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EU Lorry drivers
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notya...@gmail.com
Sep 27, 2021, 11:19:44 AM9/27/21
to
The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to 5,000 12 week visas.
Now there is a chronic shortage of HGV drivers in the EU, so any decent driver can probably find work where s/he is.
To come the the UK they will need:
1. To get a visa (cost ?)
2. Have a payroll job and pay tax and NI PAYE.
a) IR 35 means they have to go on payroll and can't be seconded from EU hauliers.
b) Probably wait till August 2022 for their tax rebate.
3. Not bring their partner nor family with them.
4. Leave by Xmas eve, leaving them jobless until at least the New Year.
5. Have to stay in their cab or B&B accommodation.
It seems to me that this scheme was designed to find no takers.
BTW I happened to fill up on Friday 17th September. The Tesco petrol station was open, but does not sell premium diesel and some pumps were off. The Shell station was out of regular diesel and some petrol pumps were off, but fortunately had premium diesel (at £1.53p/l). The Shell one used to be 10km from their refinery, but they sold it off for housing.
There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
Now there is a chronic shortage of HGV drivers in the EU, so any decent driver can probably find work where s/he is.
To come the the UK they will need:
1. To get a visa (cost ?)
2. Have a payroll job and pay tax and NI PAYE.
a) IR 35 means they have to go on payroll and can't be seconded from EU hauliers.
b) Probably wait till August 2022 for their tax rebate.
3. Not bring their partner nor family with them.
4. Leave by Xmas eve, leaving them jobless until at least the New Year.
5. Have to stay in their cab or B&B accommodation.
It seems to me that this scheme was designed to find no takers.
BTW I happened to fill up on Friday 17th September. The Tesco petrol station was open, but does not sell premium diesel and some pumps were off. The Shell station was out of regular diesel and some petrol pumps were off, but fortunately had premium diesel (at £1.53p/l). The Shell one used to be 10km from their refinery, but they sold it off for housing.
There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
Andy Burns
Sep 27, 2021, 11:27:31 AM9/27/21
to
notya...@gmail.com wrote:
> There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
Prior to "DON'T PANIC!" day, the only shortage I encountered was E5/99RON at the
> There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
local Tesco, I assumed they were prioritising "normal" petrol and diesel.
Nick Odell
Sep 27, 2021, 12:10:05 PM9/27/21
to
https://ifunny.co/picture/suffolk-sperm-bank-breaking-news-sperm-banks-running-low-as-cdT51vKx8?s=cl
Nick
Martin Brown
Sep 27, 2021, 12:10:54 PM9/27/21
to
On 27/09/2021 15:30, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to 5,000 12 week visas.
I can't see anyone already in a decent job even considering it for such
> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to 5,000 12 week visas.
a short period of time. If it had been a 6 months or longer gig they
might just possibly have got some takers that were worth having.
> Now there is a chronic shortage of HGV drivers in the EU, so any decent driver can probably find work where s/he is.
>
> To come the the UK they will need:
> 1. To get a visa (cost ?)
> 2. Have a payroll job and pay tax and NI PAYE.
> a) IR 35 means they have to go on payroll and can't be seconded from EU hauliers.
> b) Probably wait till August 2022 for their tax rebate.
> 3. Not bring their partner nor family with them.
> 4. Leave by Xmas eve, leaving them jobless until at least the New Year.
> 5. Have to stay in their cab or B&B accommodation.
>
> It seems to me that this scheme was designed to find no takers.
cannot find a position on the continent where conditions are better. By
the time all the paperwork for them to actually start working in the UK
is sorted out they might start paid work just in time to go home again.
> There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
I've just put diesel into the petrol bulk tank or vice versa.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Ian Jackson
Sep 27, 2021, 3:22:43 PM9/27/21
to
In message <sit3t6$sug$1...@dont-email.me>, Jethro_uk
<jeth...@hotmailbin.com> writes
>made it *very* clear, no amount of visas are going to tempt them here.
This morning, LBC's James o'Brien had a long chat with a Polish
truck-driver cum political writer on his programme. The driver said
exactly the same. While there was some shortage drivers in the EU (50k
total?), there were no shortages in the shops. As for getting some to
come over here short-term, essentially it was 'no chance'. It would all
be too much hassle. Apart from getting more respect and better
facilities in Europe, after the fiasco of last Christmas, and the way
they were trapped at Manston Airport and Dover, it was unlikely that
many would want to risk a repeat. [My note: Admittedly this was really
not of the UK's making. It was really the French closing their borders.]
--
Ian
<jeth...@hotmailbin.com> writes
>On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 07:30:06 -0700, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to
>> 5,000 12 week visas.
>
>As the gentleman interviewed on R4 this morning on behalf of EU drivers
>
>> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to
>> 5,000 12 week visas.
>
>made it *very* clear, no amount of visas are going to tempt them here.
This morning, LBC's James o'Brien had a long chat with a Polish
truck-driver cum political writer on his programme. The driver said
exactly the same. While there was some shortage drivers in the EU (50k
total?), there were no shortages in the shops. As for getting some to
come over here short-term, essentially it was 'no chance'. It would all
be too much hassle. Apart from getting more respect and better
facilities in Europe, after the fiasco of last Christmas, and the way
they were trapped at Manston Airport and Dover, it was unlikely that
many would want to risk a repeat. [My note: Admittedly this was really
not of the UK's making. It was really the French closing their borders.]
--
Ian
Michael Chare
Sep 27, 2021, 9:22:07 PM9/27/21
to
On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
> On 27/09/2021 15:30, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up
>> to 5,000 12 week visas.
