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Energy Ombudsman refuses to get my smart meter working
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Clive Page
Dec 4, 2023, 5:58:24 AM12/4/23
to
Earlier this year my energy supplier (EDF) said our gas and electricity meters had expired their calibrations and had to be replaced. I accepted their offer to replace them by smart metering. In May we got our smart meters and the usual in-home display and all worked fine for a month. Then it showed "supply disconnected contact your supplier". I did so, and in late June a technician called and eventually diagnosed a fault with the comms unit on the electricity meter and replaced it. The in-home display worked again. But after a few weeks it failed again the same way.
EDF denied that it was the same fault again and over the next few months insisted on sending a succession of technicians and also posted us a series of in-home displays, none of which worked at all. All showed that they were not getting data from the meter, even when sited within a few inches of it (so it was not a weak signal, more a complete absence of signal). It was obvious that the comms module had failed again, but EDF claimed that it was sending readings regularly to their servers over the phone network and that it did not matter that it was not working on the local area network (Zigbee, apparently). I can indeed go on their website to get readings but they are over 24 hours old. EDF flatly refused to repair/replace the meter comms unit again.
I took this to the Energy Ombudsman reasonably confident that they would rule in my favour, but I got their judgement last week and they say that it would be unreasonable to expect EDF to repair the meter again and that the in-home display is not a required element of the smart meter system.
I was relying upon a statement on their website https://www.energyombudsman.org/smart-meters which says
"If you report a fault with the in-home display within 12 months of the date of installation, and your supplier is satisfied that the fault isn’t due to a failure by the customer to keep the in-home display in good working order, the supplier must repair or replace the in-home display free of charge."
Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home display: it's mildly useful, but we've managed many years without one. However the National Grid is starting to roll out schemes like "Peak Saver" which depend on consumers reducing their electricity usage at predicted peak periods and I think that without a working in-home display we won't be able to take part in such schemes so may lose money.
There doesn't appear to be any mechanism for appealing against a decision by the Energy Ombudsman unless one can demonstrate that the facts have changed. Are there any other ways of making progress, or has anyone else any experience of using the Energy Ombudsman?
--
Clive Page
EDF denied that it was the same fault again and over the next few months insisted on sending a succession of technicians and also posted us a series of in-home displays, none of which worked at all. All showed that they were not getting data from the meter, even when sited within a few inches of it (so it was not a weak signal, more a complete absence of signal). It was obvious that the comms module had failed again, but EDF claimed that it was sending readings regularly to their servers over the phone network and that it did not matter that it was not working on the local area network (Zigbee, apparently). I can indeed go on their website to get readings but they are over 24 hours old. EDF flatly refused to repair/replace the meter comms unit again.
I took this to the Energy Ombudsman reasonably confident that they would rule in my favour, but I got their judgement last week and they say that it would be unreasonable to expect EDF to repair the meter again and that the in-home display is not a required element of the smart meter system.
I was relying upon a statement on their website https://www.energyombudsman.org/smart-meters which says
"If you report a fault with the in-home display within 12 months of the date of installation, and your supplier is satisfied that the fault isn’t due to a failure by the customer to keep the in-home display in good working order, the supplier must repair or replace the in-home display free of charge."
Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home display: it's mildly useful, but we've managed many years without one. However the National Grid is starting to roll out schemes like "Peak Saver" which depend on consumers reducing their electricity usage at predicted peak periods and I think that without a working in-home display we won't be able to take part in such schemes so may lose money.
There doesn't appear to be any mechanism for appealing against a decision by the Energy Ombudsman unless one can demonstrate that the facts have changed. Are there any other ways of making progress, or has anyone else any experience of using the Energy Ombudsman?
--
Clive Page
pensive hamster
Dec 4, 2023, 6:18:03 AM12/4/23
to
but you may be interested in this article
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67591320
Smart meters: Almost three million still not working
At the end of the article, it says:
'Are you having trouble with your smart meter? Share
your experiences by emailing havey...@bbc.co.uk.
'Please include a contact number if you are willing to
speak to a BBC journalist. You can also get in touch in
the following ways:
[...]
The Todal
Dec 4, 2023, 8:00:51 AM12/4/23
to
On 04/12/2023 10:58, Clive Page wrote:
>
> Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home
> display: it's mildly useful, but we've managed many years without one.
> However the National Grid is starting to roll out schemes like "Peak
> Saver" which depend on consumers reducing their electricity usage at
> predicted peak periods and I think that without a working in-home
> display we won't be able to take part in such schemes so may lose money.
I can't offer any suggestions or advice relating to your query, but I do
>
> Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home
> display: it's mildly useful, but we've managed many years without one.
> However the National Grid is starting to roll out schemes like "Peak
> Saver" which depend on consumers reducing their electricity usage at
> predicted peak periods and I think that without a working in-home
> display we won't be able to take part in such schemes so may lose money.
agree that the in-home display is of very limited use if you already
know which appliances in your home have a high energy demand.
But what I do find useful on the in-home display is where it tells you
the cost of the energy you have used for the current month up to today.
It makes it easier to plan your expenditure for the month and decide
whether to increase the direct debit.
