Blocked Pavements
Colin
property at the boundary with the footpath. Most people do this - some of course put them on the
footpath. However, the bin men will nearly always just leave the bins on the pavement - more often
than not totally blocking the pavement such that people must walk in the road to pass them. I live
near a school - a busy road - where mothers with prams are forced on to the road - or move the bins
themselves
The council acknowledge that this is a problem - but say there is nothing they can do other than
monitor the situation and remind crews that they should not do this. If someone phones up to
complain - they say there is nothing that they can do regarding the particular blockage - and they
will not send anyone out to rectify the problem.
If a member of their staff has caused an obstruction - and it is drawn to the council's attention
(Help Desk) - do they not have an obligation to rectify their illegal action?
If I was to leave an A-board advertising my trade on the pavement - then they would prosecute me.
I really would like to push this as far as I can - any suggestions?
Roger
Have you discussed it with your local ward councillor/s?
steve robinson
The staff have not caused the obstruction the householder has by
leaving the bin on the footpath.
The refuse staff are acting correctly by not moving the bin as to do
so could leave the refuse company liable once the empty bin is placed
back on the pavement if it were to cause an accident .
They cant put the bin into a garden or driveway as its likely they
wont know where its come from .
Mark Goodge
You're more likely to get a result by talking to your local councillor and
the media. Write letters to the local paper, and encourage other people to
do the same. The aim is to shame the council in to taking action.
Mark
--
Blog: http://mark.goodge.co.uk
Stuff: http://www.good-stuff.co.uk
Graham Murray
> The staff have not caused the obstruction the householder has by
> leaving the bin on the footpath.
No, the householders leave the bins at the edge of their properties, not
on the footpath. It is the refuse collectors who, after emptying the bins,
leave them on the footpath rather than returning them to the
householders' properties where they were left for collection.
steve robinson
In that case you have a fair complaint
Colin
>Colin wrote:
>
>> On the estate where I live people have to put their refuse bins
>> out - to be positioned on the property at the boundary with the
>> footpath. Most people do this - some of course put them on the
>> footpath. However, the bin men will nearly always just leave the
>> bins on the pavement - more often than not totally blocking the
>> pavement such that people must walk in the road to pass them. I
>> live near a school - a busy road - where mothers with prams are
>> forced on to the road - or move the bins themselves The council
>> acknowledge that this is a problem - but say there is nothing they
>> can do other than monitor the situation and remind crews that they
>> should not do this. If someone phones up to complain - they say
>> there is nothing that they can do regarding the particular blockage
>> - and they will not send anyone out to rectify the problem.
>>
>> If a member of their staff has caused an obstruction - and it is
>> drawn to the council's attention (Help Desk) - do they not have an
>> obligation to rectify their illegal action?
>>
>> If I was to leave an A-board advertising my trade on the pavement -
>> then they would prosecute me.
>>
>> I really would like to push this as far as I can - any suggestions?
>
>The staff have not caused the obstruction the householder has by
>leaving the bin on the footpath.
As I have said - most people put their bins out on their own property - the bin men do not return
them - they leave them on the pavement.
It is the bin men who are causing the obstructions.
Yellow
st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk says...
No, that's not right.
I have the same issue as the OP and, like the OP, we leave our bins on
our land, on the edge next to the pavement.
The binmen take the bins and empty them and then leave the bins in the
middle of the pavement.
I also live on a school run road so completely empathise with the OP but
what can be done to cure this behaviour, I have no idea.
Colin
Thanks for the responses and suggestions.
But - is there no legal remedy I and others have?
There seems to be one law for the council (re the A-boards) and another for others.
Any legal remedies at all please ?
Manticore
"Colin" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
news:omkro65aegp94a7og...@4ax.com...
> On the estate where I live people have to put their refuse bins out - to
> be positioned on the
> property at the boundary with the footpath. Most people do this - some of
> course put them on the
> footpath. However, the bin men will nearly always just leave the bins on
> the pavement - more often
> than not totally blocking the pavement such that people must walk in the
> road to pass them. I live
> near a school - a busy road - where mothers with prams are forced on to
> the road - or move the bins
> themselves
Now there's an idea. I'm assuming these are wheelie bins? So, is it really
beyond a mother to wheel an empty bin a few inches/feet to the side of the
footpath rather than pushing their pram into the road? I know that by the
same token it should not be beyond the binmen either, but they seem to be
incapable of such things.
My grandad was a binman in the days of proper bins, full of ash from the
coal fires. He used to go up the lobby, put the bin on his back, walk to
wherever the bin wagon was (could be a hundred yards away or more) and then
bring it back and put the lid back on. He's no doubt spinning in his grave
at the antics of modern binmen who won't wheel a bin more than a few feet,
but that does seem to be the way of 21st century binmen and you'll never
change them.