>
> I can't see anyone already in a decent job even considering it for such
> a short period of time. If it had been a 6 months or longer gig they
> might just possibly have got some takers that were worth having.
>
The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
> On 27/09/2021 15:30, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up
>> to 5,000 12 week visas.
>
> I can't see anyone already in a decent job even considering it for such
> a short period of time. If it had been a 6 months or longer gig they
> might just possibly have got some takers that were worth having.
>
have better working conditions which will only lead to higher prices for
everyone as the employers will have to recover their increased costs.
Certainly some Labour MPs think likewise.
--
Michael Chare
Martin Brown
Sep 28, 2021, 4:27:35 AM9/28/21
to
We are in a nasty deregulation race to the bottom despite what they say.
And the irony is that people who will suffer the most voted for it.
> Certainly some Labour MPs think likewise.
to put up any useful opposition to the governments crazy "plans".
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Ian Jackson
Sep 28, 2021, 4:56:04 AM9/28/21
to
In message <ib$Pzmapn...@brattleho.plus.com>, Ian Jackson
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> writes
Fortunately, in the DIY ng Pamela, has provided the link to this
discussion. For those who occasionally like to hear things from the
horse's mouth (instead, asJ o'B often says, 'from Auntie Doris's
Facebook page'), here it is:
<https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/polish-hgv-driver-sa
ys-uk-temporary-visa-offer-amusing/>
or
https://tinyurl.com/jrfcmfbw
--
Ian
<ianREMOVET...@g3ohx.co.uk> writes
discussion. For those who occasionally like to hear things from the
horse's mouth (instead, asJ o'B often says, 'from Auntie Doris's
Facebook page'), here it is:
<https://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/polish-hgv-driver-sa
ys-uk-temporary-visa-offer-amusing/>
or
https://tinyurl.com/jrfcmfbw
--
Ian
Spike
Sep 28, 2021, 5:54:28 AM9/28/21
to
On 27/09/2021 18:52, Jethro_uk wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 07:30:06 -0700, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 07:30:06 -0700, notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to
>> 5,000 12 week visas.
>> 5,000 12 week visas.
> As the gentleman interviewed on R4 this morning on behalf of EU drivers
> made it *very* clear, no amount of visas are going to tempt them here.
Possibly not. However, high wages combined with a heavily-biassed cost
> made it *very* clear, no amount of visas are going to tempt them here.
of living difference that multiplies GBPS into PLN at a rate of about
4.5 would give a £1500/wk driver the equivalent of £6000 a week to send
home. Do that for three months, and that's a lot of Tyskie beer he can
lay in for Christmas. Do zobaczenia, anglio!
--
Spike
Spike
Sep 28, 2021, 6:41:06 AM9/28/21
to
On 27/09/2021 19:22, Ian Jackson wrote:
> This morning, LBC's James o'Brien had a long chat with a Polish
> truck-driver cum political writer on his programme. The driver said
> exactly the same. While there was some shortage drivers in the EU (50k
> total?), there were no shortages in the shops. As for getting some to
> come over here short-term, essentially it was 'no chance'. It would all
> be too much hassle. Apart from getting more respect and better
> facilities in Europe, after the fiasco of last Christmas, and the way
> they were trapped at Manston Airport and Dover, it was unlikely that
> many would want to risk a repeat. [My note: Admittedly this was really
> not of the UK's making. It was really the French closing their borders.]
Can you think of any reason why a Polish driver-cum-political-writer in
> This morning, LBC's James o'Brien had a long chat with a Polish
> truck-driver cum political writer on his programme. The driver said
> exactly the same. While there was some shortage drivers in the EU (50k
> total?), there were no shortages in the shops. As for getting some to
> come over here short-term, essentially it was 'no chance'. It would all
> be too much hassle. Apart from getting more respect and better
> facilities in Europe, after the fiasco of last Christmas, and the way
> they were trapped at Manston Airport and Dover, it was unlikely that
> many would want to risk a repeat. [My note: Admittedly this was really
> not of the UK's making. It was really the French closing their borders.]
driver-short Poland might want to talk down the benefits to Polish
drivers of the UK visa scheme?
--
Spike
kat
Sep 28, 2021, 8:34:32 AM9/28/21
to
On 28/09/2021 01:28, Michael Chare wrote:
--
kat
>^..^<
notya...@gmail.com
Sep 28, 2021, 8:41:21 AM9/28/21
to
Today they are talking about getting in 150 army tanker drivers -
https://www.itv.com/news/2021-09-27/fuel-shortage-army-tanker-drivers-to-be-put-on-standby-amid-supply-issues
Polish Army?
Just like 1940 when we got in 145 Polish pilots, who arguably tipped the balance in our favour during the Battle of Britain. Nice precedent.
Caecilius
Sep 28, 2021, 9:39:05 AM9/28/21
to
On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 03:45:44 -0700 (PDT), "notya...@gmail.com"
<notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, 27 September 2021 at 16:27:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
>> notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
>> Prior to "DON'T PANIC!" day, the only shortage I encountered was E5/99RON at the
>> local Tesco, I assumed they were prioritising "normal" petrol and diesel.
>
>Ah well government minister says "No need to panic buy" = "If you see a queue join it!".
When the prime minister is known to lie whenever it's more convenient
<notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Monday, 27 September 2021 at 16:27:31 UTC+1, Andy Burns wrote:
>> notya...@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
>> Prior to "DON'T PANIC!" day, the only shortage I encountered was E5/99RON at the
>> local Tesco, I assumed they were prioritising "normal" petrol and diesel.
>
>Ah well government minister says "No need to panic buy" = "If you see a queue join it!".
than telling the truth, it's not surprising that people start to
distrust the government.
