Employment - Overtime not paid when sick
Munch
Hi,
Background:
I've been working in my current employment for 18 years. I am on a
salary and do not get paid for inhouse overtime unless it is requested.
When I work off site the overtime is guaranteed as I have no choice on
when I can finish. I have no written contract and this overtime payment
has been in place verbally for the past 8 years.
Problem:
Last month after 2 weeks on site & 1/2 week in house, I went down with
glandular fever. I provided a note from the doctor. When I got paid I
found that all my overtime from the first 2 weeks had been stopped (20
hours worth). The reason i had was because I had been off sick.
Can they do this?
Also does this mean that if I have a sick day near the beginning of the
month, that I should refuse to work off site for the rest of that month
(as I wouldn't be paid for the extra work)?
Regards
Munch
--
Munch
Big Les Wade
>I've been working in my current employment for 18 years. I am on a
>salary and do not get paid for inhouse overtime unless it is requested.
>When I work off site the overtime is guaranteed as I have no choice on
>when I can finish. I have no written contract and this overtime payment
>has been in place verbally for the past 8 years.
It now forms part of the contract by established custom and practice.
Can you prove this, BTW? Are other employees on the same arrangement
that you could call on to back you up?
>Problem:
>
>Last month after 2 weeks on site & 1/2 week in house, I went down with
>glandular fever. I provided a note from the doctor. When I got paid I
>found that all my overtime from the first 2 weeks had been stopped (20
>hours worth). The reason i had was because I had been off sick.
>
>Can they do this?
They can try, but they would be breaking their contract with you.
Insist on being paid for the overtime, quoting the established practice.
If they refuse, continue to try to resolve the dispute using in-house
procedures (if any exist) until you reach deadlock. Then (i) consider
suing them for the money, or (ii) resign and apply to an employment
tribunal to get compensation for unfair dismissal, or (iii) forget it.
Whichever you choose it is clearly time to look for a new job.
>Also does this mean that if I have a sick day near the beginning of the
>month, that I should refuse to work off site for the rest of that month
>(as I wouldn't be paid for the extra work)?
If your employer confirms that you won't be paid, yes, you should. But
be prepared to be sacked. They have already shown themselves to be
cheats and thieves, so they aren't likely to be very scrupulous about
it. What surprises me is you've worked there for 18 years and never had
a problem before. Has something changed recently?
--
Les
Dave
> Munch <Munch....@legalbanter.co.uk> posted
>
>> I've been working in my current employment for 18 years. I am on a
>> salary and do not get paid for inhouse overtime unless it is requested.
>> When I work off site the overtime is guaranteed as I have no choice on
>> when I can finish. I have no written contract and this overtime payment
>> has been in place verbally for the past 8 years.
>
> It now forms part of the contract by established custom and practice.
>
> Can you prove this, BTW? Are other employees on the same arrangement
> that you could call on to back you up?
>
>> Problem:
>>
>> Last month after 2 weeks on site & 1/2 week in house, I went down with
>> glandular fever. I provided a note from the doctor. When I got paid I
>> found that all my overtime from the first 2 weeks had been stopped (20
>> hours worth). The reason i had was because I had been off sick.
>>
>> Can they do this?
>
> They can try, but they would be breaking their contract with you.
>
> Insist on being paid for the overtime, quoting the established practice.
> If they refuse, continue to try to resolve the dispute using in-house
> procedures (if any exist) until you reach deadlock. Then (i) consider
> suing them for the money, or (ii) resign and apply to an employment
Except you wouldn't have been dismissed and I doubt if it would
constitute constructive dismissal either.
Fred
"Big Les Wade" <L...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:F6c$1$A5LM0...@god.heaven...
Many contracts say that the hours may be arbitrary or not confined to 9 to
5. If they do specify a fixed time for normal working hours, then I think
the OP would have some weight behind their argument.
Suggesting the OP should resign is not a good idea!! Proving constructive
dismissal would be an uphill struggle.
Dr Zoidberg
>
> Hi,
>
> Background:
>
> I've been working in my current employment for 18 years. I am on a
> salary and do not get paid for inhouse overtime unless it is requested.
> When I work off site the overtime is guaranteed as I have no choice on
> when I can finish. I have no written contract and this overtime payment
> has been in place verbally for the past 8 years.
>
> Problem:
>
> Last month after 2 weeks on site & 1/2 week in house, I went down with
> glandular fever. I provided a note from the doctor. When I got paid I
> found that all my overtime from the first 2 weeks had been stopped (20
> hours worth). The reason i had was because I had been off sick.
>
> Can they do this?
I don't see how they can justify this.
You have done overtime which you seem to be entitled to be paid for.
What happened in the second half of the month shouldn't be relevant.
Have they put this in writing?
--
Alex
"I laugh in the face of danger , then I hide until it goes away"
Munch
'Dave[_7_ Wrote:
> ;623159']Big Les Wade wrote:-
> Munch Munch....@legalbanter.co.uk posted
> -
> I've been working in my current employment for 18 years. I am on a
> salary and do not get paid for inhouse overtime unless it is
> requested.