AnthonyL
Dec 4, 2023, 8:21:31 AM12/4/23
to
On Mon, 4 Dec 2023 10:58:16 +0000, Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:
>Earlier this year my energy supplier (EDF) said our gas and electricity meters had expired their calibrations and had to be replaced. I accepted their offer to replace them by smart metering. In May we got our smart meters and the usual in-home display and all worked fine for a month. Then it showed "supply disconnected contact your supplier". I did so, and in late June a technician called and eventually diagnosed a fault with the comms unit on the electricity meter and replaced it. The in-home display worked again. But after a few weeks it failed again the same way.
>
>EDF denied that it was the same fault again and over the next few months insisted on sending a succession of technicians and also posted us a series of in-home displays, none of which worked at all. All showed that they were not getting data from the meter, even when sited within a few inches of it (so it was not a weak signal, more a complete absence of signal). It was obvious that the comms module had failed again, but EDF claimed that it was sending readings regularly to their servers over the phone network and that it did not matter that it was not working on the local area network (Zigbee, apparently). I can indeed go on their website to get readings but they are over 24 hours old. EDF flatly refused to repair/replace the meter comms unit again.
>
>I took this to the Energy Ombudsman reasonably confident that they would rule in my favour, but I got their judgement last week and they say that it would be unreasonable to expect EDF to repair the meter again and that the in-home display is not a required element of the smart meter system.
>
>I was relying upon a statement on their website https://www.energyombudsman.org/smart-meters which says
>"If you report a fault with the in-home display within 12 months of the date of installation, and your supplier is satisfied that the fault isn’t due to a failure by the customer to keep the in-home display in good working order, the supplier must repair or replace the in-home display free of charge."
>
>Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home display:
But surely you should be!! I thought the point of smart meters is that
>Earlier this year my energy supplier (EDF) said our gas and electricity meters had expired their calibrations and had to be replaced. I accepted their offer to replace them by smart metering. In May we got our smart meters and the usual in-home display and all worked fine for a month. Then it showed "supply disconnected contact your supplier". I did so, and in late June a technician called and eventually diagnosed a fault with the comms unit on the electricity meter and replaced it. The in-home display worked again. But after a few weeks it failed again the same way.
>
>EDF denied that it was the same fault again and over the next few months insisted on sending a succession of technicians and also posted us a series of in-home displays, none of which worked at all. All showed that they were not getting data from the meter, even when sited within a few inches of it (so it was not a weak signal, more a complete absence of signal). It was obvious that the comms module had failed again, but EDF claimed that it was sending readings regularly to their servers over the phone network and that it did not matter that it was not working on the local area network (Zigbee, apparently). I can indeed go on their website to get readings but they are over 24 hours old. EDF flatly refused to repair/replace the meter comms unit again.
>
>I took this to the Energy Ombudsman reasonably confident that they would rule in my favour, but I got their judgement last week and they say that it would be unreasonable to expect EDF to repair the meter again and that the in-home display is not a required element of the smart meter system.
>
>I was relying upon a statement on their website https://www.energyombudsman.org/smart-meters which says
>"If you report a fault with the in-home display within 12 months of the date of installation, and your supplier is satisfied that the fault isn’t due to a failure by the customer to keep the in-home display in good working order, the supplier must repair or replace the in-home display free of charge."
>
>Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home display:
you can track you usage in real time and save the planet by turning
things off that you don't need at that moment.
The line now appears to say that is all officially a big lie.
--
AnthonyL
Why ever wait to finish a job before starting the next?
Peter Johnson
Dec 4, 2023, 9:33:13 AM12/4/23
to
that's all you can expect. That's all they are obliged to provide. I'm
pretty sure that the in-home displays are a 'shiney freeby' offered to
encourage smart meter take-up and that there's no obligation to supply
them or, as you have found out, to make sure that they work in all
circumstances.
Pamela
Dec 4, 2023, 1:25:04 PM12/4/23
to
On 10:58 4 Dec 2023, Clive Page said:
>
> [DETAILS OF SITUATION SNIPPED]
I was recently looking at some of the decisions by the Health Service
(and Parliamentary) ombudsman.
See them here: https://decisions.ombudsman.org.uk/
Some of the PHSO ombudsman's arguments for disallowing an appeal of a
health service complaint struck me as distinctly weak. I too was left
wondering if an appellant had recourse to further judgement. However I
understand the PHSO ombusdsman reports to the Public Administration and
Constitutional Affairs Committee in the House of Commons ... and that's
simply not going to deal with a personal case.
>
> [DETAILS OF SITUATION SNIPPED]
>
> There doesn't appear to be any mechanism for appealing against a
> decision by the Energy Ombudsman unless one can demonstrate that the
> facts have changed. Are there any other ways of making progress, or
> has anyone else any experience of using the Energy Ombudsman?
I can't speak to the details of your experience with the smart meter but
> There doesn't appear to be any mechanism for appealing against a
> decision by the Energy Ombudsman unless one can demonstrate that the
> facts have changed. Are there any other ways of making progress, or
> has anyone else any experience of using the Energy Ombudsman?
I was recently looking at some of the decisions by the Health Service
(and Parliamentary) ombudsman.