I'm not saying that this is the first government where ministers have
lied, but it seems to be the first one I can remember that lies so
regularly and blatently. Even if they're telling the truth this time
who can blame people for not believing them?
notya...@gmail.com
Sep 28, 2021, 5:01:45 PM9/28/21
to
The Polish drivers would want redress for unfair dismissal, being confined [unpaid] to an insanitary camp for a week over Xmas, and much else.
Of course it is a Polish journalist's paid job to point out that Polish drivers would now have to fill in mountains of forms, pay loads of tax that they might get back next summer, can't bring their families with them and must leave in less than twelve weeks.
JNugent
Sep 28, 2021, 7:27:47 PM9/28/21
to
I think I heard something about a Prices and Incomes Policy.
Martin Harran
Sep 30, 2021, 1:15:36 PM9/30/21
to
Jon Ribbens
Sep 30, 2021, 2:26:37 PM9/30/21
to
On 2021-09-30, Martin Harran <martin...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Cartoon of the wek (note: no legal content whatsoever)
>
> https://imgur.com/zHxxrrr
ObLegal: of course, the Queen is the one person who *could* just go and
> Cartoon of the wek (note: no legal content whatsoever)
>
> https://imgur.com/zHxxrrr
drive an HGV without the licence and certification that anyone else
would need...
Fredxx
Sep 30, 2021, 7:16:38 PM9/30/21
to
On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on the
basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay, so if the
Tories increase the working wage Labour won't have a chance.
My 2p worth, though I don't expect many politicians to have level of
foresight!
> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>
>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> [quoted text muted]
>
>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>
>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>> have better working conditions
>
> I see no evidence of that.
>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>> have better working conditions
>
The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on the
basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay, so if the
Tories increase the working wage Labour won't have a chance.
My 2p worth, though I don't expect many politicians to have level of
foresight!
Vir Campestris
Sep 30, 2021, 7:18:02 PM9/30/21
to
On 27/09/2021 20:22, Ian Jackson wrote:
> This morning, LBC's James o'Brien had a long chat with a Polish
> truck-driver cum political writer on his programme. The driver said
> exactly the same. While there was some shortage drivers in the EU (50k
> total?), there were no shortages in the shops. As for getting some to
> come over here short-term, essentially it was 'no chance'. It would all
> be too much hassle. Apart from getting more respect and better
> facilities in Europe, after the fiasco of last Christmas, and the way
> they were trapped at Manston Airport and Dover, it was unlikely that
> many would want to risk a repeat. [My note: Admittedly this was really
> not of the UK's making. It was really the French closing their borders.]
A few more than 50k.
> This morning, LBC's James o'Brien had a long chat with a Polish
> truck-driver cum political writer on his programme. The driver said
> exactly the same. While there was some shortage drivers in the EU (50k
> total?), there were no shortages in the shops. As for getting some to
> come over here short-term, essentially it was 'no chance'. It would all
> be too much hassle. Apart from getting more respect and better
> facilities in Europe, after the fiasco of last Christmas, and the way
> they were trapped at Manston Airport and Dover, it was unlikely that
> many would want to risk a repeat. [My note: Admittedly this was really
> not of the UK's making. It was really the French closing their borders.]
<https://www.politico.eu/article/europes-looming-truck-driver-shortage-trucker-haulier-brexit-hgv/>
suggests it's 120,000 in Poland alone.
Andy
Roland Perry
Oct 1, 2021, 2:44:29 AM10/1/21
to
In message <sj4snc$oll$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:52 on Thu, 30 Sep
2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
already way above any statutory minimum.
One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage for
HGV drivers is £36k.
>so if the Tories increase the working wage Labour won't have a chance.
Labour apparently wants a minimum wage that's above the current average
wage (cue mathematicians rolling their eyes irrespective of politics)
>My 2p worth, though I don't expect many politicians to have level of
>foresight!
--
Roland Perry
2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>
>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>>> have better working conditions
>> I see no evidence of that.
>
>The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on the
>basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>
>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>
>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>>> have better working conditions
>> I see no evidence of that.
>
>The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on the
>basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
already way above any statutory minimum.
One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage for
HGV drivers is £36k.
>so if the Tories increase the working wage Labour won't have a chance.
wage (cue mathematicians rolling their eyes irrespective of politics)
>My 2p worth, though I don't expect many politicians to have level of
>foresight!
Roland Perry
Ian Jackson
Oct 1, 2021, 3:02:02 AM10/1/21
to
In message <KujrGCKA...@perry.uk>, Roland Perry
<rol...@perry.co.uk> writes
>
>The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages.
Is that a variation on "Pay peanuts - get monkeys"?
>
>>
>
--
Ian
<rol...@perry.co.uk> writes
>
>The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages.
>
>>
>
--
Ian
Algernon Goss-Custard
Oct 1, 2021, 3:56:09 AM10/1/21
to
Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> posted
--
Algernon
>In message <sj4snc$oll$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:52 on Thu, 30 Sep
>2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>>
>>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>>>> have better working conditions
>
>>> I see no evidence of that.
>>
>>The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on the
>>basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
>
>The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
>already way above any statutory minimum.
So what? What has a statutory minimum got to do with anything?
>2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>>On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>>
>>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>>>> have better working conditions
>
>>> I see no evidence of that.
>>
>>The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on the
>>basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
>
>The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
>already way above any statutory minimum.