Mark Goodge
>
>
>Thanks for the responses and suggestions.
>
>But - is there no legal remedy I and others have?
>
>There seems to be one law for the council (re the A-boards) and another for others.
No; it's the same law ("do not obstruct the pavement"), it's just the
council being selective about where it enforces the law.
>Any legal remedies at all please ?
Not really, no, since lack of willingness by the council to enforce the law
is a political rather than a legal problem. Your only other option is a
private prosecution, but that would be very difficult to make stick.
Mark Goodge
typed:
>
>"Colin" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
>news:omkro65aegp94a7og...@4ax.com...
>> On the estate where I live people have to put their refuse bins out - to
>> be positioned on the
>> property at the boundary with the footpath. Most people do this - some of
>> course put them on the
>> footpath. However, the bin men will nearly always just leave the bins on
>> the pavement - more often
>> than not totally blocking the pavement such that people must walk in the
>> road to pass them. I live
>> near a school - a busy road - where mothers with prams are forced on to
>> the road - or move the bins
>> themselves
>
>Now there's an idea. I'm assuming these are wheelie bins? So, is it really
>beyond a mother to wheel an empty bin a few inches/feet to the side of the
>footpath rather than pushing their pram into the road?
I'm sure they could, but why should they?
>I know that by the
>same token it should not be beyond the binmen either, but they seem to be
>incapable of such things.
>
>My grandad was a binman in the days of proper bins, full of ash from the
>coal fires. He used to go up the lobby, put the bin on his back, walk to
>wherever the bin wagon was (could be a hundred yards away or more) and then
>bring it back and put the lid back on. He's no doubt spinning in his grave
>at the antics of modern binmen who won't wheel a bin more than a few feet,
>but that does seem to be the way of 21st century binmen and you'll never
>change them.
The binmen who service my street are capable of putting the bins back where
they found them. For that matter, they'll even collect a bin from further
back on the premises if the householder has forgotten to put it out
(assuming, of course, that they can see it from the road and it's still
easily accessible). So it's not true to say that all binmen are equally
lazy; it seems to be a local issue and a lot of that, I'm sure, is down to
the management which either encourages customer-friendliness or a sloppy,
make-the-job-as-simple-as-possible, attitude. If I, too, was in the OP's
situation then I, too, would be annoyed, and I think he has every right to
complain. But I think he may be banging his head against a brick wall if
the local authority simply isn't responsive to its residents' concerns.
Geoff Berrow
wrote:
>My grandad was a binman in the days of proper bins, full of ash from the
>coal fires. He used to go up the lobby, put the bin on his back, walk to
>wherever the bin wagon was (could be a hundred yards away or more) and then
>bring it back and put the lid back on. He's no doubt spinning in his grave
>at the antics of modern binmen who won't wheel a bin more than a few feet,
>but that does seem to be the way of 21st century binmen and you'll never
>change them.
Of course, there would have been less rubbish as a lot would have been
burnt on the open fire.
--
Geoff Berrow (Put thecat out to email)
It's only Usenet, no one dies.
My opinions, not the committee's, mine.
Simple RFDs www.4theweb.co.uk/rfdmaker
Ste
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 14:25:08 +0100, "Manticore" <n...@valid.com>
> wrote:
>
> >My grandad was a binman in the days of proper bins, full of ash from the
> >coal fires. He used to go up the lobby, put the bin on his back, walk to
> >wherever the bin wagon was (could be a hundred yards away or more) and then
> >bring it back and put the lid back on. He's no doubt spinning in his grave
> >at the antics of modern binmen who won't wheel a bin more than a few feet,
> >but that does seem to be the way of 21st century binmen and you'll never
> >change them.
>
> Of course, there would have been less rubbish as a lot would have been
> burnt on the open fire.
The real issue is simply that there are fewer bin men. I live in a
house that was built with a "bin hole", and years ago the bin men used
to come down the garden path to collect the black bags. Now, a wheelie
bin is provided, and the householder has the responsibility of putting
it on the road for collection and taking it back in afterwards, as
well as providing a suitable place for storing it. They've simply
taken the labour that the bin men used to perform, and offloaded it on
to householders, and I can virtually guarantee that it was not binmen
who made that decision.
