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Jeff Gaines
Jul 4, 2022, 7:16:37 AM7/4/22
to
Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been busy
seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me the
amount in his estimate.
The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
time to dig them out.
Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
time they move on.
If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how do
I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of those I
have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort of custom
or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over the contract I
thought I had for specific work to be done?
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
There is no reason anyone would want a computer in their home.
(Ken Olson, president Digital Equipment, 1977)
notya...@gmail.com
Jul 4, 2022, 7:50:05 AM7/4/22
to
On Monday, 4 July 2022 at 12:16:37 UTC+1, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been busy
> seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
> The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me the
> amount in his estimate.
>
> The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
> been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
> The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
> roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
> ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
> time to dig them out.
>
> Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
> and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
> time they move on.
>
> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how do
> I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of those I
> have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort of custom
> or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over the contract I
> thought I had for specific work to be done?
I expect they quoted you for two days and estimated that this is how long the job would take.
> Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been busy
> seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
> The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me the
> amount in his estimate.
>
> The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
> been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
> The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
> roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
> ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
> time to dig them out.
>
> Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
> and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
> time they move on.
>
> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how do
> I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of those I
> have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort of custom
> or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over the contract I
> thought I had for specific work to be done?
The two other jobs were clear pieces of work, so a skilled tradesman could quote accurately,
Some gardening jobs would be too - e.g. mow the lawns, but where one can't see how much work is required it would be difficult to quote for accurately or would render a sky high quote instead.
If you asked for a quote to fix a blocked drain, would you expect Dynorod to dig it all out if jetting could not clear it - e.g. due to a broken pipe?
Roland Perry
Jul 4, 2022, 8:40:44 AM7/4/22
to
In message <xn0njyoz...@news.individual.net>, at 11:16:30 on Mon,
4 Jul 2022, Jeff Gaines <jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
and they always *quote* for number of days, with the amount of work they
can complete in that time being *estimated*.
If they don't finish, then the next day they have another customer lined
up. And unlike "builders", are far more reliable at turning up the day
they said they would, rather than a day or two later with no particular
explanation for why they are late.
Oven and carpet cleaners aren't usually doing whole-day jobs (let alone
multiple-day jobs), so have more flexibility, especially because they
have to factor in some leeway of travelling time during the working day.
Did your plumber stick rigidly to the timescale quoted? My experience
with those trades is that if they don't finish by the end of the day(s)
expected, they'll try to fit you in over the next week or two when they
have other jobs that they completed early.
Which is what gardeners don't do.
--
Roland Perry
4 Jul 2022, Jeff Gaines <jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>
>Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been
>busy seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
>The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me
>the amount in his estimate.
>
>The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
>been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
>The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out
>the roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in
>the ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't
>have time to dig them out.
>
>Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
>and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after
>that time they move on.
>
>If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how
>do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of
>those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort
>of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over
>the contract I thought I had for specific work to be done?
I (and my neighbours) have some experience of gardeners cum landscapers,
>Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been
>busy seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
>The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me
>the amount in his estimate.
>
>The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
>been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
>The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out
>the roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in
>the ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't
>have time to dig them out.
>
>Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
>and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after
>that time they move on.
>
>If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how
>do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of
>those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort
>of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over
>the contract I thought I had for specific work to be done?
and they always *quote* for number of days, with the amount of work they
can complete in that time being *estimated*.
If they don't finish, then the next day they have another customer lined
up. And unlike "builders", are far more reliable at turning up the day
they said they would, rather than a day or two later with no particular
explanation for why they are late.
Oven and carpet cleaners aren't usually doing whole-day jobs (let alone
multiple-day jobs), so have more flexibility, especially because they
have to factor in some leeway of travelling time during the working day.
Did your plumber stick rigidly to the timescale quoted? My experience
with those trades is that if they don't finish by the end of the day(s)
expected, they'll try to fit you in over the next week or two when they
have other jobs that they completed early.
Which is what gardeners don't do.
--
Roland Perry
Norman Wells
Jul 4, 2022, 9:40:36 AM7/4/22
to
On 04/07/2022 12:16, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
> Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been
> busy seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
> The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me
> the amount in his estimate.
>
> The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
> been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
> The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
> roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
> ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
> time to dig them out.