--
Algernon
Roland Perry
Oct 1, 2021, 4:31:34 AM10/1/21
to
In message <PqDdEiE0...@invalid.com>, at 08:16:04 on Fri, 1 Oct
2021, Algernon Goss-Custard <B...@nowhere.com> remarked:
It's something the government sets (unlike the average wage of HGV
drivers).
Incidentally, what bit of Brussels legislation was it that used to fix
our minimum wages, that we could now start fiddling with (either up or
down)?
--
Roland Perry
2021, Algernon Goss-Custard <B...@nowhere.com> remarked:
drivers).
Incidentally, what bit of Brussels legislation was it that used to fix
our minimum wages, that we could now start fiddling with (either up or
down)?
--
Roland Perry
Norman Wells
Oct 1, 2021, 5:04:27 AM10/1/21
to
On 01/10/2021 07:32, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <sj4snc$oll$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:52 on Thu, 30 Sep
> 2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>>
>>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>>>> have better working conditions
>
>>> I see no evidence of that.
>>
>> The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on the
>> basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
>
> The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
> industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
> already way above any statutory minimum.
So what? There's no statutory maximum.
> In message <sj4snc$oll$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:52 on Thu, 30 Sep
> 2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>> On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>>
>>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>>>> have better working conditions
>
>>> I see no evidence of that.
>>
>> The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on the
>> basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
>
> The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
> industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
> already way above any statutory minimum.
> One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
> offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
> According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage for
> HGV drivers is £36k.
you need. IF you do, you will. If you're become addicted to cheap as
chips east European labour which is no longer available, and can't bear
to pay any more than you did when it was here, you won't, and you put
your whole business in jeopardy.
That's commerce. And it applies to farms as well.
Roland Perry
Oct 1, 2021, 5:31:42 AM10/1/21
to
In message <irnubp...@mid.individual.net>, at 09:14:48 on Fri, 1 Oct
2021, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
than being silent on the matter.
>> One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
>>offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
>
>That's not HGVs though.
Cite please, that HGV drivers aren't paid even more than that (which is
itself more than double minimum wage)
>> According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage for
>>HGV drivers is £36k.
>
>It's simply supply and demand. You have to pay
The consumer has to pay, because these costs trickle through.
>enough to attract whom you need. IF you do, you will. If you're
>become addicted to cheap as chips east European labour which is no
>longer available, and can't bear to pay any more than you did when it
>was here, you won't, and you put your whole business in jeopardy.
>
>That's commerce. And it applies to farms as well.
And it all creates inflation, while NHS workers are on fixed pay.
Although I saw a story in the press today that ambulance drivers are
being poached to drive trucks in the private sector. A bit of a slippery
slope there.
--
Roland Perry
2021, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>On 01/10/2021 07:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>> In message <sj4snc$oll$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:52 on Thu, 30 Sep
>>2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>>>
>>>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>>>>> have better working conditions
>>
>>>> I see no evidence of that.
>>>
>>> The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on
>>>the basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
>> The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>>industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
>>already way above any statutory minimum.
>
>So what? There's no statutory maximum.
The "so what" is that the government has suggested raising wages. Rather
>> In message <sj4snc$oll$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:52 on Thu, 30 Sep
>>2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>>> On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>>>
>>>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid more and
>>>>> have better working conditions
>>
>>>> I see no evidence of that.
>>>
>>> The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on
>>>the basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
>> The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>>industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
>>already way above any statutory minimum.
>
>So what? There's no statutory maximum.
than being silent on the matter.
>> One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
>>offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
>
>That's not HGVs though.
itself more than double minimum wage)
>> According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage for
>>HGV drivers is £36k.
>
>It's simply supply and demand. You have to pay
>enough to attract whom you need. IF you do, you will. If you're
>become addicted to cheap as chips east European labour which is no
>longer available, and can't bear to pay any more than you did when it
>was here, you won't, and you put your whole business in jeopardy.
>
>That's commerce. And it applies to farms as well.
Although I saw a story in the press today that ambulance drivers are
being poached to drive trucks in the private sector. A bit of a slippery
slope there.
--
Roland Perry
Norman Wells
Oct 1, 2021, 6:19:42 AM10/1/21
to
On 01/10/2021 10:22, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <irnubp...@mid.individual.net>, at 09:14:48 on Fri, 1 Oct
> 2021, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>> On 01/10/2021 07:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <sj4snc$oll$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:52 on Thu, 30 Sep
>>> 2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid
>>>>>> more and
>>>>>> have better working conditions
>>>
>>>>> I see no evidence of that.
>>>>
>>>> The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on
>>>> the basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
>
>>> The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>>> industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
>>> already way above any statutory minimum.
>>
>> So what? There's no statutory maximum.
>
> The "so what" is that the government has suggested raising wages. Rather
> than being silent on the matter.
It's just a recognition of supply and demand in a free market economy.
> In message <irnubp...@mid.individual.net>, at 09:14:48 on Fri, 1 Oct
> 2021, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>> On 01/10/2021 07:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>> In message <sj4snc$oll$1...@dont-email.me>, at 18:38:52 on Thu, 30 Sep
>>> 2021, Fredxx <fre...@nospam.co.uk> remarked:
>>>> On 28/09/2021 07:46, Jethro_uk wrote:
>>>>> On Tue, 28 Sep 2021 01:28:55 +0100, Michael Chare wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> On 27/09/2021 17:02, Martin Brown wrote:
>>>>>>> [quoted text muted]
>>>>>>
>>>>>> The government wants these drivers and farm workers to be paid
>>>>>> more and
>>>>>> have better working conditions
>>>
>>>>> I see no evidence of that.
