Legal basis of FSA advice non-sunflower oil can be labelled "sunflower oil"

[Stephen Duppe]

Recently the FSA issued advice that food items may be offered for sale
labelled as "sunflower oil" (a product that has become scarcer owing to the
Russo-Ukrainian war) which do not actually contain any sunflower oil.

See for example this notice at food.gov.uk:

https://www.food.gov.uk/news-alerts/news/fsa-and-fss-advise-consumers-on-
substitution-of-ingredients-in-certain-food-products-to-avoid-food-supply-
disruption

What statutory or prerogative authority is the FSA exercising when it
allows such false labelling?

And how does false labelling "avoid food supply disruption"? If sunflower
oil is short as a result of the war, then it's short. Labelling can't
change that.

Stephen

[Martin Brown]

Sounds to me like a pragmatic operational decision that since only very
few people are allergic to commonly used cooking oils (possibly none?)
then it makes sense to allow substitutions by other non-allergenic oils
without having to reprint all of the labelling. Otherwise there will be
a pipeline stall whilst all the packaging is redesigned and reprinted.

Most food allergies and intolerances are due to peptides, proteins or
unusual sugars. MOst allergy risk comes from traces of the original
plant material getting into the pressed oil product.

Peanut oil and ground nut (peanut) oil being the most tricky.

https://www.anaphylaxis.org.uk/knowledgebase/vegetable-oils/

At one level it is astounding that cashew nuts are even safe to eat they
contian some very odd proteins. And the fruit they come out of and tree
they grow on contains urushiol (active ingredient of poison ivy!) and
almost everybody (apart from Japanese lacquer workers) are highly
allergic to that!

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/what-do-cashews-mangoes-and-poison-ivy-have-in-common/

Roasting detoxes it to some extent. Raw cashews can be quite risky.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Brian]

Besides the misleading of consumers, which is serious in itself, it could
be dangerous for those with allergies.

I’m no expert on allergies but, for example, if a person can consume / use
sun flower oil but has a nut allergy and buys “ sun flower oil” which is
actually one of the nut oils, the consequences could be fatal.

While responsible companies may well add suitable labels / warnings, not
only are there always unscrupulous ones, the nature of such ingredients
make tracking use difficult in places like restaurants etc.

Someone hasn’t thought this through.

[Colin Bignell]

On 15/05/2022 14:13, Stephen Duppe wrote:

> Recently the FSA issued advice that food items may be offered for sale
> labelled as "sunflower oil" (a product that has become scarcer owing to the
> Russo-Ukrainian war) which do not actually contain any sunflower oil.
>
> See for example this notice at food.gov.uk:
>
> https://www.food.gov.uk/news-alerts/news/fsa-and-fss-advise-consumers-on-
> substitution-of-ingredients-in-certain-food-products-to-avoid-food-supply-
> disruption
>
> What statutory or prerogative authority is the FSA exercising when it
> allows such false labelling?

So far as I can see, what they are saying is that they won't be taking
action against suppliers who have been forced to change to refined
rapeseed oil before they have been able to change the product labels.

> And how does false labelling "avoid food supply disruption"? If sunflower
> oil is short as a result of the war, then it's short. Labelling can't
> change that.

The sub-text is that this is a short-term problem, which will be
corrected in due course by the manufacturers changing their labels.
Meanwhile consumers are advised to check on information provided by
manufacturers and retailers.


--
Colin Bignell

[Stephen Duppe]

Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in
news:t5qvso$1ii2$1...@gioia.aioe.org:

The question was where does the FSA authority come from to say it will
allow false labelling.

Statute? Royal prerogative?

It wouldn't cost Tesco etc. much to print a million 1-inch square labels
saying e.g.

"Owing to a shortage of sunflower oil, the ingredients of this margarine
have changed. Here is what they are now: XXX."

SD

[Stephen Duppe]

Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote in news:t5r0in$b6l$1...@dont-email.me:

> Stephen Duppe <shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recently the FSA issued advice that food items may be offered for
>> sale labelled as "sunflower oil" (a product that has become scarcer
>> owing to the Russo-Ukrainian war) which do not actually contain any
>> sunflower oil.
>>
>> See for example this notice at food.gov.uk:
>>

>> https://www.food.gov.uk/news-alerts/news/fsa-and-fss-advise-
consumers-
>> on-
>> substitution-of-ingredients-in-certain-food-products-to-avoid-food-
sup

>> ply- disruption
>>
>> What statutory or prerogative authority is the FSA exercising when it
>> allows such false labelling?
>>
>> And how does false labelling "avoid food supply disruption"? If
>> sunflower oil is short as a result of the war, then it's short.
>> Labelling can't change that.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>
> Besides the misleading of consumers, which is serious in itself, it
> could be dangerous for those with allergies.
>
> I’m no expert on allergies but, for example, if a person can consume
> / use sun flower oil but has a nut allergy and buys “ sun flower
> oil” which is actually one of the nut oils, the consequences could
> be fatal.
>
> While responsible companies may well add suitable labels / warnings,
> not only are there always unscrupulous ones, the nature of such
> ingredients make tracking use difficult in places like restaurants
> etc.
>
> Someone hasn’t thought this through.

Agreed. A shortage of sunflower oil isn't the end of the world. People
with allergies to certain substitutes should be able to choose between
ones they know they're OK with (olive oil, butter, whatever) rather than
there being a chance that they will buy what is in the same packaging as
their usual product in the belief that the labelling is accurate, when
it actually contains substitutes that for them are dangerous. That
shouldn't be controversial. It's one of the functions of labelling.

This is a peculiar thing.

I am wondering whether what the FSA mean is that in this particular case
they won't prosecute anyone for false labelling. I would have thought
that kind of decision had to be cleared by the Attorney General. Or
perhaps they have the authority under a statute to allow false
labelling, but I can't see why they would have. Perhaps the authority
rests on a piece of emergency legislation?