See them here: https://decisions.ombudsman.org.uk/
Some of the PHSO ombudsman's arguments for disallowing an appeal of a
health service complaint struck me as distinctly weak. I too was left
wondering if an appellant had recourse to further judgement. However I
understand the PHSO ombusdsman reports to the Public Administration and
Constitutional Affairs Committee in the House of Commons ... and that's
simply not going to deal with a personal case.
Simon Parker
Dec 4, 2023, 1:48:15 PM12/4/23
to
On 04/12/2023 10:58, Clive Page wrote:
on them and their smart meters just today.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67591320
Have you tried contacting Energy UK, the trade association for the
energy industry?
The BBC article cited above quotes them as saying: "A small proportion
of smart meters have lost full functionality and although this means
they still operate as traditional meters, allowing customers to submit
manual readings manually, suppliers still have a duty to replace these
with a functioning smart meter when necessary.
"There can be a range of reasons for any problems - and sometimes the
issue is with the in-home display unit rather than the meter itself. In
some cases, it's possible to rectify the issue with a remote update or a
reset of the in-home display which the customer can perform themselves."
If the data is being sent to EDF but not your in-home display, have you
considered using an app like Hugo to download the data sent to EDF into
your smartphone, (albeit with a delay, so not in real time)?
Regards
S.P.
Sam Plusnet
Dec 4, 2023, 2:07:11 PM12/4/23
to
claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration
of their system?
--
Sam Plusnet
Andy Burns
Dec 4, 2023, 3:40:57 PM12/4/23
to
Sam Plusnet wrote:
> How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF
> claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration
> of their system?
Presumably they have to blow the cobwebs off the meter and read the
> How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF
> claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration
> of their system?
actual display, rather than the in-home display.
Harry Bloomfield Esq
Dec 4, 2023, 4:27:04 PM12/4/23
to
On 04/12/2023 19:07, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF
> claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration
> of their system?
You can always press the appropriate button on the meter, to display the
> How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF
> claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration
> of their system?
present reading. I read mine, and feed them into a spreadsheet, each week.
Roger Hayter
Dec 4, 2023, 5:18:00 PM12/4/23
to
On 4 Dec 2023 at 21:26:53 GMT, "Harry Bloomfield Esq" <a...@harrym1byt.plus.com>
wrote:
At least the old electro-mechanical meters were nearly always more-or-less
accurate, or visibly wildly wrong. With firmware involved who knows when they
might misread by 5, 10, or 50%?
--
Roger Hayter
wrote:
accurate, or visibly wildly wrong. With firmware involved who knows when they
might misread by 5, 10, or 50%?
--
Roger Hayter
TTman
Dec 4, 2023, 6:31:18 PM12/4/23
to
SNIP
uses 2.4GHz Zigbee for comms. Contrary to public statements, IMO/IME it
is affected by 2.4Ghz wi-fi. In my case ( EDF) I had 5 IHDs fail, all
the same way, sooner or later. I also complained to the Ombudsman and
got the same answer- tough until 2025. A bit different to you because
yours is <12 months old ??? After 12 months, IHD failures is tough sh**.
In my case, for some strange reason, and without me asking, EDF
installed a dual band system 'as a beta customer'. They knew I was a
retired electronics engineer and I gave them grief everytime they tried
to bullsh** me with answers- such as' sorry about your IHD, it needs a
software update- please allow 45 days for this to happen. Bull. I
contacted a m8 in Chameleon Tech who told me IHD3s cannot be software
updated....and so it went on.Eventually the gas meter died- failed to
send data. I'm 99.9% convinced all of the IHDs and finally the gas meter
comms got 'bricked' resulting in the IHD stuck on 'waiting for data and
the gas meter sending nothing to DCC/EDF.
Fast forward 18 months plus of my dual band install and the Chameleon3
IHD has never failed. It's in exactly the same place as my old
IHDs...Sure, it drops out from time to time but it has ALWAYS
reconnected quickly. Gas meter has never failed a beat to send 30 min
slots data. Electric meter is rock solid.
As you say, you will find it difficult to participate effectively in the
savings sessions without and IHD. IME, without solar/battery the best
you can do is switch everything off for the 1hr/90 min session. Is it
worth it ? You can get 3rd party IHDs- Ivie Bud is one- Hugo is another.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
>
> There doesn't appear to be any mechanism for appealing against a
> decision by the Energy Ombudsman unless one can demonstrate that the
> facts have changed. Are there any other ways of making progress, or has
> anyone else any experience of using the Energy Ombudsman?
>
>
I had exactly the same issue. The root cause is the fact that the HAN
> There doesn't appear to be any mechanism for appealing against a
> decision by the Energy Ombudsman unless one can demonstrate that the
> facts have changed. Are there any other ways of making progress, or has
> anyone else any experience of using the Energy Ombudsman?
>
>
uses 2.4GHz Zigbee for comms. Contrary to public statements, IMO/IME it
is affected by 2.4Ghz wi-fi. In my case ( EDF) I had 5 IHDs fail, all
the same way, sooner or later. I also complained to the Ombudsman and
got the same answer- tough until 2025. A bit different to you because
yours is <12 months old ??? After 12 months, IHD failures is tough sh**.