>>>>
>>>> The Tories have made inroads into what were formerly red areas on
>>>> the basis of Brexit. In those places it probably was about pay,
>
>>> The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>>> industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages. But they are
>>> already way above any statutory minimum.
>>
>> So what? There's no statutory maximum.
>
> The "so what" is that the government has suggested raising wages. Rather
> than being silent on the matter.
Someone in government has obviously done Economics 101.
>>> One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
>>> offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
>>
>> That's not HGVs though.
>
> Cite please, that HGV drivers aren't paid even more than that (which is
> itself more than double minimum wage)
not HGVs. I'd have thought that was obvious.
>>> According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage for
>>> HGV drivers is £36k.
>>
>> It's simply supply and demand. You have to pay
>
> The consumer has to pay, because these costs trickle through.
goods at all. They can't have their cake and eat it.
>> enough to attract whom you need. IF you do, you will. If you're
>> become addicted to cheap as chips east European labour which is no
>> longer available, and can't bear to pay any more than you did when it
>> was here, you won't, and you put your whole business in jeopardy.
>>
>> That's commerce. And it applies to farms as well.
>
> And it all creates inflation, while NHS workers are on fixed pay.
in short supply, wages will have to rise.
> Although I saw a story in the press today that ambulance drivers are
> being poached to drive trucks in the private sector. A bit of a slippery
> slope there.
Roland Perry
Oct 1, 2021, 7:12:06 AM10/1/21
to
In message <iro4a2...@mid.individual.net>, at 10:56:17 on Fri, 1 Oct
driver.
>>>> According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage
>>>>for HGV drivers is £36k.
>>>
>>> It's simply supply and demand. You have to pay
>> The consumer has to pay, because these costs trickle through.
>
>Of course, ultimately. But the choice for consumers is not to have the
>goods at all. They can't have their cake and eat it.
The cake-stand debate is in another thread.
--
Roland Perry
>>>> One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
>>>>offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
>>>
>>> That's not HGVs though.
>> Cite please, that HGV drivers aren't paid even more than that (which
>>is itself more than double minimum wage)
>
>I wasn't arguing that, just saying that home delivery drivers drive
>vans not HGVs. I'd have thought that was obvious.
And it's also obvious that £18/hr is way over the odds for a Transit
>>>>offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
>>>
>>> That's not HGVs though.
>> Cite please, that HGV drivers aren't paid even more than that (which
>>is itself more than double minimum wage)
>
>I wasn't arguing that, just saying that home delivery drivers drive
>vans not HGVs. I'd have thought that was obvious.
driver.
>>>> According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage
>>>>for HGV drivers is £36k.
>>>
>>> It's simply supply and demand. You have to pay
>> The consumer has to pay, because these costs trickle through.
>
>Of course, ultimately. But the choice for consumers is not to have the
>goods at all. They can't have their cake and eat it.
--
Roland Perry
JNugent
Oct 1, 2021, 10:58:04 AM10/1/21
to
On 01/10/2021 08:01 am, Ian Jackson wrote:
> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes
>
>> The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>> industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages.
> Is that a variation on "Pay peanuts - get monkeys"?
The best strategy is raisin currant wages and not accepting any sour grapes.
> Roland Perry <rol...@perry.co.uk> writes
>
>> The government appears to have made it clear they expect the haulage
>> industry to cure its manning shortage by raisin wages.
> Is that a variation on "Pay peanuts - get monkeys"?
Fredxx
Oct 1, 2021, 11:00:10 AM10/1/21
to
only dream of. I know of someone in the retail industry who hasn't had a
pay rise for years.
> Although I saw a story in the press today that ambulance drivers are
> being poached to drive trucks in the private sector. A bit of a slippery
> slope there.
prefer a buoyant labour market through supply and demand rather than a
result of union action.
Of course YMMV
Norman Wells
Oct 1, 2021, 11:00:41 AM10/1/21
to
On 01/10/2021 12:07, Roland Perry wrote:
> In message <iro4a2...@mid.individual.net>, at 10:56:17 on Fri, 1 Oct
> 2021, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>
>>>>> One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
>>>>> offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
>>>>
>>>> That's not HGVs though.
>
>>> Cite please, that HGV drivers aren't paid even more than that (which
>>> is itself more than double minimum wage)
>>
>> I wasn't arguing that, just saying that home delivery drivers drive
>> vans not HGVs. I'd have thought that was obvious.
>
> And it's also obvious that £18/hr is way over the odds for a Transit
> driver.
Not if they're in short supply. It's how a free market works.
> In message <iro4a2...@mid.individual.net>, at 10:56:17 on Fri, 1 Oct
> 2021, Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> remarked:
>
>>>>> One of the big supermarkets leafleted our town earlier in the week
>>>>> offering £18/hr for home-delivery drivers, for example.
>>>>
>>>> That's not HGVs though.
>
>>> Cite please, that HGV drivers aren't paid even more than that (which
>>> is itself more than double minimum wage)
>>
>> I wasn't arguing that, just saying that home delivery drivers drive
>> vans not HGVs. I'd have thought that was obvious.
>
> And it's also obvious that £18/hr is way over the odds for a Transit
> driver.
Digital Nomad
Oct 1, 2021, 2:07:03 PM10/1/21
to
100,000 drivers.
I am so relieved we are getting 150 army tanker drivers, QED problem
solved clearly.
Ian Jackson
Oct 1, 2021, 3:00:34 PM10/1/21
to
TMS320
Oct 1, 2021, 6:01:11 PM10/1/21
to
On 30/09/2021 18:15, Martin Harran wrote:
> Cartoon of the wek (note: no legal content whatsoever)
>
> https://imgur.com/zHxxrrr
She would have said 'lorry'.