SD

[Roland Perry]

In message <XnsAE9890AB...@46.165.242.75>, at 13:13:17 on Sun,
15 May 2022, Stephen Duppe <shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> remarked:

>Recently the FSA issued advice that food items may be offered for sale
>labelled as "sunflower oil" (a product that has become scarcer owing to the
>Russo-Ukrainian war) which do not actually contain any sunflower oil.

Sunflower oil is the cheap and nasty alternative to things like
Rapeseed oil and Olive Oil, so most consumers should be pleased
it's being substituted.
--
Roland Perry

[GB]

There's been a certain amount of exaggeration on this thread. Nobody is
allowed to substitute nut oils for sunflower oil.

The FSA announcement says this:
Advice for consumers that some food products labelled as containing
sunflower oil may instead contain *refined rapeseed oil* due to the
impact of the conflict in Ukraine on product availability.

Are there actually people who can eat sunflower oil but not rapeseed oil?

There may be a debate about which is healthier, but that probably
doesn't matter in the short term.

[Jeff Layman]

There's "raw" and there's "raw". Just to clarify, "raw" cashews as found
on sale here are not raw at all. They have been heat treated (sometimes
with steam) to remove the urushiol. They may appear raw when compared to
roasted cashews, but they are not.

--

Jeff

[Jeff Layman]

Care to expand and justify?

--

Jeff

[GB]

On 15/05/2022 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:

>>
>> Roasting detoxes it to some extent. Raw cashews can be quite risky.
>
> There's "raw" and there's "raw". Just to clarify, "raw" cashews as found
> on sale here are not raw at all. They have been heat treated (sometimes
> with steam) to remove the urushiol. They may appear raw when compared to
> roasted cashews, but they are not.
>

I've had unroasted cashews, bought in this country, and I'm delighted to
hear that I don't need to panic. :)

[Colin Bignell]

On 15/05/2022 15:40, Stephen Duppe wrote:
....

> Agreed. A shortage of sunflower oil isn't the end of the world. People
> with allergies to certain substitutes should be able to choose between
> ones they know they're OK with (olive oil, butter, whatever) rather than
> there being a chance that they will buy what is in the same packaging as
> their usual product in the belief that the labelling is accurate, when

> it actually contains substitutes that for them are dangerous. ...

Except that refined rapeseed oil, which is the only ingredient being
allowed, is not a potentially dangerous substitute for sunflower oil.

....

> I am wondering whether what the FSA mean is that in this particular case
> they won't prosecute anyone for false labelling. I would have thought

> that kind of decision had to be cleared by the Attorney General. ..

Why? They have the power to prosecute for false labelling, but I can see
nothing that says they have a duty to do so.




--
Colin Bignell

[Roger Hayter]

I thought rapeseed oil was the cheap and nasty substitute for peanut oil and
sunflower oil! However I really hope they wont't mislabel the pure oils, as
opposed to food with oil aa an ingredient. There is no excuse for that apart
from marketing. It can never be neceesary to use the wrong bottles.

--
Roger Hayter

[Brian]

There isn’t much to distinguish Rapeseed and Sunflower oil in culinary
terms / taste / health terms. Similar smoke points, nutrients ( all the
rage these days), neither have a flavour which taints food cooked in them.


Olive oil, despite the reputation of Mediterranean food*, lacks the extra
nutrients found in Rapeseed and Sunflower oil, has a distinctive taste, and
a lower smoke point.

Olive oil is a poor substitute for Sunflower oil where, for example, you
need a high smoke point or neutral tasting oil.

Those who take cooking seriously would never dismiss Sunflower oil as being
a cheap and nasty substitute for Olive oil.


* the healthy diet isn’t due to olive oil.

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 13:13:17 -0000 (UTC), Stephen Duppe
<shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Recently the FSA issued advice that food items may be offered for sale
>labelled as "sunflower oil" (a product that has become scarcer owing to the
>Russo-Ukrainian war) which do not actually contain any sunflower oil.
>
>See for example this notice at food.gov.uk:
>
>https://www.food.gov.uk/news-alerts/news/fsa-and-fss-advise-consumers-on-
>substitution-of-ingredients-in-certain-food-products-to-avoid-food-supply-
>disruption
>
>What statutory or prerogative authority is the FSA exercising when it
>allows such false labelling?

They're not "allowing" anything. They're merely issuing a press release
about it. Food producers are already allowed to make temporary
substitutions of ingredients where necessary. They don't need to ask the
FSA's permission.

>And how does false labelling "avoid food supply disruption"? If sunflower
>oil is short as a result of the war, then it's short. Labelling can't
>change that.

No, but it does mean that products which have sunflower oil listed as an
ingredient can continue to be made using a different oil.

Mark

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 14:26:16 -0000 (UTC), Stephen Duppe
<shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>"Owing to a shortage of sunflower oil, the ingredients of this margarine
>have changed. Here is what they are now: XXX."

But that may not necessarily be true. Some of it may still be using
whatever stocks of sunflower oil are available. There's a shortage, not
a complete absence. In a lot of cases, it's probably a variable mix of
sunflower oil and other oils, dpending entirely on what the manufacturer
had to hand when the tank labelled "oil" needed refilling. So all that
can reliably be said is that where sunflower oil is listed in the
ingredients, it may actually not be entirely sunflower oil, or possibly
not sunflower oil at all.

Mark

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 13:52:23 -0000 (UTC), Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote:

>Besides the misleading of consumers, which is serious in itself, it could
>be dangerous for those with allergies.