In my case, for some strange reason, and without me asking, EDF
installed a dual band system 'as a beta customer'. They knew I was a
retired electronics engineer and I gave them grief everytime they tried
to bullsh** me with answers- such as' sorry about your IHD, it needs a
software update- please allow 45 days for this to happen. Bull. I
contacted a m8 in Chameleon Tech who told me IHD3s cannot be software
updated....and so it went on.Eventually the gas meter died- failed to
send data. I'm 99.9% convinced all of the IHDs and finally the gas meter
comms got 'bricked' resulting in the IHD stuck on 'waiting for data and
the gas meter sending nothing to DCC/EDF.
Fast forward 18 months plus of my dual band install and the Chameleon3
IHD has never failed. It's in exactly the same place as my old
IHDs...Sure, it drops out from time to time but it has ALWAYS
reconnected quickly. Gas meter has never failed a beat to send 30 min
slots data. Electric meter is rock solid.
As you say, you will find it difficult to participate effectively in the
savings sessions without and IHD. IME, without solar/battery the best
you can do is switch everything off for the 1hr/90 min session. Is it
worth it ? You can get 3rd party IHDs- Ivie Bud is one- Hugo is another.
--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
www.avast.com
TTman
Dec 4, 2023, 6:36:12 PM12/4/23
to
>>
>> --
>> Clive Page
>
> I can't offer you any advice for your particular situation,
> but you may be interested in this article
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67591320
> Smart meters: Almost three million still not working
>
> At the end of the article, it says:
>
> 'Are you having trouble with your smart meter? Share
> your experiences by emailing havey...@bbc.co.uk.
>
> 'Please include a contact number if you are willing to
> speak to a BBC journalist. You can also get in touch in
> the following ways:
> [...]
>
working. There's many reasons. Many are directly related to the In House
Display not working. No wonder. 2.4G bluetooth is severely range
limited.Major problem right there and the however many costomers say 'my
smart meter is faulty' when what they really mean is 'my in house
display is faulty'. I suggest ( IME moderating an energy group) that the
faulty IHDs form a large part of the 3 million. yes, after 12 months,
there is ABSOLUTELY no obligation for an energy company to resolve/fix
ANY issues with IHDs.
Apalling IMO.
TTman
Dec 4, 2023, 6:39:34 PM12/4/23
to
tell you kWh use, instant and historic, but they cannot tell you
anything £££ wise. OTOH, those smart enogh to realise tOU is the way to
go, don't care about the £££ on an IHD.
The people who would benefit the most, are those in fuel poverty and are
disproportionally affected. I feel really sorry for them....
TTman
Dec 4, 2023, 6:41:33 PM12/4/23
to
>>>
>>> There doesn't appear to be any mechanism for appealing against a
>>> decision by the Energy Ombudsman unless one can demonstrate that the
>>> facts have changed. Are there any other ways of making progress, or
>>> has anyone else any experience of using the Energy Ombudsman?
>>
>> If the meters are communicating the energy used to EDF then I thinks
>> that's all you can expect. That's all they are obliged to provide. I'm
>> pretty sure that the in-home displays are a 'shiney freeby' offered to
>> encourage smart meter take-up and that there's no obligation to supply
>> them or, as you have found out, to make sure that they work in all
>> circumstances.
>>
> How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF
> claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration
> of their system?
>
a matter of course... either by checking that data is getting onto your
account online OR physically checking the meter readings manually.
TTman
Dec 4, 2023, 6:48:20 PM12/4/23
to
send in your manual readings'.
IME Ombudsman and OFGEM are both toothless, especially the Ombudsman.
They don't seen to be able to enforce their decisions...
>
> "There can be a range of reasons for any problems - and sometimes the
> issue is with the in-home display unit rather than the meter itself. In
> some cases, it's possible to rectify the issue with a remote update or a
> reset of the in-home display which the customer can perform themselves."
be upgraded in any way. See my earlier post. I suspect all chameleon IHD
models can't be updated. I further suspect that this applies to all IHDs
but I'm prepared to be corrected.
>
> If the data is being sent to EDF but not your in-home display, have you
> considered using an app like Hugo to download the data sent to EDF into
> your smartphone, (albeit with a delay, so not in real time)?
Good suggestion, along with Ivie Bud and others ...
> If the data is being sent to EDF but not your in-home display, have you
> considered using an app like Hugo to download the data sent to EDF into
> your smartphone, (albeit with a delay, so not in real time)?
>
> Regards
>
> S.P.
Theo
Dec 4, 2023, 7:11:06 PM12/4/23
to
Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:
> Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home
> display: it's mildly useful, but we've managed many years without one.
> However the National Grid is starting to roll out schemes like "Peak
> Saver" which depend on consumers reducing their electricity usage at
> predicted peak periods and I think that without a working in-home display
> we won't be able to take part in such schemes so may lose money.
I can't speak for any appeals process, but on that point you should be able
> Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home
> display: it's mildly useful, but we've managed many years without one.