Manticore
"Geoff Berrow" <blth...@ckdog.co.uk> wrote in message
news:cthuo65eihdsu61mg...@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 27 Mar 2011 14:25:08 +0100, "Manticore" <no...@valid.com>
> wrote:
>
>>My grandad was a binman in the days of proper bins, full of ash from the
>>coal fires. He used to go up the lobby, put the bin on his back, walk to
>>wherever the bin wagon was (could be a hundred yards away or more) and
>>then
>>bring it back and put the lid back on. He's no doubt spinning in his grave
>>at the antics of modern binmen who won't wheel a bin more than a few feet,
>>but that does seem to be the way of 21st century binmen and you'll never
>>change them.
>
>
> Of course, there would have been less rubbish as a lot would have been
> burnt on the open fire.
True - less rubbish but more weight. Ever tried lifting an old-fashioned bin
full of a week's worth of ashes and other stuff? Very heavy.
It's that more than anything that narks me about modern-day binmen. The darn
things are on wheels for goodness sake but they won't wheel them anywhere.
Cars parked either side of road but gaps big enough for the bin wagon to get
into and clear the road, but no, they won't do that. If they are emptying
the bin from No.36, the wagon just HAS to be outside No.36 with queues of
traffic behind it. Because it would have meant that the wagon was outside
No.42 and the bin would have had to be wheeled from No.36, they refuse to
wheel it there. AARRGGHH!!!
steve robinson
Blame health and safety legislation
steve robinson
It might also depend on the contract terms the waste company has with
the LA if its privatly run
Yellow
st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk says...
H&S *legislation* is rarely the true cause of H&S rules.
Mark Goodge
and typed:
>Mark Goodge wrote:
>>
>> The binmen who service my street are capable of putting the bins
>> back where they found them. For that matter, they'll even collect a
>> bin from further back on the premises if the householder has
>> forgotten to put it out (assuming, of course, that they can see it
>> from the road and it's still easily accessible). So it's not true
>> to say that all binmen are equally lazy; it seems to be a local
>> issue and a lot of that, I'm sure, is down to the management which
>> either encourages customer-friendliness or a sloppy,
>> make-the-job-as-simple-as-possible, attitude. If I, too, was in the
>> OP's situation then I, too, would be annoyed, and I think he has
>> every right to complain. But I think he may be banging his head
>> against a brick wall if the local authority simply isn't responsive
>> to its residents' concerns.
>
>It might also depend on the contract terms the waste company has with
>the LA if its privatly run
Up to a point, yes, but the contract doesn't have to stipulate not breaking
the law - that much is simply a given. And the binmen are breaking the law
if, without reasonable excuse, they leave the bins on the pavement rather
than returning them to the edge of the property from where they collected
them.
Manticore
"steve robinson" <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote in message
news:xn0hc4dci...@news.eternal-september.org...
No, I'm not having that. H&S probably resulted in the move from old heavy
manually-lifted bins to wheeled bins and quite right too. But I refuse to
believe that H&S legislation is responsible for preventing the wheeling of a
wheeled bin two or three doors down to the wagon outside a different house;
that's just ludicrous.
Saxman
> I really would like to push this as far as I can - any suggestions?
Why not suggest to your council to revert to bin bags? Problem gone.
Simon Finnigan
> "Colin" <m...@privacy.net> wrote in message
> news:omkro65aegp94a7og...@4ax.com...
>> On the estate where I live people have to put their refuse bins out - to
>> be positioned on the
>> property at the boundary with the footpath. Most people do this - some of
>> course put them on the
>> footpath. However, the bin men will nearly always just leave the bins on
>> the pavement - more often
>> than not totally blocking the pavement such that people must walk in the
>> road to pass them. I live
>> near a school - a busy road - where mothers with prams are forced on to
>> the road - or move the bins
>> themselves
>
> Now there's an idea. I'm assuming these are wheelie bins? So, is it really
> beyond a mother to wheel an empty bin a few inches/feet to the side of the
> footpath rather than pushing their pram into the road? I know that by the
> same token it should not be beyond the binmen either, but they seem to be
> incapable of such things.
If you where pushing a pram, and quite possibly holding another child's
hand to keep them safe, would you think it was reasonable to have to move a
series of bins to make the pavement safe to walk along? It's not a case of
moving a single bin, nor are the people moving them likely to be alone with
no impediments to moving the bin.
The bin men are apparently breaking the law by not doing this, as well as
making life difficult for a lot of other people. Why should other people be
put out/put themselves or their children in a dangerous situation just
because the bin men can't be bothered doing their job properly?
Manticore
"Simon Finnigan" <simonf...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1441660728322951500.44603...@news.individual.net...