That's why the FSA has to be informed of any such substitutions, so that
they can do a risk analysis.

https://www.food.gov.uk/research/food-allergy-and-intolerance-research/rapid-risk-assessment-on-the-risk-of-allergic-reactions-in-uk-consumers-if-sunflower-oil-is-substituted-with-refined-rapeseed
or https://tinyurl.com/nhenxyz9

>I’m no expert on allergies but, for example, if a person can consume / use
>sun flower oil but has a nut allergy and buys “ sun flower oil” which is
>actually one of the nut oils, the consequences could be fatal.

They're not replacing sunflower oil with nut oil. They're replacing it
with rapeseed oil. Rapeseed oil does not have a statistically different
allergy profile to sunflower oil.

>While responsible companies may well add suitable labels / warnings, not
>only are there always unscrupulous ones, the nature of such ingredients
>make tracking use difficult in places like restaurants etc.
>
>Someone hasn’t thought this through.

It's pretty obvious that the people up in arms about it haven't thought
it through, yes. Because it only takes a few moments to look at the FSA
website to see that all of this has been considered in some depth.

Mark

[Mark Goodge]

On Sun, 15 May 2022 18:17:06 +0100, GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid>
wrote:

>There's been a certain amount of exaggeration on this thread. Nobody is
>allowed to substitute nut oils for sunflower oil.
>
>The FSA announcement says this:
>Advice for consumers that some food products labelled as containing
>sunflower oil may instead contain *refined rapeseed oil* due to the
>impact of the conflict in Ukraine on product availability.
>
>Are there actually people who can eat sunflower oil but not rapeseed oil?

The answer to that question appears to be "no". There's a whole host of
research papers referenced in the risk assessment which can be
downloaded from here:

https://www.food.gov.uk/research/food-allergy-and-intolerance-research/rapid-risk-assessment-on-the-risk-of-allergic-reactions-in-uk-consumers-if-sunflower-oil-is-substituted-with-refined-rapeseed
or https://tinyurl.com/nhenxyz9

and none of them indicate that refined rapeseed oil has any significant
allergy risk at all.

In fact, the reverse appears to be more likely to be true - there are
some people who can eat rapeseed oil, but not sunflower oil.

Mark

[Nick Cat]

On Sunday, 15 May 2022 at 21:40:01 UTC+1, Brian wrote:
> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
> > In message <XnsAE9890AB...@46.165.242.75>, at 13:13:17 on Sun,
> > 15 May 2022, Stephen Duppe <shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> remarked:

> > Sunflower oil is the cheap and nasty alternative to things like
> > Rapeseed oil and Olive Oil, so most consumers should be pleased
> > it's being substituted.

> There isn’t much to distinguish Rapeseed and Sunflower oil in culinary
> terms / taste / health terms. Similar smoke points, nutrients ( all the
> rage these days), neither have a flavour which taints food cooked in them.
>
>
> Olive oil, despite the reputation of Mediterranean food*, lacks the extra
> nutrients found in Rapeseed and Sunflower oil, has a distinctive taste, and
> a lower smoke point.
>
> Olive oil is a poor substitute for Sunflower oil where, for example, you
> need a high smoke point or neutral tasting oil.
>
> Those who take cooking seriously

I do

> would never dismiss Sunflower oil as being
> a cheap and nasty substitute for Olive oil.

I do. Seed oils are a health disaster.

[JNugent]

Rapeseed oil is usually more expensive than sunflower oil and thought of
as a superior product.

But it varies.

[Roland Perry]

In message <q5o28htfg74uegggu...@4ax.com>, at 21:29:09 on
Sun, 15 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:

And some food producers say rapeseed oil (as for example an ingredient
in crisps) is better because it's got 35% less saturated fat, and some
suggestion that sunflower oil is more likely to contain pesticide
residues.
--
Roland Perry

[Norman Wells]

Have you got a cite for that perhaps?

[Roland Perry]

In message <jed06p...@mid.individual.net>, at 18:47:53 on Sun, 15
May 2022, Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org> remarked:

>On 15 May 2022 at 16:50:51 BST, "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <XnsAE9890AB...@46.165.242.75>, at 13:13:17 on Sun,
>> 15 May 2022, Stephen Duppe <shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> Recently the FSA issued advice that food items may be offered for sale
>>> labelled as "sunflower oil" (a product that has become scarcer owing to the
>>> Russo-Ukrainian war) which do not actually contain any sunflower oil.
>>
>> Sunflower oil is the cheap and nasty alternative to things like
>> Rapeseed oil and Olive Oil, so most consumers should be pleased
>> it's being substituted.
>
>I thought rapeseed oil was the cheap and nasty substitute for peanut oil and
>sunflower oil!

This doesn't involve peanut oil. And no, the rapeseed oil is the better
product.

>However I really hope they wont't mislabel the pure oils, as opposed to
>food with oil aa an ingredient. There is no excuse for that apart from
>marketing. It can never be neceesary to use the wrong bottles.

It *is* only as an ingredient. The supply chains can't be expected to
cope with for example crisps, most of which would normally be fried in
sunflower oil, having alternative packaging with various blends of oils
from 100% sunflower to 100% rapeseed, and several points in between -
depending on what the factory had available that day.
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <t5rep8$l6a$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:54:48 on Sun, 15 May
2022, Jeff Layman <jmla...@invalid.invalid> remarked:

See my comment to Mark.
--
Roland Perry

[Colin Bignell]

There are a few nutritionists who claim the high levels of
polyunsaturated fats can lead to health problems. I've not managed to
find any reliable sources to show that they actually do though, so IMO,
this is still tin foil hat territory.

--
Colin Bignell

[Brian]

There is a lot of snobbery / fashion / marketing surrounding oils.

Olive oil was virtually unknown here until a cook called Elizabeth David
started a trend. It does have advantages but isn’t a panacea.

But for her, we’d still be using dripping* ( from beef) or lard ( from
pigs).