> However the National Grid is starting to roll out schemes like "Peak
> Saver" which depend on consumers reducing their electricity usage at
> predicted peak periods and I think that without a working in-home display
> we won't be able to take part in such schemes so may lose money.
to join such schemes, as long as your energy company is getting readings is
all that matters. There are also other devices which can pair with your
meter to get the live data, if you need realtime feedback.
Or switch to Octopus, they have a much better reputation for sorting smart
meter problems. Someone working for the DCC (comms network) said that 70% of
all fault tickets were being reported by Octopus staff.
Theo
TTman
Dec 4, 2023, 7:29:20 PM12/4/23
to
>> I took this to the Energy Ombudsman reasonably confident that they would rule in my favour, but I got their judgement last week and they say that it would be unreasonable to expect EDF to repair the meter again and that the in-home display is not a required element of the smart meter system.
>>
>> I was relying upon a statement on their website https://www.energyombudsman.org/smart-meters which says
>> "If you report a fault with the in-home display within 12 months of the date of installation, and your supplier is satisfied that the fault isn’t due to a failure by the customer to keep the in-home display in good working order, the supplier must repair or replace the in-home display free of charge."
>>
>> Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home display:
>
> But surely you should be!! I thought the point of smart meters is that
> you can track you usage in real time and save the planet by turning
> things off that you don't need at that moment.
>
> The line now appears to say that is all officially a big lie.
>
>
geezer that pretends to look like Einstein and his wonderful In House
Display that is the centre of the universe and all things useful.NOT.
OFGEM/Ombudsman need reminding of that advert and its implications.
Clive Page
Dec 5, 2023, 4:40:03 AM12/5/23
to
On 04/12/2023 11:17, pensive hamster wrote:
>
> I can't offer you any advice for your particular situation,
> but you may be interested in this article
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67591320
> Smart meters: Almost three million still not working
>
> At the end of the article, it says:
>
> 'Are you having trouble with your smart meter? Share
> your experiences by emailing havey...@bbc.co.uk.
>
> 'Please include a contact number if you are willing to
> speak to a BBC journalist. You can also get in touch in
> the following ways:
> [...]
Thanks, I've just done that. But with millions of these not working, they may have too many of us to talk to.
>
> I can't offer you any advice for your particular situation,
> but you may be interested in this article
>
> https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-67591320
> Smart meters: Almost three million still not working
>
> At the end of the article, it says:
>
> 'Are you having trouble with your smart meter? Share
> your experiences by emailing havey...@bbc.co.uk.
>
> 'Please include a contact number if you are willing to
> speak to a BBC journalist. You can also get in touch in
> the following ways:
> [...]
>
--
Clive Page
Peter Johnson
Dec 5, 2023, 9:58:46 AM12/5/23
to
On Mon, 4 Dec 2023 19:07:01 +0000, Sam Plusnet <n...@home.com> wrote:
>> If the meters are communicating the energy used to EDF then I thinks
>> that's all you can expect. That's all they are obliged to provide. I'm
>> pretty sure that the in-home displays are a 'shiney freeby' offered to
>> encourage smart meter take-up and that there's no obligation to supply
>> them or, as you have found out, to make sure that they work in all
>> circumstances.
>>
>How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF
>claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration
>of their system?
The same as they would do with amy other meter, read it and see how
>> If the meters are communicating the energy used to EDF then I thinks
>> that's all you can expect. That's all they are obliged to provide. I'm
>> pretty sure that the in-home displays are a 'shiney freeby' offered to
>> encourage smart meter take-up and that there's no obligation to supply
>> them or, as you have found out, to make sure that they work in all
>> circumstances.
>>
>How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF
>claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration
>of their system?
close it is to the bill.
Clive Page
Dec 5, 2023, 10:19:18 AM12/5/23
to
On 04/12/2023 19:07, Sam Plusnet wrote:
> How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration of their system?
Well the gas and electricity meters still have a display on the front which can be read. I haven't checked that these are identical with the values shown in arrears in the EDF website, but they are certainly about the same. Of course having the numbers on display inside the house is a lot more convenient.
> How does the customer verify that the energy usage figures, which EDF claim come from the meter, are the real figures and not some aberration of their system?
--
Clive Page
Clive Page
Dec 5, 2023, 10:23:42 AM12/5/23
to
On 04/12/2023 22:23, Theo wrote:
> I can't speak for any appeals process, but on that point you should be able
> to join such schemes, as long as your energy company is getting readings is
> all that matters. There are also other devices which can pair with your
> meter to get the live data, if you need realtime feedback.
>
> Or switch to Octopus, they have a much better reputation for sorting smart
> meter problems. Someone working for the DCC (comms network) said that 70% of
> all fault tickets were being reported by Octopus staff.
We have friends who use Octopus and speak well of them. I might try to switch, as rates are pretty much the same from all companies at present. But I rather assumed that if the new company took over an installation which was giving them readings but not the in-home display, they might say "not our problem guv".
> I can't speak for any appeals process, but on that point you should be able
> to join such schemes, as long as your energy company is getting readings is
> all that matters. There are also other devices which can pair with your
> meter to get the live data, if you need realtime feedback.
>
> Or switch to Octopus, they have a much better reputation for sorting smart
> meter problems. Someone working for the DCC (comms network) said that 70% of
> all fault tickets were being reported by Octopus staff.