>
> Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
> and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
> time they move on.
>
> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how
> do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of
> those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort
> of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over
> the contract I thought I had for specific work to be done?
There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best to
>
> Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been
> busy seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
> The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me
> the amount in his estimate.
>
> The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
> been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
> The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
> roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
> ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
> time to dig them out.
>
> Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
> and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
> time they move on.
>
> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how
> do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of
> those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort
> of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over
> the contract I thought I had for specific work to be done?
know what you've got:
"A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept a
quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price unless
you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while it is
underway".
https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/home-renovation-repair/estimates-quotes/#:~:text=An%20estimate%20is%20a%20best,the%20work%20for%20that%20price
An estimate on the other hand is just that, nothing more than just a
best guess.
The Todal
Jul 7, 2022, 10:33:33 AM7/7/22
to
On 04/07/2022 12:16, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
>
> Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been
> busy seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
> The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me
> the amount in his estimate.
>
> The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
> been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
> The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
> roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
> ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
> time to dig them out.
>
> Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
> and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
> time they move on.
>
> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how
> do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of
> those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort
> of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over
> the contract I thought I had for specific work to be done?
>
I daresay that many gardeners charge by the hour or by the day, but if
> busy seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
> The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me
> the amount in his estimate.
>
> The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
> been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
> The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
> roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
> ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
> time to dig them out.
>
> Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
> and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
> time they move on.
>
> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how
> do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of
> those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort
> of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over
> the contract I thought I had for specific work to be done?
>
someone says that they will remove half a dozen bushes for a particular
price, that's the contract you have with them and I would be annoyed too
if they said that they ran out of time to do the job.
I doubt if you would want to sue them, so the lesson to be learned is
not to use those gardeners again. At best, they are rubbish at
estimating how long a gardening job will take and allowing sufficient
time or pricing the job accurately.
Roland Perry
Jul 7, 2022, 10:33:33 AM7/7/22
to
In message <jig7sl...@mid.individual.net>, at 14:22:29 on Mon, 4 Jul
2022, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best to
>know what you've got:
>
>"A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept a
>quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price
>unless you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while
>it is underway".
My experience of builders is you'd probably have to "see them in court"
to enforce that. Meanwhile your building project is stalled.
Most recent version: builder came back saying in effect they'd
mis-quoted, and to comply with building regs they now think they'd need
to do a specific additional £2k of work. An additional cost they were
not prepared to eat.
--
Roland Perry
2022, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best to
>know what you've got:
>
>"A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept a
>quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price
>unless you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while
>it is underway".
to enforce that. Meanwhile your building project is stalled.
Most recent version: builder came back saying in effect they'd
mis-quoted, and to comply with building regs they now think they'd need
to do a specific additional £2k of work. An additional cost they were
not prepared to eat.
--
Roland Perry
Jeff Gaines
Jul 7, 2022, 10:33:34 AM7/7/22
to
On 04/07/2022 in message <zYRpASHV...@perry.uk> Roland Perry wrote:
>>If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how do
>>I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of those I
>>have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort of custom
>>or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over the contract I
>>thought I had for specific work to be done?
>
>I (and my neighbours) have some experience of gardeners cum landscapers,
>and they always quote for number of days, with the amount of work they can
>>If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how do
>>I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of those I
>>have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort of custom
>>or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over the contract I
>>thought I had for specific work to be done?
>
>I (and my neighbours) have some experience of gardeners cum landscapers,
>complete in that time being estimated.
Interesting, the first one quoted for a list of work but stopped when from
his viewpoint he had run out of time.
>Did your plumber stick rigidly to the timescale quoted? My experience with
>those trades is that if they don't finish by the end of the day(s)
>expected, they'll try to fit you in over the next week or two when they
>have other jobs that they completed early.
on time, and invoiced what he had quoted.
In view of your comments do you feel that the way your gardener works
would be seen as an accepted practice/custom?
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
expect to sit.
The Todal
Jul 7, 2022, 10:33:35 AM7/7/22
to
On 04/07/2022 12:16, Jeff Gaines wrote:
>
>
> Having moved into a new (to me) property a few months ago I have been
> busy seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
> The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me
> the amount in his estimate.
