa.com> remarked:
>>>
>>>>Uncrossed cheques can be negotiated by way of indorsement on
>>>>the back,
>>>
>>> When did you last see an uncrossed cheque? Must be 30+ years
>>> for me.
>>
>> I actually can't remember (I'm even struggling to remember whn
>> I last signed a cheque). Same goes for a negotiable bill of
>> exchange. But the law relating to them is still there, and
>> still taught on commercial law courses.
>
> But back in tine real work
>
> Cash converters do, in fact, accept such cheques so there must
> be some mechanism for turning them into funds.
>
> Even at the risk of some not getting paid, the majority must or
> they wouldn't do it
still be negotiated. But the person who takes the instrument is
not a holder in due course and, as a result, is subject to any
defence that the maker could have claimed against the original
holder (e.g. value never received in exchange).
--
Stu
http://DownToEarthLawyer.com
Joseph McDougall
>
>
> > I think what they do is create a temporary account in the name of the
>
> > payee and then pay out cash on it. They then clear the cheque as bankers.
>
>
>
> That sounds highly illegal.
It sounds as though they're doing the "know your customer" stuff?
Max Demian
news:2fb5cb60-35d3-48af...@googlegroups.com...
it, I'd be done for fraud or theft.
--
Max Demian
Tim Watts
Tim Jackson
bankers. I'm not sure that's what happens in the present circumstances,
but bankers open accounts for customers all the time. It's not being
suggested that the cheque cashing company would open an account with
A.N. Other Bank PLC, in the customer's name. Just that the customer
would have a temporary account with the cheque cashing service.
Zapp Brannigan
"Max Demian" <max_d...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:brhjt6...@mid.individual.net...
Peter Crosland
posters to what a cheque actually is, and how this affects the way it is
dealt with. Regrettably a lot of the answers given have not been based
on fact largely because of a lack of knowledge. It is also worth
mentioning that the law changed significantly when the newer legislation
came into force. Therefore what might have happened historically is
often irrelevant.
A cheque is technically a bill of exchange drawn on a banker. It
instructs the bank to pay a sum of money to the payee. The crossing a/c
payee instructs the bank it is drawn on only to pay it if the bank is
satisfied it the funds are going where instructed. The bank it is drawn
on can, and theoretically should, refuse to pay it if is not satisfied
that the funds have been credited to the account of the payee.
There is, as far as I can see, nothing unusual about the way the cheque
is handled by the cheque cashing shops. The payee simply endorses it by
signing on the back and the cheque cashing shop pays it into their bank
account. The cheque then passes through the bank clearing system in the
normal way. No opening of a bank account takes place nor is necessary.
In any case cheque cashing shops are not authorized to conduct banking.
The cheque cashing shop obviously receives certain assurances from the
payee and may well have an agreement with the clearing banks to, as far
as possible, ensure that valid cheques will not be rejected. All this
does is move the responsibility from their bank to the cheques cashing shop.
The cheque cashing shop, for a fee, accepts the risk that the cheque
may, for whatever reason, bounce. They calculate their fee so that they
can effectively self insure against risk that a cheque will bounce. In
theory, the drawer of the cheque could force the bank to reimburse them
for a cheque that had passed through a cheque cashing shop. Unless there
was evidence of fraud I can't see this happening except on very rare
occasions.
--
Peter Crosland
Reply address is valid
Mark Goodge
and typed:
>There is, as far as I can see, nothing unusual about the way the cheque
>is handled by the cheque cashing shops. The payee simply endorses it by
>signing on the back and the cheque cashing shop pays it into their bank
>account. The cheque then passes through the bank clearing system in the
>normal way. No opening of a bank account takes place nor is necessary.
>In any case cheque cashing shops are not authorized to conduct banking.
>The cheque cashing shop obviously receives certain assurances from the
>payee and may well have an agreement with the clearing banks to, as far
>as possible, ensure that valid cheques will not be rejected. All this
>does is move the responsibility from their bank to the cheques cashing shop.
the cashing shops includes a) a requirement for the cashing shop to make
the same checks on identity that the banks themselves would make, and b) an
acceptance that the cashing shop will bear the risk of any cheque which
bounces for any reason.
>The cheque cashing shop, for a fee, accepts the risk that the cheque
>may, for whatever reason, bounce. They calculate their fee so that they
>can effectively self insure against risk that a cheque will bounce. In
>theory, the drawer of the cheque could force the bank to reimburse them
>for a cheque that had passed through a cheque cashing shop. Unless there
>was evidence of fraud I can't see this happening except on very rare
>occasions.
There's nothing esoteric about the way that cheque cashing shops work. It's
just the application of normal commercial agreements.