> Cartoon of the wek (note: no legal content whatsoever)
>
> https://imgur.com/zHxxrrr
Martin Harran
Oct 2, 2021, 7:31:36 AM10/2/21
to
On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT), "notya...@gmail.com"
>
>To come the the UK they will need:
>1. To get a visa (cost ?)
>2. Have a payroll job and pay tax and NI PAYE.
> a) IR 35 means they have to go on payroll and can't be seconded from EU hauliers.
> b) Probably wait till August 2022 for their tax rebate.
>3. Not bring their partner nor family with them.
>4. Leave by Xmas eve, leaving them jobless until at least the New Year.
>5. Have to stay in their cab or B&B accommodation.
>
>It seems to me that this scheme was designed to find no takers.
>
>BTW I happened to fill up on Friday 17th September. The Tesco petrol station was open, but does not sell premium diesel and some pumps were off. The Shell station was out of regular diesel and some petrol pumps were off, but fortunately had premium diesel (at £1.53p/l). The Shell one used to be 10km from their refinery, but they sold it off for housing.
Europe-wide shortage of drivers, things are not so bad on the
continent:
"The situation is not the same in France or in Germany or Spain. But I
don't want to give lessons … But when you look at the proportion of
the trade relations, clearly we export around 8 per cent of our goods
to the UK. They export around 47 per cent to the EU. So the proportion
of suffering is different, maybe because of that. We face the same
constraints. We have rebuilt controls and non-tariff barriers. It's
easier to assume and take on board the consequences when you are 26,
rather than alone"
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/michel-barnier-i-told-the-truth-and-didn-t-change-the-facts-1.4688568
https://bit.ly/3D7pToq
<notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to 5,000 12 week visas.
>
>Now there is a chronic shortage of HGV drivers in the EU, so any decent driver can probably find work where s/he is.
>The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to 5,000 12 week visas.
>
>
>To come the the UK they will need:
>1. To get a visa (cost ?)
>2. Have a payroll job and pay tax and NI PAYE.
> a) IR 35 means they have to go on payroll and can't be seconded from EU hauliers.
> b) Probably wait till August 2022 for their tax rebate.
>3. Not bring their partner nor family with them.
>4. Leave by Xmas eve, leaving them jobless until at least the New Year.
>5. Have to stay in their cab or B&B accommodation.
>
>It seems to me that this scheme was designed to find no takers.
>
>BTW I happened to fill up on Friday 17th September. The Tesco petrol station was open, but does not sell premium diesel and some pumps were off. The Shell station was out of regular diesel and some petrol pumps were off, but fortunately had premium diesel (at £1.53p/l). The Shell one used to be 10km from their refinery, but they sold it off for housing.
>
>There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
Michel Barnier explaining at least part of the reason why, despite a
>There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
Europe-wide shortage of drivers, things are not so bad on the
continent:
"The situation is not the same in France or in Germany or Spain. But I
don't want to give lessons … But when you look at the proportion of
the trade relations, clearly we export around 8 per cent of our goods
to the UK. They export around 47 per cent to the EU. So the proportion
of suffering is different, maybe because of that. We face the same
constraints. We have rebuilt controls and non-tariff barriers. It's
easier to assume and take on board the consequences when you are 26,
rather than alone"
https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/michel-barnier-i-told-the-truth-and-didn-t-change-the-facts-1.4688568
https://bit.ly/3D7pToq
kat
Oct 2, 2021, 12:50:22 PM10/2/21
to
On 02/10/2021 12:09, Martin Harran wrote:
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT), "notya...@gmail.com"
> <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to 5,000 12 week visas.
>>
>> Now there is a chronic shortage of HGV drivers in the EU, so any decent driver can probably find work where s/he is.
>>
>> To come the the UK they will need:
>> 1. To get a visa (cost ?)
>> 2. Have a payroll job and pay tax and NI PAYE.
>> a) IR 35 means they have to go on payroll and can't be seconded from EU hauliers.
>> b) Probably wait till August 2022 for their tax rebate.
>> 3. Not bring their partner nor family with them.
>> 4. Leave by Xmas eve, leaving them jobless until at least the New Year.
>> 5. Have to stay in their cab or B&B accommodation.
>>
>> It seems to me that this scheme was designed to find no takers.
>>
>> BTW I happened to fill up on Friday 17th September. The Tesco petrol station was open, but does not sell premium diesel and some pumps were off. The Shell station was out of regular diesel and some petrol pumps were off, but fortunately had premium diesel (at £1.53p/l). The Shell one used to be 10km from their refinery, but they sold it off for housing.
> On Mon, 27 Sep 2021 07:30:06 -0700 (PDT), "notya...@gmail.com"
> <notya...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> The government has made a small concession an is prepared to grant up to 5,000 12 week visas.
>>
>> Now there is a chronic shortage of HGV drivers in the EU, so any decent driver can probably find work where s/he is.
>>
>> To come the the UK they will need:
>> 1. To get a visa (cost ?)
>> 2. Have a payroll job and pay tax and NI PAYE.
>> a) IR 35 means they have to go on payroll and can't be seconded from EU hauliers.
>> b) Probably wait till August 2022 for their tax rebate.
>> 3. Not bring their partner nor family with them.
>> 4. Leave by Xmas eve, leaving them jobless until at least the New Year.
>> 5. Have to stay in their cab or B&B accommodation.
>>
>> It seems to me that this scheme was designed to find no takers.