*********************************
Oh, I agree entirely and I'm not defending the binmen in any shape or form -
I'm just saying that it would seem preferable for a mother to move an empty
bin on wheels to pushing a pram into the road. As far as I'm concerned,
binmen who refuse to wheel the darn things anywhere or refuse to put them
back where they came from should be hung, drawn and quartered.
It's simply a case of the unstoppable force coming against an immovable
object. The OP can do whatever he likes but he'll never get the binmen to do
the job right.
steve robinson
If its a contractual agreement between a private company and the LA
and it stipulates the bins to be left on the pavement the bin men are
not breaking the law
Infact in many areas the refuse has to be placed on the footpath
either in bin bags or wheely bins or its not collected.
We have that system where i live
steve robinson
Wheely bins can still be very heavy , many are twice the size of the
old ash cans or plastic bins , if your on a 2 weekly collection they
are going to be rammed
steve robinson
Got bin bags in brum , bloody nuisance they split , the cats and rats
tear them open
Roland Perry
on Mon, 28 Mar 2011, steve robinson <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk>
remarked:
>If its a contractual agreement between a private company and the LA
>and it stipulates the bins to be left on the pavement the bin men are
>not breaking the law
If the contract said they could steal your car, would that activity no
longer be breaking the law?
>Infact in many areas the refuse has to be placed on the footpath
>either in bin bags or wheely bins or its not collected.
Every one I've seen says that the bins have to be placed at the edge of
the property[1].
Although there are many cases where that's physically impossible (for
example where you don't have a front garden, or the front garden
boundary is all wall and gate). So people do tend to put them out on the
pavement.
[1] "at the edge of your property at the nearest point to the footpath
or highway" - my district.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
>> preventing the wheeling of a wheeled bin two or three doors down to
>> the wagon outside a different house; that's just ludicrous.
>
>Wheely bins can still be very heavy , many are twice the size of the
>old ash cans or plastic bins , if your on a 2 weekly collection they
>are going to be rammed
I don't think most people are worried about whether they have to stop
the refuse van at every property to pick up, the problem is whether they
*return* the bin to the correct place.
It's actually quite common for them to park the van and do six or eight
bins from that one location, but unfortunately some also tend to leave
the six or eight bins on the pavement next to where the van stopped,
rather than returning them to the properties they came from.
--
Roland Perry
steve robinson
> In message <xn0hc51ed...@news.eternal-september.org>, at
> 00:55:02 on Mon, 28 Mar 2011, steve robinson
> <st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> remarked:
> > If its a contractual agreement between a private company and the
> > LA and it stipulates the bins to be left on the pavement the bin
> > men are not breaking the law
>
> If the contract said they could steal your car, would that activity
> no longer be breaking the law?
The LA do have the right to 'steal' cars infact they can 'steal' many
things , its just not labelled as such . In all but name they can
within a very short time permently deprive you of the vehicle , your
home , land to name a few.
The LA are under a legal obligation to take household waste away
The bin men are employees , if they are told to leave the bins on the
pathway they will
>
> > Infact in many areas the refuse has to be placed on the footpath
> > either in bin bags or wheely bins or its not collected.
>
> Every one I've seen says that the bins have to be placed at the
> edge of the property[1].
>
> Although there are many cases where that's physically impossible
> (for example where you don't have a front garden, or the front
> garden boundary is all wall and gate). So people do tend to put
> them out on the pavement.
>
> [1] "at the edge of your property at the nearest point to the
> footpath or highway" - my district.
Birmingham insists the bags are placed on the pavement (even on the
main arterial roads )
Rugby they have to place the bins kerbside raised lids (even a few
inches) results in bins being left
Passing through Coventry recently all the full bins again were
kerbside
The council are damned if they do and damned if they dont .
If the bin men are instructed to place the bins back n the gardens
you have residents complaining that the cars have been scratched
flowers squahed mess left everywhere got the wrong bin back
Owain
> It's actually quite common for them to park the van and do six or eight
> bins from that one location, but unfortunately some also tend to leave
> the six or eight bins on the pavement next to where the van stopped,
> rather than returning them to the properties they came from.
We are supposed to leave our bins at the edge of the pavement, facing
the road. The bin lorry has a side lift arm that picks the bin up,
empties it, and puts it back. Then the lorry moves on.
I.e. there are no binmen handling the bins at all.
Owain
Judith
and if it is a contractual arrangement and the bins are to be returned to the point they were
collect from - then that is a different matter - and the one I am concerned about.
Are you saying that the LA can actually give people authority to cause obstruction?
m...@privacy.net
Saxman <john.h.w...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> > I really would like to push this as far as I can - any suggestions?
>
> Why not suggest to your council to revert to bin bags? Problem gone.