--
Clive Page
Pancho
Dec 5, 2023, 10:38:38 AM12/5/23
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On 05/12/2023 15:23, Clive Page wrote:
>> Or switch to Octopus, they have a much better reputation for sorting
>> smart
>> meter problems. Someone working for the DCC (comms network) said that
>> 70% of
>> all fault tickets were being reported by Octopus staff.
>
> We have friends who use Octopus and speak well of them. I might try to
> switch, as rates are pretty much the same from all companies at
> present. But I rather assumed that if the new company took over an
> installation which was giving them readings but not the in-home display,
> they might say "not our problem guv".
>
>
I'm with Octopus.
>> Or switch to Octopus, they have a much better reputation for sorting
>> smart
>> meter problems. Someone working for the DCC (comms network) said that
>> 70% of
>> all fault tickets were being reported by Octopus staff.
>
> We have friends who use Octopus and speak well of them. I might try to
> switch, as rates are pretty much the same from all companies at
> present. But I rather assumed that if the new company took over an
> installation which was giving them readings but not the in-home display,
> they might say "not our problem guv".
>
>
My electric smart meter doesn't report electrical data to Octopus or the
IHD, it does report gas data. Octopus haven't fixed it. I've been with
them about 8 months, since they took over Bulb. It stopped working
smartly about 4 years ago.
Octopus did, eventually, correct Bulb's ridiculous overestimates of my
predicted yearly usage, but they still tried to overcharge when I had a
huge credit balance.
Clive Page
Dec 5, 2023, 10:42:54 AM12/5/23
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On 04/12/2023 23:36, TTman wrote:
> What they didn't say/explain is exactly how the 3 million aren't working. There's many reasons. Many are directly related to the In House Display not working. No wonder. 2.4G bluetooth is severely range limited.Major problem right there and the however many costomers say 'my smart meter is faulty' when what they really mean is 'my in house display is faulty'. I suggest ( IME moderating an energy group) that the faulty IHDs form a large part of the 3 million. yes, after 12 months, there is ABSOLUTELY no obligation for an energy company to resolve/fix ANY issues with IHDs.
> Apalling IMO.
Agreed. In the Ombudsman response I got sent this URL
> What they didn't say/explain is exactly how the 3 million aren't working. There's many reasons. Many are directly related to the In House Display not working. No wonder. 2.4G bluetooth is severely range limited.Major problem right there and the however many costomers say 'my smart meter is faulty' when what they really mean is 'my in house display is faulty'. I suggest ( IME moderating an energy group) that the faulty IHDs form a large part of the 3 million. yes, after 12 months, there is ABSOLUTELY no obligation for an energy company to resolve/fix ANY issues with IHDs.
> Apalling IMO.
https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/sites/default/files/2023-03/Electricity%20Supply%20Standard%20Consolidated%20Licence%20Conditions%20-%20Current.pdf
which makes interesting reading (and it's only 601 pages long). The Ombudsman response only referenced sections 40.1.e and 40.16 which concern the in-home display (IHD). But as noted in my original posting its clearly the Home Area Network (HAN) in the electricity meter which has failed (twice now).
But to disagree with you - I think there *is* an obligation on the energy companies to repair it. The question is how often.
Section 49.21(b) of that long document states that
"The licensee must take all reasonable steps to ensure that it both establishes and thereafter maintains a connection through the HAN between the Smart Metering System any In-Home Display provided to it by the Domestic Customer at the relevant IHD premises that is located within a part of the premioses to which the HAN extends;"
This is similar, but not identical to the conditions set for the IHD itself. The real question is what are "all reasonable steps". EDF have made one attempt to repair it but refused to do any more, as this might involve replacing the whole electricity meter which would be expensive. But it failed within the first month.
If I buy an appliance from a retailer in the UK and it fails within a month I have the right to get it repaired or replaced. Obviously it was not a satisfactory repair as it failed again so soon. But the Ombudsman think it is reasonable to leave it not working after one repair attempt. The real problem is that the Energy Ombudsman is paid by the Energy Companies, so they know whose side to veer towards in cases like this, if they want to keep the funding going.
I can try to appeal, but this also goes to the same Ombudsman service, and the person who spoke to me on the phone implied that if the facts were unchanged the the decision was extremely likely to change.
--
Clive Page
Mark Goodge
Dec 5, 2023, 3:58:53 PM12/5/23
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On 04 Dec 2023 22:23:59 +0000 (GMT), Theo
supplier-provided IHD, so if the problem is that the LAN isn't working
(which appears to be the case here) then a third-party device will be
equally unable to connect.
Mark
<theom...@chiark.greenend.org.uk> wrote:
>Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:
>> Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home
>> display: it's mildly useful, but we've managed many years without one.
>> However the National Grid is starting to roll out schemes like "Peak
>> Saver" which depend on consumers reducing their electricity usage at
>> predicted peak periods and I think that without a working in-home display
>> we won't be able to take part in such schemes so may lose money.
>
>I can't speak for any appeals process, but on that point you should be able
>to join such schemes, as long as your energy company is getting readings is
>all that matters. There are also other devices which can pair with your
>meter to get the live data, if you need realtime feedback.