> When I work off site the overtime is guaranteed as I have no choice
> on
> when I can finish. I have no written contract and this overtime
> payment
>
> It now forms part of the contract by established custom and practice.
>
> Can you prove this, BTW? Are other employees on the same arrangement
> that you could call on to back you up?
> Problem:
>
> Last month after 2 weeks on site & 1/2 week in house, I went down
> with
> glandular fever. I provided a note from the doctor. When I got paid I
> found that all my overtime from the first 2 weeks had been stopped
> (20
> hours worth). The reason i had was because I had been off sick.
>
>
> They can try, but they would be breaking their contract with you.
>
> Insist on being paid for the overtime, quoting the established
> practice.
> If they refuse, continue to try to resolve the dispute using in-house
>
> procedures (if any exist) until you reach deadlock. Then (i) consider
>
> suing them for the money, or (ii) resign and apply to an employment
>
> Except you wouldn't have been dismissed and I doubt if it would
> constitute constructive dismissal either.
I have now managed to speak with one of the directors and he informs me
that the overtime wasn't unpaid. But rather they had not paid me for the
first few days of sickness (SSP) & used the overtime to make the hours
back-up. In all my time there I have never been paid SSP, it has always
been full pay (at least for fixed salary staff). They are now suddenly
saying that sick pay is discretionary, in which case whats the point of
being on a fixed salary???
The reason all of this has happened is that a new director joined the
company a few years ago, and is now starting to throw his weight about
by trying to screw every penny down (at employees expense).
I have had a number of problems with the company in the last few years
for example, I had a company car for about 8 years but they would not
replace it. Finally they took it off the books (sold the car) but would
not give a salary rise to compensate.
--
Munch
R
>> ;623159']Big Les Wade wrote:-
>> Munch Munch....@legalbanter.co.uk posted
>> -
>> I've been working in my current employment for 18 years. I am on a
>> salary and do not get paid for inhouse overtime unless it is
>> requested.
>> When I work off site the overtime is guaranteed as I have no choice
>> on
>> when I can finish. I have no written contract and this overtime
>> payment
>> has been in place verbally for the past 8 years.-
*That's* where your problem starts.
AFAIK, an employer has (or may have had if the regs have changed recently)
13 weeks to provide a written statement of Terms & Conditions and or a
contract stating the basics.
Look into A.C.A.S website for the information.
As for
> " I have had a number of problems with the company in the last few years
>for example, I had a company car for about 8 years but they would not
>replace it. Finally they took it off the books (sold the car) but would
>not give a salary rise to compensate."
Unless the vehicle was agreed as a part of your T & C/Contract then they can
do as they wish and have no recourse to compensate you for anything as the
vehicle was a tool for the job and not a way of increasing your
remuneration. Naturally you would have paid tax on the vehicle somewhere
down the line, so should normally be better off because you no longer would
do so, assuming you *did* actually declare it. If you are using your own
vehicle for transport you are able to claim compensation for the use
covering the costs. Mileage charge and or other costs including insurance
etc.
Again check the A.C.A.S website.
Big Les Wade
>
>I have now managed to speak with one of the directors and he informs me
>that the overtime wasn't unpaid. But rather they had not paid me for the
>first few days of sickness (SSP) & used the overtime to make the hours
>back-up. In all my time there I have never been paid SSP, it has always
>been full pay (at least for fixed salary staff). They are now suddenly
>saying that sick pay is discretionary, in which case whats the point of
>being on a fixed salary???
The same principle applies. If it has always been custom and practice to
pay you full salary for sick leave, it now forms part of your contract
of employment and cannot be made discretionary without your agreement.
>The reason all of this has happened is that a new director joined the
>company a few years ago, and is now starting to throw his weight about
>by trying to screw every penny down (at employees expense).
A common situation. Unless you push back, the process will continue. You
must either fight your corner or decide to leave.
--
Les
Sleepalot
>I have now managed to speak with one of the directors and he informs me
>that the overtime wasn't unpaid. But rather they had not paid me for the
>first few days of sickness (SSP) & used the overtime to make the hours
>back-up.
So they're saying you were sick for four days less than you really
were. (Cue warning bells.)
> In all my time there I have never been paid SSP, it has always
>been full pay (at least for fixed salary staff). They are now suddenly
>saying that sick pay is discretionary, in which case whats the point of
>being on a fixed salary???
The first "S" in "SSP" is "statutory", ie. the right to sick pay is
established by an Act of Parliament. (More warning bells.)
See...
<http://www.dwp.gov.uk/lifeevent/benefits/statutory_sick_pay.asp>
"If you think your employer’s decision to not pay you SSP is wrong, or
they did not pay when they should have done, or they paid too little
and you cannot sort it out with your employer (they should give the
reasons in writing), contact the HM Revenue & Customs employee
helpline 0845 302 1479 for advice and information."
>The reason all of this has happened is that a new director joined the
>company a few years ago, and is now starting to throw his weight about
>by trying to screw every penny down (at employees expense).
>
>I have had a number of problems with the company in the last few years
>for example, I had a company car for about 8 years but they would not
>replace it. Finally they took it off the books (sold the car) but would
>not give a salary rise to compensate.
--
Sleepalot aa #1385