>>
>>
>> There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
>
>
> Michel Barnier explaining at least part of the reason why, despite a
> Europe-wide shortage of drivers, things are not so bad on the
> continent:
>
> "The situation is not the same in France or in Germany or Spain. But I
> don't want to give lessons … But when you look at the proportion of
> the trade relations, clearly we export around 8 per cent of our goods
> to the UK. They export around 47 per cent to the EU. So the proportion
> of suffering is different, maybe because of that. We face the same
> constraints. We have rebuilt controls and non-tariff barriers. It's
> easier to assume and take on board the consequences when you are 26,
> rather than alone"
"And we don't have an anti government media whipping up hysteria"
>> There may be no shortage of fuel in the refineries, but there was and is at petrol stations.
>
>
> Michel Barnier explaining at least part of the reason why, despite a
> Europe-wide shortage of drivers, things are not so bad on the
> continent:
>
> "The situation is not the same in France or in Germany or Spain. But I
> don't want to give lessons … But when you look at the proportion of
> the trade relations, clearly we export around 8 per cent of our goods
> to the UK. They export around 47 per cent to the EU. So the proportion
> of suffering is different, maybe because of that. We face the same
> constraints. We have rebuilt controls and non-tariff barriers. It's
> easier to assume and take on board the consequences when you are 26,
> rather than alone"
--
kat
>^..^<
Martin Brown
Oct 4, 2021, 7:19:14 AM10/4/21
to
for Class 1 HGV drivers at £45k OTE, vehicles all under 3 years old and
a £300 bonus for any of your mates that you could recruit for them.
That is quite a hike in wages over a short period of time. When it feeds
through into food prices it will hurt the poorest the most.
--
Regards,
Martin Brown
Roland Perry
Oct 4, 2021, 7:54:19 AM10/4/21
to
In message <sjenvd$s86$3...@gioia.aioe.org>, at 12:19:09 on Mon, 4 Oct
2021, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> remarked:
<Tory dinosaur> Then those poor people should retrain as HGV drivers.
It's not our fault (nothing ever is), it's theirs.
--
Roland Perry
2021, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> remarked:
It's not our fault (nothing ever is), it's theirs.
--
Roland Perry
notya...@gmail.com
Oct 4, 2021, 8:23:23 AM10/4/21
to
Norman Wells
Oct 4, 2021, 8:23:44 AM10/4/21
to
Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
prices. What's an extra £10 or 20 spread over 20 tonnes?
JNugent
Oct 4, 2021, 8:23:53 AM10/4/21
to
You are surely too well-informed to believe that shelf prices are
determined by adding together all the factor costs and adding a mark-up
at wholesale and retail levels.
JNugent
Oct 4, 2021, 1:35:12 PM10/4/21
to
People who (rightly) don't believe in "trickle-down" are sometimes very
receptive to the concept of "trickle-up".
Brian
Oct 5, 2021, 6:35:29 PM10/5/21
to
tankers. It isn’t a one off few pounds it is added time and time again. Not
only to the food but to the fuel, the transport of the bits that make the
lorry that carries the food, the tanker etc. On and on it goes.
Boris’ statements re low wages are unbelievably naive. We inflation takes
hold he will be blaming those getting pay rises, the pay rises he is
advocating.
Tim Woodall
Oct 6, 2021, 1:58:36 AM10/6/21
to
On 2021-10-05, Brian <no...@lid.org> wrote:
> Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 04/10/2021 12:19, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 01/10/2021 09:14, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>> On 01/10/2021 07:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage for
>>>>> HGV drivers is ??36k.
> Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 04/10/2021 12:19, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> On 01/10/2021 09:14, Norman Wells wrote:
>>>> On 01/10/2021 07:32, Roland Perry wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> According to a local blue-chip recruitment firm, the average wage for
>>>>
>>>> It's simply supply and demand.?? You have to pay enough to attract whom
>>>> you need.?? IF you do, you will.?? If you're become addicted to cheap as
>>>> chips east European labour which is no longer available, and can't
>>>> bear to pay any more than you did when it was here, you won't, and you
>>>> put your whole business in jeopardy.
>>>>
>>>> That's commerce.?? And it applies to farms as well.
>>>> bear to pay any more than you did when it was here, you won't, and you
>>>> put your whole business in jeopardy.
>>>>
>>>
>>> One of the big players in refrigerated food transport was advertising
>>> for Class 1 HGV drivers at ??45k OTE, vehicles all under 3 years old and
>>> One of the big players in refrigerated food transport was advertising
>>> a ??300 bonus for any of your mates that you could recruit for them.
>>>
>>> That is quite a hike in wages over a short period of time. When it feeds
>>> through into food prices it will hurt the poorest the most.
>>
>> The alternative is not to pay them and go without.
>>
>> Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
>> prices. What's an extra ??10 or 20 spread over 20 tonnes?
>>> That is quite a hike in wages over a short period of time. When it feeds
>>> through into food prices it will hurt the poorest the most.
>>
>> The alternative is not to pay them and go without.
>>
>> Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> It isn???t that simple. Every load has a premium added to it including fuel
> tankers. It isn???t a one off few pounds it is added time and time again. Not
> only to the food but to the fuel, the transport of the bits that make the
> lorry that carries the food, the tanker etc. On and on it goes.
>
> Boris??? statements re low wages are unbelievably naive. We inflation takes
> lorry that carries the food, the tanker etc. On and on it goes.
>
> hold he will be blaming those getting pay rises, the pay rises he is
> advocating.
>
The conservatives always have played a long game. The wage inflation
> advocating.
>
will lead to higher income tax receipts, especially where people start
paying tax at higher rates (lorry drivers being one class where wages
are now crossing into the 40% band)
But those receipts return to central government while it's councils that
foot a lot of the wage bill. Bin men moving to private industry to earn
more being a current problem.