The third party devices use the same LAN connectivity mechanism as the
>Clive Page <use...@page2.eu> wrote:
>> Actually I'm not too fussed about the information provided by an in-home
>> display: it's mildly useful, but we've managed many years without one.
>> However the National Grid is starting to roll out schemes like "Peak
>> Saver" which depend on consumers reducing their electricity usage at
>> predicted peak periods and I think that without a working in-home display
>> we won't be able to take part in such schemes so may lose money.
>
>I can't speak for any appeals process, but on that point you should be able
>to join such schemes, as long as your energy company is getting readings is
>all that matters. There are also other devices which can pair with your
>meter to get the live data, if you need realtime feedback.
supplier-provided IHD, so if the problem is that the LAN isn't working
(which appears to be the case here) then a third-party device will be
equally unable to connect.
Mark
TTman
Dec 5, 2023, 6:29:38 PM12/5/23
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12 months following installation. That's my understanding. As for an
appeal, a different 'grade' of person gets to look at it IME. Any use ?
TTman
Dec 5, 2023, 6:32:02 PM12/5/23
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Certainly the Chameleon family can't...but shoud . They missed a BIG
trick there.
TTman
Dec 5, 2023, 6:34:21 PM12/5/23
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On 05/12/2023 15:23, Clive Page wrote:
customer that has suffered 'smart meter issues' with a previous
supplier. I have seen it.
TTman
Dec 5, 2023, 6:37:00 PM12/5/23
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electric meter SMETs 1 adopted. Maybe it can't be adopted. In which
case, ask for a SMETS2 electric meter upgrade as a loyal Octopus
customer LOL
Davey
Dec 5, 2023, 6:52:41 PM12/5/23
to
who was telling everybody with problems to report them and they would
sort them out. (Yeah, right). The presenter then gave a URL, and said
that, if you didn't have access to the internet, then find somebody who
does, and on the website, you could find a 'phone number and even a mail
address for the Ombudsman. Social Media was also mentioned.
But if you are somebody who is housebound, does not have a computer,
and does not know anybody who does, you are also unlikely to subscribe
to social media. Why could they not just give out the contact 'phone
numbe
--
Davey.
Pancho
Dec 6, 2023, 3:15:14 AM12/6/23
to
AIUI, the way these things work is that the Electric Meter reports the
data from the Gas Meter, so it is working partially. It just doesn't
report Electricity data, or more likely, Octopus don't listen when it does.
By its very nature, this problem is known to Octopus, yet they do
nothing about it. Just saying. One gets bored with complaining
ineffectually.
Andy Burns
Dec 6, 2023, 4:12:53 AM12/6/23
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TTman wrote:
> I'm not aware of any IHDs that replicate the main meter numbers.
I doubt there are any that CAN'T?
> I'm not aware of any IHDs that replicate the main meter numbers.
Harry Bloomfield Esq
Dec 6, 2023, 6:31:55 AM12/6/23
to
On 05/12/2023 15:19, Clive Page wrote:
> Well the gas and electricity meters still have a display on the front
> which can be read. I haven't checked that these are identical with the
> values shown in arrears in the EDF website, but they are certainly about
> the same. Of course having the numbers on display inside the house is a
> lot more convenient.
My IHD doesn't even show the basic information of the meter readings.
> which can be read. I haven't checked that these are identical with the
> values shown in arrears in the EDF website, but they are certainly about
> the same. Of course having the numbers on display inside the house is a
> lot more convenient.
The only way to get the meter readings, is by going out and pressing the
buttons.
Harry Bloomfield Esq
Dec 6, 2023, 6:42:17 AM12/6/23
to
On 05/12/2023 15:23, Clive Page wrote:
> We have friends who use Octopus and speak well of them. I might try to
> switch, as rates are pretty much the same from all companies at
> present. But I rather assumed that if the new company took over an
> installation which was giving them readings but not the in-home display,
> they might say "not our problem guv".
Yep - I'm with Octopus now, and they are really on the ball, near
> switch, as rates are pretty much the same from all companies at
> present. But I rather assumed that if the new company took over an
> installation which was giving them readings but not the in-home display,
> they might say "not our problem guv".
instant replies to enquiries, human, and really helpful - people you can
deal with.
My account was taken over by BG, when my supplier went bust, which was
when the nightmare began with BG. BG were totally incompetent, got my
account in a mess, my smart meters were off line for months. Not knowing
what I owed them, it was difficult to leave them.
When I finally did, to Octopus, they got my smarts working the same
week, been spot on ever since, except BG decided to settle my account
with them, of several hundred pounds owing to them by DD, without any
warning at all - they just took it.
Theo
Dec 6, 2023, 7:36:25 AM12/6/23
to
situated in a very awkward position (stand on a chair, remove an access
panel via a secret handshake, shove a phone in to take a picture). The IHD
was handy, but when I switched supplier neither the switch procedure nor the
new supplier (the late unlamented Symbio) used the smart meter. Since I
couldn't get the main meter numbers on the IHD I was back to the stand on a
chair routine.