>
> The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
> been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
> The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
> roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
> ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
> time to dig them out.
>
> Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
> and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
> time they move on.
>
> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how
> do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of
> those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort
> of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over
> the contract I thought I had for specific work to be done?
>
> busy seeking contractors to help with maintenance/repairs.
>
> The plumber quoted to extend/update the heating system and invoiced me
> the amount in his estimate.
>
> The chap who cleaned the oven did the same, even though I doubt it had
> been cleaned for years, ditto the chap who cleaned the carpets.
>
> The gardener quoted for removing half a dozen bushes and digging out the
> roots. At the end of the second day there were still some roots in the
> ground but he said he had only allowed for two days work so didn't have
> time to dig them out.
>
> Since then I have had quotes from other gardeners for a variety of jobs
> and they always quote on how many days, the implication being after that
> time they move on.
>
> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how
> do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of
> those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort
> of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over
> the contract I thought I had for specific work to be done?
>
Jeff Gaines
Jul 7, 2022, 10:33:35 AM7/7/22
to
On 04/07/2022 in message
<73f8a887-e66f-4602...@googlegroups.com>
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
<73f8a887-e66f-4602...@googlegroups.com>
notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>If you asked for a quote to fix a blocked drain, would you expect Dynorod
>to dig it all out if jetting could not clear it - e.g. due to a broken
>pipe?
It would depend on what he quoted for up front.
>If you asked for a quote to fix a blocked drain, would you expect Dynorod
>to dig it all out if jetting could not clear it - e.g. due to a broken
>pipe?
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Jeff Gaines
Jul 7, 2022, 10:33:35 AM7/7/22
to
On 04/07/2022 in message <jig7sl...@mid.individual.net> Norman Wells
wrote:
>>If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how do
>>I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of those I
>>have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort of custom
>>or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over the contract
>>I thought I had for specific work to be done?
>
>There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best to know
>what you've got:
>
>"A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept a
>quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price unless
>you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while it is
>underway".
>
>https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/home-renovation-repair/estimates-quotes/#:~:text=An%20estimate%20is%20a%20best,the%20work%20for%20that%20price
As much as I like New Zealand and admire Jacinda Ardern (except for her
politics) I doubt their law applies here :-)
>An estimate on the other hand is just that, nothing more than just a best
>guess.
In my 20 years of drafting/checking contracts and dealing with disputes
the difference between a quote and an estimate was never raised. It always
strikes me as a discussion point for the pub more than anything else!
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
All things being equal, fat people use more soap
wrote:
>>If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work how do
>>I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all of those I
>>have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it some sort of custom
>>or practice for gardeners and would it take precedence over the contract
>>I thought I had for specific work to be done?
>
>There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best to know
>what you've got:
>
>"A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept a
>quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price unless
>you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while it is
>underway".
>
>https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/home-renovation-repair/estimates-quotes/#:~:text=An%20estimate%20is%20a%20best,the%20work%20for%20that%20price
politics) I doubt their law applies here :-)
>An estimate on the other hand is just that, nothing more than just a best
>guess.
the difference between a quote and an estimate was never raised. It always
strikes me as a discussion point for the pub more than anything else!
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Roland Perry
Jul 7, 2022, 10:33:35 AM7/7/22
to
In message <jig7sl...@mid.individual.net>, at 14:22:29 on Mon, 4 Jul
2022, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
2022, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>"A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept a
>quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price
>unless you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while
>it is underway".
Finding unexpected extra-difficult roots might be a change of scope.
>quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price
>unless you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while
>it is underway".
--
Roland Perry
Norman Wells
Jul 7, 2022, 1:35:37 PM7/7/22
to
their contract with you, and you could, if you insisted, force them to
perform their part of it.
But of course any contract can be re-negotiated if the parties agree.
Norman Wells
Jul 7, 2022, 1:35:54 PM7/7/22
to
On 04/07/2022 20:06, Jeff Gaines wrote:
> On 04/07/2022 in message <jig7sl...@mid.individual.net> Norman Wells
> wrote:
>
>>> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work
>>> how do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all
>>> of those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it
>>> some sort of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take
>>> precedence over the contract I thought I had for specific work to be
>>> done?