Rape seed oil is even newer. It was common in Europe but became popular
here in the last 30 or 40 years.

The dangers / risks of saturated fats are a mine field. I remember when
dairy products were considered almost like polyfiller for your arteries
but newer research has debunked such claims. Like most thinks, it is a
question of balance.

* I’ve just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on
potatoes when you bake them in the oven. I’ve not tried it yet. I’ve only
tasted dripping once - 50 years ago- I recall it being ‘dry’ and salty.
Probably ideal to crisp the skin of a jacket potato.

[Martin Brown]

On 15/05/2022 18:45, Jeff Layman wrote:

In the UK that is true but in the tropics they are available fresh.

But you only want to eat them if someone who *really* knows what they
are doing has prepared them. Much like with eating fugu fish in Japan
except that a mistake is not usually quite so likely to kill you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugu#Regulations

But it would be extremely uncomfortable and might still be life
threatening in a third world country without advanced medical care.

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Martin Brown]

On 15/05/2022 14:52, Brian wrote:
> Stephen Duppe <shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>> Recently the FSA issued advice that food items may be offered for sale
>> labelled as "sunflower oil" (a product that has become scarcer owing to the
>> Russo-Ukrainian war) which do not actually contain any sunflower oil.
>>
>> See for example this notice at food.gov.uk:
>>
>> https://www.food.gov.uk/news-alerts/news/fsa-and-fss-advise-consumers-on-
>> substitution-of-ingredients-in-certain-food-products-to-avoid-food-supply-
>> disruption
>>
>> What statutory or prerogative authority is the FSA exercising when it
>> allows such false labelling?
>>
>> And how does false labelling "avoid food supply disruption"? If sunflower
>> oil is short as a result of the war, then it's short. Labelling can't
>> change that.
>>
>> Stephen
>>
>
> Besides the misleading of consumers, which is serious in itself, it could
> be dangerous for those with allergies.
>
> I’m no expert on allergies but, for example, if a person can consume / use
> sun flower oil but has a nut allergy and buys “ sun flower oil” which is
> actually one of the nut oils, the consequences could be fatal.

It is much more likely that they will cut it with rapeseed oil (which is
generally better tolerated for allergies than sunflower oil).

Provided that the oils are well filtered there is very much less of a
problem with them than with the original whole plant material.

>
> While responsible companies may well add suitable labels / warnings, not
> only are there always unscrupulous ones, the nature of such ingredients
> make tracking use difficult in places like restaurants etc.
>
> Someone hasn’t thought this through.

I think they have made a pragmatic decision to keep food on the shelves.

If you think this is dodgy practice how about the lethal doses of PCBs
in chickens in Belgium when a dodgy feed merchant was cutting fats in
its feed with waste transformer oil PCBs with dioxin as an impurity. It
was mysteriously killing chickens on some farms.

Dioxins made all the headlines but the PCBs are more dangerous.

The scientist who blew the whistle on this scam was prosecuted by their
government for spreading alarm. In fact he was absolutely spot on.

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/11896663/

Bit like with Edwina Curry...

--
Regards,
Martin Brown

[Stephen Duppe]

GB <NOTso...@microsoft.invalid> wrote in news:t5rcih$5p9$1...@dont-email.me:

It doesn't matter to the legal issue of what the authority is for the FSA
to allow false labelling.

SD

[Stephen Duppe]

Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote in
news:OlI2f4Gy...@perry.uk:

Then call it rapeseed oil and educate people about it.
That's no reason to call it sunflower oil.

SD

[Stephen Duppe]

Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in
news:icn28hdsvmf4fsonb...@4ax.com:

In your last sentence you are using a strange definition of "product".

A great big bottle of sunflower oil that says "sunflower oil" on its
label cannot "continue" to be made using rapeseed oil instead of
sunflower oil. The same goes for a tub labelled "sunflower margarine".

But more importantly, I was surprised to read that

> Food producers are already allowed to make temporary
> substitutions of ingredients where necessary. They don't need to ask
> the FSA's permission.

The issue is not the substitution of ingredients by producers. The issue
is the offering for sale of falsely labelled foods.

Personally I have never before seen the kind of notice that I saw stuck
up in a Tesco store recently, which was like this one:

https://i2-
prod.plymouthherald.co.uk/incoming/article7058435.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0
_Tesco-announce-changes-to-sunflower-oil-due-to-crisis-in-Ukraine.jpg

Are you saying that grocery stores are allowed to sell falsely labelled
foods temporarily and where "necessary" (whatever that means) without
asking the FSA's permission?

If yes, then what is the legal authority for them to do that?

SD

[Mark Goodge]

On 15 May 2022 18:47:53 GMT, Roger Hayter <ro...@hayter.org> wrote:

>On 15 May 2022 at 16:50:51 BST, "Roland Perry" <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> In message <XnsAE9890AB...@46.165.242.75>, at 13:13:17 on Sun,
>> 15 May 2022, Stephen Duppe <shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>>
>>> Recently the FSA issued advice that food items may be offered for sale
>>> labelled as "sunflower oil" (a product that has become scarcer owing to the
>>> Russo-Ukrainian war) which do not actually contain any sunflower oil.
>>
>> Sunflower oil is the cheap and nasty alternative to things like
>> Rapeseed oil and Olive Oil, so most consumers should be pleased
>> it's being substituted.
>
>I thought rapeseed oil was the cheap and nasty substitute for peanut oil and
>sunflower oil!

Peanut oil has an entirely different use case. Sunflower oil and
rapeseed oil tend to be considered broadly equivalent as light cooking
oils or ingredients. Which is better or worse depends mainly on what you
want to do with them. At wholesale level, sunflower oil is actually
cheaper than rapeseed oil.