(I think it was a Chameleon IHD, maybe IHD 5 or something)
Theo
Andy Burns
Dec 6, 2023, 8:06:11 AM12/6/23
to
Theo wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> TTman wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not aware of any IHDs that replicate the main meter numbers.
>>
>> I doubt there are any that CAN'T?
>
> I had that problem when I got a SMETS2 meter installed to replace a meter
> situated in a very awkward position (stand on a chair, remove an access
> panel via a secret handshake, shove a phone in to take a picture). The IHD
> was handy, but when I switched supplier neither the switch procedure nor the
> new supplier (the late unlamented Symbio) used the smart meter. Since I
> couldn't get the main meter numbers on the IHD I was back to the stand on a
> chair routine.
Do you mean for the register readings, or the meter serial number?
My 12 year old brick shows both for elec and gas
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> TTman wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not aware of any IHDs that replicate the main meter numbers.
>>
>> I doubt there are any that CAN'T?
>
> I had that problem when I got a SMETS2 meter installed to replace a meter
> situated in a very awkward position (stand on a chair, remove an access
> panel via a secret handshake, shove a phone in to take a picture). The IHD
> was handy, but when I switched supplier neither the switch procedure nor the
> new supplier (the late unlamented Symbio) used the smart meter. Since I
> couldn't get the main meter numbers on the IHD I was back to the stand on a
> chair routine.
My 12 year old brick shows both for elec and gas
Andy Burns
Dec 6, 2023, 9:35:11 AM12/6/23
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Harry Bloomfield Esq wrote:
> You can always press the appropriate button on the meter, to display the
> present reading.
I doubt my gas meter's battery would have lasted until now if I pressed
the button (which gives backlight) ever time I needed to read it ...
> You can always press the appropriate button on the meter, to display the
> present reading.
I doubt my gas meter's battery would have lasted until now if I pressed
the button (which gives backlight) ever time I needed to read it ...
Harry Bloomfield Esq
Dec 6, 2023, 10:35:50 AM12/6/23
to
On 06/12/2023 13:12, Andy Burns wrote:
> I doubt my gas meter's battery would have lasted until now if I pressed
> the button (which gives backlight) ever time I needed to read it ...
Well, I press the button once per week to read it, and several years
> I doubt my gas meter's battery would have lasted until now if I pressed
> the button (which gives backlight) ever time I needed to read it ...
later it is still working just fine. It only lights for a few seconds.
Theo
Dec 6, 2023, 2:21:05 PM12/6/23
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Theo
TTman
Dec 10, 2023, 5:29:30 PM12/10/23
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It doesn't display gas standing charge
It doesn't display export power
Davey
Dec 10, 2023, 6:59:04 PM12/10/23
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On Sun, 10 Dec 2023 22:29:21 +0000
TTman <kraken...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06/12/2023 08:24, Andy Burns wrote:
> > TTman wrote:
> >
> >> I'm not aware of any IHDs that replicate the main meter numbers.
> >
> > I doubt there are any that CAN'T?
> >
> >
> My IHD cannot display my main meter readings at all.
> It doesn't display gas standing charge
> It doesn't display export power
>
According to another post, you should be able to get it replaced free of
TTman <kraken...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On 06/12/2023 08:24, Andy Burns wrote:
> > TTman wrote:
> >
> >> I'm not aware of any IHDs that replicate the main meter numbers.
> >
> > I doubt there are any that CAN'T?
> >
> >
> My IHD cannot display my main meter readings at all.
> It doesn't display gas standing charge
> It doesn't display export power
>
charge. As I have stated, a failure of the IHD is a device failure,
simple.
--
Davey
Andy Burns
Dec 11, 2023, 6:53:56 AM12/11/23
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TTman wrote:
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> TTman wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not aware of any IHDs that replicate the main meter numbers.
>>
>> I doubt there are any that CAN'T?
>>
> My IHD cannot display my main meter readings at all.
What is the point of it then?
> Andy Burns wrote:
>
>> TTman wrote:
>>
>>> I'm not aware of any IHDs that replicate the main meter numbers.
>>
>> I doubt there are any that CAN'T?
>>
> My IHD cannot display my main meter readings at all.
> It doesn't display gas standing charge
e.on, they set all the rates to £0.00
> It doesn't display export power
Clive Page
Dec 11, 2023, 12:59:36 PM12/11/23
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On 10/12/2023 23:58, Davey wrote:
> According to another post, you should be able to get it replaced free of
> charge. As I have stated, a failure of the IHD is a device failure,
> simple.
It's a pity that you didn't read my post at the start of this thread. I've had the IHD replaced 3 times and checked even more often, on EDF's mistaken belief (apparently shared by you) that when they fail to display the right information that's the only thing that can go wrong. But now, after nearly 6 months, EDF have accepted that it is the communications module in the electricity meter which is not working correctly - in the industry jargon it is the HAN (Home Area Network). The Energy Ombudsman has agreed with EDF that it is this unit that has failed but said that having tried to repair it once that is all they need to do.
> According to another post, you should be able to get it replaced free of
> charge. As I have stated, a failure of the IHD is a device failure,
> simple.
According to news reports there around 4 million smart meters which don't work. What proportion of these are due to the failure of the HAN rather than the IHD nobody knows.
--
Clive Page
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