Under FPTP, the conservatives need around 40% of the vote, so handing
back the increased IT take to carefully selected councils (which despite
the "objective" selection will all be tory leaning) will allow them to
cement their hold on power.
Algernon Goss-Custard
Oct 6, 2021, 4:03:30 AM10/6/21
to
Brian <no...@lid.org> posted
>Boris’ statements re low wages are unbelievably naive. We inflation takes
>hold he will be blaming those getting pay rises, the pay rises he is
>advocating.
Wage-price spirals of the kind seen in the 1970s only occurred because
the government did not keep the money supply under control. In
particular it allowed large increases in public sector pay for
unproductive staff, especially in the nationalised industries. A
market-driven pay rise for lorry drivers would not have the same effect.
--
Algernon
>Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
>> prices. What's an extra £10 or 20 spread over 20 tonnes?
>>
>
>It isn’t that simple. Every load has a premium added to it including fuel
>tankers. It isn’t a one off few pounds it is added time and time again. Not
>only to the food but to the fuel, the transport of the bits that make the
>lorry that carries the food, the tanker etc. On and on it goes.
No it doesn't. It's added once to each load.
>> Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
>> prices. What's an extra £10 or 20 spread over 20 tonnes?
>>
>
>It isn’t that simple. Every load has a premium added to it including fuel
>tankers. It isn’t a one off few pounds it is added time and time again. Not
>only to the food but to the fuel, the transport of the bits that make the
>lorry that carries the food, the tanker etc. On and on it goes.
>Boris’ statements re low wages are unbelievably naive. We inflation takes
>hold he will be blaming those getting pay rises, the pay rises he is
>advocating.
the government did not keep the money supply under control. In
particular it allowed large increases in public sector pay for
unproductive staff, especially in the nationalised industries. A
market-driven pay rise for lorry drivers would not have the same effect.
--
Algernon
Norman Wells
Oct 6, 2021, 4:04:00 AM10/6/21
to
On 05/10/2021 23:29, Brian wrote:
> Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 04/10/2021 12:19, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> One of the big players in refrigerated food transport was advertising
>>> for Class 1 HGV drivers at £45k OTE, vehicles all under 3 years old and
>>> a £300 bonus for any of your mates that you could recruit for them.
>>>
>>> That is quite a hike in wages over a short period of time. When it feeds
>>> through into food prices it will hurt the poorest the most.
>>
>> The alternative is not to pay them and go without.
>>
>> Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
>> prices. What's an extra £10 or 20 spread over 20 tonnes?
>
> It isn’t that simple. Every load has a premium added to it including fuel
> tankers. It isn’t a one off few pounds it is added time and time again.
It really is that simple. It's however much extra would be paid to the
> Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>> On 04/10/2021 12:19, Martin Brown wrote:
>>> One of the big players in refrigerated food transport was advertising
>>> for Class 1 HGV drivers at £45k OTE, vehicles all under 3 years old and
>>> a £300 bonus for any of your mates that you could recruit for them.
>>>
>>> That is quite a hike in wages over a short period of time. When it feeds
>>> through into food prices it will hurt the poorest the most.
>>
>> The alternative is not to pay them and go without.
>>
>> Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
>> prices. What's an extra £10 or 20 spread over 20 tonnes?
>
> It isn’t that simple. Every load has a premium added to it including fuel
> tankers. It isn’t a one off few pounds it is added time and time again.
lorry driver, whatever his load, divided by the mass of the load. If
it's £20 per load and the load is 20 tonnes, it's not hard to work out.
And it's not very much.
> Not
> only to the food but to the fuel, the transport of the bits that make the
> lorry that carries the food, the tanker etc. On and on it goes.
much that would affect prices in the shops or at the pump.
Roland Perry
Oct 6, 2021, 7:37:02 AM10/6/21
to
In message <twY7PZCN...@invalid.com>, at 08:09:01 on Wed, 6 Oct
At the very least a delivery will be made from the manufacturer to the
retailer's own distribution warehouse, and thence consolidated with
other items from different manufacturers, to be sent to individual
stores.
If it's farmed produce, there's also the trip from the fields to the
packing station.
And when the fields are in Spain, even more transportation required.
--
Roland Perry
2021, Algernon Goss-Custard <B...@nowhere.com> remarked:
>Brian <no...@lid.org> posted
>>Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>> Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
>>> prices. What's an extra £10 or 20 spread over 20 tonnes?
>>>
>>
>>It isn’t that simple. Every load has a premium added to it including fuel
>>tankers. It isn’t a one off few pounds it is added time and time again. Not
>>only to the food but to the fuel, the transport of the bits that make the
>>lorry that carries the food, the tanker etc. On and on it goes.
>
>No it doesn't. It's added once to each load.
A broken model of the supply chain.
>>Norman Wells <h...@unseen.ac.am> wrote:
>>> Anyway, bulk transportation of food isn't a great contributor to retail
>>> prices. What's an extra £10 or 20 spread over 20 tonnes?
>>>
>>
>>It isn’t that simple. Every load has a premium added to it including fuel
>>tankers. It isn’t a one off few pounds it is added time and time again. Not
>>only to the food but to the fuel, the transport of the bits that make the
>>lorry that carries the food, the tanker etc. On and on it goes.
>
>No it doesn't. It's added once to each load.
At the very least a delivery will be made from the manufacturer to the
retailer's own distribution warehouse, and thence consolidated with
other items from different manufacturers, to be sent to individual
stores.
If it's farmed produce, there's also the trip from the fields to the
packing station.
And when the fields are in Spain, even more transportation required.
--
Roland Perry
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