>However I really hope they wont't mislabel the pure oils, as
>opposed to food with oil aa an ingredient. There is no excuse for that apart
>from marketing. It can never be neceesary to use the wrong bottles.

They're not mislabelling pure oil, no. It just means there's very little
sunflower oil on the supermarket shelves at the moment.

Mark

[Roland Perry]

In message <XnsAE998057...@46.165.242.75>, at 11:37:00 on Mon,
16 May 2022, Stephen Duppe <shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> remarked:

>Personally I have never before seen the kind of notice that I saw stuck
>up in a Tesco store recently, which was like this one:
>
>https://i2-
>prod.plymouthherald.co.uk/incoming/article7058435.ece/ALTERNATES/s810/0
>_Tesco-announce-changes-to-sunflower-oil-due-to-crisis-in-Ukraine.jpg

You missed the avian flu "sorry these eggs aren't officially free
range any more, because they've been cooped up in barns for months
now" notices?
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <XnsAE997E84...@46.165.242.75>, at 11:26:14 on Mon,

16 May 2022, Stephen Duppe <shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> remarked:

>> And some food producers say rapeseed oil (as for example an ingredient
>> in crisps) is better because it's got 35% less saturated fat, and some
>> suggestion that sunflower oil is more likely to contain pesticide
>> residues.
>
>Then call it rapeseed oil and educate people about it.

The ones whose regular recipe includes it, do.

>That's no reason to call it sunflower oil.

Is that a vote for producers of crisps to have multiple different
packaging, depending on the recipe-du-jour, which in turn depends
on the availability from day to day?

When did you last read the ingredients list on a packet of crisps?
--
Roland Perry

[Roland Perry]

In message <t5t6hb$o3c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:19 on Mon, 16 May
2022, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:

>* I’ve just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on
>potatoes when you bake them in the oven.

That's probably from the days anyone could afford to be roasting beef at
the same time. I use Olive Oil, and my guests will travel miles just to
taste them.
--
Roland Perry

[Roger Hayter]

I read one the other day, I have absolutely no idea how old the text was, that
said rapeseed, sunflower and anoother I can't remember oil in varying
proportions. Presumably that was legal.


--
Roger Hayter

[Roland Perry]

In message <ucf48hh0qu1vhev5u...@4ax.com>, at 13:16:51 on
Mon, 16 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:

And that which there is, the cleaners have wiped off.
--
Roland Perry

[Roger Hayter]

Dripping as prepared, unrefined, for spreading on bread/toast should have some
of the (aqueous but viscous) meat juices with it, and is then salty but with
lots of flavour and not at all dry.

--
Roger Hayter

[Mark Goodge]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:59:43 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
wrote:

>In message <t5t6hb$o3c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:19 on Mon, 16 May
>2022, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
>

>>* I致e just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on

>>potatoes when you bake them in the oven.
>
>That's probably from the days anyone could afford to be roasting beef at
>the same time. I use Olive Oil, and my guests will travel miles just to
>taste them.

Well, it mostly dates from the days when cuts of beef had a lot more fat
on them than they tend to have now, and it was roasted in the oven with
the potatoes underneath them so that the fat would drip onto them.
That's why beef fat is called "dripping".

Pretty much any professional chef will tell you that animal fat (duck is
the most commonly used these days) will give superior results to
vegetable fat, though. Olive oil is the best if you have to use a
vegetable oil (which, of course, you will if you are, or are catering
for, vegetarians or vegans), but it lacks the flavour of animal fats.

Mark

[Mark Goodge]

It isn't the FSA which is allowing it.

Mark

[Mark Goodge]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 11:37:00 -0000 (UTC), Stephen Duppe
<shud...@REMOVE.yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote in
>news:icn28hdsvmf4fsonb...@4ax.com:
>

>> No, but it does mean that products which have sunflower oil listed as
>> an ingredient can continue to be made using a different oil.
>
>In your last sentence you are using a strange definition of "product".
>
>A great big bottle of sunflower oil that says "sunflower oil" on its
>label cannot "continue" to be made using rapeseed oil instead of
>sunflower oil. The same goes for a tub labelled "sunflower margarine".

No, those can't, because they contain the name of the oil in the product
title. A bottle of "sunflower oil" or tub of "sunflower margerine" can't
be made with any other oil. If there's a shortage of sunflower oil,
those simply have to stop being made, and hence sold.

What we're talking about here is things (such as the aforementioned
crisps) which have sunflower oil as a minor ingredient and make no
claims in the product title to being a sunflower product. Those can
continue to be made using a variable mix of sunflower and rapeseed oil
without needing to change the packaging.

>But more importantly, I was surprised to read that
>
>> Food producers are already allowed to make temporary
>> substitutions of ingredients where necessary. They don't need to ask
>> the FSA's permission.
>
>The issue is not the substitution of ingredients by producers. The issue
>is the offering for sale of falsely labelled foods.

No; it is just ingredients. If it says "sunflower" in the product title
then it can't be substituted. It's only the use of sunflower oil as an
ingredient which can be replaced by rapeseed oil.

Mark

[Max Demian]

On 16/05/2022 15:58, Roger Hayter wrote:
> On 16 May 2022 at 10:46:19 BST, "Brian" <no...@lid.org> wrote:
>> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>> In message <q5o28htfg74uegggu...@4ax.com>, at 21:29:09 on
>>> Sun, 15 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>

>>>> and none of them indicate that refined rapeseed oil has any significant
>>>> allergy risk at all.

I tried it once, but thought it rather smelly. It seems to be the
default vegetable oil, mainly identified by the yellow flowers on the label.

I think it was originally developed as a lubricant for steam engines,
before the Texas oil rush.