>>
>> There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best to
>> know what you've got:
>>
>> "A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept a
>> quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price
>> unless you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while
>> it is underway".
>>
>> https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/home-renovation-repair/estimates-quotes/#:~:text=An%20estimate%20is%20a%20best,the%20work%20for%20that%20price
>>
>
> As much as I like New Zealand and admire Jacinda Ardern (except for her
> politics) I doubt their law applies here :-)
Why do you doubt it? The legal systems of both the UK and New Zealand
> On 04/07/2022 in message <jig7sl...@mid.individual.net> Norman Wells
> wrote:
>
>>> If I thought the gardener quoted to do a specific set of jobs/work
>>> how do I stand if he just stops after the time he allowed? Since all
>>> of those I have contacted so far seem to work the same way is it
>>> some sort of custom or practice for gardeners and would it take
>>> precedence over the contract I thought I had for specific work to be
>>> done?
>>
>> There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best to
>> know what you've got:
>>
>> "A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept a
>> quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed price
>> unless you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes while
>> it is underway".
>>
>> https://www.consumerprotection.govt.nz/help-product-service/home-renovation-repair/estimates-quotes/#:~:text=An%20estimate%20is%20a%20best,the%20work%20for%20that%20price
>>
>
> As much as I like New Zealand and admire Jacinda Ardern (except for her
> politics) I doubt their law applies here :-)
are virtually identical.
>> An estimate on the other hand is just that, nothing more than just a
>> best guess.
>
> In my 20 years of drafting/checking contracts and dealing with disputes
> the difference between a quote and an estimate was never raised. It
> always strikes me as a discussion point for the pub more than anything
> else!
if you don't.
Jeff Gaines
Jul 7, 2022, 3:47:52 PM7/7/22
to
On 07/07/2022 in message <jioih9...@mid.individual.net> Norman Wells
wrote:
>>As much as I like New Zealand and admire Jacinda Ardern (except for her
>>politics) I doubt their law applies here :-)
>
>Why do you doubt it? The legal systems of both the UK and New Zealand are
>virtually identical.
What? Are you seriously suggesting that New Zealand law applies to the UK?
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
Politics is the art of looking for trouble, finding it whether it exists
or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.
wrote:
>>As much as I like New Zealand and admire Jacinda Ardern (except for her
>>politics) I doubt their law applies here :-)
>
>Why do you doubt it? The legal systems of both the UK and New Zealand are
>virtually identical.
--
Jeff Gaines Dorset UK
or not, diagnosing it incorrectly, and applying the wrong remedies.
Roland Perry
Jul 8, 2022, 1:29:31 AM7/8/22
to
In message <xn0njz19...@news.individual.net>, at 19:01:49 on Mon,
Yes, I would. And if things go faster than predicted, the gardener might
do some "extra" tidying up, or go home early.
--
Roland Perry
4 Jul 2022, Jeff Gaines <jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
do some "extra" tidying up, or go home early.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Jul 8, 2022, 1:29:33 AM7/8/22
to
In message <xn0njz13...@news.individual.net>, at 18:58:23 on Mon,
but not doing repairs. Or removing blockages which are themselves
collapsed pipes, unless their standard equipment does that anyway.
So, for example, if the blockage was caused by material catching on a
section of broken pipe, they might be able to flush away the debris, but
will than advise the client that it will simply recur unless they get a
builder in to repair the pipe.
--
Roland Perry
4 Jul 2022, Jeff Gaines <jgaines...@yahoo.co.uk> remarked:
>On 04/07/2022 in message
><73f8a887-e66f-4602...@googlegroups.com>
>notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>If you asked for a quote to fix a blocked drain, would you expect
>>Dynorod to dig it all out if jetting could not clear it - e.g. due to
>>a broken pipe?
>
>It would depend on what he quoted for up front.
Dynorod (and clones) quote for inspecting drains and clearing blockages,
><73f8a887-e66f-4602...@googlegroups.com>
>notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>>If you asked for a quote to fix a blocked drain, would you expect
>>Dynorod to dig it all out if jetting could not clear it - e.g. due to
>>a broken pipe?