It was worse round here with bin bags, a pile of half a dozen blocking the
footway at the end of most drives between here and the school. They took up
more space than wheelybins.
--
BD
Change lycos to yahoo to reply
steve robinson
Yes they can but common sense has to apply and you woudnt normally
expect the LA to allow the bin men to do so
I would get the local MP involved if it is a problem and the LA still
playing silly buggers
When we had a problem with pavement parkers (double parking) they
were very slow to act until our local MP got involved unfortunatly he
has retired now .
At a resients meeting when the local police inspector failed to turn
up and sent a consable after he had requested his presence all hell
broke loose needless to say 40 minutes later he appeared .
Roland Perry
<5a53c91f-0e95-4d67...@z20g2000yqe.googlegroups.com>, at
13:05:10 on Mon, 28 Mar 2011, Owain <spuorg...@gowanhill.com>
remarked:
That wouldn't work where I live now, because it's across the end of a
short cul-de-sac which I think the van backs up. Nor is there a pavement
at all - vehicles and pedestrians share the block-pavework.
And it wouldn't work in the road I lived in before, because it has
parked cars down both sides pretty much all the time.
Thinking of other places I've lived in, it's a pretty unworkable scheme
altogether (and also means leaving your bin out blocking the pavement,
which is what the OP was complaining about, before collection as well as
afterwards).
--
Roland Perry
Mark Goodge
and typed:
>Mark Goodge wrote:
>>
>> Up to a point, yes, but the contract doesn't have to stipulate not
>> breaking the law - that much is simply a given. And the binmen are
>> breaking the law if, without reasonable excuse, they leave the bins
>> on the pavement rather than returning them to the edge of the
>> property from where they collected them.
>
>If its a contractual agreement between a private company and the LA
>and it stipulates the bins to be left on the pavement the bin men are
>not breaking the law
The OP says that "The council acknowledge that this is a problem", which
rather suggests that the council haven't given any such instruction to the
contractor.
steve robinson
Or it could mean we ( the council ) realise theres a problem because
of an omission or error we have made
Ultimatly if you cant get the local councillors to sought it (which
is probably the case as no local elections ) get onto your MP
Humbug
On one occasion, the binmen refused to empty my wheelie-bin because
thay said that it was "too heavy".
I demonstrated how heavy it was by picking it up in the air using the
"kinetic lift" method which I was trained to use over 30 years ago.
I am a 9-stone weakling.
Since then, they have broken the lid twice (I repaired it both times)
and lost it once.
The replacement bin arrived the following week (not the three weeks
which the Council had told me that it would take), and has a much
flimsier lid than the old one.
--
Humbug
Dave
> On Sat, 26 Mar 2011 16:35:03 +0000, "steve robinson"<st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Colin wrote:
>>
>>> On the estate where I live people have to put their refuse bins
>>> out - to be positioned on the property at the boundary with the
>>> footpath. Most people do this - some of course put them on the
>>> bins on the pavement - more often than not totally blocking the
>>> pavement such that people must walk in the road to pass them. I
>>> live near a school - a busy road - where mothers with prams are
>>> acknowledge that this is a problem - but say there is nothing they
>>> can do other than monitor the situation and remind crews that they
>>> should not do this. If someone phones up to complain - they say
>>> there is nothing that they can do regarding the particular blockage
>>> - and they will not send anyone out to rectify the problem.
>>>
>>> If a member of their staff has caused an obstruction - and it is
>>> drawn to the council's attention (Help Desk) - do they not have an
>>> obligation to rectify their illegal action?
>>>
>>> If I was to leave an A-board advertising my trade on the pavement -
>>> then they would prosecute me.
>>>
>>> I really would like to push this as far as I can - any suggestions?
>>
>> leaving the bin on the footpath.
>
>
> As I have said - most people put their bins out on their own property - the bin men do not return
> them - they leave them on the pavement.
>
> It is the bin men who are causing the obstructions.
On top of which, the local council owns the bin.
Dave
Mark
<st...@colevalleyinteriors.co.uk> wrote:
>Infact in many areas the refuse has to be placed on the footpath
>either in bin bags or wheely bins or its not collected.
Ours have to be placed on the footway and in the correct bin. I
normally keep my bins on the driveway and, if I forget to move them,
they are not emptied. If we put out bags then they would be left.
If the bin is "overfilled" then it would not be emptied. If you use
the wrong bin it is not emptied.
--
(\__/) M.
(='.'=) Due to the amount of spam posted via googlegroups and
(")_(") their inaction to the problem. I am blocking some articles
posted from there. If you wish your postings to be seen by
everyone you will need use a different method of posting.