>>>> In fact, the reverse appears to be more likely to be true - there are
>>>> some people who can eat rapeseed oil, but not sunflower oil.
>>>
>>> And some food producers say rapeseed oil (as for example an ingredient
>>> in crisps) is better because it's got 35% less saturated fat, and some
>>> suggestion that sunflower oil is more likely to contain pesticide
>>> residues.
>>
>> There is a lot of snobbery / fashion / marketing surrounding oils.
>>
>> Olive oil was virtually unknown here until a cook called Elizabeth David
>> started a trend. It does have advantages but isn’t a panacea.
>>
>> But for her, we’d still be using dripping* ( from beef) or lard ( from
>> pigs).
>>
>> Rape seed oil is even newer. It was common in Europe but became popular
>> here in the last 30 or 40 years.
>>
>> The dangers / risks of saturated fats are a mine field. I remember when
>> dairy products were considered almost like polyfiller for your arteries
>> but newer research has debunked such claims. Like most thinks, it is a
>> question of balance.
>>
>> * I’ve just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on
>> potatoes when you bake them in the oven. I’ve not tried it yet. I’ve only
>> tasted dripping once - 50 years ago- I recall it being ‘dry’ and salty.
>> Probably ideal to crisp the skin of a jacket potato.
>
> Dripping as prepared, unrefined, for spreading on bread/toast should have some
> of the (aqueous but viscous) meat juices with it, and is then salty but with
> lots of flavour and not at all dry.

As a child I regarded it as a delicacy, on bread or toast as a treat.
Poured into a basin to set, with the brown jelly underneath.

The beef dripping you can buy is much too refined.

--
Max Demian

[Robert]

>>
>> * I’ve just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on
>> potatoes when you bake them in the oven. I’ve not tried it yet. I’ve only
>> tasted dripping once - 50 years ago- I recall it being ‘dry’ and salty.
>> Probably ideal to crisp the skin of a jacket potato.
>
> Dripping as prepared, unrefined, for spreading on bread/toast should have some
> of the (aqueous but viscous) meat juices with it, and is then salty but with
> lots of flavour and not at all dry.
>

+1 Good memories of the 60's - dripping on toast/bread. A large joint
of beef ( Aitch Bone) was cheap food then and lasted 3 days at least in
various forms

[Roland Perry]

In message <ofr48h9vullp1cqan...@4ax.com>, at 16:34:03 on
Mon, 16 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:

>On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:59:43 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <t5t6hb$o3c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:19 on Mon, 16 May
>>2022, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
>>

>>>* I’ve just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on

>>>potatoes when you bake them in the oven.
>>
>>That's probably from the days anyone could afford to be roasting beef at
>>the same time. I use Olive Oil, and my guests will travel miles just to
>>taste them.
>
>Well, it mostly dates from the days when cuts of beef had a lot more fat
>on them than they tend to have now, and it was roasted in the oven with
>the potatoes underneath them so that the fat would drip onto them.
>That's why beef fat is called "dripping".

I tend to do my roasts in dishes, and get complaints if anything drips
on the floor of the oven.

>Pretty much any professional chef will tell you that animal fat (duck is
>the most commonly used these days) will give superior results to
>vegetable fat, though.

It probably is better, but I don't have a jar of it available 24x7.

>Olive oil is the best if you have to use a
>vegetable oil (which, of course, you will if you are, or are catering
>for, vegetarians or vegans), but it lacks the flavour of animal fats.

It's more the texture than the taste which appeals, I find.
--
Roland Perry

[Mark Goodge]

On Mon, 16 May 2022 16:55:37 +0100, Max Demian <max_d...@bigfoot.com>
wrote:

>On 16/05/2022 15:58, Roger Hayter wrote:
>> On 16 May 2022 at 10:46:19 BST, "Brian" <no...@lid.org> wrote:
>>> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> wrote:
>>>> In message <q5o28htfg74uegggu...@4ax.com>, at 21:29:09 on
>>>> Sun, 15 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>
>>>>> and none of them indicate that refined rapeseed oil has any significant
>>>>> allergy risk at all.
>
>I tried it once, but thought it rather smelly. It seems to be the
>default vegetable oil, mainly identified by the yellow flowers on the label.
>
>I think it was originally developed as a lubricant for steam engines,
>before the Texas oil rush.

It's never been used as a lubricant, at least until not very
recently[1]. It's actually one of the oldest known vegetable oils, being
grown in India as early as 4,000 BC. But it only became a major source
of culinary oil on an industrial scale in the 20th century when new
cultivars were developed with better yield and higher quality oil.

[1] It's one of the sources of so-called "biolubricants", which are
intended to replace mineral oil with plant oil in much the same way that
biodiesel is made from plant oil rather than mineral oil. But that's
still an expensive, and not at all widespread, use.

Mark

[Brian]

I was referring to taste - as in dry wine. Perhaps not the best
description. Then it was 50 years ago I tasted it.

I’ve found a shop which sells it - processed of course. I may buy some and
try it on baked potatoes.

[Mark Goodge]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:45:26 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>

wrote:

>In message <ofr48h9vullp1cqan...@4ax.com>, at 16:34:03 on
>Mon, 16 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>remarked:
>>On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:59:43 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <t5t6hb$o3c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:19 on Mon, 16 May
>>>2022, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
>>>

>>>>* I致e just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on

>>>>potatoes when you bake them in the oven.
>>>
>>>That's probably from the days anyone could afford to be roasting beef at
>>>the same time. I use Olive Oil, and my guests will travel miles just to
>>>taste them.
>>
>>Well, it mostly dates from the days when cuts of beef had a lot more fat
>>on them than they tend to have now, and it was roasted in the oven with
>>the potatoes underneath them so that the fat would drip onto them.
>>That's why beef fat is called "dripping".
>
>I tend to do my roasts in dishes, and get complaints if anything drips
>on the floor of the oven.