>
>It would depend on what he quoted for up front.
but not doing repairs. Or removing blockages which are themselves
collapsed pipes, unless their standard equipment does that anyway.
So, for example, if the blockage was caused by material catching on a
section of broken pipe, they might be able to flush away the debris, but
will than advise the client that it will simply recur unless they get a
builder in to repair the pipe.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Jul 8, 2022, 1:39:28 AM7/8/22
to
In message <jioia9...@mid.individual.net>, at 18:09:29 on Thu, 7 Jul
practice they would walk off the job and you'd spend years in court,
with the project stalled, and in the unlikely event you ended up with a
court order that they should do the work, how likely is it they'd
perform it gracefully.
>But of course any contract can be re-negotiated if the parties agree.
Contracts are mainly about "what happens if it all goes wrong".
--
Roland Perry
2022, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>On 06/07/2022 07:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <jig7sl...@mid.individual.net>, at 14:22:29 on Mon, 4
>>Jul 2022, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>>
>>> There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best
>>>to know what you've got:
>>>
>>> "A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept
>>>a quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed
>>>price unless you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes
>>>while it is underway".
>> My experience of builders is you'd probably have to "see them in
>>court" to enforce that. Meanwhile your building project is stalled.
>> Most recent version: builder came back saying in effect they'd
>>mis-quoted, and to comply with building regs they now think they'd
>>need to do a specific additional £2k of work. An additional cost they
>On 06/07/2022 07:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <jig7sl...@mid.individual.net>, at 14:22:29 on Mon, 4
>>Jul 2022, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>>
>>> There's a difference between a quote and an estimate, so it's best
>>>to know what you've got:
>>>
>>> "A quote is an offer to do a job for an exact price. Once you accept
>>>a quote, the contractor can’t charge you more than the agreed
>>>price unless you agree to extra work, or the scope of the job changes
>>>while it is underway".
>> My experience of builders is you'd probably have to "see them in
>>court" to enforce that. Meanwhile your building project is stalled.
>> Most recent version: builder came back saying in effect they'd
>>mis-quoted, and to comply with building regs they now think they'd
>>need to do a specific additional £2k of work. An additional cost they
>>not prepared to eat.
>
>Then, if it was a quote rather than an estimate, they are in breach of
>their contract with you, and you could, if you insisted, force them to
>perform their part of it.
It would be a classic case of winning a battle but losing the war. In
>
>Then, if it was a quote rather than an estimate, they are in breach of
>their contract with you, and you could, if you insisted, force them to
>perform their part of it.
practice they would walk off the job and you'd spend years in court,
with the project stalled, and in the unlikely event you ended up with a
court order that they should do the work, how likely is it they'd
perform it gracefully.
>But of course any contract can be re-negotiated if the parties agree.
--
Roland Perry
Roland Perry
Jul 8, 2022, 1:39:29 AM7/8/22
to
In message <jil58d...@mid.individual.net>, at 11:08:12 on Wed, 6 Jul
2022, The Todal <the_...@icloud.com> remarked:
In practice would you rather they properly removed five, or botched the
job for all six?
--
Roland Perry
2022, The Todal <the_...@icloud.com> remarked:
job for all six?
--
Roland Perry
Norman Wells
Jul 8, 2022, 6:12:33 AM7/8/22
to
pile of poo if the other side can't or won't perform their part of it.
So, having one doesn't really improve your position. You're still left
with having to re-negotiate a new deal (and doubtless pay more) in order
to get the job done.
It's an intractable problem, and it's why we as a nation end up paying
multiple times what we agreed originally for things like new destroyers,
HS2, Crossrail etc ad infinitum.
The system we have at the moment is a charter for unscrupulous
suppliers. Quote low, get the job accepted and started, then inflate
like mad because you know the customer will not back out half way through.
What's the answer?
The Todal
Jul 8, 2022, 6:38:40 AM7/8/22
to
all your 4 defective tyres but failed to balance them and left all the
wheelnuts loose, or replaced three tyres properly?
My experience with gardeners is that they are unskilled people hoping to
make easy money. We regularly had gardeners every week and I watched
while one of them self-importantly used his garden vac to make the patio
look nice, because the job I wanted him to do - weeding - was too much
like hard work. The older gardeners generally whinge about their back pain.