Well, the traditional way of doing it was to put the joint of beef
directly on the shelf, and then have the tray (containing the potatoes)
underneath it. Or you have a rack on the tray, wih the joint on top of
the rack and the potatoes underneath it.

>>Pretty much any professional chef will tell you that animal fat (duck is
>>the most commonly used these days) will give superior results to
>>vegetable fat, though.
>
>It probably is better, but I don't have a jar of it available 24x7.

Duck fat is as easy to buy in supermarkets as olive oil. But, unlike
plant-based oils, it does need to be kept in the fridge.

Mark

[Roland Perry]

In message <6ak68hpgauqmjnpqm...@4ax.com>, at 08:45:07 on
Tue, 17 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>

remarked:
>On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:45:26 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <ofr48h9vullp1cqan...@4ax.com>, at 16:34:03 on
>>Mon, 16 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>remarked:
>>>On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:59:43 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <t5t6hb$o3c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:19 on Mon, 16 May
>>>>2022, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
>>>>

>>>>>* I’ve just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on

>>>>>potatoes when you bake them in the oven.
>>>>
>>>>That's probably from the days anyone could afford to be roasting beef at
>>>>the same time. I use Olive Oil, and my guests will travel miles just to
>>>>taste them.
>>>
>>>Well, it mostly dates from the days when cuts of beef had a lot more fat
>>>on them than they tend to have now, and it was roasted in the oven with
>>>the potatoes underneath them so that the fat would drip onto them.
>>>That's why beef fat is called "dripping".
>>
>>I tend to do my roasts in dishes, and get complaints if anything drips
>>on the floor of the oven.
>
>Well, the traditional way of doing it was to put the joint of beef
>directly on the shelf, and then have the tray (containing the potatoes)
>underneath it. Or you have a rack on the tray, wih the joint on top of
>the rack and the potatoes underneath it.
>
>>>Pretty much any professional chef will tell you that animal fat (duck is
>>>the most commonly used these days) will give superior results to
>>>vegetable fat, though.
>>
>>It probably is better, but I don't have a jar of it available 24x7.
>
>Duck fat is as easy to buy in supermarkets as olive oil.

In big supermarkets, perhaps.

>But, unlike plant-based oils, it does need to be kept in the fridge.

My fridge is full of this and that. How long does it last?
--
Roland Perry

[Mark Goodge]

On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:08:44 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>

wrote:

>In message <6ak68hpgauqmjnpqm...@4ax.com>, at 08:45:07 on
>Tue, 17 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>remarked:
>>On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:45:26 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>In message <ofr48h9vullp1cqan...@4ax.com>, at 16:34:03 on
>>>Mon, 16 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>remarked:
>>>>On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:59:43 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>In message <t5t6hb$o3c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:19 on Mon, 16 May
>>>>>2022, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
>>>>>

>>>>>>* I致e just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on

>>>>>>potatoes when you bake them in the oven.
>>>>>
>>>>>That's probably from the days anyone could afford to be roasting beef at
>>>>>the same time. I use Olive Oil, and my guests will travel miles just to
>>>>>taste them.
>>>>
>>>>Well, it mostly dates from the days when cuts of beef had a lot more fat
>>>>on them than they tend to have now, and it was roasted in the oven with
>>>>the potatoes underneath them so that the fat would drip onto them.
>>>>That's why beef fat is called "dripping".
>>>
>>>I tend to do my roasts in dishes, and get complaints if anything drips
>>>on the floor of the oven.
>>
>>Well, the traditional way of doing it was to put the joint of beef
>>directly on the shelf, and then have the tray (containing the potatoes)
>>underneath it. Or you have a rack on the tray, wih the joint on top of
>>the rack and the potatoes underneath it.
>>
>>>>Pretty much any professional chef will tell you that animal fat (duck is
>>>>the most commonly used these days) will give superior results to
>>>>vegetable fat, though.
>>>
>>>It probably is better, but I don't have a jar of it available 24x7.
>>
>>Duck fat is as easy to buy in supermarkets as olive oil.
>
>In big supermarkets, perhaps.

It's in all three of my local Tesco, Morrisons and Waitrose. I haven't
looked in Aldi or Lidl.

>>But, unlike plant-based oils, it does need to be kept in the fridge.
>
>My fridge is full of this and that. How long does it last?

Depends how often you cook with it. I find that a tub lasts a couple of
months, based on using it once a week for a Sunday roast. It won't go
off quickly if kept in the fridge, if that's what you mean. The tub in
my fridge has a best before (not "use by") date of September 2023, which
is further into the future than the bottles of olive oil (June 2023),
rapeseed oil (May 2023) and sunflower oil (February 2023) that are in
the cupboard.

Mark

[Roland Perry]

In message <csn68hp0b53avk6hn...@4ax.com>, at 09:48:48 on

Tue, 17 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
remarked:
>On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:08:44 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>wrote:
>
>>In message <6ak68hpgauqmjnpqm...@4ax.com>, at 08:45:07 on
>>Tue, 17 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>remarked:
>>>On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:45:26 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>>>wrote:
>>>
>>>>In message <ofr48h9vullp1cqan...@4ax.com>, at 16:34:03 on
>>>>Mon, 16 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>>remarked:
>>>>>On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:59:43 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>>>>>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>>In message <t5t6hb$o3c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:19 on Mon, 16 May
>>>>>>2022, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
>>>>>>