I needed a broken fence replaced a few years ago, and a gardener in his
20s said he would do it for a price. But extracting the old rotten post
took him most of a day and he clearly had neither the tools nor the
skill to do it. He didn't want to admit defeat, and by the end of the
day we paid him extra because we felt sorry for him. The new post that
he supplied and fitted became wobbly and had to be replaced a couple of
years later.
GB
Jul 8, 2022, 1:56:34 PM7/8/22
to
On 08/07/2022 11:36, The Todal wrote:
> My experience with gardeners is that they are unskilled people hoping to
> make easy money.
It certainly isn't an easy job, if done properly, and the pay is pretty
> My experience with gardeners is that they are unskilled people hoping to
> make easy money.
abysmal.
Roland Perry
Jul 9, 2022, 1:12:26 AM7/9/22
to
In message <jiqfmc...@mid.individual.net>, at 11:36:59 on Fri, 8 Jul
That's not an appropriate analogy, because garages quote a price per
tyre, not a price per minute. And apart from the obvious safety issues,
replacing tyres is a very distinct task, whereas "weeding the garden" is
much less quantifiable
>My experience with gardeners is that they are unskilled people hoping
>to make easy money. We regularly had gardeners every week and I watched
>while one of them self-importantly used his garden vac to make the
>patio look nice, because the job I wanted him to do - weeding - was too
>much like hard work. The older gardeners generally whinge about their
>back pain.
We probably need a new word for people who do routine maintenance,
compared to one who has skills in choosing the right plants for the soil
and lighting, knows when is the right time to prune various shrubs, and
so on. "Lansdcaper" isn't quite right for the latter, because I
associate them more with installing (including groundworks) from
scratch.
It's not just gardeners where there are many almost "unenthusiastic"
amateurs playing at it, interior decorating includes individuals like
that as well.
>I needed a broken fence replaced a few years ago, and a gardener in his
>20s said he would do it for a price. But extracting the old rotten post
>took him most of a day and he clearly had neither the tools nor the
>skill to do it. He didn't want to admit defeat, and by the end of the
>day we paid him extra because we felt sorry for him. The new post that
>he supplied and fitted became wobbly and had to be replaced a couple of
>years later.
Another thing I find is a reluctance for some workers to re-use existing
materials on site, but want to supply new. While you wouldn't want a
sub-standard fence post to be installed, it's something I happen to have
quite a few perfectly good ones laying around. As well as sand/cement
from previous jobs.
--
Roland Perry
tyre, not a price per minute. And apart from the obvious safety issues,
replacing tyres is a very distinct task, whereas "weeding the garden" is
much less quantifiable
>My experience with gardeners is that they are unskilled people hoping
>to make easy money. We regularly had gardeners every week and I watched
>while one of them self-importantly used his garden vac to make the
>patio look nice, because the job I wanted him to do - weeding - was too
>much like hard work. The older gardeners generally whinge about their
>back pain.
compared to one who has skills in choosing the right plants for the soil
and lighting, knows when is the right time to prune various shrubs, and
so on. "Lansdcaper" isn't quite right for the latter, because I
associate them more with installing (including groundworks) from
scratch.
It's not just gardeners where there are many almost "unenthusiastic"
amateurs playing at it, interior decorating includes individuals like
that as well.
>I needed a broken fence replaced a few years ago, and a gardener in his
>20s said he would do it for a price. But extracting the old rotten post
>took him most of a day and he clearly had neither the tools nor the
>skill to do it. He didn't want to admit defeat, and by the end of the
>day we paid him extra because we felt sorry for him. The new post that
>he supplied and fitted became wobbly and had to be replaced a couple of
>years later.
materials on site, but want to supply new. While you wouldn't want a
sub-standard fence post to be installed, it's something I happen to have
quite a few perfectly good ones laying around. As well as sand/cement
from previous jobs.
--
Roland Perry
RustyHinge
Jul 9, 2022, 4:28:30 PM7/9/22
to
a bit of gardening to keep body and soul together. It was quite
enjoyable, but I didn't make enough to trouble HMG with any taxing
questions.
--
Rusty Hinge
To err is human. To really foul things up requires a computer and the BOFH.
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