>>>>>>>* I’ve just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on

>>>>>>>potatoes when you bake them in the oven.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>That's probably from the days anyone could afford to be roasting beef at
>>>>>>the same time. I use Olive Oil, and my guests will travel miles just to
>>>>>>taste them.
>>>>>
>>>>>Well, it mostly dates from the days when cuts of beef had a lot more fat
>>>>>on them than they tend to have now, and it was roasted in the oven with
>>>>>the potatoes underneath them so that the fat would drip onto them.
>>>>>That's why beef fat is called "dripping".
>>>>
>>>>I tend to do my roasts in dishes, and get complaints if anything drips
>>>>on the floor of the oven.
>>>
>>>Well, the traditional way of doing it was to put the joint of beef
>>>directly on the shelf, and then have the tray (containing the potatoes)
>>>underneath it. Or you have a rack on the tray, wih the joint on top of
>>>the rack and the potatoes underneath it.
>>>
>>>>>Pretty much any professional chef will tell you that animal fat (duck is
>>>>>the most commonly used these days) will give superior results to
>>>>>vegetable fat, though.
>>>>
>>>>It probably is better, but I don't have a jar of it available 24x7.
>>>
>>>Duck fat is as easy to buy in supermarkets as olive oil.
>>
>>In big supermarkets, perhaps.
>
>It's in all three of my local Tesco, Morrisons and Waitrose. I haven't
>looked in Aldi or Lidl.

I'll have a look in the CoOp later. I'm not sure a Tesco Metro/Local
would have it.

>>>But, unlike plant-based oils, it does need to be kept in the fridge.
>>
>>My fridge is full of this and that. How long does it last?
>
>Depends how often you cook with it. I find that a tub lasts a couple of
>months, based on using it once a week for a Sunday roast.

It's about once every three weeks here (even with roast meat we don't
necessarily have roast potatoes).

>It won't go
>off quickly if kept in the fridge, if that's what you mean. The tub in
>my fridge has a best before (not "use by") date of September 2023, which
>is further into the future than the bottles of olive oil (June 2023),
>rapeseed oil (May 2023) and sunflower oil (February 2023) that are in
>the cupboard.

Ah yes, but especially the Olive oil I use for many other things.

--
Roland Perry

[Jon Ribbens]

On 2022-05-17, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:
> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:08:44 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>>In message <6ak68hpgauqmjnpqm...@4ax.com>, at 08:45:07 on
>>Tue, 17 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>remarked:

>>>Duck fat is as easy to buy in supermarkets as olive oil.
>>
>>In big supermarkets, perhaps.
>
> It's in all three of my local Tesco, Morrisons and Waitrose. I haven't
> looked in Aldi or Lidl.

It's certainly not in my 'Tesco Express', which does sell olive oil
of course. It seems plausible it might be available in the secret
Waitrose under John Lewis I suppose.

[Roger Hayter]

On 17 May 2022 at 09:48:48 BST, "Mark Goodge"

<use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk> wrote:

> On Tue, 17 May 2022 09:08:44 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
> wrote:
>
>> In message <6ak68hpgauqmjnpqm...@4ax.com>, at 08:45:07 on
>> Tue, 17 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>> remarked:
>>> On Tue, 17 May 2022 07:45:26 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> In message <ofr48h9vullp1cqan...@4ax.com>, at 16:34:03 on
>>>> Mon, 16 May 2022, Mark Goodge <use...@listmail.good-stuff.co.uk>
>>>> remarked:
>>>>> On Mon, 16 May 2022 13:59:43 +0100, Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> In message <t5t6hb$o3c$1...@dont-email.me>, at 09:46:19 on Mon, 16 May
>>>>>> 2022, Brian <no...@lid.org> remarked:
>>>>>>

>>>>>>> * I’ve just seen a tip that beef dripping is the best fat to smear on

Though that probably only applies when unopened, and in an inert atmosphere.

--
Roger Hayter

[Roland Perry]

In message <odl$BXAEU5...@perry.uk>, at 13:28:52 on Tue, 17 May 2022,
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> remarked:

No, and I'm not even sure what section it would be in. It's not dairy
(and there wasn't any there), nor meat (and there wasn't any there).
Neither cooked meats, nor cheeses seem likely candidates (and there
wasn't any there either).

I know, let's try the interwebs:

Co-op Goose Fat 320g
Goose Fat

Product unavailable.

Packed in France. Produced in Poland and Hungary.

Does have a recipe though: "Use 100g of Goose Fat to coat approximately
1kg of peeled roasting potatoes." So that's three batches per jar (£3
where available).

If you can't afford that, follow the latest government advice, and get a
better paying job. [Rachel Maclean, yesterday]. And I don't need to go
on cookery lessons, thanks, even though 30p/meal does sound a bit
ambitious [Lee Anderson, last week].

I wonder if Waitrose does "Essential Goose Fat" [nope, and even their
regular one is "Sorry, this item is not available"], and so the food
bank is unlikely to have any.

[Colin Bignell]

I have bought it in a Tesco supermarket, but, as I use it rarely, I find
it simpler to buy frozen roast potatoes pre-coated in duck fat.

--
Colin Bignell

[Roland Perry]

In message <_b2dnaJrxIUdIB7_...@giganews.com>, at 16:21:34
on Tue, 17 May 2022, Colin Bignell <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk>
remarked:

I find those tend to degenerate into mush when roasted. (And also not
available in all supermarkets at all times - the shelves in my
supermarkets are still bearing multiple scars of supply chain issues)

--
Roland Perry

[Colin Bignell]

On 18/05/2022 07:48, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <_b2dnaJrxIUdIB7_...@giganews.com>, at 16:21:34
> on Tue, 17 May 2022, Colin Bignell <c...@bignellREMOVETHIS.me.uk> remarked:

....

>> I have bought it in a Tesco supermarket, but, as I use it rarely, I
>> find it simpler to buy frozen roast potatoes pre-coated in duck fat.
>
> I find those tend to degenerate into mush when roasted.

If anything, I find the opposite; that they are a bit too crunchy at times.

> (And also not
> available in all supermarkets at all times - the shelves in my
> supermarkets are still bearing multiple scars of supply chain issues)

One of the benefits of Brexit, combined with Covid and an ageing
population of lorry drivers.

--
Colin Bignell